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00:00Ella Mills, OG wellness influencer, entrepreneur, cookbook.
00:05author and host of the wellness scoop. Welcome to well enough. Thank you. Thank you.
00:10I'm really excited to talk to you because I mean, I think myself, like everyone else we've been
00:15cooking your recipes for years, eating, you know, I start my day with your bircher muesli.
00:20There's a lot of deliciously Ella stuff in my house. So I have loads and loads of questions for you, but I also
00:25because I'm fascinated by wellness more broadly, I want to ask you about...
00:30your personal experiences. I know that everyone's used to seeing your cookbook.
00:35They've got your food in their kitchens, but what's the experience been like for you? Because...
00:40you brought us wellness, you know, on social media via these cookbooks and wellness...
00:45it now looks very different. So I'd love to ask you about that first experience of starting your blog 14 years ago.
00:50Oh my gosh, you look so different, doesn't it? It's unbelievable. I think...
00:55I remember, yeah, when I clicked publish on my first recipe, so that was spring 2012.
01:00So yes, 14 years ago, I can't believe it. Wellness just wasn't...
01:05kind of something that existed in the ether around us, and it's now a multi-trillion.
01:10dollar industry. I feel when I started, I'm not saying that wellness was...
01:15all positive, but I think it was inherently positive. I think there was this sense that's certainly how I felt.
01:20when I started cooking this way and cooking just simple, natural, plant-rich food and being excited.
01:25about if you roast lentils with soy sauce and chilli, they're really crispy and delicious, sprinkled on it.
01:30in a salad, or, you know, this is a new way to cook sweet potatoes, and then if you simmer black beans...
01:35and coconut milk, and lime juice, and pickled red onions, and loads of garlic, it's delicious, and all the rest of it.
01:40and this excitement to get people eating these foods again, and I think people were, you know,
01:44to remember everyone's taking photos...
01:45they're trainers in the gym with like a Valencia filter on Instagram, you know, hashtag fits...
01:50and I just think there was this excitement of people, you know, women showing themselves in the gym.
01:55and lifting weights, and people saying, oh my gosh, have you ever tried spiralizing your courgettes?
02:00oh my gosh, have you ever tried spiralizing your courgettes?
02:00I remember that, yeah.
02:01you know, using almond butter, or cashew butter, or blending spinach into a...
02:05a smoothie, and it was a kind of, I think what we were excited about, what was making headlines a novelty.
02:10you know, yes, we might all laugh at courgette now, but ultimately it was just really trying to include more.
02:15like, whole food, nutrient rich ingredients in our lives in a more delicious, interesting way.
02:20at this point, the world of wellness is kind of wildly nuanced, it's very dogmatic, lots of people...
02:25shouting at each other from different corners of the internet, having wild arguments...
02:30making vast sums of money from lots of products that do absolutely nothing, and this kind of weird pressure.
02:35that you've got to buy every gadget, gizmo powder going to be healthy.
02:40and I kind of feel like we're letting go of the basics in that.
02:43Absolutely, I mean, I really agree with you.
02:45because a lot of the work that I've been doing at The Independent is really making sure that people understand those basic...
02:50pillars, you know, we talk about sleep, we talk about nutrition, we talk about movement, but as you say...
02:55wellness has maybe become a bit toxic, and that's not to say that we don't love it and that we're not part of it.
03:00but I would imagine for someone like you that's been there since the beginning...
03:05it's maybe been quite difficult to reconcile being part of that industry because also...
03:10you know, we've seen, as you said, people jump down each other's throats over the small...
03:15flawless nuances over the tiniest things.
03:17everyone thinks they're a nutritionist now.
03:19Well, I always...
03:20I think there's this interesting bit, right, like I think, you know, there's so many different nuances out there as you...
03:25you said, but ultimately, you know, we're at a moment where we eat less vegetables or eat...
03:30fewer vegetables than at any time in the last 50 years, you know, over 50% of our...
03:35our calories are coming from ultra processed foods, 80% for one in five of us, about 20...
03:40ish percent of us managing to get our fiber day, 96% of us not getting enough fiber, like...
03:45our foundations when it comes to food, unfortunately, for a multitude of different reasons.
03:50and a really broken food industry means that we're collectively really struggling with...
03:55those basics, like, let's stop over-complicating it for people because otherwise, every single time you open...
04:00your podcast app or Netflix or various different media outlets...
04:05you're going to see everything that contradicts each other and I think it becomes so overwhelming, there's almost a sense of like...
04:10ah, what's the point? And then at the same time, you have all these headlines saying, you know...
04:15the pandemic of chronic diseases called biotrophosis foods and these things are...
04:20really bad for you and I think it's just...
04:22someone who just wants to generally improve their health...
04:25you kind of look at this and you think, what on earth am I meant to do?
04:27this will kill me, that will kill me, this will kill me, the next thing will...
04:30it just becomes kind of a little bit...
04:32mad, really.
04:34I mean, it can be...
04:35it can be quite demotivating, can't it?
04:37Yeah, I think so.
04:38We saw so many different trends, I mean we've got...
04:40loads of trends now, everything's a TikTok trend...
