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The Sunday Nation newspaper, and one of its leading reporters, are being sued for libel after describing a psychotherapy group as 'harmful' and 'fraudulent'.
Terrence Hardiman and Edward Jewesbury star.
The Sunday Nation newspaper, and one of its leading reporters, are being sued for libel after describing a psychotherapy group as 'harmful' and 'fraudulent'.
Terrence Hardiman and Edward Jewesbury star.
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00:12:59And then there's a
00:13:29Has anything at all
00:13:59Mr. Blower's
00:14:29made a greater impact and
00:14:59Yes and so on and so on
00:15:29impact, impact, impact, that's a
00:15:59Mr Blower, I would remind you that the onus in this case rests on you
00:16:03to prove that your extremely serious and damaging allegations are true.
00:16:07Now, so far, what you have told the jury may be excellent journalistic copy,
00:16:10but I am bound to say that it does nothing in terms of hard evidence
00:16:13to support your allegations, does it?
00:16:15Mr Blower, have you also written articles exposing, among other things, pyramid selling?
00:16:21Yes, I have.
00:16:22Bribery in local government?
00:16:23That's right.
00:16:24The maltreatment of children in certain orphanages?
00:16:26Yes.
00:16:27And is it true to say that at least this last article was commended by MPs
00:16:32on both sides of the House in Parliament?
00:16:33Yes, it was.
00:16:34Yes.
00:16:35Finally, in writing this article on the open box,
00:16:38you must have been aware of the possibility of a libel action.
00:16:42Oh, well, it's always a possibility in a case like this.
00:16:44And yet you and your employers were prepared to go ahead and take that risk.
00:16:48I thought that what I wrote was the truth, and I thought the public ought to know it.
00:16:51Thank you, Mr Blower.
00:16:52You may stand down, Mr Blower.
00:16:57I graduated as a doctor at Dublin University in 1954.
00:17:14I've specialised in psychiatry ever since.
00:17:16What's your present post, Dr Gibbons?
00:17:18A consultant psychiatrist at St Patrick's Islington.
00:17:21Now, Dr Gibbons, you've read Mr Blower's article,
00:17:24and you've heard his evidence relating to these so-called psychotherapy sessions at the open box.
00:17:29Are you familiar with this type of activity?
00:17:31I think any psychiatrist would recognise the species.
00:17:34In my particular case, I happened to spend some time with a group of people who went in for this kind of thing.
00:17:41Indeed, some of the sessions which Mr Blower has described were absolutely identical to some which I myself have observed.
00:17:47In what capacity did you spend time with that group?
00:17:50Professionally, as an observer, you understand, I had expressed a certain scepticism,
00:17:56and so they invited me to come and see for myself.
00:17:59I was most interested and happy to accept their invitation.
00:18:01How many sessions did you attend?
00:18:04Oh, dear.
00:18:05Well, I'm very bad at that sort of thing.
00:18:06Well, what?
00:18:08About twice a week for just over four months, so that'd make about 30 sessions, wouldn't it?
00:18:13Yes, after which you wrote a paper?
00:18:15I did.
00:18:16Would you tell the jury what conclusions you reached, please, Dr Gibbons?
00:18:20Well, I confess I remained an unbeliever.
00:18:22The avowed object is to free people from their inhibitions, to lead them to a truer awareness of their real selves,
00:18:30and so to a greater personal happiness.
00:18:33I don't think many of us would quarrel with such aims,
00:18:35but I find nothing in these modern methods that are in any way an improvement on more traditional techniques.
00:18:42Furthermore, I firmly believe that when they're used on immature or unstable people, they can be positively dangerous.
00:18:48Indeed, two of the young people in the group I observed subsequently came to me for treatment.
00:18:53So it is your considered opinion as a psychiatrist that the open-box psychotherapy techniques,
00:18:58as we've heard them described, are indeed harmful, as Mr Blower stated in his article.
00:19:03Well, they certainly can be, yes.
00:19:05Thank you, Dr Gibbons.
00:19:07Dr Gibbons, would you say that psychiatry is still a young science?
00:19:12I suppose that's right.
00:19:14And that experienced psychiatrists often disagree with each other?
00:19:17Oh, most certainly.
00:19:18And is it also true to say that some psychiatrists have great faith in more modern radical psychotherapy techniques
00:19:23of the kind under discussion?
00:19:25Indeed, some of my younger colleagues do seem to have found some such methods profitable.
00:19:31My frank opinion remains that it's just trendy mumbo-jumbo.
00:19:35Correct me if I'm wrong, Dr Gibbons, but as I understand it,
00:19:38you felt that the open-box psychotherapy sessions could be disturbing for immature or unstable people.
00:19:43Is that right?
00:19:43That's quite right.
00:19:44Would you agree with me, Doctor, that the same could be said of, well, falling in love?
00:19:51Yes, I suppose so.
00:19:52Or football mania.
00:19:54Possibly.
00:19:54Exam fever.
00:19:56Oh, certainly, yes.
00:19:57The record of suicide.
00:19:58Or religions.
00:20:00Yes, there can be no doubt at all about that.
00:20:03Thank you, Dr Gibbons.
00:20:04Yes, you may stand down, Dr Gibbons.
00:20:08I call Mr Manubhai Gupta.
00:20:10My lord.
00:20:10How long have you been living in England, Mr Gupta?
00:20:26Nearly four years.
00:20:27Where were you brought up?
00:20:28My family have a home in Madras, but my father is a diplomat,
00:20:31so we've moved around quite a bit from country to country, you understand.
00:20:34Yes.
00:20:34Would you tell us what brought you to England?
00:20:36I came in order to take up a place I had been offered at Caius College, Cambridge.
00:20:40What were you reading, Mr Gupta?
00:20:41Chemical engineering.
00:20:42Did you enjoy your time at Cambridge?
00:20:45I cannot say I found it altogether a relaxing experience.
00:20:48In what way?
00:20:50Many students, for example, have money problems.
00:20:53Was that true in your case?
00:20:54Oh, no.
00:20:54My father is a rich man.
00:20:56I have a more than handsome private allowance.
00:20:59No money problems.
00:21:00What, then?
00:21:01Mr Gupta, the jury knows of your involvement with the open box.
00:21:05I think it would help us all to know something of the background of what led up to your becoming involved.
00:21:09It's not easy.
00:21:10Well, tell us about your father, then.
00:21:13My father.
00:21:14My father is a hard-working, dutiful public figure in India, in politics now, very successful.
00:21:20Would you say he was a loving sort of man, a family man?
00:21:23I would say, sir, that he had little time and even less inclination for family life.
00:21:28Your mother?
00:21:29About Hindu, in great awe of my father.
00:21:32We did not see very much of her.
00:21:33What about this moving about from place to place, as service and diplomatic families often have to?
00:21:39Would you say that affected you?
00:21:40Of course.
00:21:41One had little time to put down one's roots in any particular place, least of all India.
00:21:46It was difficult.
00:21:48My childhood was definitely rootless, you might say.
00:21:50And loveless.
00:21:52I suppose so.
00:21:52Was this why you found Cambridge difficult?
00:21:55Many people have had unsettled childhoods.
00:21:58In Cambridge, I was an outsider, an Indian and a Western University culture, but also an Indian without any real identity with India.
00:22:06Furthermore, I'm rich, which makes people resentful of me and me suspicious of them.
00:22:11As a rich man, I was expected to join the smart set, the pit club and so forth, which I found snobbish and decadent.
00:22:18As a non-white, I was expected to be political.
00:22:24My non-involvement caused me great guilt.
00:22:26Oh, yes, I had problems.
00:22:27Easier to understand now than they were then.
00:22:29Why did you not leave?
00:22:32I enjoyed my work.
00:22:33Would you tell us what class you achieved at the end of your first year in part one of your tripos exams?
00:22:38First class.
00:22:39Was it ever suggested to you that you might have a future in academics?
00:22:43My tutor gave me to understand that if I did as well in the rest of my tripos, the college might offer me a fellowship.
00:22:48And what did you get in finals?
00:22:50I never completed my course.
00:22:52Why not?
00:22:54I met him.
00:22:55Martin Haywood, the secretary of the Open Box.
00:22:58He was not secretary then. That was before bureaucracy set in.
00:23:02How did you meet?
00:23:03In London. He was handing out leaflets. He gave me one. We started talking.
00:23:08The same evening, I went to my first session.
00:23:10Were you affected by it?
00:23:11Well, I had never experienced anything like it.
00:23:14Within a week, I was, well, completely hooked, you see.
00:23:17Can you try and explain what this attraction was for you?
00:23:19Well, my entire life was changed.
00:23:21I began to accept the world for what it was, or rather what I thought it was.
00:23:26Suddenly, I felt I had found something worth struggling for, something I could belong to.
00:23:29So what did you do?
00:23:31It was about this time they were trying to move to Shoot Hall.
00:23:35I knew they needed money.
00:23:36I had a small trust in the UK, which I was 21, you see.
00:23:40I controlled.
00:23:43I paid it over to them.
00:23:45How much was it?
00:23:47£10,000, sir.
00:23:48The case of Martin Haywood against Anthony Blower and Nation News Limited
00:24:16will be resumed tomorrow in the Crown Court.
00:24:26At Fullchester Crown Court, the young journalist Tony Blower is being sued for libel
00:24:31because of a newspaper article he wrote about a cult called The Open Box,
00:24:36in which he alleged it was both harmful and fraudulent.
