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CreativityTranscript
00:00:00Every human being has a hard-wired need to be in control of everything.
00:00:04There's three things in your control, Jay.
00:00:06What you think, what you do or don't do, and how you process your emotions.
00:00:10If you embrace this skill, you're going to be shocked.
00:00:13This is by far one of the best self-help books I've ever read.
00:00:18Your mind and soul are in for a treat.
00:00:21The queen of grounded, science-backed personal development, Mel Robbins.
00:00:27Work has been seen as the number one cause of stress.
00:00:32You have a customer that's really rude.
00:00:34You lose a big account.
00:00:35You get passed over for something.
00:00:37As you notice the stress come up, Jay, you're simply going to say, let them.
00:00:41If you focus and try to manage things that are never going to be within your control,
00:00:47it only creates stress, anxiety, and frustration for you.
00:00:51Imagine for every thought you had about that person, you had to pay them a dollar.
00:00:56That's how much energy, time, and money is being wasted.
00:00:59You have no idea right now how much time and energy is being wasted or drained
00:01:05because of other people's behavior or your expectations about how you wish things would go.
00:01:10This is, I think, my legacy.
00:01:13I think that this is the thing I was supposed to figure out and leave the world.
00:01:18If you're struggling right now with things you can't control, this episode is for you.
00:01:35If you're someone who's struggling at work and negative people and toxic culture, this episode's for you.
00:01:40If you're someone who's struggling with your family members and your friends and setting boundaries,
00:01:44this episode's for you, so Mel, where I want to start is work has been seen as the number one cause of stress.
00:01:52You write about this in the book, in people's lives.
00:01:55How can the let them theory help people in the place that causes them the most stress?
00:02:01It's an excellent question.
00:02:02So first, let me, no pun intended, let me explain the theory.
00:02:07So in case you haven't bumped into this online, the theory is very simple.
00:02:11It is a mindset tool that instantly helps you identify what's in your control and what's not in your control.
00:02:19The reason why this is important is because any psychologist will tell you that if you focus and try to manage things
00:02:27that are never going to be within your control, it only creates stress, anxiety, and frustration for you.
00:02:34When you take the context of work, there is so much inside your day-to-day life at work that is irritating,
00:02:42it is stressful, it is annoying, from the endless meetings and no time to get work done,
00:02:47to if you're somebody that is working in a retail store, you're doing shift work,
00:02:51you don't have control over what shifts you get, to feeling like you don't have the chance for promotion.
00:02:57It is just endless.
00:02:58And the way that you're going to use the let them theory is anytime something is happening at work that stresses you out,
00:03:05you have a customer that's really rude, you lose a big account, you get passed over for something,
00:03:09your idea gets dismissed in a work meeting.
00:03:12As you notice the stress come up, Jay, you're simply going to say, let them.
00:03:17Let my boss be in a bad mood.
00:03:19Let my colleague take credit.
00:03:20Let the customer, like, be rude to me.
00:03:24And here's the thing.
00:03:25This sounds almost like you're being a doormat and you're being passive.
00:03:28It's the exact opposite.
00:03:29When you say let them, you're recognizing that the situation right now that has just happened has already happened
00:03:38and that there is no reason to allow it to stress you out.
00:03:43When you allow your boss's mood to stress you out or make you nervous,
00:03:46you're giving power to your boss that they do not deserve.
00:03:51And so you're going to say, let them.
00:03:53When you allow a customer that is rude or inconsiderate to make you feel bad about yourself or to make you upset or to rattle you,
00:04:02you just gave this rude person power over you.
00:04:05When you say, let them, something interesting happens.
00:04:09First of all, you detach.
00:04:11Second, you feel almost superior.
00:04:14It's this weird thing because I don't think this is the same thing as saying, let it go.
00:04:18You're a very grounded person, Jay.
00:04:21You strike me as the kind of person that can let anything go.
00:04:25Me, whenever somebody would say to me, Mel, I know, I know, it's not fair what just happened at work.
00:04:30You got to let it go.
00:04:31I'd be like, but I feel like I lost.
00:04:33I feel like I now have to be defeated.
00:04:36I feel more like a doormat if somebody tells me to let something go.
00:04:39What's the difference between let it go and let them?
00:04:43For me, when I say let them, I get a jolt of superiority because I'm like, I can see that my boss is kind of a jerk and I'm just going to let them be a jerk.
00:04:51And I rise above it and I feel a little judgy.
00:04:54I mean, if I'm being perfectly honest, I mean, this is why people get this tattooed on their bodies.
00:04:58Because when you say the word let them or you see it on your arm, what happens is you no longer allowed a rude colleague or something frustrating at work to derail your day.
00:05:09You say let them and you rise above it and you kind of go, I see what's happening here.
00:05:14I'm going to allow this without allowing it.
00:05:17But then there's a second part, Jay, and this is the most important part.
00:05:21And it's the part that people do not tattoo on themselves because it's the harder part.
00:05:27And the second part to this theory is saying to yourself, let me.
00:05:30Let me remind myself that in life there are always three things I can control.
00:05:35That's where my power is.
00:05:35My power is not in managing my boss or in trying to, like, deal with some customer that just doesn't want to be in an okay mood and doesn't want to be calmed down.
00:05:49They want to be right.
00:05:50They want to take it out on you.
00:05:51So you're going to let them.
00:05:52But then you've created this boundary, you rise above, I'm going to just let you be upset here, I'm not going to let it impact me.
00:05:58And then you say, let me.
00:06:00And what you're reminding yourself of is there's three things in your control, Jay.
00:06:03What you think, next.
00:06:04What you do or don't do, and oftentimes not doing something is the more powerful mood.
00:06:11And how you process your emotions.
00:06:15Those are the three things that are always in your control.
00:06:17And when you say, let me take responsibility right now for how I'm going to respond to this.
00:06:24And the word responsibility, after all, is the ability to respond, right?
00:06:27And so when you say, let me, and you remember, I can think what I want about this, I can act in response to this, and I can process my emotions and either allow them to rise and fall and stay steady and calm, or, you know, you can certainly erupt if you want to.
00:06:46But why would you want to?
00:06:47Because then that means you've given power to somebody else.
00:06:50Why are we so distracted and obsessed with things we can't control?
00:06:57I'm sure we all have a friend or know someone who knows they need to be working on their business, but they're talking about the news.
00:07:05They know they should be writing their book, but they're focused on talking about politics.
00:07:09They know they should be building the next stage in their career or whatever it may be, trying to get that promotion, work towards that next threshold or whatever they're trying to achieve.
00:07:19But they're distracted by talking about all the people, all the things, all the ideas that they can do nothing about.
00:07:26Why are we so addicted to it?
00:07:28Well, I think there's two reasons because your question is about two different things.
00:07:32One is, why are we focused on things we can't control?
00:07:35And the other one is sort of like, why are we distracted?
00:07:37And they're interconnected.
00:07:39So let's just address the issue of control.
00:07:43Every human being has a hardwired need to be in control of everything.
00:07:48Because being in control is what makes you feel safe.
00:07:51So I need to feel in control of my thoughts, my decisions, my environment, my future.
00:07:58And the problem is, so do you.
00:08:00But part of the need for control, Jay, extends beyond me.
00:08:05Because if you're doing something that makes me annoyed or irritated or worried about you, now I'm feeling a little unsafe or worried because of what you're doing.
00:08:15And so now I'm going to want to control you so that I feel better.
00:08:19And so it is a fundamental hardwired need inside every human being you know to be in control of yourself.
00:08:28And yet, the second we step across the line and we try to control someone else, whether it's, I think you should be healthier, I think you should be more motivated, I wish you wouldn't, like, leave the Kleenexes when you're blowing your nose on the camera, whatever it is that you wish someone else would do.
00:08:43I wish my boss wouldn't talk in every meeting and would give a chance, like, for us to talk.
00:08:48All of that desire for someone else to change is you attempting to control the uncontrollable.
00:08:54And so I think one of the reasons why we do this is because we're hardwired to do it.
00:08:59And the problem becomes that the second I try to control you, Jay, it's not going to motivate you to do what I want you to do.
00:09:06It's going to bump up against your need for your own control, so you're going to push back against me.
00:09:11Absolutely.
00:09:12And so you also asked about distraction.
00:09:14I think the reason why we're so distracted is because if you spend so much time and energy allowing the world around you to stress you out and drain your energy, you are now susceptible to being hijacked by meaningless things that are not important to you.
00:09:31And this is one of the biggest discoveries that I've made about using the let them theory and researching it has spread around the world is that the single biggest benefit is that you get time and energy back.
00:09:42You have no idea right now how much time and energy is being wasted or drained because of other people's behavior or your expectations about how you wish things would go.
00:09:53And once you start noticing all of these little moments all day long, it's like a death by a thousand cuts.
00:10:00You want to know why you're too tired?
00:10:01You want to know why you're overwhelmed?
00:10:02You want to know why you're stressed out?
00:10:03You want to know why you have no time for yourself?
00:10:05It's because of the power you give to other people's opinions, their emotions, their immature behavior.
00:10:11It's the ways in which you are turning people into a problem in your life.
00:10:16And here's the sad fact.
00:10:17The sad fact is other people should be the greatest source of happiness and connection and inspiration.
00:10:26But if you don't truly learn this skill that we're going to talk about today of focusing on what you can control and letting people be who they are, letting things play out as they're playing out, and then bringing the power back in-house and really focusing on how you responded.
00:10:48If you embrace this skill, you're going to be shocked.
00:10:51You're going to be shocked by how much time you've wasted.
00:10:54I'm not kidding.
00:10:55And you're going to be shocked, Jay, by the fact that you've allowed stupid things and people's drama to drain you.
00:11:06And that's why I also think we're so susceptible to distraction, because we've given so much power away all day long.
00:11:14Because here's the truth.
00:11:15I'll give you an example.
00:11:16But when I first discovered this and I started playing around with it, the very first way that I used it after I discovered it was I was standing in line.