04:42but I remember things like, you know, you were talking about Quargetti...
04:45I remember when Paleo was a really big thing, you know...
04:48is there anything that you think, gosh, wellness...
04:50just got that really, really wrong.
04:51I wouldn't say there was kind of one specific thing that...
04:55that the industry has collectively got wrong.
04:58Suffice to say, I just think there's too much pressure.
05:00in it for people and...
05:02in a moment where the world feels quite overwhelmed.
05:05and, you know, from kind of global events, economic challenges...
05:10kind of AI creeping up on all of us, it just...
05:12the world does feel quite scary and quite uncertain.
05:15and equally, as I said, then you're reading headlines...
05:17about how all your favourite foods are terrible for you and I...
05:20just think, actually, it just needs to feel more approachable...
05:23more inclusive, more straightforward.
05:25more, this is how you eat some more broccoli in a delicious way...
05:28unless you're doing it all wrong.
05:30you're a terrible person, you know...
05:32because I just...
05:33I'm just not sure it's helping and I think that...
05:35that's the bit that I certainly feel...
05:38to your question of kind of where I started to...
05:40to now, is when I look at it, I just...
05:42I don't think the wellness industry is working and I...
05:45as I said, I don't think you can have a multi-trillion dollar industry...
05:48that's growing at that speed...
05:50when we're collectively getting more ill...
05:52and say, the wellness industry is a wild...
05:55I think it's making a lot of money...
05:58I'm not really sure it's making enough...
06:00people more well.
06:02Yeah, I agree with you and I think that's something...
06:04we'd possibly ignore.
06:05the fact that we are...
06:07getting worse in terms of our health but...
06:09yet this money...
06:10is pouring in...
06:12and also, you're right, we live in these sensitive...
06:15strange times and our fear and anxiety is quite heightened...
06:18as this kind of...
06:20incredible figurehead for eating well and...
06:23trying to encourage people to feel...
06:25better in a time where people are possibly not feeling their best...
06:28how is it that you're able to balance...
06:30things too because I know that...
06:32you know, you run a business...
06:33you've got a family to look after...
06:35and this is something that lots of people struggle with...
06:37and I know that you've spoken about feeling burnt out...
06:39and maybe...
06:40taking a step back in the past...
06:42what does that look like for you kind of day to day?
06:44like...
06:45people I've...
06:46found that really...
06:47really difficult and it was actually the inspiration...
06:49behind...
06:50quick wins...
06:50which is my...
06:51my new book because at that point...
06:53um...
06:54the business was...
06:55brilliant in the sense it was growing really fast but...
06:58running any business...
06:59growing any business...
07:00comes with an extraordinary number of problems...
07:02and challenges...
07:03and daily dramas...
07:04and...
07:05and...
07:06I was working kind of 24-7...
07:08and just...
07:09absolutely...
07:10exhausted...
07:11and kind of completely...
07:12burnt out...
07:13and then I had two young children...
07:15and I just ended up so often...
07:17it wasn't necessarily that I didn't have 15 minutes...
07:20so I didn't have 20 minutes to cook...
07:22it's just that I didn't have really the head space...
07:24to think about it...
07:25you know...
07:25when you get to the end of the day...
07:26and you just feel like...
07:27I just want to flop on the sofa...
07:28yeah...
07:29toast...
07:30or take...
07:30away from...
07:31really great options...
07:32there's nothing wrong with toast...
07:33but it's just...
07:34adding things to the toasters...
07:35more beneficial...
07:36um...
07:37and so we started making...
07:38kind of very loose meal plans for myself...
07:40not...
07:41like a kind of really rigid structure...
07:42but I would just then do a shop on the weekend...
07:43and I was like...
07:44right...
07:45this is what we'll...
07:45cook for supper this week...
07:46and I'd get home on a Tuesday...
07:48you know...
07:49pick the kids up from school...
07:50after...
07:50a super flustered day...
07:51and you'd sit down...
07:52you're like...
07:53right...
07:54have all the ingredients...
07:55this will be ready in half an hour...
07:55done...
07:56and it was such a help...
07:57and so I really started to lean into things like that...
08:00it's not kind of...
08:01big flashy things...
08:02that I find helpful...
08:03it's that really simple thing...
08:04like...
08:05making...
08:06such a help...
08:07having a really rough structure...
08:08of what you're gonna...
08:09make...
08:10for me...
08:11it's mostly cooked for supper...
08:12everything else is sort of...
08:13I sort it out...
08:14help so much...
08:15but then...
08:15just little things like...
08:16prep porridge the night before...
08:17you know...
08:18it sounds so...
08:19basic...
08:20but even just...
08:21that is...
08:22helps the mental load so much...
08:23because you come down in the morning...
08:24you know...
08:25I'll do banana...
08:26I'll do frozen berries...
08:27and...
08:28you know...
08:29put almond butter...
08:30or chia seeds etc...
08:30so it's sort of...
08:31pimped out porridge...
08:32for extra nutrients...
08:33and then I literally...
08:34just pop it in a pan...
08:35and it...
08:35can cook...
08:36while I like...
08:37get the kids ready for school...
