Georgia's President Mikheil Kavelashvili talks to DW's Juri Rescheto in Tbilisi on Russia, stalled EU talks, protests and criticism of his 2024 election.
00:00Relations between Georgia and the European Union are at a standstill.
00:05A year after the parliamentary elections, protests continue against what many here see as a pro-Russian government.
00:12In just a moment I'll be speaking with Georgian President Mikhail Kavalashvili right here in Belize to get his take on where the country is headed.
00:21Thanks so much for taking the time to talk with DW.
00:27When I was here last year during the 2024 parliamentary elections, Tbilisi was full of blue flags.
00:35Everyone seemed pro-Europe. All the parties were campaigning for the EU and Georgia's European path.
00:42Then your government put accession talks on hold because the EU didn't recognize the election results.
00:50And now those talks are still frozen.
00:53So what's the plan? Do you still want to join the EU?
00:59Talking about parliamentary elections of 2024, from my point of view, and I've been in politics for the last 10 years,
01:07compared to all previous ones, the most recent elections went better than any before, without any violations.
01:17I can confirm that the recent elections were consistent with previous electoral outcomes, with the ruling Georgian Dream Party receiving a comparable level of support.
01:29Georgian Dream was the outright leader in the recent elections.
01:33Georgian Dream received just as many votes as it did in the previous elections.
01:37Electoral support for the Georgian Dream Party typically ranges from 1 to 1.2 million votes.
01:44Regrettably, the former president, Surabeshwili, chose not to wait for the Central Election Commission's official announcement of the 2024 election results,
02:00and denied the legitimacy of the elections.
02:08At all major gatherings of Georgian Dream supporters, there was a significant presence of EU flags, as there has consistently been over the years.
02:22The Georgian Dream government never refused to join the EU.
02:36Polls show about 80% of Georgians still want to join the EU. That's a huge majority.
02:42As Georgia's head of state, what concrete steps are you taking to turn that dream of a European future into reality?
02:51Unfortunately, support for this has decreased, whichever way you look at it.
03:05So if 80% of the population support joining the EU, and 60% of the population support the Georgian Dream, what does that mean?
03:20It turns out that the majority of the population support both EU membership and the Georgian Dream.
03:34So where's the difference between these two facts?
03:40I've heard people in the government camps say Georgia is a conservative country and doesn't share some of the EU's liberal values.
03:54Things like minority rights, for example, aren't always well accepted here.
04:00Georgia is Christian and sticks to traditional family models. Is that really the case?
04:06The Constitution, which was adopted by the Georgian Dream, clearly formulates our rights and values.
04:20The Constitution of Germany served as inspiration for us. We are proud of our Constitution.
04:26It clearly guarantees the rights of all citizens, including minorities.
04:36Discrimination in any form is unacceptable. A significant part of European values is rooted in Christian teachings and doctrines.
04:52The ruling party recognizes marriage only as a union between a man and a woman.
04:56Georgians see themselves as part of Europe.
04:58This is precisely why Georgia aspires to be a part of the European Union.
05:04We must make a clear distinction between European bureaucrats and core European values, which are rooted in Christian principles and traditional values.
05:16The ruling party recognizes marriage only as a union between a man and a woman.
05:22Our policy is based on the protection of traditional values and on ensuring that the younger generation is protected from LGBT-related promotional influences.
05:37Let's talk about freedom of expression. What does it say about free speech in Georgia when three major opposition parties are close to be banned?
05:46Parliament has already passed it and now it's up to the Supreme Court.
05:52There's much evidence of crimes committed by the previous government.
06:06We were obligated to uncover this criminal evidence,
06:12to establish their full extent in accordance with all legal standards,
06:19and to ensure that those responsible are brought to justice.
06:33Yeah, but if some individuals break the law, why should entire parties be banned?
06:39Unfortunately, that's not the question for me to answer.
06:44There were open hearings in Parliament on this matter.
06:48At the UN assembly in New York, you talked about Georgia's history as a constant fight against invaders.
07:04We know Russia was at war with Georgia in 28 and still occupies parts of your territory.
07:13But critics say your government is too close to Moscow in its policies, in Parliament, even in the laws it's passing.
07:23Things like the law against so-called LGBTQ propaganda, the planned ban on political parties, the foreign agents' law.
07:35All of that looks a lot like what's happening in Russia.
07:39What do you say to those critics?
07:42There's nothing, no facts that prove that we have any sort of connection with the Russian government.
07:57Of course we think about the territories that we consider lost temporarily, the people that still live there.
08:07We consider them our brothers and sisters.
08:12As I also mentioned at the UN assembly, the ruling party has promised that a time will come when we will live together in a United State.
08:27We will continue to develop, we will take care of each other, as we used to.
08:37The whole world is motivated to stop Russia.
08:41How do you think we can get our territories back if our dealings with Russia are aggressive?
08:49Is there any other way we can bring back our territories?
08:54We are not a NATO member.
08:57NATO rejected us.
08:59We are also not a member of the EU.
09:02If you look closer, our policy, the policy of our government, is based on pragmatic, balanced and realistic models.
09:12There was a time when we were left with no support and our policies are born out of that sad experience.
09:20Our policies are based on our national interests.
09:28Among those 80% who support joining the EU, a lot of people are out there right now in front of parliament, day and night, even in the cold, protesting?
09:40Protesting against what?
09:42Against the government and its anti-European policies.
09:45Do you understand where they are coming from?
09:47And if you met them face to face, what would you say?
09:51Those people, mostly youngsters, they are under external influence and are deceived.
10:04We are based on facts.
10:09Everything I have told you is based on facts.
10:14Behind this protest is a force which has no interest in close relations between the Georgian Dream government and the EU member states.
10:33These forces are deliberately influenced and artificially orchestrated.
10:41None of their actions are directed towards the welfare of citizens.
10:47They are mostly paid groups from abroad with their front figures.
10:53What are they fighting for?
10:54What are they fighting for?
10:56Do you know what they are fighting for?
10:58Juri, can you answer me?
11:02Okay, last question.
11:07How long do you think it will take for Georgia to actually join the EU?
11:12In the first place, the EU must change its attitude towards Georgia, starting with the media.
11:25For sure, all media sources are different, but if you want Georgia to become an EU member state, the attitude must change.
11:37All the way from the EU bureaucrats to the members of the European Parliament.
11:47Let me give you some facts.
11:54The protests started when the so-called foreign agents law was passed.
12:00I was the founding father of that foreign agents law.
12:04The initiative came from my party.
12:07The law is about transparency.
12:09The law demands a full declaration of the finances of NGOs if 20% of their budget comes from abroad.
12:19NGOs are obliged to show all their documentation and be transparent about their spending.
12:25There's nothing more to it than that.
12:30We joined all the sanctions we could, except for those which would go against our national interests and economic situation.
12:38We supported all UN resolutions concerning the war in Ukraine.
12:42We have not sent any volunteers to Ukraine so as not to be accused of participating in the war.
12:48Georgia has not gained EU candidate status, although we were and still should be leading candidates.
13:03By 2030, Georgia will be ready to join the EU.
13:11But right now, we don't know whether the EU's view will change or stay the same.
13:23They are applying double standards.
13:26Dialogue is key, but they are not engaging in dialogue with us.
13:31Sometimes they recognize this government and sometimes they don't.
13:35It's absurd.
13:41We just wanted to have a dialogue.
13:43Thank you for talking with us, Mr. President.
Be the first to comment