Crown Court - The Open Invitation (1973) - video Dailymotion

Jezza

Crown Court: the gripping courtroom drama from the 1970s and 1980s.  Not all uploads are visible from the UK: either use a VPN or go to @ jezthorpe on my Daily Motion channel. 🙂👍 Maureen Sellers is accused of kidnapping a baby, which had been left in its pram outside a Fulchester supermarket. She claims she had the mother's permission to take the baby, for whom she had previously babysat, but the mother denies this. Jane Carr stars as the defendant. Watch out for an appearance by character actor Peter Miles (known best, perhaps, for his appearance in Doctor Who).

Transcript

00:00:30Constable Jenkins, would you tell the court how you came to be involved in this case, please?

00:00:36Yes, sir. On February the 10th last, I was on duty at the main road police station, Fulchester.

00:00:42At approximately 1100 hours, a woman entered the station showing signs of great distress.

00:00:48At first she was hysterical and I was unable to understand the reason for her condition for several minutes.

00:00:53I led her into a back room where she recovered control to the extent that she was able to give me her name,

00:00:59Mrs. Olivia Bascombe, and also to tell me that her baby had been taken from outside the AWS supermarket

00:01:05while she'd been inside shopping.

00:01:07She was able to give me details describing the baby and the pram, which had also disappeared.

00:01:12And what happened then, officer?

00:01:13Sergeant Cooper initiated an immediate street search.

00:01:16What did you do?

00:01:17I was ordered to remain with Mrs. Bascombe in the back room, sir.

00:01:20Carry on, please.

00:01:21Well, Mrs. Bascombe was still shaking and crying a great deal, and I did my best to comfort her.

00:01:25Did she say anything to you at this time?

00:01:27My lord, Mrs. Bascombe will be appearing as a witness.

00:01:30Yes, I have no objection.

00:01:31If defence counsel hasn't...

00:01:32None, my lord.

00:01:33My friend has indicated the substance of this evidence.

00:01:36Did Mrs. Bascombe say anything to you while you remained with her, officer?

00:01:39Well, for about 20 minutes, nothing of any importance, sir.

00:01:42She kept repeating various things over and over about wishing she hadn't left Karen alone,

00:01:48saying that she'd read about this sort of thing happening to other people,

00:01:50but never thinking it would happen to herself.

00:01:53Mrs. Bascombe was obviously very badly shocked, sir.

00:01:55Did you take any steps to help her condition?

00:01:57Yes, sir.

00:01:58Sergeant Cooper sent out a message to contact the police doctor.

00:02:01Go on, please.

00:02:03Well, I stayed with her until the doctor came.

00:02:05But before he arrived, Mrs. Bascombe seemed to get control of herself.

00:02:08Completely?

00:02:09Well, she stopped crying and began to speak in a more normal tone of voice.

00:02:13I was then able to ask her one or two questions.

00:02:16What questions?

00:02:17Well, I asked if she knew of anyone who might have taken her baby, for one reason or another.

00:02:20And what did she say to that?

00:02:22She mentioned the main...

00:02:23Now, my lord, in order to save the court's time,

00:02:25I am prepared to waive the hearsay rule in respect of simple verbal exchanges

00:02:29between this officer and Mrs. Bascombe,

00:02:31but I do feel we're entering into deeper waters here.

00:02:34Yes, you're right, Mr. Harvesty.

00:02:36Just to answer yes or no, officer, did Mrs. Bascombe reply to your question?

00:02:40Yes, my lord.

00:02:41I'm obliged, my lord.

00:02:42Acting on that reply, officer, what did you do?

00:02:44I informed Sergeant Cooper, who ordered me to go to 64 Penrose Villas, Fulchester.

00:02:50And what did you find at this address?

00:02:51I found the defendant, Maureen Sellers, with a missing child in pram, sir.

00:02:55What was the defendant doing when you called?

00:02:57She was bathing the baby.

00:02:58And who opened the door to you?

00:02:59The defendant's foster brother, Michael Brain.

00:03:02And you entered and went through to the bathroom?

00:03:04Yes, sir.

00:03:05The defendant was leaning over the bathtub, talking to the child as she washed her.

00:03:09Can you recall what she was saying to the child?

00:03:11Well, it was mostly soothing baby talk, sir.

00:03:14But she did keep referring to the child as Amanda.

00:03:18What is the full name of Mrs. Bascombe's daughter?

00:03:20Karen Margaret, sir.

00:03:21Hmm.

00:03:22What did you do?

00:03:23Well, I said I had reason to believe that the baby belonged to Mrs. Bascombe,

00:03:27and that she, the defendant, had taken her away in the pram without permission.

00:03:31Did she reply?

00:03:32Yes, sir.

00:03:33She told me to close the bloody door, that there was a hell of a draft coming in,

00:03:37and that I could give the baby pneumonia.

00:03:39Anything else?

00:03:40She said she was looking after Karen for Mrs. Bascombe.

00:03:43She said it wasn't safe for babies to be left outside shops unattended.

00:03:47She said she was merely helping Mrs. Bascombe, like she had done tons of times before.

00:03:52Hmm.

00:03:52And where was Mr. Brain while you were with the defendant?

00:03:55He stood behind me.

00:03:56He said,

00:03:56What the hell is all this about, Maureen?

00:03:59And then to me,

00:04:00What are you trying to make out?

00:04:02Are you saying she took the kid without permission?

00:04:04And what did you do then, officer?

00:04:06Well, I said that I intended to return the baby to her mother,

00:04:09and asked the defendant to accompany me to the main road police station.

00:04:12She did so,

00:04:13and there later,

00:04:14she was cautioned and charged with the kidnapping of Karen Bascombe.

00:04:17And did the defendant make any reply when you told her this?

00:04:20She said,

00:04:21This is ridiculous.

00:04:22She shouldn't have been left outside that shop on her own.

00:04:25And when charged,

00:04:26she said,

00:04:27Get her to tell you I always help out with Karen.

00:04:29She lets me bath her and everything.

00:04:31I didn't kidnap her.

00:04:32And did the defendant say anything at all about permission having been given to her by Mrs. Bascombe

00:04:36to let her take away the baby from the supermarket?

00:04:38No, sir.

00:04:40Would you remain there, please?

00:04:42You found the defendant, Miss Sellers, at 64 Penrose Villas.

00:04:46That is correct, isn't it, officer James?

00:04:48Yes, sir.

00:04:49Which is to be expected since Miss Sellers lives at that address, does she not?

00:04:52That is correct.

00:04:53The fact was not made clear when you were answering, my learned friend.

00:04:57So you discovered Miss Sellers at her own home with the baby?

00:05:01Yes.

00:05:01Hardly the actions of a kidnapper hoping to escape detection?

00:05:05It's not for me to say, sir.

00:05:07Can we come to the verbals?

00:05:09Yes.

00:05:11Miss Sellers told you she was looking after the baby for Mrs. Bascombe?

00:05:14Yes.

00:05:15But according to you, she did not say that she'd been given permission?

00:05:18She said nothing about that, sir.

00:05:20Oh, but she did say that she was acting as she had done tons of times before.

00:05:24She said helping the mother as she had done tons of times before.

00:05:28Looking after the child.

00:05:29All she said was helping.

00:05:31The officer's been quite clear on this point, Mr. Harvesty.

00:05:33I feel you're trying to make her imply something else from her words.

00:05:36With your lordship's permission, I'm trying to remove the ambiguity apparent in this officer's account of Miss Sellers' words.

00:05:42I fail to see any ambiguity.

00:05:44Well, my lord, it's my client's case that she was given an open invitation by Mrs. Bascombe to help bath, feed, and take her baby Karen for the occasional walk.

00:05:53And that on this occasion, she was doing just that.

00:05:55She was merely taking up the offer contained in that general invitation.

00:05:59Officer Jenkins' account of the replies given by Miss Sellers does not reflect this.

00:06:03Perhaps, Mr. Harvesty, because it is not there to reflect.

00:06:07To quote the officer, my lord, she, Miss Sellers, that is, said she was merely helping Mrs. Bascombe like she had done tons of times before.

00:06:17Yes.

00:06:18Yes, that too is my note of the evidence, Mr. Harvesty.

00:06:21But I have not yet noted anything from the officer about an open invitation,

00:06:26which was described by the defendant as having been granted from the mother.

00:06:31I'm obliged, my lord.

00:06:32Yes, well, let's get on.

00:06:34Um, officer Jenkins, you go on to say that Miss Sellers said this is ridiculous.

00:06:40She, the baby, should not have been left outside that shop on her own.

00:06:45That is so.

00:06:45She said a whole lot more too, didn't she?

00:06:47Well, she was very excited and she was talking all the time.

00:06:50I only took down what I considered relevant.

00:06:52Relevant to your case?

00:06:53Do you really mean to suggest ill faith on the part of this witness, Mr. Harvesty?

00:06:57Uh, no, my lord, I withdraw that comment.

00:06:59Officer, did my client also say that she was looking after Karen so as to watch over her while her mother was out of sight shopping?

00:07:10I have no record of that, sir.

00:07:13When you called at her house, Miss Sellers was bathing the baby?

00:07:16Yes.

00:07:17Didn't she offer a reason?

00:07:19Didn't she tell you that the child had become sick and she'd taken her home just to clean her up?

00:07:24Well, again, I have no record of her saying any such thing, sir.

00:07:30Miss Sellers did accompany you readily to the station.

00:07:32Yes.

00:07:33I took her to the police car waiting outside with the baby and we drove to the station without any trouble.

00:07:37Did she make any comment concerning Mrs. Bascombe at this time?

00:07:40I mean over and above that which we've already covered.

00:07:42She did say something about wondering what all the fuss was about.

00:07:45But did she say that she was sorry if she'd caused any anxiety to Mrs. Bascombe or worse to this effect?

00:07:51Not to my knowledge.

00:07:53She seemed...

00:07:55Seemed what, officer?

00:07:57Well, she seemed to think as if it was an awful lot of bother over nothing, sir.

00:08:01Well, I don't obviously wish to make light of the mother's very real terror at finding her baby missing,

00:08:07but as far as my client is concerned, that surely is just how it appeared.

00:08:10She said she had looked after Karen, fearing for her safety, left alone outside that shop.

00:08:16An hour later, she's charged with kidnapping her.

00:08:18Yes, I would say that she was quite correct to assume there'd been a lot of fuss over nothing.

00:08:24When you entered the defendant's house to find her bathing the child, officer,

00:08:28did you detect signs of vomit on its clothes?

00:08:31No, sir.

00:08:32But I didn't examine...

00:08:33I have no further re-examination, my lord.

00:08:35Officer, your point is well made that you cannot get everything down into your notebook

00:08:40when someone speaks quickly at length.

00:08:42Yes, my lord.

00:08:43But are you satisfied that you got everything down that you considered important to this matter?

00:08:48I understand that the defendant is charged with a very serious offence.

00:08:51Oh, I understand that, yes, my lord.

