The most-listened to podcast by women, Alex Cooper’s Call Her Daddy has been creating conversation since 2018. From deep, honest discussions to laugh-out-loud moments, Cooper cuts through the BS with exciting guests and bold topics. New episodes drop every Wednesday, with throwback episodes every Friday. Want more? Join the Daddy Gang @callherdaddy.
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00:00What is up, Daddy Gang? It is your founding father, Alex Cooper, with Call Her Daddy.
00:11Jane Fonda, welcome to Call Her Daddy.
00:14Thank you very much. I'm happy to be here.
00:16I'm so happy that you're here.
00:19Daddy Gang, Jane is a two-time Academy Award-winning actress,
00:23and her meaningful work in activism has spanned decades.
00:27And Jane, I am completely honored to be sitting across from you today.
00:32Thank you very much.
00:33Truly, truly.
00:34I need you to know that Grace and Frankie has been my comfort show for the past few years.
00:42I'm obsessed. It's charming. It's hilarious.
00:45And you are good friends with your co-star, Lily Tomlin.
00:49You guys have been friends for almost 40-some years.
00:52Yes.
00:53Can you give some advice on how to maintain friendships,
00:58even if someone is going through, let's say, a situation that's very different from their friend
01:03and they're not completely on the same page?
01:05It's like, how are we maintaining friendships?
01:07That's a good question, especially as you get older and your life gets busy and everything.
01:13If you want to maintain a friendship, you have to be intentional.
01:16You really have to work at it.
01:18You know, for example, last night I had dinner with a young Canadian film director, TV director.
01:26She directed a couple of Grace and Frankie episodes.
01:30And when she finished her last episode on Grace and Frankie, we said,
01:33let's maintain our friendship.
01:36Let's work at it.
01:37Let's be intentional.
01:39Yeah, I agree with that.
01:40I do think there's something about it's hard sometimes if one person's putting in more work
01:46than the other.
01:48And maybe I think sometimes we get confused if that means it's for a lack of trying on the
01:53other person's side.
01:54But I don't know if you've had this experience, but sometimes it really just means that person's
01:58going through something.
02:00And sometimes it has to be uneven.
02:01Sometimes one person's going to put in a little bit more work.
02:04Sometimes the other friend's going to put in more work.
02:06Well, that's the case with my friendship with Sally Fields.
02:10Sally, you wouldn't know this in real life, but she tends to be a bit reclusive.
02:17She's not one to really want to go out a lot.
02:20So, you know, especially when I lived in Atlanta, I would have to really coax her out to come to
02:29dinner with me or get together or whatever.
02:32You know, but see, I understand her.
02:37I know that's how she is.
02:39I don't take it personally, but I go after her.
02:43I love it.
02:44Yeah.
02:44I think that's a great lesson, too, of like there's different personalities in friendships.
02:49And if you can be the one that's going at your friend more and you know their personality,
02:54you're not taking it to heart of like they don't want to hang out with me.
02:57Hopefully they'd let you know if they don't want to hang out with you.
02:59But sometimes you just have to go with personality and lean in.
03:03So you're the one that's going after your friends.
03:05I love that.
03:06Call Her Daddy is brought to you by Credit Karma powered by TurboTax.
03:11I remember when I got my first job and I had absolutely no idea how to file my taxes.
03:17I actually didn't even really understand what taxes were in hindsight now that I think about it.
03:21Anyways, do you guys remember those traumatic days in middle school where your dad would try
03:25to help you with your math homework and you would be sitting there crying at the kitchen table?
03:29I think that's like a really core memory, maybe just for me because I was like really bad in math
03:35or maybe for all of us, regardless.
03:37Unfortunately, that was also me the first time that I tried to do my own taxes.
03:41Mental breakdown, not OK.
03:43Literally so upset.
03:44I remember being so embarrassed about the fact that I had to drive home to my parents' house
03:49while I was living in New York City to have my dad tell me what a W-2 was.
03:54And it was it was hard.
03:56It was hard.
03:56I couldn't find all my forms.
03:58I had no clue what I needed.
03:59I didn't understand what a 401k was.
04:01I obviously hadn't signed up.
04:02Like there was a lot going on.
04:03I felt overwhelmed.
04:05And that is OK because no one had taught me, right?
04:08This is why having everything in one place makes it so much easier and makes such a difference.
04:13Credit Karma has always been the app to help manage your finances.
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04:32go further.
04:34Daddy gang, I know how confusing and stressful money can be.
04:36It is like somehow we're just made to feel like, oh, if you don't get it, then you don't
04:40get it.
04:41And it's like, no, no, no.
04:42Having a clearer, more complete picture of your money with Credit Karma goes such
04:47a long way and making things feel more manageable so that you can hit your goals, right?
04:52Start your taxes now in Credit Karma.
