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00:00Ask her a couple of questions about the release process.
00:03I'm a little bit intimidated to go talk
00:05to those guys who I haven't talked to in forever.
00:07Like, I am a grown-ass woman, but Mary,
00:11I need you to make that first call for me so he doesn't like.
00:15They get to say whether or not she was forced
00:18to stay married to Cody forever.
00:20It is kind of intimidating, and it shouldn't be that way.
00:23I am following through with my plans for apology to my ex-wives.
00:29I feel conviction in what I am doing.
00:33Well, you've done two of them.
00:35How do you foresee it going with Mary?
00:37To be honest with you, I feel like Mary probably
00:39has more, potentially more, bitterness.
00:44I love you, and I do my best to listen and not judge.
00:48But what the are you thinking, saying, OK, sure,
00:52I'm going to go meet you in Cedar City?
00:54I'm very curious to know what this is all about.
00:59If she punches me, I'll say, I deserve that.
01:03And I will persevere until she hears me.
01:07And we'll see you, too.
01:11See you soon.
01:12...
01:12...
01:12...
01:17So now...
01:24I'm in Cedar City, Utah, and I'm in a strange mood today, and I'm here to, honestly, I'm
01:48here to apologize. I am sort of surprised that Mary agreed to meet with me after everything,
01:56but, you know, as long as I don't talk bad about Jen, I think I'm going to be okay. I haven't spoken
02:01with Mary except through lawyers. Mary and I weren't talking because we made an agreement
02:08when she moved. I helped her move. She was in a good place, and when we depart, it's like,
02:14we're going to be kind to each other, right? Absolutely. And the next thing I see is her
02:19friends just trashing me. And so I got right in her face on the phone, but I was like,
02:25you need to have your friends shut their mouths. And I berated her friends, and I think she took
02:33that really, really personal.
02:34Mary and I have a lot of history. There is a tendency for us to escalate a conversation
02:49to not even be able to talk in seconds. It's explosive. We never managed that in our marriage.
02:59If we want any kind of relationship at all, we're going to have to manage it now.
03:17Are you putting them in the trash bag? Mom used to always gather them in a bucket.
03:21We have buckets. And dump it. You know, we always had a garden in one form or another the whole time
03:27the kids were growing up. Look at how big the rashes are, Maddie. Look, they're gigantic.
03:32The bees are coming now. And it's much easier to garden in North Carolina than anywhere I've lived before.
03:39So I've got to go for a couple of days. I've got to go to Salt Lake. I'm going to meet with
03:43the church leadership about a spiritual divorce from your dad.
03:48A release?
03:50Yeah. Yeah.
03:51I have approached the church leadership and asked for a release, given my justification,
03:57given my reasons, and then I need to go meet with them. And then I think it's kind of just
04:01a decision process after that.
04:05My initial reaction is, what the f***? Why?
04:11I don't want her to go back to it. I think plural marriage in general is pretty toxic.
04:17Look, I'm not part of the faith anymore, but Maddie, it was what I honoured as a marriage
04:22covenant. It was a marriage to me, as binding as a legal marriage. So I just want to have
04:29all ties broken. Just so.
04:34What if they tell you no?
04:36Where do you stand if they tell you no?
04:39I will feel like I've done everything I needed to do, and I'll hold myself good.
04:44If they say no, and I mean, I have to admit, it is a possibility, but I don't think so. But
04:49if they do, I don't think God intends for me to stay connected to this person who doesn't want
04:55to be married to me and has moved on with his life, and the same with me. Like, why would that
05:00need to be honored? But, of course, that would be a little bit more of a crisis of faith,
05:04so I'd have to figure it out when I get there.
05:07Does Cody know you're going to ask for one?
05:09Yeah, I told him.
05:10You told him?
05:11He didn't really care. He was like, well, they're going to tell you you can't marry
05:15outside of the faith or whatever. I'm like, that's fine. I don't know what that means,
05:19and I don't really care. I'm going to marry who I want if I ever get married again.
05:22But, you know, it's okay. I can do what to, I can follow my conscience on how this is supposed
05:28to play out.
