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00:00Ask her a couple of questions about the release process.
00:03I'm a little bit intimidated to go talk
00:05to those guys who I haven't talked to in forever.
00:07Like, I am a grown-ass woman, but Mary,
00:11I need you to make that first call for me so he doesn't like.
00:15They get to say whether or not she was forced
00:18to stay married to Cody forever.
00:20It is kind of intimidating, and it shouldn't be that way.
00:23I am following through with my plans for apology to my ex-wives.
00:29I feel conviction in what I am doing.
00:33Well, you've done two of them.
00:35How do you foresee it going with Mary?
00:37To be honest with you, I feel like Mary probably
00:39has more, potentially more, bitterness.
00:44I love you, and I do my best to listen and not judge.
00:48But what the are you thinking, saying, OK, sure,
00:52I'm going to go meet you in Cedar City?
00:54I'm very curious to know what this is all about.
00:59If she punches me, I'll say, I deserve that.
01:03And I will persevere until she hears me.
01:07END
01:26I'm in Cedar City, Utah, and I'm in a strange mood today, and I'm here to, honestly, I'm
01:47here to apologize.
01:50I am sort of surprised that Mary agreed to meet with me after everything, but, you know,
01:56as long as I don't talk bad about Jen, I think I'm going to be okay.
02:00I haven't spoken with Mary except through lawyers.
02:04Mary and I weren't talking because we made an agreement when she moved.
02:09I helped her move.
02:11She was in a good place, and when we depart, it's like, we're going to be kind to each
02:15other, right?
02:16Absolutely.
02:17And the next thing I see is her friends just trashing me, and so I got right in her face
02:23on the phone, but I was like, you need to have your friends shut their mouths, and I
02:30berated her friends, and I think she took that really, really personal.
02:39Mary and I have a lot of history.
02:41There is a tendency for us to escalate a conversation to not even be able to talk in seconds.
02:56It's explosive.
02:57We never managed that in our marriage.
03:00If we want any kind of relationship at all, we're going to have to manage it now.
03:04Are you putting them in the trash bag?
03:19Mom used to always gather them in a bucket.
03:21We have buckets.
03:22And dump it.
03:23You know, we always had a garden in one form or another the whole time the kids were growing
03:28up.
03:28Look at how big arouses are, Maddie.
03:30Look, they're gigantic.
03:32Beats are coming now, and it's much easier to garden in North Carolina than anywhere I've
03:37lived before.
03:39So I've got to go for a couple of days.
03:41I've got to go to Salt Lake.
03:43I'm going to meet with the church leadership about a spiritual divorce from your dad.
03:48A release?
03:50Yeah.
03:51Yeah.
03:52I have approached the church leadership and asked for a release, given my justification,
03:57given my reasons, and then I need to go meet with them.
04:00And then I think it's kind of just a decision process after that.
04:05My initial reaction is, what the f***?
04:08Why?
04:11I don't want her to go back to it.
04:13I think plural marriage in general is pretty toxic.
04:18Look, I'm not part of the faith anymore, but Maddie, it was what I honored as a marriage
04:22covenant.
04:22It was a marriage to me, as binding as a legal marriage.
04:27So I just want to have all ties broken.
04:31Just so.
04:34What if they tell you no?
04:36Where do you stand if they tell you no?
04:39I will feel like I've done everything I needed to do, and I'll hold myself good.
04:44Divorced.
04:45If they say no, and I mean, I have to admit, it is a possibility, but I don't think so.
04:49But if they do, I don't think God intends for me to stay connected to this person who
04:55doesn't want to be married to me and has moved on with his life, and the same with me.
04:59Like, why would that need to be honored?
05:01But of course, that would be a little bit more of a crisis of faith, so I'd have to
05:05figure it out when I get there.
05:07Does Cody know you're going to ask for one?
05:09Yeah, I told him.
05:10You told him?
05:11Mm-hmm.
05:11He didn't really care.
05:13He was like, well, they're going to tell you you can't marry outside of the faith or
05:16whatever.
05:16I'm like, that's fine.
05:18I don't know what that means, and I don't really care.
05:20I'm going to marry who I want if I ever get married again.
05:22But, you know, it's okay.
05:23I can do what to, I can follow my conscience on how this is supposed to play out.
05:29Um, she may have told me that she was going to ask for a release.
05:33I don't remember.
05:34It's just not something I'm tracking.
05:37One thing that is an issue that I know is that I'm not allowed to ask for one.
05:42So if an ex-wife calls me a coward for not going to the leaders and asking for a release,
05:47it's because I did.
05:49And they said, no, you can't ask for one.
05:52You know, it's like it could be a dogma of the religion.
