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00:00Happy New Year and welcome to the Traitors Uncloaked,
00:03the official visualized companion podcast hosted by me, Ed Gamble.
00:07We're back to accompany another irresistible series of the best show on TV.
00:11Joining me each episode to unpick all the treachery from the castle
00:14will be familiar former players, celebrity superfans,
00:17and of course, the latest murdered and banished players.
00:21Now, you know what's coming. Spoiler alert!
00:23If you haven't watched the first episode of Series 4,
00:26then head to BBC iPlayer and do that now.
00:28Coming up, we discuss that red-cloaked twist
00:32and who the secret traitor might be.
00:34We share our first impressions of the other traitors
00:36and we unpick the lies and deceit already swirling around the castle.
00:40To do all of this and more, I'm joined by celebrity faithful Lucy Beaumont,
00:44Series 3 traitor Mina, Series 2 faithful Molly,
00:47and traitor superfan Jack Remington!
00:54Welcome, everyone. So exciting.
00:56Thank you for joining me on the first episode of Uncloaked for Series 4.
01:00We are obviously going to be discussing everything that happened in this episode,
01:04but Lucy, first, I want to chat to you,
01:06because you were amazing in the celebrity series.
01:08How did you find watching the first episode of the new civilian series
01:11now that you're not in the castle?
01:13At first, I was like, oh, God, here we go again.
01:17You know, like, he's like, there's a set thing, like, oh.
01:19And then, I was absolutely hooked.
01:23By the end, I was like, they have, they've done it again.
01:27But you'll want to talk about the twist in a minute, I'm sure.
01:31We'll probably bring it up, I'd imagine.
01:34But that just is taking it to a new level.
01:36Totally, yeah. Total new level.
01:38This time round, there is a secret traitor.
01:40Not even the traitors know who they are,
01:42and we do not know who they are as we are watching.
01:46So everyone watching now is a faithful,
01:49because we need to work out who this traitor is.
01:51Yes.
01:52So you've got a theory out here, Lucy.
01:54When we watched it together, I just had to ask the group,
01:57did they say that the secret traitor was one of that cast?
02:00Because it could be Claire Balding.
02:02So you think it's not only a secret traitor,
02:08it's someone secret within the castle.
02:09You think Claire Balding is hiding something,
02:11maybe in the suit of armour, and she's going to pop out.
02:13Well, I did say, I said publicly online
02:16that I think Claire Balding will come back.
02:18Yeah.
02:19And then, you can imagine how I felt
02:21when they said there's a secret traitor.
02:23Yeah.
02:24And in the cloak, when it was walking,
02:26it did look like Claire Balding's walk.
02:27And I thought, that's why you made me move up,
02:31because she's going to sit here.
02:33So you thought, we are going to reveal
02:36the identity of the secret traitor
02:37in this episode of Uncloaked,
02:39and it's going to be Claire Balding.
02:39Yeah, I'm just so glad they've done this,
02:42because, you know, you won't know this,
02:44but it's so infuriating when people are like,
02:47how did you not know?
02:48Yeah.
02:49I feel you with that one.
02:50It's time for the public to play this game
02:51and realise how hard it is.
02:54What was your instant thought
02:55when you saw the twist, Mina?
02:56Can I be honest?
02:57Yeah.
02:58I was fuming.
02:59Because that screams Mina energy down to a tee.
03:03I want to be in the red cloak.
03:04But then we were saying as well
03:05that they're going to be so anxious
03:07because even for them,
03:09it's not a comfortable, safe situation.
03:11They've not got the support
03:12of at least two other traitors
03:14when they get to the round table.
03:15They're by themselves.
03:16Yeah.
03:16So everybody's going to be feeling anxious now.
03:19You know, before it was like,
03:19the traitors have got the upper hand.
03:21Yeah.
03:21Traitors have now got to guess about the secret one,
03:24but then the secret one's going to be anxious
03:26because they're out there on their own.
03:27And obviously all the faithfuls are anxious anyway.
03:29So it's just good telling.
03:31Would you have been angry as a traitor
03:33if you found out there's a secret traitor?
03:35You get there, you're like,
03:37as a traitor, you think,
03:38I want to be picked, I want to be picked.
03:39Then you get picked.
03:40And then you find out
03:41someone else is running the show.
03:43Yeah.
03:43And you're limited to who you can murder
03:45because the secret traitor ultimately
03:47gives you the options.
03:48All the power's gone.
03:49All the power's gone in the turret.
03:51Hugo's not a happy boy.
03:53He is not happy.
03:55It's funny though,
03:55because they get everything they wanted.
03:56Like they've obviously,
03:58they've made it to the show,
03:59which is amazing.
04:00Yeah.
04:00They've been able to be a traitor,
04:01which they want to do.
04:02And now it's like snatched away from them.
04:04That power's gone.
04:05And I love it.
04:07I'm happy about the Hugo situation
04:09because when he said before
04:10that he was a psychopathic teddy bear,
04:11I was like,
04:12this is what you want to happen
04:13to a psychopathic teddy bear.
04:15Take away all the toys
04:16and they go mental.
04:17Yeah.