05:29Um, she may have told me that she was going to ask for release. I don't remember.
05:34It's just not something I'm tracking.
05:36One thing that is an issue that I know is that I'm not allowed to ask for one.
05:42So if an ex-wife calls me a coward for not going to the leaders and asking for a release,
05:47it's because I did. And they said, no, you can't ask for one. You know? It's like,
05:53it could be a dogma of the religion. I have no idea.
05:55I am a little nervous to go talk to the church leadership. I don't know what I'm going to get.
06:03I don't know what I'm going to be, what I have to expect. So it's always a little bit of that
06:06unknown that gives you some butterflies. If they say no, it's going to be a huge struggle for me
06:13to reconcile what I know is right compared to what they say. And that will be, that will be hard.
06:20You know, the whole situation with the property and the lawyers just made things,
06:46you know, pretty awkward. And so I'm like, how are we supposed to go into this conversation
06:51with the last time having no conversation? So I just don't know what to expect.
07:00Hey, Mary. How are you?
07:02I'm thriving.
07:05Thriving. Good.
07:06How are you?
07:07Hey, listen, nothing but goodwill here. Do you want a hug or you want to shake?
07:11I don't know, Cody. The last time I saw you, you completely ignored me. So I don't know.
07:21I'm sorry, Mary. I felt like you didn't even make eye contact.
07:26I only tried to make eye contact.
07:28Really? Okay.
07:29Yeah.
07:29Well, then we'll start from that bad place and move up.
07:34Okay.
07:35What do you think?
07:36Okay.
07:37Tell me about thriving.
07:38No, life is good. I'm just doing all good things.
07:45Good.
07:46Life is good. How about you?
07:48Details? What are your good things?
07:50You know what? I appreciate that you are curious.
07:58I'm friendly.
08:00But we're not in... We haven't had that kind of relationship to tell you all my deep,
08:06dark secrets. You know what I mean?
08:07Ooh, I'm not asking for those.
08:09I know.
08:11I'm just...
08:12This is more about friendly.
08:18And I appreciate that.
08:19I don't expect you to be my friend.
08:21Well, I've tried. And I've wanted that. We said that we were going to do that.
08:27I agreed to that. And I did that.
08:30And then that I did not feel that you did that.
08:32Well, I don't want to argue.
08:34Okay.
08:34I'm here for a whole different reason.
08:36Okay.
08:40Cody didn't talk a lot about his relationships to me. That was a private thing. Like, his
08:47relationship with each wife was private. But it's not that way anymore.
08:52I didn't feel like I needed to be there, because I know Cody will talk to me about it.
09:05Mine and Mary's history is its own minefield. One misstep can be like a landmine going off.
09:11That's the reason I want to apologize, is I helped her create this world that is so toxic.
09:18Well, I still got the vibe that you're very sore.
09:27I'm very guarded because I don't know what this is all about or why. And our last couple of interactions haven't been great.
09:41No, they've been through lawyers.
09:43So, but you've got all of your share of Coyote Pass.
09:50Okay.
09:51You should be very happy.
09:56I kept my promise. But I don't want to go for water into the bridge. I just want to start, or however you see it, just end.
10:14I apologize, Mary. Apologize for everything that has happened. And I basically want you to be able to have a very happy and wonderful life.
10:31I do have a very happy and wonderful life.
10:35I'm glad you do.
10:41That's good. That's a good thing. And that makes me feel...
10:47You don't need to feel anything about it. If you do, that's great. But I don't need you to feel anything about any way that my life is going.
11:01Okay.
11:03I want you more than anything to just be able to move on.
11:09I do. I am. I have.
11:12The way your friends talk about me, that doesn't seem like it.
11:15The way...
11:16But I wanted you to be able to do that.
11:17Okay.
11:18You can stop right there.
11:21Listen, this isn't a time for us to fight.
11:24Well, then don't bring up my friends and what they say, because guess what? I'm going to tell you this, Cody.
11:31No, I'm going to tell you this.
11:33Because it'll just ruin...
11:34No.
11:35I'm just here to apologize, Mary, not to argue with you.
