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00:003-3, go ahead.
00:07They are now on a hard shoulder on the northbound, but the collision itself took place in lane 3 at the southbound.
00:15So they were trying to get back across the carriageway and they've been struck.
00:21I'm not a doctor, she has been knocked down by...
00:22Is she the one that speaks English, or the other one?
00:24Yes. The other one, she's gonna run...
00:26Oh, no! Shit!
00:30Oh, Jesus!
00:32Swedish twins, Sabina and Ursula Eriksson, were causing mayhem on the motorway.
00:37Are you gonna see all my organs, you bitch?
00:40They were on some kind of suicidal mission.
00:45Help! Help!
00:48At this point, nobody could have predicted the events that were gonna unfold.
00:52What started as a horrific incident then led to the brutal stabbing of an innocent man.
01:00Why would she stab him? All I know is he was trying to help her.
01:06They said she was suffering from folio deur, which I've never heard of.
01:14Folio deur is a very rare psychiatric condition.
01:18A French term meaning the madness of two. It's almost as if you would consider it being contagious.
01:27Ridiculous. How can someone catch a mental illness of somebody?
01:31On social media, you have people posting their own theories.
01:38And various colourful opinions about what happened took on a life of their own.
01:44I'll tell you what I thought. I thought it was drugs.
01:46It's basically a theory that they were lab rats.
01:48One of the officers described her as having inhuman strength.
01:51Senior officers to the scene, we've got two possible fatals.
01:54After the incident on the M6 where they were running into oncoming traffic and causing mayhem on the motorway.
02:21Help me!
02:23We're keeping everything safe, you know, sir.
02:27Sabina Erickson was convicted and sentenced to one day in custody, which she'd already served.
02:34So she was released from the magistrate's court and sent on her way.
02:42After Sabina was released from the courthouse, she was seen wandering the streets of Fenton.
02:52Sabina Erickson bumps into Glenn Hollinshead and Peter Malloy, who had been drinking at the Royal Oak pub.
03:05As time to go home, started walking up Christchurch Street.
03:10As we were walking up, there was a woman.
03:13She stuck out like a sore thumb in the middle of the street, wearing this big bubble jacket with all her stuff in a plastic bag.
03:24She seemed a little distressed, lost, certainly not very focused.
03:35We started a conversation.
03:36My sister was in hospital and she was trying to find her.
03:41And she said, I need to find her bed and breakfast.
03:45And Glenn said, there's nothing around here for you to stay at.
03:51Come back to mine, we'll have a bite of eating them, try to locate your sister, or find you somewhere to stay.
03:57I can see how somebody with an outside lens looking in on this might think, what on earth would they do that for?
04:11But Stoke-on-Trent's not a big city.
04:14It is a place of working class people, largely, people who take pride in being friendly and approachable and welcoming to everyone.
04:31Glenn, I suppose, was a rebel of the family, but in a nice way.
04:38We grew up in the Air Force as a group of five boys, brothers, and we were very close-knit.
04:44Glenn followed in my father's footsteps.
04:48He joined the Air Force.
04:50He was a medic when he left.
04:54And I went to join Mitchell in making tyres in Stoke-on-Trent.
05:02When he settled in Stoke, it wasn't far from where I live.
05:05He was coming round all the time.
05:07He helped out with my mum.
05:09Yousef fascinated my mother by telling her stories, you know, history stories and stuff.
05:14She could sit there all day listening.
05:16Spent a lot of time together.
05:18We'd come up the house.
05:19We'd have meals.
05:20He loved cooking curry.
05:22It was really hot.
05:24We used to meet up and take the dogs out.
05:28He had a real soft spot.
05:31He would do anything for you.
05:34If he had ten pence and it was his last, he'd give it to you.
05:38It was really good that way.
05:41And if he saw anybody who needed help, he would offer help.
05:45Glenn offered Sabina a place to stay for the night, fed her, made sure she was comfortable and looked after her.
05:57But when they were in the house together, her behaviour was a little alarming.
06:05She seemed quite open and warm, but then in the quiet moments, she was getting quite paranoid and pulling the curtains to one side.
06:18I'm looking out and then quickly just snatching them back.
06:23I responded a little bit unsettled by this.
