- 13 hours ago
Creator/Director Genndy Tartakovsky talks to The Inside Reel about tone, integration, silence and evolution of approach in regards to the third season of his adult animation series: "Primal" on Adult Swim.
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00:00Ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah
00:05Ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah
00:10Ah, ah, ah, ah, ah
00:15Ah, ah, ah, ah
00:20Ah, ah, ah, ah
00:25Ah, ah, ah, ah
00:30Ah, ah, ah, ah
00:35It's just the tragedy of a certain duality we see towards the end
00:40where you're seeing a mirror of something else
00:43I'm thinking closer to the end
00:45It breaks your heart
00:47I mean, you know, but yet you're able to balance
00:50humor in these little moments outside of that
00:53Is that just a...
00:55Did you find that cadence?
00:57It's even more pronounced here
00:59just because there's...
01:00There's such loss
01:01Can you talk about finding those moments of levity and then...
01:05Pushing the tragedy
01:06It's never melodramatic
01:07It's always earned
01:09Always
01:10Could you talk about that balance of tone?
01:12Because that's done by the music
01:13That's done by your framing
01:15But that's also done, you know, obviously by the pace that you're setting
01:19And it's...
01:20It's interesting because, yeah
01:21Because like, you know
01:22I mean, number one, I love comedy, right?
01:24And I...
01:25I find myself
01:26Especially in Primal
01:27Holding myself back
01:29I have to
01:30Because you don't wanna...
01:31You don't wanna...
01:32You know, you don't wanna destroy all the hard work that we've done
01:34Creating real...
01:35Emotion and feeling, right?
01:36Yeah
01:37By crapping on it with a joke
01:39And so...
01:40At the...
01:40At the same time
01:41It's so subtle
01:42I don't mean any criticism of it, you know
01:44So...
01:45Yeah, yeah, no, no, I get it
01:45Yeah, but I think it's...
01:46It is purposeful
01:47Because like, for me
01:48Like, the baby crying scene
01:50Right?
01:51Like, that was...
01:53I know, you know, having children
01:55I know what that feels like
01:57And so...
01:58We get the humor of it
02:00Right?
02:00Still telling a story
02:01But having this little character moment
02:03You know?
02:04And I think...
02:05That's where...
02:05Where the humor comes from
02:06It's a little bit of...
02:08From character
02:09Right?
02:10Which is...
02:10Important
02:11And it's really interesting
02:12When you say...
02:13Everything's melodramatic
02:15But...
02:15But then...
02:16It's...
02:17It's real...
02:18Because...
02:19Yeah...
02:20My story...
02:20Telling style is melodrama
02:22Hmm...
02:23It's very...
02:24It's...
02:25I feel...
02:25It's heightened
02:26Yeah
02:27And...
02:28But at the same time
02:30It's...
02:30It's not a joke
02:31Like, I am trying...
02:32I want you to feel it
02:34I'm not trying to be so...
02:35So extreme
02:37That you don't feel anything
02:38You know?
02:39Yeah
02:40And it's...
02:41And it's like...
02:42You know?
02:43Those are the type of things
02:44That I don't know
02:45Because I...
02:45I don't really get to sit
02:46With an audience
02:47And see how they react
02:48Hmm...
02:49I'm just trusting my gut
02:50And...
02:50And the way I tell stories
02:51And...
02:52You know?
02:53Having...
02:54Haven't done it for...
02:55Over 30 years
02:55Yeah
02:56There's certain things
02:57I feel work
02:58And...
02:59You know?
03:00Especially work for me
03:00How...
03:01How...
03:02How...
03:03How...
03:04How...
03:05How...
