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Short filmTranscript
00:00Ask her a couple of questions about the release process.
00:02I'm a little bit intimidated to go talk to those guys who I haven't talked to in forever.
00:07Like, I am a grown-ass woman, but Mary, I need you to make that first call for me so he doesn't like...
00:14They get to say whether or not she was forced to stay married to Cody forever.
00:20It is kind of intimidating, and it shouldn't be that way.
00:23I am following through with my plans for apology to my ex-wives.
00:28I feel conviction in what I am doing.
00:33Well, you've done two of them. How do you foresee it going with Mary?
00:37To be honest with you, I feel like Mary probably has more, potentially more bitterness.
00:44I love you, and I do my best to listen and not judge.
00:48But what the f*** are you thinking, saying,
00:50Okay, sure, I'm gonna go meet you in Cedar City.
00:54I'm very curious to know what this is all about.
00:59If she punches me, I'll say, I deserve that.
01:03And I will persevere until she hears me.
01:07I have a good feeling, and I hope you can help me out.
01:17Well, I've got my trouble.
01:19It's really like that.
01:20I give a gift and I may log into it in a moment.
01:24I don't know, but I cannot store it.
01:26Keep up theshortigans that take all of your time right away,
01:27so I feel like we should go.
01:28The first thing, like I said, to be honest with you too too.
01:29Have a good food.
01:31These are our resumes.
01:32I put a house right now.
01:33I need you.
01:34Have a good food.
01:35I'm in Cedar City, Utah, and I'm in a strange mood today.
01:45And I'm here to, honestly, I'm here to apologize.
01:50I am sort of surprised that Mary agreed to meet with me after everything.
01:56But, you know, as long as I don't talk bad about Jen, I think I'm going to be okay.
02:00I haven't spoken with Mary except through lawyers.
02:03Mary and I weren't talking because we made an agreement when she moved.
02:09I helped her move.
02:11She was in a good place.
02:13And when we depart, it's like, we're going to be kind to each other, right?
02:16Absolutely.
02:17And the next thing I see is her friends just trashing me.
02:21And so I got right in her face on the phone.
02:25But I was like, you need to have your friends shut their mouths.
02:29And I berated her friends.
02:31And I think she took that really, really personal.
02:39Mary and I have a lot of history.
02:42There is a tendency for us to escalate a conversation to not even be able to talk in seconds.
02:53It's explosive.
02:57We never managed that in our marriage.
03:00If we want any kind of relationship at all, we're going to have to manage it now.
03:04Are you putting them in the trash bag?
03:19Mom used to always gather them in a bucket.
03:21We have buckets.
03:22And dump it.
03:23You know, we always had a garden in one form or another the whole time the kids were growing up.
03:28Look at how big arashes are, Maddie.
03:30Look, they're gigantic.
03:31The bees are coming now.
03:33And it's much easier to garden in North Carolina than anywhere I've lived before.
03:39So I've got to go for a couple of days.
03:41I've got to go to Salt Lake.
03:43I'm going to meet with the church leadership about a spiritual divorce from your dad.
03:48A release?
03:50Yeah.
03:51Yeah.
03:51I have approached the church leadership and asked for a release, given my justification, given my reasons.
03:58And then I need to go meet with them.
04:00And then I think it's kind of just a decision process after that.
04:05My initial reaction is, what the f***?
04:08Why?
04:11I don't want her to go back to it.
04:12I think plural marriage in general is pretty toxic.
04:18Look, I'm not part of the faith anymore, but Maddie, it was what I honored as a marriage covenant.
04:23It was a marriage to me, as binding as a legal marriage.
04:27So I just want to have all ties broken.
04:31Just, so.
04:34What if they tell you no?
04:36Where do you stand if they tell you no?
04:39I will feel like I've done everything I needed to do, and I'll hold myself good.
04:44Divorced.
04:45If they say no, and I mean, I have to admit, it is a possibility, but I don't think so.
04:49But if they do, I don't think God intends for me to stay connected to this person who doesn't want to be married to me and has moved on with his life, and the same with me.
04:59Like, why would that need to be honored?
