00:00I mean, according to reports, there's been a string of perceived or interpreted as anti-Semitic attacks in Australia,
00:09which have targeted buildings and individuals there since the 7th of October.
00:15And I'm wondering whether, in your mind, the warning signs were there ahead of Sunday's attack.
00:21Well, what we've seen since 7-7 is a rise in both extremism and in hate crime.
00:28And what you've just described really is a manifestation of hate crime.
00:32That is not the same as terrorism, which must have a ideological, political, religious or racial component
00:39and to have a significant human element in terms of death or destruction.
00:44That's the difference. There's not also necessarily a linear pathway between what you've described in terms of extremism and hate crimes and terrorism.
00:54That said, it seems that the Australian authorities have tolerated the intolerable and that can be one of the definitions of extremism.
01:05And it can be that there are pathways between extremism and terrorism, but they're not not necessarily linked.
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