04:55You got this, daddy gang.
04:57What was the hardest challenge that you personally faced that a friendship helped you through?
05:05You know, I'm hesitating because most of the hardships that I've gone through in my life
05:10happened earlier in my life, and earlier in my life, I never reached out for help.
05:17I considered it a big weakness.
05:20I wanted to be like a guy, you know.
05:22I just, I don't need anybody kind of thing.
05:25But I remember I had my first hip replacement surgery.
05:29I was living in Atlanta, and it didn't go well.
05:33And I was in real pain and kind of hazy from anesthetics and stuff like that.
05:39And I felt somebody at my feet.
05:41It felt really good.
05:43And I looked down in my darkened bedroom, and it was Eve Ensler, the playwright, Vagina Monologues,
05:49who's my friend and who had flown down from New York to massage my feet and make me feel
05:55better.
05:55I said, why are you here?
06:00And she said, because I love you.
06:02You know, we have to do that for our friends.
06:05But she's, you know, she's really extraordinary, a very generous, giving person.
06:09And I was just beginning to learn to accept help and comfort.
06:15I appreciate you sharing that.
06:16I think that's very relatable.
06:18Sometimes, I think especially being women, there's been a narrative that we're emotional
06:23and we can't handle it.
06:24So sometimes you try to combat that with coming off as strong, when really the way that we
06:31survive is through human connection.
06:34And so I'm wondering if there was ever a turning point that you remember being like, I'm not
06:39ashamed now to ask for help, or did that just come through life experience?
06:43It was a gradual process.
06:44I'm 85 now.
06:45And I would say that it began to happen in my 40s.
06:52You see, earlier in my life, and I'm talking 30s, 40s, 50s, 60s, the mark of maturity was
07:02independence.
07:04I don't need anybody.
07:05I'm grown up now.
07:07There was no recognition of interdependence.
07:13And of course, that was especially true for men.
07:15So if you were a woman who identified with men, I don't want to be like a woman.
07:21I want to be strong.
07:22I want to be a winner, you know, like my dad.
07:25That became my motto, I'm going to grow up and be an independent, and I don't need anybody
07:32kind of a person.
07:35And that was part of the culture, but that began to change.
07:38So my change also corresponded to a broader societal change, which I'm afraid is kind
07:48of going back to the way it used to be, rugged individualism.
07:52You know, I'm only going to think about me and my family.
07:56And this is a time, if ever there was one, where we have to understand we have to work
08:00together and that we are interdependent.
08:03Yeah, I agree with you.
08:05I think it's interesting.
08:06I feel like we kind of saw that with the recent overturn of Roe v. Wade and then everything
08:10that happened with the elections.
08:13I felt as though we were all, we've all recently been made to feel like we have no choice.
08:21This is how it is.
08:22But if we all gather together as a collective, go vote, and then look what can happen.
08:26So it is kind of like a mind game that the systems play with us.
08:31But if we unite, there's nothing stronger.
08:34That's right.
08:35You know, I mentioned you have two Academy Awards.
08:38But in reading your bios, it's so fascinating because the word activist often precedes the
08:45word actor.
08:46And I'm curious, when and why did you begin speaking out about causes that you believe
08:53in?
08:53I was not an activist at all until I met soldiers who'd been fighting in Vietnam who opened my
09:01eyes to what the Vietnam War really was.
09:06And I was just, I was, I was horrified.
09:10I couldn't believe it.
09:12I really grew up believing, boy, if our flag is flying, if our troops are fighting, we're
09:17on the side of the angels.
09:18And so when I heard from soldiers, what was really happening, I, I just felt so betrayed
09:29and everything in my life changed.
09:33I worked with active duty soldiers and sailors and Marines.
09:36Which is so admirable because I, no matter, obviously you're well known, right?
09:42And you were a famous actress at the time.
09:45But in order to speak on something that everyone loves to put women in boxes, like, no, you're
09:50the pretty actress stay over there.
09:51Like, how did you find it within yourself to speak out on something that could be considered
09:57controversial?
09:59I didn't even think about that.
10:00I just, what I heard, and they gave me a book to read that just absolutely transformed
10:09me.
10:10And it, you know, it was my heart that was opened up.
10:16And everything I believed was shattered.
10:20And so I had to look for new realities.
10:22I wasn't even thinking about it's controversial.
10:25It could affect my career.
10:26I don't, all I knew was this is really wrong.
10:28And there are a lot of people in my country that are standing up and trying to do something
10:34about it.
10:35I want to be with them.
10:37I don't want anymore to be a hedonistic, uninvolved.
10:42And I was not happy.
10:44You know, I was, it was like, why am I here?
10:46People need to understand why they're on earth.
10:49Why are, why am I alive?
10:51What am I supposed to do with this wonderful, fragile life I have?
