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PoliticsNation with Al Sharpton - Season 2025 Episode 96
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00:00It's lead, tired of winning.
00:13As the clock ticks down on 2025, the president who promised America a winning streak like we've never seen,
00:22just had a week of back-to-back-to-back losses, despite all he can and did all he could to block the release of the Epstein files.
00:34House Democrats just dumped a second batch of photos from the Epstein estate,
00:40showing the president and other public figures socializing with the convicted sex offender,
00:47despite pushing his Justice Department to go after one of his loudest political enemies in Tish James.
00:55A grand jury declined to indict the New York attorney general for the second time in a week over alleged mortgage fraud.
01:04And even Republicans in Indiana rejected his pressure to campaign,
01:09and his pressure campaign on them to gerrymander their state just so he can keep a paper-thin majority in the House next year.
01:20All of this comes as a firebrand Democrat just entered the Senate race in another state
01:26where Trump's gerrymandering push may backfire next year.
01:33That's Texas, which is where we start tonight.
01:36Joining me now is Congresswoman Jasmine Crockett, Democrat of Texas,
01:41currently running to represent the state in the U.S. Senate.
01:45Congresswoman, great to see you again. Always glad to have you.
01:50Let's start with your Senate campaign.
01:52You already have national Democrats divided on whether you're the right candidate to win a general election in Texas.
01:59This week we heard the criticism from longtime Democratic strategist James Carville
02:05that your campaign is more about you than Texas voters and that you're too concerned about getting clicks and online fundraising to win statewide.
02:16Let me play some of that and come back to you so you can respond to it.
02:20First of all, she seems like she's well-educated, seems like she's highly, got a lot of energy.
02:31But she, to me, to me, she violates the first rule of politics.
02:36And that is in politics, you always make it about the voters and never about yourself.
02:40What's your response, Congresswoman? Why are you running for the Senate now?
02:48Well, actually, so let me get to the response first.
02:51So my response is that we absolutely plan to make this about the people.
02:55I've always been about the people.
02:57I definitely did not grow up in a home in which I ever thought I would enter politics.
03:01It was people that were pushing me forward.
03:04The only reason I ever won my state house seat, because we were, again, not the establishment pick.
03:10In fact, the entire establishment came out against me.
03:14And ultimately, we won because of the people.
03:16We were people-powered.
03:17We were outspent five to one, yet we made it over the hump.
03:20And we had the closest margin to get into the state house.
03:24And ultimately, the people were very excited to have my voice.
03:27And even on the federal level, at this point in time, a lot of people were concerned.
03:32And they said, we can't lose our voice.
03:34But here is the reality.
03:35My people, the people of Texas, we need real results.
03:40And right now, we can't get them unless we change the Senate map.
03:43When you start to talk about things like gerrymandering and what's happening with this administration,
03:48trying to go state to state, it is the Senate that we need help out of.
03:51Because we know that the John Lewis Voting Rights Advancement Act, that was passed out of the House.
03:57But it went nowhere in the Senate.
03:59When people complained about Elon buying an election, if we would have had the Freedom to Vote Act,
04:04which did pass out the House, it went nowhere in the Senate.
04:07In addition to that, it is only the Senate that has oversight over the Supreme Court.
04:11That's why I, as a trained attorney, am saying this is what we need.
04:15We need real oversight over the Supreme Court, and we need somebody that understands the complexities of the legislation
04:21that I have been fighting for since before I actually got to the U.S. House.
04:27And in full disclosure, I've worked with you when you were part of those that left Texas blocking certain situations.
04:36So I know of your work a long time, even though you're a little younger than me.
04:42But staying with that, we have the first public poll since you entered the race.
04:48It came out from the Texas Southern University.
04:51It has you with an eight-point lead over Texas Representative James Tallarico,
04:58who we've also reached out to come on the show due largely to your popularity, though,
05:04this poll shows with blacks, with women, and older voters.
05:09Still, that's just one poll.
05:11One week into your Senate race, and you have some Democrats worried that a messy primary could hurt
05:18what they see as the party's best possible chance to flip the Texas Senate seat in three decades,
05:24as Republicans Ken Paxton and John Cornyn duke it out for the nomination on the other side.
