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00:00They said that they'd found this weapon, murder weapon.
00:21They said that it had DNA on it, but nothing of Robin.
00:25There was nothing there at all to say that Robin had done it.
00:32There was no physical piece of evidence to link Robin to the death of Dinah at all.
00:38Not on his clothes from the minute he found her to being arrested to any of it.
00:44There was nothing. There's never been anything, has there?
00:47So we were confident. Everybody kept saying, we'll be fine, we'll be fine.
00:50In terms of prosecution case, my abiding memory of the evidence
00:55is that he was eviscerated in the dock.
00:57But then the jury's told in court his DNA is not on the weapon.
01:03And that's, from a prosecution perspective, really difficult.
01:09Everyone in court was thinking there is a great element of doubt there
01:12and he may be innocent.
01:24Armed police were scrambled to a quiet North Yorkshire hamlet this morning.
01:29The wife's been attacked.
01:31She's been attacked.
01:32She's been attacked.
01:33He had a gun and he said to me, don't be stupid, we've got your wife.
01:3740-year-old Diana was found dead in the living quarters of the post office she ran with her
01:43husband Robin in the village of Melsenbeen.
01:45The husband of North Yorkshire postmistress Diana Garbutt has been charged with her murder.
01:50This version of events of a robber coming in and killing her, it just wasn't plausible.
01:54I started to wonder, does that make him look guilty?
02:00But clearly there were flaws in that original investigation.
02:03I think the more in the court these things came up, the more you thought, well, something's going wrong here.
02:11I'm not a police officer, I'm not a detective, but clearly something's not being done properly.
02:20Something just didn't add up.
02:23The prosecution believed Robin had been stealing from the post office over a period of time.
02:28And that was based on information provided by the Horizon system.
02:33The post office prosecuted 736 of their own staff for theft or false accounting.
02:40The real culprit, the Horizon computer system.
02:43When they finally got the records, I looked at the statements and immediately I said,
02:49oh, hang on a minute, in my opinion, there's another side to this story.
02:55If there's flaws in this Horizon system, how can anything produced by the Horizon system
03:02be safely used in a court of law as evidence?
03:06It's about getting the truth about what happened to Diana.
03:21During the court process, you feel as if you're supposed to be in one camp or the other.
03:43Obviously his family are persuaded that he's not guilty.
03:47Whereas Di's family, her mum, Agnes, was persuaded that, you know, we've worked out what's happened,
03:57he's guilty, we're just going to go through this process of proving him guilty.
04:01I was in the, I don't know if he's guilty or not guilty camp.
04:11I don't know what happened.
04:13Try and decide as if a, as if he was a 13th member of the jury.
04:26Members of the jury, you are now going to hear from Mr. Hill,
04:30who appears on behalf of the defense.
04:34Ladies and gentlemen, I am going to suggest the prosecution case is no more than a theory,
04:40one which the police happened upon at an early stage.
04:45The area which the prosecution have perhaps concentrated on the most is the idea of motive.
04:51The prosecution have explored two areas, Mr. Garbutt's private life and their personal finances.
05:00Hearing what people were saying about Robin Di at trial, their personal life,
05:06for a lot of people in the village, it was very hurtful.
05:10They made out that she was like sleeping around and things.
05:14We have a, a close friend who had been going biking with her and, again, they had to say that
05:24that was some sort of relationship going on because she couldn't go biking with somebody
05:28on her own or whatever.
05:30In 2009, we had a bit of a rough patch.
05:35It happens sometimes with couples.
05:38Diana said she might need some space.
05:40We discussed it.
05:43When you get up at 4.30 and work late in a shop, you are tired.
05:47We didn't have enough sex.
05:50It upset Di at times, but we did discuss it.
05:54The prosecution suggested that it was a loveless marriage,
05:56that his wife was being unfaithful and was in contact with several men,
06:00either directly or through the internet.
06:02That's not a problem.
06:06Di did confide in me quite a bit.
06:09Not about everything.
06:13We would sit and have coffee, you know, and chat as friends would do.
06:19In terms of affairs, I didn't know any of that.
06:27I don't know. I can't answer that one.
06:28She quite liked to chat to people and just, you know, spend time with them,
06:35getting to know them, regardless of who they were or what age they were or,
06:39you know, male or female.
06:41And that could have come across as being flirtatious.