08:38and things like that...
08:39just...
08:40all of...
08:41it's just those little twi...
08:40things...
08:41they're just such wins...
08:43and it's the same...
08:44you know...
08:45I'll try and get up...
08:4515 minutes before the kids...
08:46I'll try and do...
08:47five minutes of meditation...
08:48or breath work...
08:49it's nothing...
08:50major...
08:51but I just find...
08:52those habits are really...
08:53sustainable for me...
08:54and I think...
08:55earlier on in...
08:57you know...
08:58my interest in health...
08:59and wellness...
09:00I feel like I was much...
09:00more...
09:01right...
09:02I'm gonna go to an hour...
09:03long yoga class...
09:04and I'm gonna do this...
09:05and I'm gonna do that...
09:06I just don't...
09:05I don't have that space...
09:06in my life anymore...
09:07and I think it was realizing...
09:08actually...
09:09you still get so many of the...
09:10the benefits from...
09:1110 minutes online...
09:12for yoga...
09:13or five minutes of breath work...
09:15it's so simple...
09:17but it...
09:18really does help...
09:19and I think for me...
09:20those little habits...
09:20have made...
09:21such a big difference...
09:22for genuinely...
09:23kind of keeping up...
09:24health and...
09:25wellness in my life...
09:26as opposed to...
09:27kind of being...
09:28all in at one point...
09:29and then life...
09:30catches...
09:30you out...
09:31and you're out...
09:32that's kind of...
09:33the premise of this podcast...
09:34as well...
09:35it's about just doing...
09:35enough...
09:36and enough to...
09:37to change your life...
09:38in a way...
09:39that feels sustainable...
09:40because...
09:41so many people...
09:42they will think...
09:43right...
09:44I am all in...
09:45I'm gonna do...
09:46an hour...
09:45every day...
09:46and I'm gonna...
09:47batch cook everything...
09:48for three hours a day...
09:49and that's four hours...
09:50of your day gone...
09:50and if you can't...
09:51do it the next day...
09:52you might feel...
09:53completely demotivated...
09:54and throw it out the window...
09:55which is not what we...
09:55want ultimately...
09:56no...
09:57and I think...
09:58you know...
09:59the kind of...
10:00we often then say...
10:00oh well...
10:01I don't have willpower...
10:02and I'm just thinking...
10:03it's a little bit...
10:04of a misnomer...
10:05ultimately...
10:06kind of...
10:07life...
10:08ebbs...
10:09and it flows...
10:10and it throws challenges...
10:10without us...
10:11and you know...
10:12days unfold...
10:13we don't expect them to...
10:14and so we think...
10:15when you're...
10:15adding in...
10:16kind of gentle habits...
10:17that feel...
10:18like they can...
10:19sort of be...
10:20fluid...
10:21within your life...
10:22and fear...
10:23that feels...
10:24like something...
10:25that can stay with you...
10:25and ultimately...
10:26I feel...
10:27that there's not...
10:28much point...
10:29unless you think...
10:30the habits are gonna...
10:30stay with you...
10:31like...
10:32health isn't...
10:33a six-week...
10:34bikini plan...
10:35health is...
10:35genuinely supporting...
10:36your mind...
10:37your body...
10:38so that you get...
10:39the best from your life...
10:40and the most...
10:40close from your life...
10:41for the decades to come...
10:42and ultimately...
10:43you get that...
10:44by consistency...
10:45like...
10:45eating super well...
10:46this week...
10:47will not do anything...
10:48for your long-term health...
10:50but small things...
10:52every single day...
10:53for decades...
10:54will do enormous...
10:55things for your health...
10:56and I think it's just...
10:57we have this...
10:58complete...
10:59disposition...
11:00as humans...
11:01to really...
11:02overestimate...
11:03what we're gonna achieve...
11:04today...
11:05tomorrow...
11:06next week...
11:05in January...
11:06this year...
11:07and we wildly...
11:08underestimate...
11:09what we're gonna do...
11:10in a year...
11:11or two years...
11:10and I think...
11:11if people are thinking...
11:12over their kind of...
11:13new year...
11:14health goals...
11:15or habits...
11:15there is that temptation...
11:16to say...
11:17I'm never gonna have sugar...
11:18and I'm gonna get up...
11:19at five o'clock...
11:20in the morning...
11:21and run every day...
11:20I'm gonna do this...
11:21I'm gonna do that...
11:22but then...
11:23when you're stressed...
11:24when you're overwhelmed...
11:25when you're tired...
11:25those things...
11:26just don't feel...
11:27very plausible...
11:28whereas...
11:29if what you've said is...
11:30okay...
11:31you know what...
11:30I don't eat enough fiber...
11:31I don't get my fiber day...
11:32or I don't exercise enough...
11:34or I'm really struggling...
11:35with my stress...
11:36and you start putting in...
11:37little things for that...
11:38so like...
11:39I'm just gonna try and eat...
11:40one extra portion of plants...
11:41every day this week...
11:42might be raspberries...
11:43in your porridge...
11:44like...
11:45it might be a veg...
11:46you don't normally cook...
11:47added into a curry...
11:48that's on repeat...