10:56And, and so it was a great turning for me.
11:01I went from not very happy, meaningless, aimless woman to somebody who knew why I was on earth
11:08and what I was going to do.
11:10I really, I mean, I have such respect for you and I obviously not that what I was trying
11:17to do is comparable, but I have started this show when I was talking about sex and relationships.
11:22And I was kind of telling you before, like it was really an attempt to have a conversation
11:26that historically men have been able to have.
11:29There's no repercussions when they talk about sex and relationships.
11:32If anything, it's glamorized.
11:35But when a woman has the same exact conversation, there's name calling and there's judgment.
11:41And so when Roe v. Wade was overturned, I ended up doing a docu-series for my podcast where
11:47I flew to Charlotte, North Carolina.
11:49And I met with these women that were running a preferred women's health center and was helping
11:56women get abortions.
11:57And watching firsthand all the women coming from the South because the abortion desert, that
12:04was like the first location they could go to.
12:06I was really nervous to put out the episode, honestly, because I had never gotten my toes
12:11in the political water, which to me, I was like, this isn't, I mean, it is political, but
12:15it's also just human rights.
12:16And I was really nervous, but I feel like people like you have allowed someone like me to feel
12:23like, you know what?
12:24I have to take a chance with my career that may backfire.
12:28But then what am I doing this for?
12:31I have so many young women listening.
12:33And I just felt like you're such a great example.
12:36I just, I have chills just being in the same room with you because you have carved such a
12:41path for someone like me to be able to sit here and to take a chance like that.
12:45You know, thank you very much.
12:48Of course.
12:48The thing that was unusual or is unusual about my activism is that I didn't just give money.
12:56I was on the ground, whether it was with outside military bases, with soldiers, on reservations,
13:04with tribes, indigenous tribes.
13:09I was there on the ground.
13:11And my celebrity would sometimes, it would create a distance between me and the people
13:18that I was working with.
13:19For example, the first time I was ever arrested, I was marching with tribes up in the Seattle
13:27region of Washington State who were claiming Fort Lawton as a cultural center, an indigenous
13:35cultural center.
13:36And we climbed over a wall and went on to the fort and we were all arrested.
13:41They were beaten.
13:42I wasn't.
13:45There was a young woman who had her young child in her arms and she said, well, you have a
13:50young daughter.
13:51Where's your daughter?
13:53My daughter was at home with a governess.
13:57It made me more and more uncomfortable, my celebrity and my privilege separating me from
14:04the people I wanted to work with.
14:05And I had a friend in Detroit.
14:06He was the founder of an organization called Revolutionary Black Lawyers.
14:13His name was Ken Cockrell.
14:14And I said, Ken, I think I'm going to quit being an actor and become a full-time organizer.
14:19And he said, Fonda, don't you dare.
14:22He said, the movement has many organizers.
14:26We don't have movie stars.
14:28The movement needs you.
14:31Not only should you not quit, take your career seriously.
14:35Be more intentional about what you do.
14:37Make your movies reflect your values.
14:40Stick with that.
14:43So I did.
14:44I began to, you know, I made coming, produced Coming Home and 9 to 5 and a number of films.
14:50It's interesting to hear you grappling with the dichotomy of Jane Fonda, the movie star,
14:57and Jane Fonda, the person that wants to be on the ground helping people.
15:00And I think that what you just said is actually relatable in a different way for people of like,
15:06use whatever privilege you have and maximize on that rather than trying to pretend it's not there
15:14or wanting it to not be there, use it.
15:16Because you're right.
15:17People are going to listen to you.
15:18It's really admirable how you were able to pivot your mindset of like,
15:23Well, I got good advice.
15:24You're like, it wasn't my idea.
15:26I was going to ask, like, before your work in activism,
15:30what was a belief you held that you eventually learned went against feminism?
15:41Oh, to do whatever will please the man that I'm with.
15:48Even if it's to spite my own well-being.
15:52I would fall in love.
15:59What's wrong with that sentence?
16:00Fall.
16:03No, to have a good relationship, an authentic relationship,
16:07both people have to be standing on their feet and meet as full human beings.
16:15But, you know, it took me into my 60s to know that.
16:18You were often cast as the girl next door.
16:23I'm interested to know, like, did you feel like the girl next door?
16:27Like, how did that role affect how you viewed yourself?
16:31I was miserable.
16:32I didn't enjoy it.
16:33I kept wanting to quit.
16:36I never felt like the girl next door,
16:38but I know that I kind of looked like the girl next door.
16:41But also, I was suffering with an eating disorder.
16:43And, you know, I mentioned that because you mentioned that you have young women
16:48are your audience.
16:50So, you know, this continues to be a problem with young women.
16:53I was bulimic, anorexic.