00:11:23And we've all been at the grocery store when it's like six people deep and there's one person working.
00:11:29Yeah.
00:11:29And it's like beep, beep, beep.
00:11:31And you start feeling that wave, right?
00:11:34And immediately the wave of stress takes over because you're now irritated by what's happening.
00:11:40And what just happens when you start reacting to that and you allow that stress wave to start to take over is that you're giving power to something outside of you.
00:11:52Now, I can't control what's happening right now.
00:11:56So why on earth would I allow it to drain my energy?
00:12:00Because as it comes up, Jay, what do I then do?
00:12:03I then start talking to myself.
00:12:04Well, this is ridiculous.
00:12:05Why have they not done an announcement?
00:12:07Like, I got to get going here.
00:12:09Why are they not bringing another?
00:12:11Now I'm starting to believe, Jay, that I can run a supermarket better than the people that are running it.
00:12:15And then you, of course, turn to the person behind you and you're like, can you believe this?
00:12:19And now this is the interesting part that I really want everybody, I really want the person listening to embrace.
00:12:29In that moment, you just gave away your energy and you have a choice.
00:12:36When you say let them, you instantly feel a release.
00:12:42And then you say, let me decide what I'm going to do right now.
00:12:46Am I going to leave?
00:12:47I can leave the store.
00:12:49That's one thing I can do.
00:12:50I could stand here and practice being present.
00:12:53That's another thing I could do.
00:12:55I could, because I don't have time at the end of the day and I'm always tired and I'm complaining that I'm lonely, I could actually pick up the phone and call my grandmother.
00:13:02I could text my friend Jay Shetty because I've been thinking about him.
00:13:05Like you have so much power, but you're going to burn through it in that line and then you're going to feel your stress activated and then you're going to get in the car and then somebody's going to pull out in front of you and then you're going to like be stressed again and then you're going to walk into work and you're going to be annoyed in some meeting because of what something somebody said and then that's going to hit you again.
00:13:26And all day long, because you don't recognize how this stuff is impacting you, that energy inside your body is slowly draining.
00:13:36And this is why you're exhausted.
00:13:38And so simply starting to use it, whether it's at work or it's just in your daily life, to say, let them.
00:13:45Wanting people to change is not the problem.
00:13:48How we go about it is.
00:13:50If their behavior is telling you that your needs are not a priority, you have to let them reveal that.
00:13:57You're only attached to it because you've never experienced anything else.
00:14:03I want to paint another scenario for people to really understand the system.
00:14:06Let's say you have a partner, boyfriend, girlfriend, maybe you're married to them.
00:14:10Yeah.
00:14:10And this person always turns up from work a little bit late.
00:14:15They don't wash the dishes.
00:14:17You wake up in the morning.
00:14:18The dishes are always still out there.
00:14:20There's a sense that you've told them this irks you a million times.
00:14:24Did my husband ask you to ask me this question, Jay?
00:14:29He's amazing.
00:14:30Chris has your number, so I probably texted you.
00:14:33Yeah, and so, I mean, I'm speaking from so much, not direct personal experience, but personal experience in so many ways.
00:14:40And you're saying this person's not changing.
00:14:44They haven't changed for like, it's been two, three years.
00:14:45No, because this is a fundamental role, everybody.
00:14:47Number one, you cannot change another human being.
00:14:49It is impossible for you to change somebody else.
00:14:51Now, you can influence them, but you cannot change them.
00:14:56People only change if they feel like it and if they can.
00:14:59And wanting and wishing is a wonderful thing.
00:15:04Wanting and wishing somebody to be cleaner and to pick up after themselves.
00:15:07Wanting your kids to be more motivated.
00:15:10Wanting the people that you love to take better care of themselves and to be healthier or to date somebody that is normal and healthy instead of the losers that treat them like crap.
00:15:18That's a beautiful thing for you to want for other people.
00:15:23And you deserve to do that and you should do that.
00:15:25Wanting people to change is not the problem.
00:15:28Wanting bigger possibilities for people is not the problem.
00:15:31How we go about it is.
00:15:33And so in the scenario that you're talking about, this is a beautiful example because you have to say, let them.
00:15:41You see the dishes in the sink.
00:15:43It makes you upset because you feel disrespected and that's annoying and you have higher standards for cleanliness, which means you're probably just going to do them anyway.
00:15:51And then you're going to feel like you're really taking whatever for granted.
00:15:54But you have to say, let them.
00:15:57And one of the reasons why is because, number one, if this is a long-term committed partnership, learning how to love somebody as they are is a form of love that is deeply important.
00:16:11And if you can't say, let them, in that moment, you are going to get frustrated and angry and then you are going to come to the next part of the let them theory with tremendous intensity and judgment.
00:16:27And that's not going to motivate change.
00:16:29What it does when you judge somebody or you push against them is it actually creates resistance to change.
00:16:36So you have to say, let them, because it allows you to detach from your emotions and detach from judgment, right?
00:16:43It is what it is.
00:16:45I see what's happened.
00:16:46I'm accepting the reality of this.
00:16:47Let them.
00:16:48Then you come to the let me part.
00:16:50Is this something that bothers you?
00:16:52And if it is, remember, you got three things.
00:16:56I can choose what I want to think about this.
00:16:57And so you could think a good thought.
00:16:59You could think, okay, good intention.
00:17:01They were probably super busy this morning and they meant to do it later.
00:17:04Let them.
00:17:05Okay?
00:17:05I'm going to choose to believe that.
00:17:07You could also then remind yourself, let me remind myself, there's something I can do about this.
00:17:12Right?
00:17:12And if it's really important, what you need to do about this is have a conversation.
00:17:16And by the way, Chris has had this conversation with me a bazillion times.
00:17:20So if you walk into our bathroom, Chris's bathroom probably looks like your side of the sink,
00:17:25which is it's like a Zen seven-star hotel, Jay.
00:17:28Like there's not a speck on that man's like basin or whatever you call it.
00:17:33If you look at mine, it looks like somebody tipped over a Walgreens aisle on top of that thing.
00:17:40And it drives Chris crazy.
00:17:42But what particularly drives him crazy is when something migrates from my side to his side.
00:17:46Right?
00:17:46And so he's asked me, he's asked me to please keep my stuff over there.
00:17:49He has asked me to please flatten cardboard boxes when they come in.
00:17:52Don't please pack, don't unpack them and then stack them by the garage door as if I'm supposed to do it.
00:17:58And he's asked me and asked me and asked me.
00:17:59And then I forget.
00:18:01Well, he finally sat me down, Jay.
00:18:03And this is the let me part.
00:18:04You have to take responsibility for explaining to somebody what you need and the reason why this is important to you.
00:18:12Because when Chris said to me, I know you don't intend this, but this is the impact, Mel.
00:18:18When I see the cardboard boxes stacked or I see your hairbrush and 15 products of yours on my countertop,
00:18:26it actually makes me feel like you think I'm the maid.
00:18:31And we don't even have a maid.
00:18:33Like, it's just like, it makes me feel like you think it's my job to clean up after you.
00:18:40And that doesn't make me feel loved.
00:18:43Now, when he took the time in a very calm way to drop into his values and communicate what he needed,
00:18:50something interesting happens.
00:18:51If you're in a committed, loving partnership and you're with somebody who wants to do better and cares about you,
00:18:57it taps into their intrinsic motivation to build new skills.
00:19:04If you have that kind of conversation with somebody and you explain how their behavior impacts you,
00:19:10whether it's their drinking or it's the tone of their voice or it's the fact that they leave their stuff everywhere
00:19:16or it's that they insist that you spend every holiday with their family and they have no interest in your,
00:19:21whatever the issue is, if you sit somebody down and you take responsibility, you've let them be,
00:19:26and you've let them shown you who they are, and then you say, let me sit down and talk about this and take responsibility.
00:19:32I have the ability to respond to this like a mature adult.
00:19:35And you actually express what you need and why, and that person doesn't try.
00:19:40You have to let them, and here's why.
00:19:43Their behavior is telling you the truth.
00:19:47Their behavior is telling you what they care about and what their priorities are.
00:19:53And if their behavior is telling you that your needs are not a priority, you have to let them reveal that.
00:20:01That's also what let them mean.
00:20:02Yes, because then you're going to come back to the second part, which is, let me ask myself,
00:20:09is this kind of behavior from somebody what I deserve?
00:20:17Is this what I'm willing to accept in somebody?
00:20:21Because again, what do we also know?
00:20:22People only change when they want to or they can.
00:20:24And you might be in a situation where somebody would really love to change, but they can't
00:20:32because they're dealing with some challenge right now or they don't have the skill yet.
00:20:39And you may decide if that's the case to still love and accept the person, right?
00:20:45But there may be times where you have had the conversation and it is very clear they're capable of it.
00:20:52They just won't do it.
00:20:53And what I find in relationships where that sort of invisible distance and the frustration and the resentment comes up is twofold.
00:21:01Number one, you can't detach from your emotions and say, let them, and really fully just let the person be who they are.
00:21:10And you don't do the part, let me, where you actually take responsibility for expressing in a mature way what you need and how their behavior impacts you.
00:21:18And so if you don't ever express what you need and how it's impacting you, you're not actually giving somebody the opportunity to build a skill or to change or to love you the way that you need them to love you so that you feel loved.
00:21:30The second mistake that I see constantly is that you make the ask and then the person doesn't do it.
00:21:39And then you start making excuses and resentment builds and you stay in something, seeing exactly who someone is, wishing they would change, living up here in your mind about the fantasy of what you wish this was, refusing to accept the reality of what it actually is.
00:21:58You've just unlocked a whole new meaning of let them for me.
00:22:03How so?
00:22:03I've always understood let them, when I've heard you speak about it, when I read the book, this idea of let them be who they are.
00:22:09Let them act the way they want to act.
00:22:11Let them say and do whatever they want to do.