11:36No, I'm going to tell you this, Cody.
11:37Not to.
11:38I'm going to tell you.
11:39You're not going to shut me down anymore.
11:40My first mistake was ever saying that she did anything wrong.
11:47I don't need to win an argument, and I don't need validation here, and yet I'm triggering.
11:53And I'm like, dude, just stay on point.
11:57Just apologize again.
11:59You know, it's hard to hate a person who said, I'm sorry, a hundred times.
12:06At this point in the conversation, I thought, if this is how this is going to be, I'm not going to continue engaging in this.
12:15If it gets any more than this, I'm out. I'm going to walk away.
12:20You're in the basement, and you could hear everything upstairs.
12:31Yeah, Mary was upstairs, and I could hear everything.
12:37Apology is so needed here, because this is still so toxic.
12:43Do you apologize that you are toxic to me?
12:50I need to figure out what we've already spent with what's left in the budget.
13:05Yeah.
13:06So we can figure all of this out, because we've got a budget for it, but I'm going to be honest, I don't think I deducted the entire room.
13:11Yeah.
13:12So we have a full basement in our house.
13:15None of the walls are finished.
13:17It's just one big, huge area.
13:19There's, like, plumbing for a bathroom, and we have plans for our basement.
13:23So a bedroom here, because I think having a room down here would be great.
13:27We're going to have a bathroom, full bathroom.
13:30Yeah, full bathroom, shower.
13:31A bedroom for the kids, or whoever gets to come over.
13:34Mm-hmm.
13:35For guests.
13:36Now I have to be more creative.
13:37I can do it.
13:38Or for one of our moms.
13:40I don't know.
13:41I don't know what's going to happen.
13:42And then this could be at, like, its own apartment.
13:45I have to tell you, this was the craziest thing I was thinking about the other day.
13:50I used to be a basement wife.
13:53In polygamy, there's a term, basement wife.
13:57I'm having, like, anxiety about it.
13:59It's almost like...
14:00That sounds kind of cool.
14:02A basement wife, and I have an upstairs wife, and then main upstairs.
14:05No, no.
14:06What did you just say?
14:07How many wives are you having?
14:09I have a basement wife.
14:10No.
14:11I don't like this conversation.
14:12Basement wife in polygamy is, you know, in houses there's often a basement, and a wife
14:17sometimes has to live in the basement.
14:19But the mentality behind it is that you really are below another wife.
14:23When we moved into the Lehigh house, it was just my intention to be a team player.
14:27Like, there were three sections.
14:29There were three wives at the time.
14:30And, you know, Janelle had more kids.
14:32And there was only two bedrooms upstairs, maybe three bedrooms upstairs where Mary was.
14:36So it just worked to have me have that.
14:38It just worked.
14:39I was one.
14:40The last time we lived in Lehigh.
14:42And I really honestly felt like it.
14:44Did you do rock, paper, scissors to figure out who was going to be in the basement?
14:47No.
14:48No.
14:49True story, I volunteered.
14:50Wow.
14:51I know.
14:52I was so self-deprecating.
14:53You're in the basement, and you could hear everything upstairs.
14:55Yeah, Mary was upstairs.
14:56And Mary and Cody, they fall all the time.
14:57I'm just going to tell you that straight up.
14:59There are things you hear that you don't really want to hear.
15:03And I could hear everything.
15:08It's like I always knew where Mary was walking in the house.
15:10I knew what bedroom she was in, anything like that, just because it was super thin.
15:13The ceiling was super thin.
15:14So all the extra noises and things like that, yeah, I heard those too.
15:16There is this idea of a basement wife in a plural family, and it's really sad.
15:27It's unfortunate that it's a thing, but it kind of is a thing.
15:31I think in plural marriage, I think everybody takes a turn maybe being the basement wife.
15:35I don't know.
15:36Like, I was the basement wife plenty in the early years, you know.
15:40It was never, ever, ever condoned by our church for there ever to be hierarchy.
15:46So if it was happening, it was because people weren't being cool.
15:51You're not going to shut me down anymore.