04:18Yeah.
04:18I mean,
04:18he had it all planned, didn't he?
04:20I've got a hug in my name,
04:21but if you get too close,
04:21I'll stab you in the back.
04:23And then he became a traitor.
04:24You must have been so happy about it.
04:25And then suddenly the rugs pulled.
04:27Yeah.
04:27Do we have any speculative theories so far
04:29as to who the secret traitor might be?
04:31We've only had one episode,
04:32but has anyone spotted anything?
04:34We thought Amanda would be great.
04:35Yeah.
04:36And we also all warmed to Judy.
04:39I love my mum,
04:40but I would also happily have Judy as my mum.
04:42Yeah.
04:43Love you, mum.
04:44So I feel like she'd be a really good person
04:46in kind of like a motherly instinctive way.
04:49And then if she's pulling all the strings
04:50behind the scenes,
04:51although they are slightly onto her already.
04:53Yeah, this is it.
04:54Did we spot Judy's head turn at the round table?
04:56Not another head turn.
04:57Oh, no.
04:58There was a little bit of a Linda moment.
04:59Really?
05:00Yeah, to the word traitors.
05:02Yeah.
05:02Oh.
05:03So if Judy is the secret traitor,
05:05she's not done a great job
05:06of keeping it secret so far.
05:07I really hope the secret traitor gets far
05:09because I just think it's fun.
05:11Yeah.
05:11Like it is fun
05:12and it's like added such another layer to the game.
05:14Imagine if like Judy's the first to go
05:16and that's it.
05:17I think Jessie could be the secret traitor.
05:19Yeah.
05:19I don't know why.
05:20I think when she was speaking on the train,
05:23she just really like,
05:24I don't know,
05:24I connected with her
05:25and I thought she could be a good traitor
05:26and she said she wanted to be a traitor.
05:28Yeah.
05:29They all seem to this year.
05:30Yeah.
05:30I feel like everyone just wants to be conniving.
05:32It's great.
05:33But that makes it so hard to work out
05:34who the secret traitor is, right?
05:36Because there's so many discussions
05:37in the gold chats
05:38where everyone says they want to be a traitor.
05:40You're like, well, who could it be?
05:41Amanda, I thought,
05:42potentially a good secret traitor.
05:44I think a terrible secret detective
05:45because I'm watching Amanda
05:47and I'm thinking,
05:48I'd know you were a copper
05:49as soon as I meet you.
05:50Yeah.
05:50Yeah, she's like central casting,
05:52like lead in the bill.
05:54Yeah.
05:56I'm surprised they've not done
05:57any sort of shots of her,
05:58just her feet walking across the gravel.
06:00Maybe that's the walk
06:01she was getting confused with.
06:02Yeah, maybe.
06:03That's who you think Claire is.
06:04Does Claire boarding walk like a bulletproof?
06:06They have obviously like,
06:10a couple of people mentioned
06:12Jade looked nervous
06:13and then obviously they showed Jade,
06:16but you don't know whether they're just,
06:18it's a red herring.
06:20But it would make sense
06:22that you're seeing the secret traitor
06:25a lot within this episode.
06:27And she did look nervous
06:29and being there,
06:32you know,
06:32you don't look nervous
06:33because it's like a relief, really.
06:36See, I disagree.
06:37I feel like I looked nervous.
06:39Oh, did you?
06:39I was nervous.
06:40I was petrified.
06:41Oh, really?
06:42Yeah.
06:42In case someone was like,
06:44thought you was...
06:44I think I was just out of my depth
06:46a little bit, to be honest.
06:47Yeah.
06:47And I think, you know,
06:48you've signed yourself up for something
06:49to the unknown completely, really.
06:51Like, it's...
06:52I was probably just nervous in general.
06:55You're around loads of new people.
06:57So I don't know if it's fair to say
06:59like, that nervousness
07:00is just because she's guilty.
07:03Because I was nervous as hell.
07:04Like, I...
07:05But people obviously didn't pick up on that
07:07because obviously,
07:08even though you were nervous,
07:09people can still tell that's authentic
07:11and it's not for that reason.
07:13And I suppose it could be like that for Jade.
07:15I think maybe people just need to get to know her
07:17a little bit more.
07:17Maybe the people that don't know her so well
07:19are the ones kind of picking up on that energy.
07:21Yeah.
07:21Whereas if they've had a few chats with her,
07:23they might know she's a bit of a nervous person anyway.
07:25Or we could be wrong and it's her.
07:27We could.
07:28You know?
07:28Has anyone made any comments so far
07:30that you think,
07:30oh, they're a bit suspicious?
07:32They're a little bit...
07:32You're a bit on edge with them?
07:33I think James needs to be real careful.
07:35He is throwing names out left, right and centre.
07:38That point in he was doing.
07:39Yeah.
07:39That was wild.
07:40It just...
07:41You need to be under the radar.
07:43Like, you do.
07:44And as much as you can get excited,
07:46especially when you feel something
07:47and like, you're sure it's right,
07:48just be careful with what she's saying, I think.
07:52I worry about Fiona.
07:53Yeah.
07:54Because of the mission.