00:08:53If she'd made any comment to say that she'd taken Karen away,

00:08:56under some kind of impression that she'd permission to do so,

00:08:58then I would certainly have made a note of it.

00:09:01But she made no remark with any such meaning?

00:09:03No, my lord. None.

00:09:10What is your religion?

00:09:22Church of England.

00:09:23Take the testament in your right hand and read aloud the words on this card.

00:09:28I swear by almighty God

00:09:29that the evidence I shall give

00:09:31shall be the truth,

00:09:33the whole truth,

00:09:34and nothing but the truth.

00:09:36Now, you are Olivia Jane Bascom.

00:09:38Yes.

00:09:39And you live at number 11,

00:09:40St Peter's Terrace, Fulchester?

00:09:42Yes.

00:09:43Mrs. Bascom, how long have you known the defendant, Maureen Sellers?

00:09:46About two years.

00:09:47And how did you first come to meet her?

00:09:49I used to help out at the Bridge Street Youth Club.

00:09:51Maureen became a member about two years ago.

00:09:53How many members belong to this youth club?

00:09:55Well, I don't know about now,

00:09:56but then I suppose about 60, 70.

00:09:59And did you give Maureen any particular attention,

00:10:02more than to the others?

00:10:04Er, yes.

00:10:05Would you tell the court, please, why you did?

00:10:06Well, she was a strange girl.

00:10:09I felt sorry for her.

00:10:11In what way strange?

00:10:12Well, it's hard to say, really.

00:10:14Please try, Mrs. Bascom.

00:10:15You said you felt sorry for her.

00:10:17Why was this?

00:10:17Well, she was moody.

00:10:19I suppose that's the right word for it.

00:10:21She seemed very shy one minute,

00:10:22and the next she'd be, well, quite aggressive.

00:10:25But I suppose in general,

00:10:26shyness was her trouble, though.

00:10:28And you helped her to settle in,

00:10:29introduced her to the other members?

00:10:30Yes.

00:10:31Did you have any children at the time?

00:10:32Yes, Robert.

00:10:33He was five.

00:10:34Did Maureen meet your family?

00:10:35Once or twice, to begin with.

00:10:37Did anything occur to increase

00:10:39the number of times that she met them?

00:10:40Well, yes.

00:10:41Would you tell the court, please,

00:10:43briefly what that was?

00:10:44Well, after about a year,

00:10:45a year after she joined the club,

00:10:47she became, well, she became pregnant.

00:10:50She wouldn't say who the father was.

00:10:53She seemed to withdraw into her shell.

00:10:55Well, I tried to spend as much time as possible with her.

00:10:59We, that's my husband and I,

00:11:01tried to get her to snap out of it.

00:11:04It being what, Mrs Baskin?

00:11:06Oh, a very deep depression, my lord.

00:11:08Yes, I see.

00:11:09What was her attitude towards her unborn child?

00:11:12Oh, she loved it.

00:11:13I mean, whenever she did talk about it,

00:11:15it was always along the lines

00:11:16how much she wanted to be a mother.

00:11:19She got depressed because, well,

00:11:21young people can be cruel,

00:11:23and there were some girls at the club

00:11:25who were unkind to her.

00:11:27They're sarcastic, you know.

00:11:29Now, can we come to the events

00:11:30which tragically terminated her pregnancy?

00:11:32She tried to kill herself.

00:11:34Yes, how?

00:11:35She took an overdose of sleeping tablets.

00:11:38And where was this?

00:11:39At our house.

00:11:40I'm sorry, Mrs Baskin,

00:11:41the jury didn't quite catch that.

00:11:43At our house.

00:11:45Maureen often used to stay the night with us.

00:11:48She didn't get on very well with her foster parents

00:11:50and since, well, since her trouble,

00:11:53things were bad at home.

00:11:55She came round one afternoon last September.

00:11:58I could see she was very depressed.

00:12:00I mean, really bad, much worse than usual.

00:12:03She said she wanted Amanda.

00:12:04Amanda?

00:12:05Oh, she always called her unborn child Amanda.

00:12:08She said she wanted a girl

00:12:10and Amanda was her favourite name.

00:12:12She said if she acted as if it was a girl,

00:12:14well, it might turn out to be one.

00:12:16Yes, go on, please.

00:12:17Maureen came round to your house

00:12:19one afternoon last September.

00:12:21Well, I could see that she was very tired.

00:12:23I mean, her face was all drawn,

00:12:25kind of chalky white.

00:12:26She looked, I mean, she really looked awful.

00:12:30I had just had Karen at the time

00:12:32and I'd only been up a couple of days

00:12:34and I said I thought that the best thing for her

00:12:38was to get some rest.

00:12:40I said...

00:12:42Take your time, Mrs Baskin.

00:12:45Well, I really didn't mean what I said.

00:12:46I thought she ought to get some sleep.

00:12:48Well, the other thing was

00:12:50that I didn't feel up to talking to her much.

00:12:53I mean, I had Karen to feed.

00:12:55Mrs Baskin, no one is implying

00:12:56that you should either blame

00:12:58or make excuses for yourself.

00:12:59What did you do?

00:13:01Well, she said that she hadn't been sleeping well

00:13:04and that she was worried to death

00:13:05and depressed.

00:13:08And so,

00:13:09I gave her a couple of sleeping tablets

00:13:12that the doctor had given me some time before.

00:13:16I put her to bed in the spare room

00:13:18but I forgot about the sleeping tablets.

00:13:23I left them with her.

00:13:28About nine o'clock,

00:13:29I went in to see if she was all right.

00:13:32The bottle of tablets was empty

00:13:33and she...

00:13:35Well, I couldn't wake her.

00:13:36But she recovered in hospital.

00:13:38Yes, but she lost her child.

00:13:41Now, Mrs Baskin,

00:13:42I know it's painful for you

00:13:43to give evidence against Maureen,

00:13:44particularly after your close

00:13:45and sympathetic relationship with her

00:13:47during the time that she was in trouble.

00:13:49Nevertheless,

00:13:50I must ask you a few more questions.

00:13:52Now,

00:13:53the facts of this case are

00:13:54that on February the 10th last,

00:13:55you left your baby Karen

00:13:56in her pram

00:13:57outside the AWS supermarket

00:13:58in Fulchester

00:13:59to do some shopping.

00:14:00And when you came out,

00:14:01Karen and the pram were missing.

00:14:03A short while later,

00:14:04Karen was found with Maureen

00:14:06at her home.

00:14:06Yes.

00:14:07These facts are not in dispute.

00:14:09No, no, my lord.

00:14:10However,

00:14:10she claims you gave her permission

00:14:12to take Karen for a walk.

00:14:14Is that so?

00:14:15No, no, it isn't.

00:14:16She claims you gave her

00:14:17an open invitation

00:14:18to look after Karen

00:14:19at any time

00:14:20she felt like it

00:14:21and that on this particular occasion,

00:14:23on February the 10th,

00:14:24while you were shopping

00:14:24inside the supermarket,

00:14:26she was simply taking up

00:14:27this previously offered invitation.

00:14:28Is that true?

00:14:29I'm sorry,

00:14:30but I'm afraid it isn't.

00:14:32Did you at any time

00:14:33tell her

00:14:34she could take Karen for walks

00:14:35or indeed perform

00:14:36any kind of activity

00:14:37when you were not present?

00:14:38No, never.

00:14:40Now, when you emerged

00:14:41from the supermarket

00:14:42to find that Karen had gone,

00:14:44what did you do?

00:14:45Well, I'm afraid to say

00:14:45that I panicked.

00:14:47I can't really remember

00:14:48much at all

00:14:49until I was talking

00:14:49to a policewoman

00:14:50in the police station.

00:14:51I mean, I don't recall

00:14:52how I got there.

00:14:53I really can't remember

00:14:54Can you recall any questions

00:14:55put to you by the policewoman,

00:14:56Constable Jenkins?

00:14:57Yes, I remember she asked me

00:14:59if I could think of anyone

00:15:00who could possibly

00:15:00have taken Karen.

00:15:02And what did you say?

00:15:03Well, first I said no,

00:15:04but then...

00:15:05Yes, but then?

00:15:07Well, I remembered Maureen.

00:15:09What made you think

00:15:10that Maureen

00:15:10might have taken her?

00:15:11My lord,

00:15:11this line of questioning

00:15:12is potentially inadmissible.

00:15:14But it may clarify

00:15:15actions which are relevant

00:15:17to the matter,

00:15:17Mr Harvesty.

00:15:18I will allow it.

00:15:19Oh, thank you, my lord.

00:15:20Why did you think

00:15:21of Maureen, Mrs Baskin?

00:15:22Well, since she lost her baby,

00:15:25I thought I detected...

00:15:26Oh, I don't know.

00:15:28A kind of resentment

00:15:29in her manner.

00:15:31Not all the time.

00:15:33I thought that she was jealous.

00:15:36Jealous of what?

00:15:37Well, this isn't easy

00:15:38for me to say.

00:15:40You have the full sympathy

00:15:41of the court, Mrs Baskin,

00:15:42but we must get to the truth

00:15:44of this sad affair.

00:15:46Now, of what was Maureen jealous?

00:15:48Of my children,

00:15:49of my family,

00:15:50of my home.

00:15:51Karen was only a little older

00:15:53than her child would have been.

00:15:54Hmm.

00:15:55Did Maureen help you

00:15:56with Karen at all?

00:15:57Yes, I thought

00:15:58it would be good for her.

00:15:59What kind of help

00:15:59did she give?

00:16:00Oh, she used to help

00:16:01bath her, dress her,

00:16:02you know, simple things like that.

00:16:04She seemed happy doing it,

00:16:05so I encouraged her

00:16:07to take an interest in Karen.

00:16:08But you said

00:16:08that you never let Maureen

00:16:10take care of Karen

00:16:11unless you were present.

00:16:12Yes, that's right.

00:16:13Was this because

00:16:14you already detected

00:16:15an element of jealousy

00:16:16in her attitude towards you?

00:16:17Oh, no, no, not at all.

00:16:18I mean, Maureen was only 17.

00:16:19I would never give her

00:16:20any of my children

00:16:21to look after by herself.

00:16:22Neither would I give them

00:16:23to anyone else of that age.

00:16:25And on February the 10th,

00:16:26you did not give

00:16:27the defendant permission

00:16:28to take away Karen

00:16:28from the supermarket?

00:16:30Nor did you at any time

00:16:31before indicate to her

00:16:32that she could take

00:16:33your child away

00:16:34in the manner she did?

00:16:35That's right.

00:16:38Mrs. Bascom,

00:16:39you have an obvious

00:16:40and admirable sympathy

00:16:42for the defendant?

00:16:43Well, I bear no malice towards her.

00:16:45I mean,

00:16:45I would give anything

00:16:46not to go through this.

00:16:47Yes, I'm sure you would.

00:16:49Maureen says,

00:16:50as you know,

00:16:51that she was under

00:16:52the impression

00:16:52that you told her

00:16:53she could look after Karen

00:16:55whenever she liked.

00:16:56I know,

00:16:57but it isn't true.