06:27I'm looking at Glenn for reassurance and he's like, it's all right, it's all right.
06:33Sabina, she'd had a pretty traumatic few days.
06:36She'd been injured on a motorway.
06:39She'd spent time in a police cell.
06:41She'd seen her sister cast off in an air ambulance and she was in a strange country.
06:48These are sort of events which can only feed into somebody's existing paranoia.
06:55If that paranoia is already there.
06:58There was this growing fear inside of me thinking, who is this woman?
07:02She's hiding from someone.
07:06She gets out of the cigarettes and she offers them around to myself and Glenn.
07:10We take one and just as we were about to light up,
07:15she just snatches them quite furiously and says, they might be poisoned, you can't have them.
07:21I was taken by by that, like, what?
07:24Your cigarettes are poisoned?
07:26And this was a pack of cigarettes that she'd been smoking from all night.
07:31This is beyond weird now, something's not right about this woman.
07:35Glenn was, he was quite relaxed and comfortable with it.
07:39I think he was just dismissing it off as quirky.
07:42I personally just wanted to get out of that situation as quickly and as calmly as possible.
07:51Peter was clearly suspicious of Sabina's behavior and left the house.
07:57But Glenn was helping her and Sabina stayed the night.
08:04In 2008, I was working at the Royal Infirmary in Stoke in the A&E department as a nursing assistant.
08:19Which is why Glenn rang me and told me that he's got this Swedish woman at his and told me, you know, she's got...
08:28I'd know where to go, so I'd better stay here.
08:32And she's got a sister who's in the hospital, her in a Peter Carson.
08:38When I rang Glenn back, I said, I've found out that she's been admitted, been operated on, and that's all they can tell me.
08:48And that's what I told Glenn, and I said, if you want to lift up there, I'll give you a lift up there.
08:57Then he'd come back and he said, no, she doesn't want to go.
09:00I said, oh, okay.
09:02Well, if you change your mind, let me know, but I'll give you a lift up.
09:07And that was that.
09:13If I'd have known the story about the M6, I could have warned Glenn that what she's told you isn't what happened.
09:25Yeah, I could have warned him.
09:29She's very dangerous, careful.
09:33After Sabina stayed the night in Glenn's home, people in the local area saw Sabina and saw Glenn in the house or through the window.
09:58And at one point, Glenn gave one of them a thumbs up.
10:01Sabina asked Glenn for a cup of tea.
10:06He was quite sure because he didn't have any tea to give him.
10:10So he went to a neighbour to see if he could borrow a tea bag.
10:13I think I went to fast for some tea bags.
10:17And I said to him, whenever he's washing the van, I'll get you some.
10:21Glenn was just trying to make a cup of tea for Sabina.
10:26That's when everything kicked off.
10:31Neither Glenn or Sabina ever got to drink their cups of tea.
10:35It turns out that Glenn had gone inside the house after speaking with his neighbour.
10:42And using his kitchen knife, Sabina attacked Glenn, stabbed him three times in the chest.
10:55And one time in the throat.
10:57And she stabbed me, she stabbed me.
11:00And they said, yeah, look after me dog.
11:02I said, I'm going to just come in now.
11:05And I said, yeah, I'll look after you dog for you.
11:09Sabina fled the scene at the house and was acting in a very erratic manner.
11:17She had somehow got hold of a hammer.
11:20This good Samaritan stopped and tried to help her.
11:24Well, as we were pulling up to the exit onto the roundabout,
11:27I just glanced and saw a woman in the corner of my eye.
11:31I looked again and saw her smashing herself on the head with a hammer.
11:37I just felt a sickening feeling in my stomach.
11:40And I do remember seeing lots of blood on her head and it was proper tunnel vision.
11:46And I was just completely like zoned in on the hammer.
11:48Just put my hands straight on the hammer and lowered it.
11:51She hit me on the back of the head with something.
11:56The last thing I saw was a run across the roundabout, the road, followed by two paramedics.
12:04The paramedics from Staffordshire Ambulance Service had been called to a stabbing incident.
12:09And the crew, as they were going en route, came across an individual who had been hitting her head with a hammer.
12:16Quite concerned about her safety, the ambulance stopped to try and help.