05:01But, of course, that would be a little bit more of a crisis of faith, so I'd have to figure it out when I get there.
05:06Does Cody know you're going to ask for one?
05:09Yeah, I told him.
05:10You told him?
05:11Mm-hmm.
05:11He didn't really care.
05:13He was like, well, they're going to tell you you can't marry outside of the faith or whatever, and I'm like, that's fine.
05:18I don't know what that means, and I don't really care.
05:20I'm going to marry who I want if I ever get married again.
05:22But, you know, it's okay.
05:23I can do what's, I can follow my conscience on how this is supposed to play out.
05:28Um, Janelle may have told me that she was going to ask for a release.
05:33I don't remember.
05:34It's just not something I'm tracking.
05:37One thing that is an issue that I know is that I'm not allowed to ask for one.
05:42So if an ex-wife calls me a coward for not going to the leaders and asking for a release, it's because I did.
05:49And they said, no, you can't ask for one.
05:52You know?
05:53It's like it could be a dogma of the religion.
05:55I have no idea.
06:00I am a little nervous to go talk to the church leadership.
06:02I don't know what I'm going to get.
06:03I don't know what I'm going to be, what I have to expect.
06:05So it's always a little bit of that unknown that gives you some butterflies.
06:10If they say no, it's going to be a huge struggle for me to reconcile what I know is right compared to what they say.
06:17And that will be, that will be hard.
06:22The whole situation with the property and the lawyers just made things, you know, pretty awkward.
06:47And so I'm like, how are we supposed to go into this conversation with the last time having no conversation?
06:56So I just don't know what to expect.
07:00Hey, Mary.
07:01How are you?
07:02I'm thriving.
07:05Thriving.
07:05Good.
07:06How are you?
07:07Hey, listen, nothing but goodwill here.
07:09Do you want a hug or you want a shake?
07:11I don't know, Cody.
07:16The last time I saw you, you completely ignored me.
07:20So I don't know.
07:21I'm sorry, Mary.
07:23I felt like you didn't even make eye contact.
07:26I only tried to make eye contact.
07:28Really?
07:29OK.
07:29Yeah.
07:29Well, then we'll start from that bad place and move up.
07:34OK.
07:35What do you think?
07:36OK.
07:37Tell me about thriving.
07:39No, life is good.
07:40I'm just doing all good things.
07:45Good.
07:46Life is good.
07:47How about you?
07:48Details?
07:48What are your good things?
07:50You know what?
07:53I appreciate that you are curious.
07:58I'm friendly.
07:59But we're not in, we haven't had that kind of relationship to tell you all my deep dark secrets.
08:06You know what I mean?
08:07Ooh, I'm not asking for those.
08:09I know.
08:11I'm just.
08:12This is more about friendly.
08:18And I appreciate that.
08:19I don't expect you to be my friend.
08:21Well, I've tried.
08:23And I've wanted that.
08:25We said that we were going to do that.
08:27I agreed to that.
08:29And I did that.
08:30And then that I did not feel that you did that.
08:32Well, I don't want to argue.
08:34OK.
08:34I'm here for a whole different reason.
08:36OK.
08:41Cody didn't talk a lot about his relationships to me.
08:44That was a private thing.
08:46Like, his relationship with each wife was private.
08:49But it's not that way anymore.
08:54I didn't feel like I needed to be there because I know Cody will talk to me about it.
09:05Mine and Mary's history is its own minefield.
09:08One misstep can be like a landmine going off.
09:11That's the reason I want to apologize, is I helped her create this world that is so toxic.
09:25Well, I still got the vibe that you're very sore.
09:27I'm very guarded because I don't know what this is all about or why.
09:37And our last couple of interactions haven't been great.
09:41No, they've been through lawyers.
09:45So, but you've got all of your share of coyote bass.
09:54OK.
09:55You should be very happy.
10:02I kept my promise.
10:05But I don't want to go for water into the bridge.
10:10I just want to start or however you see it, just end.
10:17I apologize, Mary.
10:21Apologize for everything that has happened.