05:32Why are you the best Texas Democrat to win this race, Congresswoman?
05:37Yeah, so first of all, this is a federal election.
05:42This is for a federal seat.
05:43And so I've served on the state level as well as the federal level.
05:47In fact, I served with Representative Tallarico, and so I have nothing negative to say about him.
05:52And I have no intentions of trying to be negative in this campaign because I do think that we have to be unified.
05:57Unfortunately, we've seen a number of coordinated attacks on me.
06:03But listen, I'm used to it, so it is what it is.
06:06But when we're talking about being able to move forward on behalf of Texans and someone who's actually been in the trenches
06:12on the federal level dealing with these federal issues, already having federal relationships
06:17and already having filed federal legislation, I think that that is going to be something that can make sure
06:23that we are not necessarily having to deal with a learning curve, as well as the fact that, again,
06:29it's so important to understand that when it comes down to judges and whether or not they are Senate approved,
06:36I think that my experience in the courtroom will be very helpful in being able to not only ask questions
06:43if I'm given an opportunity in some of those confirmation hearings to ask questions of potential candidates
06:49that will be sitting on our benches for life.
06:51I think that we all now understand why it's important to get the right judiciary.
06:58As you know, you let in and you talked about Tish James.
07:01It is so very important because these people are getting lifetime appointments,
07:05whether they're the trial level judges or whether we're talking about up to the Supreme Court.
07:09And so I think that that's something that also makes me uniquely situated to be able to be in the best position
07:15to help not only the state of Texas, but this country.
07:19And the final point that I'll make as it relates to being able to flip the state, we need not only energy.
07:24That is something that at least Mr. Carville acknowledged that I bring.
07:28I mean, you're not going to flip the state of Texas without energy.
07:31Like, we're going to need that.
07:32But more importantly, I have worked all around this country to help out.
07:37And one of the things that I did when I was trying to decide whether or not I was going to run
07:40was that I absolutely picked up the phone and I asked other people,
07:44if we get into this race, do you have our back?
07:47And so we understand that we can make this a situation where it's a national race
07:52to the extent that we have national help.
07:54But at the end of the day, this is all about Texas and Texas values
07:58and showing them that we are Texas tough.
08:00And right now, we've got a lot of weak individuals that are in office
08:04because they have decided that they only want to appease one person
08:07instead of looking at the 30 million people that they are supposed to be representing in the state of Texas.
08:13Now, you just went there.
08:15So let me go there, Congresswoman.
08:16We've seen MAGA attack black Democratic women over and over again.
08:21You mentioned Trump's Justice Department failed to secure grand jury indictment
08:26of New York Attorney General Tish James for the second time in a week over alleged mortgage fraud.
08:33In your opinion, how much of the opposition to your Senate run
08:38is about you being an outspoken black woman in a deep red state
08:42that went overwhelmingly for Trump last year?
08:47Yeah, I mean, we've seen the comments.
08:50We've seen the comments about, you know, well, it's a black woman.
08:53And honestly, we've seen it from both sides.
08:55I'm going to be perfectly honest.
08:56And people have not been able to back that up with the data.
09:00The data is clear.
09:02Texas is one of the lowest voter turnout states in this country.
09:05We are only turning out approximately 50% of those registered voters.
09:10We have almost 19 million registered voters.
09:12And we are a state that is a majority minority state.
09:15And so the idea that another minority somehow cannot appeal to other minorities is absolutely insane.
09:22I will tell you this last thing before we move on,
09:25is that State Representative Nicole Collier, who you are very familiar with,
09:29she is the black woman that they locked onto the House floor.
09:31Well, Representative Collier called me today from a car wash with a gentleman.
09:38She said, he stopped me and said, I know you're voting for Representative Crockett, right?
09:43And so I said, what?
09:45And so I FaceTimed her back.
09:46And this gentleman said, Representative, I have never cared about politics or paid attention until you.
09:52He's like, I am so excited to vote for you.
09:55I've been telling everybody, we've got to go vote for her.
09:58That is the power that I truly believe we will be able to bring out in this campaign.
10:04And frankly, that is what it's going to require.
10:07If you continue to look at the electorate in Texas that we've had for the last 30 years
10:12and just say, let's figure out how to move the chess pieces around,
10:16I think that we're going to end up with the same results.