06:46The court also heard that Mrs Garbert had a page on a dating website on which she
06:51described herself as a 41-year-old girl looking to meet a guy aged between
06:5835 and 50.
07:02The prosecution set great store by the Badoo website.
07:05Although the computer crime unit trawled through Diana's laptop,
07:08there was no sign at all that she ever replied to any compliment or message saying hello.
07:14They were saying that she was on a dating website.
07:17I didn't know that. She'd never told me that.
07:19She'd never replied to anybody on this dating site.
07:23All it was was people messaging her or liking her picture.
07:28And all I could think of was that she kind of needed that bit of an ego boost.
07:32You know, she was, maybe her self-esteem was struggling a little bit.
07:36Did you suspect she was having affairs with other men?
07:39I didn't suspect Di was having affairs.
07:42As of March 2010, what did you think of the relationship?
07:47We had the best relationship.
07:49I thought we were a loving couple.
07:51I miss her terribly.
07:53They're making Di out to be somebody that kissed and got drunk and flirted.
07:59And it's wrong to do that when she's not here to say why.
08:03She can't answer for herself.
08:04There was one drunken kiss. There was flirtatious banter.
08:08It wasn't anything new to Robin, was any of that?
08:10It was a drunken kiss.
08:14Di went back to Robin and told him everything.
08:18They sorted it out. It was fine. And they carried on.
08:21The thing is, it's a year ago. It isn't a month ago. It wasn't the week.
08:26They had a wonderful marriage, didn't they?
08:28They worked through the bits and bobs.
08:30They've always done that because they've always talked.
08:33They've always been close. There only is them two. There's no children.
08:36Either of them could walk away, but they built a relationship together.
08:39Then he was devoted to her and they were fine.
08:44The prosecution said Diana Garbutt's infidelity intensified.
08:47But there is absolutely no evidence of that whatsoever.
08:52I suggest it is very, very thin evidence of motive.
08:56In fact, no evidence of motive at all.
09:00So the motive must have been their financial affairs, of course, personal finance.
09:06Why is this a reason for him to kill his wife?
09:09I and Robin never talked about their financials.
09:15They weren't extravagant.
09:17They didn't have luxury holidays.
09:20They didn't go out for expensive meals and things like that.
09:26But there was lots of rumours that Robin was stealing from the post office
09:30who could put his money to break two days by ordering lots of money
09:33and then not sending it back.
09:35cash management was an important part of running a branch part of your end of day procedure would
09:46be to count every single note every single coin in the branch and that had to be entered into
09:52the horizon system once you'd done that you could then put the money away lock up the safe and that
09:59was the end of your day that assisted then this algorithm to work out whether surpluses were
10:06building up or whether funds were running low and then it would adjust the cash that it would deliver
10:12to you but it didn't actually work like that in practice because invariably it was wrong and there
10:20were always arguments between postmaster and cash center as to whether or not he could top up his
10:27holdings in the branch with extra money it was a constant thorn in our side trying to get the
10:35cash levels right in a branch in order to serve the customers the police and the post office looked
10:46into running dine's finances and they said that that ron had been stealing over a period of time
10:51to sustain their lifestyle they said that robin was ordering more and more money from the post office
10:56and using it like a bank almost however there is no physical evidence of robin doing anything
11:03untoward with money that could have been taken from the post office where did all the cash come from
11:12we weren't desperate we didn't take cash from the post office our credit card debt had increased we
11:19were mindful of that we spent weekends away at nice hotels we spent maybe four thousand pounds per
11:26annum on holidays to the post office well the prosecution invested a lot of time suggesting
11:33that the money may not have been in the safe so the evidence given by the post office reputable
11:39institution i'm sure the jury will just taking that on board that's going to be right we're
11:44answering i'm going to question that and to be quite honest the way they gave it all it lost everybody
11:50in the courtroom anyway they lost me if the garbage had been in desperate financial straits
11:57why is this a reason for him to kill his wife it is a matter for you to consider the prosecution
12:03evidence is essentially that it's a crime of passion when you've got you know adulterous
12:08relationships when you've got unhappiness when you've got financial difficulties you've got an
12:13awful lot of pressure on a relationship there haven't you tension and potential you know motive for the
12:17murder do not forget it was diana who was doing the books diana who liaised with the accountant
12:24she was the one who had a handle on the financial situation diana's the postmistress the police
12:30say diana had been doing the account and so she would have known before 2010 if there'd been anything