00:24:39Mr Blower's counsel has called a former member of the movement
00:24:42to give evidence in support of his allegations.
00:24:47When did you become a resident member of The Open Box, Mr Gupta?
00:24:52Well, when they moved to Shoot Hall, I went too.
00:24:55Yes.
00:24:55Did it live up to its expectations, to your expectations of what it was going to be?
00:24:59Oh, yes.
00:25:00Certainly what Mr Blower says.
00:25:02The sadism, the hysterics, the crippling sense of fear
00:25:04that most of us had to live with, they were real enough.
00:25:06But one accepted them.
00:25:10However, after about four months, about that,
00:25:14I began to feel static, you know?
00:25:17I felt no real progress was being made.
00:25:20Nothing was really being achieved.
00:25:22And that's when they did something very clever.
00:25:25He came to me.
00:25:27He said that Megan and Janine had noticed me.
00:25:31He said they had been talking about me upstairs,
00:25:33that I was doing exceptionally well,
00:25:35and that they felt I was nearly ready to join them.
00:25:39What was your response?
00:25:41I have never felt so proud in my life, sir. Never.
00:25:43So were you accepted then as a member of the inner circle?
00:25:48Not until I had paid my subscription in full.
00:25:51Would you mind telling us what you mean by that, Mr Gupta?
00:25:54Well, in the same conversation, he said to me
00:25:56that the movement needed money to save it from collapse.
00:25:58Did I know of any likely sources?
00:26:02I told him that all my money was gone,
00:26:03that I only had my allowance left.
00:26:05Did Mr Haywood seem upset?
00:26:07Oh, no, not at all.
00:26:09He's a clever man.
00:26:10He laughed and told me not to worry.
00:26:13But did you worry?
00:26:14Certainly I worried.
00:26:16I felt that coming from a rich family,
00:26:18I had an obligation to save the movement.
00:26:19I felt that everything depended on me.
00:26:21Did you do anything about it then?
00:26:23Yes, sir.
00:26:25Would you please tell the jury what steps you took, Mr Gupta?
00:26:27I wrote to my mother.
00:26:32I told her I had been reconverted to Hinduism
00:26:35and that I wanted to contribute to a fund
00:26:37for a Hindu temple in Stockwell.
00:26:40She sent me 15,000 pounds from her personal account in France.
00:26:43I paid it over to them.
00:26:48Would you tell us then
00:26:49how much money altogether
00:26:51you paid in to the Open Box Fund
00:26:54in the first six months of your involvement with them?
00:26:5725,000 pounds, sir.
00:27:00What was their response to this second donation,
00:27:02the one for 15,000 pounds?
00:27:04I got a letter thanking me
00:27:06from him.
00:27:07Yes, my lord,
00:27:08it's in the agreed bundle of documents
00:27:09at page 25.
00:27:10It's written by Mr Haywood to Mr Gupta.
00:27:12It's quite short.
00:27:14Dear Guppy,
00:27:15thanks for the money.
00:27:17You have come a long way
00:27:18and are now a good and important friend.
00:27:21You will find there is a rich harvest
00:27:23on the top floor.
00:27:25Welcome,
00:27:26strength,
00:27:27Martin.
00:27:28Did you say strength?
00:27:29I understand this is a standard salutation
00:27:31among members of the Open Box, my lord.
00:27:33I see.
00:27:34What did you understand by the letter, Mr Gupta?
00:27:36That I had been received into what Dave...
00:27:38Mr Blower has called the inner circle.
00:27:43And did it turn out as you had expected?
00:27:46I found company directors running a business.
00:27:50Bureaucracy.
00:27:51All the talk was of money,
00:27:53numbered accounts in Swiss banks,
00:27:54villas in Mexico and the West Indies.
00:27:56They said they were raising funds
00:27:58for starting up centres.
00:27:59They raised funds, I've no doubt,
00:28:00but no centres got started.
00:28:01Did you confront them with that?
00:28:03Oh yes.
00:28:04What did they say?
00:28:07They laughed.
00:28:09Quietly.
00:28:10They always laughed quietly.
00:28:13They said I was being neurotic.
00:28:15That I was regressing.
00:28:17And that I couldn't expect to be cut in
00:28:18as long as I was being neurotic.
00:28:20Cut in?
00:28:21The rich harvest, money.
00:28:23Mr Gupta, did you ask for the return of your money?
00:28:26I asked.
00:28:27And did you get it back?
00:28:29They said some time.
00:28:32Then they said it was spent or in shares
00:28:35or in some such that could not now be sold.
00:28:37They said they were disappointed in me.
00:28:39I never got the money.
00:28:40Why did you continue to stay at Chute Hall?
00:28:44Oh.
00:28:46I think it was the possibility,
00:28:49the truth,
00:28:50the possibility of walking away
00:28:51never once occurred to me.
00:28:52I think I was hypnotised, you know.
00:28:55Well how did you get away in the end?
00:28:57I only remember waking up in hospital.
00:29:00They told me I had tried to kill myself.
00:29:02How long did you stay in hospital, Mr Gupta?
00:29:05Two months.
00:29:06And are you still receiving treatment?
00:29:08I am.
00:29:09Psychiatric treatment?
00:29:10Yes, sir.
00:29:11Thank you, Mr Gupta.
00:29:12Mr Gupta,
00:29:16we've heard your childhood described as
00:29:18loveless and rootless
00:29:19and you've told us at a Cambridge you felt an outsider.
00:29:22Yes, sir.
00:29:23You went on to say that when you encountered
00:29:25the teaching of the open box,
00:29:26your entire life changed.
00:29:28I had found something worth struggling for,
00:29:30something I could belong to.
00:29:31Is that right?
00:29:32Yes.
00:29:33And when you came to Chute Hall,
00:29:34you still felt the movement was important to you?
00:29:36In general, yes.
00:29:37Did you feel you yourself were making progress?
00:29:40I hoped I was.
00:29:41So you felt it was, shall we say,
00:29:42merited when you were invited to the top floor,
00:29:45to the inner circle, as we heard of course.
00:29:46I was pleased, pleased, proud.
00:29:48It never occurred to you that some kind of pressure
00:29:50was being put on you,
00:29:51say, to make a donation to the open box funds?
00:29:53Well...
00:29:53I mean, surely if you had felt
00:29:54that you were being used like that,
00:29:56you'd have turned your back on the entire movement,
00:29:57like any man of spirit.
00:29:58At that time, I had no such suspicion.
00:30:01Did anybody pressurise you for money,
00:30:03threaten you in any way?
00:30:05Nothing was actually said.
00:30:06Did anybody apply pressure
00:30:07over the original donation of £10,000?
00:30:10No, but...
00:30:11So any money you donated to the open box
00:30:13was given entirely voluntarily?
00:30:15I suppose so, but my state of mind...
00:30:16As I understand it,
00:30:18your doubts about the movement
00:30:19set in from the time you joined this inner circle.
00:30:22Am I right?
00:30:23Yes.
00:30:24Now, Mr. Gupta,
00:30:24is it true to say that this small group of people
00:30:27was effectively the administrative body
00:30:29that ran the entire affairs of the open box?
00:30:31Yes.
00:30:31So surely it's hardly surprising
00:30:33that conversation on the top floor
00:30:34was largely business?
00:30:35No.
00:30:36Would you, for example,
00:30:37accuse people responsible
00:30:38for administering church funds
00:30:40of being unchristian
00:30:41because they are businesslike?
00:30:43Mr. Gupta?
00:30:45No.
00:30:47Did you, in fact,
00:30:48ever examine the accounts of the open box?
00:30:51No.
00:30:52No?
00:30:53Well, don't you think it's somewhat irresponsible
00:30:54then to accuse the movement of fraud?
00:30:56The accounts would not show anything.
00:30:58It was obvious in the way they talked
00:30:59and behaved and...
00:31:01laughed.
00:31:02Laughed at you?
00:31:03Yes.
00:31:04Why do you think they laughed at you, Mr. Gupta?
00:31:06They laughed at me because I'm not like them,
00:31:08because I'm...
00:31:08Because you are what?
00:31:10They talked about me behind my back all the time.
00:31:13Were there times, would you say, Mr. Gupta,
00:31:15when you felt you hadn't been properly consulted
00:31:16over some decision taken at the open box?
00:31:19Yes.
00:31:19You felt they underestimated your contribution?
00:31:22Exactly, yes.
00:31:23And you were very anxious to make a contribution, weren't you?
00:31:25I had many plans, many ideas.
00:31:27It must have been very painful for you
00:31:28to be excluded like this.
00:31:29Yes, sir.
00:31:29Yes, sir.
00:31:30It was painful.
00:31:31Don't you see,
00:31:32I wanted that we should be friends
00:31:33working together to build something good.
00:31:34But I had no friends, no voice there.
00:31:38It was a nightmare, sir.
00:31:39They stood, all of them, together against me.
00:31:40Yes, would you say that the feeling
00:31:41that you were being excluded in this way
00:31:43made you at all neurotic, Mr. Gupta?
00:31:45And that had you been less neurotic,
00:31:47you might have been included to a greater extent?
00:31:51Mr. Gupta, what was your relationship with Megan Watts?
00:31:55I...
00:31:55In what way?
00:31:57Well, did you find her attractive?
00:31:59She intrigued me.
00:32:00But did you find her sexually attractive, Mr. Gupta?
00:32:02Oh, come now.