07:55I think at that early on in the game,
07:58everyone's just holding on
07:59to any little thing that happens.
08:00Yeah.
08:01And that's like the only thing
08:02that's really happened.
08:03And I just think it was an accident.
08:05Or is she the secret traitor?
08:06What if she's putting all this on?
08:08What if she's not...
08:09What if she's not mixing anything up at all?
08:13What if it's like Willy Wonka
08:14when he comes out of the factory
08:15and he's on a walking stick
08:16and then he does a tumble?
08:19Exactly.
08:20Fiona's going to start doing flips.
08:22Yeah.
08:22She's going to do flips in a red cloak.
08:25Now, we know who isn't the secret traitor
08:27because of the murder shortlist.
08:29Yes.
08:29We've got James, Nettie and Maz.
08:31Do you think there's anyone else, Jack,
08:33that we can rule out of being the secret traitor?
08:35Who's 100% faithful, essentially?
08:37Oh, it's funny because I feel like I trust Judy,
08:42but I literally want her to be the secret traitor.
08:44So my want and my actually thinking
08:47it may be a different thing.
08:48I want her to be,
08:48but I actually don't think she will be.
08:49I think she's faithful
08:51and unfortunately is just sadly
08:53on the chopping block at the moment.
08:54Now, we don't know who the secret traitor is,
08:57but neither do the traitors themselves.
08:59They were very shocked when Claudia told them.
09:01Let's remind ourselves of that.
09:02I just had to pop in
09:03because I have a small confession.
09:07Oh, no.
09:10You are not the only traitors in this castle.
09:15At the round table,
09:16I picked one other traitor,
09:19the secret traitor.
09:21Oh, my God.
09:23You still have power,
09:25but not quite as much.
09:30Hugo was gutted, wasn't he?
09:32I think they all were a bit fuming,
09:34to be honest.
09:35I don't blame them.
09:36We also said it makes it even worse
09:38for the faithfuls
09:39because if you as a faithful
09:41end up directing some attention
09:44at one of the traitors,
09:45not actually knowing
09:45if they're a traitor or not,
09:47you're immediately going to look like
09:48the secret traitor to the traitors
09:51because obviously the secret traitor
09:52knows who the traitors are.
09:53So if you just happen to stumble
09:54as a faithful onto the right person
09:56and say in one of the traitors,
09:58you even more than normal,
10:00maybe put more of a target on your back
10:01because the traitors
10:02are going to want to get rid of you.
10:03So do you think the secret traitor
10:06will be looking to knock out fellow traitors
10:10at this point in the game?
10:11Yeah, I think they're already showing that.
10:13You know, when they found out
10:15who the shortlist was,
10:16they all looked a bit...
10:19Pater, they were like,
10:21why have they picked them?
10:22Like, we are...
10:23As if there's like,
10:24there's almost an agreement
10:25that these weren't people
10:27you needed to pick
10:28and either that's just a fluke
10:30or the secret traitors
10:31laying the stall out early
10:32of I'm not on your side
10:34and I'm not going to go with people
10:35I think you want to.
10:37As much as I think
10:38the secret traitor is against them,
10:40I don't necessarily think
10:41they're going to be trying
10:42to get rid of them just yet
10:43because there's no need.
10:44They're going to just recruit them.
10:45Do you know what I thought
10:46was interesting though
10:47to Lucy's point,
10:48how come all three of them
10:50were annoyed at the shortlist?
10:52So surely there's something
10:54that the traitors
10:55have like cottoned on to
10:57or, you know,
10:58they would have picked
10:59three different names.
11:00So I think,
11:01a part of me thinks
11:01the secret traitor
11:02has done that
11:03to maybe like
11:05make their lives a bit harder.
11:07The actual traitors
11:08because all three of them
11:09were like,
11:09why have they picked these people?
11:11Well, they had a discussion.
11:12They came to a sort of vague idea
11:13of who they might want
11:14to murder themselves.
11:16And then obviously
11:17it was completely different.
11:18I don't think there was any
11:19malice from the secret traitor
11:21picking those particular names.
11:23I just think they have
11:23very different ideas
11:24at this point.
11:25Because there's so many people,
11:26aren't they?
11:26True.
11:27So then there's maybe
11:28a chance that at some point
11:30the traitors start to work out
11:32who the secret traitor is.
11:34Is that what you mean?
11:35That's such a clever point
11:37because they'll throw the heat
11:39onto them and they'll be like,
11:40whoa, that's weird.
11:41But then can only mention it
11:43at the round table
11:43because they can't murder
11:44them at night.
11:46Such a clever game.
11:47It's so clever now
11:48this is added in to it.
11:49Who thought of this?
11:49It's good this show, isn't it?
11:51Yeah, it's a good show.
11:52I can't live any more
11:53of my life in this headspace
11:54though.
11:55It's like,
11:56oh God,
11:57I've got other things
11:59to be doing.
11:59I can't be,
12:01I can't believe I've now
12:02got to work out
12:02who a secret traitor
12:04is I've had months
12:06and months of this.
12:07I'm sorry we made you
12:08come on this, Lucy.