12:46i think the prosecution at the trial didn't have a clue at any direction they were going they were
12:53just jumping at ideas so what they brought forward was it was stealing from the post office
13:01when that wasn't working so well it was diane was having an affair and when that wasn't working so
13:07well something else would be thrown in i don't think they had a direction or any idea they were fumbling
13:14all the way through it
13:18for somebody to be doing the job that they're doing and there to be no physical evidence for him to have
13:24killed her none whatsoever it really is unbelievable for me i would have to have physical evidence to
13:32say someone had killed someone
13:37i was involved in the investigation early on and the investigation team had a set of images of
13:51the bedroom where diana was found before any samples really have been taken before exhibits have been
13:59removed so i can see what it was like at the moment that that scene came under police control
14:10the crime scene essentially was the bedroom above the post office itself
14:17it was just a regular dwelling where there was a double bed bedside tables and lamps
14:27there were images that showed diana on the bed
14:31and she was positioned on her back on effectively the left-hand side of the bed and it was clear that
14:41there was an enormous amount of blood staining that was present on the sheets and on the bedding
14:57further on at the trial where we've learned the more of the detail you know that she'd been
15:06hit on the head from behind and you know more than likely that she was asleep at the time
15:14a post-mortem later confirmed three distinct head injuries blows delivered by a blunt object
15:22likely a metal rod that was so distressing so distressing and i kept thinking why three
15:31you know why have you done it three times that's just evil a reconstruction was carried out with the
15:39head of a mannequin to test the sequence of events
15:42the pathologist drew on this head the injuries that diana had sustained and then that allowed
15:56us then to sort of use this as a three-dimensional prop that we could then realign it with the pillow
16:04to try and understand how the bloodstaining might have developed from the injuries
16:08if her head's in the pillow facing to her left then she's probably asleep when the first blow is
16:18delivered and then turned to face her right which is very likely where the assailant was stood and
16:26where there are two additional blows in in one order or the other
16:30the women in the family are the strong characters you know whoever did it you know put robin
16:52as one of the um options but if it wasn't robin somebody else put an end to her life
16:59in a brutal cowardly way
17:03and you know if you're a fighter you don't expect that to happen to you
17:08i was really worried about my dad knowing that he'd be exposed to the level of detail of the crime and
17:22how close he was to diana knowing that he'd have to sit and listen to you know horrendous details about
17:31her death he hadn't gone into court gunning for robin being guilty he didn't see it like that at all he just
17:46wanted to establish as many facts as possible and wanted to make sense of it
18:01the pillow is kind of like the cover of the book
18:07you know it's like the picture and you think i wonder what the detail is within it
18:13there was a kind of brown smear then it was this kind of transfer of material that went across the
18:22pillow it wasn't blood but it was brown so it looked like perhaps a rust-like type material
18:30just to put this in context doctor there is evidence of dna on the pillow
18:36and the dna does not match mr garbot yes
18:43and the reality is that this could be dna from a murderer
18:48potentially yes they said that it had dna on it but nothing of robin but unknown male dna yeah and
18:57dies and diana just the fact that there'd been unknown male dna suggests straight away that there
19:04is other people involved in this otherwise why would unknown male dna be on the pillow
19:11the alleged murder weapon the iron bar was found two days later about 20 yards away from the house
19:32on top of a an eight foot ten foot high stone wall
19:40it was proven one end of the murder weapon was dna's dna she'd been struck by it
19:47and on the other end of the murder weapon was the dna of a policeman no dna robin whatsoever on the murder weapon
19:55i'm in north yorkshire police i'm currently based at york on march 25th there was a search for linear
20:07objects at melson bay the whole of my team was deployed
20:13how did your dna get in areas b and c i can't recall if i touched it dna can be transferred airborne
20:23i may have touched it i did not pick it up it's such an important thing that his dna is on that
20:32murder weapon at the opposite end of dna's dna
20:39in your second interview you were asked several times about your whereabouts on the 23rd
20:45there's a number of things i could have been doing it's six months down the line i checked the
20:52telephone bank statements and my mobile phone i can't find out
20:59clearly there were flaws in that original investigation there's no two ways about it you
21:03know to have a potential murder weapon and for the dna to be contaminated in that way that's from a
21:09prosecution perspective really difficult everyone in court was thinking there is a great element of