10:18If you don't have a plan to expand the electorate, a real plan, then I think that we're going to lose.
10:23All right, let's talk Senate procedure.
10:27Trump's been trying and failing to go through the courts to get his picks for federal prosecutors installed.
10:34And this week, Senate Republicans rebuffed a push from the president to do away with so-called blue slips
10:41that allow senators to effectively block federal judicial nominees from their home state.
10:47He also called for the removal of the filibuster or the Senate filibuster.
10:54As a Senate candidate, what's your view on what the chamber should be
10:59and how it should handle procedures that historically have been used to impede minority civil rights?
11:08Yeah, so this is a tough one.
11:10And I'm glad that you gave the history of some of these procedures.
11:14You know, there's a lot of traditions in the Senate that people are not aware of.
11:18I think that it is important that we consider the initial purpose and how they are currently playing out.
11:26And honestly, I have not been the biggest fan of blue slips myself.
11:30I'm going to be perfectly honest.
11:31But do I think that we should just completely do away with them?
11:34No.
11:35But do I think that we need to be smart and come up with maybe a way to reform them?
11:39Yes.
11:39So for those sitting at home and are like, what are y'all talking about?
11:42A blue slip basically says in every state you have two senators.
11:47And if one senator says no on a nominee, then basically you don't fill that position.
11:54And so what's been happening here recently is in states like Texas.
11:57And then those positions are for U.S. attorneys in that state, federal officers in that state, federal judges and the like.
12:05Go ahead.
12:06Correct.
12:07Correct.
12:08As well as the U.S. marshals.
12:09Okay.
12:09So what has happened in a lot of situations, specifically in Texas, when we start to talk about judicial economy, we don't have enough judges that are sitting on our benches to actually move cases right now, as well as it is a bit dangerous when we're talking about the fact that you don't necessarily have your U.S.
12:27attorneys, you don't necessarily have your U.S.
12:30marshals that are appointed because literally Republicans will say we're just going to basically hold these vacancies until we get a Republican president.
12:39And so that's not really good.
12:40And when you're talking about diversity on the benches, you know, I used to walk into these federal courts and you may have an Obama appointee or you may have a Clinton appointee or a Bush appointee.
12:50You would have appointees from all the different judges.
12:53Right now, what we're seeing is that Republicans are refusing to allow for there to be any appointees to any of these positions.
13:00And it's not serving us. So I do think that there is room for us to figure out how should we reform this and be really smart about it.
13:07While at the same time, I don't think that what Trump is trying to do right now, which is to continue to stack these courts and to stack.
13:14And right now he just wants to get his attorney general pick through so that he can then, you know, hopefully get an indictment.
13:22But, you know, we have to make sure that we are protecting the sanctity and the goal.
13:29We've got to make sure that we're doing this in a smart way.
13:31But right now, what he's proposing, I don't think is right.
13:33Now, finally, Congresswoman, I'm out of time, but I must go here with you.
13:38You've been vocal in Congress on the Epstein files.
13:42You also you also sit on the House Oversight Committee, which just released a second batch of photos from Jeffrey Epstein's estate showing President Trump, Bill Clinton, Bill Gates, Steve Bannon and other high profile public figures in Epstein's company.
14:00The photos don't appear to show any illegal activity and will note that all of these people have have denied, not denied that they knew him, but had denied any wrongdoing.
14:15Still, what's your take on where things are headed with this congressional investigation?
14:21I'm out of time.
14:22But if you can give me your brief takes since you're there on the committee.
14:25Yeah. So I think a couple of things about this, I think what the Democrats wanted to do is show that, like, they're not really trying to cherry pick and say, well, you know, we'll only release the Trump photos.
14:36But instead, we will let y'all know that this is about everybody and everything is on the table.
14:42I think that that's what that was about.
14:43I also think that it's so important to show just how close the president was with Epstein, because he's definitely tried to distance himself after making promises to his own people about what he would do.
14:55Now, ultimately, you know, listen, I honestly don't think there's anything that Trump can do that will make his followers leave him.
15:02But I do think that it is important to be real about the transparency of it all and to make sure that people understand who it is that they're dealing with.