12:22The paramedics saw Sabina as she then made her way to a high row bridge nearby.
12:31She's got nowhere to go.
12:33So instead of handing herself in, Sabina jumps from the bridge
12:38alongside the road.
12:43The paramedics who were going to the stabbing are now dealing with the scene on the A50.
12:47And when I approached the incident, I was quite surprised it was actually the same lady that we attended to on the motorway.
12:57She jumped a distance from approximately 30 foot onto a hard road surface.
13:12She appeared to have sustained a head injury and also an injury to a leg.
13:19When I approached her, she was actually conscious, but she was quite aggressive, abusive, shouting and screaming.
13:25Very similar to her presentation when I'd come across her on the motorway.
13:30I did an initial assessment of Sabina, determined there was no obvious life-threatening injuries.
13:37The paramedic crew that were on scene were obviously managing her.
13:41And then I was aware of a stabbing incident in the locality.
13:45So I left the scene.
13:57As I approached the scene, there were a number of police officers there.
14:00One of the police officers waved me down and advised me to stop.
14:04And I was basically told that life was extinct.
14:09This was now a crime scene.
14:16I was working at the daily newspaper in Stoke at that time, the Sentinel.
14:24And I found out there'd been a stabbing in Duke Street.
14:29So I travelled to the scene to speak to some neighbours and get some more information about what happened.
14:38They told me Glenn came out of the house severely injured.
14:44He had been stabbed.
14:45He told his neighbour he had been stabbed.
14:48She stabbed me.
14:49She stabbed me.
14:50And then the other day, that was it.
14:54I'd seen everybody die before.
14:59It was a very brutal stabbing of an innocent man in his home.
15:12The day after I'd spoken to Glenn, I went up to the corner shop to get a packet of cigarettes.
15:20On the counter was the Sentinel newspaper.
15:23And I looked and I thought, I recognise that picture.
15:26That's Glenn's house.
15:31It was cordoned off.
15:33And I thought, what's going on here?
15:35And I don't think I even bothered reading it.
15:38So I went back to my car, drove down there, parked up, and the policeman says,
15:45Oi, you can't park there.
15:47You'll have to move that car.
15:49I said, well, your brother lives here.
15:53All right.
15:54Here.
15:55Can you just stay here?
15:57I'll get someone to come and talk to you.
15:59I waited and waited.
16:01No one was coming.
16:02And eventually, they came up to the house.
16:06I had to inform the rest of the family.
16:10You know, it's hard to say to somebody.
16:13You know, your brother's dead.
16:15But it still gets me there.
16:28Still find it hard to talk about.
16:34After I finished work, I was asked by my wife, in an urgent way, to phone Paul, my brother.
16:53He just told me that Glen had died, and then obviously it opens up a whole barrage of questions.
17:06Trying to piece the whole thing together in your mind is pretty difficult, but my whole
17:12focus was being concerned with my mother.
17:17I couldn't tell her, I took it, my neighbour to tell her, I couldn't get the words out.
17:22She couldn't take it in.
17:24She couldn't believe it.
17:26My mum, she just kept saying, what?
17:31Glen's dead?
17:32And I thought, sorry, I'm getting upset now.
17:37Still got to get over that they couldn't bother to inform us.
17:45So I thought the first thing the police did in a thing like that is inform the family,
17:49to read it in the papers wasn't very nice at all.
17:56In the immediate aftermath of the stabbing, it was a very confusing picture.
18:04We were trying to piece together.
18:08It's a shocking moment when you realise the relationship between the M6 and the stabbing and the A50.
18:15Nothing's gonna happen to you, do you?
18:17Fucking hell!
18:18Calm down, calm down, calm down, calm down.
18:21After she jumped onto the A50, she was transported to the emergency department at Royal Stoke University Hospital.
18:29With a head injury and quite significant leg injuries, she appeared to have sustained an ankle fracture.
18:40While Sabine Erickson was in hospital, she was arrested for the murder of Glen Hollinshead.
18:46In 2008, I was instructed by the Staffordshire branch of the Crown Prosecution Service
19:05to prosecute Sabine Erickson for the murder of Glen Hollinshead.