16:56And so, you know, to suddenly I'm becoming a starlet.
17:02And there's so much emphasis on how you look.
17:06And it was a trigger, constant, constant trigger for me.
17:10Yeah, there's already such an objectification on women everywhere about their looks.
17:15But for your job to be specifically predicated on your looks,
17:19it's a recipe for disaster, especially for your mental health,
17:23which back then mental health wasn't even a word that people used, right?
17:28You grew up in Los Angeles and your father was a famous actor.
17:32How did your father and your relationship with him affect who you are now?
17:38Well, I've overcome the effects that it had on me.
17:42I've worked most of my life to overcome the judgmental,
17:47the objectification and judgmentalism
17:50and the unconsciously making me feel that I'm not lovable,
17:55you know, if I'm not really thin, things like that.
17:58It was a generational problem for a lot of men my father's age,
18:02the objectification of women.
18:05And it took me a long time to get over that.
18:10Yeah, I would say so having it from your father,
18:12that must have been difficult to feel objectified
18:15when really all you want is love and support.
18:17Right.
18:18Do you think that your relationship with your father
18:22influenced your then romantic relationships?
18:25Oh, sure.
18:26I was determined that I was going to marry somebody
18:34that was the opposite of my father.
18:36I married three times.
18:38On the surface, they all looked the opposite of my father.
18:42But where it mattered, the ability to become intimate, really.
18:48What does that mean, intimate?
18:50It means this is who I really am authentically,
18:53warts and all, I'm going to be authentic with you.
19:00And I think that I chose men who weren't that way
19:05and weren't going to demand that of me.
19:07And I think that's because of my father, you know,
19:10and my relationship with him.
19:14Yeah.
19:14Do you see, if you look back,
19:18do you see like patterns in your romantic relationships?
19:22I mean, I stayed in them all longer than I should have.
19:27Relatable.
19:27Uh-huh.
19:28That's very.
19:29You know, didn't have the guts to.
19:33Yeah.
19:33Also, not really talking things out enough.
19:38You know, if you have issues on the level of relationships,
19:44they're going to keep playing themselves out.
19:46Yeah.
19:47Isn't that so interesting?
19:47I feel like I, I mean, I, I know I have more to go,
19:51but like the relationships I've had in my past,
19:54I feel like because I wasn't fully formed as an individual
19:57and knew what I really wanted,
19:58I was looking for it in men.
20:02And the pattern kept arising that the relationships were pretty toxic,
20:06that I eventually worked on myself.
20:11And then I'm now in one that's not unhealthy,
20:13but it took me like taking responsibility for myself to be like,
20:17I got to wake up at some point or it's just going to keep happening.
20:20Like, we don't need to say the definition of insanity, Jane,
20:23but like, you know what I mean?
20:24Like you, you, all of a sudden you got to wake up one day and be like,
20:27huh, if this keeps happening, I have to look at yourself.
20:32How old are you?
20:33I'm 28.
20:34Holy mother, God, you're a genius.
20:40What?
20:4128.
20:42I wasn't even thinking about these things.
20:44Oh my Lord.
20:46You're, you're so much more involved than me.
20:49I wish.
20:50I didn't start to get it till I was in my sixties.
20:53And even then, I mean,
20:54talk about stumbling and falling on your face.
20:57But I, but don't you feel like,
20:59which I'm grateful for is it's because of the generation after generation,
21:03we all learn and we pick off of what we want.
21:06If you're smart, if you're resilient, you're that, that, you know,
21:10you are then a resilient person.
21:13You, you can,
21:14you can pick up on what's going on and you can,
21:17you can metabolize that and not everybody can do that.
21:20But even like you, like it,
21:22don't you feel like it would be impossible for you to be where I'm at right
21:25now?
21:25Because you had, your father had different values.
21:28Like all,
21:29like my parents had parents that had such a different generation and view.
21:32And so it's like the trickle down effect of,
21:34it gets a little better each time where your generation pushed against your
21:38parents' generation.
21:39And now I'm pushing against my parents' generation.
21:42So we're all kind of helping each other.
21:44It's taking a little bit longer than we want,
21:46but like it's, it's happening.
21:48It's happening.
21:49Well,
21:49you're like a supercharged.
21:51My God,
21:52you're going to,
21:53you're going to be president.
21:54I'm going to start crying because coming from you,
21:56I just stopped.
21:5720.
21:58Hey,
21:58I mean,
21:58you look,
21:59it's not that you look older,
22:01but you're so evolved for 20 fucking eight.
22:04Oh my God.
22:06I did listen.
22:07I think a lot of my listeners,
22:08yeah,
22:08I said are in their twenties.
22:10What advice would you give them in trying to figure out what they believe in
22:17and what causes they care about?
22:19Yeah.
22:19Yeah.
22:20It's hard.