00:16:59You've said that

00:17:00you let Maureen

00:17:01help you with Karen

00:17:02because you thought

00:17:03it would be good for her.

00:17:04Yes.

00:17:05You mean,

00:17:06help her to get over

00:17:07the tragic loss

00:17:08of her own child?

00:17:08Yes.

00:17:10How far did this helping go?

00:17:11How do you mean?

00:17:12Well, for instance,

00:17:13did you let her

00:17:14hold the baby?

00:17:16Did she do anything

00:17:17other than

00:17:17just watch you tend to her?

00:17:19Well, of course.

00:17:20I tried to increase

00:17:21the amount of involvement

00:17:22she had with Karen.

00:17:23I mean,

00:17:23obviously she just

00:17:24didn't sit there

00:17:25and watch me.

00:17:26That would have done

00:17:26no good at all.

00:17:27Mrs. Bascom,

00:17:28do you have any qualifications

00:17:29in the field of social work?

00:17:30No.

00:17:31Or psychiatry?

00:17:32No.

00:17:32I'm not,

00:17:33for one moment,

00:17:34suggesting that you were wrong

00:17:35in adopting this policy

00:17:36towards Maureen

00:17:37of, as you put it,

00:17:39increasing her involvement

00:17:40with Karen,

00:17:41but I do suggest

00:17:42that your lack

00:17:43of expert knowledge

00:17:44in this very delicate

00:17:45subject could have

00:17:46caused harm

00:17:47rather than good.

00:17:48I've failed to see how.

00:17:50Oh, surely not.

00:17:51Well, I do.

00:17:51What harm could it have done?

00:17:52Why, Mrs. Bascom,

00:17:53the very harm

00:17:53which you yourself

00:17:54have mentioned.

00:17:55That I mentioned?

00:17:56The prosecution,

00:17:57supported by you,

00:17:58has offered

00:17:59the motive of jealousy

00:18:00for Maureen's

00:18:01taking the baby

00:18:02away from the supermarket.

00:18:03Well, jealousy

00:18:04is harmful,

00:18:05is it not,

00:18:06Mrs. Bascom?

00:18:07It might be said

00:18:08that it was you

00:18:09that made her jealous.

00:18:11Unwittingly, of course,

00:18:12but while trying

00:18:13to help her.

00:18:15Correct me

00:18:15if I'm wrong,

00:18:16Mr. Harvesty,

00:18:17but you appear

00:18:17to be pleading

00:18:18the case

00:18:18for the prosecution.

00:18:20No, my lord.

00:18:21I'm simply trying

00:18:21to establish

00:18:22that Mrs. Bascom's

00:18:23well-intentioned gestures

00:18:24towards Maureen

00:18:25created an atmosphere

00:18:27of ambiguity.

00:18:28That her lack

00:18:29of expert knowledge,

00:18:30her amateur psychiatry,

00:18:32caused her

00:18:33to give Maureen

00:18:34impressions which

00:18:34perhaps she didn't intend.

00:18:35I did not engage

00:18:37in amateur psychiatry

00:18:38or anything like it

00:18:39and I resent

00:18:40your saying I did.

00:18:41Now calm yourself,

00:18:42Mrs. Bascom.

00:18:42Your point is well made,

00:18:44Mr. Harvesty.

00:18:45I see no reason

00:18:46to go further

00:18:46along this path.

00:18:47It's far too speculative

00:18:48for my liking.

00:18:50As your lordship pleases.

00:18:53Mrs. Bascom,

00:18:54you've said

00:18:54you never entrusted

00:18:56either of your children

00:18:57to young people

00:18:58for any period of time.

00:19:00That is true.

00:19:01Do you go out

00:19:02in the evenings?

00:19:03Er, no, not often.

00:19:04Occasionally?

00:19:05Oh, now and again, yes.

00:19:06What arrangements

00:19:07do you make

00:19:07about your children?

00:19:09Er, oh, well...

00:19:11Do you employ

00:19:12babysitters?

00:19:14Yes.

00:19:15Do you always go

00:19:16to a babysitting agency?

00:19:18No.

00:19:18Where do you go then?

00:19:19I didn't think

00:19:20about babysitting

00:19:21when I said...

00:19:22Where do you go,

00:19:22Mrs. Bascom,

00:19:23to find babysitters?

00:19:25Well, there's

00:19:25a young girl next door,

00:19:27Jenny, the daughter.

00:19:28Yes, how old is she?

00:19:29Well, actually 14,

00:19:30but we're never out

00:19:31for more than

00:19:31three hours at a time.

00:19:32Do you always

00:19:33employ this girl next door?

00:19:34Almost always, yes.

00:19:35Almost?

00:19:36Well, very occasionally.

00:19:37She isn't available.

00:19:38But the only reason

00:19:39I use her is

00:19:40that if the children

00:19:41woke up or anything

00:19:42went wrong,

00:19:42she has strict instructions

00:19:43to call her parents in.

00:19:45That is the only reason

00:19:46I use her.

00:19:46And when she hasn't

00:19:47been available?

00:19:49Mrs. Bascom,

00:19:51did Maureen Sellers,

00:19:52the defendant,

00:19:53ever perform

00:19:53babysitting services

00:19:54for you?

00:19:55Did you ever

00:19:56leave your children

00:19:57alone with Maureen

00:19:58during the evening?

00:19:59Yes, once when Jenny

00:20:02was away on holiday.

00:20:04Now, Mrs. Bascom,

00:20:06you previously told us

00:20:07that you never let

00:20:08Maureen look after

00:20:09Karen unless you

00:20:10were present.

00:20:11Now you tell us

00:20:12that you left the child

00:20:13completely in Maureen's

00:20:14care for a whole evening.

00:20:16Are you sure that it

00:20:17wasn't for more

00:20:17than just one evening?

00:20:18Yes, I am perfectly sure.

00:20:20It was one evening

00:20:21a few months ago.

00:20:23It completely

00:20:23slipped my memory.

00:20:24It slipped your memory?

00:20:26Yes, I'm sorry.

00:20:26I made a mistake.

00:20:28I completely overlooked

00:20:29that evening when

00:20:30Maureen came round

00:20:31to babysit.

00:20:32But what I wanted to say

00:20:33was that she never

00:20:34took Karen out

00:20:35alone during the day.

00:20:37I apologise, my lord.

00:20:39I can only say

00:20:40it wasn't a lie.

00:20:41It was an honest mistake.

00:20:43Yes, I'm sure it was,

00:20:44Mrs. Bascom.

00:20:46I should like to explore

00:20:47the possibility that you

00:20:48made another honest mistake

00:20:50in that even,

00:20:51unwittingly perhaps,

00:20:52you once told Maureen

00:20:54that she was welcome

00:20:55to take Karen off

00:20:56for a stroll

00:20:57in the pram

00:20:58whenever she wished

00:20:59to do so.

00:21:00Now, I do want you

00:21:00to be quite certain

00:21:01that it hasn't

00:21:02slipped your memory

00:21:03like the incident

00:21:05of the babysitting.

00:21:05I swear I have

00:21:06never given Maureen

00:21:08the slightest impression

00:21:09that she could do that.

00:21:10You sound very sure.

00:21:12I am.

00:21:13I wouldn't say I was

00:21:14if I wasn't.

00:21:16Look, I'm very fond

00:21:18of Maureen

00:21:18and it has given me

00:21:19a great deal of pain

00:21:21to give evidence

00:21:21against her.

00:21:23But I must say this.

00:21:25If she was concerned

00:21:26about Karen's safety

00:21:27when she saw her

00:21:28sleeping outside

00:21:29the supermarket,

00:21:30why on earth

00:21:31didn't she wait

00:21:32with her until I came out?

00:21:33Or at least come

00:21:34and find me

00:21:35and tell me

00:21:35what she wanted to do?

00:21:36I mean, why?

00:21:38Just to take her off

00:21:39like that.

00:21:40She must have known

00:21:41I wouldn't know

00:21:41where she was.

00:21:42She must have known

00:21:43I would have been frantic.

00:21:45Even if I had given her

00:21:47the idea that she could

00:21:48take Karen for walks

00:21:49whenever she wanted,

00:21:50surely she didn't think

00:21:51she could do it

00:21:52without telling me.

00:21:53Maureen will say

00:21:54that she hadn't meant

00:21:55to delay her return

00:21:56with the baby

00:21:56to the shop

00:21:57but that the baby

00:21:58had become sick

00:21:59and she'd taken her home

00:22:00to clean her up.

00:22:01Did you not notice

00:22:02signs of vomit

00:22:02on Karen's clothes

00:22:03when she was returned?

00:22:04No.

00:22:05Did you examine

00:22:05Karen closely?

00:22:06Well, quite frankly,

00:22:07no.

00:22:08I was so glad

00:22:08to see her back

00:22:09safe and sound.

00:22:10No, I didn't.

00:22:10So there could have

00:22:11been stains there

00:22:12although you didn't

00:22:13notice them.

00:22:14Oh, I suppose so.

00:22:17Mrs. Baskin,

00:22:18is it right

00:22:18that Maureen

00:22:19didn't stay

00:22:20overnight at your house

00:22:21any more

00:22:22after some time

00:22:23in December

00:22:23shortly before Christmas?

00:22:25Yes.

00:22:25Did her overnight

00:22:26visiting stop

00:22:27for any particular reason?

00:22:28No, I don't think so.

00:22:29Did you, for instance,

00:22:30have a row with her?

00:22:32Maureen and I

00:22:33have never had a row

00:22:34as such.

00:22:34Was there not

00:22:35some argument

00:22:36over whether

00:22:37she could spend Christmas

00:22:38with you and your family?

00:22:40Well, there was

00:22:40a kind of discussion.

00:22:43I said I thought

00:22:44she ought to spend Christmas

00:22:45with her family

00:22:46and she did,

00:22:46that was all.

00:22:47I suggest

00:22:47that the issue

00:22:48did provoke a row.

00:22:49No.

00:22:50Isn't it true

00:22:51that by this time

00:22:51you had become concerned

00:22:53about Maureen's

00:22:54relationship with your child?

00:22:55Her relationship?

00:22:56I don't know what you mean.

00:22:57Mrs. Baskin,

00:22:57weren't you becoming

00:22:58just a little jealous

00:22:59of your baby's

00:23:00obvious attachment

00:23:01to Maureen?

00:23:02Of course not.

00:23:03How can you be jealous

00:23:04of a three-month-old baby?

00:23:06I might ask you that,

00:23:07Mrs. Baskin.

00:23:09And you're quite sure

00:23:10that there was

00:23:10no feeling of jealousy

00:23:11behind your row

00:23:12with Maureen

00:23:13last December?

00:23:14It was not a row.

00:23:15It was a discussion.

00:23:16And there was no jealousy

00:23:17at all?

00:23:17No, none at all.

00:23:19Well, we shall hear

00:23:19evidence from Maureen

00:23:20that she believes

00:23:21there was.

00:23:22I never wanted

00:23:24all this fuss

00:23:25in the first place.