10:23And I basically want you to be able to have a very happy and wonderful life.
10:34I do have a very happy and wonderful life.
10:39I'm glad you do.
10:41That's good.
10:43That's a good thing.
10:44You don't need to feel anything about it.
10:52If you do, that's great.
10:55But I don't need you to feel anything about any way that my life is going.
11:00I want you more than anything to just be able to move on.
11:09I do.
11:11I am.
11:11I have.
11:13The way your friends talk about me, that doesn't seem like it.
11:16But I wanted you to be able to do that.
11:18You can stop right there.
11:22Listen, this isn't a time for us to fight.
11:25Well, then don't bring up my friends and what they say.
11:28Because guess what?
11:29I'm going to tell you this, Cody.
11:33No, I'm going to tell you this.
11:34Because it'll just ruin.
11:35No.
11:35I'm just here to apologize, Mary.
11:37Not to argue with you.
11:37No, I'm going to tell you this, Cody.
11:38I'm going to tell you.
11:39You're not going to shut me down anymore.
11:44My first mistake was ever saying that she did anything wrong.
11:49I don't need to win an argument.
11:51And I don't need validation here.
11:52And yet, I'm triggering.
11:54And I'm like, dude, just stay on point.
11:58Just apologize again.
12:02You know, it's hard to hate a person who said, I'm sorry, a hundred times.
12:06At this point in the conversation, I thought, if this is how this is going to be, I'm not
12:14going to continue engaging in this.
12:16If it gets any more than this, I'm out.
12:19I'm going to walk away.
12:29You're in the basement, and you could hear everything upstairs.
12:32Yeah, Mary was upstairs, and I could hear everything.
12:36Apology is so needed here, because this is still so toxic.
12:44Do you apologize that you are toxic to me?
12:47I need to figure out what we've already spent with what's left in the budget.
13:05So we can figure all of this out, because we've got a budget for it.
13:09But I'm going to be honest, I don't think I deducted the entire room.
13:12So we have a full basement in our house.
13:16None of the walls are finished.
13:18It's just one big, huge area.
13:20There's like plumbing for a bathroom.
13:21And we have plans for our basement.
13:24So a bedroom here, because I think having a room done here would be great.
13:28We're going to have a bathroom, full bathroom.
13:31Yeah, full bathroom, shower.
13:31A bedroom for the kids, or whoever gets to come over.
13:34Mm-hmm.
13:36For guests.
13:36Now I have to be more creative.
13:37For guests.
13:38I can do it.
13:38Or for one of our moms.
13:41I don't know.
13:41I don't know what's going to happen.
13:43And then this can be like its own apartment.
13:46I have to tell you, this was the craziest thing I was thinking about the other day.
13:49I used to be a basement wife.
13:53In polygamy, there is a term, basement wife.
13:57I'm having like anxiety about it.
14:00It's almost like...
14:01That sounds kind of cool.
14:03A basement wife, and I have an upstairs wife, and then main upstairs.
14:06No, no.
14:06What did you just say?
14:07How many wives are you having?
14:09I have a basement wife.
14:11I don't like this conversation.
14:12Basement wife in polygamy is, you know, in houses there's often a basement.
14:17And a wife sometimes has to live in the basement.
14:20But the mentality behind it is that you really are below another wife.
14:24When we moved into the Lehigh house, it was just my intention to be a team player.
14:28Like, there were three sections.
14:29There were three wives at the time.
14:31And, you know, Janelle had more kids.
14:33And there was only two bedrooms upstairs, maybe three bedrooms upstairs where Mary was.
14:37So it just worked to have me have that.
14:39It just worked.
14:40I was one.
14:41The last time we lived in Lehigh.
14:43And I really honestly felt like it.
14:45Did you do rock, paper, scissors to figure out who's going to be?
14:47No, no.
14:48True story, I volunteered.
14:50Wow.
14:51I know.
14:51I was so self-deprecating.
14:53You're in the basement and you could hear everything upstairs.
14:56Yeah, Mary was upstairs.
14:56And Mary and Cody, they fought all the time.
14:58I'm just going to tell you that straight up.