16:06The cruel irony in Mary saying, I'm not going to let you shut me down anymore, is the weirdest thing, because all three, two exes and Robin, don't believe Mary has ever been silenced.
16:25Ever.
16:26This is something Cody's done the whole time I've known him, is just try to talk over me or try to stop me from saying something.
16:34I'm not going to let him do it anymore.
16:37I'm going to finish what I'm saying.
16:39And what I'm saying is, when I'm not treated well, the people closest to me will defend me.
16:46And that's what my friends do.
16:50Okay.
16:51So.
16:52I apologize for my feelings towards your friends.
16:58You don't have to apologize for that, Cody.
17:00You get, here's the thing, you get to have your feelings.
17:05You don't get to tell me them, though.
17:08No, I want to, no, it's not about my feelings.
17:10It's about, it's about an apology.
17:13Because, listen.
17:20Apology is so needed here.
17:23Because this is still so toxic, and I apologize for that.
17:28Do you apologize that you are toxic to me?
17:33Or are you just being general?
17:35Yes.
17:36I apologize that I am toxic to you, Mary, or was toxic to you.
17:46I mean, what do you want me to apologize for?
17:49I don't want you, I didn't know what this was about.
17:51I don't, but I don't feel like you need to apologize for.
17:55You're nothing but goodwill.
17:56OK, it, it's, I'm not getting that vibe.
18:01I'm not quite sure what I'm getting, and I'm very guarded by it.
18:04No, no, no.
18:05And I don't, I don't.
18:06Nothing, nothing but goodwill.
18:07I'm trying to understand if there's anything genuine here.
18:09Mary, I apologize.
18:10I am sorry, OK?
18:13Nothing but goodwill, OK?
18:16I want to let that, all that furniture float down the river.
18:21Dude, I didn't even bring this furniture with me.
18:26I'm trying to be funny.
18:28Metaphorically, I get what you're saying, though.
18:34I'm hella hilarious, and that's something you just don't get about me, so whatever.
18:39It's unfortunate.
18:41I'm sorry that I don't find you hilarious.
18:45I apologize for that, too.
18:46You don't need to apologize for not finding me funny.
18:49Yeah.
18:50The people who find me funny and are in my world and want to be in my world are there, and they get it.
18:56Hm.
19:01Cody, I said from the very beginning, sorry, from the beginning of the end.
19:07I know you did, Mary.
19:08That I wanted to be kind.
19:10Yeah.
19:12Yes.
19:13And I feel like I've done a really good job of that.
19:17I feel like...
19:18I'm glad you do, and I apologize that I didn't seem to...
19:21What's the...
19:22OK, you got to stop with the apologize word.
19:25The more you use it, the more it feels insincere.
19:27It triggers you?
19:28No, it doesn't trigger me.
19:29It just validates that it doesn't feel like this is a sincere conversation.
19:37This is a terrible start, and I have to surrender to this.
19:41I cannot react to anything here.
19:44I have to ignore every trigger that I have struggled with for years.
19:50I have...
19:51You know, somewhere along the line here, we got to turn over a new leaf.
19:55I'm still trying to figure out how genuine it is.
20:04I'm not convinced yet, but I'm open to seeing how it goes.
20:09I'm not trying to make us back together in any way, Mary.
20:13Oh, hell.
20:14But it was...
20:15That's never gonna happen.
20:16No, no, I...
20:17We're never getting back together.
20:18I...
20:19This might be the one shot I get.
20:36And it's like...
20:37And I...
20:38I made a wrong step.
20:39Right off the bat.
20:41And it's...
20:42It's almost like, okay, apologize.
20:45It's like, if she complains about anything I have done, if I didn't do it, I'm going to apologize.
20:51I apologize mostly that I said I didn't love you.
21:06I just think that was wrong of me to say that.
21:11I won't apologize for how toxic I was during our breakup.
21:16I apologize that I wasn't there for you when we were in Las Vegas.
21:22I apologize that your dark time I wasn't there.
21:27The dark time was because you weren't there.
21:31I apologize for that.
21:37I want to give him the space to do what he intended to do.
21:44I'm still trying to figure out how genuine it is.