05:55I have no idea.
05:58I am a little nervous to go talk to the church leadership.
06:02I don't know what I'm going to get.
06:03I don't know what I'm going to be, what I have to expect.
06:05So it's always a little bit of that unknown that gives you some butterflies.
06:10If they say no, it's going to be a huge struggle for me to reconcile what I know is right compared
06:17to what they say, and that will be, that will be hard.
06:20You know, the whole situation with the property and the lawyers just made things, you know,
06:46pretty awkward, and so I'm like, how are we supposed to go into this conversation
06:51with the last time having no conversation?
06:56So I just don't know what to expect.
07:00Hey, Mary.
07:01How are you?
07:02I'm thriving.
07:05Thriving, good.
07:06How are you?
07:07Hey, listen, nothing but goodwill here.
07:09Do you want to hug or do you want to shake?
07:14I don't know, Cody.
07:16The last time I saw you, you completely ignored me, so I don't know.
07:21I'm sorry, Mary.
07:23I felt like you didn't even make eye contact, so...
07:26I only tried to make eye contact.
07:28Really?
07:29Okay.
07:29Yeah.
07:29Well, then we'll start from that bad place and move up.
07:34Okay.
07:35What do you think?
07:36Okay.
07:37Tell me about thriving.
07:38No, life is good.
07:40I'm just doing all good things.
07:45Good.
07:46Life is good.
07:47How about you?
07:48Details?
07:48What are your good things?
07:50You know what?
07:53I appreciate that you are curious.
07:58I'm friendly.
07:59But we're not in...
08:02We haven't had that kind of relationship to tell you all my deep, dark secrets.
08:06You know what I mean?
08:07Ooh, I'm not asking for those.
08:09I know.
08:11I'm just...
08:12I'm just...
08:12This is more about friendly.
08:18And I appreciate that.
08:19I don't expect you to be my friend.
08:21Well, I've tried.
08:23And I've wanted that.
08:25We said that we were going to do that.
08:27I agreed to that.
08:28And I did that.
08:30And then that...
08:30I did not feel that you did that.
08:32Well, I don't want to argue.
08:33Okay.
08:34I'm here for a whole different reason.
08:36Okay.
08:40Cody didn't talk a lot about his relationships to me.
08:44That was a private thing.
08:46Like, his relationship with each wife was private.
08:49But it's not that way anymore.
08:54I didn't feel like I needed to be there, because I know Cody will talk to me about it.
09:05Mine and Mary's history is its own minefield.
09:08One misstep can be like a landmine going off.
09:11And that's the reason I want to apologize, is I helped her create this world that is so toxic.
09:25Well, I still got the vibe that you're very sore.
09:29I'm very guarded, because I don't know what this is all about or why.
09:36And our last couple of interactions haven't been great.
09:41No, they've been through lawyers.
09:45So, but you've got all of your share of coyote bass.
09:54Okay.
09:55You should be very happy.
09:57I kept my promise.
10:05But I don't want to go for water into the bridge.
10:10I just want to start, or however you see it, just end.
10:17I apologize, Mary.
10:21Apologize for everything that has happened.
10:23I apologize for everything that has happened.
10:27And I basically want you to be able to have a very happy and wonderful life.
10:34I do have a very happy and wonderful life.
10:36I'm glad you do.
10:41That's good.
10:43That's a good thing.
10:45And that makes me feel...
10:49You don't need to feel anything about it.
10:52If you do, that's great.
10:55But I don't need you to feel anything about any way that my life is going.
11:02Okay.
11:06I want you more than anything to just be able to move on.
11:10I do.
11:11I am.
11:11I have.
11:13The way your friends talk about me, that doesn't seem like it.
11:16But I wanted you to be able to do that.
11:18You can stop right there.
11:22Listen, this isn't a time for us to fight.
11:25Well, then don't bring up my friends and what they say.
11:28Because guess what?
11:29I'm going to tell you this, Cody.
11:33No, I'm going to tell you this.
11:34Because it'll just ruin...
11:35No.
11:35I'm just here to apologize, Mary.
11:37Not to argue with you.
11:37No, I'm going to tell you this, Cody.
11:38I'm going to tell you.
11:39You're not going to shut me down anymore.
11:44My first mistake was ever saying that she did anything wrong.
11:49I don't need to win an argument, and I don't need validation here.
11:53And yet, I'm triggering.
11:54And I'm like, oh, dude, just stay on point.
11:58Just apologize again.
12:02You know, it's hard to hate a person who said, I'm sorry, a hundred times.
12:06At this point in the conversation, I thought, if this is how this is going to be, I'm not
12:14going to continue engaging in this.