14:59There are things you hear that you don't really want to hear.
15:03And I could hear everything.
15:08It's like I always knew where Mary was walking in the house.
15:10I knew what bedroom she was in, anything like that.
15:12Just because it was super thin.
15:13The ceiling was super thin.
15:14So all the extra noises and things like that.
15:16Yeah, I heard those too.
15:17There is this idea of a basement wife in a plural family, and it's really sad.
15:28It's unfortunate that it's a thing, but it kind of is a thing.
15:32I think in plural marriage, I think everybody takes a turn maybe being the basement wife.
15:36I don't know.
15:36Like, I was the basement wife plenty in the early years, you know.
15:42It was never, ever, ever condoned by our church for there ever to be hierarchy.
15:47So if it was happening, it was because people weren't being cool.
15:51You're not going to shut me down anymore.
16:06The cruel irony in Mary saying, I'm not going to let you shut me down anymore, is the weirdest thing, because all three, two exes and Robin, don't believe Mary has ever been silenced.
16:26This is something Cody's done the whole time I've known him, is just try to talk over me or try to stop me from saying something.
16:35I'm not going to let him do it anymore.
16:36I'm going to finish what I'm saying, and what I'm saying is, when I'm not treated well, the people closest to me will defend me, and that's what my friends do.
16:50Okay.
16:52So.
16:52I apologize for my feelings towards your friends.
16:59You don't have to apologize for that, Cody.
17:01You get, here's the thing, you get to have your feelings.
17:04You don't get to tell me them, though.
17:09No, I want to, no, it's not about my feelings.
17:11It's about, it's about an apology.
17:14Because, listen,
17:21Apology is so needed here,
17:24because this is still so toxic,
17:27and I apologize for that.
17:30Do you apologize that you are toxic to me?
17:34Or are you just being general?
17:36Yes, I apologize that I am toxic to you, Mary, or was toxic to you.
17:47I mean, what do you want me to apologize for?
17:49I don't want you, I didn't know what this was about.
17:52I, I don't, I, but I don't feel like you need to apologize for-
17:55Nothing but goodwill.
17:56Okay, it, it's, I'm not getting that vibe.
18:00I'm not quite sure what I'm getting, and I'm very guarded by it, and I don't, I don't, I don't, I'm trying to understand if there's anything genuine here.
18:07Mary, I apologize, I am sorry, okay, nothing but goodwill, okay, I want to let that, all that furniture float down the river.
18:20All that furniture float down the river.
18:22Dude, I didn't even bring this furniture with me.
18:25I'm trying to be funny.
18:28Metaphorically, I get what you're saying, though.
18:33I'm hella hilarious, and that's something you just don't get about me, so whatever.
18:39It's unfortunate.
18:41I'm sorry that I don't find you hilarious.
18:46I apologize for that.
18:47You don't need to apologize for not finding me funny.
18:50Yeah.
18:51The people who find me funny, and are in my world, and want to be in my world, are there, and they get it.
19:01Cody, I said from the very beginning, sorry, from the beginning of the end.
19:07I know you did, Mary.
19:09That I wanted to be kind.
19:11Yeah.
19:12Yes.
19:13And I've, I feel like I've done a really good job of that.
19:17I feel like.
19:18I'm glad you do, and I apologize that I didn't seem that you were kind.
19:21What's the, okay, you gotta stop with the apologize word.
19:25The more you use it, the more it feels insincere.
19:27It triggers you?
19:28No, it doesn't trigger me.
19:29It just, it just validates that it doesn't feel like this is a sincere conversation.
19:34This is a terrible start, and I have to surrender to this.
19:41I cannot react to anything here.
19:44I have to ignore every trigger that I have struggled with for years.
19:50I have, you know, somewhere along the line here, we gotta turn over a new leaf.
19:57I'm still trying to figure out how genuine it is.
20:04I'm not convinced yet, but I'm open to seeing how it goes.
20:09I'm not trying to make us back together in any way, Mary.
20:13Oh, hell.
20:14But it was.
20:15That's never gonna happen.
20:16No, no, I, well, I don't want you.