00:23:26I just don't know

00:23:27why she's saying

00:23:28these things.

00:23:30She took the baby.

00:23:33She's got to make up

00:23:34some story

00:23:34to explain it,

00:23:36I suppose.

00:23:37The case of the Queen

00:24:00against Sellers

00:24:01will be resumed

00:24:01tomorrow

00:24:02in the Crown Court.

00:24:03Did the

00:24:33Maureen Sellers kidnap Karen Bascom.

00:24:36While the child's mother, Mrs Olivia Bascom, was shopping,

00:24:39Karen was left sleeping in a pram by the shop door.

00:24:42When she came out, pram and baby were gone.

00:24:46An hour later, Karen was found safe and unharmed

00:24:48with Maureen Sellers at her home.

00:24:51Miss Sellers claims that Mrs Bascom, with whom she was friendly,

00:24:53had given her a standing invitation to help look after baby Karen

00:24:57and take her for walks in the pram.

00:25:00But Mrs Bascom says she gave no invitation of any kind.

00:25:04As a result, Maureen Sellers appears before Fulchester Crown Court

00:25:07on a charge of kidnapping.

00:25:09I shall give, be the truth, the whole truth,

00:25:11and nothing but the truth.

00:25:13You are Dr Richard Watmore, a practising psychiatrist,

00:25:16and you live at No. 3 Hamilton Terrace, Fulchester?

00:25:18Yes, that's right.

00:25:19Are you acquainted with the defendant, Maureen Sellers?

00:25:22Yes.

00:25:22In what way?

00:25:23She was a patient of mine.

00:25:25Have you been subpoenaed?

00:25:27Yes, my lord, I would not give evidence,

00:25:29otherwise.

00:25:30For how long was the defendant a patient, Doctor?

00:25:32From July to December of last year.

00:25:34Would you explain how she came to be a patient, please?

00:25:37She was brought to me by Mr Bascom.

00:25:40The husband of Mrs Bascom, who was a friend of the defendant?

00:25:43Yes.

00:25:44And what was the complaint, Doctor?

00:25:46Miss Sellers was four months pregnant.

00:25:48She'd been having a series of severe depressions.

00:25:51Mr Bascom asked me if I would see her.

00:25:54He and I have been friends for some time.

00:25:56I said I would be glad to, if Miss Sellers was willing.

00:25:59Was she?

00:26:00Yes, she didn't object.

00:26:01She was suspicious at first, but then later on she became more cooperative.

00:26:06And over this period, July to December, how often did you see her?

00:26:10Between July and September, perhaps once a fortnight, whenever she wanted to, whenever she fell into a depression.

00:26:16But then later on, after she attempted suicide, I saw her much more frequently.

00:26:21How frequently?

00:26:21Once a week, sometimes twice.

00:26:24I see.

00:26:24So would it be correct to say then, Doctor, that particularly after Miss Sellers tried to kill herself and lost her unborn child,

00:26:30you maintained a close contact with her?

00:26:32Yes, very close.

00:26:33And do you feel confident that you can make a full and detailed analysis of the defendant's mental condition after September last year?

00:26:42Psychiatry is often a matter of opinion, but the opinion is always based on knowledge, acquired from training over a long period of time.

00:26:51Yes, Doctor, but accepting that you are only expressing your own view, can you tell the court how you assessed Miss Sellers' reactions?

00:26:59After she lost her child, she became morose, at times melancholic.

00:27:04She then appeared to recover, principally in my view due to the patience and help provided by Mr. and Mrs. Bascombe.

00:27:12Mrs. Bascombe gave birth to a daughter shortly before Miss Sellers' suicide attempt,

00:27:16and she actively encouraged Miss Sellers to take an interest in the child.

00:27:21Did you agree with Mrs. Bascombe's efforts in this direction?

00:27:24Yes, I saw Miss Sellers improve more quickly than I would have expected.

00:27:28At first, that is.

00:27:29Yes, would you explain, please, what you mean by at first?

00:27:32I knew Maureen was a moody girl, very much prone to highs and lows,

00:27:36moments of elation followed by periods of depression.

00:27:40Up until December, I saw her regularly.

00:27:42She grew animated when she talked of Karen, the Bascombe's new baby,

00:27:46She was glad that Mrs. Bascombe allowed her to bathe her, give her a bottle,

00:27:52generally help around the place.

00:27:54Did she ever tell you that she was given exclusive charge of Karen?

00:27:57Yes, she didn't.

00:27:59But I had expressed a doubt to Mrs. Bascombe on the wisdom of allowing Miss Sellers to take complete charge.

00:28:06I said too much responsibility could have an adverse effect

00:28:09on someone slowly getting over a personal tragedy.

00:28:13And what then occurred during your consultations with Maureen during December, Doctor?

00:28:18About the middle of the month, Maureen came to my consulting rooms as usual,

00:28:22but this time she had changed.

00:28:25I put it down to a mood, one of her low periods, but her manner was different.

00:28:31In what way?

00:28:31She immediately began by making several double-edged remarks about the Bascombes,

00:28:37especially Mrs. Bascombe.

00:28:39Can you give some indication of them?

00:28:41They weren't particularly hostile, but they marked a definite change in her manner.

00:28:47I recall once she referred to Mrs. Bascombe as all safe and snug in her little nest.

00:28:53She also said how unfair it was that some people could have dozens of children,

00:28:58whereas others could not.

00:29:00In your view, Doctor, what motive would you say was behind remarks of this kind?

00:29:04I was obliged to conclude Miss Sellers had developed a jealousy of Mrs. Bascombe.

00:29:09About what, specifically?

00:29:11Over Karen.

00:29:13And did you discuss this with Miss Sellers?

00:29:14One cannot simply tell a patient in so many words to stop being jealous.

00:29:22Certainly not someone in such a precarious condition as Maureen.

00:29:25Well, quite, but did you, so to speak, get your message across to her?

00:29:29By degrees.

00:29:31I told her there was no reason why she should not have children of her own later,

00:29:34as many as she liked.

00:29:36I said she was getting valuable experience on how to care for babies through Mrs. Bascombe.

00:29:41How did she react?

00:29:42Not well, I'm afraid.

00:29:43I saw her twice more,

00:29:45and she continued to make sniping references to the cosy atmosphere at the Bascombes,

00:29:51and also to say she thought Mrs. Bascombe was not looking after Karen properly.

00:29:56Yes, Doctor.

00:29:57Now, to summarise, would you say that the defendant developed a jealousy of Mrs. Bascombe,

00:30:01created principally by Karen Bascombe?

00:30:04Regretfully, yes.

00:30:06Thank you, Doctor.

00:30:08Doctor, did you learn anything of Maureen's early life?

00:30:12Yes.

00:30:12Would you tell the court then briefly about her upbringing?

00:30:16My lord, I fail to see how a resume of the defendant's life is pertinent to the matter before the court.

00:30:21Mr. Harvesty?

00:30:21My lord, my client has been described as being jealous of Mrs. Bascombe.

00:30:25I am entitled to cross-examine, to relate that suggestion, and to establish that when she took the child, she did not do so out of jealousy, but believed she was acting quite properly.

00:30:35Yes, very well.

00:30:38Well, I would ask you to be as brief as you can, Doctor.

00:30:41Miss Sellers was given over to foster parents when she was three, and has not seen her real mother and father, I think, since she was five or six.

00:30:48Her foster home was comfortable, but for some years the other children, three of them, never properly accepted Maureen, and frequently made her life awkward by teasing, sometimes ignoring her.

00:31:02She once told me she knew how a baby cuckoo felt in a strange nest.

00:31:08Miss Sellers seems to deal quite often in ornithological terms.

00:31:12Yes, that is true.

00:31:14You think that the security of the nest, so to speak, was possibly something which Maureen envied?

00:31:21Yes, I think that is fair to say.

00:31:24Go on, please, Doctor.

00:31:25There isn't much to go on about.

00:31:28Well, did the treatment she received in her foster home as she grew up mark her character in any way, affect her attitude towards life, say?

00:31:36In that her depressions, before losing her child, were brought about often by other people being harsh or rude to her, yes.

00:31:45Would you say that Maureen perhaps misinterpreted the words of others?

00:31:49Took them to heart more than they were meant to be, that is.

00:31:52Perhaps even took harmless remarks for personal insults.

00:31:58It is impossible to generalise, of course.

00:32:01Yes, of course, Doctor.

00:32:03But?

00:32:03Yes, I think that sometimes happened.

00:32:09Coming now to the notion that Maureen was moved by a feeling of jealousy for Mrs. Bascombe and took her baby as some kind of manifestation of this envy.

00:32:17Well, my lord, Doctor Watmore is a psychiatrist of considerable reputation and experience.

00:32:21I'm sure that he, like I, would resent anyone saying that he dealt in notions.

00:32:25I will rephrase the question, my lord.

00:32:27I don't want to offend anyone.

00:32:28Doctor, your view that Maureen was jealous?

00:32:35Yes.

00:32:35You supported this view by quoting some double-edged comments which you say she made during early December last year about her saying that Mrs. Bascombe was all snug and cosy in her little nest and so on.

00:32:46Yes.

00:32:47Did Maureen tell you of a row which she had with Mrs. Bascombe at this time?

00:32:51A row?

00:32:52Well, I can't recall anything in particular.

00:32:54That concerned Christmas?

00:32:57Maureen will say that she'd asked Mrs. Bascombe if she might spend Christmas with them.

00:33:02And Mrs. Bascombe had refused in spite of the fact that Mr. Bascombe had approved.

00:33:07I learned nothing about this.

00:33:09This rejection might well explain Maureen's change of attitude towards Mrs. Bascombe, might it not, Doctor?

00:33:14It is possible, yes.

00:33:16All snug and cosy in her little nest?

00:33:18It makes perfect sense, doesn't it, if it follows this rejection of her wish to spend Christmas with the Bascombes, doesn't it?

00:33:26It could, yes.

00:33:27And such an explanation for Maureen's different manner would have absolutely nothing to do with jealousy towards Mrs. Bascombe's baby.

00:33:35I repeat, Miss Sellers gave me no details of any row with Mrs. Bascombe of this sort.

00:33:44Doctor, after having decided that Maureen was acting out of jealousy, did you discuss your findings with Mrs. Bascombe?

00:33:50Why, yes.

00:33:51Did she agree?

00:33:52I explained why I had come to this conclusion and, yes, she said it sounded right, that it made sense.

00:33:59I advised her to be very careful with Maureen and try not to arouse an unwarranted but nevertheless real antipathy in the girl.

00:34:07Yes, but my point, Doctor, is that Mrs. Bascombe had not discussed with you the possibility of jealousy before you had made your own assessment.

00:34:15That is, you were the first to mention the likelihood that jealousy existed between Mrs. Bascombe and Maureen.

00:34:21Yes.

00:34:22Thank you, Doctor.

00:34:23Doctor Watmore, I would like to put this to you.

00:34:26In your opinion, when Miss Sellers took the child away from its mother during this shopping trip, could she possibly not have been aware of what she was doing?