00:22:14I have to let them.
00:22:14I have to keep that distance.
00:22:16What you just unlocked for me, which I really want everyone to grapple with because I think it's so powerful, is this idea of let them also show you who they are.
00:22:26Yes.
00:22:26And if they're showing you who they are, let them be that person.
00:22:31Don't make them the person you imagine them to be, the one you want them to be, the one that you're wishing and waiting and hoping for them to be.
00:22:38Yes.
00:22:38They are that person.
00:22:39Yes.
00:22:40Let them be.
00:22:40That is, oh my gosh, my mind is literally blown because that is so powerful.
00:22:45But you still have power, Jay.
00:22:46Yes.
00:22:46Here's the most important thing, everybody.
00:22:48This is the most important thing.
00:22:50This is the epiphany that I had, too.
00:22:52Like, holy cow.
00:22:54I still get to choose.
00:22:56I still get to choose.
00:22:59I get to choose how much time and energy I pour into this, whether it's this issue or it's this topic or it's this person.
00:23:06And here's how you know if you can actually love somebody for who they are and who they're not.
00:23:15Can you end your complaining and bitching about it?
00:23:19Because if you can't do that, then this is something you're holding on to and you're holding over the other person.
00:23:25And if they're never going to change, you're going to have a problem.
00:23:28Because the only thing that's going to make the relationship better is either them hearing you and caring enough and being able to adjust or you being the one to adjust because it's your complaining about it that is creating the friction and the resentment.
00:23:46And this is not only with romantic relationships.
00:23:49Like, when I think about the broader applications of this for family, there are very challenging people in my extended family, just like everybody's family, right?
00:23:59And so there's always one person in your life that you wish there just wasn't drama with.
00:24:04You wish they didn't have a challenging demeanor or personality.
00:24:08The let them theory has fundamentally, profoundly changed my relationship also with people that have been difficult.
00:24:17Because when I say let them, like, let's say you're talking, we're talking about somebody who's very narcissistic or dramatic or victim or they're all, it's always about them and very draining person to be around.
00:24:27Well, part of the reason why they're draining is because you brace and you get ready for it and you allow their energy to impact you.
00:24:37And I always find it funny, Jay, that especially in families and at work, we allow the most challenging person to have the biggest impact on the whole system.
00:24:48So if you have one person that's narcissistic in their personality style or that is very, very dramatic and immature in their personality style, they're the one, if you imagine a spider web, right?
00:25:00I think about a system of relationships like a spider web and you're out in the morning, the do's on it.
00:25:05When you have a challenging person, because we all tiptoe around this person, that person's energy is like tap, tap, tap and shakes all the do off.
00:25:12I believe the opposite is true, especially after learning the let them theory, because there's been people in my life, both in work life and in my family life, where when that person's around, I literally shrink to eight years old.
00:25:25I'm dancing around their mood.
00:25:28We all have had an experience like this.
00:25:30Maybe you're thinking about a boss or your mother or your father-in-law or a brother or whomever, an adult child, right?
00:25:35When I walk into these situations now and I say, let them, let them be who they are.
00:25:45Why am I making it my job to manage their mood?
00:25:48Why am I pouring time and energy into this drama?
00:25:54Let me manage my energy.
00:25:56Let me remind myself.
00:25:58I can remove myself from any dinner table, any family text chain.
00:26:01I can remove myself from an interview, a date, a conversation, a relationship, anytime I want.
00:26:07And I believe, Jay, that the person that is the most peaceful and centered and powerful, because you understand the power of your energy and your thoughts and your actions, you actually have more power in any family system and any office building, in any room, anywhere, than the most challenging person.
00:26:28I couldn't agree more.
00:26:30I couldn't agree more.
00:26:31I love that.
00:26:31And I feel like when you start looking at your energy and time, if you thought about it like money, and this idea that imagine for every thought you had about that person, you had to pay them a dollar.
00:26:44And you think about how many dollars, if you now started to count the amount of thoughts you're having about that person, about that situation, about what they said, about what they said to so-and-so, what they thought about you, and you had to pay a dollar for every thought you had about them, that's how much energy, time, and money is being wasted.
00:27:01Yes.
00:27:01And we're not realizing where else it could be invested and put in.
00:27:05But I think you hit the nail on the head there.
00:27:07The reason is, we feel so attached that we don't feel we can actually leave.
00:27:15As Thich Nhat Hanh would say, we would rather live in the familiar pain than the unfamiliar pain.
00:27:22At least we know what we're going to get with this person.
00:27:25And there's a part of us that gets attached to that, even subconsciously.
00:27:29Well, here's the thing, though, Jay.
00:27:30Because I think it's a really important point that you're bringing up, but here's what I think you're going to discover.
00:27:37I think you're only attached to it because you don't value your time and energy.
00:27:46For sure.
00:27:46You're only attached to it because you've never experienced anything else.
00:27:51And the reason why you're used to it is because in the relationship dynamic, you're up in your head, usually in a relationship explaining away behavior instead of actually seeing it with clear eyes and detaching from it.
00:28:11And that's the other reason, and I know you knew this instantly, that the let them theory and saying let them and let me.
00:28:17One of the reasons why it's so powerful and I'm so excited is I feel literally like I'm surrounded by ancestors.
00:28:23Because this is a modern application of ancient philosophy, spiritual guidance, stoicism, detachment theory that you can then apply in any moment in any relationship.
00:28:38And what I also love about this, Jay, is that I think it allows you to truly see people perhaps for the first time.
00:28:50And to give them the space to be who they are.
00:28:55And from that space, what's amazing is you can let people, for example, a lot of us are very triggered and motivated when somebody's disappointed.
00:29:07Or we think that somebody's going to really be let down by us.
00:29:11And I had this huge breakthrough because I used to feel really guilty, either by how much I work or the fact that Chris and I raised our kids on the East Coast and my parents are in the Midwest.
00:29:22And, you know, I love my parents and I wish we all lived together.
00:29:25But here's the thing, they're not moving to me and I'm not moving to them.
00:29:27We got to let them, right?
00:29:29But there's a lot of emotion about it.
00:29:31And I know your family's all over the place, too.
00:29:33So, you know, you're nodding like, I'm not saying anything because my family listens to this, Mel.
00:29:37So here's the thing.
00:29:39If I don't go home with my family for the holidays, my parents are disappointed.
00:29:46Let them be disappointed.
00:29:50I mean, isn't that a beautiful thing?
00:29:52That they're disappointed?
00:29:55Don't you want somebody to be disappointed that you're not coming?
00:30:00That really messes with people's minds.
00:30:02Right?
00:30:03Yeah.
00:30:03Like whether you can't make it to a business engagement or you can't make it to a birthday party.
00:30:09Or you can't make it this year home.
00:30:14I mean, what's the alternative?
00:30:15That they're like, thank God Jay's not coming.
00:30:16I can't stand him.
00:30:18No, seriously.
00:30:19Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:30:19Like really wrap your brain around this.
00:30:21And so when you say, let them be disappointed, something beautiful happens.
00:30:26You actually honor their experience of being human.
00:30:29You allow them to be adults.
00:30:30Yes.
00:30:31That is a sign, that emotion, that things are really good in your relationship.
00:30:36Yes.
00:30:37But then you say, let me.
00:30:39And the old me would twist myself in knots and then I would make myself feel bad and then
00:30:44I would question what I was doing and then I'd bend over backwards and try to be there
00:30:47and try to be here.
00:30:48And instead, when I say, let me, I drop into my values.
00:30:51I deeply value family.
00:30:52And so if they're disappointed, that's not the reason I would change plans.
00:30:58I have to look at what do I think, what do I want to do, and how am I going to process
00:31:03my emotions?
00:31:04And so as someone else is disappointed, the old me would feel deeply guilty and conflicted.
00:31:10Now with the let them theory, I have space for them to be disappointed and for me to feel
00:31:16a little sad.
00:31:16But if I change plans, I don't do it for them because if I change plans for them, guess what
00:31:23I just did?
00:31:23I made them the villain in my life.
00:31:25If I change plans because it makes me feel like a good daughter, it makes me feel good.
00:31:31Absolutely.
00:31:31Now I take responsibility for my life and I am owning my decisions.
00:31:37And it's a small nuance, but it's absolutely everything.
00:31:43Yeah.
00:31:43Everything.
00:31:44Yeah.
00:31:44And the other reason why I love this, especially as a parent of adult children, and, you know,
00:31:50there are very, this is a book about adult relationships.
00:31:53And so I make it very clear in the book and there's resources for parents with younger
00:31:58kids in the back.
00:31:58But one of the coolest things about this is that when you let someone like have their
00:32:04emotions and you let someone struggle while you say, I'm on the sidelines and I'm here
00:32:09to support, but I know that the greatest teacher in life is life and I'm not going to shield
00:32:15you from the consequences of some of the things that you're choosing.
00:32:17You're an adult.
00:32:18So I'm going to let you.
00:32:20When you allow someone the space to process emotion and the space to face their struggles
00:32:25and the space to heal on their own timeline and in their own way, you actually communicate
00:32:31that I believe that you can.
00:32:32Yeah.
00:32:33When you step in and try to force somebody to be more motivated at school or you, let's
00:32:39just take that one.
00:32:40Cause I, there's a lot of people that listen to my show and I'm sure it's the same people
00:32:46that are listening to yours that write in or like, I don't know how to make this person
00:32:50more motivated.
00:32:51Oh, for sure.
00:32:51Right.
00:32:52For sure.
00:32:52And so here's what I want you to understand.
00:32:54And this was another huge breakthrough when I was writing this book.
00:32:57Do you want to know the hardest person, hardest working person in a classroom, Jay?
00:33:00It's the kid who's struggling.
00:33:03It's not the people that are getting straight A's.
00:33:05It's the person who's having a really hard time.
00:33:08Wow.
00:33:09Do you want to know the hardest person that's working on their health?
