'Eddington' Interviews With Joaquin Phoenix, Luke Grimes, Michael Ward and Director Ari Aster

Cinema Blend

Joaquin Phoenix, Ari Aster, Luke Grimes and Micheal Ward join CinemaBlend to discuss their new film "Eddington." Ari Aster and Joaquin Phoenix describe their collaborative process, Luke Grimes and Micheal Ward discuss the difficulty of "finding" their characters, and the director shares a look behind the scenes of creating an intentionally divisive film. Joaquin Phoenix also reflects on his method of picking and choosing the directors he works with, and why he is not a fan of watching his own work.

Transcript

00:00I wish I would have done that differently.

00:02It's like that. You can't help but look at all the mistakes that you made.

00:13One thing I actually thought about just comparing this movie to Bo is Afraid

00:17is that both Joe and Bo, they're both afraid.

00:21They both have fear as a primary motivator, but they approach them completely differently.

00:25I'm curious if there was a consistency almost that you saw in Ari Aster's sensibilities

00:29and storytelling with these characters.

00:31I didn't at the time, but I think that you're right.

00:35They both do have this fear.

00:38I don't know that Joe really moves towards confronting that fear.

00:43I think in many ways, one of the central things for him is his relationship with his wife

00:49and something that she may have experienced that he doesn't really want to acknowledge.

00:54And it's more about how we create stories or justify our own behavior and actions to make

01:03us feel that we are confronting or addressing these issues that we're not.

01:08And that's so much of what I think maybe many of us experienced at that time.

01:14So I think that's what I was focusing on, I'm sure.

01:17Well, you know, with Joaquin, there's a lot of talking about the script, going over things,

01:22a lot of rehearsal.

01:23And in this case, you know, as I was rewriting the script, I went around New Mexico, went to

01:30different small towns, different counties.

01:34And I interviewed, interviewed, I talked to sheriffs, police chiefs, mayors, public officials.

01:42I went to Pueblos, you know, I was really trying to get as broad a picture of the politics of

01:50New Mexico, but also just, I was trying to find, like, models for certain characters.

01:56And there's one sheriff in particular that I fell in love with, who struck me as a very

02:03interesting model for that character, for Joe Cross, who Joaquin plays.

02:08And Joaquin met him and loved him, and his wardrobe is based on this guy's wardrobe.

02:13He wears the same clothes.

02:15And that guy showed up to set a couple of times, remember, at the crime scene?

02:21And so, you know, so much of it was actually, you know, about just, same with Michael and

02:27Luke, you know, and you guys spent a lot of time with different police officers.

02:31It was just about, like, really being in the place.

02:36And, you know, New Mexico, I grew up there.

02:38It's a place I know really well, and I've wanted to make a movie about New Mexico for

02:42so long.

02:43And so it's important when you're making a film that's regional in that way to really

02:48be there.

02:50I do want to ask about your collaboration with Emma Stone, because this is your second

02:54time working with her after Irrational Man.

02:55But, I mean, Joe clearly loves Louise, but also he's so impulsive, and he acts just so

03:04quickly without thinking.

03:05I'm kind of hoping you can talk about just developing that dynamic, because obviously

03:09she's also falling down this hole.

03:11It was great that I knew Emma, and I've worked with her before, because she was only on set

03:18for a week or so, and we had to, like, really have a kind of a history and a life together.

03:26But it, I think it came, I mean, I think it wasn't as difficult as I had anticipated in

03:34some ways.

03:35Like, how are we going to have this?

03:36But maybe part of it is because, while they are married and they have this history together,

03:42there's also something in which they feel like they are living in different worlds.

03:47I think that's so much of what Joe is going through, and so many of the characters in this

03:53film are going through, in which they are having these relationships with other people,

03:56but they feel as if they are existing in different worlds.

03:59And that's so much the struggle of what they're experiencing.

04:03It's very new for me, because normally you, like, you figure out who someone is, and then

04:07you figure out what you have to do to get there, right?

04:10And you sort of find out the destination, and then the process is the journey of making

04:15sure I can, like, you know, find myself in those circumstances.

04:19And with this one, I feel like we sort of just let it come organically on its own.

04:25I remember the first time I met with Ari, I kept, you know, asking him, like, who is this

04:29guy?

04:29Who is this guy?

04:30And is it this?

04:31Is it this?

04:32And he was sort of like, I don't, you know, I think you said, I don't want to reduce him

04:35too much.

04:36You know, I don't want this to be like a caricature or, you know, some sort of cliche of what

04:42you think this person is right off the bat.

04:44And so the whole movie, I had no clue who I was playing, but I think the guy doesn't

04:50really know who he is either, and it's sort of worked out somehow.

04:52Sure.

04:52For me, I guess with Michael, it was this constant battle of my instincts versus Michael instincts

05:02of a guy, a black guy growing up in New Mexico, and not just in New Mexico, but a very, very

05:08small town in New Mexico.

05:10Because, like, you know, I know, like, black police officers, well, I know a black police

05:16officer, but he's in New York.