19:14After Sabine jumped off the bridge, she remained in hospital until the 11th of September of 2008,
19:24receiving treatment for her serious leg injuries and a wound to the abdomen.
19:34And the doctor who examined her formed the view that the wound had been caused by a sharp object such as a knife.
19:47So this raised the possibility that Sabine had been stabbed.
19:51The question then was, by whom?
19:56Was it by Glen Hollinshead?
19:58Glen Hollinshead?
20:02Glen Tended to be a little bit rebellious.
20:06I would say he did not like authority.
20:09He was always looking for direction.
20:12He tended not to have a clear purpose in life.
20:16He was focused on drinking.
20:18He used to drink a lot, he always has.
20:20he always has at one point he did lose his way so i don't know what it was with his smoking
20:32you know he was asking to more money and stuff like that and i got to the point where i said
20:37i can't do this anymore end off you know and uh then he went on a methadone program
20:45now i used to say to glenn be careful and play with because he had some
20:53characters in his life that i wouldn't have entertained but that was his nature
21:05it was irrefutable that sabina erickson's hand had held the knife with which glenn
21:14holling's head had been stabbed but did she act in self-defense what was her state of mind at the
21:23time the stabbing took place the defense indicated that they would instruct a psychiatrist to examine
21:35sabina they said she was suffering from polyoderm and apparently it's a condition where you can
21:44catch a mental illness of somebody you know can someone catch a mental illness
21:49in the days and weeks leading up to the trial i looked through all the evidence and one of the
22:08extraordinary features of the case was in relation to the incident on the m6
22:19here was an example of quite extraordinarily bizarre behavior
22:24by sabina and ursula erickson oh i recognize you i know you're not real stay still for me stay
22:33still because you're hurt come on come back
22:42understandably there were suspicions that the twins had been high on drugs or under the influence of
22:50something yeah of course yeah jesus christ i watched her go under the arctic yeah she ran off from us
23:01they're both they're both high yeah very the other ones just fought us
23:09both sabina and ursula provided blood samples
23:14and in both their cases the samples were negative for the presence of drugs both lawful and unlawful
23:24and for alcohol it's going to be a big investigation about this
23:28where are you from are they irish swedish swedish
23:32the two five one over six off the camera stop stop it
23:36you're a fucking asshole calm down
23:38you're a fucking bitch you are yeah i'm gonna make sure i don't want to work
23:43fuck you guys fuck you
23:51three days later sabina jumped from the parapet of the a50
23:56again she was negative for drugs and alcohol her behavior was bizarre
24:07so it was inevitable sabina erickson's mental state at the time of the killing might well be an issue
24:17in the case the defense instruct a psychiatrist to examine sabina
24:26it's absolutely usual if a defendant produces a report that the prosecution will also obtain a report
24:34in 2009 i was instructed as a consultant psychiatrist to prepare a forensic psychiatric report
24:46in the case of sabina erickson do you suffer any mental health problems or from depression
24:53the defense expert felt sabina was in fact suffering from a serious mental health issue
25:13and that sabina erickson's behavior was due to the presence and the influence of her sister
25:23and their diagnosis was folio due a french term meaning the madness of two folio due is a very rare
25:35psychiatric condition typically it happens when the two people involved spend quite possible time
25:42together and are highly isolated one person would have what we call the primary diagnosis of a true
25:51mental illness and then because of their intimacy they could convince that other person to think
25:59just as they were thinking it's almost as if you would consider it being contagious
26:06in the case of these sisters there was an indication that ursula was the primary patient
26:14in the case of these sisters there was an indication that there was an indication that there was a
26:17very convenient diagnosis of what was going on between sabina and the sister
26:24no i i i i don't believe there's any any woo-woo type mysticism where one girl is transferring her
26:32thoughts to another girl even though twins are very close please check out how it is please with my sister
26:39okay no problem all right there's now quite a lot of evidence which shows that folio due does happen
26:50because it's been recorded it's possible for two people to show the same delusion but it's extremely rare
26:58and that's what makes this case very interesting
27:01there were two diagnoses one by each of the medical experts i wanted to meet with miss erickson
27:13i'm curious to know what was happening in the weeks days hours and even in the minute leading up to the
27:22event because prior to meeting with her sister there was no evidence of any previous issue with mental health
27:42her mother was believed to have challenges of her own