22:21Well,
22:21yeah.
22:22One thing that I,
22:23I always want to say to young people,
22:25it is so hard to be young.
22:28Don't let anybody fool you.
22:30It is.
22:31It gets easier when you get older,
22:33believe it or not.
22:34I mean,
22:34assuming a modicum of good health,
22:37but it's really young.
22:39It's really hard to be young.
22:41It's,
22:41it's like,
22:42who,
22:43what am I supposed to do?
22:44Who am I supposed to know?
22:45What am I supposed to become?
22:47What am I supposed to be interested in?
22:48All these huge questions that will determine the whole rest of your life.
22:53As you get older,
22:54it's like,
22:55I know what I need.
22:57I know what I can let go of.
22:59I've been there before.
23:00It didn't kill me.
23:01I'm going to survive.
23:02You know,
23:02it's,
23:03you know,
23:03you,
23:04you don't make mountains out of molehills and it's just,
23:07it's just easier.
23:09So,
23:10well,
23:13I mean,
23:13it seems to me that young people should care about,
23:16is there going to be a future that is going to be livable?
23:22Or are we going to go to,
23:23you know,
23:23from one climate extreme that is life threatening,
23:28even to people who are wealthy and privileged,
23:31although it's going to hit the unprivileged and not white people worse.
23:38It's your future that's at stake.
23:39There is a climate crisis and,
23:42and the window to do something about it is closing.
23:46We don't have,
23:46we have,
23:48don't have a lot of time,
23:49but there's ample reason to remain hopeful.
23:54The scientists who all agree that there's a crisis and that it's caused by fossil fuels
23:59and that people have to act,
24:02they're unanimous.
24:03And they're telling us time is running out,
24:07but you still have time to,
24:08to reverse this and do something about it.
24:10So the first,
24:11I would advise young people just to find out about the climate crisis.
24:16And then I'm sure that you want to do something about it.
24:20And that means not individually,
24:23you know,
24:23you,
24:24I mean,
24:24it's good to do individual things because it makes you feel good and makes you feel like that you're not a hypocrite,
24:30but it's,
24:31we have to change systems.
24:34We have to change who we elect to government.
24:38We have people in the government that are Democrats as well as Republicans who take money from the fossil fuel industry and vote against bills that can save your lives in the future.
24:49So we have to get rid of those people most,
24:52and they're not all guys,
24:53but they're mostly guys and they're mostly white.
24:56Yeah.
24:57So we have to pay attention to who we vote for.
24:59We have to vote.
25:01But become familiar with the climate crisis and join with others in some organization to do something about it in your town,
25:11in your city,
25:11in your school,
25:13in your university.
25:16There's all different levels that you can work on.
25:20And I think that it feels good.
25:24And the young people that I've met doing this kind of work are so wonderful.
25:28You'll make new friends.
25:30I appreciate you sharing so much about,
25:32you know,
25:33you being like,
25:34oh,
25:34in my 60s,
25:35I figured it out.
25:36Like when people look at Jane Fonda,
25:38it's like,
25:39this is who I want to be.
25:40Like,
25:40I aspire to have such intellect and grace and drive.
25:45Well,
25:46man,
25:46I have worked at it for 50 years.
25:50And I think that's why I really respect you being open about that,
25:54because I'm interested to know,
25:55like,
25:55young women in their 20s right now that are listening.
25:58What is the biggest lesson you learned in your 20s?
26:02And how did you learn it?
26:03Oh,
26:04in my 20s,
26:04I was starting to be a movie actor.
26:08I suffered from bulimia very,
26:10very bad.
26:13I,
26:13um,
26:13I leave,
26:15I led a secret life.
26:17I was very,
26:18very unhappy.
26:19I assumed I wouldn't live past 30.
26:22I'm 85.
26:24I don't understand.
26:26Well,
26:26I do.
26:27I,
26:27I worked hard.
26:28I,
26:29uh,
26:30I didn't go out.
26:31I didn't hardly date.
26:33I hardly,
26:33because I was,
26:34I was unhappy.
26:35And I had this eating disorder.
26:37And,
26:38um,
26:39and then I was also making movies that I didn't very much like.
26:43And then the Vietnam war got me and changed my life.
26:48When you say you were living a secret life,
26:50are you talking about the eating disorder?
26:53Hmm.
26:54Yes.
26:55Do you mind just sharing a little bit of insight of anything you have for,
27:00I know so many women write into me that struggle with an eating disorder and how you personally
27:06overcame that?
27:07Well,
27:07first of all,
27:08you've got to understand it seems so innocent in the beginning.
27:12So innocuous.
27:14Why can't I have this ice cream and cake?
27:16And then I'll,
27:17I'll just throw it up.
27:19What you don't realize is it becomes a terrible addiction.