03:05You
03:10SCREAMING
03:15You
03:20The one thing and I
03:25Talked to it's a lot of physical
03:26Like live action actors about this
03:28Is there's an
03:29It
03:30Intimacy to the brutality
03:31But there's a brutality to the intimacy
03:33And everything
03:35That spear does he feels everything
03:37And yet he has this power
03:38You're you're used
03:40Of the lines
03:40I mean obviously there's
03:41I see hearts back to Harryhausen
03:43All over the place
03:44Sure
03:45So
03:45But using those different sequences
03:48To show that intimacy
03:49You
03:50And that brutality
03:51And vice versa
03:52As a reflection
03:53Of physicality
03:54And emotionality
03:55Is so key
03:56Could you talk about
03:57The intimacy of brutality
03:59And vice versa
04:00Yeah
04:00And it's
04:01And to me what you're saying
04:02It's about
04:03Not having
04:04Action for action's sake
04:06You know
04:07And that everything
04:09You
04:09From the beginning of
04:11Season one
04:12Everything we tried to do
04:14Was
04:15Character motivated
04:17You know
04:18Something from the necessity
04:19Of the character
04:19Yeah
04:21And
04:21And it's
04:23It's
04:24Something
04:24Something that was a surprise
04:25Because when the show
04:26First came out
04:27I thought
04:28Well
04:28You know
04:29We've got so much
04:29Sexy violence
04:31That's what people
04:32Are going to tune in
04:33With
04:33For
04:33And react
04:34Of
04:34And then when the
04:36Reactions came
04:37That we love
04:38Spear and Fang
04:39And their relationship
04:40Is what we love
04:41About this show
04:42First
04:42That
04:44That was the biggest
04:45Success of the show
04:46And so now
04:47Everything is
04:49Stab
04:49Stemming from that
04:50You know
04:51Everything is about
04:52Their character
04:53And so
04:53When he's
04:54Whatever he's fighting
04:55There's going to be
04:57There's
04:58It's designed
04:59To
04:59For a story point
05:00So like
05:01The example
05:01You brought
05:02Where he rips
05:03The
05:04The tongue out
05:05Yeah
05:05It is
05:06The
05:07There's no
05:08There's no
05:08There's no
05:09There's no
05:09There's no
05:09The zombie
05:10Zombie choreography
05:11Or zombie fighting
05:12And it's pure
05:14Brutality
05:14There's no
05:16Wind up
05:17Or no
05:17Boxing
05:18Or no
05:18Martial
05:19Arts
05:19It's like
05:20Grab
05:21And rip
05:21You know
05:23And it's
05:24And it's subtle
05:24Right
05:24Like it's not
05:25We're not
05:25Overexplaining it
05:27Just hoping
05:28That
05:29You
05:29You feel
05:29Like
05:30Yeah
05:30That's what
05:31I would do
05:31In this situation
05:32I would just
05:33Grab
05:34Grab
05:34And rip
05:34Or tear
05:35Or just
05:36Bull through
05:37And or run
05:38You know
05:39It's boiled
05:41Down to
05:42It's simplest
05:42Level
05:44earthquake
05:46You
05:47You
05:47You
05:48You
05:48You
05:49You
06:07You
05:49You
05:54You
05:59You
06:04You
06:09You
06:14You
06:19The visuals are always so important, but the use of sound
06:24And the use of music is so pronounced and very specific and deliberate
06:29And as is in all you do, can you talk about the sort of concert sort of the
06:34Rhythm and conduction, conducting of that interaction
06:38Because
06:39At times silence works so beautifully and just the patter of the rain
06:43And it works
06:44Because of the color tone, too
06:46The different colors you're using within the frame
06:48Can you sort of
06:49Talk about sort of those levels of integration
06:54And how important they are here
06:55But how that's evolved for you over the years
06:57Because the thing is, is that
06:59The more you do this, obviously, the better you get at it
07:02Because as you said, your instinct is home
07:04Could you talk about that from those different angles?
07:08Yeah, I mean, it's
07:08It's
07:09That's always been my favorite part
07:11Right?
07:12And it's all
07:12It really came from
07:14From the early days of Dexter and Powerpuff and Samurai
07:18Where
07:19The music always had to be turned down
07:22Because there was dialogue
07:24Right?