20:17We are never ever ever getting back together.
20:18I.
20:35This might be the one shot I get, and it's like, and I, I made a wrong step.
20:40Right off the bat, and it's, it's almost like, okay, apologize.
20:45It's like, if she complains about anything I have done, if I didn't do it, I'm going to apologize.
20:53I apologize mostly that I said I didn't love you.
21:08I just think that was wrong of me to say that.
21:11I want to apologize for how toxic I was during our breakup.
21:15I apologize that I wasn't there for you when we were in Las Vegas.
21:22I apologize that your dark time I wasn't there.
21:26The dark time was because you weren't there.
21:30I apologize for that.
21:33I want to give him the space to do what he intended to do.
21:45I'm still trying to figure out how genuine it is.
21:48I'm not convinced yet, but I'm open to seeing how it goes.
21:54I just, um, it was such a crazy, I, I know, I'm not trying to make us back together in any way, Mary.
22:04Oh, hell.
22:05But it was.
22:06That's never going to happen.
22:07No, no.
22:08We are never, ever, ever getting back together.
22:10I, I'm not, I'm not saying that.
22:13I, I don't.
22:14I don't know why you said that.
22:15I don't want my nostalgia to be mistaken.
22:19Oh, it's not.
22:20Okay.
22:22It's not.
22:23He, he just wants to make it clear.
22:25And I'm like, oh, it's clear.
22:27Oh, it's clear.
22:28It's clear on my part.
22:30I don't know how you feel.
22:31Like, are you trying to talk yourself into the fact that you still don't want me?
22:35Because I, I'm sorry.
22:37I don't.
22:38But I can tell you this.
22:40We will never, ever get back together.
22:43I'm so moved on.
22:45I'm so moved on.
22:47Your use of the word apologize feels very extreme and very forced to me.
22:55So I don't, I don't, I can't, I can't tell.
22:58Like, there's parts of this conversation, Cody, that I, that feels.
23:02I'm actually very uncomfortable, Mary.
23:04I triggered the minute we got together.
23:06I apologize for that.
23:08Why?
23:11Because I walked into your space?
23:13Cody, I'm not a bad person.
23:15I will stand my boundaries, though.
23:17And I think that's very uncomfortable for you.
23:20Uh, no.
23:21I, this is an apology.
23:23It is nothing but goodwill.
23:25Is it?
23:26Nothing.
23:27Nothing but goodwill.
23:29Cody, I would love to have a conversation instead of just sit here and listen to you apologize.
23:34You and I can't talk because we will trigger each other, no matter what.
23:39So I don't get to say anything or ask questions or.
23:42You can feel, yes, please feel free.
23:44But you just said I can't.
23:47Well, I mean like, listen, I'm not here to argue about something.
23:52I don't want to go picking the luggage out of the river.
23:55It's down the river, all of this, our whole experience is.
23:58Okay.
23:59All right.
24:00I'll be fair, if there's something you want to discuss for the sake of closure?
24:05I don't need closure.
24:07Okay.
24:08I, I think, I think I have just, I, no, I'm, I'm, I don't need any closure.
24:17Okay.
24:18Closure's done.
24:19Okay.
24:20The more this conversation goes on and the fact that he's saying, no, we can't have a conversation.
24:28It's, it's for him.
24:30It's for sure.
24:31Just all about him, which is fine.
24:34If he needs this, he can have it.
24:36There's a point in my life where I had an attitude about a wife who threatened to leave.
24:46And, and I thought, well, I'm just going to buy her that house down the street, let her
24:52live in it for free, pay the child support, and be as generous as I can to her so that
24:59I can have access to my children.
25:02That's what you always said you were going to do.
25:07Always had that.
25:10And I'm ashamed that through the divorce processes and stuff like that, I, I forgot who I was.
25:17But my intentions had gotten really out of line with my soul.
25:25You know, before Robin even came in the family, um, he used to always say that.
25:35And so, over the past few years, when I haven't seen him behave in the way that he always said
25:46he was going to behave, it's been very disappointing.
