- 5 weeks ago
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00:00This is a fascinating little gadget, it allows us to ask you unconscious questions without
00:29your consciousness necessarily being aware of it, now just close your eyes, one, two, slipping
00:43deeper, and as I talk to you now, is there a part that wishes to tell me something that
00:52is important?
00:53I gave them consent to me under hypnosis because I had nothing to hide.
00:59Tell me now.
01:00Little did I know of the problem of using hypnosis, I never would have agreed to it, but I didn't
01:06know that.
01:07Let me ask you, recognize any faces?
01:14Sure fuck do.
01:15Absolutely.
01:16How do you eat?
01:17Fucked her?
01:18Yeah.
01:19Killed her?
01:20Yeah.
01:21Anything else you'd like to know?
01:22What can you tell me about?
01:23Karen Mandick and Diane Wilder.
01:25The bodies of Karen Mandick and Diane Wilder were found splayed in the backseat of Ms. Mandick's
01:26car.
01:27Young women were strangled and the car was abandoned.
01:28You don't fucking understand.
01:29The man suspected of killing the two women, 27 year old Kenneth Bianchi is also a suspect
01:30in several other disappearances of young women.
01:31I don't want to play no more.
01:32And may indeed be the infamous Hillside Strangler.
01:33Ken is a suspect.
01:34Is there anything else you'd like to know?
01:35Anything else you'd like to know?
01:36What can you tell me about?
01:37Karen Mandick and Diane Wilder.
01:38The bodies of Karen Mandick and Diane Wilder were found splayed in the backseat of Ms.
01:39Mandick's car.
01:40The young women were strangled and the car was abandoned.
01:41You don't fucking understand.
01:42The man suspected of killing the two women, 27 year old Kenneth Bianchi is also a suspect
01:52in several other disappearances of young women.
01:55I don't want to play no more.
01:57And may indeed be the infamous Hillside Strangler.
02:00Ken is going to have to come out.
02:02Come out, Ken.
02:03Come out, Ken.
02:04Ken.
02:05Ken?
02:06Yeah.
02:07You here?
02:08I'm here.
02:09Thank you, Doctor.
02:10Do you have a safe trip now?
02:11You too.
02:12Okay.
02:13What happened in Bellingham after my arrest was the start of everything that has transpired
02:34since then?
02:35It was at the end of this cul-de-sac near a housing development in South Bellingham where
02:41Karen Mandick's car was found.
02:43The two women, strangled, were stuffed in the back area of the car.
02:44The break in the Hillside Strangler case came in an unusual place.
02:50A double murder that occurred in Washington State in 1979.
02:51A full year after the murder of the Hillside Strangler case came in an unusual place.
02:52A double murder that occurred in Washington State in 1979.
02:53A full year after the murders had ceased in Los Angeles.
02:54A full year after the murders had ceased in Los Angeles.
02:55A full year after the murders had ceased in Los Angeles.
02:56A double murder that occurred in Washington State in 1979.
02:57A full year after the murders had ceased in Los Angeles.
03:01Both of the young women were clothed and they were just sort of askew in the car.
03:04A full year after the murders had ceased in Los Angeles.
03:21Both of the young women were clothed and they were just sort of askew in the car.
03:30You could see deep ligature wounds on their necks from strangulation.
03:37Police are still on the scene investigating today, searching specifically for car keys
03:42or anything else they might find to help them in the investigation.
03:54It was a Saturday morning, as I recall.
03:57We were looking at the newspaper in bed and we opened it and saw that these two women had been killed.
04:08I was Diane Wilder's professor.
04:10I knew Diane really well.
04:13She was a really easy person to be around and interesting and curious.
04:19And Diane was really interested in the Middle East.
04:22We were gathering students together for a trip to Israel in the spring.
04:26You know, one of the things that we talked about the day she died was how she was raising money to be able to go.
04:35And she had the opportunity to earn money house sitting with her roommate, Karen.
04:39Karen and I, we were both juniors at Western.
04:43We were both 21 years old.
04:46We were taking an accounting class together.
04:49I mean, we just hit it off right away.
04:53We started off right away.
04:54So we started dating.
04:56She had a magnetic personality that just drew people to her.
05:00You know, people wanted to be around her.
05:02She made you feel good about yourself.
05:05She was funny.
05:07She was very witty, very smart.
05:10Karen and I, we were just having kind of a pause in our relationship.
05:16We decided we needed to talk.
05:19We kind of ironed everything out and I thought things were back on again.
05:25So I was pretty happy.
05:27But it was that night that she was murdered.
05:30The two women attended Western Washington University.
05:33The first sign of their disappearance came late Thursday when Karen Mandic did not return to the local Fred Meyer from her dinner break.
05:41Karen Mandic had met Ken Bianchi because he was working security at Fred Meyer's.
05:48And then he got an offer at Whatcom Security that made him leader of a number of employees there.
05:55I knew Karen working at Fred Meyer.
05:58I was her supervisor.
06:00And Ken Bianchi was security.
06:04Ken was different.
06:07He had a creepy vibe.
06:10His favorite little habit was coming up behind you and put his arm around your neck and then tell us that is what he had been taught in the army.