15:10And at the end of the story, at the end of the day, we have promised these survivors that we would try to go and break the very systems that have allowed the rich and powerful to engage in this type of scheme that took place.
15:22Not saying that any of these people necessarily did, but we've got to make sure that we are reforming these systems and make sure that there is never an opportunity for another Jeffrey Epstein to come around and abuse young girls and women.
15:37All right. Thank you very much for being with us, Texas Congresswoman Jasmine Crockett.
15:42Now let's turn to Missouri, where a Republican-backed effort to gerrymander the state at President Trump's demand has been placed on hold by a county judge.
15:55Opponents of the redistricting have turned in more than 300,000 signatures to Missouri's Secretary of State in order to force a statewide voter referendum on the new map next year.
16:09Joining me now is Congressman Wesley Bell, Democrat of Missouri.
16:14Congressman, thank you for joining us.
16:17Starting right off with the GOP-backed redistricting plan for your state.
16:22You've been against it from the start.
16:25Tell us what's at stake in your view.
16:30This is about getting at the heart of democracy and what it means to have a representative government.
16:38Not a government where politicians get to choose their voters, but where voters get to actually choose their representatives.
16:46And what Republicans are doing is they know that they can't win fairly, so they're going to cheat.
16:52And fortunately, in Missouri, we have our ballot initiative process.
16:58We can take it straight to the people.
17:00We have to do that with reproductive rights.
17:03We have to do that to expand Medicaid.
17:05We have to do that to push back against right to work.
17:09And now we're going to do that to push back against these illegal and just criminal redistricting efforts by Republicans.
17:20Now, the Secretary of State is trying to throw out thousands of signatures to stop a redistricting referendum.
17:26Are you confident this issue can make it to the ballot in the midterms?
17:32And what happens if it does not?
17:36Listen, Rev, they're not going to stop this train.
17:39We've done this before.
17:40We have the muscle memory.
17:42We knew that we would be able to get the signatures we needed.
17:46And I want to shout out a lot of organizations, one in particular, people, not politicians, who led this effort.
17:53But this was, in fact, a team effort all over the state.
17:57And we are very confident.
17:59We needed about 116,000 signatures.
18:03We got 300,000.
18:05So they'll try to throw some out.
18:08But we have we were very confident that we have the wit.
18:12We have well more than what we need.
18:14And then this will put it on the ballot.
18:17And the people of Missouri will decide.
18:19And I'll be quite frank.
18:20I don't have confidence in Republicans to do what's right.
18:25But I do have confidence in the people, particularly the people in Missouri.
18:29And I might add the focus of a lot of their gerrymandering, attempted gerrymandering is around Congressman Reverend Emanuel Cleaver's congressional district.
18:40Let's switch to Venezuela and what appears to be the early stages of a major escalation of the president's military actions.
18:48As he teased yesterday that a ground offensive could be coming against the South American country.
18:55And the U.S. has seized an oil tanker, allegedly in international waters, often as well as coasts, that the Trump administration claims has been used to carry sanctioned oil between Venezuela and Iran.
19:12Is there anything Congress can do to bring Trump to heel on Venezuela?
19:18I think that it's our job.
19:21Not only do I serve on the Armed Services Committee, but I'm also on the Oversight Committee.
19:26And we need House Republicans to step up and do their job and work with Democrats to hold this administration accountable.
19:35The problem that we have, I'm a former prosecutor, so I have no sympathy for drug dealers.
19:42That said, we are also a nation of laws.
19:45And there's this whole thing about due process and the rule of law that Republicans we hear talk about.
19:54And so that's what we're demanding of the administration to follow the rule of law.
20:00Make certain that if you are going to start what looks like a ground offensive, a war, then that means Congress needs to approve this.
20:11And we're not saying that we're not saying the administration come and talk to us, for example, serving on the Armed Services Committee.
20:19And we need Republicans, as well as Democrats who are already doing this, to hold this administration accountable.
20:28And that's exactly what we intend to do.
20:30Finally, Congressman, I want to get your reaction to today's news that two U.S. soldiers and a civilian interpreter were killed today in Syria by a suspected Islamic State attacker.
20:44That's according to U.S. officials, the attack comes one month after Syria and the U.S. announced cooperation to crackdown on the Islamic State.
20:55Trump and headset have vowed retaliation.