00:33:11It's actually the person that's unhealthy because they know that they want to be healthier.
00:33:18And so they are not stuck.
00:33:20They're in deep conflict actively within themselves.
00:33:24And so if somebody is already aware that there is a gap between their potential and how they're
00:33:30performing, that there is a gap between their God-given right to thrive and be happy and
00:33:37be connected and what their life actually feels like, they know it.
00:33:42And then you come in and try to impose your will or your good ideas.
00:33:46Oh, thanks a lot.
00:33:48So I never thought that if I wanted to get good grades, I needed to study and not play video
00:33:54games.
00:33:54Thank you, Einstein.
00:33:55Oh, I should go to the gym if I want to lose some weight?
00:33:58Never thought of that.
00:34:00So you come in and you have judgment and assumptions.
00:34:04What is it that's more pressure on top of somebody who is actually already deeply conflicted
00:34:10with themselves?
00:34:11Yeah.
00:34:11And so if you really embrace this and you understand that people change when they feel
00:34:18like it and when they can, and if somebody's struggling, it's because they're not able
00:34:24to right now.
00:34:24There's a skill that's missing.
00:34:26And one of the biggest things that's typically missing is the belief that any of the small
00:34:31actions will actually do anything anyway.
00:34:34Yeah.
00:34:34And so you coming in and imposing it, you know what that says?
00:34:37It actually says, I don't believe you can do this.
00:34:40I'll do it for you.
00:34:41Yes.
00:34:42I can do it for you.
00:34:42I can solve it for you.
00:34:44Yeah, absolutely.
00:34:45If you can't control it, why on earth would you allow any time or energy to be wasted?
00:34:53Because you're going to keep this person in your life, even though they walked out the
00:34:57door, which is why you have to let them.
00:35:00You're not just letting them leave.
00:35:02You have to unlearn the patterns of your life that were with them.
00:35:09I remember when me and Radhi actually got married and we moved to America.
00:35:14And Radhi will say this herself, that at that time in her life, her parents had made a lot
00:35:17of big decisions for her.
00:35:18And she was following decisions that they were making or opportunities that they were
00:35:24putting forward.
00:35:25And all of that was with good intention.
00:35:27And then when we got married, she'd start to ask me for my advice or my insight.
00:35:32This would be anything from what plates we should buy for our apartment through to like
00:35:37what kind of curtains we wanted.
00:35:38Right.
00:35:39We're talking about really small everyday things.
00:35:41And I remember I would always say to her, well, what do you think?
00:35:45And she'd always say, no, no, no, you just tell me.
00:35:48And I'd be like, no, but what do you think?
00:35:49And in the start, it would really frustrate her.
00:35:51But now she looks back and she goes, that question helped her so much because it helped
00:35:57her find her own identity, her own strength, her own tastes, her own dislikes.
00:36:01And now she's a whole human with opinions.
00:36:03And it's so fascinating to watch that.
00:36:05And it was because I almost had this forevisioning or this thought that,
00:36:11even if I make my life easier by just telling her my tastes and dislikes and likes,
00:36:17it's only going to be easy in the short term because 10 years from now,
00:36:21she's going to think she became the person I wanted her to be and never became the person
00:36:25she could be.
00:36:26Right.
00:36:26And I could see that.
00:36:28And so I set up and I was like, no, you just tell me.
00:36:30Until this day, I always practice.
00:36:32I'm like, I think you look beautiful, but I want you to wear what you want to wear.
00:36:36It shouldn't be about what I think you look better in or worse in.
00:36:39That just shouldn't be the case.
00:36:40And it's so interesting how we think love is over-caring.
00:36:45Right.
00:36:46But actually over-caring is over-enabling that person and overwhelming that person.
00:36:51Yes.
00:36:51And it's control.
00:36:52It's control.
00:36:53You're not like, if you think about what love really is, and for me, love is two things.
00:37:00It's consideration, right?
00:37:02It's having someone in mind.
00:37:03If you pour in oat milk instead of the cow milk, because that's what they like, that's
00:37:11an act of love.
00:37:12It's also admiration.
00:37:14And admiration is the ability to see something in somebody that you deeply admire.
00:37:19I want to go back to something that you said, though, because it was genius, and it had me
00:37:28think about the idea of the power of your time and energy.
00:37:33And you were talking about, imagine if your time and your energy had dollars associated
00:37:40with it.
00:37:41Because I don't think we value it.
00:37:44And I started to think about one of the biggest obstacles, because what's ultimately happening
00:37:50when you start to use let them and let me is you're going to see that you've turned
00:37:53other people into a major problem.
00:37:55And you have turned them into a problem in four ways.
00:37:58First of all, you allow them to stress you out, but you're not going to do that anymore
00:38:01because you're going to let them be.
00:38:03But the second way that you've made them a major problem in your life is that you give
00:38:09so much weight to other people's opinions.
00:38:14And in the example you were just talking about, what was happening is by asking you, what do
00:38:20you think?
00:38:22Roddy was doing what we all do, but most of us do it subconsciously and we don't even realize
00:38:27it, which is before we even ask ourselves what feels right for us.
00:38:32We stop and consider what we think somebody's going to think.
00:38:36And you have that like really brilliant thing that I've heard you say a bazillion times that
00:38:40I love.
00:38:40It's not what you think, you think it think.
00:38:42And I'm like, wait, wait, wait, but, but so I want to play this out because this is so
00:38:46important was a huge thing for me.
00:38:48If you open up your favorite social media platform, we've all had the experience where
00:38:53you go and you pick a photo and you then put it up and you're like, okay, should I put
00:39:00a filter on this and you start to then question, is this the right photo?
00:39:03And then you go back to your photo role and then you start working on the caption.
00:39:06Should I put emoji?
00:39:06Is this too much?
00:39:07Should I do this?
00:39:08And then you are worried.
00:39:11Why?
00:39:13Because you're actually thinking about what other people are going to think or do in
00:39:18response to what you're posting.
00:39:19Which means if you take the value of it, right?
00:39:24You just overvalued something that you will never be able to control ever, ever, ever,
00:39:31ever.
00:39:32And yet you're doing it subconsciously.
00:39:33And what typically happens is if you notice, everybody's got hundreds of draft posts.
00:39:39Yeah.
00:39:40You know what that is?
00:39:40Yeah.
00:39:41That is a graveyard of energy you wasted on something that you didn't, you'll never be
00:39:46able to control because the average person has 70,000 random thoughts a day.
00:39:51You can't even control half the crap that goes in your own mind.
00:39:53So what makes you think any post is going to guarantee that any human being thinks anything?
00:40:00And the let them theory revealed to me, Jay, how often I was subconsciously valuing someone
00:40:09else.
00:40:11And that like, are they going to think negative?
00:40:12Are they going to think this?
00:40:13Is they going to think too much?
00:40:14And there's a, such a simple way to change this.
00:40:17You just let them think negative thoughts.
00:40:19That's it.
00:40:20The next time you catch yourself stopping to consider what you're going to post or what
00:40:26your colleagues might react to, and that's what's keeping you silent, say to yourself,
00:40:30let them think negative thoughts because that's what you're actually afraid of.
00:40:34And so when you say, let them think negative thoughts, something wild happens.
00:40:40You accept the reality that no matter what you do, it doesn't guarantee that anybody thinks
00:40:45anything.
00:40:46And then you say, let me, and here's where this gets really cool.
00:40:51Let me remind myself I can think what I want and I can do what I want.
00:40:54And your social media in particular, as you and I both know, it's your self-expression.
00:40:58That's what it's there for.
00:41:02And if you can't allow yourself to express yourself there, then it's going to be everywhere
00:41:09where you edit yourself because you're not just letting people think negative thoughts.
00:41:14For sure.
00:41:14But if you operate in a way now and you now take the value, you take the money back, we're
00:41:19not going to pay Jay the money for his opinion.
00:41:23I'm going to take the money back and where I'm going to put the value is operating in
00:41:27a way that makes me feel proud of myself.
00:41:29Because when I operate in a way, whether I'm posting something or I'm speaking in a meeting
00:41:33or I'm showing up and not responding to my dramatic whatever, I'm proud of myself.
00:41:39And when you're proud of yourself, you don't even consider what other people are thinking.
00:41:43Because you've just anchored all of your worth inside of yourself.
00:41:50Yeah.
00:41:51And that's why this is another reason why this is so unbelievably powerful.
00:41:55Yeah.
00:41:56And the truth is no one's thinking about you for as long as you think.
00:42:00It's true.
00:42:00No one's thinking about you for as much as you think.
00:42:03No one's thinking about you as much as they even say they're thinking about you.
00:42:07And we just, like you said, we keep draining that energy consumed by it.
00:42:11You reminded me of the beautiful Charles Horton Cooley quote.
00:42:15And he wrote this in 1890.
00:42:17And he said, the challenge today is, I'm not what I think I am.
00:42:21I'm not what you think I am.
00:42:23I am what I think you think I am.
00:42:26Which means we live in a perception of a perception of ourselves.
00:42:29So, if I think Mel thinks I'm not smart, then I don't think I'm smart.
00:42:36Right.
00:42:36So, it's not even reality.
00:42:38It's not even factually proven or checked or tested.
00:42:41Right.
00:42:41By the way, everything in the Let Them Theory, this book is literally every thought.
00:42:46Those 70,000 thoughts, that's what you're addressing in this book.
00:42:49Yes.
00:42:49And Let Them, two words, gets rid of this fear.
00:42:51Yeah.
00:42:51It literally does.
00:42:52Because I was talking, I've talked to at least three friends this week, and all of them are concerned by either, hey, Jay, I'm thinking about posting a video on social media.
00:43:02I'm scared of what people will think.
00:43:03So, that's for their professional or their passion.
00:43:06Right.
00:43:06I've got another friend who's worried that a lot of our other friends are talking about him negatively.
00:43:11Okay.
00:43:12Because he's recently fallen out with them.
00:43:14Okay.