00:32:04Surely part of the philosophy of the open box
00:32:06was that there should be honesty
00:32:08about one's desires
00:32:08that shame was irrelevant and crippling.
00:32:11I found her attractive.
00:32:13You wanted to go to bed with her?
00:32:14If I did, I would have to...
00:32:14Yes or no, Mr. Gupta?
00:32:16I wasn't the only one.
00:32:17He and Janine, they had sex often,
00:32:19and Megan with others I know, not me.
00:32:22Because I am.
00:32:23She laughed at me.
00:32:24Oh, she laughed at you too, did she?
00:32:25Yes, I told you all of them.
00:32:26They laughed at me.
00:32:27They teased me and mocked me.
00:32:29Did you ever try to make love
00:32:30to Miss Watts using force?
00:32:31She made me think that she wanted me,
00:32:35that she was my friend.
00:32:36Look, I suggest to you
00:32:37that you were only prevented from raping her
00:32:39in her bedroom by the intervention of Mr. Haywood
00:32:40and other members of the inner circle.
00:32:41That is not fair, sir, not fair.
00:32:43It was she.
00:32:43She made me.
00:32:44I did not know what I was doing.
00:32:45I put it to you that as a result of this incident
00:32:47you were asked to leave the open box.
00:32:48Yes, because they wanted to get rid of me.
00:32:50They wanted it because they were corrupted,
00:32:51and I knew it.
00:32:52I suggest, Mr. Gupta,
00:32:53that your entire motive
00:32:54for approaching Mr. Blower in the first place
00:32:55and subsequently for giving evidence in this case
00:32:57is simply and solely out of revenge.
00:32:59And I suggest that your emotions of revenge
00:33:01and self-pity
00:33:02must call your entire evidence seriously into question.
00:33:05I have no further questions, my lord.
00:33:09I think that Mr. Gupta
00:33:11has been through quite enough
00:33:12in the course of these proceedings.
00:33:14Shall we stand down, Mr. Gupta?
00:33:23That concludes the case for the defence, my lord.
00:33:26I call Martin Haywood.
00:33:28Would you take the stand, please?
00:33:29What is your religion?
00:33:37Church of the open box.
00:33:39I beg your pardon?
00:33:41Church of the open box, your honour.
00:33:43No, it's my lord, I'm sorry.
00:33:45The only god I believe in
00:33:46is the god revealed to me
00:33:47by the teachings of the open box, my lord.
00:33:50I confess I had no idea
00:33:52that you considered yourselves a church.
00:33:54No, I'm afraid I can't recognise the open box
00:33:58as a religion.
00:34:00You'll have to affirm.
00:34:02Please read aloud the words on this card.
00:34:05I do solemnly, sincerely and truly declare and affirm
00:34:08that the evidence I shall give
00:34:09shall be the truth, the whole truth
00:34:11and nothing but the truth.
00:34:12Well, you are Martin Haywood
00:34:13and you live at Chute Hall, Barnfield, near Fulchester.
00:34:16Quite right.
00:34:17And your age, Mr. Haywood?
00:34:1827.
00:34:19And your occupation?
00:34:20Secretary of the church of the open box.
00:34:21Yes, very well then.
00:34:22Let's deal with this aspect first.
00:34:24Have you always called yourselves a church?
00:34:26Well, no.
00:34:27We only started the other week, actually.
00:34:30But it's fair enough, isn't it?
00:34:31I mean, that's what we are.
00:34:33A group of people
00:34:34who share the same ideas about God.
00:34:35Yes, would you tell us
00:34:36what form of worship you adopt?
00:34:38It isn't a question of worship, really.
00:34:40She's not that kind of god.
00:34:41Um, she?
00:34:43Could be he.
00:34:45Doesn't really matter.
00:34:46The point is,
00:34:46it's not really worship,
00:34:47it's understanding.
00:34:49Yes, could you explain that to us, please?
00:34:51As simply as you can.
00:34:52That's easy.
00:34:53It is simple.
00:34:55We call whatever controls the world God.
00:34:57Right?
00:34:58The world looks to us both
00:35:00very ugly,
00:35:01very beautiful,
00:35:03very evil,
00:35:04very good,
00:35:05black and white.
00:35:06That's why we all dress in black
00:35:08and paint everything around us white.
00:35:10Looks great, as a matter of fact.
00:35:12Anyway,
00:35:13that's what our God is.
00:35:14Satan in Christ,
00:35:15in one, if you like.
00:35:17Now, to understand God,
00:35:19we feel that we have to understand ourselves,
00:35:21to understand all the evil
00:35:22and all the good.
00:35:24The more we understand,
00:35:25the more we acidize the bands around us,
00:35:27the closer we come to God,
00:35:28and consequently,
00:35:29the more control we have over our lives.
00:35:31The less we compromise and muddle,
00:35:33the less we fear.
00:35:35That's about the size of it.
00:35:37That's what our psychotherapy sessions
00:35:38are geared to.
00:35:39In fact,
00:35:39that's what everything at Tute Hall
00:35:41is all about.
00:35:42Well, thank you, Mr. Hayward.
00:35:43Oh, sorry, I forgot.
00:35:44Can I tell you what we hold
00:35:45to be the greatest virtue?
00:35:47Yes.
00:35:48Telling the truth.
00:35:50Sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt.
00:35:51I was going to say,
00:35:52elevation to the top floor.
00:35:54Inner circles, good.
00:35:56Ever since the article,
00:35:57we've used that.
00:35:59I'm sorry, I'm interrupting again.
00:36:00Elevation to the inner circle, then,
00:36:03is dependent on achieving
00:36:04a certain level of understanding
00:36:06of yourself and of your God.
00:36:08That's it.
00:36:08And at the very top
00:36:09of the What Sisters.
00:36:10That's right.
00:36:11Now, Mr. Blower referred to them
00:36:13as having achieved
00:36:13a total identification with God.
00:36:16Yes, well, they died, you see.
00:36:20Yes, could you elaborate
00:36:21on that, please?
00:36:22Could I elaborate?
00:36:23I think so.
00:36:25Well, like a lot of twin sisters,
00:36:27they shared illnesses and things.
00:36:29Then, aged about 15,
00:36:31they both got appendicitis.
00:36:33Acute.
00:36:34Rushed to hospital,
00:36:35both operated on,
00:36:35both died.
00:36:37For several minutes,
00:36:37they were effectively dead.
00:36:39I mean, the doctor
00:36:40actually pronounced them dead.
00:36:41It's in some medical history book.
00:36:45Anyway, the point is,
00:36:46they've progressed a lot farther
00:36:48than any of us.
00:36:49They've showed us all the way,
00:36:50and that's why we offer them respect.
00:36:53And during the three and a half years
00:36:55of its existence,
00:36:56how many people have attended courses
00:36:58at the open box?
00:36:59Christ, I can't remember exactly.
00:37:00But it's about 700, 800.
00:37:03What do you offer them?
00:37:05We don't offer anything.
00:37:06We're just there.
00:37:07If people need us,
00:37:08they find us.
00:37:09What do they get from you?
00:37:10Strengths in exchange for confusion.
00:37:12All of them?
00:37:13Oh, no.
00:37:14Most of them.
00:37:16Mr Hayward,
00:37:17is the open box
00:37:18a profit-making organisation?
00:37:19No, we're a trust.
00:37:20Non-profit distributing.
00:37:22And are your accounts
00:37:23returned to Her Majesty's tax inspectors
00:37:24and agreed each year
00:37:25in the same way
00:37:26as any other institution?
00:37:27Yes.
00:37:28Have you ever encountered
00:37:29any problem with the tax inspectors?
00:37:30No.
00:37:31There's no disagreements,
00:37:32no threats of legal action?
00:37:33Never.
00:37:34It has always been
00:37:34a simple, clear-cut agreement.
00:37:36Right.
00:37:37Now, Mr Blower has testified
00:37:39that when discussing
00:37:40a donation from him
00:37:41to the movement's funds,
00:37:42you ask him to make it in cash.
00:37:43Is this true?
00:37:44Of course not.
00:37:44I never said anything of the kind.
00:37:46Oh, you're a bloody liar.
00:37:47Mr Blower,
00:37:48I'm sorry, my lord,
00:37:49but...
00:37:49Listen, even if we were bent,
00:37:51would I say something like that
00:37:52to a total stranger?
00:37:53I ask you.
00:37:54So you deny it?
00:37:55Utterly.
00:37:57Now, thank you.
00:37:58Would you tell the jury
00:37:59about your relationship
00:38:00with Mr Gupta?
00:38:02In what way?
00:38:03Well, did you like him?
00:38:04Oh, everyone liked Gappy,
00:38:06I should say.
00:38:06Self-pity and all.
00:38:09It's just a story
00:38:11with a bad ending.
00:38:12Hey, Gappy?
00:38:13Mr Haywood, please.
00:38:14Sorry.
00:38:15Would you tell us why
00:38:15you think the story
00:38:16ended badly?
00:38:17Sure, it was our fault.
00:38:19Yours?
00:38:20He should never have been invited
00:38:21to join the inner circle.
00:38:23Why not?
00:38:24We thought he was ready
00:38:26and he wasn't.
00:38:28He'd made enormous progress,
00:38:30you see,
00:38:30but turned out to be
00:38:32certain areas
00:38:33where he was still in shadow,
00:38:35still very reliant
00:38:36on other people's strength.
00:38:37You know what I mean?