05:17And I remember I spoke to Ari about that, and it's just like, New York is a completely, basically

05:22different world compared to, like, a place like this.

05:25And I didn't really understand that until we got to truthful consequences.

05:29I was like, oh, okay, there's no one here.

05:33Now I know what you mean.

05:35Like, and obviously when you land in New York, it's just like, oh, like, you know, a lot

05:40going on.

05:40So it became more evident to me once I got to the location myself.

05:46And then, you know, being in the location enforced all of the other ideas.

05:50You get what I'm trying to say?

05:51It's not regular for someone like that to grow up in a place like that, and actually

05:56understanding what that does to his psyche and what it does to his, you know, how he

06:01interacts with people and what he believes about the world is a very different thing.

06:06I got a call into the office about a disturbance.

06:09Last night, the family was murdered.

06:12Shooters on charitable ground.

06:13This is a Pueblo case.

06:14This is our crime scene.

06:15Get out of here.

06:16And I mean, as far as kind of the most macro perspective on both Joe and the film, at

06:22what point do you allow yourself to almost kind of recognize their flaws and see them

06:27at like, from an objective perspective?

06:30I mean, from the beginning, but I don't know how objective it is.

06:34Because I think in some ways, it's a part of you.

06:40But hopefully, like there are, I certainly understand, like, and we all have some of these,

06:47some of the most like basic fears and most basic desires and wants for our lives.

06:52And it's just like a human experience.

06:54So I think we can identify with him.

06:56And I think, you know, more often than not, we can probably identify with each other more

07:01than we are at odds with each other.

07:04And part of what this film is, is like taking those brief, small part of ourselves that feels

07:10like it's in conflict with somebody else.

07:12And through this like tech industry and this algorithm, that becomes magnified to where

07:19that becomes the most important thing and the dominant factor and pushes us farther away

07:25from understanding how closely related we are and our kind of basic needs are.

07:32And so that's something I think the film really successfully pulls off and why I was so interested

07:37in making the film.

07:38We knew it was going to be divisive, like it's sort of just, it's about polarization,

07:44it's about division.

07:46And I, you know, we tried to pull back as far as we could to have it be about the environment,

07:53right, where kind of everybody is kind of in one way or another missing part of the picture,

07:59right?

08:00Nobody's acting in bad faith.

08:01Nobody is evil in this movie.

08:03They're just all people acting on their own perspective.

08:06Everybody in the movie cares about the world.

08:09Every character cares about the world, knows that something's wrong, has a feeling that

08:13something's wrong, but they, but, but they all just have, they have different pictures of

08:20what that is.

08:22How can we get here?

08:24And even worse, is it worth it?

08:26At the cost of being at war with your neighbors, that's why I'm running for mayor.

08:36Mayor, I didn't see you.

08:39What is your relationship with your own work?

08:41Like, can you go back and watch your previous performances without judgment?

08:45No.

08:47I mean, no.

08:48Without judgment?

08:48No.

08:49No, of course not.

08:51But I, I, I haven't done that because, yeah, there would be a lot of, a lot of judgment in

08:59that.

08:59And that's very difficult.

09:01But imagine like everything in life, like you, I imagine you look back on relationships

09:05that you've had and you like re-examine them like years later and you go like, fuck, I wish

09:10I would have done that differently.

09:13Um, and so it's, it's like that.

09:15You, you can't help but, but look at something like all the mistakes that, that you made.

09:19So there's not a lot of value.

09:21What ifs, the choices.

09:22Yeah.

09:22Sure, sure.

09:23I'm curious just what your, like, what your process is as far as kind of collaborating with

09:28different filmmakers and what you're looking for in those relationships.

09:31I think in some ways it's, it's very simple with the director for me and that I just want

09:37somebody that, it seems obvious, but just has a really unique vision, right?

09:42That they do something that no one else can do, that you can't replicate what they do.

09:48You can try, but it's never going to be the same, right?

09:51And so I think that's kind of the most important thing for me.

09:54Um, and then can they find something in me that, that I haven't explored before, a different

10:00way that I might have an approach to a character and are they going to find, uh, are they going to

10:04be able to challenge me and elicit something from me?

10:08And then will I be able to be around them for three months and like not hate them?

10:15Like sometimes it really just comes down to like, cause you're spending like hours upon

10:20hours with somebody and you're talking about things that are kind of happening in the world,

10:27but in the world of the film and the world at large and your own personal experiences and

10:31things can get heated and intense and, and also humorous and fun.

10:37And so you go through that, like this really intense condensed period, this relationship

10:44with somebody that's like really intense for three months.

10:47Um, and so you're like, I, I want to remain friends with them and I want to bring out the

10:52best in each other while we challenge each other.

10:53So I think those are, those are kind of what I look at.

10:55Yeah, that's what you need for the collaboration.

10:57That's awesome.

10:57That's right.

10:58And also just like, um, just like if they'll have me, like I'm available and if they'll have

11:03me.

11:03Your pain is not a coincidence.

11:06You are not a coincidence.

11:08We are not a coincidence.

11:09Never the best place.

11:10I'm not the best place.

11:11I'm not the best place.

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