21:16doubt there and he may be innocent
21:28mr garbert when do you think diana died on that morning i don't know i have been going through this
21:36in my head i think it happened between 4 30 a.m and half past eight and you heard nothing of anyone
21:42moving upstairs no a big plea was made of the fact that there was a struggle upstairs his wife was
21:48murdered and he was completely unaware of it she would have put up a fight wouldn't she i would have
21:54thought so knowing die yes but you heard nothing whatsoever no struggle or fight or scream i did not
22:02hear anything so it appears that your wife has been killed without any apparent struggle i don't agree
22:09with that there was a clump of hair by her head which suggests a struggle there was a big projection
22:17slide put up and it showed a clump of hair on the bed near the pillow it was a shock
22:28because my first thought in my head is that die must have kicked into her army won and fought and that
22:39what she's done is pulled the clump of hair out that person it wasn't the color of robin's hair it
22:45wasn't the color of diner's hair it was a different color hair
22:53obviously they could have tested the route got the dna if it was on the database they could have told you
22:58what it was however north yorkshire police happened to lose the clump of hair well they asked where
23:07it was didn't they yeah they show it on the track they show it on the projector didn't they and then
23:11they said could you produce that and they said no we can't because we don't know where it is don't
23:15worry if we've lost it
23:20the head being lost as an exhibit is extraordinary really
23:23it's just like one thing after another after another it just beggars belief i'm not a police
23:32officer i'm not a detective but clearly something's not being done properly i think they thought right
23:41robin's done it and therefore we're going to concentrate on just the evidence to fit that
23:47and not look further afield i think the more in the car these things came up the more you thought
23:53well something's going wrong here something's happening here that isn't coming out right because
23:59this all can't be happening the errors that were made in terms of the handling of the murder weapon
24:05and also with a clump of hair it being lost
24:08that leaves that doubt doesn't it to a certain degree
24:15but i would suggest that it is pretty much eradicated by all the rest of the evidence
24:19against him really
24:28on the night before the murder mr garbot had gone to backless and other stores before picking up fish
24:36and chips he returned home between 8 and 8 30 p.m i took the fish and chips into the house
24:46die portioned it up i was asleep by 9 30.
24:52for the prosecution when she had her final meal and when she died time of death was absolutely crucial
24:58dr jennifer miller examined the contents of the deceased stomach after the post-mortem
25:03how do you make the assessment digestion can cease on death or on onset of severe trauma
25:10she's had fish and chips apparently that had been digested and you can tell a time of death from the
25:16contents of somebody's stomach because it stops being digested obviously when someone dies effectively
25:20the time scale is most likely six to eight hours after consumption six and eight hours later
25:27so taking the latest of those two times 8 30 would mean that the digestive process most likely ceased
25:35between 2 30 and 4 30 in the morning most likely yes they had an expert witness who said
25:44that they've examined the stomach contents and she died in line with their prosecution case
25:51she was so powerful in the dark everybody thought oh my god that was quite bad evidence against robin
26:00the really key evidence against him was about the fact that the pathologist had said that
26:04she died in the early hours of the morning so his account of her being murdered just before
26:09the robber came down and took the money from the safe and then left the premises
26:13that came to start to fall apart really
26:25in my experience the way post office alarms would work is that they're time lock safes
26:30that morning the unlocking process commenced at exactly 8 31 and 54 seconds a.m
26:44you're getting a beep beep beep beep beep beep sound for about four minutes
26:49and then when it went silent the locks had been undone
26:52the jury was told in court that there was only two minutes between
27:01safe opening and him making the 999 call in fact it was less than two minutes
27:10the robbery had to have taken place between 8 35 54 and 8 37 and 13 seconds
27:19so if you take his version of events at face value robber has to get in get the money out
27:27make the threats to him and then he's got away in less than two minutes
27:34i opened the safe door pulled the stamp tray out and put the tree on top of the safe
27:40then i had a noise i thought it was die
27:43the guy was stood by the side door and he had a bag with him he went to the shop till and took some
27:50money from the trail yes and then he left and by his account it all took place at a very very busy
27:57time not only for the shop but in the village you know people are waking up people are walking dogs or
28:01whatever it is no one has seen the person come out who's committed that murder
28:05i was hanging washing up at about 8 39 in the morning i can see the post office rear door from