12:16If it gets any more than this, I'm out.
12:19I'm going to walk away.
12:29You're in the basement, and you could hear everything upstairs.
12:32Yeah, Mary was upstairs, and I could hear everything.
12:36Apology is so needed here, because this is still so toxic.
12:44Do you apologize that you are toxic to me?
12:47I need to figure out what we've already spent with what's left in the budget, so we can figure
13:07all of this out.
13:07Because we've got a budget for it, but I'm going to be honest, I don't think I deducted
13:11the entire room.
13:12So we have a full basement in our house.
13:16None of the walls are finished.
13:18It's just one big, huge area.
13:19There's like plumbing for a bathroom, and we have plans for our basement.
13:24So a bedroom here, because I think having a room down here would be great.
13:28We're going to have a bathroom, full bathroom.
13:31Yeah, full bathroom.
13:31A bathroom for the kids, or whoever gets to come over.
13:34Mm-hmm.
13:36For guests.
13:36I have to be more creative.
13:37I can do it.
13:38For guests, or for one of our moms, I don't know.
13:41I don't know what's going to happen.
13:43And then this can be at its own apartment.
13:46I have to tell you, this was the craziest thing I was thinking about the other day.
13:51I used to be a basement wife.
13:53In polygamy, there is a term, basement wife.
13:57I'm having anxiety about it.
14:00It's almost like...
14:01That sounds kind of cool, a basement wife, and I have an upstairs wife, and then main upstairs.
14:06No, no, what did you just say?
14:08How many wives are you having?
14:09I have a basement wife.
14:11I don't like this conversation.
14:12Basement wife in polygamy is, you know, in houses, there's often a basement, and a wife
14:18sometimes has to live in the basement.
14:20But the mentality behind it is that you really are below another wife.
14:24When we moved into the Lehigh house, it was just my intention to be a team player.
14:28Like, there were three sections, there were three wives at the time.
14:30And, you know, Janelle had more kids, and there was only two bedrooms upstairs, maybe
14:35three bedrooms upstairs where Mary was.
14:37So it just worked to have me have that.
14:39It just worked.
14:40I was one.
14:41The last time we lived in Lehigh, and I really honestly felt like it.
14:45Did you do rock, paper, scissors to figure out who's going to be in the basement?
14:48No, no, true story, I volunteered.
14:50Wow.
14:51I know, I was so self-deprecating.
14:53You're in the basement, and you could hear everything upstairs.
14:56Yeah, Mary was upstairs.
14:56And Mary and Cody, they fall all the time.
14:58I'm just going to tell you that straight up.
14:59There are things you hear that you don't really want to hear.
15:03And I could hear everything.
15:08It's like I always knew where Mary was walking in the house.
15:10I knew what bedroom she was in, anything like that, just because it was super thin.
15:13The ceiling was super thin.
15:14So all the extra noises and things like that, yeah, I heard those too.
15:17There is this idea of a basement wife in a plural family, and it's really sad.
15:28It's unfortunate that it's a thing, but it kind of is a thing.
15:31I think in plural marriage, I think everybody takes a turn, maybe being the basement wife,
15:36I don't know.
15:37Like, I was the basement wife plenty in the early years, you know.
15:42It was never, ever, ever condoned by our church for there ever to be hierarchy.
15:47So if it was happening, it was because people weren't being cool.
15:51You're not going to shut me down anymore.
16:06The cruel irony in Mary saying, I'm not going to let you shut me down anymore,
16:15is the weirdest thing, because all three, two exes and Robin,
16:23don't believe Mary has ever been silenced, ever.
16:28This is something Cody's done the whole time I've known him,
16:31is just try to talk over me or try to stop me from saying something.
16:35I'm not going to let him do it anymore.
16:37I'm going to finish what I'm saying.
16:39And what I'm saying is, when I'm not treated well,
16:42the people closest to me will defend me.
16:46And that's what my friends do.
16:50Okay.
16:52I apologize for my feelings towards your friends.
16:59You don't have to apologize for that, Cody.
17:01You get, here's the thing, you get to have your feelings.
17:05You don't get to tell me them, though.
17:09No, I want to, no, it's not about my feelings.
17:11It's about, it's about an apology.
17:15Because, listen,
17:16Apology is so needed here.
17:24Because this is still so toxic,
17:26and I apologize for that.
17:28Do you apologize that you are toxic to me?
17:35Or are you just being general?
17:36Yes, I apologize that I am toxic to you, Mary,
17:39or was toxic to you.
17:45I mean, what do you want me to apologize for?
17:50I don't want you, I didn't know what this was about.
17:52I don't, but I don't feel like you need to apologize for-
17:56Nothing but goodwill.