21:48I'm not convinced yet.
21:51But I'm open to seeing how it goes.
21:55I just...
21:57It was such a crazy...
22:00I know.
22:01I'm not trying to make us back together in any way, Mary.
22:04Oh, hell.
22:05But it was...
22:06That's never gonna happen.
22:07No, no, I...
22:08We're never, ever, ever getting back together.
22:09I...
22:10I'm not...
22:11I'm not saying that.
22:12I...
22:13I don't...
22:14I don't know why you said that.
22:15I don't want my nostalgia to be mistaken.
22:18Oh, it's not.
22:19Okay.
22:21It's not.
22:22He...
22:23He just wants to make it clear.
22:25And I'm like, oh, it's clear.
22:27Oh, it's clear.
22:28It's clear on my part.
22:30I don't know how you feel.
22:31Like, are you trying to talk yourself into the fact that you still don't want me?
22:35Because I...
22:36I'm sorry.
22:37I don't.
22:38But I can tell you this.
22:40We will never, ever get back together.
22:43I've so moved on.
22:45I've so moved on.
22:47Your use of the word apologize feels very extreme and very forced to me.
22:54So I don't...
22:55I don't...
22:56I can't...
22:57I can't tell.
22:58Like, there's parts of this conversation, Cody, that I...
23:02I'm actually very uncomfortable, Mary.
23:04I triggered the minute we got together.
23:06I apologize for that.
23:07Oh, my God.
23:08Okay.
23:09Why?
23:10Because I walked into your space?
23:12Cody, I'm not a bad person.
23:14I will stand my boundaries, though.
23:16And I think that's very uncomfortable for you.
23:19Uh, no.
23:20I...
23:21This is an apology.
23:22It is nothing but goodwill.
23:24Is it?
23:25Nothing.
23:26Nothing but goodwill.
23:28Cody, I would love to have a conversation instead of just sit here and listen to you apologize.
23:33You and I can't talk because we will trigger each other no matter what.
23:38So I don't get to say anything or ask questions or...
23:41You can't feel...
23:43Yes, please feel free.
23:45But you just said I can't.
23:47Well...
23:48I mean, like...
23:50Listen, I'm not here to argue about something.
23:52I don't want to go picking the luggage out of the river.
23:55It's down the river.
23:56All of this.
23:57Our whole experience is.
23:58Okay.
23:59All right.
24:00I'll be fair.
24:02If there's something you want to discuss for the sake of closure...
24:06I don't need closure.
24:08Okay.
24:09I think...
24:10I think I have just...
24:12I...
24:13No.
24:14I'm...
24:15I'm...
24:16I don't need any closure.
24:17Okay.
24:18Closure's done.
24:20Okay.
24:21The more this conversation goes on, and the fact that he's saying, no, we can't have a conversation,
24:29it's...
24:30It's for him.
24:31It's for sure.
24:32Just all about him.
24:33Which is fine.
24:34If he needs this, he can have it.
24:37There's a point in my life where I had an attitude about a wife who threatened to leave.
24:46And I thought, well, I'm just gonna buy her that house down the street, let her live in it for free, pay the child support, and be as generous as I can to her so that I can have access to my children.
25:03That's what you always said you were gonna do.
25:08Always said that.
25:09And I'm ashamed that through the divorce processes and stuff like that, I...
25:15I forgot who I was.
25:17But my intentions had gotten really out of line with my soul.
25:24You know, before Robin even came in the family, he used to always say that.
25:35And so, over the past few years, when I haven't seen him behave in the way that he always said he was going to behave, it's been very disappointing.
25:51Mary was the legal wife, and so she'd have more opportunities to do things with Cody.
26:00So I felt like she was probably more important than I was.
26:03But I don't think that was on her.
26:05I really honestly don't.
26:06I would say it's more of the man's fault, because it shouldn't be one above the other wife.
26:12The last thing that I ever wanted was one wife being in charge of another wife.
26:19When you set out for a plural family, what you hope is that everybody is equal and all the wives have equal say.
26:34There are some families where it does not work out that way.
26:38Some families, there's one wife that's more important than all of the other wives.