06:23Ken bragged openly about having killed people in the Vietnam War and just different stories he would tell.
06:32We knew they weren't true.
06:35When Karen came to work that evening she had asked to talk to me about taking an extra hour on her break.
06:48I asked her why she needed it and Karen said I was told not to tell anybody.
06:54The girl reported missing to us was Karen Mandic.
07:00Her boyfriend told us that she had received a job house sitting.
07:06Security agencies here in the city of Bellingham will have people come to the home and stay in the home for a period of time like to an hour while they put in security alarm system.
07:19The police discovered that Kenneth Bianchi had arranged a house sitting job at this home 334 Bayside with Karen Mandic.
07:30Karen wanted to bring her roommate Diane Wilder with her.
07:36And so he told her not to tell anyone.
07:50But Karen did tell Bill Bryant and told Steve Hardwick two young men that she had been dating.
07:57I didn't know that Ken was involved but Karen was really nervous.
08:08Wherever she had to be it had to be seven o'clock sharp.
08:12I said you have to be back by nine o'clock no later than nine o'clock.
08:18Later on when she didn't show up the bells went off.
08:31Karen would never have left me in the lurch.
08:34She would have called.
08:36I made a phone call to a number that she had left which happened to be Steve, her boyfriend at the time.
08:45Steve Hardwick indicated she was first missing.
08:51He went to the address at Bayside.
08:54But then he called the Bellingham Police Department.
08:57He spoke to two sergeants.
09:00Bellingham Police.
09:02And they became extremely concerned about it.
09:06When I had found out that Karen had not returned home.
09:09Got the key and went to the girls house.
09:12And I was just looking for anything that might shed light on where they might be.
09:17And I found this note by the phone from Diane to Karen.
09:23It said, can be called.
09:25I actually called the number and I asked him if he knew where Karen was.
09:31He finally did admit that he knew Karen, but wouldn't talk about the job at all.
09:39The conversation ended when he said, well, I can understand why you'd be concerned about her.
09:46She was a very nice girl.
09:48It really didn't hit me when he said it.
09:54But as soon as I hung up the phone, I go, he said was.
09:57Because he knew she was dead at that time.
10:01Sergeants contacted Ken Bianchi and had him come in to talk to them.
10:11Bianchi indicated that he didn't know Karen Mandic and he hadn't arranged any job.
10:18We knew that was a lie.
10:20They also found on the keys that he had, there was a key to 334 Bayside.
10:26I'd gotten a search warrant on Ken Bianchi's house.
10:31We found stolen equipment from Fred Myers when he's working as a security guard there.
10:36He stole chainsaws and a number of items.
10:39So I initially charged him with that as a holding charge.
10:43Charging the suspect with possession of stolen property this afternoon
10:47buys authorities some time to complete their investigation,
10:50allowing them to build what they feel will be a strong case against Bianchi.
10:55You get many phone calls when you're off time, when you've got a case of this magnitude.
11:07It was Detective Louie Danoff.
11:10And he explained that he'd gotten a phone call from Bellingham, Washington, from a detective.
11:16They wanted a background check.
11:18Our investigator said, have you ever heard about the Hillside Strangler?
11:21He said no, that he hadn't.
11:22He said, I think you've got something there awfully close to what we've been working on.
11:30The Hillside Strangler Task Force immediately came up here.
11:34Met with the detectives and we saw the ligature marks on the throat.
11:40I thought, hey, we've got a gun suspect here.
11:44We're talking about two young girls who've been killed.
11:46The strangulations in Los Angeles are young girls and it's a multiple murder.
11:52In Bellingham, Washington, at 334 Bayside, some of the forensic evidence that they did find were pubic errors related to Kenneth Bianchi.
12:02The FBI crime lab is processing a good deal of evidence against the former private security guard and are notifying Bellingham authorities on every development.
12:12When the FBI came back and we had matched up the hairs connected to Ken Bianchi, I thought we had an incredibly strong case.
12:20It's all circumstantial evidence, but you're adding all of these things up with the hairs and the fibers.
12:26We had him lying about knowing Karen Mandic.
12:30Why would you lie about that?
12:31The proximity, the fact that we had him in possession of the key to the house and he lied about that.
12:36All of these things just show conclusively he is the guy that did these crimes.
12:49Bellingham police came to the apartment and told me and I was devastated.
13:01And I knew it was him.
13:16I was filled with rage.
13:19I wanted to kill him.
13:26I was so angry at the violence and the needlessness and the loss.
13:36It was horrible because you know somebody as this vibrant, smart, curious woman whose life has been cut short in a heinous act.
13:49Bianchi set up the murders days in advance, lured his victims to a South Bellingham home under the guise of house sitting, bound, gagged, and raped the two coeds, finally strangling them with a piece of cord.
14:01What do we really have to suffer within our society with a person that is this miserable and this dangerous?
14:08So I charged them with two counts of first-degree murder.
14:15And I decided to file a notice of death penalty and I did that.
14:20Kenneth Bianchi is being held in isolation here at the Whatcom County Jail.
14:24The 27-year-old former security guard is charged with the slains of two western Washington coeds.
14:30Bianchi is also accused in several of the so-called Los Angeles hillside stranglings.