27:26That takes over your life.
27:29And it,
27:31it harms the way you look.
27:33You end up looking tired.
27:35It becomes impossible to have an authentic relationship when you're doing this secretly.
27:43Um,
27:44your day becomes organized around getting food and,
27:48and then eating it,
27:50um,
27:50which requires that you're by yourself and that no one knows what you're doing.
27:56Um,
27:57it's a very lonely thing.
27:59And,
27:59and you're,
27:59and you're addicted.
28:00I mean,
28:01you can't,
28:02if you put any food in you,
28:04you,
28:04you want to get rid of it.
28:05And,
28:06and it happens when your life is inauthentic,
28:11when,
28:12what you should be doing and who you should be or who you really are,
28:17those things are being betrayed.
28:18you know,
28:21in a,
28:21maybe a false relationship or where you're faking it,
28:26you,
28:26you know,
28:26you know that it's wrong,
28:28but you keep going,
28:29that kind of thing.
28:31Inauthenticity can,
28:32can,
28:32can cause it.
28:34Um,
28:34also being told that you're fat and,
28:38and,
28:38um,
28:38it can start with that,
28:40but then it takes over your life.
28:42And,
28:43so as I got older,
28:47you know,
28:47you can,
28:48you can think you can get away with it when you're young because your body is so young.
28:54As you get older,
28:55the toll that it takes on you,
28:58it becomes worse and worse.
29:00It takes days and then at least a week to get over one single binge.
29:06And it's not just the fatigue.
29:09It's,
29:10you become angry,
29:11you become hostile.
29:12All the trouble that I got in was because of that anger and that hostility.
29:17And then it got to a point in my forties when I just thought,
29:21I'm like,
29:22if,
29:22if I keep on like this,
29:24I'm going to die.
29:25I certainly will not.
29:27I was living a very full life.
29:29I had children.
29:30I had a husband.
29:31I,
29:31I'd had two husbands by then.
29:33I was doing political work.
29:35I was doing all these things.
29:37And my life was important.
29:39But I was becoming less and less able to continue it.
29:43So I went cold.
29:45I didn't realize that there were groups that you could join.
29:48I didn't know anything about that yet.
29:50And nobody talked about it.
29:52I didn't even know there was a word for it.
29:55And so I just went cold turkey.
29:56And it was really hard.
29:59But the fact is that the more distance you can put between you and the last binge,
30:06then the better it is.
30:07It becomes easier and easier.
30:09Now they say you can never get cured.
30:12That's not true.
30:12But I did need Prozac.
30:16That was my,
30:17the drug that helped me.
30:19Because a lot of the cause of it was anxiety driven.
30:23And Prozac helped me deal with anxiety.
30:27And so,
30:27and then gradually,
30:28I just stopped doing it.
30:30Thank you for sharing that.
30:33Because I'm interested to know like,
30:36the effects that social media,
30:38every generation has right,
30:40like the way that women were objectified.
30:42In the 90s,
30:42it's the glossy magazines.
30:44Then the tabloids.
30:45Now social media,
30:46it's like,
30:47we're exacerbating it again almost.
30:49Like when you see what's the impact for young women with what's happening on social media,
30:54how does that make you feel?
30:55I'm scared for them.
30:57It's much,
30:57much worse.
30:58There was no social media when I was younger.
31:03I think it makes it much worse.
31:05And it's really hard.
31:06And I don't know what the cure is.
31:08It's bigger than I can.
31:10If someone's going to fix it,
31:12it could be Jane Fonda though.
31:14I'm curious,
31:15what advice can you give to women?
31:19Around distancing themselves from the pressures to look,
31:25feel and act a certain way.
31:29Because we have a vagina.
31:39I think the old consciousness raising group is good.
31:45We can't do it by ourselves as individuals.
31:48I think getting together with other young people,
31:55whoever is listening,
31:57whatever age you are,
31:58you may not be young,
31:59but with other females,
32:02to talk about it.
32:06And when you recognize the shared challenge that you're all facing,
32:11it helps to say,
32:13well,
32:13fuck this.
32:14I'm not going to do this anymore.
32:15And then you start to become a feminist.
32:22But yeah,
32:23I think talking about it is good.
32:26Knowing that you're not alone,
32:28and that you can work up courage by dealing with it together as a group.
32:35I'm going to teach you a little history.
32:37In the 1970s,
32:40a huge change happened to psychology,
32:44to psychologists and therapists.
32:46The thinking in psychology was that
32:49what Freud said was incest against women
32:57is maybe one in a million.
33:01It's a fantasy that women have for various reasons,
33:04but it's one in a million.
33:06Freud,
33:07one in a million.
33:08And that was the thinking coming into the 70s.
33:12So these feminist therapists began to meet regularly
33:15in various places in New England.