17:57Okay, it, it's, I'm not getting that vibe.
18:02I'm not quite sure what I'm getting,
18:04and I'm very guarded by it.
18:05And I don't, I don't, I'm trying to understand
18:08if there's anything genuine here.
18:09Mary, I apologize.
18:11I am sorry, okay?
18:14Nothing but goodwill, okay?
18:18I want to let that,
18:20all that furniture float down the river.
18:22Dude, I didn't even bring this furniture with me.
18:27I'm trying to be funny.
18:32Metaphorically, I get what you're saying, though.
18:35I'm hella hilarious,
18:37and that's something you just don't get about me,
18:39so whatever.
18:40It's unfortunate.
18:44I'm sorry that I don't find you hilarious.
18:46I apologize for that.
18:47You don't need to apologize for not finding me funny.
18:50Yeah.
18:51The people who find me funny
18:52and are in my world
18:53and want to be in my world
18:54are there, and they get it.
19:01Cody, I said from the very beginning,
19:05sorry, from the beginning of the end.
19:08I know you did, Mary.
19:09That I wanted to be kind.
19:11Yeah.
19:13Yes.
19:14And I've, I feel like I've done
19:15a really good job of that.
19:17I feel like...
19:18I'm glad you do,
19:19and I apologize that I didn't seem to...
19:22What's the...
19:22Okay, you got to stop
19:23with the apologize word.
19:25The more you use it,
19:26the more it feels insincere.
19:28It triggers you?
19:29No, it doesn't trigger me.
19:30It just, it just validates
19:32that it doesn't feel like
19:33this is a sincere conversation.
19:34This is a terrible start,
19:39and I have to surrender to this.
19:42I cannot react to anything here.
19:44I have to ignore every trigger
19:48that I have struggled with for years.
19:51I have, you know, somewhere along the line here,
19:54we got to turn over a new leaf.
19:55I'm still trying to figure out
20:03how genuine it is.
20:05I'm not convinced yet,
20:07but I'm open to seeing how it goes.
20:10I'm not trying to make us back together
20:13in any way, Mary.
20:14Oh, hell.
20:14But it was...
20:15That's never gonna happen.
20:16No, no, I...
20:16We are never, ever, ever
20:17getting back together.
20:18I...
20:19This might be the one shot I get,
20:37and it's like,
20:38and I made a wrong step
20:40right off the bat.
20:42And it's almost like,
20:44okay, apologize.
20:46It's like if she complains
20:48about anything I have done,
20:49if I didn't do it,
20:50I'm going to apologize.
21:04Apologize mostly
21:05that I said I didn't love you.
21:08I just think that was wrong
21:10of me to say that.
21:12I want to apologize
21:13for how toxic I was
21:14during our breakup.
21:15I apologize
21:18that I wasn't there
21:20for you
21:20when we were in Las Vegas.
21:23I apologize
21:24that your dark time
21:25I wasn't there.
21:28The dark time
21:29was because you weren't there.
21:32I apologize for that.
21:34I want to give him the space
21:42to do what he intended to do.
21:45I'm still trying
21:46to figure out
21:47how genuine it is.
21:49I'm not convinced yet,
21:52but I'm open
21:53to seeing how it goes.
21:56I just...
21:57It was such a crazy...
22:01I know I'm not trying
22:02to make us back together
22:04in any way, Mary.
22:05Oh, hell.
22:06That's never going to happen.
22:07No, no.
22:08We are never, ever,
22:08ever getting back together.
22:10I...
22:11I'm not saying that.
22:13I don't...
22:14I don't know why
22:15you said that.
22:16I don't want my nostalgia
22:18to be mistaken.
22:19Oh, it's not.
22:21Okay.
22:21It's not.
22:22He just wants
22:24to make it clear,
22:25and I'm like,
22:26oh, it's clear.
22:28Oh, it's clear.
22:29It's clear on my part.
22:30I don't know
22:31how you feel.
22:32Like, are you trying
22:32to talk yourself
22:33into the fact
22:34that you still don't want me?
22:35Because I'm sorry.
22:37I don't.
22:39But I can tell you this.
22:41We will never,
22:42ever get back together.
22:44I'm so moved on.
22:46I'm so moved on.
22:48Your use of the word
22:49apologize
22:50feels very extreme
22:53and very forced to me.
22:56So I don't...
22:56I don't...
22:57I can't...
22:57I can't tell, like...
23:00There's parts
23:01of this conversation, Cody,
23:02that I...
23:03I'm actually very uncomfortable, Mary.
23:05I triggered the minute
23:06we got together.
23:07I apologize for that.
23:08Oh, my God.
23:09Okay.