28:14there the door to the post office was closed i saw no one or heard no one from the direction of
28:21the post office i saw no one crossing the yard
28:29presumably having gone upstairs you went into the bedroom to see your wife and assessed the situation
28:34before telephoning the police i can't remember because of this situation i can't remember at
28:40all anybody listening to that evidence would think why didn't you go across and check her why didn't
28:45you find out if she was dead why didn't you make an effort to resuscitate there was no need to go in
28:50because you knew that you had bludgeoned her to death that is all wrong i dialed 999 i would never die
28:58and you want to put the address of the emergency for the close of the trial um
29:17north yorkshire police released the details of the 999 call it's the call shop to east road milton
29:23day and that was actually released in its full it's in its entirety the recording
29:28and that steers with you that was a very for me anyway that was my abiding memory of that trial
29:36the 999 call made at precisely 8 37 on the morning of the 23rd of march last year from welsonby post
29:43office was the first the outside world view of the tragedy that had befallen postmistress diana garbit
29:49a distraught robin garbit is heard pleading with operators for help to save his dying wife
29:56are you with your wife now how old is she how old is she she's um 13
30:04i'm 24 35 so that's why she's 40. she's 40. right sir is she conscious
30:11no she's funny she's got a funny color and she's she's not responding to anything
30:17okay is she breathing i don't think so no no
30:20apart from calling 999 did you do anything to help mrs garbit did you give her resuscitation
30:31she was lying on her front i tried to turn her over i did try to help her
30:37what i want you to do is i want you to check her breathing
30:40how do i do that she's late she's late she's late on the belly with her head right in the
30:46right right right certainly her certainly her flat on her back on the ground
30:53she's in bed she's in bed i can't move her right sir we need to try okay we're going to try and help her
30:59can't move her we had to sit and listen to him and honestly he's just
31:09his voice and it it was just awful to hear awful you're doing really well sir just trying to pull
31:16her on her back did you manage to get her on her back right wait have you managed to get her on
31:26her back is there anybody nearby a neighbor that you can go and get to help you paramedics found
31:40themselves dealing with a frantic robin garbutt over the telephone they asked him was there anyone
31:46nearby that he could call upon to help and the woman he turned to was close friend and neighbor pauline
31:52died hello hello right we need to get have you got somebody there to help you i understand i'm going
32:02to tell you exactly what to do okay between the two of you you need to get your wife on her back
32:08on the floor it provided dramatic and emotional evidence today robin garbutt breaking down in the
32:23dock as his 999 call was played out to the court throughout that call you could hear that mr garbutt
32:29was crying and in clear distress oh no come on you're awake diana they told him to try various
32:44things i can't you know he physically couldn't do it so he went and got a neighbor the neighbor came
32:50around and sister robin was rolling die over and checking her you turned her over and saw what you
32:55had done to her in the daylight he was then asked if he would check if his wife was still breathing
33:01and he was heard saying to the late mrs garbutt oh die you're warm by then the paramedics were there
33:08and they confirmed that sadly she was dead the paramedic team then arrived on the scene and because
33:14mr garbutt hadn't hung up the phone his conversation with them was also recorded
33:19i've only i've only i've only just uh coaxed that uh uh part ten minutes
33:26sit upon three five minutes but you'd like that to remove this
33:31you know she's what you want
33:34is she all right tell me tell me tell me tell me
33:42i knew it
33:43forensic analysis was essentially that she died an awful lot earlier in the night
33:52and the paramedic was saying there was a bit of a discussion i know it sounds odd
33:58where robin was saying is she still warm or words to that effect and he was saying no she's been dead
34:02for some time and he was he was kind of contradicting that even at that stage because he would have been
34:06aware the prosecution contended that that was going to contradict his alibi
34:27he was captured saying to a member of the ambulance team of his wife she's warm the paramedic then
34:34told him but if you look sir that's what we call rigor mortis mr garbutt says to him it's not rigor
34:40mortis the paramedic replies it is i'm afraid and she's been down for some time the paramedic said she
34:47was blue she was subject to rigor mortis i cannot remember what the paramedic said i held her hand
34:55you knew her arm was stiff her fingers moved her legs moved when i tried to turn her over i was
35:03mindful of that he really was eviscerated in the dark in terms of his account and i think he was
35:10trying in my opinion he was trying to justify an awful lot of things and particularly in regard to the
35:15time scale of the time frame that would just ludicrous really at what time in the morning did you kill