12:08Now I'm,
12:09can you just tell,
12:10who is it?
12:11I don't know,
12:12I've got no idea.
12:13Isn't it frustrating?
12:14Yeah, it is.
12:15Mina,
12:15if this had happened
12:16on your series,
12:17how would it have altered
12:18your gameplay as a traitor?
12:21I feel like
12:22you just go into
12:23panic mode
12:23because like you guys said,
12:25as a traitor,
12:26that's all you want
12:27to get picked.
12:27You get picked
12:28on with Armani
12:29and Linda,
12:30fantastic.
12:31And then Claudia
12:31tells you actually
12:32there's somebody else
12:34pulling the strings.
12:36I just think
12:36you'd have to try
12:37and keep everyone
12:39on side
12:39until you can work
12:40out who it is.
12:41Yeah.
12:42It's the only thing
12:42that you can do.
12:44But then you don't
12:44know who it is.
12:45So then what if you
12:46try to spread rumours
12:47about them
12:48and they're like,
12:48okay,
12:49I think you know
12:50what you're doing.
12:51Your days are numbered.
12:52I don't know.
12:53It's so hard.
12:54I just feel like
12:55you'd be so annoyed
12:56as a traitor.
12:57You think,
12:58I think Hugo
12:59actually said it,
13:00you want all the control
13:01as the traitor.
13:02Yeah.
13:03And actually,
13:04with their show,
13:05they haven't got
13:06all the control
13:07because there's
13:07this massive thing
13:08that they don't know about.
13:09We should talk
13:10about the new cohort
13:11of non-secret traitors.
13:13The traitors
13:13that we know about.
13:14How do we think
13:15Hugo's going to be
13:16as a traitor?
13:17Mina,
13:17what do you reckon?
13:18I think the other two
13:19are going to get rid of him.
13:22Yeah.
13:22That's what I think.
13:24I quite like him
13:24to be honest,
13:25but I feel like
13:26Rachel and Stephen
13:27are synced up
13:28on how they want
13:29to play this game
13:30and I think they'll work
13:31as a team,
13:32but I think
13:32Hugo's got the potential
13:34to potentially
13:35rub them up
13:35the wrong way.
13:36Therefore,
13:37they'll be like,
13:38you're not helping
13:39our plans
13:40to win as traitors.
13:42They already have said,
13:43haven't they,
13:43that they think
13:44if anyone's in a sneak out,
13:45it's Hugo
13:46out of the three of them.
13:47And Rachel even said
13:48she don't trust him
13:49and I think
13:51if you don't trust
13:52each other,
13:54yeah,
13:55it's not going to work.
13:57What do we think
13:58of Rachel
13:59as a traitor so far?
14:00Great.
14:01Good reaction faces
14:02to Storm.
14:02Yeah,
14:03I'm enjoying watching her.
14:04I think she's
14:05going to go
14:06very,
14:07very far.
14:07I think she's
14:08a bit like you.
14:09She's a shard
14:10from the stack.
14:11Yeah.
14:12She seems in control,
14:13but in a very calm,
14:14measured way.
14:16And Hugo's,
14:17I think,
14:18relishing playing the part.
14:19Yes.
14:20Like calling Claudia
14:21the Queen of Darkness
14:22and all of this sort of stuff.
14:23He's just,
14:23he's ready for panto.
14:25Yeah.
14:26Yeah.
14:27He'd make a great dame.
14:28Yeah, he would.
14:29He's being very open
14:31about his job,
14:32being a barrister.
14:33And is that the sort of job
14:34that you would have thought
14:34maybe try and keep that secret?
14:36Definitely.
14:37I also think
14:37that he's going to
14:38really struggle
14:39not having all the power.
14:40Yeah.
14:41I think that he's going to,
14:41I think he's going to
14:42really, really find that hard
14:43because he went in there
14:45with that mindset
14:45and now it's flipped.
14:47I think it's flipped
14:48his whole game
14:48and like,
14:49I think he's going to
14:50really struggle
14:51because obviously
14:52once you're a traitor,
14:54like the whole thing is
14:55people not knowing
14:55who you are.
14:56So the fact that there's
14:57someone in that group
14:58that knows
14:59is scary.
15:01Yeah.
15:01He strikes me as someone
15:02who has quite a lot of
15:03control and power
15:05in his life anyway.
15:06Yeah.
15:06It's scary that,
15:07isn't it?
15:07So that's what he's used to.
15:08Yeah.
15:09Yeah.
15:09So to suddenly not have it,
15:10I think is going to
15:11mess him up a little bit.
15:12Yeah.
15:13And finally,
15:13Stephen,
15:14we should talk about Stephen.
15:14Very well dressed.
15:15Best dressed man
15:16on the show.
15:17Totally.
15:17Do we think that's going
15:18to help him as a traitor?
15:19Yes.
15:19Yes.
15:20People trust fashionable people.
15:22Yes.
15:23Don't they?
15:23Yeah, look at Jonathan Ross.
15:25He stayed for ages.
15:26He wasn't fashionable.
15:27Do you not think
15:28it was his looks
15:28that kept him in?
15:29I think these lot were like,
15:30do you know what?