26:43In our family, there were times where I felt like Mary was more in charge.
26:45Whose fault is that?
26:46All of our faults.
26:47I would say it's more of the man's fault, because if one wife says, hey, I'm the first and therefore I'm this way, he should focus on making it more equal to what goes on.
27:00It shouldn't be one above the other wife.
27:02As soon as I married Cody, he was like, there's a lot of things that Mary does that I really, really like.
27:09And I mean, if you want me to like them, then maybe you should do them like she does them kind of thing.
27:15He liked the way that she cleaned and cooked and dressed and all of these things.
27:20And Mary was the legal wife, and so she'd have more opportunities to do things with Cody because she was the legal wife.
27:25So I felt like she was probably more important than I was.
27:28But I don't think that was on her.
27:29I really honestly don't.
27:31And I think that Cody wasn't even meaning it to be completely honest.
27:35I don't think he was trying to.
27:36But I do think that it just happened.
27:40In our early years before Robin came in the family, it definitely felt like that Cody would rotate his attention or affection between me and Janelle and Christine.
27:52Like, and I knew, like, it was very obvious that, like, he was definitely rotating.
28:01It wasn't like there was one person who was his favorite for the whole time until Robin came in the family, right?
28:08It was like he rotated.
28:09He took turns.
28:10Even in the culture, the first wife gets a huge, massive wedding.
28:15The next ones are small.
28:16The next one.
28:17Yeah, we've been to a wedding there, and it's like going to a funeral.
28:20Yes.
28:21It is so weird.
28:22Plural weddings are, like, way too weird.
28:25I knew growing up that I would have to marry a convert because I was literally related to everybody in the church.
28:30Huh.
28:31I did marry a convert, but I was still related to him, too.
28:34What?
28:35Yeah.
28:36I'm related to Cody.
28:37That's not cool.
28:38Third cousins once removed is fully legal.
28:42Fully.
28:43Polygamy is not legal.
28:44But I'm third cousins once removed from Cody.
28:47Wow.
28:48Wow.
28:49I know.
28:50There was always this joke about they were cousins, but they are so distantly related.
28:53It's ridiculous.
28:54I think in the polygamist families, this kind of stuff happens all the time.
28:57It wasn't the kind of relationship where, like, you saw each other at a family reunion.
29:01Like, it was a very distant relationship, but they would always joke about being cousins.
29:05It just is a small community.
29:08Being a second wife, third wife, or fourth wife, you're never ever going to be equal to that first wife.
29:15But I'm not going to say all ones.
29:18It depends on what group it is, because down in Mexico, I've been to ones that haven't been that way.
29:24There are some families that work just fine.
29:27And even if a wife has a basement, she's not a basement wife.
29:30I want to make it clear that I never was trying to promote a pecking order.
29:37The last thing that I ever wanted in my life was one wife being in charge of another wife.
29:44No way, man.
29:46The problem was when I had everybody in the same home, they started to develop a pecking order.
29:52And I'm like, this is bull.
29:54I'm going to work.
29:55You guys work it out.
29:57I'm going to go make sure the mortgage is paid while you guys scrap it out here.
30:01Go to church so you learn to be charitable.
30:06I like it.
30:07Thanks, baby.
30:08I like all of your ideas.
30:09I'm excited.
30:10And you're no longer a basement wife.
30:12Oh, thank God.
30:16I do not like how this felt.
30:18Yeah, it's, it's, uh, there's some things I don't want to relive.
30:22You know?
30:23It might be one of them.
30:24Guess what, baby?
30:25What?
30:26I'm a home housewife now.
30:27Ooh.
30:28And you're my home man, baby.
30:30My home man?
30:31Sweet.
30:42Cody, I recognize, I recognize more in you than you think that I recognize.
30:48And I know you think I'm a bitch.
30:50And I know you think all my friends are bitches.
30:52And, uh, you can keep thinking that if you want.
30:54That doesn't matter.
30:55No, it matters to me.
30:57I mean, it doesn't matter because what you think of me and my friends doesn't matter.
31:01But my point is...
31:02Let me just...