11:49in your house...
11:50you could be making...
11:51your classic bolognese...
11:52and adding...
11:53a little bit of lentils to it...
11:54like...
11:55it's so simple...
11:55it's so easy...
11:56but if you keep doing that...
11:58that really will add up...
11:59it's that idea of...
12:001% closer to your goal...
12:01every day...
12:02it sounds like nothing...
12:03but over a year...
12:04you've kind of gone...
12:05absolutely miles...
12:06and I just think...
12:07that's such an important...
12:08shift...
12:09and to me...
12:10that's...
12:10what true wellness is...
12:11it is a long-term approach...
12:13on your genuine health span...
12:14as opposed to...
12:15to like...
12:16yeah...
12:16a shortcut...
12:17I mean...
12:18I think that's brilliant advice...
12:19for the new year...
12:20because...
12:20it is tiny...
12:21tiny habits...
12:22but it's also...
12:23giving yourself the grace...
12:24to...
12:25you know...
12:25make a plan...
12:26support yourself...
12:27I really liked in the book...
12:28when I was flicking through...
12:29that you had shopping lists...
12:30in the back...
12:30and you had example...
12:31meal plans in the back...
12:32because it's all very well...
12:33kind of saying to someone...
12:34why not cook...
12:35cook this...
12:36but they might not prep...
12:37for...
12:38you know...
12:39the other six nights...
12:40of the week...
12:41I know...
12:42and then you...
12:40you get home...
12:41and you're like...
12:42oh...
12:43I just don't have the energy...
12:44whereas if you said...
12:45oh...
12:46I'm gonna make this tray big...
12:47I need...
12:45to buy some...
12:46orzone...
12:47or broccoli...
12:48on the way home...
12:49easy...
12:50you know...
12:50that feels really...
12:51suddenly...
12:52when you break it down...
12:53like that...
12:54it feels really plausible...
12:55so I would say...
12:56if you're kind of...
12:57thinking about...
12:55habit change...
12:56if you...
12:57ask yourself...
12:58like...
12:58is this habit...
12:59that I say...
13:00I'm gonna...
13:00do...
13:01in 2026...
13:02something I can imagine...
13:03myself doing...
13:04not necessarily...
13:05every day...
13:05but...
13:06daily-ish...
13:07or weekly...
13:08for the next 10 years...
13:09then...
13:10really go for it...
13:10and if the answer is like...
13:11oh my goodness...
13:12me no...
13:13like...
13:14absolutely...
13:15no chance...
13:15then...
13:16I wouldn't bother...
13:17I hope that you're enjoying...
13:18this episode with Ella...
13:19if you are...
13:20please...
13:20subscribe to the channel...
13:21and like this video...
13:22it helps us out so much...
13:23now...
13:24let's crack on with the episode...
13:25I was actually really shocked...
13:27by that stat that said...
13:28we're eating...
13:29few plants...
13:30since 50 years ago...
13:30than any time...
13:31in the last 50 years...
13:32any time...
13:33yeah...
13:34I mean it's crazy...
13:35to think about it...
13:36isn't it...
13:37because you would think...
13:38that we know more...
13:39about nutrition now...
13:40with all of the stuff...
13:41we see on social media...
13:40but like...
13:41why are we failing...
13:42at the basics?
13:43well I think this was...
13:44your point...
13:45about wellness washing...
13:45um...
13:46so last month...
13:47that you published that...
13:48because I think...
13:49it's this idea...
13:50of like...
13:51we're saturated...
13:52with wellness...
13:53as I said...
13:54it's a multi-trillion dollar industry...
13:55it's enormous...
13:55um...
13:56and yet...
13:57it's becoming so attached...
13:58partly...
13:59because of clickbait...
14:00this feeling like...
14:01we must buy...
14:02the latest...
14:03gadget gizmo powder...
14:04to be well...
14:05and...
14:06that's not...
14:07really sustainable...
14:08they're expensive...
14:09they generally...
14:10they don't taste great...
14:11they're not really things...
14:12we keep up...
14:13versus like...
14:14those small shifts...
14:15in the way that...
14:15we cook...
14:15the way that we move...
14:16you know...
14:17one of the biggest...
14:18predicators...
14:19for...
14:20genuine in long...
14:20term health...
14:21is connection...
14:22and community...
14:23and...
14:24you know...
14:25ultimately...
14:25if...
14:26you know...
14:27and likewise...
14:28when it comes to movement...
14:29it's...
14:30things just walking...
14:30so powerful...
14:31for your health...
14:32and if you said...
14:33you know what...
14:34I'm gonna make...
14:35I'm gonna have some...
14:36kind of walking buddies...
14:35at work...
14:36and we're gonna do...
14:37lunchtime walks...
14:38we're gonna get out together...
14:39and we're gonna chat...
14:40we're gonna get away from our desk...
14:41we're gonna go on a 30 minute...
14:42power walk...
14:43that would do...
14:44wonders...
14:45for your health...
14:46and it's probably...
14:47quite...
14:48plausible...
14:49not every day...
14:50but...
14:51it's probably...
14:50quite plausible...
14:51for lots of us...