15:31Let's just see what
15:32he's going to wear tomorrow.
15:32Wear tomorrow.
15:33Yeah.
15:33So we're not saying
15:34he's as fashionable as Stephen,
15:36but he was quirky.
15:37I think let's see
15:38what Jonathan's wearing tomorrow
15:39is different to fashionable.
15:41Okay.
15:42I agree.
15:43There was one thing
15:43he was wearing
15:44I thought it was alive.
15:48He sat next to me
15:49and I went,
15:50skunk in it,
15:52and he said,
15:52no, it's attached
15:53to my jacket.
15:56But yeah,
15:57Stephen seems very affable as well.
15:58I think people
15:59will naturally trust him.
16:00Yeah.
16:01Yeah.
16:01He seems quite like warm.
16:02Very friendly,
16:04charming.
16:04I think he's going to
16:05probably go the hardest
16:06out of the three.
16:06To describe him?
16:07Wholesome.
16:08Yep.
16:08He is wholesome.
16:09Yep.
16:10I think,
16:10like you said,
16:11everyone's going to trust him
16:12and therefore the faithful
16:14will doubt that he is a traitor.
16:16But I think Rachel trusts him
16:18and I think he's going to have
16:19Rachel's back.
16:20So they'll work well together.
16:21Yeah.
16:22Lucy,
16:22now,
16:23obviously you and the other faithful
16:24in your series
16:25struggled to catch traitors
16:27for quite a long time.
16:28Yeah.
16:28What do you think
16:29the chances are
16:30in this series
16:31of the traitors
16:31sneaking under the radar
16:32like Alan and Kat did?
16:34I don't think it's going to happen.
16:36I don't think it's going to happen
16:37with this.
16:37And I think,
16:38adding the secret traitor,
16:40I think there's going to be
16:42a bigger turnover.
16:43I think they're going to get there.
16:45Molly,
16:45if you were in there
16:46as a faithful,
16:48is there anyone
16:48that you're suspicious of
16:49at this point?
16:50You're asking the wrong person
16:51really,
16:52to be honest.
16:53Whoever she says,
16:53it's the opposite.
16:54Literally,
16:55don't listen to me.
16:57Well,
16:57is there anyone in there
16:58that you'd trust
16:59and would be your best friend
17:00right until the end of the game?
17:01Oh,
17:01yeah,
17:01definitely.
17:02All three of the traitors.
17:04To be honest,
17:06at this stage,
17:07it's so early.
17:08It really is.
17:09You don't know each other yet,
17:11which is the hardest thing
17:11because it's hard to know
17:13if someone's slipping up
17:13like we talked about earlier.
17:14You don't know their personality.
17:16So,
17:16is that just them
17:17or is that them
17:18being guilty?
17:19I think once you kind of
17:21get to know people,
17:22you can pick up on things
17:23a lot better.
17:24Yeah,
17:24I say.
17:25But,
17:25I say,
17:26who would you write down
17:29on the first banishment?
17:31Whoever everyone else
17:32is writing down,
17:33to be honest.
17:33Would you?
17:34That Fiona thing
17:35doesn't help,
17:36does it?
17:36Like what you were saying
17:37about the small little things
17:38to go on.
17:39Maybe you'd vote Fiona.
17:40If I was a faithful,
17:41that's the only thing
17:42that I've got to go off.
17:43Yeah.
17:44That's it.
17:44You sit at the table
17:45with pretty much no idea.
17:48You're obviously just going to
17:48take in everyone else's ideas
17:49and to be quite honest,
17:51you're scared yourself
17:52of looking dodgy
17:52so you're going to
17:53literally put
17:54kind of what the group's saying
17:56and also you need the group
17:57to work together
17:57to get someone out
17:58and someone has to go,
18:00unfortunately,
18:00so it kind of makes sense
18:01if you have no idea.
18:03Obviously,
18:03if you have an inkling,
18:04then yeah,
18:04it's good to bring it up.
18:05If you have no idea,
18:06then go with the group,
18:07I say.
18:08So,
18:09we've got a whole bunch
18:10of new players
18:11to get to know
18:11over the coming weeks.
18:13So,
18:13let's discuss a few of them here.
18:14We've got a lot of people
18:15with interesting jobs
18:16this series.
18:18We've obviously got
18:19a secret barrister,
18:21someone who is a barrister
18:22but keeping it secret
18:22in Harriet.
18:24But we've got Hugo
18:24who is an actual barrister.
18:27Or is he?
18:28Hugo is being honest
18:29about being a barrister.
18:30Oh,
18:31so now you're worried
18:31that Hugo
18:32is pretending to be a barrister.
18:33He's a lollipop man.
18:35I think he's a
18:36Claire Balden impersonator.
18:38I love how
18:39this secret traitor thing
18:40has made none of you
18:41trust anything that we've seen.
18:42Like,
18:42I don't believe him.
18:43Okay,
18:44well,
18:44I think I can tell you
18:46that Hugo
18:47is genuinely a barrister.
18:48It'd be a rubbish job
18:49to choose to lie about.
18:50Yeah.