00:38:38He desperately needed
00:38:39to feel accepted
00:38:41to belong.
00:38:44He began to imagine
00:38:45that we were all
00:38:46talking about him
00:38:46behind his back,
00:38:47taking decisions without him.
00:38:49It all became very heavy.
00:38:50He suffered a bad regression,
00:38:52if you know what I mean.
00:38:53I think so, yes.
00:38:56Now, would you tell us
00:38:57what happened on the night
00:38:58of November the 3rd, 1971?
00:39:01Christ, I can't remember.
00:39:02Mr Haywood,
00:39:03that's the second time
00:39:04you've used that word.
00:39:05Never again, my lord.
00:39:06I'm very sorry
00:39:06to have given offence.
00:39:07Mr Haywood,
00:39:08November the 3rd, 1971.
00:39:12Oh, yes,
00:39:13that's when Guppy
00:39:13tried to rape Megan.
00:39:14Yeah, my lord.
00:39:15Mr Haywood,
00:39:15would you please
00:39:16just tell us
00:39:17what you actually saw?
00:39:18Well,
00:39:19we heard what we took
00:39:21to be Guppy's raised voice
00:39:23coming from Megan's room.
00:39:25We?
00:39:26Janine and me.
00:39:27Aye.
00:39:27So we went in there.
00:39:30We had to
00:39:31pull Guppy off her.
00:39:34I hope I've given no offence.
00:39:36Did you form the impression
00:39:37that Mr Gupta
00:39:38was trying to rape Miss Wads?
00:39:40Yeah,
00:39:41we formed that impression.
00:39:43As a result of this incident,
00:39:44what did you do?
00:39:45Well, that was the end, really.
00:39:46He couldn't stay with us
00:39:47any longer.
00:39:48We told him that
00:39:49for his own sake
00:39:50he'd better start again
00:39:50from the very beginning.
00:39:51You told him, in effect,
00:39:52that he was being demoted
00:39:54from the inner circle?
00:39:55If you like.
00:39:56And what happened?
00:39:57He cut his wrist that night,
00:39:59didn't he?
00:39:59Silly old Guppy.
00:40:01We had to rush him to hospital.
00:40:03Like I said,
00:40:03it's a story with a bad ending.
00:40:12Mr Haywood,
00:40:21you've been a disciple
00:40:22of the open box now for,
00:40:24well, since its inception,
00:40:25am I right?
00:40:26You are.
00:40:27Do you feel you're a happier man now
00:40:29than you were
00:40:29three and a half years ago?
00:40:31Happier, stronger,
00:40:32more alive,
00:40:33richer in every way,
00:40:35except financially,
00:40:36of course.
00:40:36You say that the open box
00:40:38holds truth
00:40:39to be the greatest virtue.
00:40:40Right.
00:40:41Is that the same as saying
00:40:42honesty is the best policy?
00:40:44Oh, oui.
00:40:45That's a bit Machiavellian for me.
00:40:47I don't know.
00:40:48All right.
00:40:49Did you call yourself a church
00:40:51very recently
00:40:52because you thought
00:40:53it might impress the jury
00:40:54in this case?
00:40:56Yeah.
00:40:56We guessed it might go down
00:40:58quite well.
00:40:59Good.
00:40:59That's very honest.
00:41:02Was one of your chief reasons
00:41:03for bringing this case at all
00:41:04the hope of getting
00:41:05money in damages?
00:41:07Sure, we need the stuff.
00:41:08Besides, we've been
00:41:10defamed.
00:41:12Great opportunity
00:41:13to help pay off the mortgage.
00:41:15And the publicity.
00:41:16You like the publicity
00:41:17which this case is attracting?
00:41:19Love it.
00:41:20Yes, yes.
00:41:21You're being conspicuously
00:41:22frank with this, aren't you?
00:41:24Do you think you could tell
00:41:25the difference, Mr. Hayward,
00:41:27between real honesty
00:41:28and apparent honesty?
00:41:30What do you mean?
00:41:31Well, by apparent honesty,
00:41:32I mean when someone
00:41:33is prepared to admit
00:41:34to small faults
00:41:35so that his denial
00:41:37of major ones
00:41:37will be believed.
00:41:39Do you think you could,
00:41:41as a leader
00:41:41of an organisation
00:41:43professing truth
00:41:44to be the greatest virtue,
00:41:45you could tell the difference
00:41:46between that
00:41:47and real honesty?
00:41:48I can tell the difference.
00:41:50Yes, I have no doubt
00:41:50the jury can as well,
00:41:52Mr. Hayward.
00:41:52Now, turning to Mr. Blower's article.
00:41:57Do you dispute the accuracy
00:41:58of his factual descriptions
00:42:00as well as his conclusions?
00:42:02Not as far as I remember.
00:42:03Good bit of reporting, I thought.
00:42:05Eloquent, crisp, witty.
00:42:07You admit then
00:42:08that your own resident psychiatrist
00:42:09has been struck off
00:42:10by the British Medical Association?
00:42:12Nutty is a fruitcake.
00:42:13He's the first to say so.
00:42:14Good psychiatrist, mind you.
00:42:16Mr. Hayward,
00:42:16I think I should point out
00:42:17that flippancy in no way
00:42:18helps your cause.
00:42:19My lord, I had no intention
00:42:20of being flippant.
00:42:21I humbly apologise.
00:42:23Do you also admit
00:42:23that children have taken part
00:42:25in these psychotherapy sessions?
00:42:27Yes, I admit that.
00:42:28Sessions which the jury
00:42:29have heard Dr. Gibbons
00:42:30describe as dangerous
00:42:32for unstable or immature people.
00:42:35Sessions that you hold
00:42:36without the help
00:42:38of a competent psychiatrist?
00:42:40Conventional psychiatry
00:42:41is irrelevant to us.
00:42:43By the way,
00:42:44what Tony forgot to say
00:42:45in his article
00:42:45is that children
00:42:46are only allowed
00:42:47to take part
00:42:47at the insistence,
00:42:49not permission,
00:42:49insistence of their parents.
00:42:51Oh, is that because
00:42:52you consider that
00:42:53the sessions are dangerous?
00:42:54We just don't want
00:42:55any legal hassles.
00:42:56Do you dispute
00:42:57Mr. Blower's use
00:42:58of the word hysteria
00:42:59in describing these sessions?
00:43:01Hysteria can be
00:43:01a very constructive
00:43:02form of release.
00:43:04His use of the word sadism?
00:43:06To an outsider,
00:43:07it might look that way.
00:43:08The atmosphere of fear
00:43:09and repression
00:43:10amongst the residents?
00:43:12I would say
00:43:13intensity would be
00:43:14a better word.
00:43:16Enforced sexual abstinence,
00:43:18even among married couples.
00:43:19Would you call that healthy?
00:43:21People choose
00:43:22to come to us.
00:43:23They can leave
00:43:23whenever they like.
00:43:25You have a sexual relationship,
00:43:27do you not,
00:43:27with Janine Watts?
00:43:29Sometimes.
00:43:29What do you mean?
00:43:30When she wants it.
00:43:31You mean it's her choice?
00:43:32Oh, yes.
00:43:33So it's one rule
00:43:34for the rich
00:43:34and another for the poor.
00:43:36Sex is perfectly permissible
00:43:37amongst the members
00:43:38of the inner circle,
00:43:39but not amongst
00:43:40the hoi polloi downstairs.
00:43:41All of us
00:43:42at the open box
00:43:43are trying to work out
00:43:44something important
00:43:45about ourselves,
00:43:46our lives.
00:43:47We happen to believe
00:43:48that until people
00:43:48have found themselves,
00:43:50their strength,
00:43:51it's better for all
00:43:52irrelevancies
00:43:53to be excluded.
00:43:58You say that in three years
00:44:00something like 800 people
00:44:02have attended your courses,
00:44:03do you?
00:44:04Just a bite.
00:44:05How many of those
00:44:06have committed suicide
00:44:07or tried to do so?
00:44:09Why not ask me
00:44:10how many broke their legs
00:44:11or fell under buses?
00:44:12Well, perhaps you could
00:44:13tell us then
00:44:13how many suicide attempts
00:44:15there have been
00:44:16amongst your residential
00:44:17members at Chute Hall
00:44:19while you've been there.
00:44:20I'm sure you've checked
00:44:21with the hospitals
00:44:22you tell us.
00:44:22Five, Mr. Hayward.
00:44:24Five people
00:44:25in two years.
00:44:28And that doesn't include
00:44:29the attempts
00:44:30that haven't reached
00:44:31the hospital
00:44:31or those cases in London
00:44:33before you came
00:44:34to Chute Hall.
00:44:35In addition,
00:44:36there have been
00:44:37three nervous breakdowns
00:44:40among residents
00:44:41of your Chute Hall.
00:44:43These are just
00:44:43the documented cases,
00:44:45Mr. Hayward.
00:44:45In all probability,
00:44:46just the tip of an iceberg.
00:44:48These people had problems
00:44:49before they came to us
00:44:50like Guppy.
00:44:51You can't lay these
00:44:52at our feet.
00:44:53Can't I?
00:44:55You still maintain
00:44:56that what you practice
00:44:57does not cause harm.
00:44:59Life is dangerous.
00:45:00Playing football is dangerous
00:45:01or buying a ticket
00:45:02for the underground.
00:45:03There's an element
00:45:03of risk in everything.