14:36When I was arrested, I really felt that this was a terrible mistake.
14:44I knew I hadn't done anything, but I also knew that this was very serious.
14:51And I glanced over and saw the booking sheet.
14:54It said something like two counts of homicide.
14:59My heart sank because I thought, what the hell is going on here?
15:06Well, hi David.
15:22Ken, great to see you.
15:25Great to see you too.
15:27I was introduced to Ken Bianchi through the world of murderabilia serial killer art.
15:35I was working with a man and I was at his home and he said, oh, that art's by Ken Bianchi, the hillside strangler.
15:46He facilitated the introduction.
15:49What's your memories of when we first started communicating?
15:54It's been almost nine years.
15:56And it's been the most incredible thing that's ever happened to me, short of my son being born.
16:07Ken Bianchi started writing me a lot of letters that said, I did not do these murders.
16:14For the first few years, I didn't believe him.
16:17I said, show me the documents, show me what evidence you have that supports any of your claims.
16:22And he started sending me extraordinary material that never hit the public eye.
16:33I was shocked and appalled.
16:38So I made a decision that I was going to look into the hillside strangler case.
16:49When I looked into the case, I was questioning the police evidence.
16:55And what I saw here was a tunnel vision emerging on Ken Bianchi.
17:03The interest of the Los Angeles police that Ken Bianchi was their man,
17:08superpowered the Bellingham cops investigation to make sure that this rap would stick on Ken Bianchi.
17:17So, Ken, I'm just here in London and I'm packing to go over to the States to walk the crime scenes.
17:26I decided that I had to understand the Bellingham cases, what happened on this night of January 11, 1979.
17:35You questioned everything. You were able to find out the actual truth yourself.
17:42And the rest is our little history. It's been a long road.
17:50Please meet you. Thank you.
17:57Mr. Bianchi, we'd like to begin with your childhood and what you remember about life as a child.
18:03My life as a child was pretty nice.
18:06It was a home that I can look back on my childhood and be very happy and very proud, you know, of my parents.
18:11Ken was born in Rochester, New York, of a single mother who had him put out for adoption almost immediately.
18:21Shortly after, a married Italian woman, Frances, brought him up as her own.
18:26He was close to both his mother and his father.
18:30But at the age of 12, he'd suffered a sudden death of his father.
18:37Ken struggled in his 20s. He couldn't find his way. He'd never graduated college.
18:44All the avenues available to him in Rochester were beginning to dry up.
18:49And Ken Bianchi came to Los Angeles trying to reinvent himself and to make a new start.
18:55And he moved in from his cousin, Angelo Bueno.
19:01And it wasn't until I arrived in Los Angeles that I fell off. And that was Kelly.
19:08In May of 1978, Ken followed his girlfriend, Kelly Boyd, and their newborn child to Bellingham, Washington.
19:16She had become pregnant and she had had a new baby during those murders in Los Angeles.
19:22Ken arrived at Bellingham to renew this relationship.
19:27The Ken I knew couldn't have ever hurt anybody or killed anybody.
19:32He was pretty thoughtful and real helpful with the baby.
19:35And even around the house, he was real helpful.
19:37He, um...
19:42He just wasn't the kind of person that could have killed somebody.
19:45So long ago.
19:54It was in the newspaper about Ken being arrested and, I don't know, it was just unbelievable.
20:00He was too nice for that.
20:02My friend Kathy and I met him not very long after we moved to Bellingham.
20:08And I needed a job really bad.
20:11My girlfriend and I went down to the security office here and applied for our job.
20:16And he was the first thing that we saw walk around the corner for our interview.
20:20We both went, wow, look at that hunk.
20:23Yeah, we thought, what kind of nice guy is this?
20:26Very thoughtful and kind and, you know, just an all-around good guy.
20:30An all-around good guy.
20:32I wrote Ken a letter in jail saying, you know, we can't believe it.
20:36You know, is there something we can help you do or whatever.
20:39And we started writing back and forth to each other.
20:43He seemed interested in what I was doing with myself.
20:47I believed anything he said to me and he told me he was innocent.
20:52He once said that he wished it would be like a Perry Mason movie,
20:57where in the end someone would stand up and say they were with him in the night of question.
21:04Then he called and he said he needed somebody to write him an alibi for that night.
21:11And, you know, when you're 21 years, I'm sorry, I was very naive.
21:16I wrote to him saying where we were, what I was wearing, and all these things.
21:21And after I sent it to him, a couple days later I decided I can't do this.
21:25This is all wrong.
21:27And I told him to get rid of the letter.
21:30Because there's just no way that I was gonna put myself in that situation.
21:36Why would I have to lie to somebody that didn't do it?
21:42I did go visit Ken in jail.
21:45I think I needed that for just in my own mind to have closure that he really was a guilty party.
21:56He put his hand up to the window to say goodbye and I went,
22:00those hands murdered all these girls.
22:05Ken Bianchi asking Angie Kenenberg for an alibi letter was quite extraordinary.
22:13In fact, this was one of the first things I questioned Ken about.
22:17And quite frankly, he admitted it.
22:20He was desperate for an alibi.
22:23And I think I finally found one.
22:28The police believe Karen and Diane were murdered between 7 and 9pm.