20:59Have you heard anything from the Pentagon on what happened today?
21:02We have not as of yet.
21:06And what I don't want the administration to do is use yet another distraction to get away from not only their responsibilities, but also other things that you mentioned on a previous segment with the Epstein files.
21:23And I do serve on the Oversight Committee with Congresswoman Crockett, and I am on the subcommittee that initially was able to secure the Epstein files and get them released so we can start getting this information.
21:40But what we're seeing yet again is an administration that is not looking to work with the Congress and allow the Congress to do our jobs and the war power should come through us.
21:54That's what the Constitution says.
21:56Instead, where the administration continues to do the same thing, they act and then they think.
22:02They act, make a mistake, mess, screw it up, and then they start trying to figure out how to piece it together as opposed to let's do this on the front end.
22:13Let's make sure that we know what happened, that we do a full investigation, because my prayers are with those service members who lost their lives, a civilian who lost their lives and their families.
22:25And let's make certain that justice is served, not a distraction for the administration to get the heat off them from other situations.
22:35All right. Thanks to you, Congressman Wesley Bell.
22:39As we go to break, we're following breaking news now out of Providence, Rhode Island.
22:44There's been a shooting incident on the Brown University campus, according to two law enforcement sources.
22:51Up to two people are reportedly dead and 20 others are injured, but authorities warn those numbers could change.
23:00The shooter is reportedly described as down, shot by police, by law enforcement several blocks from the campus.
23:08We'll bring you more information as we get it.
23:17Welcome back to Politics Nation.
23:19I've got Georgia on my mind.
23:22My next guest just flipped a seat in the statehouse there, a seat that Republicans have held since 2019.
23:30In a district Trump dominated by double digits last year.
23:34Joining me now, state representative elect Eric Gessler, a Democrat.
23:40Congratulations on your win.
23:41And first of all, the Atlanta Journal-Constitution reports, you pulled off a, quote, special election stunner.
23:50You work at a nine-to-five job at a tech startup and also run a small business.
23:56What did you believe is the reason behind your win?
24:00Well, here in Georgia, just past, just last month in November, we came off of a really big win.
24:08You know, Georgia Democrats won very big in the Public Service Commission races.
24:14So there's a lot of energy coming into this.
24:17And, you know, this special election was, it came up right before that election.
24:21So we were able to hit the ground running very quickly, tie right into those get-out-the-vote efforts and really start, you know, pushing the same message, really, as affordability.
24:32The Public Service Commission was focused on energy affordability.
24:35But what I was talking about to voters was housing prices going up, housing costs of housing, energy as well, groceries, the health care, everything, really.
24:45And that's really a message that's resonating with voters in the district these days.
24:50Now, DNC Chair Ken Martin touts your win as a sign of momentum that Democrats across the board are blowing past 2024 margins.
25:00Next week, I'll have Democratic Mayor Miami, Maryland-elect Eileen Higgins here on the program.
25:08She also won her special election.
25:11No Democrat has won in Miami in 30 years.
25:14Do you think we're in the middle of a political sea change?
25:19I think we are.
25:21And if I'm honest about it, I would say it may not be as much of how well we're doing on the Democratic side as much as how the Republican Party seems to be imploding.
25:32They're 100 percent focused on pleasing Donald Trump on everything.
25:37And the people are seeing, you know, they're seeing their bills rise and they're seeing what they're paying at the gas pump.
25:43And they're also seeing attacks on our basic constitutional rights, just full-out assault.
25:48And I believe that we're going to see a massive change next year, not only because of that, but because people who voted for Donald Trump last year, who held their nose and bought whatever he was selling when it came to, you know, lowering prices despite running on raising tariffs.
26:07I'm not sure how that worked, but people believe that they voted for it and they're not getting that, right?
26:12So I think there's a big difference between a dedicated maggot Republican and a traditional conservative.
26:18And I think that a lot of those more traditional conservative types are open to a new message next year when we're on the campaign trail.
26:25Now, you've seen the headlines, headlines from the other side.
26:30Things haven't been all peachy keen between Georgia Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene and President Trump.
26:37What's your reaction to her falling out with Trump and what are voters in your soon-to-be district saying about it?