00:45:05For most of our residents,
00:45:07we provide something positive.
00:45:08We wouldn't attract
00:45:09so many if we didn't,
00:45:09would we?
00:45:10Oh, the world is full
00:45:11of gullible people,
00:45:12Mr. Hayward,
00:45:13as I'm quite sure
00:45:14the jury knows.
00:45:16You say your accounts
00:45:17have always been
00:45:18amicably agreed
00:45:19with the tax inspectors?
00:45:21You've seen them,
00:45:22haven't you?
00:45:23What was your job
00:45:24before you became
00:45:24caught up with the open box?
00:45:26Chartered accountant.
00:45:27You were a fully qualified
00:45:29chartered accountant,
00:45:30were you?
00:45:30It was as awful
00:45:31as you make it seem.
00:45:32Are you the accountant
00:45:33now for the open box?
00:45:34It's one of my jobs.
00:45:35Then you could tell us
00:45:36what your income was
00:45:37in the last tax year,
00:45:39couldn't you?
00:45:39Shall we take the courses
00:45:40first of all, please?
00:45:42They cost about
00:45:43£4 per person
00:45:44per session,
00:45:45am I right?
00:45:46Just about.
00:45:47And £35 for a weekend.
00:45:51That seems exorbitantly expensive.
00:45:53So is everything.
00:45:55What was your income
00:45:55on this account
00:45:56for the last financial year?
00:45:58£39,000 or so.
00:46:01Is that all?
00:46:02There's so many people
00:46:03taking courses,
00:46:04that seems a very low figure,
00:46:05Mr Hayward.
00:46:07What was your income
00:46:08then from donations?
00:46:10£27,000.
00:46:12So you admit
00:46:13to an income
00:46:14of £66,000
00:46:16and still you are not able
00:46:17to make a profit.
00:46:18How?
00:46:19The house costs £90,000.
00:46:21There's a price spiral,
00:46:22didn't you know?
00:46:23You have to pay for that
00:46:24in its upkeep.
00:46:25Feed and clothe
00:46:2630 people,
00:46:27also visitors
00:46:27for weekend courses.
00:46:28Then there's
00:46:29the coffee bar,
00:46:30stationery
00:46:31and producing a magazine.
00:46:32It's not cheap.
00:46:33Ah, this magazine.
00:46:34How often does it come out?
00:46:35Weekly?
00:46:36No.
00:46:37Monthly?
00:46:38No.
00:46:38Quarterly then?
00:46:40It varies.
00:46:41How many issues
00:46:42of this magazine
00:46:43have there been
00:46:43in the last 12 months?
00:46:45Two, I think.
00:46:46Two.
00:46:46But it's an expensive thing.
00:46:48Colour photographs,
00:46:49good paper,
00:46:50distributed free.
00:46:51There are also
00:46:52other expenses
00:46:53to do with fundraising
00:46:54and trying to open
00:46:55new open-box centres.
00:46:56Have you actually
00:46:57opened a new centre?
00:46:59No.
00:47:00You still haven't?
00:47:01There are problems
00:47:02of personnel.
00:47:04Mr Hayward,
00:47:05would you say
00:47:06from your experience
00:47:07as an accountant
00:47:07that so-called expenses
00:47:09for foreign trips,
00:47:11promotions, etc.,
00:47:12are an item
00:47:12that it is notoriously
00:47:13easy to manipulate
00:47:15when you're drawing up
00:47:17your accounts?
00:47:17I am speaking generally,
00:47:18you understand.
00:47:20Have you ever
00:47:21encountered this practice,
00:47:22things like it?
00:47:23It happens, yes.
00:47:24But not?
00:47:24Not at the open box?
00:47:26No.
00:47:26No.
00:47:27This figure of
00:47:28£27,000 in donations,
00:47:30you always gave receipts,
00:47:32I presume?
00:47:32Always.
00:47:33We tried to.
00:47:34Did you give a receipt
00:47:35to Mr Blower
00:47:36for the £50 that he paid
00:47:37to you?
00:47:38He paid by cheque.
00:47:39That's its own receipt.
00:47:41Would you agree,
00:47:42again speaking generally
00:47:43from your experience
00:47:44as an accountant,
00:47:45that it is at least
00:47:46possible where cash
00:47:48donations are concerned
00:47:49to hide these
00:47:50on your tax returns?
00:47:52Hmm.
00:47:52I expect you've come across
00:47:54evasions in your times
00:47:56too, haven't you?
00:47:57Involving foreign bank
00:47:58accounts,
00:47:59that sort of thing.
00:48:00But no such practices
00:48:02ever occur
00:48:03at the open box.
00:48:04No.
00:48:05Just as you deny
00:48:06manipulating expenses.
00:48:07I do.
00:48:08And you deny hiding
00:48:09your true income
00:48:10from sessions and courses.
00:48:12We're not asking you
00:48:13to like us,
00:48:14but just think,
00:48:15if we were bent,
00:48:15would I be stupid enough
00:48:16to bring this case?
00:48:18Arrogant enough,
00:48:19certainly.
00:48:20And if you hadn't brought it,
00:48:22wouldn't everyone
00:48:23have automatically assumed
00:48:24that you were,
00:48:25in your own word,
00:48:26bent?
00:48:49The case of Martin Haywood
00:48:51against Anthony Blower
00:48:52and Nation News Limited
00:48:54will be resumed tomorrow
00:48:55in the Crown Court.
00:49:06In a libel case
00:49:07at Fullchester Crown Court,
00:49:09counsel for the defendant,
00:49:10Tony Blower,
00:49:11of the Sunday Nation,
00:49:12has pleaded that the article
00:49:14he wrote about a cult
00:49:15known as the Open Box,
00:49:17alleging that it was both
00:49:18harmful and fraudulent,
00:49:19is true.
00:49:21Counsel for the plaintiff,
00:49:22Martin Haywood,
00:49:23secretary of the Open Box,
00:49:24has called his second witness
00:49:26Mrs. Barbara Peacock.
00:49:27The Open Box,
00:49:28The Open Box,
00:49:30The Open Box,
00:49:30I shall give you the truth.
00:49:50You are Mrs. Barbara Peacock of 64 Ashley Gardens, Fulchester.
00:49:56That's right.
00:49:57Mrs. Peacock, are you involved with the open box movement?
00:49:59Oh, definitely I am, sir. I've been attending courses going on for a year now.
00:50:03And do you feel that you have benefited?
00:50:06Well, certainly. I'm a much stronger person than I was a year ago.
00:50:09I'm not frightened like I was, not at all.
00:50:11And what is it about the teaching of the open box that particularly helped you, would you say?
00:50:15Well, the whole thing, really.
00:50:18I mean, it makes sense.
00:50:19They teach you to look life in the eye and get it off your chest.
00:50:22Do you know what I mean?
00:50:23Well, it's hard to describe it, really.
00:50:26I mean, I know it sounds daft, all those insult sessions and that.
00:50:30But if you try it, it really makes sense.
00:50:33At least it's helped me, that I can say.
00:50:35You say that a year ago, before you encountered the open box, you were frightened of life?
00:50:39Oh, yes. I was in a terrible state.
00:50:41Why was that?
00:50:43Well, everything had gone wrong.
00:50:44Ronnie had left me.
00:50:45Ronnie's your husband?
00:50:46That's right.
00:50:47Why did he leave you?
00:50:49Well, because of that great rumpus I was involved in over the Pentecostals.
00:50:52Yes, could you tell us exactly what he's meant by Pentecostal, Mrs. Beacock?
00:50:56Well, it's a new religious revival movement.
00:51:00The gift of the Holy Spirit, they call it.
00:51:02Speaking in tongues.
00:51:03And how did the Pentecostal movement come between you and your husband?
00:51:07Oh, my lord, is this at all relevant?
00:51:09Surely we are concerned with the open box, not the Pentecostals.
00:51:11I was certainly beginning to wonder myself, Mr. Logan.
00:51:14Well, my lord, in order to demonstrate what effect the open box had on Mrs. Beacock,
00:51:17in my submission, it is necessary to establish precisely the state of mind she was reduced to a year ago.
00:51:23Very well.
00:51:24Yes, Mrs. Beacock?
00:51:25Well, Ronnie and I had always been churchgoers.
00:51:29He was a sidesman at the parish church, and I was on the committee.
00:51:32About three years ago, we got a new vicar, the Reverend Thin.
00:51:36Thin?
00:51:36Two ends.
00:51:38Ah.
00:51:38Well, it turned out he was Pentecostal.
00:51:40Well, Ronnie wouldn't have anything to do with that sort of thing.
00:51:43But you were interested?
00:51:44Well, I was a bit suspicious at first, but I went along to one of the prayer meetings out of curiosity, really.
00:51:49It was, yes, it was one of the most exciting experiences of my life.
00:51:57Everyone was so happy.
00:51:58It was beautiful.
00:52:00And did you receive the gift of the Holy Spirit, Mrs. Peacock?
00:52:03Did you speak in tongues?
00:52:06Not at once, sir, no.
00:52:08Well, not for a long time, but the Reverend Thin, he told me to be patient,
00:52:12and one day it would happen, and it did in the end.
00:52:15Can you describe the experience?
00:52:16Well, it was sounds my tongue was making, beautiful sounds, sounds of joy.
00:52:25It was not a language that I knew or could understand, but it was the language of God's love.
00:52:32Well, I can't describe it.
00:52:33Would you tell us what happened after that?