22:33And today I'm going to prove that Ken couldn't have been the one who killed them.
22:38Fred Meyer is hugely significant to this story.
22:42This is the location where the clock starts ticking for Karen Mandig.
22:46This is where she is last seen alive.
22:50According to Karen's manager, she left Fred Meyer's about five minutes after 7pm.
22:57OK, I'm going to start the clock on the trip.
23:017.05 leaves Fred Meyer.
23:05Karen would have picked up Diane here at 12.46, Ellis.
23:11That would have been just a one-minute drive coming up in Willow Court.
23:17This road was exactly as it is.
23:19And the car came to sit at about here.
23:26Getting them to Willow Court at about 7.20.
23:31Two minutes later, Ken Bianchi's pickup truck enters to take the girls away.
23:41We want to go from this location to where Ken Bianchi is supposedly taking them.
23:53And we're just pulling up.
23:55And it's taken us four minutes to get here.
23:587.27.
24:00This is 334 Bayside.
24:04The murder house.
24:07The most significant address in this case and the key to the Hillside Strangler case.
24:14It takes about four minutes to strangle a person to death, which would mean Ken would have had to take at least eight minutes to murder Karen Mandic and Diane Wilder.
24:26Now, this is extraordinary.
24:29Ken Bianchi's alibi kicks in at 7.39.
24:33That's when his co-workers spotted him at Whatcom Security Agency.
24:38And that's about ten minutes from the house on Bayside.
24:42And these timings say to me, this couldn't be done.
24:46And it means for me, the actual murder investigation has to be started from scratch.
24:51Because the real murderer is still out there.
24:54And he's been able to get away with it.
24:56And this journey that I've taken today makes me more determined even to find who it is.
25:07You have a prepaid call from...
25:09Ken.
25:11...an inmate at Washington State Penitentiary.
25:15Yeah, hi.
25:16We're continuing here in Bellingham.
25:18Can we filmed every step of the timings, the journey between the office, for Whatcom Security,
25:25and the Houser 334 Bayside?
25:29And I found that you were travelling and you were seen by a witness
25:34at the moment that those women were claimed to be murdered.
25:41That sighting alone means that you would have left those two women alive.
25:48I mean, I really...
25:50I mean...
25:51I really...
25:52I mean...
25:53You know...
25:54You know, I'm looking...
25:55You have one minute left.
25:56I'm looking 50 years for this.
25:57I feel someone vindicated, you know?
25:58I don't know if my lawyer had done that back then.
26:01I wouldn't be in the situation, you know?
26:02But nobody's bothered.
26:03You're the first.
26:04I want to thank you very much for doing that.
26:05That's so important.
26:06I feel vindicated.
26:07I'm...
26:08I'm shocked that this wasn't...
26:09I'm sorry.
26:10These investigations weren't done for you at the time.
26:11Any attorney should have timed these to...to...to the second.
26:14You know?
26:15You know?
26:16I don't know if my lawyer had done that back then.
26:17I wouldn't be in the situation, you know?
26:20But nobody's bothered.
26:21You're the first.
26:22I want to thank you very much for doing that.
26:25That's so important.
26:27I feel vindicated.
26:30I'm shocked that this wasn't...
26:32I'm sorry.
26:33These investigations weren't done for you at the time.
26:35Any attorney should have timed these to...to...to the second.
26:40in your defence of presumed innocence.
26:43My lawyer.
26:44My lawyer did.
26:45He didn't care.
26:46He didn't give a shit.
26:47He would've seen...
26:48Thank you for using me.
26:49Oh, God.
26:50Ken...
26:55Again, it's taken me years to actually believe anything that Ken Bianchi says
27:02because I've been influenced by what I've read, by the professionals in this case.
27:08I trusted their word that this was a...this was a man who was a liar and a psychopath.
27:15But this man had no presumption of innocence.
27:20Not even from the defence attorney who did everything he could to get a confession and a guilty verdict.
27:27The job of the prosecutor done by the defence attorney.
27:32Being here in Bellingham has raised even more questions.
27:36I worked extensively to get the information from Kenneth Bianchi about January 11, 1979, to know exactly what he was doing.
27:45An alibi that Ken could provide to me would exclude him from the possibility of maybe being one of the hillside stranglers.
27:54So it was very important for me to get the details of that night in question.
27:58Dispatcher Vicki Jackson at Whatcom Security testified that Ken had been in the office on the night in question.
28:10The problem was that she didn't know the time that Ken was there.
28:15She was unsure whether it could have been 810, 820, and doesn't really matter because the Whatcom Security Office was not that far from the murder scene.
28:27So the suspect could have clocked in to work, gone to the crime scene, and still fit within the two-hour timeframe that the police were seeking to find.
28:37So the only person to really answer for Ken that night was Ken himself.
28:44But Ken is very good at confusing the truth to almost any aspect of his life.
29:00I met Ken Bianchi in September of 77.
29:04I was 18.
29:07I worked at a title company in Los Angeles.
29:10And this handsome guy came in one day and just kind of swept me off my feet.
29:17He was always dressed very nice, always in a suit and tie or sport coat.
29:21He was super smart.