00:43:14And so, he's worried.
00:43:15Like, what are they saying?
00:43:16They're all talking to each other.
00:43:17What rumors are they spreading about me?
00:43:19Like, maybe it's not true.
00:43:20And the thing that they're holding on to is they just can't let, they can't let them.
00:43:27And it's because-
00:43:27No, but they can.
00:43:28Yeah.
00:43:28See, I don't think they have the tool.
00:43:30Yeah.
00:43:30See, here's the thing.
00:43:31If you're worried that people are gossiping about you, let them.
00:43:34Let them gossip about you.
00:43:36Here's why.
00:43:37You can't control it.
00:43:38It's going to happen anyway.
00:43:39Yes.
00:43:40And so, if you can't control it, why on earth would you allow any time or energy to be wasted?
00:43:50Yeah.
00:43:51It's an act of self-torture.
00:43:53So, if you are worried that people are gossiping about you, first of all, let them gossip about you.
00:43:58Yeah.
00:43:58Because they're going to do what they're going to do because you cannot change what other people do.
00:44:03You can't control what they think.
00:44:04You can't control what they do.
00:44:05If they're going to gossip, they're going to gossip.
00:44:07So, let them gossip.
00:44:08And when you say that, it's a relief because you actually acknowledge the thing that you've been afraid of.
00:44:14And it's like you're allowing it without allowing it.
00:44:16But then don't forget, you have power.
00:44:18Yeah.
00:44:18Let me remind myself that I get to choose what I think about myself.
00:44:24I get to decide what I do and what I don't do, whether or not I respond or not.
00:44:31And I get to decide who I spend time with.
00:44:35And so, the bigger question becomes, if you're busy worrying about, which means you're expending time and energy, people who are gossiping about you, why would you want to be friends with them?
00:44:49Yeah.
00:44:49And so, now you take responsibility for your own part in chasing people that aren't treating you in a way that you deserve.
00:45:00Yes.
00:45:00And you recognize that the power here is in just letting people be.
00:45:04And when you let people be, your relationships get better because people reveal who they are and where you stand.
00:45:11And then you get to choose how much time you spend or not.
00:45:14Yeah.
00:45:14And not everybody in your life deserves an explanation.
00:45:18They don't deserve a response, necessarily.
00:45:23And so, you also get to choose who you tell your story to or who you apologize to or how you respond to it.
00:45:31And that's where your power is.
00:45:33And I'm not saying this makes it easy because you're probably in a situation like that going to have to say, let them, let them, let them.
00:45:41And then you're going to see them on social media and you're going to be like, should I block them?
00:45:44Should I not block them?
00:45:44Are they going to see if I do that?
00:45:45Should I not going to?
00:45:46Let them.
00:45:47Let them know their lives.
00:45:48And if I want to unfollow them, let me do that.
00:45:51Because I get to choose what comes into my space or not.
00:45:56And when you start to really play around with this, because one of the big pushbacks that I've gotten in the research is, what, am I just going to be a doormat?
00:46:03I'm going to let people abuse me?
00:46:04I'm going to let people.
00:46:04No.
00:46:05Actually, it's the opposite.
00:46:06Because you're probably allowing it right now and then explaining it away.
00:46:10When you say let them, you're letting somebody's behavior speak.
00:46:16Yeah.
00:46:17And then you have to bring it back to yourself and say, I've got to let them reveal who they are.
00:46:22And if this person keeps gaslighting me or not including me, now I've got to ask myself, is this actually the relationship for me?
00:46:33Mel, do you think we expect too much from people?
00:46:37I do.
00:46:37I think everybody's really busy.
00:46:39And life is very overwhelming.
00:46:42And you have no idea what's going on in other people's lives.
00:46:47And we've gotten to a point in today's world where if I text you, I expect Jay to respond.
00:46:53And if Jay doesn't respond, then I make it mean something about Jay or me.
00:46:59And I hate that.
00:47:02Because it doesn't give people grace.
00:47:05We're constantly expecting people to show up a certain way and then judging them when they don't.
00:47:13Instead of stopping to consider that other people have lives and other people have a lot of things going on.
00:47:19And sometimes when people go silent on you, it has nothing to do with you.
00:47:24It has to do with a crazy busy period in life.
00:47:27Or it has to do with the fact that something's going on with their family.
00:47:30And they're so drained at the end of the day that the last thing they want to do is talk to anybody.
00:47:35And so I do think we expect too much because relationships feel very, like, transactional.
00:47:42You do this for me, I do this for you.
00:47:44I text you, you better text me back.
00:47:46Now, there are rules in terms of just being courteous to people and being gracious to people.
00:47:55But I'm deeply concerned, Jay, about the rise of both estrangement.
00:48:01I'm concerned about the amount of posts that go viral about, you know, I got my life better because I cut all the toxic people out.
00:48:08And I stop and think always, well, did you have a conversation about what was bothering you?
00:48:15Because if you just ghost other people or you use the silent treatment, that's actually punishing somebody.
00:48:22And that's extremely immature, actually.
00:48:26It means you can't handle your own emotions, which is why you don't have a hard conversation about what you need or how someone's behavior is impacting you.
00:48:33And if you haven't had that, it's a very immature move to just cut somebody off.
00:48:38And so I get very worried about the labeling of people as toxic and about the ease at which people seem to just drop people.
00:48:50Yeah.
00:48:50And what I really love about the let them theory is that it opens up the window to a lot more compassion.
00:48:59Because we're quick to think that if somebody hasn't texted you back or you've texted somebody a couple times and they haven't responded, that you did something bad.
00:49:09And it's perfectly fine to be like, did I do something?
00:49:11You know, I noticed you haven't responded.
00:49:13Is everything okay?
00:49:14If they don't respond then, then something's probably wrong, either with them or with you, and you get to decide what you're going to do next.
00:49:22But I am worried about the combination of people being isolated, of people spending way too much time on their phones instead of with each other, and that we've gotten very transactional with one another.
00:49:37And it's easy to forget that people have a lot going on, and they're not thinking about you as much as you're thinking about them.
00:49:43And just because you have time to text them doesn't mean they have time right now to text you back.
00:49:48And I guarantee you, when they saw your text, they probably thought, oh my God, I love it.
00:49:51You know, I got it.
00:49:52And then something came up.
00:49:53Yeah.
00:49:54And so I do worry about it, Jay.
00:49:56I do think we have too much of an expectation of something in return.
00:50:02Yeah.
00:50:02And when you start to use this theory, what you're also going to notice is this.
00:50:07When you start to say let them, you will notice that maybe you're the sibling that reaches out more.
00:50:12And it might bother you.
00:50:15Because when you say let them, and you keep reaching out, and they don't reach out, or you have a group of friends, and you notice that when you stop reaching out or making the plans that you're not included in theirs, and that hurts.
00:50:29Yeah.
00:50:29The thing I used to do when that happened is I would make it about me.
00:50:34I would make it like some deficiency in me.
00:50:36And what I've learned using the let them theory, and really just saying let them, which detaches from the hurt, it detaches from the judgment, it reminds you that adults are allowed to live their lives.
00:50:48Adults are allowed to come and go in friendship.
00:50:50They're allowed to prioritize certain people at certain times.
00:50:54They're allowed to have busy periods at work.
00:50:56They're allowed to fall in and out of communication.
00:50:59And the more you let people live their lives, the better your life gets, and the more compassionate of a human being you become.
00:51:04And the more I've started to recognize, oh, wait, like, my social life is my responsibility.
00:51:12If I have a group of friends where if I make the plans, everybody's included, but if I sit back, I'm never invited.
00:51:20Yeah.
00:51:21Then now I got to examine, am I investing in the right group of friends?
00:51:25Or you might also wake up and realize, well, maybe I just like really, like, introverted people, but I'm the party planner, and that's my role in life.
00:51:34And instead of you being transactional, you actually recognize the gift that it is to people.
00:51:39Oh, yeah.
00:51:40Right?
00:51:40Yeah.
00:51:41And, you know, it sucks that maybe your siblings get together because they live closer and they don't include you.
00:51:47And it does hurt.
00:51:48And feeling a little bit of pain like that means your mind and body is working properly.
00:51:54Yes.
00:51:54Right?
00:51:54It's a sign that you're mentally well.
00:51:56Yeah.
00:51:56It doesn't mean there's a sign that there's anything wrong with you.
00:51:59Mm-hmm.
00:51:59And so when you can say, let them, and then you say, let me, let me decide what I want to do about this, you can have the conversation.
00:52:06Yeah.
00:52:07And you might realize that they just click and you don't have as close of a relationship.
00:52:15Mm-hmm.
00:52:15But then you get to decide how you value family.
00:52:19Mm-hmm.
00:52:19And if you're going to bring different energy or if you're going to try a little bit harder, because, again,
00:52:24you get to choose.
00:52:25Yeah.
00:52:26Yeah.
00:52:26And when you realize how much power you have, you see that through the way you think about it or you respond to it, you actually can shift anything for the better.
00:52:36For sure.
00:52:36And I'm really excited about this.
00:52:38I wrote this actually with my daughter, who's 25, and it was an amazing experience because she was bringing a much different perspective.
00:52:50And when we wrote the section about how you use the let them theory with love, she started researching the breakup section because the fact about love is people choose who and how they love.
00:53:03And sometimes they won't choose you.
00:53:04But you also get to choose who and how you love and how you're going to create it.
00:53:10And people forget that.
00:53:11And so we get to the part about when a relationship is ending.
00:53:17And her boyfriend of two years breaks up with her.
00:53:20And she's like-
00:53:20While you're writing the book.
00:53:21Yes.
00:53:21Like, this is horseshit.
00:53:24I just rip this up.
00:53:26I have to let her walk out the door.
00:53:28I have to let her believe it.
00:53:29This is a bullshit.
00:53:30Like, just like-
00:53:31And it was this unbelievable experience because when somebody that you love is grieving or going through heartbreak or struggling, you would jump in front of a car to take their pain away.