18:51Do you think
18:51that is going to draw
18:52suspicion to him?
18:53Yeah.
18:54Yeah,
18:54I think when people
18:55have got nothing,
18:55you grab onto anything.
18:57So,
18:57I definitely think...
18:58So you think it's smarter,
18:59the thing that Harriet's doing,
19:00which is concealing
19:01being a barrister?
19:02Yeah,
19:02or like what Leanne did.
19:03Like,
19:04I just think
19:04do something that people see
19:06as more like
19:06everyday relatable.
19:07True.
19:08I think makes sense.
19:08And if she can keep it
19:10a secret,
19:10that is.
19:11Do you know what I mean?
19:11She might slip up
19:12and I think that's another thing
19:13she's got to think about
19:14is you are lying
19:16in some way.
19:17And of course,
19:18we have the massive
19:18secret relationship,
19:20Judy and Roxy,
19:21a mother and daughter.
19:22Yeah.
19:22Let's remind ourselves
19:23of when Roxy
19:24revealed the secret.
19:25Oh my gosh.
19:27James is running wild
19:29saying Judy is a traitor.
19:31I don't know
19:32if she's a traitor or not.
19:33Judy seems lovely,
19:35but I'm bound to say that,
19:38considering she's my mum.
19:41Bloody hell,
19:42what my mind's crumbling.
19:44Keeping it secret
19:44just because I think
19:46if you come in as a pair,
19:48it's almost like an alliance.
19:50I feel super protective
19:51over her
19:52and hearing anyone
19:54like cast out on her
19:56for her actions
19:57is just generally
19:58not quite nice.
19:59So there we are.
20:00I mean,
20:00I personally think
20:02that Roxy's already doing
20:03quite a bad job
20:03of concealing the relationship
20:05because there's been
20:06conversations
20:07where she is talking to Judy
20:08in such a way
20:09that only a daughter
20:10would talk to their mum.
20:11Yeah.
20:11So going,
20:11you are quite loud,
20:12aren't you?
20:13It's like,
20:13no,
20:14you're supposed to have just met.
20:15You've just met me.
20:15You've just met me.
20:16You're quite a loud lady,
20:17aren't you?
20:17I was thinking,
20:18of course,
20:19that's your mum.
20:19And also giving her tips,
20:20didn't she,
20:21in front of people
20:22and it wasn't kind of
20:22like pulling her off
20:23to the side?
20:24Yeah.
20:24Because I know like
20:25Ross and Diane
20:25had little chats
20:26on the side
20:26like Ross said to her
20:27at breakfast that morning
20:28like,
20:28mum,
20:29sort yourself out
20:30kind of thing,
20:30didn't she?
20:31But with this,
20:32it was in front of someone
20:33and she was kind of like,
20:34maybe go round to the group
20:35kind of giving her advice.
20:37Yeah.
20:37Why are you giving
20:37another player advice
20:39at this point?
20:39It was also with DCI Amanda
20:41on all the way.
20:42Yeah.
20:43Yeah.
20:44Because I thought
20:45if I was Amanda
20:46and Amanda's not
20:47the secret traitor,
20:48I was a thought,
20:49Roxy,
20:49are you the traitor?
20:50Because that's quite,
20:51it's quite a weird thing
20:52to just say to someone
20:52you've met.
20:53Yeah.
20:54Like 24 hours ago
20:55kind of thing.
20:56Yeah.
20:56They're gone as out,
20:57they.
20:57Yeah.
20:59Tomorrow they're going
20:59to come into breakfast
21:00and Judy's going to be
21:01cutting up Roxy's food for her.
21:03Thanks, mum.
21:04Yeah.
21:05Here comes the aeroplane.
21:06I didn't like them
21:09when they were
21:09accusing Judy
21:10because you instantly
21:12really like her
21:12and the fact that
21:13she's got a daughter
21:14and the job she does
21:16and stuff,
21:16you feel quite protective
21:18so then,
21:19I mean,
21:19it would be
21:20a clever twist
21:20if someone so sweet
21:22is a secret.
21:23And also,
21:24it would be an interesting twist
21:25because she has
21:25a daughter in there.
21:27Yes.
21:27And again,
21:28I just think
21:29the secret traitor
21:29is just so mysterious
21:30that it being someone's mum
21:32is well on top of it.
21:33It's like,
21:33bam, bam, bam.
21:34I hope it's Judy.
21:36It would be good.
21:37But,
21:37not if they're going to get her out.
21:39No, no, no.
21:39She needs to stay till the end.
21:41Now,
21:42the other major thing
21:43that happened in this episode
21:44for me
21:44was Nettie and Ross
21:45happened to know each other
21:46outside of the game.
21:47Poor old Ross.
21:47Ross was fuming.
21:49He did not want that bomb drop.
21:50No, he didn't.
21:50And this,
21:51I mean,
21:51this appears to be
21:52a genuine,
21:53complete coincidence
21:54that they just happened
21:55to have met beforehand.
21:56It's a long time ago as well.
21:57It's not like a recent thing.
21:59No.
21:59And Nettie's like,
22:00Nettie just runs,
22:01like,
22:01oh my God,
22:02it's you.