29:23He had diplomas on the wall for psychology.
29:27So I thought Ken was going to go far in life.
29:32The first time I think we said I love you was probably after dating two months.
29:38I was just overwhelmed.
29:39I was falling hard for him.
29:40I was in love for sure.
29:42I thought this was going to be a serious relationship.
29:47He never had any kind of meanness or aggressiveness or anything bad towards me.
29:54But I just kind of felt him pulling away a little and getting a little colder and more distant.
30:00We broke up around February of 1978.
30:03Then he was gone.
30:06While we were dating, I didn't realize all those girls were being killed.
30:13I didn't know anything about any other women or children or anything like that.
30:19And I didn't hear anything from him or about him until the killings in Washington scared me to death.
30:28Because when we were dating, some of the places I was at with Ken were where they had found victims.
30:36So I became suspicious that I was being used as a cover up.
30:42I was a good alibi.
30:49During last month's court appearance, Bianchi pleaded not guilty to charges that he killed Diane Weiler and Karen Mandic last January 11.
30:57After I asked for the death penalty, Ken Bianchi's attorney felt Bianchi should plead not guilty by reason of insanity.
31:07He seemed pretty normal.
31:10But there were some things that didn't fit.
31:12He indicated he didn't know anything about the homicides.
31:16And yet he gave a series of increasingly incredible explanations of what he had been doing on the night of the murders.
31:25My lawyer and I just couldn't see eye to eye because I knew what I had done.
31:29And I hadn't killed any girl.
31:31With all these killings, I don't remember anything.
31:35Ken Bianchi was having constant arguments with his defense attorney, Dean Brett.
31:40Dean Brett was telling the court that he couldn't communicate with his own client because he was a pathological liar.
31:48Dean Brett's belief that the lies he was telling were the lie that he was innocent.
31:53And so he wants his client to plead not guilty by reason of insanity.
31:58Mark.
32:02Okay, so not guilty by reason of insanity.
32:06That means that if you were not aware what you were doing at the time of the murder,
32:14or if you were not aware of right from wrong at the time of the murder,
32:19then legally that meant that you were insane.
32:23But in felony cases, not guilty by reason of insanity is very rare.
32:29So it's clear to me that there was a bit of desperation to prove Kenneth Bianchi was potentially insane to stop him from being put to death.
32:44And we're going to be tape recording.
32:50Uh-huh.
32:51Just a regular audio recording.
32:53And we also have some videotape here, which we may use later.
32:56I can't tell you, I'm terrified about this.
32:58And if you agree to us.
33:00No, I don't mind.
33:01I don't mind.
33:04Is the camera going?
33:05Yeah.
33:06Okay.
33:07My name is Dr. Ralph B. Allison.
33:09I'm Dr. John Watkins.
33:10I'm Dr. Donald Mundy.
33:12I'm a psychiatrist from Davis, California.
33:15And I was asked by Judge Kurtz to examine, uh, Ken Bianchi, uh, to advise the judge.
33:23And this dictator isn't.
33:25The defense attorney had wanted to have six psychiatrists appointed to examine him.
33:30Two for the defense, two for the court, independent witnesses, and two for the state.
33:36The only way to be fair, Dr. Landig, is for me to come into this thing.
33:41Fair for me, fair for you, and fair to Dean, who's representing me.
33:44My life is at stake.
33:45A lot of things are really important.
33:47The thing for me is to be in a good frame of mind.
33:51Well, uh, you tell me in your own words, in terms of your thinking, your memory of events
33:59that happened in January of 1979 in Bellingham, Washington.
34:04Wish I could help you.
34:05It's real foggy.
34:06Um, I don't remember it.
34:08It is not unusual, in my experience, for people who have, uh, been charged with murder,
34:14who have killed people, to have, uh, a loss of memory for various events,
34:19for a period of time after they're arrested.
34:22I'm sorry.
34:23I don't remember.
34:24It's all right.
34:27No, no.
34:30People have different theories about how memory works, but we know that memory is really tricky in general.
34:35People who have traumas will dissociate.
34:38Dissociation is a real thing.
34:41It happens when you go through major trauma, and you will sometimes lose your memory.
34:46So back in the 70s and 80s, people were hypnotizing their clients to basically remember.
34:52I told my lawyer, from the very first time I met him and stuff, that I'm innocent.
34:58I had nothing to do with these murders.
35:00But he said that, you know, it's really stacking up against you, and it really looks like you're guilty.
35:05And so they thought that hypnosis was the way to get to the truth.
35:08We believe, you believe that you're innocent, but we believe you just don't remember that you committed the crimes.
35:15Back in the 70s, they were using hypnosis for all kinds of things.
35:19So they were using it for witness testimony.
35:22Like, okay, so we gotta maybe put you under, and then maybe you'll remember some items like the color of the car or the person's hair.
35:32The Los Angeles Police Department is using a new tool to fight crime.
35:36The investigators report that without the use of investigative hypnosis, they would not have been able to obtain the evidence
35:44and allow them to ultimately solve the case.
35:48And so for Kenneth Bianchi, I believe the defense attorneys were like,
35:52maybe we can hypnotize him and find out what happened.