00:53:49And the let them theory and the experience of this book taught me that the best thing I could do was to let her grieve, to let her be heartbroken, to let her go through her process.
00:54:05You know, I think about it this way, like arm around somebody.
00:54:09You're not blocking and tackling.
00:54:10You've got your arm around somebody.
00:54:12But if she's on the floor sobbing, let her because she needs to.
00:54:16You know, if we need to remove the photos from the family thing, because this is a two-year-long relationship, because that is actually a huge recommendation that I make in this book, that you've got to follow a 30-day rule of zero contact, zero photos, zero videos.
00:54:32Because you're not just letting them leave.
00:54:36You have to unlearn the patterns of your life.
00:54:41Yes.
00:54:41That we're with them.
00:54:43Yeah.
00:54:43It's a withdrawal, like anything else.
00:54:46Yes.
00:54:46And any sign of that person actually triggers the old patterns in your nervous system, and it delays your ability to move through it.
00:54:55Absolutely.
00:54:55And it's impossible when you're in it to just let them move on, because every part of your wiring and programming, you're going to want to check their location.
00:55:07You're going to want to listen to the voice memos.
00:55:09You're going to want to saturate yourself, because the life that you wanted is over.
00:55:14And you're either going to trap yourself in a life that you're no longer in by watching their life play out from afar, and you're going to keep re-triggering these patterns in your nervous system, because you're going to keep this person in your life, even though they walked out the door.
00:55:32Which is why you have to let them.
00:55:35And then you've got to let me do the hard part, which is I get to choose how I'm going to move through this.
00:55:42And the research is also really empowering.
00:55:45It gets better for the majority of people.
00:55:4871% of the people start to feel better by 11 weeks.
00:55:52That's number.
00:55:5311 weeks.
00:55:5411 weeks.
00:55:54And you may feel better in 11 days.
00:55:56What happens at 11 weeks?
00:55:57What happens at 11 weeks, if you're not cyber-stalking somebody, is that you've actually allowed your body to break the old patterns.
00:56:08See, the reason why, when you're going through a heartbreak, and heartbreak and breakups are just like death.
00:56:15That's what they are.
00:56:16For sure.
00:56:16Because you're grieving what's no longer there.
00:56:19The life you had.
00:56:20Yes.
00:56:20The life you could have had.
00:56:21Yes.
00:56:21And aside from the 30-day rule, which is remove, like, do not look at voice memos, location, social, nothing.
00:56:29No photos, because it triggers everything to stay alive in you.
00:56:33But during those 30 days, what's going to happen is every time you wake up, you're going to feel them there.
00:56:38Because your body remembers.
00:56:39That doesn't mean that's a sign you should get back together.
00:56:43Yeah.
00:56:43That's actually a sign that you're unlearning something.
00:56:45Let those memories come up.
00:56:48Let your nervous system process this.
00:56:50Every time you have news in your life, you're going to want to reach out to them.
00:56:53Why?
00:56:53Because that was the pattern.
00:56:55That doesn't mean you should.
00:56:57So you've got to do the let them leave and let me remind myself I'm going through this process.
00:57:02And every day that you do that, you're actually unlearning these patterns.
00:57:07And by the time you get to about 30 days, you feel less intoxicated.
00:57:13Another huge recommendation is do something in your bedroom.
00:57:17Like, paint a wall, move the bed.
00:57:18Do something because you spent a lot of time there.
00:57:21So walking back into it is like a graveyard of your old life.
00:57:24And it can be very triggering.
00:57:26And so she did that.
00:57:28And the 11-week mark is important because what's happening is you're now starting to create new patterns.
00:57:36As you've let them leave, you're now letting me move on.
00:57:40You're letting me take the actions that show me that my life is moving forward.
00:57:47And my therapist, Ann Davin, who's the smartest woman, human being I've ever met, she said, you know, Mel, the thing for Sawyer to ask herself is if she knew that the love of her life were literally just a couple months away, what would you do right now with this period of time?
00:58:08And when you think about it that way, because again, as long as you're holding on to somebody who already left, you actually are not open to meeting anybody else.
00:58:21That is beautiful.
00:58:22That idea of what would you look like?
00:58:25What would you be thinking?
00:58:26How would you behave if the love of your life was two months away?
00:58:30Yeah, or two years ago, or a year away, or whatever.
00:58:33You see, because we think, because when somebody leaves that you love, you think you're unlovable.
00:58:39You actually think you're never going to find it again.
00:58:42You hate yourself.
00:58:44That's why most of the advice about this is complete bullshit.
00:58:50Go love yourself?
00:58:51How the hell am I going to go love myself when the person I love more than anything just left me?
00:58:56I hate myself.
00:58:57I despise myself.
00:58:59I am terrified of the day that they're going to meet somebody.
00:59:02I'm never going to find that again.
00:59:03I'm never going to have sex like that again.
00:59:05I'm not, like, you hate yourself.
00:59:09And so telling somebody to just go on a revenge diet or, you gotta love yourself, it's horrible.
00:59:15Instead, I want you to face reality.
00:59:18They left.
00:59:19Let them.
00:59:20And then let me grieve.
00:59:23And follow my therapist, Ann Davin's advice.
00:59:26You have to do a 30-day detox.
00:59:27And if you are somebody that's been holding on to somebody that left a year ago, I guarantee you,
00:59:33you have not gone 30 days without listening to a voice memo or looking at a photo.
00:59:37You are keeping them alive, which is keeping you trapped in something that's dead.
00:59:42And your inability to let them go and let them leave and then let me accept reality and start
00:59:53moving forward and let me believe that the person that I am meant to meet, they are in
01:00:00the future.
01:00:01They're not in my past.
01:00:02And by the way, even if you kind of hold out secretly hope, it might be the person from
01:00:07the past.
01:00:08It might be.
01:00:10But they're not the version from back there.
01:00:12And neither are you.
01:00:13And neither are you.
01:00:14And so you have to, again, come back to where the power is.
01:00:17It's not in getting them back.
01:00:19It's not in making them jealous.
01:00:21Because if you focus on making that person jealous or blah, blah, blah, where are you
01:00:25putting your power?
01:00:27Then.
01:00:27And something you can't control.
01:00:29You have to put your power here.
01:00:32And the reason why I love the 30-day rule and the 11-week mark is because it's the truth.
01:00:37This is going to suck.
01:00:38The only way to get over someone and to go through heartbreak is to go through it.
01:00:44There's no avoiding it.
01:00:45There's only delaying it.
01:00:46And we delay it.
01:00:47Mm-hmm.
01:00:48Because we don't want to accept people as they are.
01:00:51Yeah.
01:00:52When somebody breaks up and leaves or cheats on you, they have just revealed who they
01:00:57are.
01:00:57For sure.
01:00:58And your inability to accept it, instead of explaining it away and living in a fantasy
01:01:04up here, that's what's keeping you from having and creating the love you actually deserve
01:01:09and want in your life.
01:01:10I was talking to a friend recently, and everything you're saying is just so true, and it's resonating
01:01:15so strongly to me.
01:01:16I was talking to a friend recently, and she was saying to me, I wish my friend would just
01:01:24be honest with me.
01:01:25I wish this person who's just screwed me over, just let me down, would just be honest with
01:01:30me rather than pretending to be my friend.
01:01:32And I said to them, they are being honest with you.
01:01:37Them lying is showing you their truth.
01:01:40That's how much they value you.
01:01:42Them pretending to be your friend is their truth.
01:01:45Yeah.
01:01:45You don't want the truth.
01:01:46Actually, you want them to lie to you, and you want them to be someone else.
01:01:50You want them to become the honest person.
01:01:52Right.
01:01:52But they're showing you that they're not an honest person.
01:01:55That is the truth.
01:01:56It's true.
01:01:56And here's the other thing.
01:01:57Why are you pretending to be this person's friend?
01:01:59Yeah.
01:02:00And not bringing it up.
01:02:01Exactly.
01:02:01Why is it on them to tell you the truth?
01:02:03Yeah.
01:02:04Let them lie to you, and then come to the let me part.
01:02:07Yeah.
01:02:08If, aren't you pretending that you're their friend if you haven't brought this up?
01:02:13Mm-hmm.
01:02:13And you're actually holding that in your head, right?
01:02:16Mm-hmm.
01:02:17There are so many applications of this, Jane.
01:02:20So many.
01:02:20It's just incredible.
01:02:23And the thing that I'm really, really excited about is that, you know, the other
01:02:31massive thing that I think this is going to help people with is that one other way that
01:02:35you make people a massive problem is that you see somebody else's success or happiness
01:02:43or the things that they achieve in their life as somehow robbing you of yours.
01:02:48Yeah.
01:02:48And the thing about life is that you're never playing against people.
01:02:53You play with them.
01:02:55And somebody else's success, happiness, love, like the things that they achieve, it's in
01:03:00limitless supply.
01:03:01Mm-hmm.
01:03:02And when you wrap your brain around the fact that happiness, love, money, like all of it,
01:03:06limitless supply.
01:03:07So other people can't block your way.
01:03:09They actually lead the way.
01:03:10Mm-hmm.
01:03:11And so if you let them lead the way and you see their wins not as your losses, but you
01:03:16see it as an example to follow, you now stop making other people a problem and you stop
01:03:23using them as an excuse for why you can't do what you're capable of.
01:03:28Other people don't block you.
01:03:31You block your way.
01:03:32Mm-hmm.
01:03:32Allow people to lead the way.
01:03:35And the way that you do that is you say, let them be successful.
01:03:38Let them get married.
01:03:39Let them have the baby.
01:03:40Let them have the nice car because they're showing me what's possible.
01:03:43And the cool thing about really embracing let them in that regard is that other people
01:03:51also show you the formula, right?
01:03:53Yeah, absolutely.
01:03:54They show you exactly how to do something.
01:03:55A hundred percent.