00:52:35Oh, a whole lot of things.
00:52:36The parish was in a turmoil.
00:52:38It was split right down the middle, those for the Reverend Thin and those against him.
00:52:42Well, in the end, he decided to resign, and we, his followers,
00:52:45we wanted him to stay and work amongst us.
00:52:48And that's when your husband left you?
00:52:51I left him.
00:52:53I still loved him.
00:52:54I didn't want to upset him, but I had to do it.
00:52:57Did you regret the decision?
00:52:58Not at the time, no.
00:53:01Oh, it was a wonderful time.
00:53:03In the evening, we used to have prayer meetings.
00:53:05People would come to us, and we'd talk and pray,
00:53:08and the Reverend Thin would heal.
00:53:10Well, no, miracle miracles, if you know what I mean.
00:53:13He didn't do broken legs or hunchbacks or anything like that.
00:53:17Just migraine and arthritis and lumbar, things of that sort, and mental conditions.
00:53:22He could cast out evil spirits.
00:53:25Looking back, I understand.
00:53:26Do you see why I made such a fool of myself?
00:53:28What led you to think that you were making a fool of yourself, Mrs Peacock?
00:53:31Well, it was a challenge.
00:53:36Some of us had read about some people in Canada
00:53:38who could handle deadly poisonous snakes
00:53:40because they said that God protected them.
00:53:43Well, as I've said, we thought nothing in the world could hurt us.
00:53:47And it was like a challenge.
00:53:49We wanted to show that God was in us
00:53:51and that God's love would protect us from anything.
00:53:55Philip.
00:53:56Philip?
00:53:57Well, he was one of the group.
00:53:58He had a sort of mission to try this.
00:54:01He wanted to drink strychnine, but we said no.
00:54:04Well, it's in the Bible.
00:54:05Honestly, it's all in the Bible.
00:54:06It's in St Mark.
00:54:07They should take up serpents,
00:54:08and if they drink any deadly thing, it will not hurt them.
00:54:14Well, it seems so silly now.
00:54:16Well, go on, Mrs Peacock.
00:54:19Well, they asked me to buy a snake.
00:54:23I went to the pet shop.
00:54:25I bought a puff adder.
00:54:27I brought it home in a box with little air holes in the lid.
00:54:30I took it on the bus.
00:54:32There were a few people at the house that night,
00:54:34and...
00:54:34Philip.
00:54:37What happened?
00:54:39Oh, he died, that's all.
00:54:41He just died.
00:54:43A snake bit him and he died.
00:54:46Mrs Peacock, do you mean to say that you were able
00:54:47simply to walk into a pet shop
00:54:49and come away with one of these deadly things?
00:54:52Yes, my lord.
00:54:53There was no licence required?
00:54:55No one.
00:54:57Good heavens.
00:54:58And how would you describe the effect
00:55:00all this had on you, Mrs Peacock?
00:55:02A nervous breakdown, they called it.
00:55:04Did you undergo psychiatric treatment?
00:55:06Yes, sir.
00:55:07Did it help?
00:55:07No.
00:55:08And was it at this time
00:55:09that you encountered the open box?
00:55:11I went into their coffee bar one morning in Fulchester.
00:55:15I've been going ever since
00:55:15for evening classes and weekend courses.
00:55:18It was like a second home.
00:55:20And you feel it really has helped you?
00:55:22Oh, yes.
00:55:23I'm not frightened like I was, not at all.
00:55:25And life's exciting again.
00:55:28Thank you, Mrs Peacock.
00:55:30Mrs Peacock,
00:55:31don't you think it's a little unfair
00:55:33to blame the Pentecostal movement
00:55:35for your breakdown?
00:55:36Well, it didn't do me much good, did it?
00:55:39Have you ever made a donation
00:55:41to the open box funds?
00:55:43No.
00:55:44Are you worried then
00:55:45about what they might do with the money?
00:55:46Well, I don't concern myself with that.
00:55:49Why have you never become
00:55:50a residential member at Chute Hall?
00:55:52I don't want to.
00:55:53You didn't want to involve yourself
00:55:55to that extent, is that it?
00:55:57For me, it's better this way.
00:55:59Yes, thank you, Mrs Peacock.
00:56:05Miss Watts, can you tell us
00:56:07when you first arrived
00:56:08at the ideas embodied
00:56:09in the teachings
00:56:10of the open box movement?
00:56:12Not exactly, no.
00:56:13Well, then approximately
00:56:14how it all took shape.
00:56:18Tell us about your background
00:56:19in California then.
00:56:20Your father, what did he do?
00:56:23Our father.
00:56:26Miss Watts, I wonder
00:56:27if you would be so good
00:56:28as to speak a little louder.
00:56:29The jury may find it hard to hear you.
00:56:31Our father was a priest.
00:56:34Orthodox?
00:56:34Not at all.
00:56:35I meant of an orthodox denomination.
00:56:37Presbyterian.
00:56:39And did you and your sister
00:56:39attend a church school?
00:56:41We were taught by our mother.
00:56:43Did you mix a lot
00:56:44with children your own age?
00:56:45We had no wish to.
00:56:47Tell us about this incident
00:56:49on the operating table,
00:56:50Miss Watts,
00:56:50when you died.
00:56:53For six minutes, I think.
00:56:54Yeah.
00:56:55Was this the starting point
00:56:57of your beliefs?
00:56:58I'm afraid I don't understand
00:56:59what you're talking about.
00:57:00Well, other people
00:57:01who have had such an experience
00:57:02report a vision
00:57:03are able, as it were,
00:57:04to describe a perception
00:57:05of the life after death.
00:57:07Did this happen to you?
00:57:08We understood a fusion.
00:57:11Of what?
00:57:11Of colour.
00:57:13Of joy and pain.
00:57:15Of good and evil.
00:57:16It was a clarity.
00:57:19Do you regard yourself
00:57:20in a way as having,
00:57:20what shall we say,
00:57:21a mission, Miss Watts?
00:57:24No.
00:57:25But you do want to help people.
00:57:26We are here.
00:57:28If people want us,
00:57:29they come to us.
00:57:30That's their reality.
00:57:32Yes, Miss Watts,
00:57:32the defendant, Mr Blower,
00:57:34has testified that
00:57:34whilst trying to gain access
00:57:35to your private apartment
00:57:36on the top floor
00:57:37at Chute Hall,
00:57:38he overheard part
00:57:39of a telephone conversation.
00:57:40Do you recall this incident?
00:57:41Yeah.
00:57:41Would you tell us about it, please?
00:57:43Martin took the call.
00:57:44He said that it was
00:57:45my sister calling from Zurich.
00:57:47She was there
00:57:48to negotiate
00:57:48a business transaction.
00:57:50A what transaction, exactly?
00:57:52We were negotiating
00:57:53to buy some new property
00:57:54to start a new open-box centre.
00:57:56And did you tell her
00:57:57that you had received confirmation
00:57:58that your accounts
00:57:59had been agreed
00:58:00by the tax inspector?
00:58:01Yeah.
00:58:02Why was this relevant?
00:58:03We decided that
00:58:04we wouldn't go ahead
00:58:05unless they had been agreed.
00:58:07Now she could make an offer.
00:58:08It's nothing very complicated.
00:58:10Now, Miss Watts,
00:58:11did Mr Gupta
00:58:12try to rape you?
00:58:13Rape is a legal word.
00:58:15He wanted sex.
00:58:17It was a solo decision.
00:58:19Meaning that you didn't want it?
00:58:21He had a right to fight
00:58:22for what he wanted.
00:58:23But he should have known
00:58:24it was auto-destructive.
00:58:26And was he humiliated
00:58:27by your rebuff,
00:58:28would you say?
00:58:29Yeah.
00:58:30I guess it was
00:58:31what you might call
00:58:32the last straw.
00:58:33He'd lost all strength
00:58:34by then.
00:58:36We were his friends.
00:58:38If you were his friends,
00:58:39why do you think
00:58:40he's turned against you now?
00:58:41Oh, he wanted us
00:58:42to be more than friends.
00:58:44He wanted us
00:58:45to be mother and father,
00:58:47God and country,
00:58:48the whole damn thing.
00:58:50We said no.
00:58:52We said that he had
00:58:53to live his own life.
00:58:55We thought we could help him,
00:58:56but he had to live it.
00:58:59That's why he hates us now.
00:59:02Because we wouldn't
00:59:03live his life for him.
00:59:05That's why he's telling
00:59:06all these lies against us.
00:59:07Miss Watts,
00:59:24that's a very striking creation
00:59:26you're wearing.
00:59:27I wonder if you would
00:59:28be good enough
00:59:29to step into the well
00:59:30of the court
00:59:30so that the jury
00:59:32can look at it
00:59:33in its entirety.
00:59:35With your lordship's
00:59:36permission, of course.
00:59:36Is Miss Watts' attire
00:59:38relevant evidence,
00:59:39Mr. Hardson?
00:59:40If you will bear with me
00:59:41a moment, my lord.
00:59:43Very well.
00:59:44Please do as council asks,
00:59:45Miss Watts.
00:59:49You will oblige me,
00:59:51Miss Watts,
00:59:51if you will do
00:59:51as council asks.
00:59:52Thank you, Miss Watts.
01:00:10Do you always dress
01:00:12in black and white?
01:00:13Yeah.
01:00:14And yet other members
01:00:15of your cult
01:00:15all have to dress
01:00:16in black only.