35:56I wish I had been strong enough to tell my lawyer, hell no, to the hypnosis,
36:03but the death penalty wasn't looming over the whole thing.
36:07I was just trying to survive.
36:11It's April 18th, I think.
36:15Dr. Allison.
36:16Yeah.
36:17Back in the Yomkin.
36:18The jail in Bellingham.
36:19What?
36:20What?
36:21What?
36:22What?
36:23What?
36:24What?
36:25Okay, Ken.
36:26What I want you to do is think.
36:28This is it.
36:29You're being hooked up to your unconscious mind.
36:32And I want you to just allow that finger to raise if I mention an age at which something important happened
36:40that is connected to the reason why you're in jail now.
36:44So I'll start right off from birth.
36:51One year.
36:53Two.
36:54Eight.
36:55Nine.
36:56I'd like you to be the nine year old and where are you living now?
37:00Big greenhouse.
37:01In recent days.
37:02What's been going on, Ken?
37:03My mom, it hits me a lot.
37:04Your mom hits you?
37:05How does that affect you, Ken?
37:09I just wanted to die.
37:10I know.
37:11I don't want to die, but I'm not going to die.
37:19I'm not going to die.
37:21I'm not going to die.
37:23I'm not going to die.
37:25I have to die.
37:26I just wanted to die.
37:30Did you ever hide inside your own head?
37:36Sometimes, just to get away.
37:40Anybody else here to talk to?
37:42My friend.
37:44Who's that?
37:46Stevie.
37:48How'd you happen to meet him?
37:52I ran away once.
37:54Hit under my bed.
38:00He was hitting me so bad.
38:02I was crying so hard.
38:04And all of a sudden, he was there.
38:08He said hi to me.
38:10Told me I was his friend.
38:14Does Stevie have a home, a house, where he lives?
38:18Where?
38:20Stevie lives with me.
38:22Suggest anything that you might do?
38:24He told me not to take it.
38:30He told me when she hits me, I should hit her back.
38:32When I looked at Ken's medical records, one of the things that I found was not only a suggestion of abuse, but a lot of neglect.
38:40Now, this is important because every serial killer I've ever studied, their home lives are incredibly traumatic.
38:48There's violence, neglect, addiction, humiliation, humiliation, deception, and often all of the above.
38:56All the doctors, from everything that I've gone through, bring up the mother.
39:08All the doctors, from everything that I've gone through, bring up the mother.
39:12That is Kenneth.
39:14He was like, that's in childhood.
39:16You catch him doing something, ask him why he did it.
39:20He'll tell you, I didn't do it.
39:22And he would deny everything.
39:24That at the end, you felt like you were the crazy one and not him.
39:29But that's Kenneth.
39:31He is a smooth liar.
39:35In serial killers' mothers, what we know is they're either physically dominant, emotionally dominant, emotionally incestuous, or very inconsistent in their care.
39:45In the medical records, there was one moment where a doctor was writing about how he was brought into the hospital with his feet caked with dirt.
39:53And it was clear to the doctors that he had not been bathed at all.
39:57And when they asked his mother about it, she said, well, I take him to the YMCA once a week, and I let him swim in the pool, and that's how he bathes.
40:06I knew a fair amount about the kind of mother she had been at that age.
40:10And it puzzled me, you know, why you would characterize her as this wonderful person.
40:17I don't know why.
40:20It just, they made presumptions.
40:27It was all the phony and stuff.
40:29Because it was all, mom's the problem.
40:32Mom's the reason why you are the way you are.
40:35Mom's the reason why you did what we believe you did.
40:39They had created this really long idea of who she was.
40:45It was really a loving family.
40:53Now I want to talk to Stevie.
40:55I want to talk to Stevie.
40:57The Stevie that we've been talking about.
41:05Hey there.
41:06What's your name?
41:08Steve.
41:10What's your last name?
41:15What dissonant is it of yours?
41:18So, Steve appears.
41:21How old are you, Steve?
41:23What, are you writing a fucking book?
41:25No.
41:26I'm writing a report for the judge.
41:29He's asked me to talk to you.
41:31And Steve was a character, unlike Ken, who was really aggressive and rude and actually didn't like Ken.
41:40Fuck him, his mother too.
41:44A fucking cunt.
41:45Quite a bitch, wasn't she?
41:47She was a fucking cunt.
41:49You know, he, he still puts up with her shit.
41:53That fucking asshole.
41:55I was doing fine, you know?
41:57Now I can't even fucking call out what I want to do.
42:00I don't want to play no more.
42:03I thought, my goodness, this is evidence of multiple personality.
42:09Dr. Allison took this to mean, whoa, proof.
42:12Big time.
42:13Definitely has multiple personality disorder.
42:17So it's possible that Kenneth's attorney, Dean Brett, is thinking to himself,
42:21maybe we can use this as a defense.
42:24Because if Ken did not know what he was doing, and he couldn't know right from wrong,
42:29then technically, he's insane.
42:34He believed that he would be acquitted by reason of insanity.
42:37That concerned me a great deal, because that meant he would be out on the streets
42:40if he could just convince a number of psychiatrists that he was cured of his problem,
42:44which I felt he could easily do.
42:46And so, Dr. Watkins' objective now, it seems to be to get Steve to remember the crimes.