27:48conversations with people who grew up with the twins in sweden have revealed what their childhoods were
27:53like the twins grew up with an older brother and sister
28:02their fathers disabled with only one arm and had problems with alcohol
28:06their mother was believed to have challenges of her own
28:15the children were generally left to their own devices
28:18school friends remember ursula having a cleft palate that disfigured and scarred her entire face from the
28:23forehead down and was bullied for her disfigurement the twins had an extremely close relationship with
28:31each other but didn't spend time with other friends sabina and ursula decided they would have a better life if they left sweden
28:43there are so many unanswered questions around this case
28:49when they arrived in liverpool they spoke to police to raise some concerns about the safety of sabine's
28:56children's sons police we understand at that stage actually made contact with her partner back in cork
29:05and discovered that he was concerned for sabine's whereabouts for her safety and there was nothing to
29:13cause alarm with their two sons but why did they travel to liverpool
29:18why were they so worried about sabine's children's safety back in ireland
29:28when they stopped at keel services why would they not put their bags back in the hold of the coach
29:35why were they both trying to run in front of traffic on the m6 yeah we need mike alpha we need the lot
29:47here now stay there it's okay see your breathing what was causing this extreme behavior
29:58and indeed the day after the questions continued it's inevitable when people are interested in
30:09something their minds try and piece together the the confusion of it all today's podcast we are going
30:18to delve deep into the story and the crimes of sisters ursula and sabina ericsson oh my god this case
30:26it's giving me a headache i think the case of sabina and ursula ericsson has captured people's
30:31imagination in part because of the lack of official information that's available to the public and
30:36where information is missing conspiracy theorists will rush in once the news coverage of this story
30:43caught the interest of social media it just snowballed and various colorful opinions about what happened
30:50took on a life of their own so let's quickly talk about some theories shall we tell you what i've
30:56thought i thought it was drugs conspiracy theories suggest sabina and ursula had either taken or been
31:01given pcp it is an illegal drug that can cause hallucinations paranoia and the belief that one has
31:07superhuman strength often pcp is laced in cigarettes so this theory definitely seemed plausible because it
31:14could explain why sabina was concerned about glenn and peter smoking her cigarettes however pcp is one of
31:21the drugs the police test for so this isn't something that would have been missed during their examination
31:28one of the isu's guys said they're on a coach whether they've just come in we don't know but
31:32they're very protective of the bags i wouldn't let the coach drive put them down below and he says with
31:36the way they're acting could they be mewling there was also a theory that the twins were drug smugglers
31:42the reason for this theory is just the way that they were kind of acting with their bags on the coach how
31:47they were like clutching them and just acting really weird and the twins had multiple mobile phones
31:52with them that could support the fact that they were drug smugglers there were no drugs found in their
31:58system and no drugs or drug paraphernalia found in their backs there are theories out there but we can't
32:07prove any of this it is purely speculation what on earth happened in glenn holland's head's house
32:26i made an appointment to meet with miss erickson
32:30i felt that i did not have enough information to do a comprehensive diagnosis
32:44prior to what had happened to mr holland's head it seemed that she was having persecutory delusions
32:54hearing voices thought that she was in danger and this was made clear to her by ursula
33:04and that is when she was convinced that they needed to seek refuge
33:14apparently they were walking down central asia kissing
33:16they considered escaping together one way or the other like a pact
33:28what was said to me by miss erickson was that they were both convinced that they had to act in this way
33:37and that by dying together that would be one way of escaping whatever perceived danger that they had
33:46imagined
34:01after the incident it appeared that sabina continued suffering from a paranoid delusion thinking that
34:09someone is out to harm her when mr holland's head went out to speak to his neighbor
34:19it is possible that she might have felt they were plotting in some way
34:27if she was having persecutory delusions it would give her a sense of fear
34:32a feeling that she needed to escape to protect herself and also to protect her sister
34:44i was able to understand more about what her life was like
34:52sabina and her sister ursula they led a fairly frugal existence in sweden
34:59and there was some insinuation of difficulties within the household
35:10although there was no overt sign of mental health difficulties