26:44You know, my reaction on that is we saw her change her tune, and the very first time that she announced it, it was because her own kids were going to be impacted by those ACA subsidies.
26:59And I think that that kind of applies across the board to the MAGA GOP voters that I was talking about.
27:05Maybe not so much the traditional conservatives, but the MAGA GOP, until it hits them personally, they don't really seem to care.
27:11And so, you know, with Marjorie Taylor Greene, you know, to me, I think to a lot of voters, it's too little, too late.
27:19But I'm glad she's seeing the light finally.
27:22All right. The midterms are less than a year away.
27:25Is there a lesson you learned from your campaign that you can share with other Democratic candidates?
27:33Yeah, I would say the core message really is we're at a point now where people can see with their own eyes
27:40in their own ears what's actually happening.
27:43Donald Trump can tell me that gas is $1.99 a gallon, but the quick dirt down the street has $2.75 on their sign.
27:51And when I put my credit card in that pump, it's going to charge me their price, not what he's telling me.
27:55So voters can see the reality in their everyday lives, and they can make a choice.
28:01So if Democrats run on, you know, objective reality, common sense approaches to practical solutions,
28:08then we have a real shot to win voters.
28:11Georgia State Representative-elect Eric Gessler, thank you for being with us tonight.
28:18Coming up, President Trump's no good, very bad week.
28:22My panel breaks it down.
28:24Welcome back to Politics Nation.
28:32Texas Congresswoman Jasmine Crockett has launched her run for Senate earlier this week.
28:38I just spoke with the Congresswoman earlier in the show on her run.
28:43Let's play back some of what she said.
28:45Unfortunately, we've seen a number of coordinated attacks on me, but listen, I'm used to it, so it is what it is.
28:55But when we're talking about being able to move forward on behalf of Texans and someone who's actually been in the trenches on the federal level,
29:03dealing with these federal issues, already having federal relationships and already having filed federal legislation,
29:09I think that that is going to be something that can make sure that we are not necessarily having to deal with a learning curve.
29:18Joining me now to discuss this and other issues is my political panel,
29:23Susan Del Presio, Republican strategist, and Juanita Talibur, a Democratic strategist.
29:30Both are MS Now political analysts.
29:33Susan, Republicans seem eager to run against Congresswoman Crockett.
29:38Republican Congressman Wesley Hunt has said he wants to debate her, and he's running third in the Republican primary.
29:46Are they right to do so?
29:48I don't think so.
29:49I mean, the Congresswoman has a really thoughtful, planned-out run for herself.
29:56That's why it took her a while to announce.
29:58And it's highly unlikely, I'm sorry, but she's probably not, if she's the nominee, she's not going to win Texas this year.
30:05It just hasn't been falling that way.
30:08But she's right to compete.
30:10I think she's been knocked too much for getting in, and maybe she didn't wait her turn kind of thing.
30:16But she is in there, and she has a voice, and she has something to say, and there are people who want to hear it.
30:21Juanita, Democrats have been split over Congresswoman Crockett's entry into the race.
30:26Do you think the concerns are legitimate?
30:29Isn't she, in many ways, the kind of fighter that could connect online with new voter groups that many in the party have been looking for?
30:39Imagine a candidate who can mobilize people who have been disaffected by politics, Rev.
30:45Like, that's what's essential in this moment.
30:48I think that's what's going to decide the Democratic nominee for the Senate seat in Texas, as well as her performance in a general election.
30:55And, Susan, I'll push back a little bit, because we have seen Democrats overperforming and Republicans underperforming, especially as people are struggling and suffering under Trump's economic actions,
31:07which are hurting them when they go to the grocery store, at the pumps, layoffs and jobs that are starting to approach Great Recession levels and approach pandemic levels.
31:17And in Tennessee 7 just last week, we saw a margin that Trump had by 24 points go down to single digits.
31:25And so I think there is always an opportunity, and I'm glad that she's competing in Texas.
31:30I am curious to see how much she can mobilize, understanding that she does have a lot of support among women, people over 55, and black and brown communities.
31:41Switching gears, Susan, the president hasn't looked politically strong this week.
31:46Indiana Republicans resisted pressure from Trump to redistrict their state, some even citing the president's threats and insults as the reason.