42:53Steve, I'm gonna ask you.
42:56Make you guys any faces?
43:01Sure if I do.
43:03What?
43:04How do you think?
43:05Absolutely.
43:06How do you eat?
43:11Where'd you get this? This is all right, man.
43:13Came out of a magazine.
43:14Hey, poor bucket out.
43:17Well, I got a magazine.
43:18I just wanted to see whether you would recognize anything in there.
43:24Fucked her.
43:25Yeah.
43:26Killed her.
43:27Yeah.
43:28She had a shaved pussy.
43:29I like shaved pussies.
43:30Yeah.
43:32There's a cut.
43:33Oh, one that says Washington there.
43:36First one.
43:37First one.
43:38That's right.
43:39You don't have to take credit for any of them.
43:41You don't want them.
43:42Hey, man.
43:43It doesn't bother me any.
43:44Killing a broad doesn't make any difference to me.
43:47What?
43:48Killing any fucking body doesn't make any difference to me.
43:50Yeah, well, maybe you didn't kill any of those.
43:51I don't know.
43:52Oh, hey, no wrong, man.
43:54I killed a couple of these.
43:55Oh, wait.
43:56Come on.
43:57You see what you did, right?
44:00I don't know.
44:03I killed her.
44:04Angelo killed her.
44:09They mean the Wagner when Angelo killed.
44:13This broad I killed.
44:14These two Angelo killed.
44:16Right, sir.
44:18When Kenneth Bianchi was hypnotized,
44:20that's when he confessed.
44:22And he implicates his cousin, Angelo.
44:26Who's Angelo?
44:27Oh, it's some turkey, you know.
44:30It's his cousin.
44:32His cousin?
44:34Yeah.
44:36The DA's office of Bellingham,
44:38they were sending us videotapes of these sessions.
44:41Bianchi was confessing to committing the murders
44:45along with Angelo Bono.
44:48It's a big deal.
44:50Now we had a crime partner,
44:52and we knew we were looking for two people.
44:57He's my kind of man.
44:58Okay.
45:01There should be more people in the world like Angelo.
45:06Angelo's shop was in Glendale,
45:09and Ken spent a lot of time with Angelo
45:13at that body shop.
45:16Angelo did a lot of movie stars, cars,
45:18just old-time actors and actresses.
45:22Ken really looked up to Angelo.
45:25They were more like brothers and cousins.
45:28Angelo was very much a gentleman and a charmer,
45:31like Ken was to me.
45:37The police came to me at the red vest
45:39where Cindy and I worked,
45:40and showed me some mug shots
45:42and asked me if I knew any of the guys.
45:44And I said,
45:45yeah, this one here.
45:46And it was Angelo Bono.
45:47And I said,
45:48he comes in here all the time.
45:53And Angelo usually sat at the counter.
45:55He always used to sit with his head down.
45:57But you could tell he had his antenna up.
45:59He was always trying to listen to our conversations.
46:03I was thinking,
46:04how many times have I sat talking to him?
46:08At one point he did say,
46:09be careful out there,
46:10there's nuts running around.
46:12And I didn't realize he was one of them.
46:17During the time that we're investigating these murders,
46:19my theory became there could be two people.
46:24We thought Bono was the second guy.
46:28And we had LAPD put a 24-hour surveillance on him.
46:33We did a search warrant on his residence,
46:37put him in a hotel for a couple of days,
46:43sprayed his interior with a chemical
46:47to bring out fingerprints.
46:49It was oddly cleaned.
46:51When we left, I said,
46:52boy, that place is spotless.
46:55What we also have to consider
46:57is what was not found at the time
46:59is kind of unusual
47:02in that you would expect in the house
47:04where people lived
47:05that there would be some fingerprints
47:07found on the walls someplace,
47:08but there were none found anywhere.
47:11My personal feeling right there,
47:13we should hook him up and book him,
47:16but we didn't have enough evidence,
47:17just Bianchi's confession.
47:22Anything else you'd like to know?
47:24Anything else you want to tell me?
47:26So, Steve was making confessions.
47:28But Ken was still claiming that he's innocent.
47:31I really just find it so hard to believe.
47:34Then there came a point where the doctors
47:36were hoping to integrate Ken with Steve.
47:44Because that's the goal, ultimately.
47:46If you've got MPD back in the day,
47:48if that's what you had,
47:50the whole idea is integrating these personalities.
47:53So, Ken starts to remember
47:56that he's responsible for these crimes.
47:59Close your eyes, call his name,
48:02and say, I've got a question for you,
48:04and I want to talk to you.
48:05And just keep repeating that phrase
48:07until you hear him answer.
48:08Now you're over.
48:09Yep.
48:10Then start calling his name.
48:11Get his attention.
48:12Steve, I have a question I want to ask you.
48:14You keep saying I killed those girls.
48:15I didn't.
48:16You did.
48:17You just don't understand, you know,
48:18what happens to me is going to happen to you.
48:20Mm-hmm.
48:21Look.
48:22I...
48:23I'm going to talk to him about the fact
48:25that he's unquote,
48:26that he could make.
48:27He could make a call that he could make a call
48:29that he could get his attention.