01:00:17Why is that?
01:00:18We are the fusion.
01:00:20The fusion?
01:00:21The assimilation
01:00:22of extremes.
01:00:24Well, I hope
01:00:24the jury understand
01:00:25that much better
01:00:26than I do.
01:00:27Those who can understand
01:00:28will understand.
01:00:30This business
01:00:30of your supposed death,
01:00:32are you aware
01:00:32that most people
01:00:33would claim
01:00:34that neither you
01:00:35nor your sister
01:00:36really did die
01:00:38in the true sense
01:00:39of the word?
01:00:42Miss Watts?
01:00:42Oh, I'm sorry.
01:00:44I thought you were
01:00:44telling me something.
01:00:45What do you want me to say?
01:00:46Are you aware of this?
01:00:47I'm aware
01:00:48that the doctors present
01:00:49at the time
01:00:50certified that we died
01:00:51for six minutes.
01:00:54Miss Watts,
01:00:54when you were in California,
01:00:56were there a lot of cults
01:00:57practicing there?
01:00:59What do you mean by cults?
01:01:00Groups not dissimilar
01:01:01to the open box.
01:01:03I refer to
01:01:04the process,
01:01:05the family,
01:01:06lunologists,
01:01:07emologists,
01:01:09sons of Satan.
01:01:10These were in no way
01:01:11like the open box.
01:01:12But the ground
01:01:13had been pretty well
01:01:13worked over,
01:01:14I should imagine.
01:01:15Was that one reason
01:01:16for coming to London
01:01:16because there'd be
01:01:17less competition?
01:01:19Nope.
01:01:21What is your married name,
01:01:22Miss Watts?
01:01:25Crutwell.
01:01:27And when did you get married?
01:01:28Approximately three months
01:01:29after I came to this country.
01:01:30Would you tell the jury
01:01:31how long you and your husband
01:01:32lived together?
01:01:33We met at the wedding.
01:01:34I've never seen him since.
01:01:36Why was that?
01:01:37I needed to get married
01:01:38to stay in this country.
01:01:40He was found for me.
01:01:41He agreed.
01:01:42Nobody got hurt.
01:01:43I married a passport,
01:01:45that's all.
01:01:45You're divorced now?
01:01:47Uh, yeah.
01:01:48Yeah, I think so.
01:01:50This telephone conversation
01:01:51with your sister
01:01:52that Mr Blower overheard,
01:01:54did you say,
01:01:55referring to the agreement
01:01:56with the tax inspectors,
01:01:57we're in the clear
01:01:58on that score?
01:02:00Yeah, probably.
01:02:00It sounds as if
01:02:01you were very relieved
01:02:02that agreement had been reached.
01:02:04Yeah, sure.
01:02:04Why should you have been relieved?
01:02:06Hmm?
01:02:07If you were confident
01:02:08that your tax returns
01:02:09were accurate and honest,
01:02:11why on earth
01:02:12should you be relieved?
01:02:14I mean,
01:02:14isn't unsettling anything
01:02:16a relief?
01:02:17I mean,
01:02:17taking a decision,
01:02:18that's a big relief.
01:02:19Do you know anybody
01:02:20who wasn't delighted
01:02:21when their tax returns
01:02:22were okay?
01:02:23Do you?
01:02:24Where's your sister now?
01:02:25Abroad.
01:02:27Negotiating to start
01:02:28a new centre?
01:02:29Meeting people
01:02:29who had written to us,
01:02:30raising funds,
01:02:31that sort of thing.
01:02:32Oh, yes, yes.
01:02:33Now, you and your sister
01:02:34are identical
01:02:35in every way,
01:02:36are you?
01:02:36No, not in every way.
01:02:38Oh, in what way
01:02:39would you say
01:02:39you're different?
01:02:40She's pleasure-orientated
01:02:42and I'm power-orientated.
01:02:44Isn't power
01:02:45a kind of pleasure?
01:02:46I meant physical,
01:02:48sensual pleasure.
01:02:49Sex?
01:02:49Yeah.
01:02:50And you're not?
01:02:50No.
01:02:51You don't like sex?
01:02:52It's irrelevant
01:02:53to me and to my work.
01:02:54Are you a virgin,
01:02:55Miss Watts?
01:02:55Oh, my lord,
01:02:56this seems quite unnecessary.
01:02:57I think, my lord,
01:02:58if you will bear with me,
01:02:59I'm leading to an important...
01:03:00I have no objection.
01:03:02Well, I think that settles it.
01:03:03Besides, it's clearly relevant
01:03:04to the question
01:03:05of the alleged rape.
01:03:07No, I'm not a virgin.
01:03:09I have had sex
01:03:10from time to time
01:03:11and I expect
01:03:12that I shall go on
01:03:13having sex
01:03:14from time to time.
01:03:15I have no desire
01:03:16to shut any
01:03:17of life's doors.
01:03:19Did Mr. Gupta know
01:03:19that you had
01:03:20sexual experience?
01:03:22Yeah, well, I didn't.
01:03:23On the occasion
01:03:24of his alleged
01:03:25assault on you,
01:03:27had you invited him
01:03:28into your room?
01:03:30Yeah.
01:03:30Why?
01:03:31I felt that he needed
01:03:32a chance to talk
01:03:34about himself.
01:03:34He needed strength.
01:03:36Your strength?
01:03:37Yes, sure.
01:03:38Where were you
01:03:38when he came in?
01:03:39In my bed.
01:03:40In bed?
01:03:42Yeah.
01:03:43It's a very good place
01:03:43to talk from.
01:03:44I often talk to people
01:03:45from my bed.
01:03:46What were you wearing
01:03:47when Mr. Gupta came in?
01:03:49Wearing?
01:03:50Yes, that's right.
01:03:52Gee, I don't know.
01:03:54A shirt, maybe?
01:03:55Maybe nothing.
01:03:57Am I right?
01:03:58It's possible.
01:03:59It was a hot day.
01:04:00And you deliberately
01:04:01led Mr. Gupta on,
01:04:02didn't you?
01:04:03You excited him unbearably.
01:04:05My Lord, I must protest again.
01:04:06My learned friend
01:04:07has attempted to dismiss
01:04:08Mr. Gupta's evidence,
01:04:09my Lord,
01:04:10on the highly dubious grounds
01:04:12that Mr. Gupta
01:04:12is an embittered reject.
01:04:14Yes, I'd like to hear
01:04:15Miss Watts' answer to this.
01:04:17My answer?
01:04:18My answer is that I deny it.
01:04:20Why should I want to tease Guppy?
01:04:23Now that's ridiculous.
01:04:24Would you tell us then
01:04:25why you didn't bring
01:04:25a rape charge?
01:04:26Guppy needs help
01:04:27that the law cannot give.
01:04:28Miss Watts,
01:04:29you did not call the police
01:04:31because you knew
01:04:32that a rape charge
01:04:33wouldn't hold,
01:04:34didn't you?
01:04:35You deliberately
01:04:35and sadistically
01:04:36set the whole incident up
01:04:37to bring on
01:04:38Mr. Gupta's
01:04:40impending nervous breakdown
01:04:41because you wanted him out,
01:04:42didn't you?
01:04:43He was a nuisance now.
01:04:44He didn't fit in
01:04:44with the rest of your
01:04:45corrupt inner circle.
01:04:47You know,
01:04:48when you English
01:04:49don't understand something,
01:04:50you call it evil.
01:04:51I don't know
01:04:52where you get
01:04:52that kind of fantasy.
01:04:53Are you denying
01:04:54what I'm suggesting?
01:04:55Yeah, I'm denying it.
01:04:56How do you analyse,
01:04:58Mr. Gupta?
01:04:58What?
01:04:59What sort of orientation
01:05:01do you ascribe to him?
01:05:03Club obsessive identity orientated.
01:05:05Mr. Hayward?
01:05:06Oh, he's servant orientated.
01:05:09Were you convicted
01:05:11on a drugs charge
01:05:12in California?
01:05:13Man, have you been working late?
01:05:15Yeah.
01:05:16I was younger then.
01:05:17It was a stage.
01:05:18Oh, you mean
01:05:19you don't use drugs now?
01:05:20No.
01:05:20Does anyone at Chute Hall?
01:05:21That's their choice.
01:05:22What do you feel about drugs?
01:05:23They're a bar to understanding.
01:05:25Now, you listen to me,
01:05:26Mr. Lawyer.
01:05:27Because I've taken drugs,
01:05:29because I married a passport,
01:05:30because I associate
01:05:31with a whole lot of freaks,
01:05:32that doesn't make me
01:05:33a criminal, you know?
01:05:35I'm trying to work
01:05:36something out about my life,
01:05:37and that's my right.
01:05:39Right?
01:05:40And some 800 people
01:05:42have needed us.
01:05:43Tell me something.
01:05:44When have 800 people
01:05:46needed you?
01:05:48Is Mr. Hayward
01:05:49frightened of you,
01:05:50Miss Watts?
01:05:50Is he, I don't know,
01:05:52maybe asking...
01:05:53Mr. Gupta?
01:05:54What?
01:05:54Is he afraid of you?
01:05:55I don't know.
01:05:56Is everyone at Chute Hall
01:05:58and the open box
01:05:59afraid of you?
01:06:00I don't know.
01:06:00Would it worry you
01:06:01if they were?
01:06:05No.