31:56House Democrats have managed to get Jeffrey Epstein back in the news with a new dump of photographs.
32:03Even his ballroom is facing a legal challenge from the National Trust for history preservation.
32:10Susan, is Trump fast approaching lame duck status, whether he likes it or not?
32:15He's getting there, Rev.
32:17And there was one other thing that kind of flew under the radar, but I found it very interesting,
32:21was the bill that passed in the House with Republicans, because there was Republican support, to protect government workers.
32:29Right.
32:30And why I say that is that people are, always say, oh, it's the primaries, everyone's afraid.
32:37I actually think there's strength in numbers when Republicans want to get together and go against them.
32:42And the more Donald Trump is out of touch, the more Republicans will start doing what they need to do to win in 2026.
32:49Well, Anita, we've seen Trump wriggle his way out of sticky political situations before.
32:57Do you think things are different now?
33:01I do wonder, Rev, whether or not this kind of frustration with Donald Trump is going to sustain itself for the next 11 months, right?
33:09That would be great news for Democrats, especially if they offer up a message of solutions and how people can afford the basic needs of their lives,
33:17whether that's groceries or health care. But I don't know if it's going to stick.
33:21I think you're right. He does have a track record of still, you know, overperforming at some point once people forget,
33:28or he has one big moment or some type of distraction and diversion.
33:32And so that's something I'm going to be watching. Are his approval ratings going to continue to decline?
33:36How are people impacted by his actions related to the economy and how they're sticking up for themselves
33:42and showing up in the tracker polling?
33:46We're following breaking news out of Providence, Rhode Island.
33:49There's been a shooting incident on the Brown University campus, according to two law enforcement sources.
33:56Students are being advised to, by the university, to shelter in place.
34:00No suspect is in custody, and there are reports of additional shots fired.
34:05We'll bring you more information as we get it. We'll be right back.
34:13We're following breaking news out of Providence, Rhode Island.
34:17There's been a shooting incident on the Brown University campus, according to two law enforcement sources.
34:24Students are being advised by the university to shelter in place.
34:29No suspect is in custody, and there are reports of additional shots fired.
34:34Joining me, joining us on the phone is MSNOW investigative reporter Mark Santia.
34:43What do we know as of now, Mark?
34:48Right now we know, according to Brown University, they say the suspect or suspects are not in custody at this time.
34:56According to two law enforcement sources who have been briefed on the situation,
35:00they do confirm that a shooting incident occurred on the campus of Brown.
35:03They tell us up to two people are dead, and 20 others may be injured.
35:09This, I want to caution, this is extremely fluid, and numbers can change.
35:13There's a very active scene there in Providence, Rhode Island right now.
35:17The university right now is telling students to remain away from the Barris and Hawley area.
35:22We do know there's a seven-story building that houses the university's School of Engineering
35:26and the physics department there.
35:28It is unclear if that location was involved, but that's near the area where police and the school are telling people to avoid.
35:36They're saying avoid that entire area.
35:39At this point, there are a lot of questions.
35:41We don't know the ages and the names of the possible folks who are deceased.
35:46We do not have conditions on those people who law enforcement officials say are injured.
35:51We don't know if students are injured, so there's a lot of questions at this time.
35:55We are being cautioned that this situation is extremely fluid.
35:59There are several police officers from multiple agencies.
36:03They're at the scene, working the scene right now.
36:06We're reaching out to the university, reaching out to others.
36:09As you can imagine, there's quite a bit of chaos as they sort of sort through, see who needs medical attention.
36:14What is happening at this point?
36:16We're waiting for updates, but we know at this point, according to two law enforcement sources
36:20who have been briefed on a situation, there has been a shooting incident on the campus of Brown University
36:26in Providence, Rhode Island.
36:27Up to two people are dead.
36:29Twenty others may be injured.
36:31And again, this is very fluid, and numbers could change.
36:34Mark, do we know of any, and if so, how many, have been brought to hospitals yet?
36:43Are hospitals reporting that there are some injured or others that have been brought in so far?
36:51Our MSNOW news desk has been reaching out to area hospitals.
36:55At this point, no word.
36:56As you can imagine, it's a very busy scene.
36:59Hospitals, if they are receiving people at this time.
37:02So we don't have that information.