33:17And they began to talk about the experiences
33:22that they were having with their clients.
33:25And one said,
33:27you know,
33:28she was incested.
33:31And another would say,
33:32I have a client that was incested.
33:37And they started to discover
33:38that this was not one in a million.
33:42This was like epidemic.
33:44What is going on here?
33:46They began to reach out to other therapists
33:50around the country who began to meet.
33:52And they all found out,
33:53they discovered that this is extremely common.
33:58And the kind of therapy that they developed
34:04was very different than Freud,
34:05where you lie on your back
34:07and look at the ceiling
34:08while the Freudian therapist sits behind you.
34:11These women created relational therapy
34:16and it's like,
34:17it's the difference between men's friendship
34:19and women's friendship.
34:20Men sit side by side.
34:23Women sit facing each other
34:24and relate emotionally.
34:28So therapists would be able
34:29to look into their clients' eyes,
34:31would cry with them,
34:33would show empathy and emotion with them.
34:37And the women began to heal.
34:39They discovered that it's what happens
34:42when you're abused,
34:43especially incested,
34:45is your ability to trust and relate
34:48is ruptured.
34:50And recreating trust
34:52and the ability to relate
34:53through relational therapy
34:55could help heal these women.
34:59And so again,
35:00the reason I told that story
35:02was because it's such a great,
35:04when you get together in groups,
35:06you learn new things
35:08and it changes everything.
35:10You're in a new movie,
35:1180 for Brady.
35:13The movie is centered
35:14around a friend group of four women.
35:17Yeah.
35:17What similarities did the women in the movie
35:21have to your real life friend group?
35:25Well, two of them are
35:26my real life friend group,
35:28Sally and Lily.
35:29I mean, Sally and I identify
35:31with each other quite a lot
35:32and we talk a lot.
35:34We get down
35:35and we talk about
35:36these kinds of things
35:37and I've always identified with her.
35:40You know, we're quite,
35:42in many ways, very close.
35:44Lily is a completely different person from me
35:47and I'm fascinated by her,
35:49absolutely fascinated.
35:51We'll be sitting side by side
35:52and someone will come up
35:53and say something serious
35:55and Lily will find a way to respond
35:58that is a laugh.
36:00I mean, she's just,
36:02I can't do that.
36:04I'm just in awe of it.
36:05Is it fun to work with your friend?
36:07Yeah, very much.
36:09Right.
36:09That's why I keep doing it.
36:10Yeah, yeah.
36:11I mean, you guys are...
36:12We've made two movies
36:13since we stopped Grace and Frankie.
36:15It's like you guys
36:16can't get away from each other
36:17but let me be clear,
36:18we don't want you guys
36:19to get away from each other
36:20because you're magnetic on screen.
36:22It's amazing.
36:23What is the most rewarding benefit
36:26of having a strong group
36:29of girlfriends?
36:31Your health.
36:33You know, there was a study
36:34done by Harvard Medical School
36:36that said that
36:36not having women friends
36:38is as bad for your health
36:39as smoking
36:40and
36:42you know,
36:47men sit side by side
36:48looking outward
36:49at cars,
36:51at women.
36:52Oh wow, look at that one.
36:53Sports.
36:56Women look into each other's eyes
36:59and they ask for help.
37:03They show their vulnerability.
37:06That's so important.
37:09That's important for health.
37:11I think it's one reason
37:12why women on average
37:13live five years,
37:14seven years longer
37:15than men do.
37:16Also, when women laugh,
37:18I don't know about you
37:19but when I'm with my women friends
37:21and we laugh,
37:22I mean, you gotta crush your legs.
37:25Yeah.
37:26It's, it's,
37:27it comes from the belly.
37:28I don't laugh like that
37:30with men
37:30and I know that there are men
37:31that I could
37:32but I've never,
37:33I've never,
37:33they haven't come my way.
37:35There's a lot of women
37:36that always read into me
37:37asking, you know,
37:37like, I'm in a new relationship
37:39and I have a boyfriend
37:40and I feel like I'm distancing myself
37:42from my girlfriends
37:43and I love you comparing it
37:45to it's as bad as smoking
37:47if you don't have
37:48your girlfriends around you
37:49because it is
37:50a different dynamic.
37:51It's a real problem
37:52to,
37:53but it's one
37:54that I've been guilty of.
37:55Yeah.
37:55When you fall in love
37:57and everything is so intense
37:58that you,
37:59you don't have time
38:00for your girlfriends anymore
38:02but what that does,
38:03especially if,
38:04if it's a relationship
38:05that's ongoing
38:06is it accustoms
38:09the guy,
38:10if you're heterosexual,
38:12the guy
38:13to you
38:14not taking time
38:16to be with girlfriends
38:17and like
38:19if this relationship lasts
38:21and you end up
38:22getting married
38:23or staying together,
38:24you're going to want
38:25your girlfriends
38:26but you can't
38:27and then to go
38:28and then you have to
38:30re-educate
38:32your partner
38:33to accept
38:34the presence
38:35of girlfriends.