31:03Mary, my opinion of your friends and my opinion of you is none of your business.
31:10And I'm not saying that to be rude.
31:13I'm saying that because it matters that you do not care.
31:18I don't care.
31:19And that's good.
31:21Mary, you and I will tit for tat the rest of our lives if we just don't let it go.
31:29I want to let it go.
31:32I want to let it go.
31:34I don't want to just...
31:35I've let it go.
31:36You just need to stop doing it.
31:38Just be the person, Cody, that you say that you are, that you want to be.
31:43And don't do that.
31:44It's not cool.
31:45Okay.
31:46Okay?
31:47If it is not my business, don't say it out loud for me to hear it.
31:50Okay?
31:51Okay.
31:52I have plenty of thoughts about you.
31:54I have plenty of opinions.
31:57I have plenty of conversations in my head about the way things have gone down.
32:01Mary.
32:02I don't want to argue with you.
32:03I'm not arguing.
32:04I'm just...
32:05I sat there and...
32:06But everything you say...
32:07I respected you.
32:08When you're not apologizing, when I'm apologizing, you don't have an argument.
32:11But now you're arguing.
32:13I'm not arguing.
32:15Okay.
32:16I'm wanting to say something and you shut me down.
32:19This is how it's been our whole lives.
32:20I don't want to pull that luggage back out of the river.
32:22Okay.
32:23You can keep talking about the luggage.
32:24That's just fine.
32:25It's just...
32:26All that stuff is in the past.
32:27Okay.
32:28But you got to say some stuff.
32:30I apologized is what I did, Mary.
32:33Your apology is welcome if you want to give one.
32:37But I'm apologizing...
32:38No.
32:39I'm just asking you, Cody, to keep your opinions about me and my friends to yourself.
32:45If it's not my business, please keep it to yourself.
32:47Okay?
32:48Please ask your friends to keep their opinions of me to themselves.
32:51Because they don't know me.
32:57They were around for many years and you know that.
33:00Not with me.
33:02Just with you.
33:04Nope.
33:05Not just with me.
33:06I failed here.
33:09Because I was not sticking to my guns of just being in a benevolent state.
33:15But I'm trying to run from the argument and yet I'm still stopping to gear up for the next blow.
33:23I'm...
33:24I'm...
33:25I'm...
33:26It feels like an impossible task.
33:29I am here today to get the release from Cody.
33:39I haven't been really affiliated with that church for 15 years.
33:44Yeah, I don't...
33:45It's kind of nerve-wracking to go in there.
33:46But here we go.
33:47I am here today because I'm going to go in and meet with our church leadership to get the
34:02release from Cody.
34:05I just don't know.
34:06I just don't know what to expect going in.
34:08I haven't been really affiliated with that church for 15 years.
34:12Yeah, I don't...
34:13I don't know.
34:14It's kind of...
34:15Kind of nerve-wracking to go in there.
34:16But here we go.
34:18For us, it really is just going before the leadership of the church and making kind of your request.
34:24I'm just going to explain that he and I don't live together anymore.
34:27And he's definitely said he wants to live with Robin.
34:31That he's totally in love with her or whatever.
34:34And I...
34:35And he's estranged from my children.
34:36And so I feel like...
34:37I feel like it's okay for me to be released.
34:39That's what I'm saying.
34:41Mary's situation was different than mine because Cody had...
34:44Cody and Mary had not lived together for a very long time.
34:47Years.
34:52For me, there isn't really anything like that.
34:55Cody and I's relationship was really functioning for...
34:58Until the last three or four years.
35:00Yeah, I just hope that's enough.
35:02I hope that's enough.
35:03We have a history.
35:16Cody.
35:17I mean, you piss the hell out of me more ways than we can even talk about.
35:25Yeah.
35:26And I know it goes both ways.
35:29But I also know that we're never going to see eye to eye on things.
35:34Because even though we were in the same space on our experiences, our experiences are so vastly different.
35:45Do I wish that I had never married you?
35:47Do I wish that we had never lived plural marriage?
35:51Do I wish that we had never moved out of any of our moves?
35:55Right?