14:52so I think that's...
14:53for me...
14:54the big thing...
14:55it's sort of...
14:55there's nothing wrong...
14:56for the most part...
14:57with lots of...
14:58the gadgets...
14:59gizmos...
15:00etc...
15:00it's just that...
15:01I think it's very important...
15:02that they're not...
15:03synonymous with like...
15:04what the core of wellness is...
15:05because as you said earlier...
15:06I think that's...
15:07it's stress management...
15:08it's better sleep...
15:09it's better nutrition...
15:10and by that...
15:11I do mean like...
15:12more vegetables...
15:13and more beans...
15:14and things like that...
15:15and...
15:17and movement...
15:18and movement can be...
15:19walking...
15:20it doesn't...
15:20have to be a really...
15:21expensive class...
15:22and I just...
15:23I think it's...
15:24so incredible...
15:25really important...
15:26because we are...
15:27really failing...
15:28on the basics...
15:29and yet...
15:30the industry is so...
15:30enormous...
15:31and...
15:32I think it just shows...
15:33that our tensions...
15:34probably not necessarily...
15:35in the right place...
15:36and I also understand that...
15:37in the sense of like...
15:38collective...
15:39overwhelm...
15:40the desire...
15:41for a shortcut...
15:42or a quick fix...
15:43is really normal...
15:44like...
15:45wouldn't we all...
15:45love that...
15:46like...
15:47take this one thing...
15:48and you will be well...
15:49it's pretty appealing...
15:50yeah...
15:50it's a bit sci-fi...
15:51isn't it...
15:52the idea that...
15:53we're gonna...
15:54minimize our food...
15:55we're gonna take it...
15:56in tiny little pills...
15:55that are gonna hit...
15:56all the food groups...
15:57I mean to me...
15:58that's not wellness...
15:59and I'm...
16:00you know...
16:01everything...
16:00that you've just said...
16:01really chimes...
16:02and I'm really grateful to you...
16:03for discussing my article...
16:04on your podcast...
16:05because...
16:05I do really wanna make...
16:06wellness washing a thing...
16:07I want people to understand...
16:08that...
16:09you know...
16:10there is a...
16:10fear...
16:11of...
16:12what you need...
16:13being...
16:14monetary...
16:15and that...
16:16you know...
16:17the intersection of...
16:18late-stage capitalism...
16:19with health...
16:20is not necessarily...
16:20something that's gonna...
16:21benefit you...
16:22we really need to...
16:23as you say...
16:24understand the basics...
16:25and the basics are...
16:25better sleep...
16:26stress reduction...
16:27they are so boring...
16:28and everyone wants a hack...
16:29don't they...
16:30this is the...
16:30problem...
16:31and it's something...
16:32more interesting...
16:33to talk about...
16:34like...
16:35and I think...
16:36that's certainly...
16:37what I've really...
16:38come to...
16:39that's...
16:40to me...
16:41kind of...
16:42the crux...
16:43of the challenge...
16:44is like...
16:45ultimately...
16:46talking about...
16:47ways to cook a carrot...
16:48not...
16:49particularly exciting...
16:50or revolutionary...
16:51and the way...
16:52that algorithms...
16:53now work...
16:53and clickbait...
16:54headlines...
16:55and all the rest of it...
16:56you know...
16:57you'll know better...
16:58than anyone...
16:59working in this industry...
17:00like...
16:58you're just never...
16:59going to get the clicks...
17:00on an article...
17:01about four ways...
17:02to use carrots...
17:03as you are...
17:03on an article...
17:04that's like...
17:05four ways...
17:06to instantly...
17:07drop a dress size...
17:08or whatever it is...
17:08you know...
17:09it's just...
17:10the world doesn't work...
17:11that way...
17:12and...
17:13but as a result...
17:13and you know...
17:14we all favour...
17:15newness...
17:16it's interesting...
17:17to our brains...
17:18and so I...
17:18can understand...
17:19that therefore...
17:20wellness...
17:21becomes increasingly...
17:22synonymous...
17:23with newness...
17:23as we said at the...
17:23beginning...
17:24like...
17:25back in...
17:26you know...
17:272012...