22:03And Ross is like,
22:03whoa.
22:05I'm convinced
22:07that they're actually
22:08like brother and sister
22:10or like they're married
22:11because,
22:12I don't know,
22:12she was just,
22:14he was like,
22:14I think he said to her,
22:16let's pretend
22:16we don't know each other
22:17and she wasn't listening.
22:19So then she's just like,
22:21forgot that they're supposed
22:22to not know each other
22:23and then she's done that
22:24and now he's like,
22:25yeah,
22:25we haven't seen her in 10 years
22:27and it's like,
22:27you've seen her last night.
22:28So it's just a bit like,
22:29it's just like,
22:30yes and,
22:30it's just imp,
22:31it's gone,
22:31right,
22:32let's just do whatever.
22:33I think it is genuinely
22:34just the coincidence.
22:34Me too.
22:34And she's made the decision
22:36in that second.
22:37She's not thought about it
22:38and she said,
22:39oh,
22:40hello,
22:40we know each other.
22:41Whereas he's obviously
22:42had that extra thought
22:43of going,
22:43this will not help us
22:44in the game.
22:45Yeah.
22:45Well,
22:46it didn't because
22:46they both had their names.
22:48He did.
22:49Did she as well?
22:50She did.
22:51Yeah.
22:51I think everyone's thinking
22:52what I'm thinking.
22:53Is there more to this
22:54than what they're saying?
22:56Second guessing everything.
22:57I do think if people
22:59come to believe
23:00Netty,
23:00then I feel like
23:01that that was genuine.
23:03Yeah.
23:04Then maybe they'll believe
23:05that she's a faithful
23:06because clearly she's not
23:07someone who's playing
23:08any kind of game
23:08or like a poker situation
23:09and has just gone,
23:11oh yeah,
23:11and then maybe afterwards
23:12they'll be like,
23:12oh,
23:13I shouldn't have said that.
23:13Yeah.
23:14But it's therefore
23:15trustworthy.
23:16Yeah.
23:17Well,
23:17it was a jam-packed episode
23:19but we can't move on
23:20until we've talked about
23:21the massive first mission,
23:23the coffins in the lake.
23:25But it wasn't as simple
23:26as it seemed
23:26because true traitors fashion,
23:28there was an extra layer
23:29of savagery.
23:30Whoever had a coffin
23:32with the gold symbol
23:33put into their grave,
23:35that meant that
23:35they were up for murder.
23:37Everyone who didn't
23:37have the coffin put in
23:38technically had a shield
23:39at that point.
23:40Pretty brutal.
23:42How do we think
23:42tactics played into
23:44this?
23:44One of the groups
23:45said that they were
23:46just going for the first
23:47names that they saw
23:49which I think
23:50this early on in the game,
23:52that's probably
23:52what you're best doing.
23:53When you start to
23:54put people's names
23:56down for basically murder,
23:58it's kind of like
23:59you're saying they're a traitor
24:00or you don't trust them
24:01or,
24:02and then that's going to
24:03cause people to think,
24:04well,
24:04why did you pick my name?
24:05I'd be upset.
24:06If I was a faithful
24:07and my name
24:07was one of those 10 names,
24:09I'd be really upset.
24:10It's like if it was anything
24:11other than just at random.
24:12Yeah.
24:12Yeah.
24:13Whereas if it's random,
24:14then you're like,
24:14fair enough,
24:15it's the first name,
24:16whatever.
24:16Cause they were all
24:17claiming random,
24:18weren't they?
24:18They were like,
24:18just put it in the closest one.
24:20Well, the other team
24:20said that they had
24:23two people that they
24:24thought were maybe
24:26traitors,
24:26therefore don't bother
24:27wasting it on that.
24:29And then that's
24:30poor old Fiona's downfall
24:31when she got the wrong
24:32end of the oar.
24:33Yeah.
24:33But I'd also be upset
24:34if that was me
24:35and they'd just
24:36taken away my
24:37opportunity to have
24:37a shield.
24:38I'd be like...
24:39Agreed.
24:39Yeah.
24:40You're going to remember
24:41that as well,
24:42aren't you?
24:42It's so difficult to know
24:43whether you should
24:45put the coffin in
24:45if you suspect someone
24:46of being a traitor
24:47or you should absolutely
24:48not put the coffin in.
24:49And even if you do
24:50think those things,
24:51nobody wants to put,
24:52stick their neck out
24:53so early on.
24:53Yeah.
24:54I think doing the
24:55first thing you see
24:56is the easiest thing to do.
24:57Because there's very
24:58little game playing.
24:59I think I'm just
24:59at the back of the coffin
25:00and I'm holding on to it
25:01and I'm saying nothing.
25:02Keeping quiet.
25:03Yeah.
25:03I go, where do you
25:04want me to put it?
25:04Yeah.
25:05With the new twist
25:06of the secret traitor,
25:08Molly, what do you think
25:09people should be looking
25:09out for on the missions
25:10in terms of suspicions?
25:13The missions are going
25:14to be a good time
25:15for the traitors
25:16to look for the secret
25:17traitor, I guess.