01:06:06Now, members of the jury,
01:06:15you are going to have to decide
01:06:16quite simply
01:06:17whether or not
01:06:18the open box
01:06:19is harmful and fraudulent,
01:06:20as Mr. Blower's article
01:06:21alleges.
01:06:23I would ask you,
01:06:23in coming to your decision,
01:06:24to bear always in mind
01:06:26the dangers of prejudice.
01:06:28What proof have we
01:06:29that the open box,
01:06:30eccentric though it may be,
01:06:31is more harmful
01:06:32or dangerous
01:06:33than many generally accepted
01:06:35human passions
01:06:35and obsessions,
01:06:36such as love,
01:06:37for example,
01:06:38or exam fever
01:06:39or football mania,
01:06:40as Dr. Gibbons has testified,
01:06:42or even Orthodox Christianity.
01:06:44Now, if they are to be
01:06:45adjudged harmful,
01:06:46very well then,
01:06:47so is the open box.
01:06:49But surely Mr. Blower
01:06:50implied something
01:06:51far more sinister,
01:06:52and what proof
01:06:53have we of that?
01:06:55None.
01:06:56Now, as for the charge of fraud,
01:06:58we are again, I suggest,
01:07:00in the realm of prejudice.
01:07:02Who do you believe,
01:07:03ladies and gentlemen?
01:07:04You will recall
01:07:05Mr. Blower's evidence.
01:07:07He is clearly
01:07:07an ambitious young man.
01:07:09You may feel that
01:07:09his style of journalism
01:07:11is one not noted
01:07:12for its scrupulous
01:07:13respect for truth.
01:07:15And you may feel
01:07:16that Mr. Gupta's
01:07:17emotional insecurities
01:07:18have led him
01:07:19to seek revenge.
01:07:21You may therefore question
01:07:22the reliability
01:07:23of his evidence.
01:07:25The only fact
01:07:26is that all accounts
01:07:27have been passed
01:07:28by Her Majesty's
01:07:29tax inspectors.
01:07:31Now, for the rest,
01:07:31you may find everything
01:07:32about the open box
01:07:33unattractive to you personally.
01:07:35But you must put
01:07:36personal antipathy
01:07:37out of your mind.
01:07:39My client is here
01:07:40on behalf of a group
01:07:41of people who have
01:07:42freely and sincerely
01:07:43made a certain choice
01:07:44about how they wish to live.
01:07:46Now, that choice
01:07:46may not be to your taste,
01:07:48but it is inalienably
01:07:49their right to make it.
01:07:51Now, we must be scrupulous
01:07:52in affording them
01:07:53the same legal protection
01:07:54against defamation
01:07:55as we would against
01:07:56any other group.
01:07:57and I therefore
01:07:58ask you to find
01:07:59for the plaintiff.
01:07:59members of the jury,
01:08:04firstly, I would remind you
01:08:06that my client
01:08:06is a professional journalist
01:08:08and no professional journalist
01:08:10can afford to make
01:08:11allegations of this kind
01:08:12lightly.
01:08:14Let's consider
01:08:14the first of his charges
01:08:15that the open box
01:08:16is harmful.
01:08:19Well, you may put
01:08:19your own interpretation
01:08:20on why Mrs. Peacock
01:08:22found satisfaction
01:08:23in the practices
01:08:24of the group.
01:08:25she claims to have
01:08:26benefited from it,
01:08:27but that does not mean
01:08:29that others have not
01:08:29suffered at its hands.
01:08:31One surely has to look
01:08:32no further than Mr. Gupta.
01:08:35Then you will also recall
01:08:36Dr. Gibbon's
01:08:37expert testimony
01:08:38that the so-called
01:08:40psychotherapy sessions,
01:08:41as practiced
01:08:41at the open box,
01:08:43especially without the benefit
01:08:44of an accepted psychiatrist,
01:08:46are potentially harmful.
01:08:47And indeed,
01:08:49the hospital in Fulchester
01:08:50records five suicide attempts
01:08:53and three nervous breakdowns
01:08:54among the residents
01:08:55at Chute Hall.
01:08:57These are just
01:08:58the documented cases.
01:09:00No, the fact is
01:09:01that this cult is harmful.
01:09:04And my client's
01:09:05use of the word,
01:09:06therefore,
01:09:06is quite justified.
01:09:08Now his second charge
01:09:09of fraudulence.
01:09:11The open box
01:09:12assured potential donors
01:09:14that any money
01:09:15would be used
01:09:16in the furtherance
01:09:17of the movement,
01:09:18the maintenance
01:09:19of Chute Hall,
01:09:20and in the opening
01:09:21of new centres abroad.
01:09:23Why were no new centres opened?
01:09:26Why did Mr. Hayward
01:09:28always want donations
01:09:29in cash?
01:09:31Why was Miss Watts
01:09:32so relieved
01:09:33that their accounts
01:09:34had not been questioned
01:09:36by the tax inspectors?
01:09:38Bearing in mind
01:09:39Mr. Hayward's evidence
01:09:42as an accountant,
01:09:44can you really be satisfied
01:09:45that a substantial part
01:09:47of the open box income
01:09:48is not hidden
01:09:50from the tax inspectors?
01:09:52I suggest you must conclude
01:09:54that the open box
01:09:55is a money-grabbing
01:09:56little cult.
01:09:58That's all.
01:09:59Quackish,
01:10:00deceitful,
01:10:01and dangerous.
01:10:02I therefore ask you
01:10:03to find for the defendant.
01:10:07Now, members of the jury,
01:10:09you must shed
01:10:10every trace of prejudice
01:10:12or personal antipathy.
01:10:13Now, I know this is
01:10:14not at all easy.
01:10:16You may, for example,
01:10:17feel that both sides
01:10:19in this case
01:10:19have taken,
01:10:20shall we say,
01:10:21a certain pleasure
01:10:22in the publicity
01:10:23being generated.
01:10:25Now, that too
01:10:26you must put out
01:10:27of your mind.
01:10:28You must address
01:10:28yourselves solely
01:10:29to the law.
01:10:30Now, you have to decide
01:10:31whether on the balance
01:10:32of probabilities,
01:10:34Mr. Blower's allegation
01:10:35is true
01:10:35that the open box movement
01:10:37is both harmful
01:10:38and fraudulent.
01:10:40Now then,
01:10:41three points arise
01:10:42from this seemingly
01:10:43straightforward proposition.
01:10:45First of all,
01:10:45let's clear up
01:10:46this question of harm.
01:10:48Now, you have to decide
01:10:49merely if the defendants
01:10:52were right
01:10:52to say that the open box
01:10:54is harmful
01:10:54on any level.
01:10:56In other words,
01:10:57if the defendants
01:10:58were right
01:10:59to say that,
01:11:02in other words,
01:11:03something that actually
01:11:03causes harm
01:11:04or is capable
01:11:06of causing harm.
01:11:07However,
01:11:09and this is my second point,
01:11:11the defendants
01:11:12have to convince you
01:11:13that both
01:11:14their allegations
01:11:15are true.
01:11:17In other words,
01:11:18you may decide
01:11:19that the word harmful
01:11:20is true
01:11:20but that the word
01:11:21fraudulent is not.
01:11:23Now,
01:11:24in this case,
01:11:25Mr. Blower
01:11:26is nevertheless at fault
01:11:27and he must be found liable.
01:11:30And thirdly,
01:11:31thirdly,
01:11:32members of the jury,
01:11:33you will note
01:11:33that the law requires you
01:11:34to decide a liable case
01:11:36not beyond
01:11:37all reasonable doubt
01:11:38but on the balance
01:11:40of probabilities
01:11:40and that is
01:11:41a very different thing.
01:11:43I would ask you
01:11:44not to be misled
01:11:45by able counsel
01:11:47for the plaintiff's
01:11:48insistence on proof.
01:11:50You have to decide
01:11:51whether in your judgment
01:11:52on the basis
01:11:53of what you have seen
01:11:55and heard
01:11:55in this court,
01:11:57the open box
01:11:58is harmful
01:11:58and fraudulent.
01:12:00Now,
01:12:00if you decide
01:12:01that on the balance
01:12:02of probabilities it is,
01:12:04then you must find
01:12:06for Mr. Blower
01:12:07and his employers.
01:12:09But,
01:12:10if Mr. Blower
01:12:11and his employers
01:12:11have not so satisfied you,
01:12:14then your verdict
01:12:14must be for the plaintiffs.
01:12:17I will now retire
01:12:18and consider your verdict.
01:12:20All stand.
01:12:27Members of the jury,
01:12:28will your foreman
01:12:29please stand?
01:12:30Just answer this question
01:12:33yes or no.
01:12:34Have you reached a verdict
01:12:35upon which you are all agreed?
01:12:37Yes.
01:12:38How do you find,
01:12:39for the plaintiff
01:12:40or the defendants?
01:12:41For the defendants.
01:12:42next week,
01:12:57a chance for you
01:12:58to join another jury
01:12:59when our cameras return
01:13:00to watch another leading case
01:13:01in the Crown Court.
01:13:02the judge.
01:13:04The jury
01:13:18has never been
01:13:19where the plaintiff
01:13:20has never been
01:13:21ever.
01:13:22The 세럼 of the jury
01:13:23will be held
01:13:24after the investigation
01:13:24is due to the
01:13:25the jury
01:13:25and there
01:13:26will be
01:13:27as a judge.
01:13:28The jury
01:13:30will be our
01:13:30as a judge.
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