17:28butter was really novel like that got headlines it was like whoa peanut butter's cousin yeah
17:33this is so cool you know about nut butter exactly like you can you know and it's like you can milk
17:38and almond and have almond milk like jokes and so that was what was interesting and that like that's
17:42also
17:43you can buy almond milk and almond butter like literally everywhere it doesn't it's not like
17:48exciting so you need something new and you know that all becomes all the biohacking and
17:53you know all the sort of like how to reverse your aging and all these just very complicated things
17:58not knocking them any of them as an individual merit it's just that as i said when i
18:03we have a collective struggle with the basics like i do i think we need to be in a world
18:08more than four percent of the population are eating enough fiber before we add on absolutely i mean i
18:13think there's also this problem that as you say we want newness and newness can sometimes
18:18come in a vehicle of criticism so yes we all love almond butter now but now we'll see video
18:23videos that say almond butter's bad for you oat milk's bad for you um every nut butter is
18:28ultra processed avoid ultra processed foods have become you know the top headline
18:33everyone's trying to avoid them and this is really interesting to me because ultra
18:38processed foods are now synonymous with vegan food so we were talking about vegan food as
18:43you know plant-based whole foods that were really good for you that were going to be good for your gut good for your
18:48heart now we're talking about how vegan food is bad for you because it's all made of ultra processed
18:53foods that to me is a really interesting shift especially with the way we talk about
18:58wellness and i wonder what your thoughts are on it because obviously you've got views on ultra processed
19:01food yeah that's
19:03that's been that has just as a strand in and of itself been a really interesting cycle to watch
19:08which i mean when when i started out plant-based was exactly what it's all about like
19:13cool ways to use your lentils and your carrots as we've talked about and it was that kind of simple
19:16cooking and it was always
19:18those whole food ingredients and that that was kind of my whole premise um and
19:23and then sort of
19:24and then sort of
19:25and then sort of 2018 2019 you started to have the impossible
19:28but
19:28burger and beyond me and all these kind of technological advances and like the burger that bleeds
19:33um which i always thought was so interesting because it's like is the bleeding the bed that people have
19:38you
19:38yeah i'm gonna go and have a really juicy bloody burger
19:41yeah exactly which is always fascinating
19:43but anyways and that was all kind of novel and interesting and it boom
19:47and it was the you know the kind of oatly's like post milk generation and you know that everyone
19:52you
19:52was going to drink oat milk and kind of this huge slight kind of overestimation of
19:57how many consumers would be interested in something like that and it was really interesting actually for us
20:02it was a delicious yellow because i you know i've never felt so kind of uncool you know we would go
20:07you
20:07to meetings with retailers and everyone was like well why aren't you doing this like no one's going to care about
20:12you
20:12lentils and chickpeas like this is the future is and and we you know passion
20:17passionately believe that you know it's not that it's not to demonize all ultra
20:22you
20:24you
20:26you
20:28you
20:30you
20:32you
20:34you
20:36you
20:38you
20:40you
20:42you
20:44you
20:46you
21:11you
20:51you
21:16you
21:18you
21:43you
21:45you
21:46you
22:12you
22:13you
22:14you
22:15you
22:16you
22:18can kind of apply some basic principles to it and also but the way you eat has to be joyful and i
22:23think that's
22:23the other kind of very important component if you constantly feel like you're compromising
22:28you're depriving yourself i don't think that's the way to live or the way to approach this and
22:33it's in that in that sense it's always going to be an individual balance on what works for you
22:38we've talked
22:38about different types of food we've talked about how challenging it can be to shop and you know when
22:43you're feeling
22:43poorly or when you're feeling tired you come home collapse on the sofa you've got
22:48your phone in your hand you're about to go for delivery can you maybe suggest a couple of recipes
22:53from quick wins that are something that you could do you know pretty quickly
22:58yeah a quick one um yeah i mean like i make them repeat something i think in the
23:03book it's called fancy beans on toes or fancy butter beans and i mean it's literally
23:08the simplest thing in the world you literally saute loads of garlic i think the more garlic the better
23:13in this one agree yeah lots of chili flakes again i would say the more chili the better
23:17and cherry tomatoes
23:18tomatoes five minutes or so once the garlic's cooked the tomatoes are softening you add a tin
23:23of butter beans then you add a little bit of lemon a little bit of yogurt you had some basil you can
23:28add that on the top so so simple but just delicious and then you pop it on top
23:33list and you're winning and it's like comfort food and it takes 10 minutes and you know
23:38you might need to buy some cherry tomatoes on your way home but you kind of do that anywhere
23:43you probably got yogurt lemon in the fridge that sounds so comforting and a super
23:48easy one i wonder if you can give us one more yes i mean gosh there's so many or something like i'll do
23:53you know just again with what i've got in the fridge but like maybe a fajita-ish
23:58type of tray bag i'll literally chuck in like any peppers i've got red onion so
24:03some tofu with some spices chuck it in the oven for kind of 20 minutes or so till those the veggies soften
24:08the tofu starts go crispy and then i'll literally just stir through rice oh i do
24:13garlic on the tray as well and then you squeeze out the garlic cubes when they're soft into yogurt
24:17so you've got some garlic
24:18mixed avocado lime juice right through the tofu and roasted spice
24:23veg done like it's those sorts of things it's it is so easy and
24:28it takes five minutes of prep you'll literally have one tray
24:33one little bowl for yogurt and one chopping board like it because i think that's the thing for me it was when i was
24:38doing your recipes but they're really kind of when i'm thinking about how i cook at home and cook for myself