00:34:35I think it very unlikely, my lord.

00:34:39During the period Miss Sellers was coming to see me, I never detected any defect in her memory

00:34:44or any likelihood she might behave without awareness of what she was doing.

00:34:48I am most grateful to your lordship for clarifying this point, but as your lordship knows,

00:34:54the defence case is that the defendant is perfectly well mentally and believes that she was acting quite correctly.

00:35:00Yes, I do know it, thank you, Mr. Harvesty.

00:35:02My interest in this matter was purely personal.

00:35:05My lord.

00:35:06Do you wish to re-examine, Mr. Logan?

00:35:08No, no, thank you, my lord.

00:35:09You may stand down then, Dr. Watmore.

00:35:12That is the case for the prosecution, my lord.

00:35:14I call the defendant, Maureen Sellers.

00:35:19You are Maureen Sellers of 64 Penrose Villas, Fulchester?

00:35:45Yes.

00:35:46With whom do you live at this address, Miss Sellers?

00:35:48My foster parents, Mr. and Mrs. Brain.

00:35:50Does anyone else live there at present?

00:35:52Well, I've got two foster brothers and a sister, but only one lives there now, Michael.

00:35:56The others have left, got married in that.

00:35:57Yes, I see.

00:35:58Miss Sellers, you know Mrs. Bascom, don't you?

00:36:01Yes.

00:36:02I'm not going to retrace ground which we've already covered in this court,

00:36:05but is it true that you met Mrs. Bascom two years ago at the youth club in Bridge Street?

00:36:10That's right.

00:36:11She used to help her husband run things.

00:36:12Mrs. Bascom has described how you became friends and she says that you were shy when you joined

00:36:19and she tried to make you feel more at home.

00:36:21Do you agree with that?

00:36:23Pretty well.

00:36:23That's more or less how it was.

00:36:25Coming now to the distressing events of last September.

00:36:28You were carrying a child, but you lost it, didn't you?

00:36:31Through a miscarriage.

00:36:32Yes.

00:36:34Shortly after this, Mrs. Bascom gave birth to her second child, Karen.

00:36:38Yes.

00:36:39Were you still friendly with the Bascoms at this time?

00:36:41Yes, very.

00:36:41They'd been very kind to me.

00:36:43Oh, would you tell the court in what way they'd been kind?

00:36:46Well, my foster parents hadn't been too thrilled, to say the least, about me getting pregnant.

00:36:50And especially after, well, after I took all those sleeping pills.

00:36:55Anyway, Olivia, Mrs. Bascom, let me stay at her house even when she was laid up with Karen.

00:37:00Were you out of bed by the time Karen was born?

00:37:02Yes, I'd been up two weeks or so.

00:37:04Did you help around the house at all?

00:37:06Of course I.

00:37:06That is why Mrs. Bascom was still indisposed.

00:37:08Of course I did.

00:37:09Olivia was always saying it wasn't necessary, but, well, she'd taken me in.

00:37:13The least I could do was clean the place up a bit and cook dinner for her while she was

00:37:17still in bed after Karen came.

00:37:19It was your idea, say, to do the housekeeping chores?

00:37:22Yes, I insisted.

00:37:23Did you also help with the new baby?

00:37:25Yes.

00:37:25In what ways?

00:37:27Well, Olivia didn't breastfeed Karen, so I helped make up the bottles.

00:37:31She showed me how, and I started by, you know, sterilising everything, then warming the milk.

00:37:36Then she would show me how to hold the baby to feed her, and sometimes I gave her the bottle myself.

00:37:41Then there was bath in her.

00:37:42I'd do that now and again.

00:37:44Would it be true to say, Miss Sellers, that as well as making you feel useful about the house,

00:37:48Mrs. Bascom was also helping you to get over the tragic loss of your own child?

00:37:53Yes, definitely.

00:37:54Did she succeed?

00:37:55Yes.

00:37:55Well, I didn't have time to brood over it.

00:37:57That was all I needed, looking back, just a chance to keep my mind on other things.

00:38:01As the weeks went by, were you given other opportunities to look after Karen?

00:38:05Oh, yes.

00:38:06What, for instance?

00:38:07I used to babysit now and then.

00:38:09In the evenings?

00:38:10I only did it in the evenings a few times.

00:38:14Mostly Olivia got in the girl from next door, Jenny Clements, because she said her parents

00:38:18would know what to do if either the kids were sick or anything.

00:38:21Jenny was to nip next door and get her mother.

00:38:23Yes, I see.

00:38:25You babysat at other times, then?

00:38:27During the day.

00:38:28During the day.

00:38:29When, for instance?

00:38:30Well, sometimes Olivia wanted to nip out to the shops.

00:38:33Usually Karen would be asleep, but I'd just stay with the baby to keep an eye on her till

00:38:37Olivia got back.

00:38:39Did you ever take Karen out in her pram for a walk?

00:38:42Yes.

00:38:43With Mrs. Bascom or alone?

00:38:45Both.

00:38:45You sometimes took Karen out in her pram alone?

00:38:49Yes.

00:38:49Mrs. Bascom has said that you at no time took Karen out in her pram by yourself.

00:38:54Well, she's wrong, isn't she?

00:38:55Why should she deny this took place?

00:38:57Oh, my lord, the defendant is being asked for conjecture.

00:39:00Yes, you know better than that, Mr. Harvesty.

00:39:02My lord.

00:39:02Well, where did you go on these walks alone with the pram?

00:39:08The park or the recreation ground round the corner from Olivia's house.

00:39:11Not far.

00:39:12Now then, Miss Elizabeth, let's come to the point in dispute between you and Mrs. Bascom.

00:39:17Did she ever give you an open invitation to take Karen for walks?

00:39:22Yes.

00:39:22You have used these words, open invitation, have you not, to describe the arrangement?

00:39:27Yes.

00:39:27Would you tell the court exactly what you mean by open invitation?

00:39:32When I was taking Karen up to the park quite a bit in her pram, Olivia said to me,

00:39:37Maureen, Karen seems to like you. You can see how she's taken to you.

00:39:41Then she said, you can take her for walks any time you feel like it.

00:39:45Are those her exact words? Can you remember?

00:39:47Her exact words.

00:39:49On February the 10th last, you saw Karen in her pram outside the AWS supermarket, did you not?

00:39:54Yes.

00:39:55Now then, Maureen, in your own words, would you tell the court exactly what you did next?

00:40:00I saw Karen asleep in her pram. There were lots of people about walking past in that,

00:40:05and there were hundreds of people inside the shop.

00:40:07I couldn't see Olivia, so I remembered what she told me about taking Karen for a walk any time I felt like it,

00:40:13so I took the brake off the pram and pushed it up the road.

00:40:16It has been said by Mrs. Bascom that it's very strange that you didn't tell her what you were doing,

00:40:21that you didn't go into the shop to look for her.

00:40:23Well, I was worried about the baby being left alone in the street.

00:40:26The supermarket, AWS, is huge. It could have taken me hours to find Olivia.

00:40:31So I just wheeled the pram round so she'd be safe while her mother was shopping.

00:40:35How far did you intend to take the baby?

00:40:37Well, I was going to wheel it round a few streets and come back to the shop.

00:40:40But that is not what happened.

00:40:41No.

00:40:42Why didn't you stick to your original plan?

00:40:45Well, I'd gone about 100 yards and Karen woke up,

00:40:49so I propped her up on the cushion so she could see out the pram like she always wants,

00:40:53and suddenly she was sick.

00:40:55It went all over her clothes and hands.

00:40:57Anyway, she started to cry, and I was only a little way from home.

00:41:01From your home?

00:41:02Yes, so I decided to nip in and clean her up.

00:41:04She hates being wet or dirty, and I knew she'd cry and cry until I got her cleaned up,

00:41:10so I just nipped in the house.

00:41:11Who was at home?

00:41:13Just Michael, my foster brother.

00:41:15What did you do then?

00:41:16Well, I started by trying to wipe the sick off with a flannel,

00:41:19but in the end I gave her a proper bath.

00:41:21Maureen, how long did all this take?

00:41:24I suppose about over half an hour.

00:41:27Did you do anything at all to try and tell Mrs. Bascombe where the baby was?

00:41:32Yes, I asked Michael to go out and find Olivia and tell her what had happened

00:41:36and that Karen was at my place.

00:41:38And did he?

00:41:39Yes, he went out, but he came back and said he couldn't find her.

00:41:42About five minutes after that, the police came and accused me of kidnapping camp.

00:41:45It was ridiculous.

00:41:47Maureen, have you ever before looked after Karen in her pram

00:41:51while her mother had gone shopping?

00:41:53A few times, yes.

00:41:54We often wheeled the pram round together.

00:41:57Now and then I'd stay with it while Olivia nipped in to buy something.

00:42:01Bearing in mind that Mrs. Bascombe had said to you,

00:42:04take Karen off for a walk whenever you feel like it,

00:42:08did you believe you were doing anything unacceptable

00:42:10when you took Karen away from the supermarket on February the 10th?

00:42:14No, all that happened was that I got held up when Karen was sick.

00:42:17That was the whole trouble.

00:42:19You've heard Mrs. Bascombe say that she thought you took the baby maliciously,

00:42:23that you did it because you were jealous of the baby.

00:42:25I was never jealous of Karen.

00:42:27That's a ridiculous thing to say.

00:42:28And Dr. Whatmore has said that your behaviour towards the end of last December

00:42:32showed a certain jealousy towards Mrs. Bascombe.

00:42:37He's a friend of theirs, isn't he?

00:42:38Maureen, did you refer to Mrs. Bascombe in or around December of last year

00:42:45as being all snug and cosy in her little nest?

00:42:50Yes.

00:42:51Would you speak up, please, Maureen?

00:42:53I did say something like that.

00:42:55Out of jealousy?

00:42:56No, of course not.

00:42:58Oh, it was stupid.

00:42:59I can see that now.

00:43:01It all came out because, well, we'd had a row.

00:43:04You and Mrs. Bascombe?

00:43:06Yes.

00:43:06Over what?

00:43:07I wanted to spend Christmas with them.

00:43:09I didn't want to go home.

00:43:10I got sort of settled.

00:43:12Anyhow, George, Mr. Bascombe, had said it was all right.

00:43:15And then a couple of days later,

00:43:17Olivia said she thought I ought to go back to my family,

00:43:20my foster family.

00:43:21Well, I got upset.

00:43:23I thought she didn't want me around anymore.

00:43:25I thought she might be jealous of me.

00:43:27You see, Karen liked me and always wanted me to pick her up.

00:43:30So you said these things to Dr. Whatmore out of pique?

00:43:34Yes.

00:43:35And also those things about Mrs. Bascombe not looking after Karen properly?

00:43:40Yes, I'm not proud of that.

00:43:41It was daft, I know.

00:43:43I didn't mean it.

00:43:44One final point then, Maureen.

00:43:46The police officer who found you at home with Karen

00:43:49says that you referred to the child as Amanda.

00:43:53Why was that?

00:43:54There was nothing to that.

00:43:56Not really.