07:26So it becomes undertone
07:27And yeah, in an action sequence
07:29You've got the music
07:30And then you've got effects
07:31And there's always somebody yelling
07:32Or, you know, or efforts
07:34And as through my career
07:36I found myself stripping things out
07:39Because
07:39Especially in early TV
07:40Where we had mono
07:42You know, when I first was doing Dexter
07:44It was barely stereo
07:45And you can't hear anything
07:48Hmm
07:49So then I found myself going
07:50Well, I'm going to do this action sequence
07:53But I'm going to
07:54Do it
07:54Just music
07:55Right?
07:57With maybe a little bit of
07:57The sound of the car
07:58Right?
07:59Rebalancing it
08:00You know
08:00And it's interesting
08:02Not to get too much into it
08:03But
08:04You know
08:04When I first started doing Dexter
08:06There's no books on sound design
08:09Or how to properly
08:11Have a good mix
08:12And so
08:14I had no clue
08:15So I'm going into my first episode
08:16To mix
08:17And I don't know
08:19What?
08:19What I'm doing
08:19You know
08:20But then when I
08:21When I hear it
08:22My gut tells me
08:24Like
08:24No, no, no
08:24This isn't telling the story
08:26The right way
08:27And it's not the right intention
08:29And so then
08:29You fast forward to now
08:31Where I'm using these tools
08:33For
08:33Storytelling
08:34In the
08:35In the most
08:35Heightened way
08:37And
08:38Like
08:39Like I talked to Tyler
08:40And Joanne
08:41Who does our music
08:42Like
08:43Like when Spears walking
08:45I go
08:45We're going to have a lot of walking
08:47And so
08:48There needs to be something
08:50That tells us
08:51What is happening
08:52In his mind
08:53Right
08:54So we're getting to these
08:55Really complex emotions
08:56And it's
08:57It's what music does
08:58Right
08:59It helps you understand
09:01Emotionally where it's at
09:03And I
09:03I
09:03I want it to be
09:05Scary in a way
09:06Because it's this walking zombie
09:08Walking dead
09:08And then at the same time
09:10I want it to be tragic
09:12Because it's our
09:13Character
09:13Character that we love
09:15And then
09:16They came up with this
09:17You know
09:18This
09:18It's crazy
09:19It's one of my
09:21Favorite pieces of music
09:22We've done for the show
09:23And it really evoked
09:26Evoked that
09:27And then
09:27Now we've got
09:28A
09:28Two minute traveling sequence
09:31But it's not just him walking
09:33You're now
09:33Feeling
09:34And that's the difference
09:36The
09:36The music that we do
09:38For the most part
09:38Is trying to say
09:40Something emotionally
09:41And then when I rip
09:42When I strip it out
09:43And it's just the effects
09:45That I'm building
09:46Usually
09:47I'm doing that
09:48For the reality
09:50Right
09:51Because music also
09:52Characteratures it
09:53We don't have
09:53Music
09:54A sound
09:54In real life
09:56Yeah
09:56Right
09:58I always feel like
10:00When you strip the sound
10:01Out
10:01And it's a very
10:0270s tool
10:03Like
10:03It
10:03People
10:04In
10:04Today's
10:05Storytelling
10:05It's almost
10:06They're afraid
10:07To keep it silent
10:08Everything is
10:10Overexposed
10:11To the senses
10:12And
10:13But
10:13But
10:13But in the 70s
10:14They loved it
10:15They loved to strip
10:17The sound out
10:18And have
10:18That would be
10:18More avant-garde
10:20Or whatever
10:21Right
10:21And I love
10:22The way I feel
10:23I
10:23When I watched movies
10:24Like The Sorcerer
10:25Or The Conversation
10:26Or even Apocalypse Now
10:28There's moments like that
10:29So I
10:30So I strip it out
10:31To make it
10:32To give you
10:33Your
10:33A reality
10:34And all of a sudden
10:35Because
10:35The silence
10:37Of something
10:38Draws you in
10:39You're like
10:39Wait
10:40What's going on
10:40There's a tension
10:41To it
10:42And
10:43And so
10:43Those are all
10:44Kind of
10:44My tools
10:45That I use
10:48I
10:49No
10:50It
10:51No
10:52No
10:53No
10:53No
10:53I don't know.