24:43and my family it was this sense of like it's trying to meet that middle of a venn diagram
24:48which does feel like quite a small space where something's both well it's all three things it's got to be delicious
24:53as i said you can't live with constant compromise and deprivation that's just not fun
24:58and not sustainable
24:59and i think true health has got to be feel sustainable
25:03and it has to be pretty easy um because you're just not going to do it on a monday night
25:08otherwise and then you know i think it's important that it's got nutrition in it so i think it's trying to
25:13find that middle ground where it's easy enough quick enough it's definitely delicious
25:18and it makes you feel good
25:19and that for me is the kind of key thing when i'm thinking about suffering
25:23and it doesn't need to be as i said really complicated but it's like those those beans it's just
25:28you've got five different plants in there yeah it's a pretty good chunk of your 30 of the week
25:33and um 10 minutes one pan like it's so straightforward
25:38um and you feel really good about yourself when you do it but it really is so easy that's great i love a one pan
25:43dish i also i'm a big fan of tofu and i know it's quite divisive but i'm glad that they're a tofu recipe
25:48is in the book because i think one of the reasons it's divisive is because people don't really know how to make it
25:53you kind of buy it in a block and think what do i do with this yeah and it looks a bit weird and i would say
25:58because when it's not flavored it can be quite gross like i don't disagree with that
26:03but if you fry it till it's super crispy you know i'll do it often with like broccoli and noodles or rice
26:08and um yeah sort of maple harissa marinade or something like that delicious
26:13oh maple harissa sounds lovely you are making me hungry right now i'm going to take this book home
26:17and cook some stuff
26:18i also really want to ask about healthy habits healthy
26:23habits that you swear by now you've mentioned things like meditation breath work this is
26:28all stuff that i have discovered and has really made a difference to how i feel day to day but i
26:33wonder if you
26:33got any other tips things that you do day by day to kind of ease that stress load
26:38um they might be nutrition based or something else but any tips that you might have for people who are
26:43feeling
26:43the pinch of this time of year yeah i think keep it small and keep it flowing
26:48you know if you don't do it every day or every week doesn't matter but keep
26:53coming back to it it's really important and i think in that you've got to find things you enjoy
26:58because if you don't
26:58enjoy it you're not going to keep coming back to it so like some people love hip workouts it's my idea of
27:03how
27:03you know a burpee and i'm out of the room and so you know it doesn't matter if it's good for me it's
27:08never going to happen
27:08and i will never keep it up um and so i i don't have any kind of
27:13rules that i live by as such but i really do i really try and have a proper breakfast it can be quick
27:18it can be simple it can be overnight oats like it doesn't need to be complicated but i do find
27:23for me otherwise you rush out the door i've had three coffees and like suddenly it's turned
27:28clock and i'm having a real crash after all the jitters and the stress of trying to get everyone
27:33out the door on time
27:33with like vaguely brushed hair and i feel like this is music to people's ears though because they're gonna know
27:38that you know everyone goes through those mornings when everyone does it's stressful and
27:43kids always say mommy why are you so bossy i'm like because we're late every single day
27:48i've got to get to work yeah and you have the wrong shoes on like where's your book bag and
27:53why didn't you do your reading anyways um so you know i i do find
27:5810 minutes or so of of time to myself in the morning doesn't happen every day
28:03but trying to have that most days and i love to do five or ten minutes of breathing exercises
28:08or mindfulness and but even just drinking coffee in silence so power
28:13and not turning on my phone and looking at my phone at that point i try not to look at my phone
28:18really until i've left the house in the morning i'll turn it on and just like double check it that no one's
28:23like had some calamity but i'll um i don't really look at it i won't open any
28:28social apps or something um until i've left the house and sort of sorted the kids out
28:33which i do find quite helpful but i do lap sometimes obviously i think it's it's hard not to
28:38isn't it i think i was saying to you before we started recording that i automatically go to reach
28:42my phone a lot of the time
28:43and then think i don't actually need to check it there's nothing i need to look at right now
28:48is just this force of habit where i'm reaching for it and it's become this kind of comfort circuit in my
28:53head where i feel like this is something i have to do but when i second guess it and i try to be my
28:58mindful i don't have to do it in that moment i had this period um last year where i was
29:03i love reading i love books i love novels and um i was in
29:08like such a reading streak and i remember sitting like in a waiting room reading my book and everything
29:13everyone else was on the phone i was like yeah check me out like the biggest win of my life it did
29:18last but what i actually i did find i then started switching because i i we then we
29:23moved out of london and then so my commute when i'm coming in it's much longer obviously than just
29:28jumping on the
29:28and i found myself scrolling a little bit more and i actually swapped instagram for netflix
29:33which doesn't necessarily sound inherently positive it's been so great i spend
29:38probably the same amount of time on my phone but i've kind of stopped fighting the inevitable in
29:42that sense but i'm just watching
29:43shows that i really like then i guess for your attention span that's better because you're focused
29:48rather than looking
29:48at loads and loads of things flitting by your eyes yeah and i'm not comparing myself i'm not there like
29:53or kind of going into some kind of doom hole of like fear and paranoia about
29:58you
29:58all the things i've seen sort of thing it's not it's just escapism and it's quite
30:03you
30:03fun as opposed so i feel like i turn my phone off and i'm like oh i loved that show really invested
30:08in their relationship or whatever it is um and i kind of completely
30:13you
30:13and i think he binged poldark which was just phenomenal no one's oh my gosh loving it but it