35:16so being there both had a shared traumatic childhood we know now that people who've had some type of
35:27adverse experience particularly some kind of trauma in their childhood are much more likely than
35:34other people to develop a form of severe mental illness some form of psychosis or another
35:38the defense believed that it was polyodeur but in my opinion she was suffering from acute polymorphic psychotic disorder
35:58in the end it did not matter who made what diagnosis
36:15in the end it did not matter who made what diagnosis
36:27the important thing was whether we felt that she was operating under the influence of a mental disorder
36:36at the time of the incident the conclusions of both experts were the same
36:43dr mcdaniel's report was only available at lunchtime on the day that the trial was due to commence
37:00we discovered that she too had come to the conclusion that savina's responsibility was substantially
37:08diminished by her mental state at the time of the killing we would accept the plea
37:17only if any suggestion of self-defense was abandoned right stay with me
37:26i can't see any reason why glenn would stab her i don't think you're going to make someone a cup
37:32but he then just stood around and stabbed them if glenn had seen sabina trying to harm herself
37:40in any way he would try to prevent it so he is he wouldn't just stand there and watch
37:47calm down calm down sabina for whatever reason was quite happy to place herself at serious risk of harm
37:57and when anybody tried to stop her she was prepared to resist violently it seemed to me that the
38:11overwhelmingly probable inference was that sabina was in the process of using the knife to injure herself
38:20when glenn hollingshead came back into his house that he tried to stop her and that she took possession of the knife and stabbed him
38:34the defense considered their position overnight
38:50and then finally there was the trial we were there as brothers waiting to see what was going to happen
39:07sabina's change of plea made headlines and i remember it being reported prominently on bbc news
39:15tonight a swedish woman who ran into the path of oncoming traffic on the m6 motorway and later killed a
39:22man has pleaded guilty to manslaughter
39:32the judge sentenced sabina to five years minus the time she had served on remand
39:37i was disappointed with the sentence that was passed down but i didn't think it would bring glenn back
39:47no matter how long she got in prison
39:51in my eyes it should have been preventable after what she gone through on the m6
40:11being knocked unconscious then waking up and fighting with police people trying to run into other traffic on
40:18the other side of the m6 now to me that is not normal behavior and there was a mention of 136
40:29where you put under the mental health act
40:33well 136 if she is well she needs to be for nothing else for going on the carriageway and uh for her own
40:38safety one of the policemen that was there said that she should be sectioned
40:45they could have kept her under observation they could have brought in psychologists psychiatrists
40:51i don't hold sabina responsible although she physically was responsible for my brother's death
40:57i think that the police are far more culpable sabina i don't have any malice against
41:04in the case of miss erickson she showed intermittent signs of psychosis
41:17sabrina come and sit in the car there were times when she acted bizarrely and there were times when
41:24she acted normally what job are you doing oh i just find found a crappy job but because of the fluctuating
41:33nature of the illness then things sort of slipped through the net
41:37the police had no way of telling exactly what was gonna happen next i think in the moment they
41:52probably thought they were doing the right thing by sabina
41:56but there are lessons to be learned from this
42:17you
42:19i think the world has moved on in terms of our understanding of mental health conditions and our
42:35awareness of it we need to foster a better understanding of what these disorders are
42:49and the fact that there's not two species of people the same and the insane but that we're all to some
42:56extent on that spectrum and the earlier we can intervene the sooner we can get to people who
43:03are developing psychotic symptoms then the more likely we are to be able to prevent the tragic deaths
43:10of people like glenn holinshead my mother was never the same glenn i think was the apple of her eye
43:22it broke her heart and she ended up falling apart i still picture him laughing joking with me
43:30it yeah yeah i miss him oh god do i ever i miss him
43:45oh god do i ever i miss him
43:51oh
43:54oh
43:56oh
43:58oh
44:02oh
44:04oh
44:06oh
44:08oh
44:10oh
44:14oh
44:29oh
44:31oh
44:33oh
44:35oh
44:37oh
44:39oh
44:46if you or someone you know has been affected by any of the issues raised in tonight's program please
44:51go to channel 5.com slash helplines for information and support is a long-lost daughter really who she
44:58said she is kim marsh stars in the imposter for our new drama starting next monday at nine
45:04next tonight police interceptors
45:15you
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