23:11Why?
23:11Because I walked
23:12into your space?
23:14Cody, I'm not a bad person.
23:15I will stand
23:16my boundaries, though,
23:17and I think
23:18that's very uncomfortable
23:19for you.
23:20Uh, no.
23:21I...
23:22This is an apology.
23:23It is nothing
23:24but goodwill.
23:25Is it?
23:26Nothing.
23:28Nothing but goodwill.
23:29Cody, I would love
23:30to have a conversation
23:31instead of just sit here
23:32and listen to you apologize.
23:34You and I can't talk
23:36because we will trigger
23:37each other
23:38no matter what.
23:39So I don't get
23:40to say anything
23:41or ask questions
23:42or...
23:42You can't feel...
23:44Yes, please feel free.
23:46But you just said
23:47that I can't.
23:48Well,
23:49I mean, like,
23:51listen,
23:51I'm not here
23:52to argue about something.
23:53I don't want to go
23:54picking the luggage
23:55out of the river.
23:56It's down the river,
23:57all of this,
23:58our whole experience is.
23:59Okay.
24:00All right.
24:02I'll be fair.
24:03If there's something
24:04you want to discuss
24:05for the sake of closure...
24:06I don't need closure.
24:09Okay.
24:09I think...
24:10I think I have just...
24:13No, I'm...
24:15I don't need any closure.
24:18Okay.
24:18Closure's done.
24:21Okay.
24:22The more this conversation
24:24goes on
24:24and the fact that he's saying,
24:27no, we can't have
24:27a conversation,
24:29it's...
24:30It's for him.
24:31It's for sure.
24:32Just all about him.
24:33Which is fine.
24:34If he needs this,
24:36he can have it.
24:38There's a point
24:40in my life
24:41where I had an attitude
24:43about a wife
24:45who threatened to leave.
24:46And I thought,
24:47well, I'm just going
24:48to buy her that house
24:49down the street,
24:51let her live in it for free,
24:54pay the child support,
24:56and be as generous
24:57as I can to her
24:59so that I can have
25:00access to my children.
25:04That's what you always
25:05said you were going to do.
25:08Always had that.
25:10And I'm ashamed
25:12that through the divorce
25:13processes and stuff like that,
25:15I...
25:15I forgot who I was.
25:18But my intentions
25:19had gotten
25:20really
25:22out of line
25:24with my soul.
25:27You know,
25:28before Robin
25:29even came in the family,
25:30he used to always say that.
25:35And so
25:36over the past few years,
25:40when I
25:41haven't
25:42seen him
25:43behave in the way
25:45that he always said
25:47he was going to behave,
25:48it's been very disappointing.
25:52Mary was the legal wife,
25:59and so she'd have
25:59more opportunities
26:00to do things with Cody.
26:02So I felt like
26:02she was probably
26:03more important than that
26:04than I was.
26:05But I don't think
26:05that was on her.
26:06I really honestly don't.
26:07I would say
26:08it's more of the man's fault
26:10because it shouldn't be
26:12one above the other wife.
26:14The last thing
26:15that I ever wanted
26:16was one wife
26:17being in charge
26:19of another wife.
26:19When you set out
26:30for a plural family,
26:31what you hope
26:31is that everybody
26:32is equal
26:33and all the wives
26:34have equal say.
26:35There are some families
26:36where it does not
26:37work out that way.
26:40Some families,
26:41there's one wife
26:41that's more important
26:42than all of the other wives.
26:44In our family,
26:45there were times
26:45where I felt like
26:45Mary was more in charge.
26:46Whose fault is that?
26:47All of our faults.
26:48I would say
26:49it's more of the man's fault
26:51because if one wife says,
26:53hey, I'm the first
26:55and therefore I'm this way,
26:57he should focus
26:58on making it more equal
26:59to what goes on.
27:01It shouldn't be one
27:02above the other wife.
27:05As soon as I married Cody,
27:07he was like,
27:07there's a lot of things
27:08that Mary does
27:08that I really, really like.
27:10And I mean,
27:11if you want me to like them,
27:13then maybe you should,
27:14you know,
27:14do them like she does them
27:15kind of thing.
27:16He liked the way
27:17that she cleaned
27:18and cooked
27:18and dressed
27:19and all of these things.
27:21And Mary was the legal wife
27:22and so she'd have
27:23more opportunities
27:23to do things with Cody
27:24because she was the legal wife.
27:26So I felt like
27:27she was probably
27:27more important than I was.
27:29But I don't think
27:29that was on her.
27:30I really honestly don't.
27:32And I think that Cody
27:33wasn't even meaning it
27:34to be completely honest.