37:05We just know, according to two law enforcement sources who have been briefed on this situation,
37:10that up to two people are dead, 20 others injured.
37:13And the university is telling students, telling parents that a suspect or suspects not in custody.
37:20They're also telling people to stay away from the area near Barris and Holly.
37:25That is where the University School of Engineering Physics Department is located there.
37:30We don't know if that building played any role in this incident, but students are telling, are being told to stay in place, shelter in place, avoid that area at this time.
37:41And as far as we know, there is no one taken into custody at this point.
37:47And as far as we know, they are confirming, am I correct, that at least two are dead?
37:56You are right.
37:57At this point, the university says that a suspect or they say suspects, no one is in custody at this time.
38:05And two law enforcement officials who have been briefed on the situation are telling us up to two people are dead, several others injured.
38:12But they also caution that this is very fluid.
38:15This is an active scene and numbers could change.
38:19Now, the building that you said they're saying to stay away from, do you have any knowledge of what exactly is done in that building?
38:29Is it by students also has some dormitory space?
38:34I mean, give me an idea of what that building represents.
38:38Yep.
38:38So the building is right there near Barris and Holly area.
38:41We know it's a seven-story building that the University School of Engineering and the Physics Department is there.
38:49Now, it's unclear at this point if that location was involved, but it is near the area where police and the school are telling people to avoid.
38:55Do we know the time that the incident began happening?
39:02We were told it was around 4.30.
39:05We don't have the specifics, but it was around 4.30.
39:08We are told that some students did hear gunfire.
39:11They have confirmed that.
39:13But again, this is a very fluid, active scene there in Providence right now.
39:18All right.
39:19The White House just put out a post from President Trump saying that he's been briefed on the shooting and the FBI is on the scene.
39:29What else can you tell us now that we're here and the FBI is on the scene?
39:33Do you see any visible reinforcements other than the FBI or any other state law enforcement?
39:42Is there a buildup of law enforcement that you can see in the area?
39:47I'm not there right now, but we know from covering these incidents that it's a flood of law enforcement.
39:56It's state, it's local, it's federal agencies, everyone working together.
40:00So obviously with the White House confirming FBI is on scene, the FBI highly trained in these situations,
40:07but to our state, local and even campus police to respond to active shooters,
40:11so many police departments are training for these types of incidents.
40:16And again, because it is so fluid, because it's so chaotic, we are being cautioned that this could develop.
40:23So we're waiting to hear from the university.
40:24If there's a press conference scene, we're waiting for any updates that might come in.
40:28But just knowing that the FBI is there, the FBI will start running information.
40:33They're obviously on scene.
40:35They'll begin working that and sort of setting up that barrier, working the scene.
40:39And again, the university says no suspect or suspects are in custody at this time.
40:44We're hoping for an update shortly.
40:47Now, Mark, help me with this, because it seems to be confusing.
40:52First, we were told someone was in custody.
40:54Now we're being told no one is in custody.
40:57And we don't know if we're talking about one or more people.
41:00What can you tell us is the confirmation at this point?
41:05Is there someone or are there someones in custody?
41:09And have they identified the two that have died, whether they were students or faculty or something else?
41:18So what we know, and again, there is a fog.
41:21This is high stress, high chaos.
41:25So there is a fog.
41:27But right now, the university is saying there is no one in custody.
41:32No suspects, plural, no one in custody.
41:36We do not know the ages.
41:39We don't know anything about those who may be deceased or injured.
41:43We have no information on that right now.
41:45We're being told from two law enforcement officials that up to two people may be deceased.
41:51Up to 20 more may be injured.
41:53We don't know how those injuries occurred.
41:55We don't know the condition of the people injured.
41:58But at this point, we're waiting.
41:59Again, FBI on the scene, federal law enforcement on the scene, as well as state, local police, all working this together.
42:07We're hoping for updates from the university or police very soon.
42:14All right.
42:14Thank you for being with us, Mark.
42:17Santia, many thanks.
42:19And of course, our prayers are with all involved in this situation.
42:24And we will keep you updated here on MS Now.
42:29That does it for me.
42:30Thanks for watching.
42:31I'll see you back here tomorrow at 5 p.m. Eastern.
42:34More coverage on this incident after the break.
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