10:58I don't know.
11:03And my last question, because it's interesting, you were saying it because...
11:08But you have to do it at a certain level, because as a conductor, you can establish...
11:13...the boundaries, because the gore and everything go far enough, but it doesn't go...
11:18...beyond people's capability to handle.
11:21It doesn't go so, you know...
11:23...complex that you can't understand, and yet it's infinitely complicated.
11:28Can you talk about looking at, not necessarily borders, but, you know...
11:33...if you're conducting within a musical track, not in terms of music itself, but visually...
11:39...how do you know?
11:40Is that just the instinct of looking at the boards?
11:43As you're building, and knowing, okay, this is how far I want to go, or is that...
11:48...taken care of way before, and has that changed, obviously, since, you know, you're looking...
11:53...at the 70s, I mean, I agree, silence is the most powerful thing anybody can do, like...
11:58...literally, you know, Spear pressing on his brain matter...
12:03...every time that's squished, that just makes...
12:05...it's cringy enough that it makes you cringe.
12:08...but it makes you think, oh my God, what has he lost?
12:11Right. Yeah, and that's exactly right.
12:13And the, it usually starts in the story, storyboarding part, where as I'm...
12:18...storyboarding, I'm already getting to feel...
12:21...because it'll guide me the way...
12:23...what I want to do, like, oh, yeah, he's just walking, but I've had a lot of music already...
12:28...because I kind of have the whole thing in my mind, in a way.
12:33...
12:33...right?
12:34...and so when I'm doing an episode, and I'm boarding it, I go, okay, well, he's...
12:38...walking through the jungle here, oh yeah, I want it to be intimate, and he's lost...
12:43...in the jungle, right?
12:44...so we're going to do shots of far away...
12:48...and you feel the bird, and we'll have the feeling that we're inside with him...
12:53...but we're, it's a voyeur-esque feeling, right?
12:56Yeah.
12:57And so that...
12:58...as soon as that idea comes, it's like, oh, right, it guides you, right?
13:02Just sound...
13:03...and then he'll slowly get closer.
13:07...
13:08...
13:08...and that's what is, uh, that's...
13:13...
13:13...everything works together for me, right?
13:16Mm-hmm.
13:17So as I'm drawing it...
13:18...for the very first time, I'm already thinking of the sound, I'm already thinking of...
13:23...what kind of sequence it is, and the type of shots.
13:28...what he does, everything is informed by all of those ideas, you know?
13:33...and that's the, that's the advantage I have by being in charge...
13:38...you know?
13:39...and not having a committee that I have to fight with, with every decision.
13:43...
13:43...people trusting me, and that I do, you know, 60 to 70%.
13:48...
13:48...of all the storyboards.
13:49Yeah.
13:50...it's the...
13:51...primal truly is...
13:53...the...
13:54...the biggest expression that's personal to me.
13:58...and very personal.
13:59So you see yourself now...
14:02...very...
14:03...very much on screen when you see Primal, you see your intent completely.
14:07It's...
14:08...it's the most unfiltered...
14:09...if you want to see Genndy, that's, you know...
14:11...that's the show to watch.
14:12Wow.
14:13...that's the show to watch.
14:13...you know, it's the most unfiltered...
14:15...pure ideas that are...
14:16...come from me and my sensibility.
14:18Wow.
14:19...obviously there's a lot of people involved in it.
14:21For sure.
14:22...but it's...
14:23...it's...
14:23...you know...
14:24...it's the most me, for sure.
14:26...
14:28...is...
14:29...if you want to see...
14:31...yes...
14:32...yes...
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