25:19But...
25:19Anyone who's just
25:20wearing a bit of red,
25:21maybe?
25:22A red cloak would do it,
25:23wouldn't it, really?
25:24That would help, I think.
25:26Would help me.
25:27The thing is,
25:28the only person in there
25:29who would, I think,
25:29have red trousers
25:30would be Hugo
25:31and we know
25:31he's a traitor already.
25:33I think the thing
25:35that people could
25:36pick up on
25:37about the secret traitor
25:38if they're a traitor
25:39is kind of anyone
25:40trying to maybe
25:40throw them under the bus
25:41and kind of give clues,
25:43especially when it gets
25:44a bit deeper into the game
25:45and they need
25:46to find a traitor
25:47because it does get
25:47to that point
25:48where the faithfuls
25:49need to find a traitor
25:49because someone needs to go.
25:52Yeah.
25:52So I think when it gets
25:53to that point
25:54and they're doing missions
25:55or even just day-to-day,
25:57seeing who's trying
25:58to throw you
25:59under the bus
25:59maybe might be
26:00a good way
26:00to pick them out
26:01and obviously
26:02we're narrowing it down now
26:03with who they can murder
26:05and things like that
26:06but yeah,
26:07maybe something like that
26:08could help them.
26:08So who do we think
26:09is going to be
26:10the first murdered player?
26:12Obviously,
26:12the traitors are working
26:13from the shortlist
26:14of James,
26:16Nettie and Maz
26:17so it's going to be
26:18one of those three.
26:19Oh, not Maz.
26:20No, not Maz.
26:21Maz is a sweetheart,
26:22isn't he?
26:22He is,
26:22but I don't think
26:24it'll be James
26:24because I think
26:25he's been too vocal so far.
26:27Yeah.
26:27Therefore,
26:27the traitors could do
26:28with keeping him in
26:29because he's going to be
26:30one of the hot suspects
26:31so I feel like
26:32maybe Nettie
26:33considering the connection
26:34to Ross.
26:36But then do you not think
26:36there's suspicion
26:37on Nettie
26:38because of that connection?
26:39Right,
26:40so then Maz.
26:40I fear that it's going to be Maz
26:42and I don't want it to be.
26:44He needs to practice
26:45his Cobra, Ma.
26:46Yeah.
26:48He wasn't quite there with it.
26:49Yeah.
26:50And he's not going to have time.
26:51No.
26:52Yeah,
26:52I think because
26:53James has been
26:54throwing out accusations
26:55to the traitors
26:57would be silly
26:58to get rid of him
26:58because he will
26:59get himself banished.
27:00Yeah.
27:00That's what I think.
27:02Nettie
27:02is potentially looking
27:04shifty
27:04with the Ross connection
27:06and then that leaves Maz.
27:07I don't want Maz to go
27:08and I'll be devastated
27:10if it is him.
27:11Isn't it funny
27:11how you instantly,
27:13like,
27:13some people are just,
27:14you know,
27:14not that they're not all kind
27:16but some people
27:16just radiate
27:17a really kind face.
27:18There's a lot of
27:19very warm players
27:21this time.
27:22Yeah.
27:22I think Maz
27:23and Ross as well
27:25just really come through
27:26the screen.
27:27Yeah, definitely.
27:27I sort of love them already.
27:29When Maz said he had five kids
27:30we all went,
27:30Yeah, we did.
27:32Nice guys finished last
27:33they say.
27:34Oh, no.
27:36I hope not.
27:37Well, we've run out of time here
27:38but if you can't get enough
27:40the chat will continue
27:41on BBC Sounds.
27:42We're going to discuss
27:43what jobs and life experience
27:44make for the best
27:45traitors and faithful.
27:47Plus,
27:47I'll be getting predictions
27:48from Lucy, Mina, Molly
27:49and Jack
27:50on whether they think
27:51the traitors
27:51or the faithful
27:52are going to win this series.
27:54It's all in the bonus episode
27:55of Uncloaked
27:56in your BBC Sounds app
27:57right now.
27:58Find that in your app store
27:59or you can scan the QR code
28:01on screen.
28:02We'll be back again
28:03after episode two
28:04of The Traitors
28:05and this time on BBC One
28:07for the rest of the series.
28:08We'll have the first
28:09murdered player
28:10and if anyone's banished
28:11they'll be here too.
28:12Plus, some special guests
28:13including Joe Marler
28:15to unpack everything
28:16from the first few days
28:17at the castle.
28:18A massive thanks
28:19to Lucy, Mina, Molly
28:20and Jack for joining me
28:21and thanks to you
28:22for watching as well.
28:23I'm Ed Gamble.
28:24Stay faithful.
28:28I don't know about you.
28:29I'm loving it already.
28:31Unconventional
28:31and unpredictable
28:32faithful Hyundai
28:33Joe Marler
28:34will see you now.
28:35You can listen to that
28:36on BBC Sounds.
28:37And Fast Paced
28:38Dangerous
28:39and Glamorous
28:40the new series
28:40of The Night Manager.
28:41Press red and leap
28:42into the opening episode.
28:44That's on iPlayer.
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