27:36I don't think
27:36he was trying to.
27:37But I do think
27:38that it just happened.
27:41In our early years
27:42before Robin came
27:43in the family,
27:44it definitely felt like
27:45that Cody would rotate
27:47his attention
27:49or affection
27:49between me
27:51and Janelle
27:52and Christine.
27:53Like,
27:53and I knew,
27:55like,
27:55it was very obvious
27:56that, like,
27:58he was definitely rotating.
28:01It wasn't like
28:03there was one person
28:04who was his favorite
28:05for the whole time
28:07until Robin came
28:08in the family, right?
28:08It was like he rotated.
28:10He took turns.
28:11Even in the culture,
28:12the first wife
28:13gets a huge,
28:14massive wedding.
28:15The next ones are small.
28:17The next one...
28:18Yeah, we've been
28:18to a wedding there
28:19and it's like
28:20going to a funeral.
28:21Yes.
28:21It is so weird.
28:23Plural weddings
28:24are, like,
28:25way too weird.
28:26I knew growing up
28:27that I would have
28:27to marry a convert
28:28because I was literally
28:29related to everybody
28:30in the church.
28:32I did marry a convert,
28:33but I was still
28:34related to him, too.
28:36What?
28:36Yeah, I'm related to Cody.
28:37That's not cool.
28:39Third cousins
28:40once removed
28:41is fully legal.
28:43Fully.
28:43Polygamy's not legal,
28:44but I'm third cousins
28:46once removed from Cody.
28:48Wow.
28:49Wow.
28:50I know.
28:50There was always
28:51this joke about
28:52they were cousins,
28:52but they are so distant
28:53and related.
28:54It's ridiculous.
28:55I think in the polygamist
28:56families,
28:56this kind of stuff
28:57happens all the time.
28:58It wasn't the kind
28:59of relationship
28:59where, like,
29:00you'd side to
29:00their family reunion.
29:02Like, it was
29:02a very distant relationship,
29:03but they would always
29:04joke about being cousins.
29:06It just is a small community.
29:08Being a second wife,
29:11third wife,
29:11or fourth wife,
29:12you're never,
29:13ever going to be
29:14equal to that
29:15first wife.
29:16But I'm not going
29:17to say all ones.
29:19It depends on
29:20what group it is
29:20because down in Mexico,
29:23I've been to ones
29:24that haven't been
29:25that way.
29:26There are some families
29:27that work just fine.
29:28And even if a wife
29:28has a basement,
29:30she's not a basement wife.
29:33I want to make it clear
29:35that I never was
29:36trying to promote
29:37a pecking order.
29:38The last thing
29:39that I ever wanted
29:40in my life
29:41was one wife
29:42being in charge
29:43of another wife.
29:45No way, man.
29:47The problem was
29:48when I had everybody
29:48in the same home,
29:49they started to develop
29:51a pecking order.
29:53And I'm like,
29:53this is bull.
29:55I'm going to work.
29:56You guys work it out.
29:58I'm going to go
29:58make sure the mortgage
29:59is paid while you guys
30:00scrap it out here.
30:01Go to church
30:04so you learn
30:04to be charitable.
30:07I like it.
30:08Thanks, baby.
30:08I like all of your ideas.
30:10I'm excited.
30:10You're no longer
30:11a basement wife.
30:12Oh, thank God.
30:17I do not like
30:18how this felt.
30:19Yeah, it's,
30:21there's some things
30:22I don't want to relive,
30:23you know?
30:24Might be one of them.
30:25Guess what, baby?
30:26What?
30:26I'm a home housewife now.
30:28Ooh.
30:29You're my home man, baby.
30:31My home man.
30:33Salute.
30:43Cody, I recognize,
30:44I recognize more in you
30:45than you think
30:46that I recognize.
30:49And I know you think
30:50I'm a bitch,
30:51and I know you think
30:51all my friends are bitches,
30:53and you can keep
30:54thinking that if you want.
30:55That doesn't matter.
30:56No, it matters to me.
30:58I mean, it doesn't matter
30:59because what you think
31:00of me and my friends
31:00doesn't matter,
31:02but my point is...
31:03Let me just...
31:04Mary, my opinion
31:05of your friends
31:06and my opinion of you
31:08is none of your business.
31:11And I'm not saying
31:12that to be rude.
31:14I'm saying that
31:15because it matters
31:16that you do not care.
31:19I don't care.
31:21And that's good.
31:23Mary, you and I
31:24will tit for tat
31:26the rest of our lives
31:27if we just
31:29don't let it go.
31:33I want to let it go.
31:35I don't want to just...
31:36I've let it go.
31:37You just need
31:37to stop doing it.