00:43:57Quite honestly, I don't like the name Karen very much.

00:44:00I used to call her Amanda when Olivia wasn't there.

00:44:04I like Amanda, that's all.

00:44:06Thank you, Maureen.

00:44:07Would you remain there, please?

00:44:10Miss Sellers, you talk of an open invitation to take the child away,

00:44:13and I quote you,

00:44:14whenever you felt like it.

00:44:16Olivia said that.

00:44:17Now, do you honestly expect the court to believe that

00:44:19even had Mrs. Bascombe said those words to you,

00:44:22which she denies,

00:44:23but even if she had said this,

00:44:25that this meant that you had permission to whisk the baby away at any time

00:44:28without telling its mother you were going to do so?

00:44:31I mean, are you seriously suggesting that this was the sense of such an invitation?

00:44:35I'm not saying that.

00:44:37Oh, but you are.

00:44:38Look, I was walking Karen around,

00:44:41waiting for Olivia to come out of the supermarket when she got sick.

00:44:44Yes, you say you took the baby home,

00:44:46asked your foster brother to tell Mrs. Bascombe where she was,

00:44:49and then proceeded to give the baby a bath

00:44:50because she'd vomited on her clothes and hands.

00:44:52That's right.

00:44:53Why didn't you mention the fact that the baby had been sick

00:44:56to the woman police officer who came round to your house

00:44:58and found you with Karen?

00:44:59I did.

00:45:00Well, the officer has no recollection of your saying any such thing.

00:45:03Well, I did.

00:45:03Are you calling the officer a liar?

00:45:06Look, suddenly in come the police and accuse me of snatching Karen.

00:45:10How do you think I felt?

00:45:11I said a lot of things.

00:45:12I was confused.

00:45:14But I know I said why I was bathing Karen.

00:45:16Ask Michael.

00:45:16He'll tell you.

00:45:17Did you also tell the officer of the so-called open invitation

00:45:20to take Karen off from her mother whenever you felt like it?

00:45:23Yes.

00:45:24Well, once again, the officer has no record of it.

00:45:26Well, again, I did say it.

00:45:27I admit I was talking 19 to the dozen.

00:45:30I was terrified.

00:45:31I couldn't believe I was being arrested.

00:45:34It was like a nightmare.

00:45:35I put it to you, Miss Sellers,

00:45:36that your jealousy of Mrs. Bascom had grown to such an extent

00:45:39that you wanted to hurt her as much as possible.

00:45:41No.

00:45:42And that the best way for you to do that, in your view,

00:45:43was to abduct her child.

00:45:45I could never do that.

00:45:46Well, you admit criticising Mrs. Bascom's handling of the child,

00:45:49leaving her unattended outside a busy shopping centre.

00:45:52I've said those things I said I didn't mean.

00:45:55We'd had an argument.

00:45:56Yes, you've said the baby seemed to like you.

00:45:58Perhaps you inferred that, as a 17-year-old girl,

00:46:01with no further experience of looking after children,

00:46:04you were qualified to criticise Mrs. Bascom, the mother of two.

00:46:08Why don't you listen?

00:46:09I've said I didn't mean those things I said about her.

00:46:11I am listening, Miss Sellers,

00:46:13but the reasons you're giving now for your innocence

00:46:15were not given at the time of your arrest.

00:46:17I told the police I did.

00:46:18I must put it to you that your story of having an open invitation

00:46:21to take Karen Bascom off on your own is a lie.

00:46:24No.

00:46:24It's a fabrication specially made up by you at your arrest

00:46:28and before this trial here.

00:46:31Now, Mrs. Bascom has said she gave out no such open invitation of any kind,

00:46:35either explicit or implicit.

00:46:37You've heard her say that it has given her great pain

00:46:39to give evidence here against you.

00:46:41Now, are you calling her a liar, too?

00:46:43Did you think of the suffering you were going to cause her

00:46:46when you wheeled Karen away?

00:46:47I didn't think she...

00:46:48Did you think of her feelings

00:46:49when she suddenly discovered her baby had disappeared?

00:46:51Did you think of the agony she'd go through trying to get her back?

00:46:54I thought she'd know where she was.

00:46:56You mean that she'd assume that it was you who'd taken her?

00:46:59Yes.

00:47:00And all she had to do was to sit tight and wait

00:47:01and you'd bring her back in time?

00:47:04Yes.

00:47:05When did you intend taking Karen back, Miss Sellers?

00:47:08As soon as I'd finished bathing her, of course.

00:47:12And how long would that have been?

00:47:13Quarter, half an hour.

00:47:15Or an hour, or two, or more.

00:47:17I put it to you, Miss Sellers,

00:47:18that you never intended returning that baby.

00:47:20I put it to you that you decided it was yours

00:47:22and no one else was going to have a part of it.

00:47:24You wanted that baby for your own.

00:47:25Wasn't that what you wanted?

00:47:26No, it wasn't like that at all.

00:47:27I loved Karen.

00:47:28I wanted what was best for her.

00:47:30And what was best for her

00:47:31was that you should have her

00:47:32because you'd quarrelled with Mrs. Bascom

00:47:33and you hated her.

00:47:34No, no.

00:47:36I wouldn't do a thing like that.

00:47:38I was fond of Olivia.

00:47:39I wouldn't do that to her.

00:47:41I know what it's like to lose a baby.

00:47:44Yes, indeed, Miss Sellers, you do.

00:47:46And you took Karen to make up for that loss.

00:47:48The case of the Queen against Sellers

00:48:16will be resumed tomorrow

00:48:17in the Crown Court.

00:48:19The Queen against Sellers

00:48:19THE END

00:48:49Maureen Sellers is accused of kidnapping three-month-old Karen Bascom,

00:48:53taking her away in her pram as she lay asleep outside a shop

00:48:57where the baby's mother, Mrs Olivia Bascom, was shopping.

00:49:00Fullchester Crown Court has heard a psychiatrist say

00:49:03he'd come to the conclusion that Maureen, having miscarried a child of her own,

00:49:07was jealous of Mrs Bascom,

00:49:09a person who'd befriended her and helped her get over the tragedy of her unborn baby.

00:49:14Did it ever occur to you, Maureen, when you wheeled the pram away

00:49:18that you might be kidnapping the baby?

00:49:19No, of course not.

00:49:21Did you ever, then or before, have any thoughts of kidnapping it from its mother?

00:49:25No.

00:49:27If you wanted to kidnap a baby, where would you take it?

00:49:31I don't know.

00:49:33Well, would you take it on a train, say, out of the district?

00:49:36Or would you take it to your home, just round the corner?

00:49:39Well, I wouldn't take it home, certainly.

00:49:41Not if I was going to pretend it was mine.

00:49:43Why not?

00:49:44Well, everybody would know it wasn't, wouldn't they?

00:49:47Yes, I suppose they would.

00:49:48I'd take it.

00:49:50Yes?

00:49:51I'd take it away to a place in the country where it'd grow up happy and nobody'd know whose it was.

00:49:57No further questions, my lord.

00:49:59You will return to the dock, Miss Sellers.

00:50:01I call Mrs. Hilda Day.

00:50:06Hilda Day, please.

00:50:07What is your religion?

00:50:21Church of England.

00:50:22Take the testament in your right hand and read aloud the words on this card.

00:50:25I swear by Almighty God that the evidence I shall give shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.

00:50:30You are Mrs. Hilda Day of 10 Norton Road, Fulchester?

00:50:34Yes.

00:50:34What is your profession?

00:50:35I'm a probation officer.

00:50:36Do you know the defendant, Maureen Sellers?

00:50:39I do, yes.

00:50:40Would you explain how you come to know her?

00:50:42A few years ago, Maureen ran away from home, twice.

00:50:45Her foster parents sought the help of the courts on the second occasion, and Maureen was placed on probation.

00:50:50She came under my supervision.

00:50:52How long ago was that?

00:50:53Oh, she was 13, four years.

00:50:56And how long did the probation order last?

00:50:58Three years.

00:50:59So your supervision in this capacity ended, what, a year ago?

00:51:02Yes.

00:51:03Nevertheless, I continued to visit Maureen on an informal, friendly basis.

00:51:08You and she were friends?

00:51:09Yes.

00:51:10She asked when the probation order ended if I would continue to see her.

00:51:13And you did?

00:51:14As much as my other duties allowed, yes.

00:51:16I just used to call in.

00:51:18Do you know Mrs. Bascom?

00:51:20I do.

00:51:21How do you come to know her?

00:51:23During the second year of probation, Maureen joined a youth club run by Mr. Bascom.

00:51:28His wife used to help out there from time to time.

00:51:31I understood she took an interest in Maureen, helped her to settle in, overcome her shyness.

00:51:35As a person professionally concerned in Maureen's welfare, did you approve of that?

00:51:40Yes, at first.

00:51:42How do you mean, Mrs. Day?

00:51:44Maureen settled down at the youth club quite well.

00:51:46She certainly showed no signs of wanting to run away from home again, and for that I was pleased.

00:51:51And grateful to anyone who helped with her improvement.

00:51:55Then, last year, she became pregnant.

00:51:59Now, Mrs. Bascom may have acted with good intentions, but as we all know, the road to hell is paved with those.

00:52:05Mrs. Day, please give your evidence without that kind of embellishment.

00:52:09I beg your pardon, my lord.

00:52:11Did you change your mind about Mrs. Bascom's contribution to Maureen's improvement last year?

00:52:16Maureen became pregnant, but wasn't given the opportunity to marry the father.

00:52:21Indeed, she neither told me nor, I think, anyone else his identity.

00:52:25She then, while staying at the Bascom's, took an overdose of sleeping pills left lying around by Mrs. Bascom.

00:52:32Oh, my lord.

00:52:33Yes, I know, Mr. Logan.

00:52:35Mrs. Day, as a probation officer, you know full well the sort of procedure expected from a witness in court.

00:52:41I'm ordering you to refrain from that kind of suggestion.

00:52:43Continue.

00:52:46As a result of which, she miscarried.

00:52:49Yes.

00:52:49Did Maureen tell you of her subsequent dealings with Mrs. Bascom's newly born daughter, Karen?

00:52:54Yes, she did.

00:52:56As I said, I had no official duties towards her as the probation order had long since terminated.

00:53:01However, I made a point of calling in to see her whenever I could after she lost the baby.

00:53:05Apparently, she was given considerable responsibility for Karen by Mrs. Bascom.

00:53:11Mrs. Day, I would ask you to answer in a simple and direct way.

00:53:15Did you approve of the way Mrs. Bascom allowed Maureen to tend to her child?

00:53:20Most decidedly not.

00:53:22Why not?

00:53:23I saw nothing wrong in allowing her to help with the baby if this help were minor and ordinary.

00:53:30Uncomplicated.

00:53:30But Maureen told me some horrifying details.

00:53:35Horrifying?

00:53:36I used the word advisedly.

00:53:38Yes, to me, they were horrifying.

00:53:40What were these details?

00:53:42I gather that Mrs. Bascom spoke of increasing Maureen's involvement with her child.