35:56No, I can't.
35:57I can't.
35:58And I won't.
35:59And I don't wish that.
36:00Because all those moments made me who I am.
36:02High five.
36:03And gave me the family that I have.
36:04Right there.
36:05Right there.
36:06Which I still consider family.
36:07Right there.
36:08Right there.
36:09Okay?
36:10My point is I hope you don't...
36:11I hope you're at a place now that you can say that you don't regret it.
36:17Absolutely.
36:18Because you have so many kids, Cody.
36:23And I don't want...
36:24Let's not talk about the kids.
36:28That's verboten.
36:29That's what?
36:30Verboten.
36:31I don't know what these big words that you're using.
36:33Verboten.
36:34It means it's not allowed.
36:35Because it's a whole stream of bull and I don't want to talk about it.
36:40I'm working out my relationship with my children.
36:43Okay.
36:48I understand that everybody changes.
36:51There's no way I could ever expect me to be the same person I was 30 years ago.
36:56Or him to be the same person he was 30 years ago.
36:59But I would expect him to get better and be better.
37:04And I have not seen him be better in some of these ways that he's been handling the divorces.
37:13The property, his relationship with his children, I have not seen improvement there.
37:23And that makes me sad.
37:25It makes me really sad.
37:29This...
37:31I want you to feel like this is about you, but it's really about me and God.
37:35I can tell it's about you.
37:37No, it's about me and God.
37:39Oh, well, okay.
37:40Him too.
37:41That's great.
37:42But I can tell.
37:43Almighty requires.
37:44I don't need it to be about me.
37:51Thank you for an absolutely fascinating and wonderful life experience that we shared.
38:00It was.
38:01It was very fascinating.
38:04And there was definitely wonderful moments.
38:07Okay.
38:09I had this realization a while ago that I was trying so hard to understand him.
38:23And I finally came to this realization of, I don't have to.
38:29And I'm glad that I don't understand it.
38:32I'm happy that I understand me and what I'm doing in my life.
38:38And that's all that matters.
38:40I have to run the restroom really bad, so...
38:42Okay.
38:43Well, you better run off.
38:44I'm going to say goodbye.
38:45All right.
38:46Well, thank you.
38:47I appreciate it.
38:48Most people, I mean most, divorce and move on.
38:54I don't know what kind of relationship I have with my ex-wives.
38:59I've gone through three divorces while being married to one woman who was there standing to support me.
39:05And there's one woman in my life.
39:08And these three are ex-wives.
39:11At best, to only be friends.
39:15Thanks for meeting me.
39:16Now we can have a hug.
39:17You sure?
39:18Yes.
39:19Thank you, Mary.
39:20Thank you for the grace and the kind understanding.
39:24Well, thank you for the chat and the apologies.
39:29I appreciate it.
39:30You're welcome.
39:31I'm actually going to run.
39:33Because now that I stood up, I have to...
39:35I hope it doesn't leak.
39:37I'm not that old.
39:39I beg to differ.
39:41I know your birthday.
39:45Well, from now on, from here out, like I hope the swords are down.
39:50If we can move forward in the future, just making sure that we are very kind,
39:56we might be able to remain in good places with each other.
40:03I'm not sure at this point, you know, what this all means.
40:09There's been a lot throughout this whole divorce process,
40:13throughout the property process, things that I've discovered since then.
40:17But it doesn't affect me.
40:21I'm not listening to what he says and his opinions and his apologies and his thoughts and letting it affect me.
40:32I don't do that anymore.
40:40Next time on Sister Wives.
40:43I haven't been very fair with you.
40:45Taking accountability for his part gave him some peace.
40:51I love the family that we have.
40:54And I would do it all again.
40:56I don't regret anything in the last 30 years.
40:59Are you dating?
41:00I've dated.
41:02Dated around, you know.
41:06Ron and I definitely have a connection.
41:10This is beautiful.
41:11There's a reason why we're in each other's lives.
41:14What that reason is, you know, remains to be seen.
41:18I've always wanted to do this.
41:19This is going to be fun.
41:21Whoo!
41:22Oh.
41:24Oh.
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