30:18was like yeah
30:18obsessed with their relationship whatever it was as opposed to spending like an hour
30:23looking at either thing so yeah that terrify you i don't know i got this stage of like it was just video
30:28videos of like shark attacks and things like that and i was like i don't need to see pictures of great white shark
30:33morning it's okay but you watch one video and i think we were talking about it earlier as well
30:38you will be pushing
30:38push down this tunnel that you didn't create for yourself the algorithm created it exactly and it's kind of
30:43not your fault but then it's what you're bombarded with and it's really addictive and we know that things that scare
30:48us you know we're much more likely to click on them and so it was just finding way too much of that so i was like okay i can
30:53say on my phone i'm just gonna watch like poldark and it was really positive
30:58so yeah i mean my algorithm used to be obviously i use instagram
31:03instagram for research use tiktok for research and a lot of it used to be videos of
31:08wellness trends and a lot of these trends are unsustainable you know unimaginable
31:13imaginatively intense sometimes quite toxic and there came a point where i had to try
31:30you
31:18switch things up so someone said to me recently oh i bet your um instagram is just full
31:23full of challenges and fit people and i said no it's not anymore it used to be now it's just rescue dogs
31:28that is it so every day i'll send a different rescue dog to my boyfriend and he'll just reply no
31:33oh well i'm obsessed with um sourdough at the moment
31:38oh
31:38obviously i'm like five or six years too late this was this was very much a cobit situation
31:43very cool still though um but that's my whole algorithm which is very wholesome of like
31:47these are the reasons you're
31:48your bread's not getting the rise you want
31:50proving to me yeah exactly the best way to stretch
31:53and fold love that and that is wholesome it's super wholesome and i'm loving it so i click on it all
31:58the time and save them so i'm like give me more if they're still giving me shock attacks
32:02i think if there's a takeaway from this it's
32:03you have the power to create your own reality within social media and make it nice for yourself
32:08exactly
32:08do your brain a favor i like that um but then i think also the whole purpose of what we've been
32:13talking about is just kind of doing your best and doing what feels good for you and i think that doesn't
32:18look the same for every single person and i know and i think that's the point of like
32:22the idea that you're
32:23you know as i said i had my moment of smugness where i was reading a book in a waiting room but like
32:28the idea that
32:28i was going to not use my phone like of course i'm going to use my phone you're going to fight it to
32:33a degree so i think
32:33it's that sense of just trying to make it as positive as you can and be compassionate of
32:37yourself and i was like you know what i do just
32:38want to zone out but i'm going to zone out in a you know victoria beckham documentary or whatever
32:43it is like these are just sort of nice things to watch and i i don't feel like they have
32:48any semblance of negative impact on my mental health whereas scrolling for hours
32:53did like undoubtedly and that's not to say i never do it
32:58but instead of saying to myself i'm not going to look at my phone i am yeah but let me get lost
33:03in a really great show as opposed to let me get lost in things that make me feel bad about myself
33:08or make me feel terrified or paranoid i love that and i think it is a great
33:13tip but it's not the tip we're going to end on because i always end the podcast by asking my guests
33:18for their one wellness non-negotiable or the thing that just makes them feel well enough
33:23so if you had one thing that you do that helps you feel like you've you've done enough and that
33:28you're feeling good
33:28what would that be
33:29do you know what it's so difficult to pick one thing
33:33but i'd almost say it's telling myself exactly that of like it's enough
33:37good
33:38and i think that's a really important mindset shift as opposed to keep telling yourself like
33:43you've got to do more you've got to be more and i think for so many of us particularly
33:47as women there's always
33:48this sense of like don't rest like be more productive and actually you know
33:53like it's great if you've if you've put a good effort in like
33:58kind of give yourself enough credit for that and i think this sense of being good enough being well
34:02enough like doing enough
34:03is so powerful and it's so important because you can always do more and if you get yourself on the
34:08treadmill of always feeling you've got to do more i think it's really hard to be present and it's
34:13really hard to therefore enjoy what's right in front of you and it's not really worth it
34:18that's exactly it and i i loved what you said about just one percent different yeah
34:23habits every single day because yes you'll be amazed where you get to yeah if there's a
34:28thing you want to do like if you want to change your diet this year and you want to it's 365
34:33days from today you want to say you know what i eat really like generally i eat generally a healthy
34:38diet you're not going to change it tomorrow but if you said to yourself yeah this week
34:43i'm just going to add an extra portion of plants each meal and next week i'm just going to
34:48batch cook on a sunday and i'll have a couple of work lunches ready for action and you know then i will
34:53stop my like meal deal for that you'll start just generally reduce your
34:58processed food and eating more plants and getting more fiber and feeding your gut health in a
35:03really manageable simple straightforward way and it won't feel like a lot in the moment
35:08so it won't feel kind of arduous but i think six months on 12 months on you'll be really
35:13surprised at how much your diet has changed and how well you feel for it whereas if you say to
35:18yourself and change
35:18everything today
35:20sort of guarantee in a month it's gone out the window
35:23that is perfect advice i think to take with us into the rest of the year and mills thank you for
35:28joining me on well enough thanks for having me if you enjoyed this episode with ella i know you'll enjoy
35:33this episode with national wellness treasure joe wicks where we explore his controversial
35:38ultra processed food documentary and the current obsession with protein
35:44so
35:48you
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