48:30Steve, I have a question I want to ask you.
48:31Steve, I have a question I want to ask you.
48:33You keep saying I killed those girls.
48:34I didn't.
48:35You didn't.
48:36You just don't understand, you know,
48:38what happens to me is going to happen to you.
48:42Mm-hmm.
48:44It... Look.
48:46I...
48:47I...
48:48I'm gonna talk more about it later. I don't want to talk about it right now. You may be too upset.
48:55Bye, Steve. Bye, Steve.
49:06You can deny yourself that something's true for just so long.
49:11It's like a Jekyll and Hyde.
49:13There was at least one point where he had a major change, where one night a lot of awareness of the crime suddenly came into his mind.
49:23He called for his lawyer, they had a meeting, and from then on, he had no doubt he had done the crime.
49:31Steve Brett, my lawyer, came to the jail.
49:35He met me in the nurse's office where we had the hypnosis sessions with Watkins.
49:41He wanted to know what was happening, and I told him I started having these horrible memories that scared me, that really made me sad.
49:52And he hugged me, and he said, welcome back to the human race.
50:01And he stayed with me for a couple hours, and then I went back to my cell.
50:06What can you tell me about?
50:10You're a man that can lie in a while, or...
50:14Once you're in the house, then...
50:18They were showing around, and shown downstairs, or once downstairs is when it started.
50:23The gun, the gun pulled on them.
50:30They were totally face down, they were tied up, and they were separated, and then individually, one by one, they were untied and undressed, and sex with them.
50:41And, uh, then they were both dressed again, and then, uh, killed several.
50:47I believe, uh, Don Wilder was first, and Karimannick was second.
50:58And then they were carried up and put in the back of the car, and, uh, the car drove them to the golf sack.
51:03Dr. Lundy elicited all of the details from Bianchi on how he killed Karimannick and Diane Wilder.
51:19How he lured these young women, how he incapacitated them, and how he raped and killed them.
51:25He got all of the details from him.
51:27There were a lot of differences from the Los Angeles things.
51:32There really weren't that many similarities.
51:37So, um, okay, the first thing, uh, we can't hear is Washington.
51:49She was, you know, a prostitute from Los Angeles.
51:52She was picked up by Angelo.
51:57We used a police officer, Roos.
52:01Um, Angelo had sex with her first.
52:07And then took her to, uh, a spot where I had been dropped off by a gas station.
52:12He pulled up, and, uh, I walked up to the car.
52:16And she and I ended up in the back seat.
52:19I had, uh, sex with her.
52:21And then after that, uh, while driving on the freeway, um, she was strangled on the floor of the car.
52:31Once this was done, our body was taken over by, uh, Forest Lawn and, uh, Forest Lawn Drive and dropped there.
52:40This is, uh, the only one that was done outside of Angelo's house.
52:54Mm-hmm.
52:55The Yolanda Washington case was not on my radar.
53:00We knew about it, but it wasn't until Bianchi started talking to Bellingham that case was made part of the ten murders in Los Angeles County.
53:12Okay. Um, the next name I have is Miller.
53:19Miller.
53:21She was picked up over a walking on Sunset Boulevard.
53:27The police roost was used again.
53:30Angela had sex with her.
53:33I had had regular intercourse with her.
53:37King?
53:39Jane King was waiting for a bus.
53:42She was offered a ride, and she was a little hesitant.
53:47She was told that we were police officers, and she felt very confident, and off we went.
54:00Wagner?
54:02She was neither bound nor blindfolded.
54:05Kasten?
54:07Kasten.
54:08Kasten.
54:09Well, we both had sex with her on the floor of the spare bedroom, not on the bed.
54:12Then she was killed afterwards.
54:13Weckler?
54:14Oh, God.
54:15Do I have to?
54:16Um...
54:17She was brought out to the kitchen and put on the floor, and, uh, her head was covered with a bag, and the, the pipe, and the, the pipe, and the door, and the door, and the door, and the door, and the door, and the door, and the door, and the door, and the door, and the door.
54:28Yeah?
54:29So then she was, um, even.
54:31Okay.
54:32And her head was covered with a bag, and the pipe from the newly installed stove, which
54:37wasn't fully installed yet, was disconnected, put into the bag, and then turned on.
54:44Martin.
54:46She caught on that we weren't who we said we were.
54:51She started to head off the door, and Angel pulled her back and threw her down, and she
54:56was really just wanted out.
54:59She was in the trunk of the car, I was taking to Angel's crest, got behind the car, and pushed
55:07it up.
55:12Johnson and Spitt, remember the ages, I don't know, by the 14th or 13th, they were the youngest
55:20ones.
55:21Yeah.
55:22When I think back about it, it's just, I can't believe, I can't fathom, I, I, one girl
55:35was killed, and when she was, when she was dead, her body was put aside, and the other
55:40girl was brought in blindfolded, asking for her girlfriend.
55:44Mm-hmm.
55:45And she was told that she would be seeing her girlfriend pretty soon.
55:51Not.
55:53I understand everything I said was very heartbreaking, very hard to listen to.
56:16Uh, very hard to listen to, but...
56:20My confessions were all confessions.
56:46To be continued...
57:16To be continued...
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