00:53:49Well, really.

00:53:50It appeared she was setting herself up as a psychiatric authority.

00:53:55I've been in social work for 15 years.

00:53:58And in that time, I've seen many instances where people have assumed the role of a qualified social worker or psychiatrist

00:54:04when they had no justification whatsoever to do so.

00:54:08And in every case, harm has come to the subject.

00:54:11My lord, if Mrs. Day is assuming the role of psychiatrist, perhaps to counter the evidence given earlier by Dr. Watmore, all well and good.

00:54:19But I was given to understand that she is a probation officer and was appearing for the defence in a less technical role than that of a mind specialist.

00:54:26Mr. Harvesty, is your purpose to ask Mrs. Day to counter the psychiatric evidence already given to the court?

00:54:32No, not entirely, my lord, although I do feel that her words are both relevant and important,

00:54:37although her qualifications are somewhat different to those of the doctor.

00:54:41Well, can we come to the nub of your questions?

00:54:44My lord, you have said that Maureen informed you of her activities with the baby Karen?

00:54:51Yes.

00:54:51When was this? When did she tell you?

00:54:53Oh, last November, December, around that time, and earlier this year.

00:54:58During that time, that is before February of this year, did she tell you of any remark made by Mrs. Bascom concerning her confidence in Maureen's ability to look after Karen?

00:55:09Yes, she did.

00:55:10Would you tell the court what that was?

00:55:12She said in January sometime that Mrs. Bascom had complimented her on the way she got on with Karen

00:55:19and had told her that any time she felt like taking her out for a walk in the pram, she could.

00:55:24Any time she liked was her phrase.

00:55:26Just to recapitulate, then, she told you this before she was arrested on February the 10th?

00:55:32Yes, as I said, it was in January.

00:55:34Thank you. Would you stay there, please?

00:55:38You dislike Mrs. Bascom, don't you, Mrs. Day?

00:55:41I hardly know her.

00:55:42Well, you dislike what you consider to be her usurpation of your role.

00:55:46That is nonsense.

00:55:48Well, you said so in as many words.

00:55:50Look, every probation officer is overworked.

00:55:53Every probation officer has more than enough people to look after.

00:55:56I welcome anyone who can possibly support our work.

00:56:00My role, as you put it, was to supervise Maureen during a period of probation.

00:56:06Oh, Mrs. Bascom certainly did not usurp that.

00:56:09I have said that I was pleased she took an interest in the girl during the second year of probation.

00:56:14But when that ended and Maureen got into a mess, I began to seriously question Mrs. Bascom's attitude towards her.

00:56:22And at that time, I had no role in the matter at all.

00:56:26By her attitude, you mean her attempts to get Miss Sellers to forget her recent sorrows?

00:56:31I mean the way she performed an amateur welfare service on the girl.

00:56:35Yes, you are, of course, deeply concerned as to what becomes of Miss Sellers, aren't you?

00:56:39Of course I am.

00:56:40You wouldn't wish her to see her get into trouble again after having apparently made such a great improvement since she was placed on probation.

00:56:46She is a good girl and she has great potential.

00:56:50I didn't want that to be jeopardised by people employing amateur psychiatry.

00:56:54A professional psychiatrist has told the court he thoroughly approved of Mrs. Bascom's methods.

00:56:59Oh, I believe Mr. Bascom took her to see a psychiatrist friend of theirs a few times.

00:57:04I, on the other hand, have known her for four years.

00:57:08Mrs. Day, do you consider Mrs. Bascom has done any harm to the defendant?

00:57:13Thankfully, no. It appears not.

00:57:15Then why are you so upset?

00:57:17I disapprove in principle of unqualified meddlers.

00:57:21But you say Miss Sellers did not appear to have suffered at the hands of Mrs. Bascom's meddling, as you put it?

00:57:25Now, supposing she had, or let me phrase it like this,

00:57:28what harm might she have done by urging the defendant to become more and more involved in the care of her own child, Karen?

00:57:34I cannot speculate, but there are many ways harm can be done.

00:57:39Yes, you've said in your long experience of social work,

00:57:42you've witnessed several examples where people like Mrs. Bascom have done damage.

00:57:46Can you think of a case parallel to this one?

00:57:50Well, not exactly parallel, no.

00:57:52Well, similar.

00:57:53I have seen neurotic adolescent girls become more neurotic by the actions of young people under the impression they were doing good.

00:58:01Perhaps even, Mrs. Day, to the extent of arousing violent jealousy?

00:58:06I don't know what you mean.

00:58:07I think you do, Mrs. Day.

00:58:08You've come here to give evidence on behalf of the defendant.

00:58:12You like her.

00:58:13You feel responsible as her ex-probation officer for how she will fare now that she's left your supervision.

00:58:18Now, you hear that since she lost her own baby,

00:58:20someone, Mrs. Bascom, is letting her have more and more say in the care of her own newly born child.

00:58:25The phrase, increasing her involvement in the child, is used by Mrs. Bascom,

00:58:29and you shudder.

00:58:31Another amateur psychiatrist, you say to yourself.

00:58:33Someone who, by her meddling, could harm Miss Sellers, not help her.

00:58:37Now, as a matter of fact, Mrs. Day, you have underlined the point I have been making.

00:58:43You have implied that the defendant may well not have benefited from the well-meaning intentions of Mrs. Bascom.

00:58:47She might well have become jealous of the very person who sought to help her.

00:58:50And so she took away her baby, the very object of her jealousy.

00:58:54I repeat, Maureen told me long before she was arrested on this charge

00:58:58that Mrs. Bascom told her she could take the baby off for walks whenever she felt like it.

00:59:02Without checking with her first?

00:59:04I am merely repeating what she told me.

00:59:06What she told you, yes.

00:59:09I have no more questions, thank you.

00:59:28Mr. Brain, you are Maureen's foster brother.

00:59:34Yes.

00:59:34And you live at the same address, 64 Penrose Villas, yes?

00:59:37That's right.

00:59:38Who else lives there at present?

00:59:39Just my mother and father.

00:59:40My brother and sister are married and living away.

00:59:42Are you acquainted with Mrs. Bascom?

00:59:44Yes.

00:59:44You've met her?

00:59:45Yes.

00:59:46Did Maureen ever talk to you about her relationship with Mrs. Bascom?

00:59:50Yes, quite a bit.

00:59:52Coming to the events of last September and subsequently,

00:59:55did Maureen discuss these in much detail with you?

00:59:57You mean about her miscarriage and that?

01:00:00Yes, and her relations with the Bascoms and their newly born baby.

01:00:03Yes.

01:00:04Would you describe, in your own words, what Maureen told you,

01:00:07that is, how she got on with them?

01:00:09She got on very well.

01:00:10She said Mrs. Bascom used to let her look after the baby a lot.

01:00:14She said it was doing her good, what with all that had happened.

01:00:16Did she go into any details about the way she was looking after Karen?

01:00:19Yes, she said she took it for walks, bathed it, fed it, just about everything.

01:00:23She talked about babysitting?

01:00:24Yes.

01:00:25Did she say anything as to whether she looked after Karen alone,

01:00:28or did she say that Mrs. Bascom was always present?

01:00:31She said Mrs. Bascom had told her she could take Karen off any time she felt like.

01:00:35Take her off?

01:00:36For walks and that.

01:00:37Those were the words that Maureen used?

01:00:39Yes, she said the baby liked her,

01:00:41and that Mrs. Bascom was pleased she got on so well with it

01:00:43that she had an open invitation to look after it.

01:00:45An open invitation?

01:00:46Maureen's words again?

01:00:47Yes.

01:00:48She said she was given an open invitation to look after the baby.

01:00:52Yes.

01:00:53Well, that seems a good deal more sweeping

01:00:54than merely an invitation to take the child for a walk.

01:00:57What were Maureen's words to you exactly?

01:01:00Can you recall?

01:01:01Well, I suppose, take the baby for walks.

01:01:03No, suppose isn't enough.

01:01:04Can you recall her exact words?

01:01:06Yes, sir.

01:01:07Take the baby off for walks.

01:01:08Yes.

01:01:10Coming to February the 10th last,

01:01:12you were at home during the morning, were you not?

01:01:14Yes, I do shift work.

01:01:16Again, in your own words,

01:01:17would you describe what happened around 11 or 11.30 that morning?

01:01:22Well, I was just getting up.

01:01:23It was just before 11.

01:01:24I had to be at work at 2.

01:01:26My mother was out shopping and my father was at work.

01:01:29There was no one else in the house.

01:01:31Then Maureen came in.

01:01:32I heard the key turn in the lock and I went down.

01:01:35She had the baby with her, Karen.

01:01:37She said she'd been walking it around in the pram and it got sick.

01:01:39Did you notice any signs of the baby having been sick?

01:01:42Yeah, it was all over her.

01:01:43Go on, please.

01:01:45Well, she started to clean the baby up.

01:01:46Then she said it was no good.

01:01:47She'd have to bath it.

01:01:49She went into the bathroom and she started to run the water.

01:01:52Oh, then she said, could I do her a favour?

01:01:54Could I go to the supermarket and find Mrs. Bascom,

01:01:57tell her what had happened and that Karen was with her at our house?

01:01:59And you went?

01:02:00Yes, but I couldn't find her.

01:02:02I went into the place and looked all around, but she wasn't there.

01:02:04What did you do then?

01:02:06Well, I went back home and told Maureen I couldn't find Mrs. Bascom.

01:02:08Did she say anything?

01:02:10She said something about,

01:02:11oh, never mind, I'll take Karen back in five minutes when I'm finished.

01:02:14When she'd finished bathing her?

01:02:16Yes.

01:02:16What happened then?

01:02:17Well, the police came, this policewoman.

01:02:19And?

01:02:20Well, she started to say that Maureen had pinched the baby

01:02:23and that Mrs. Bascom had reported her to the police.

01:02:25Well, it was fantastic.

01:02:27Did you say anything at this time?

01:02:28Of course I did.

01:02:29What did you say?

01:02:30I told the policewoman that Maureen had permission to take the baby.

01:02:33You are sure that you said exactly that?

01:02:36Positive.

01:02:37Well, the officer has stated that your words were,

01:02:40what are you trying to make out?

01:02:41Are you saying she took the kid without permission?

01:02:44I said she had permission.

01:02:46Now, Mr. Brain, let us go straight to the nub of your evidence.

01:02:53You've told the court that when the defendant came home with Mrs. Bascom's baby,

01:02:57she told you to go and find the mother to let her know where the child was.

01:03:00That's right.

01:03:01And you did so?

01:03:02Yes.

01:03:02You went up the road to the supermarket.

01:03:04This is your local supermarket, I suppose?

01:03:05Well, it's near us, yes.

01:03:06You and your neighbours use it a lot?

01:03:08Now and then, why?

01:03:09Well, in your search for Mrs. Bascom, did you go into the shop?

01:03:13Of course I did.

01:03:14And you searched thoroughly?

01:03:15Yes.

01:03:16Asking people you knew that you met if they'd seen her?