31:39Just be the person,
31:41Cody,
31:41that you say
31:42that you are,
31:43that you want to be,
31:44and don't do that.
31:45It's not cool.
31:46Okay.
31:47Okay?
31:47If it is not my business,
31:49don't say it out loud
31:50for me to hear it.
31:52Okay?
31:53Okay.
31:53I have plenty
31:54of thoughts about you.
31:56I have plenty of opinions.
31:58I have plenty of conversations
31:59in my head
32:00about the way things
32:01have gone down.
32:02I don't want to argue with you.
32:04I'm not arguing.
32:05I'm just...
32:05I sat there...
32:05But everything you say
32:07when you're not apologizing,
32:09when I'm apologizing,
32:10you don't have an argument.
32:12But now you're arguing.
32:14I'm not arguing.
32:17I'm wanting to say something
32:19and you shut me down.
32:20This is how it's been
32:20our whole lives.
32:21I don't want to pull
32:22that luggage back
32:22out of the river.
32:23Okay, you can keep talking
32:24about the luggage.
32:25That's just fine.
32:26It's just all that stuff
32:27is in the past.
32:28Okay, but you got to say
32:29some stuff.
32:31I apologized
32:31is what I did, Mary.
32:33Your apology is welcome
32:35if you want to give one.
32:38But I'm apologizing...
32:39No, I'm just asking you,
32:41Cody,
32:42to keep your opinions
32:43about me and my friends
32:45to yourself.
32:45If it's not my business,
32:47please keep it to yourself.
32:48Please ask your friends
32:49to keep their opinions
32:50of me to themselves
32:52because they don't know me.
32:58They were around
32:59for many years
33:00and you know that.
33:01Not with me.
33:03Just with you.
33:05Nope, not just with me.
33:07I failed here
33:10because I was not
33:12sticking to my guns
33:13of just being
33:14in a benevolent state.
33:16But I'm trying
33:18to run from the argument
33:19and yet I'm still stopping
33:20to gear up
33:22for the next blow.
33:25I'm...
33:26It feels like
33:28an impossible task.
33:29I am here today
33:37to get the release
33:39from Cody.
33:40I haven't been
33:41really affiliated
33:42with that church
33:43for 15 years.
33:45Kind of nerve-wracking
33:46to go in there,
33:47but here we go.
33:48I am here today
33:59because I'm going
34:00to go in and meet
34:00with our church leadership
34:01to get the release
34:04from Cody.
34:07I just don't know.
34:08I just don't know
34:08what to expect going in.
34:09I haven't been
34:10really affiliated
34:11with that church
34:12for 15 years.
34:14Yeah, I don't know.
34:15It's kind of nerve-wracking
34:17to go in there,
34:18but here we go.
34:20For us, it really is
34:21just going before
34:22the leadership of the church
34:23and making kind of
34:24your request.
34:26I'm just going to explain
34:27that he and I
34:28don't live together anymore
34:28and he's definitely said
34:30he wants to live with Robin,
34:32that he's totally
34:33in love with her
34:34or whatever
34:35and he's estranged
34:36from my children
34:37and so I feel like
34:38it's okay for me
34:40to be released.
34:40That's what I'm saying.
34:42Mary's situation
34:43was different than mine
34:44because Cody had...
34:46Cody and Mary
34:46and I had not lived together
34:47for a very long time.
34:49Years.
34:52For me,
34:53there isn't really
34:55anything like that.
34:56Cody and I's relationship
34:57was really functioning
34:58until the last
35:00three or four years.
35:02Yeah, I just hope
35:02that's enough.
35:03I hope that's enough.
35:04I hope that's enough.
35:16We have a history, Cody.
35:19I mean, you piss the hell
35:21out of me
35:21more ways
35:22than we can even
35:24talk about.
35:26Yeah.
35:26And I know it
35:28goes both ways.
35:31But I also know
35:32that we're never going to see
35:33eye to eye on things
35:35because even though
35:36we were in the same space
35:38on our experiences,
35:40our experiences
35:42are so vastly different.
35:46Do I wish
35:47that I had never married you?
35:49Do I wish
35:49that we had never
35:50lived plural marriage?
35:51Do I wish
35:52that we had
35:53never moved out
35:54of wherever
35:55any of our moves?
35:56Right?
35:57No, I can't.
35:58I can't and I won't
35:59and I don't wish that
36:00because all those
36:01moments made me
36:02who I am
36:03and gave me
36:04the family
36:05that I have
36:06which I still
36:07consider family.
36:08Okay?