35:23her mr garbutt i would never hurt die i loved my wife she didn't love you though did she mr garbutt
35:34she didn't love you i think you're very wrong i think she loved me back
35:45i had one uncomfortable feeling that i haven't mentioned which was during the court break
36:02i walked over to the door of the court just to have peep through the window to see you know is
36:09there any action is there anybody coming back in through the other way
36:11and i just looked at that through that window and in the reflection of that glass robin was looking at me
36:25and that was the first time that i felt you know uncomfortable by him
36:30and then you know of all the evidence i'd heard none of that had made me think that he was guilty
36:41but he was guilty of that act of you know
36:45i can look at your back but i can't look at your face
37:01ladies and gentlemen i have left until last possibly the most important witness
37:06brian hurt not a friend or best mate of mr garbutt just somebody who used the shop
37:12around 6 45 i went to the paper shop mr garbutt was serving we passed the time of day
37:23as i turned to go i heard a woman's voice she said one word robin he said yes die i'm 90 sure it was die
37:34or it was dear
37:48he was clear that at about 6 45 he heard a voice saying robin he said it sounded like a woman's voice
37:56and he said either yes die or yes dear
38:03the importance of that evidence cannot be overstated you just have to look at the till roll to see
38:11if this is quarter to seven customers are coming thick and fast mr garbutt cannot possibly have run
38:18upstairs hit diana with an iron bar run out and pop the bar on the wall
38:24there is no possible opportunity there's no doubt whatsoever that would back up mr garbutt's version
38:31of events and what's really quite difficult in the in the in the legal system is reasonable doubt
38:38i've been in court cases before where you get people who who genuinely you know jurors who ask for the
38:43judge to explain what reasonable is and and it's really hard to define you know
38:52the jury in the case of a man accused of killing his postmistress wife has retired to consider its
38:57verdict robin garbutt denies the murder of his wife diana at their post office at melsonby in north
39:02yorkshire last year much of this boils down to one key issue for the jury to decide that is
39:09when exactly did diana garbutt die now why is that that atmosphere in the court when you're waiting
39:16for a verdict is like something you've never experienced before it goes quiet and then it goes quieter than
39:26quiet if a minute silence can feel like a long time this feels like forever
39:38i'd sat there and listen to it all if i was a tutor i would have been one of the ones that said i don't
39:43know because i don't think you're there to say he didn't do it you're there to say i'm sure he did
39:51and unless you can he's not guilty
40:01foreman do you the jury find the defendant robin joseph garbutt guilty or not guilty on the charge of
40:08this indictment for murder we the jury find the defendant robin garbutt guilty
40:21his face was just like ashen it was just a real funny color
40:42he didn't really look at me or anybody he wasn't looking at anyone he was just sort of looking down
40:48and i just wanted to be able to get to him because i knew that he would need us and we couldn't do that
40:55for him
40:58i find it to be proved that the defendant was stealing cash from the post office safe
41:05i do not doubt that in some way his fear of exposure led to the murder
41:10i order that the defendant serves a minimum term of 20 years before he is considered for release
41:20by the parole board
41:27to see him there go down those stairs
41:30that was just the worst thing in my life that i think i'll have ever had to see because i knew he
41:39hadn't done anything wrong then our whole world was gone wasn't it our family and all that we fought for
41:46and justice had all gone yeah yeah i can remember sally screaming out oh no and it was just horrendous
42:04it was like how have you come to this decision what have you based this decision on
42:10because it isn't evidence
42:30we had a meeting with council after robin's conviction i banged my hand down on the desk
42:35and stood up and said you've managed to get the most innocent man in this country
42:40found guilty of one of the worst crimes you can possibly commit and mr hill turned out he said
42:48this isn't the end
42:51he said because we asked for information from the post office based on information provided by the
42:59horizon system
43:02but the post office said that information wasn't available when it actually was
43:09i joined the post office in 1978
43:13and then in 1988 my wife and i bought our own post office and we ran that branch for 38 years
43:21and all throughout that time i played a role helping and representing some postmasters when
43:28they got into disputes with the post office
43:32i've never trusted horizon
43:34and when they finally got the records i looked at the statements from the postal officials and
43:42immediately i said well hang on a minute the jury haven't been given all the facts here
43:47in my opinion there's another side to this story
43:59a little bit to say for that
44:03so
44:10the
44:16будете
44:17side
44:18side
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