25:52Mary was the legal wife, and so she'd have more opportunities to do things with Cody.
26:01So I felt like she was probably more important than that than I was.
26:04But I don't think that was on her. I really honestly don't.
26:07I would say it's more of the man's fault, because it shouldn't be one above the other wife.
26:13The last thing that I ever wanted was one wife being in charge of another wife.
26:28When you set out for a plural family, what you hope is that everybody is equal,
26:32and all the wives have equal say, there are some families where it does not work out that way.
26:38Some families, there's one wife that's more important than all of the other wives.
26:43In our family, there were times where I felt like Mary was more in charge.
26:46Whose fault is that?
26:47All of our faults.
26:48I would say it's more of the man's fault.
26:51Because if one wife says, hey, I'm the first and therefore I'm this way,
26:56he should focus on making it more equal to what goes on.
27:01It shouldn't be one above the other wife.
27:03As soon as I married Cody, he was like, there's a lot of things that Mary does that I really, really like.
27:09And I mean, if you want me to like them, then maybe you should do them like she does them kind of thing.
27:16He liked the way that she cleaned, and cooked, and dressed, and all of these things.
27:20And Mary was the legal wife, and so she'd have more opportunities to do things with Cody,
27:24because she was the legal wife.
27:25So I felt like she was probably more important than I was.
27:28But I don't think that was on her. I really honestly don't.
27:31And I think that Cody wasn't even meaning it to be completely honest.
27:35I don't think he was trying to.
27:37But I do think that it just happened.
27:40In our early years, before Robin came in the family,
27:43it definitely felt like that Cody would rotate his attention or affection between me and Janelle and Christine.
27:52Like, and I knew. Like, it was very obvious that, like, he was definitely rotating.
28:01It wasn't like there was one person who was his favorite for the whole time until Robin came in the family, right?
28:08It was like he rotated. He took turns.
28:10Even in the culture, the first wife gets a huge, massive wedding. The next ones are small.
28:16The next one...
28:17Yeah, we've been to a wedding there, and it's like going to a funeral.
28:20Yes.
28:21It is so weird.
28:22Plural weddings are, like, way too weird.
28:25I knew growing up that I would have to marry a convert because I was literally related to everybody in the church.
28:31I did marry a convert, but I was still related to him, too.
28:35What?
28:36Yeah, I'm related to Cody.
28:37That's not cool.
28:38Third cousins once removed is fully legal. Fully. Polygamy is not legal.
28:44But I'm third cousins once removed from Cody.
28:47Wow. Wow.
28:49I know.
28:50There was always this joke about they were cousins, but they are so distantly related, it's ridiculous.
28:54I think in the polygamist families, this kind of stuff happens all the time.
28:57It wasn't the kind of relationship where, like, you saw each other at a family reunion.
29:01Like, it was a very distant relationship, but they would always joke about being cousins.
29:04It just is a small community.
29:07Being a second wife, third wife, or fourth wife, you're never ever going to be equal to that first wife.
29:15But I'm not going to say all ones, it depends on what group it is, because down in Mexico, I've been to ones that haven't been that way.
29:24There are some families that work just fine. And even if a wife has a basement, she's not a basement wife.
29:30I want to make it clear that I never was trying to promote a pecking order.
29:37The last thing that I ever wanted in my life was one wife being in charge of another wife.
29:44No way, man. The problem was when I had everybody in the same home, they started to develop a pecking order.
29:52And I'm like, this is bull. I'm going to work. You guys work it out.
29:57I'm going to go make sure the mortgage is paid while you guys scrap it out here.
30:01Go to church so you learn to be charitable.
30:04I like it. Thanks, baby. I like all of your ideas. I'm excited.
30:09And you're no longer a basement wife.
30:12Oh, thank God.
30:16I do not like how this felt.
30:18Yeah, it's, uh, there's some things I don't want to relive, you know?
30:23It might be one of them.
30:24Guess what, baby?
30:25What?
30:26I'm a home housewife now.
30:27Ooh.
30:28And you're my home man, baby.
30:30My home man?
30:31Sweet.