36:09My point is
36:10I hope you don't
36:11I hope you're
36:12at a place now
36:13that you
36:14you can say
36:15that you
36:16don't regret it
36:18because
36:19you have
36:21so many kids,
36:23Cody
36:24and I don't want
36:25Let's not talk
36:26about the kids.
36:28That's verboten.
36:30That's what?
36:31Verboten.
36:32I don't know.
36:33What these big words
36:34that you're saying?
36:34Verboten.
36:35It means it's not allowed
36:36because it's a whole
36:38stream of bull
36:38and I don't want
36:39to talk about it.
36:41I'm working out
36:42my relationship
36:43with my children.
36:44Okay.
36:49I understand
36:50that everybody changes.
36:51There's no way
36:52I could ever expect
36:53me to be
36:54the same person
36:55I was 30 years ago
36:56or him to be
36:58the same person
36:58he was 30 years ago
37:00but I would expect
37:01him to get better
37:03and be better
37:04and I have not
37:06seen him
37:07be better
37:08in some of these
37:09ways that he's
37:11been handling
37:12the divorces
37:13the property
37:15his relationship
37:17with his children
37:18I have not seen
37:20improvement there
37:22and that makes me sad
37:26it makes me really sad
37:27This
37:30I want you to feel
37:34like this is about you
37:35but it's really
37:35about me and God
37:36I can tell it's about you
37:38No, it's about me and God
37:39Oh, well
37:40okay
37:40him too
37:41that's great
37:42but I can tell
37:43I mean
37:43the almighty
37:44requires
37:45I don't need it
37:46to be about me
37:48Thank you
37:51Thank you for
37:53an absolutely
37:55fascinating
37:56and wonderful
37:57life experience
37:58that we shared
37:59It was
38:02It was very fascinating
38:04and there was
38:06definitely
38:06wonderful moments
38:07Okay
38:13I had this
38:16realization
38:16a while ago
38:17that
38:18I was trying
38:21so hard
38:22to understand
38:23him
38:23and I
38:24finally came
38:25to this realization
38:26of
38:26I don't have to
38:28and I'm glad
38:30that I don't
38:31understand it
38:32I'm happy
38:34that I understand
38:35me
38:35and what I'm
38:37doing in my life
38:38and that's
38:39all that matters
38:40I had to run
38:41the restroom
38:42really bad
38:43so
38:43Okay, well
38:44you better run off
38:44I'm going to say
38:45goodbye
38:46Alright
38:46Well, thank you
38:47I appreciate it
38:48Most people
38:50I mean most
38:51divorce and move on
38:54I don't know
38:55what kind of
38:57relationship
38:57I have
38:59with my ex-wives
39:00I've gone through
39:01three divorces
39:02while being married
39:03to one woman
39:04who was there
39:04standing to support me
39:06and there's one woman
39:07in my life
39:08and these three
39:10are ex-wives
39:11at best
39:13to only be friends
39:14Thanks for meeting me
39:17Now we can have a hug
39:18You sure?
39:19Yes
39:20Thank you, Mary
39:21Thank you for the grace
39:23and the kind
39:24understanding
39:24Well, thank you
39:27for the chat
39:29and the apologies
39:30I appreciate it
39:31You're welcome
39:32I'm actually going to run
39:34because now that I stood up
39:35I have to
39:35I hope it doesn't leak
39:37I'm not that old
39:39I beg to differ
39:41I know your birthday
39:43Well, from now on
39:47from here out
39:48like I hope
39:50the swords are down
39:50If we can move forward
39:52in the future
39:53just making sure
39:55that we are very kind
39:56we might be able
39:57to remain
39:58in good places
39:59with each other
40:00I'm not sure
40:05at this point
40:06you know
40:07what this all means
40:09There's been a lot
40:11throughout this whole
40:13divorce process
40:14throughout the property
40:15process
40:15things that I've
40:16discovered since then
40:17but it doesn't affect
40:20me
40:21I'm not listening
40:23to what he says
40:24and his opinions
40:24and his apologies
40:25and his thoughts
40:26and letting it affect me
40:28I don't do that
40:34anymore
40:35Next time
40:42on Sister Wives
40:43I haven't been
40:44very fair with you
40:45Taking accountability
40:47for his part
40:49gave him
40:49some peace
40:50I love the family
40:54that we have
40:54and I would do
40:56it all again
40:57I don't regret
40:57anything in the last
40:5830 years
40:59Are you dating?
41:01I've dated
41:02dated around
41:03you know
41:04Ron and I
41:07definitely have
41:08a connection
41:09This is beautiful
41:11There's a reason
41:13why we're in
41:14each other's lives
41:15what that reason is
41:17you know
41:17remains to be seen
41:18I've always wanted
41:19to do this
41:20this is going to be
41:21fun
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