01:03:56But if you're so busy going, oh, well, Jane launched a podcast and there's too many
01:03:59podcasts.
01:04:00Now I can't launch a podcast.
01:04:02Who's blocking you?
01:04:03You.
01:04:04Correct.
01:04:05You're capable of learning to be a better player in the game of life from other people.
01:04:12Yes.
01:04:12So stop playing against them.
01:04:15Yeah.
01:04:15And let them show you the way.
01:04:17Mel, why is it so hard to make friends as we get older?
01:04:22There is a massive shift that happens in adult friendship when you hit 20 that nobody sees
01:04:29coming.
01:04:29The rules of friendship completely change when you're 20s hit.
01:04:33And I'm going to explain the rules when you're little, and then we're going to talk about
01:04:37the rules of adult friendship.
01:04:38So when you're little, your entire life is organized around friendship and making it
01:04:45possible because you're with people your age all the time in class and sports.
01:04:49So true.
01:04:50You move in groups because you're on teams and you're in neighborhoods and you're always
01:04:55together.
01:04:56You also celebrate the same milestones.
01:04:58You're hitting the same birthdays.
01:04:59You're all talking about the next level of school or the this thing this summer.
01:05:02You're watching the same movies because you're all the same age.
01:05:04And so there's so much synergy and relevance and the conditions to spend a ton of time together
01:05:09are there.
01:05:09Then you get to university and you spend even more time together.
01:05:13And what happens when you hit your 20s, right, is that it moves from this big group sport
01:05:19where you just kind of expect to be around your friends all the time.
01:05:22You expect the group to get invited because that's what's always happened.
01:05:25You expect to see them all the time because you do always see them all the time.
01:05:28But then your 20s hit, the rules change, and what I call the great scattering happens.
01:05:34Everybody moves in different directions.
01:05:36And friendship goes from group sport to individual sport.
01:05:40You can no longer expect friendship.
01:05:43You are no longer part of a group that is expected to be invited everywhere because everybody
01:05:48scatters.
01:05:49And suddenly, everybody's on different timelines.
01:05:51You're in different cities.
01:05:53You're moving in different directions.
01:05:54So there's no way to locate yourself inside your friend group.
01:05:58And the only thing that's keeping you together from your friends, from your little, is a text
01:06:02chain that starts to go quieter and quieter and quieter as people start to focus on the
01:06:07people in front of them.
01:06:08And that brings me to two major shifts that I want you to embrace using the let them theory.
01:06:13Number one, you can no longer expect friendship.
01:06:16You have to take a way more flexible approach and a more proactive approach.
01:06:20You've got to let people come and go.
01:06:24Super important.
01:06:26And then you've got to let me take the actions to create the friendships.
01:06:30I've got to go first.
01:06:31I've got to be the one planning.
01:06:32I've got to seek out new people.
01:06:34But there are three pillars of adult friendship based on research that are also going to help
01:06:40you understand that when people come and go in your life, 99% of the time, it's not personal.
01:06:46And you actually haven't lost them as a friend.
01:06:48One of the three pillars is missing.
01:06:51So the three things that need to be required to have a friendship happen are the same three
01:06:57things that were around all the time when you were a kid.
01:06:59Number one, proximity.
01:07:00Proximity matters tremendously.
01:07:03Proximity means who are you actually physically next to.
01:07:06In fact, they've done research, Jay.
01:07:08If you and I were in a dorm and we lived across the hall, I don't remember the percentages
01:07:13exactly, but it's like 90% chance we're going to be friends.
01:07:16Interesting.
01:07:16The poor person at the end of the hallway, 10% chance that we're going to be friends with
01:07:21them because of proximity.
01:07:22Even a matter of 50 feet makes a difference.
01:07:25And so when you were little, you were in proximity to people your age all the time.
01:07:29All day.
01:07:30Exactly.
01:07:31The research also shows that to have as an adult a kind of casual friend, you need to
01:07:37spend approximately 70 hours with somebody.
01:07:39To have a close friend, 200 hours.
01:07:42So when you're an adult, that creates a big problem because who are you spending all your
01:07:47time with once you're 20?
01:07:49The American time study shows that it's with people you work with.
01:07:52So why aren't we best friends with people at work?
01:07:54Because you have proximity and you're spending a lot of time together.
01:07:57But here's the thing, timing.
01:07:58When you were little, you were in the same timing of life with everybody.
01:08:03When you hit your 20s and it's now individual, everybody's on different timelines.
01:08:09Some of your friends are getting married.
01:08:10Some are going to graduate school.
01:08:11Some are now pursuing jobs.
01:08:14Other people are moving out of the city, into the city.
01:08:17Everybody's timing is now different.
01:08:19And this also explains why you're almost never best friends with people at work.
01:08:22Because the timing is off.
01:08:24You're sitting next to people that are in very different times of their life.
01:08:28You may like them a lot and you may be friends, but you never spend time outside of work because
01:08:36they're at home with their family and you're going out with your buddies your age on the
01:08:41weekends.
01:08:42And then that brings me to the third thing that needs to be present for a friendship to
01:08:47truly click.
01:08:48And that's energy.
01:08:48And the thing about energy is it changes.
01:08:52And you can have fantastic energy with somebody.
01:08:55And then if you decide you're not drinking anymore, the energy's off.
01:08:58If you decide to get really focused on fitness, the energy's off.
01:09:02If you have very different political beliefs, the energy's off.
01:09:06It's not personal.
01:09:07It's one of these three pillars.
01:09:09And it has helped me so profoundly, Jay, to realize that people come and go and it's a
01:09:15beautiful thing and you should let them.
01:09:17And you should really, if you have a friendship that starts to dissipate, right?
01:09:22Ask yourself, before you blame them or you blame you, are any one of these three pillars
01:09:28missing?
01:09:30Are we not near each other anymore?
01:09:34Is the timing of our lives off?
01:09:37Is there just something about the energy that hasn't clicked?
01:09:40Because you can't force those things.
01:09:43But what I've found is that when you recognize that those are really important factors to your
01:09:49connection to someone else, that if a friendship starts to fade, for me, it's so easy to say,
01:09:56let them.
01:09:56And I don't wish anybody bad.
01:10:00I literally wish people well.
01:10:02Because the other thing that I've learned, and being 56, I've had a lot of friends come
01:10:07and go in different phases of my life, that you would be startled by how many people from
01:10:13your past that you no longer, quote, consider friends because you haven't seen them in a
01:10:17very long time or things just got weird.
01:10:20If you actually called them, they'd pick up the phone.
01:10:23They would.
01:10:23If you texted them, the research shows that when you get a surprise text from somebody that
01:10:29you haven't heard from in a long time, the amount of joy that you feel.
01:10:33And so I want you to consider, if you're very lonely right now, that there's actually probably
01:10:36hundreds of people from your past that still consider you a friend.
01:10:40And if you take the approach that I'm talking about, which is friendship is your responsibility.
01:10:45You need to go first.
01:10:47Let me create the friendship and the connection that I want.
01:10:51And you can start by literally taking a look through your past and thinking about people
01:10:57that you remember fondly and just sending them a text.
01:11:01And you will be startled by what comes back because they're there.
01:11:05They haven't actually gone anywhere.
01:11:07The connection is still there.
01:11:09And oftentimes, even if you've had somebody where something's been off, again, let them
01:11:14and wish them well.
01:11:17And there will be a time, I promise you, where the timing or proximity or energy comes back
01:11:23around again.
01:11:24Yeah.
01:11:24And often you're so right.
01:11:26As I'm listening to you talk, I'm just thinking of how conscious we have to be with all of our
01:11:32relationships, the ones that matter to us, the ones that we want to invest in.
01:11:36And it's what you said, we were actually dealt such a tough card in the fact that basically
01:11:45from the moment you joined school at four till the moment you were 21, if you went to college,
01:11:51you basically didn't have to make really any major decisions or think about the next step.
01:11:59Because you went from seventh grade to eighth grade to ninth grade to whatever it is.
01:12:02And so then all of a sudden, you're in the world at 21 or 18, if you didn't go to college,
01:12:09and you all of a sudden now have to figure out what to do for the next 50, 60 years.
01:12:14All structure of your life just evaporates.
01:12:16Just disappears.
01:12:17It's the hardest decade of your life.
01:12:18Because there is no structure and it makes no sense.
01:12:20And as I'm hearing you talk, it sounds like to me that it would have been harder to watch
01:12:26your daughter have to practice the let them theory than it is for you to practice the let
01:12:31them theory.
01:12:31Yes.
01:12:32When she was going through her breakup.
01:12:34Would you say that's in your deep vicinity of people that you're close with, the hardest
01:12:41way you've had to practice to let them do it?
01:12:43Yes.
01:12:44The hardest way is when you recognize the potential in somebody and you see them struggling.
01:12:52And when you recognize that somebody that you love deeply is in pain.
01:12:56When you're saying let them, you're not abandoning somebody.
01:13:00You're actually recognizing their ability to meet these difficult moments in their life
01:13:07with you by their side.
01:13:08And I think when I think about supporting versus enabling, because the more you kind of step
01:13:15in and rescue people from their feelings or from the consequences of their decisions or
01:13:20their inaction, the more people continue to drown in their problems.
01:13:25I really believe that.
01:13:26I do too.
01:13:27I really believe that.
01:13:28And it's a very, very difficult balance because you're going to hit your frustration and rock
01:13:33bottom and worry with somebody before they do.
01:13:36And somebody said something in the addiction community.
01:13:40I can't remember who said this, but it just is so true that somebody only gets sober when
01:13:45getting drunk is harder than facing the thing that they don't want to face.
01:13:52And the same is true with anything.
01:13:56Like really motivating yourself to get in better shape.
01:14:01Recognizing that you have a pattern of dating people that are emotionally abusive and taking
01:14:05a break and really digging deep into the issue that keeps coming up for you, that's really
01:14:10hard.