30:42Cody, I recognize, I recognize more in you than you think that I recognize.
30:49And I know you think I'm a bitch, and I know you think all my friends are bitches, and, uh, you can keep thinking that if you want.
30:54That doesn't matter.
30:55No, it matters to me.
30:57I mean, it doesn't matter because what you think of me and my friends doesn't matter.
31:01But my point is...
31:02Let me just...
31:03Mary, my opinion of your friends and my opinion of you is none of your business.
31:11And I'm not saying that to be rude.
31:13I'm saying that because it matters that you do not care.
31:18I don't care.
31:20And that's good.
31:22Mary, you and I will tit for tat the rest of our lives if we just don't let it go.
31:32I want to let it go.
31:34I don't want to just...
31:35I let it go.
31:36You just need to stop doing it.
31:38Just be the person, Cody, that you say that you are, that you want to be.
31:43And don't do that.
31:44It's not cool.
31:45Okay.
31:46Okay.
31:47Okay?
31:48If it is not my business, don't say it out loud for me to hear it.
31:51Okay?
31:52Okay.
31:53I have plenty of thoughts about you.
31:55I have plenty of opinions.
31:57I have plenty of conversations in my head about the way things have gone down.
32:01Mary...
32:02I don't want to argue with you.
32:03I'm not arguing.
32:04I'm just...
32:05I sat there...
32:06But everything you say...
32:07I respected you.
32:08Are you apologizing?
32:09When I'm apologizing, you don't have an argument.
32:12But now you're arguing.
32:14I'm not arguing.
32:16Okay.
32:17I'm wanting to say something and you shut me down.
32:19I just...
32:20This is how it's been our whole lives.
32:21I don't want to pull that luggage back out of the river.
32:23Okay, you can keep talking about the luggage.
32:25That's just fine.
32:26It's just all that stuff is in the past.
32:28Okay, but you got to say some stuff.
32:30I apologized is what I did, Mary.
32:33Your apology is welcome if you want to give one.
32:37But I'm apologizing...
32:38No, I'm just asking you, Cody, to keep your opinions about me and my friends to yourself.
32:45If it's not my business, please keep it to yourself.
32:47Please ask your friends to keep their opinions of me to themselves because they don't know me.
32:58They were around for many years and you know that.
33:01Not with me.
33:02Just with you.
33:04Nope, not just with me.
33:06I failed here because I was not sticking to my guns of just being in a benevolent state.
33:15But I'm trying to run from the argument and yet I'm still stopping to gear up for the next blow.
33:24It feels like an impossible task.
33:35I am here today to get the release from Cody.
33:40I just don't know.
33:41I just don't know.
33:42I just don't know what to expect going in.
33:43I haven't been really affiliated with that church for 15 years.
33:44Kind of nerve-wracking to go in there, but here we go.
33:48I am here today because I'm going to go in and meet with our church leadership to get the release from Cody.
34:05I just don't know.
34:06I just don't know.
34:07I just don't know what to expect going in.
34:09I haven't been really affiliated with that church for 15 years.
34:13Yeah, I don't know.
34:14It's kind of nerve-wracking to go in there, but here we go.
34:19For us, it really is just going before the leadership of the church and making kind of your request.
34:25I'm just going to explain that he and I don't live together anymore and he's definitely said he wants to live with Robin,
34:31that he's totally in love with her or whatever, and he's estranged from my children.
34:36And so I feel like it's okay for me to be released.
34:40That's what I'm saying.
34:41Mary's situation was different than mine because Cody and Mary had not lived together for a very long time.
34:48Years.
34:52For me, there isn't really anything like that.
34:55Cody and I's relationship was really functioning until the last three or four years.
35:01Yeah, I just hope that's enough.
35:03I hope that's enough.
35:06We have a history, Cody.
35:19I mean, you pissed the hell out of me more ways than we can even talk about.
35:26Yeah.
35:27And I know it goes both ways.
35:31But I also know that we're never going to see eye to eye on things
35:35because even though we were in the same space on our experiences, our experiences are so vastly different.
35:44Do I wish that I had never married you?