01:03:18Well, mostly I went up and down the aisles looking for her.

01:03:20But surely your local supermarket, you must have asked someone,

01:03:23someone known both to you and Mrs. Bascom,

01:03:25perhaps one of the assistants, if they'd seen her?

01:03:28Well, yes.

01:03:28Yes.

01:03:30Yes.

01:03:31Well then, Mr. Brain, where are they now?

01:03:34Why is there not just one person willing to corroborate your story?

01:03:37Hmm?

01:03:38Or is there?

01:03:39Perhaps I've been misinformed.

01:03:41The most significant part of your evidence on behalf of the defendant,

01:03:44your foster sister,

01:03:45is that she made an immediate and determined effort to trace Karen's mother,

01:03:49to let her know where Karen was.

01:03:51But there is, unhappily, no one, not one person,

01:03:54who is prepared to say that they saw you

01:03:55during the period that you say you searched thoroughly but vainly

01:03:59for Mrs. Bascom in the supermarket.

01:04:01Well, I can't remember who I talked to, only I know I did.

01:04:03Well, this case has received a certain amount of publicity, Mr. Brain,

01:04:05yet no one has come forward to say,

01:04:07yes, they were approached by you that morning.

01:04:09I'm telling the truth.

01:04:10The next question I have to ask is perhaps even more significant, Mr. Brain.

01:04:14You've said you knew Mrs. Bascom.

01:04:16Yes.

01:04:17You must know, therefore, where she lives.

01:04:19Well, I've never been there.

01:04:20Well, that wasn't my question, Mr. Brain.

01:04:22Now, your foster sister spent a good deal of her time there last year.

01:04:25Are you now telling us that you don't know where Mrs. Bascom lives?

01:04:28I know.

01:04:29Well, having failed to find Mrs. Bascom in the supermarket,

01:04:32did it not occur to you to try her home?

01:04:34Look, what happened?

01:04:35Well, you know the panic and all that.

01:04:37Afterwards, well, it makes me look pretty stupid.

01:04:39Not going to her home, not trying harder.

01:04:41But at the time, it didn't seem any real sort of rush.

01:04:44I mean, I knew Maureen had permission to take the baby.

01:04:46So when I couldn't find Mrs. Bascom, I just thought,

01:04:48oh, well, so what?

01:04:50Do you know Maureen's got the kid?

01:04:52That's just how it was.

01:04:53It didn't seem to me to be all that urgent.

01:04:55Do you like your foster sister?

01:04:57Yes.

01:04:58Have you always liked her?

01:04:59Uh, yes.

01:05:01You aren't sure?

01:05:02I've always liked her.

01:05:03Even when you were children, did you?

01:05:06Yes.

01:05:08Well, all kids fight, they always do.

01:05:10Yes, Maureen ran away from your home twice.

01:05:13Well, there was a time, yes, she was a bit upset.

01:05:15But that's all over now.

01:05:17So it appears, from your spirited defence of her.

01:05:20However, I must put it to you, Mr. Brain,

01:05:22that you are here in court today to make up for your past cruelty to her.

01:05:26Helping her is one thing.

01:05:27Committing perjury is another.

01:05:28Now, Mr. Brain, no one is accusing you of perjury.

01:05:30But your story of having made a thorough search for Mrs. Bascom

01:05:33after Miss Sellers took her baby

01:05:35is not corroborated by anyone, anybody at all.

01:05:39And it's inconceivable that in a crowded local supermarket

01:05:41that you asked no one, spoke to no one

01:05:44in your quest for the baby's mother.

01:05:46Your eagerness to come to the defence of your foster sister

01:05:48is admirable if misplaced.

01:05:51Based as it is, not on the corroborated truth,

01:05:54but on a sense of guilt for the way you treated her in the past

01:05:57when you were children.

01:05:59I have no further questions, thank you.

01:06:02You may stand down, Mr. Brain.

01:06:03And that completes the case for the defence, my lord.

01:06:09Mr. Logan.

01:06:13Members of the jury,

01:06:14the case for the prosecution against the defendant, Maureen Sellers,

01:06:17can be simply stated.

01:06:19On February the 10th last,

01:06:21she took a three-month-old baby from its mother

01:06:23without the mother's knowledge or consent.

01:06:26However, Miss Sellers maintains

01:06:28that she did not kidnap baby Karen.

01:06:30She claims that she was merely taking up

01:06:32an open invitation

01:06:34from Mrs. Bascom to take the child off

01:06:36whenever she felt like it.

01:06:38But members of the jury,

01:06:40even if we assume that the mother,

01:06:42Mrs. Bascom,

01:06:43actually had issued such an invitation,

01:06:45it is surely preposterous for the defendant

01:06:47to claim that she saw nothing wrong

01:06:49in taking the baby off

01:06:50without first informing the mother.

01:06:53Now, Mrs. Bascom strongly denies

01:06:55ever giving an open invitation of any kind,

01:06:57and even implying one to the defendant.

01:07:00She never allowed her to take the baby off for a walk

01:07:03whenever she felt like it.

01:07:04Now, what mother would?

01:07:07And I may add,

01:07:08I think Mrs. Bascom has amply demonstrated

01:07:10her fondness for Maureen Sellers

01:07:12and her willingness to help her recover

01:07:14from a most distressing period in her life.

01:07:17Yet, Miss Sellers repaid her kindness

01:07:19with malice and cruelty.

01:07:21She was jealous of Mrs. Bascom,

01:07:23jealous of her happiness, security, family,

01:07:27but jealous, above all, of Karen Bascom,

01:07:30whom she took away and referred to as Amanda,

01:07:33the name she was going to give

01:07:34to the baby she had lost.

01:07:36She took that baby in order to make it her own.

01:07:40And I must ask you to find her guilty as charged.

01:07:45Mr. Harvesty.

01:07:47My Lord.

01:07:49Members of the jury,

01:07:49I would not deny or underestimate

01:07:53the suffering and the anguish

01:07:56which Mrs. Bascom must have felt

01:07:58when she found her baby missing on February the 10th,

01:08:01but I ask you to consider also

01:08:03all the suffering and anxiety

01:08:05which the defendant, Maureen Sellers,

01:08:08has been put through

01:08:08ever since she was found after one hour

01:08:12with the baby in her own home.

01:08:15I must ask you not to prolong these months of suffering,

01:08:18for there is no reason to do so.

01:08:22Miss Sellers has testified,

01:08:23and you have heard the other witnesses confirm,

01:08:25that she believed that she had been given

01:08:27an open invitation

01:08:29to take the baby Karen for walks.

01:08:32Had not Mrs. Bascom led her to believe

01:08:34that her care for and interest in the child

01:08:37were welcome at any time?

01:08:39Miss Sellers certainly believed

01:08:41that she had that permission.

01:08:42And that should be enough,

01:08:44members of the jury,

01:08:45for you to find her not guilty

01:08:47of this appalling and misconceived charge.

01:08:51You have heard how Miss Sellers,

01:08:53after a difficult early life

01:08:55and early pregnancy and miscarriage,

01:08:58was on her way back to a happy and fulfilled life.

01:09:03She acknowledges that it was Mrs. Bascom's kindness to her

01:09:06which contributed to her improvement.

01:09:09Can you really believe that from some motive of jealousy

01:09:13she would repay that kindness by kidnapping?

01:09:17Kidnapping Karen Bascom?

01:09:19If she'd wanted to kidnap a child,

01:09:22surely she would not have chosen one

01:09:24whose parents would immediately suspect her.

01:09:27And if she had consciously decided to kidnap Karen Bascom,

01:09:31surely she would not have been so stupid enough

01:09:33to take it to her own home

01:09:34where she would be certain of being found.

01:09:36No, on any grounds of logic,

01:09:40this charge which has brought her here

01:09:41will just not stick.

01:09:42And I ask you to find her not guilty

01:09:44and end her nightmare here.

01:09:51Members of the jury,

01:09:53I'm here to help you with the law.

01:09:56Now, you must not be swayed by counsel

01:09:58for the defence's eloquent pleas for sympathy,

01:10:01nor by Mrs. Bascom's evident reluctance

01:10:04this prosecution should be brought.

01:10:06You have to decide whether or not

01:10:08Miss Sellers is guilty of kidnapping.

01:10:12Now, a person who takes a child away

01:10:15without the consent of the child's parent or guardian

01:10:19is guilty of kidnapping

01:10:21unless that person honestly believed

01:10:24that he or she was acting with consent.

01:10:27Now, consent need not always be given verbally.

01:10:31It can be implied from conduct without words.

01:10:35In this case, therefore,

01:10:37before you could convict,

01:10:39you would have to be satisfied

01:10:40beyond all reasonable doubt,

01:10:42firstly, that Mrs. Bascom

01:10:44did not consent to the child being taken away,

01:10:48and secondly,

01:10:49that the defendant understood

01:10:50that there was no such consent.

01:10:54Now, Mrs. Bascom has said

01:10:55that she gave no consent,

01:10:58and Miss Sellers has described

01:10:59an open invitation.

01:11:02Now, do you believe Miss Sellers

01:11:04or Mrs. Bascom?

01:11:06If you believe Miss Sellers,

01:11:09do you believe her

01:11:10when she says she honestly thought

01:11:11that that meant that she need not inform

01:11:14Mrs. Bascom

01:11:15when she took the child away?

01:11:19Now, these questions

01:11:20are for you alone to decide.

01:11:22You will now retire

01:11:23and consider your verdict.

01:11:25All stand.

01:11:35All stand.

01:11:42The defendant will remain standing.

01:11:48Members of the jury,

01:11:50will your foreman please stand?

01:11:51Just answer this question,

01:11:53yes or no.

01:11:54Have you reached a verdict

01:11:55upon which you are all agreed?

01:11:57Yes.

01:11:57Do you find the defendant,

01:11:59Maureen Sellers,

01:11:59guilty or not guilty?

01:12:01Not guilty.

01:12:04Maureen Sellers,

01:12:05you have been found

01:12:06not guilty

01:12:07of the charge of kidnapping.

01:12:09You are free to go.

01:12:11Court for crimes.

01:12:12Next week,

01:12:27a chance for you

01:12:27to join another jury

01:12:28in assessing the facts

01:12:29when our cameras return

01:12:30to watch a leading case

01:12:31in the Crown Court.

01:12:32The court,

01:12:35you have been made

01:12:36in a while.

01:12:37The無論

01:12:39and the criminal

01:12:41to justify the fact

01:12:42a leading case

01:12:45in the actual jury

01:12:47will be found

01:12:48in the house.

01:12:48But not guilty

01:12:50of all the charges

01:12:50of the law.

01:12:50The action

01:12:51of the law

01:12:52will be found

01:12:52that we are

01:12:53on the general

01:12:53of the law.

01:12:54The law

01:12:55will be found

01:12:56the law

01:12:57to accept

01:12:57the law

01:12:58and the law

01:13:00will be found

01:13:00and the law

01:13:01may be found

01:13:01that we are

Crown Court - The Open Invitation (1973)

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