38:37So,
38:37you know,
38:38make it,
38:38make it a part
38:39of your life
38:39even in the beginning.
38:40Your character
38:42ends up
38:44trying
38:45to ghost
38:46her love interest
38:47and I'm curious
38:49to know,
38:50Jane,
38:50in real life,
38:51have you ever been
38:53ghosted
38:54or are you usually
38:55the one doing
38:56the ghosting,
38:57not answering someone,
38:59being like,
39:00I'm going to ignore them
39:01and disappear
39:02from their life?
39:03Well,
39:04I've mostly been married
39:05three times
39:07or had steady boyfriends
39:10in between.
39:11Up until
39:11a certain later point
39:13in my life,
39:14you know,
39:14I thought
39:15that if I wasn't
39:16with an alpha male
39:17that I,
39:18nobody would be
39:19interested in me.
39:23So,
39:23I married,
39:24I didn't ghost.
39:28That's so iconic.
39:30I married,
39:30I didn't ghost.
39:33And I don't know
39:34if anybody's ghosted me,
39:35I'm sure they have
39:36but I can't,
39:37I don't know
39:37if they have.
39:38I feel like
39:39no one has ever
39:40ghosted you
39:41and now hopefully
39:44if a guy wasn't
39:45treating you right,
39:46you're going to ghost them.
39:47You're not going
39:48to marry them,
39:48right Jane?
39:49Honey,
39:50there's not going
39:50to be if a guy.
39:52I,
39:52you know,
39:53I live in a new house,
39:54well I've been there
39:55for seven years
39:56and when I moved in
39:57like a lot of
39:57California houses,
39:59there was a man's
40:00bathroom
40:01and a woman's bathroom.
40:02I said,
40:03no,
40:03no,
40:03no,
40:03no,
40:04no,
40:04no,
40:04no.
40:04There will never
40:05be a man living
40:06in this house ever.
40:08So they took both
40:09bathrooms for me.
40:10Damn right.
40:11No,
40:11three's enough.
40:12My father was married
40:13five times,
40:14I don't want to go
40:14that way.
40:15Right.
40:16You're going to keep
40:17it at three.
40:17Yeah.
40:18One last question.
40:19What was it like
40:20meeting Tom Brady?
40:21I'm assuming you met him.
40:22My knees got,
40:24started to give away.
40:25I'm not kidding.
40:25He came into my trailer,
40:27holy shit,
40:28and my knees
40:29started to buckle.
40:31I was standing next
40:32to the sink
40:32so I held on.
40:34But,
40:34no,
40:35and that's when
40:35he signed this jersey
40:36that I'm wearing
40:37and gave it to me.
40:38He gave it to everybody
40:39but anyway.
40:42No,
40:42it's,
40:42you know,
40:43it's twofold.
40:44He's a goat.
40:45He's the greatest
40:45of all time.
40:47When somebody
40:48is that good
40:49at what they do,
40:50he's like magic.
40:53You have to bow down
40:55but then on top of it
40:57he's so gorgeous.
40:58You know?
40:59And so,
41:00I was just overwhelmed
41:02and he was so sweet,
41:03very generous,
41:04very nice.
41:06You know,
41:07I view you
41:07as the goat,
41:08Jane.
41:09Okay,
41:09so I truly cannot
41:11thank you enough
41:12for sitting down with me.
41:13I know you're
41:14a very busy woman.
41:15Well,
41:15you are a fantastic
41:16interviewer.
41:17I mean,
41:18I've been at this
41:19for 60 years.
41:20You're one of the best
41:20interviewers I've ever had.
41:22You're really wonderful.
41:24I'm going to faint.
41:25I have to go.
41:26Jane,
41:27no,
41:27thank you so much.
41:27So I'm going to start crying.
41:29You're all so beautiful.
41:30I mean,
41:30I don't know,
41:31does this go,
41:32is this,
41:32is this podcast visual
41:34or audio?
41:35So people know
41:36what you look like.
41:36And people know
41:37what you look like.
41:38I just want your audience
41:39to,
41:39you know,
41:40because sometimes
41:40they're,
41:41you know,
41:41they're only video,
41:42audio.
41:42Right,
41:43so you want to give
41:43a disclaimer.
41:44And so you want to say
41:45to the,
41:45I want you to know,
41:46audience,
41:47she's gorgeous.
41:49Jane,
41:50it was an absolute honor,
41:52pleasure.
41:53You are incredible
41:53and I,
41:54I can't thank you enough
41:55for coming on.
41:57Thanks for having me.
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