35:48Do I wish that we had never lived plural marriage?
35:51Do I wish that we had never moved out of any of our moves?
35:56Right? No, I can't.
35:57I can't. I can't. And I won't. And I don't wish that.
36:00Because all those moments made me who I am.
36:03High five. Right there.
36:04And gave me the family that I have.
36:05Right there.
36:06Which I still consider family.
36:08I'm with you there.
36:09My point is I hope you don't.
36:11I hope you're at a place now that you can say that you don't regret it.
36:18Absolutely.
36:19Because you have so many kids, Cody.
36:24And I don't want...
36:25Let's not talk about the kids.
36:28That's verboten.
36:30That's what?
36:31Verboten.
36:32I don't know what these big words that you're using.
36:34Verboten. It means it's not allowed.
36:36Because it's a whole stream of bull .
36:38And I don't want to talk about it.
36:40I'm working on my relationship with my children.
36:43Okay.
36:45I understand that everybody changes.
36:51There's no way I could ever expect me to be the same person I was 30 years ago.
36:56Or him to be the same person he was 30 years ago.
36:59But I would expect him to get better and be better.
37:04And I have not seen him be better in some of these ways that he's been handling the divorces.
37:13The property.
37:15His relationship with his children.
37:18I have not seen improvement there.
37:22And that makes me sad.
37:25It makes me really sad.
37:27This...
37:30I want you to feel like this is about you.
37:34But it's really about me and God.
37:36I can tell it's about you.
37:37No, it's about me and God.
37:39Oh, well, okay. Him too. That's great.
37:41But I can tell.
37:42I mean, almighty requires.
37:45I don't need it to be about me.
37:51Thank you for an absolutely fascinating and wonderful life experience that we shared.
37:59It was.
38:02It was very fascinating.
38:04And there was definitely wonderful moments.
38:11Okay.
38:13I had this realization a while ago that I was trying so hard to understand him.
38:23And I finally came to this realization of, I don't have to.
38:29And I'm glad that I don't understand it.
38:32I'm happy that I understand me and what I'm doing in my life.
38:38And that's all that matters.
38:40I have to run the restroom really bad, so...
38:43Okay, well, you better run off.
38:44I'm going to say goodbye.
38:45All right.
38:46Well, thank you.
38:47I appreciate it.
38:48Most people, I mean most, divorce and move on.
38:54I don't know what kind of relationship I have with my ex-wives.
39:00I've gone through three divorces while being married to one woman who was there standing to support me.
39:06And there's one woman in my life.
39:09And these three are ex-wives.
39:12At best, to only be friends.
39:16Thanks for meeting me.
39:17Now we can have a hug.
39:18You sure?
39:19Yes.
39:20Thank you, Mary.
39:21Thank you for the grace and the kind understanding.
39:26Well, thank you for the chat and the apologies.
39:30I appreciate it.
39:31You're welcome.
39:32I'm actually going to run, because now that I stood up, I have to...
39:35I hope it doesn't leak.
39:38I'm not that old.
39:40I beg to differ.
39:41I know your birthday.
39:46Well, from now on, from here out, like I hope the swords are down.
39:51If we can move forward in the future, just making sure that we are very kind,
39:56we might be able to remain in good places with each other.
39:59I'm not sure at this point, you know, what this all means.
40:09There's been a lot throughout this whole divorce process, throughout the property process, things that I've discovered since then.
40:17But it doesn't affect me.
40:20I'm not listening to what he says and his opinions and his apologies and his thoughts and letting it affect me.
40:28I don't do that anymore.
40:41Next time on Sister Wives.
40:43I haven't been very fair with you.
40:46Taking accountability for his part gave him some peace.
40:51I love the family that we have, and I would do it all again.
40:56I don't regret anything in the last 30 years.
40:59Are you dating?
41:00I've dated, dated around, you know.
41:06Ron and I definitely have a connection.
41:10This is beautiful.
41:11There's a reason why we're in each other's lives.
41:15What that reason is, you know, remains to be seen.
41:19I've always wanted to do this.
41:20This is going to be fun.
41:22Woo!
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