01:14:11That's why we avoid it.
01:14:12Yeah.
01:14:13And so when you see somebody that you know is capable or who deserves better, wanting that
01:14:19for them is a form of loving them.
01:14:21I like you should want the people in your life that you care about to be doing better.
01:14:26And you, I hate seeing somebody with so much potential squandering it.
01:14:32But again, I'm going to come back to something that I learned from Dr. Stuart Avalon at Mass
01:14:37General Hospital.
01:14:39People do well when they can.
01:14:41And I want you to start to assume that if somebody in your life is not doing well, or
01:14:46if they're going through a challenge, there is a skill that's missing, or there is emotion
01:14:51that needs to be processed, or there is pain that needs to be felt before they can galvanize
01:14:56the ability to do the very difficult work to change.
01:15:02And in the case of watching my daughter go through this heartbreak, I mean, I literally
01:15:08found myself, Jay, wanting to text, you know, her boyfriend or boyfriend's mother, like,
01:15:13you know, hey, maybe we can, like, just because I want to fix it.
01:15:15But when you step in and fix it, you literally demean someone else.
01:15:21Because I do know that she has the ability to move through this.
01:15:25And so the way that I love thinking about support is this way.
01:15:28The next time you have somebody in your life who is truly struggling, whether it's in school
01:15:33or in relationships or with an addiction, I want you to think, how can I create an environment
01:15:40environment that supports their healing?
01:15:45Not stepping in and doing it.
01:15:47It's rarely an issue of will.
01:15:48Like, it's not willpower for people or the desire.
01:15:51It's actually more about skill and the ability and need to process things and do it on their
01:15:57own timeline, right?
01:15:59So how can you create an environment for that to happen?
01:16:01And for me, it meant removing any imagery.
01:16:05It meant letting her stay up in her bedroom and every once in a while knocking on the door
01:16:09and being like, do you need anything?
01:16:11And allowing her to be in her pajamas for four days and be in a depressive state.
01:16:15Because guess what?
01:16:16Being in a depressive state and falling on the floor and crying, it's a sign she's mentally
01:16:21well.
01:16:23That's what you do.
01:16:25It's a sign that you're okay.
01:16:28Yes.
01:16:28It would be scary if she wasn't feeling anything.
01:16:32And then when you're ready, you kind of put your arm around people.
01:16:36And so how can you do this?
01:16:37Like, when she was born, actually, Sawyer, I had severe postpartum depression, Jay.
01:16:43I had a very traumatic delivery, lost a lot of blood, and I just was so out of it that
01:16:49they put me on these drugs that turned me into a zombie.
01:16:52I couldn't breastfeed her.
01:16:53I wasn't allowed to be alone with her.
01:16:55I missed the first three and a half months of her life.
01:16:58And nobody asked me if I needed help.
01:17:03They showed up and created an environment where I could get better.
01:17:09I had my parents drive out and just stay, and they just did laundry, and they cleaned,
01:17:13and they did what needed to be done.
01:17:15And people who are struggling, they don't even know what they need.
01:17:19And so don't ask somebody what you can do.
01:17:24Find something you can do.
01:17:26Show up with a meal.
01:17:29Walk into your brother's bedroom and pull open the curtains in the morning when he's
01:17:34struggling with depression so the sunlight comes in.
01:17:37Create a playlist for somebody.
01:17:39Pick them up.
01:17:40Like, don't say you want to meet at yoga.
01:17:42Say, here's what we're going to do.
01:17:43I'm going to come over on Saturday and pick you up, and we're going to go to that yoga class.
01:17:46Or I'm going to come over on Sunday, and I'm going to watch the kids and the dog so you
01:17:51can go to the park and read a book for two hours.
01:17:54That's how you create an environment for someone else to get better.
01:17:59And the other way that you do it is instead of judging, you're going to let them be who
01:18:05they are.
01:18:05You're going to let them struggle.
01:18:06And then you're going to use this technique that's incredibly effective.
01:18:10I labeled it the ABC so that I could remember it.
01:18:14First, you're going to apologize.
01:18:15So let's talk about, like, this is an issue I had with our son.
01:18:18He didn't seem motivated.
01:18:20So I would constantly be like, why aren't you motivated?
01:18:22Why don't you study hard?
01:18:23Why are you doing this?
01:18:25It didn't work.
01:18:27Yeah, it doesn't work.
01:18:27No.
01:18:28And so I finally, A, you're going to apologize.
01:18:33I'm sorry I'm pressuring you.
01:18:35I'm sorry I'm questioning you.
01:18:37And then, A, you're going to ask an open-ended question.
01:18:40How do you feel about this issue?
01:18:43And it doesn't matter what they say, because you're probably asking for the first time how
01:18:49they actually feel about the issue.
01:18:51And then you're going to ask a really important question.
01:18:53You're going to ask, well, what would you like to do about it, if anything?
01:18:56And their answers don't matter, because what you're doing by apologizing is you're removing
01:19:00the pressure that you're bringing.
01:19:01And now by asking these questions, and I like to do this in a car, Jay, because they're trapped.
01:19:07And because you're both looking ahead, so it's not as confrontational.
01:19:12And there's something in the science around forward ambulation and the movement that actually
01:19:16opens up your thinking.
01:19:18And then you ask, you know, what do you want to do about it, if anything?
01:19:25And what happens is you're now revealing this tension, because people that are stuck know
01:19:31it.
01:19:32People that are struggling know it.
01:19:33People who are failing at school know it.
01:19:35Nobody wants to fail.
01:19:37It's not like people are trying to be depressed.
01:19:40It's not like people are trying to be very unhealthy.
01:19:43People know when they're letting themselves go.
01:19:47You don't need to remind them.
01:19:49But have you ever asked them, what would you like to do about this, if anything?
01:19:52What happens in that question, whether they answered or not, is that friction between what
01:19:58they know to be true about what they desire and where they actually are rises up.
01:20:05That is the organizing, intrinsic motivation that somebody needs to want to do better.
01:20:14And then you got to do B, back off.
01:20:16That's the hard part.
01:20:17Let them, let them, let them, let them, let me shut up.
01:20:20Let them, let them, let me not roll my knives.
01:20:22Let me, and people need space to have it be their idea.
01:20:27And I'll give you a quick example.
01:20:28I used to be the kind of person that would eat, like, that would eat lunch and work on
01:20:32my computer.
01:20:32I'm like tapping on my computer, shoving a sandwich on my throat, right?
01:20:35And there would be this colleague that would stand up and go for a walk most days.
01:20:40And every time she came back, she'd have a smile on her face and she'd take her earbuds
01:20:43off and she'd then get back to work.
01:20:46And this would go on for weeks.
01:20:48And then finally one day, Jay, I look up outside and it's a nice day.
01:20:53And I think, I think I'm gonna go for a walk.
01:20:55Now here's the interesting thing.
01:20:57I didn't credit her.
01:20:59I thought it was my idea.
01:21:00Her example influenced my desire to do it.
01:21:05The people that you are close to need enough distance from you.
01:21:10This is why you have to back off for that friction.
01:21:13Yeah.
01:21:14And that stirring to sit with them in order for them to feel safe, to be able to take the
01:21:24step forward.
01:21:24And then you better keep backing off because you do not want to be like, oh, I saw you
01:21:28didn't matter in your test.
01:21:29Like that's kind of, no.
01:21:31And so you keep going, let them.
01:21:33And then the C part is any small thing, you celebrate it in a non-passive aggressive way.
01:21:41And you actually model the change.
01:21:44You can't ask somebody to stop drinking while you're pouring yourself a glass of wine.
01:21:47For sure.
01:21:47You can't ask somebody else to get healthy if you're sitting on the couch eating chips.
01:21:51So you model the change and make it easy, just like my colleague did with the walk.
01:21:56And just like you and I constantly buy things online because it looks so easy and fun,
01:22:01your behavior and backing off and that tension inside them actually creates the space for
01:22:07somebody to truly want to change.
01:22:10And that's how it's done.
01:22:12Mel, I want to thank you so deeply for writing this book.
01:22:16The Let Them Theory, a life-changing tool that millions of people can't stop talking about.
01:22:22It's true.
01:22:24Mel, I've learned so much from you today, honestly, and you've connected so many dots to me.
01:22:28I know I'm going to be recommending this book to so many people in my life because I really
01:22:32believe it's the thing that's holding them back.
01:22:34Yeah.
01:22:34I want to thank you for writing it.
01:22:35I want to thank you for pouring your heart into it.
01:22:37I want to thank you for just showing up so brilliantly and emphatically today as you
01:22:41always do.
01:22:41And I'm just so grateful to call you a friend and grateful to know you in this journey called
01:22:46life and genuinely so thankful that you're constantly trying to find really simple, practical
01:22:53tools that all of us can apply in our lives to make it easier and make it a bit more livable,
01:22:59but also thrive.
01:23:00So thank you so much, truly.
01:23:02Well, I'm not as smart as you, Jay, so I can't do the intellectual stuff.
01:23:05I got to find simple things.
01:23:06Are you kidding me?
01:23:07Well, you know, I have to tell you, I really appreciate-
01:23:10Simple is beautiful.
01:23:11And I truly accept and feel how heartfelt and honest those words are, because this
01:23:22is, I think, my legacy.
01:23:25I do.
01:23:26I think that this is the thing I was supposed to figure out and leave the world.
01:23:32I believe it, too.
01:23:35You're the best.
01:23:36So are you.
01:23:36If you love this episode, you'll love my interview with Dr. Gabor MatƩ on understanding
01:23:43your trauma and how to heal emotional wounds to start moving on from the past.
01:23:49Everything in nature grows only where it's vulnerable.
01:23:51So a tree doesn't grow where it's hard and thick, does it?
01:23:54It grows where it's soft and green and vulnerable.
01:23:56You don't need something.
01:24:01It grows when it's dark.
01:24:02You don't.
01:24:04You cannot hear your trauma.
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