What does balanced leadership really look like in today’s world?
At the recent forum session at KLGCC Mall, Sinar Daily brings together three dynamic voices - Content Creator Alana Dunsmore, Cuura Malaysia Sdn Bhd Director Sarah Shah Nor and iCare Dental Founder Dr Ibrahim Shahruddin to unpack the realities of leading with empathy, mental wellness and gender understanding.
From burnout and stigma to unconscious bias and the pressures carried by both men and women, the conversation dives deep into how gender expectations shape our workplaces and our wellbeing.
This is not just a leadership talk - it’s a reminder that balance begins with awareness, and real change begins with us.
#TheGenderEquation #LeadingThroughBalance #SinarDaily #LeadershipTalk #WomenInLeadership #MenInLeadership #GenderBalance #KLGCCMall
At the recent forum session at KLGCC Mall, Sinar Daily brings together three dynamic voices - Content Creator Alana Dunsmore, Cuura Malaysia Sdn Bhd Director Sarah Shah Nor and iCare Dental Founder Dr Ibrahim Shahruddin to unpack the realities of leading with empathy, mental wellness and gender understanding.
From burnout and stigma to unconscious bias and the pressures carried by both men and women, the conversation dives deep into how gender expectations shape our workplaces and our wellbeing.
This is not just a leadership talk - it’s a reminder that balance begins with awareness, and real change begins with us.
#TheGenderEquation #LeadingThroughBalance #SinarDaily #LeadershipTalk #WomenInLeadership #MenInLeadership #GenderBalance #KLGCCMall
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LifestyleTranscript
00:00All right, all right. Welcome, ladies and gentlemen, to a collaboration like no other.
00:06We have an amazing, amazing lineup of panelists up with me on stage today.
00:11We will be talking a little bit about the gender equation, how we're going to leap through balance through Sinar Daily's live panel discussion right here at KLGCC Mall,
00:20the newest and the hottest mall in town, as I've heard, in the heart of this luxurious township.
00:25If you are just passing by and you're wondering what is going on here, take a seat, come join us in this discussion for the next hour.
00:32So this edition brought to you by Sinar Daily, Saim Darby Property, as well as Girls4Girls Malaysia is going to be extra special
00:39because we're celebrating Movember, which is a month dedicated to men's mental health,
00:45since many may say that men's mental health may be overlooked.
00:48And there are statistics that do show for it as well.
00:52One in ten men suffer from mental health or some form of mental illness,
00:58yet less than half of them actually receive some form of treatment.
01:02So we're really here to make sure and talk about this.
01:06And it's a perfect time to talk and really dissect a little deeper into how both men and women can have a good relationship
01:13and can really work together to create more effective, more empathetic, and just a better and healthier and stronger leader,
01:20not just within the workforce or even beyond that.
01:23So today we're joined by a dynamic and powerful lineup here.
01:26I'm just going to go one by one.
01:28We have Elena Dunsmore right next to me here.
01:31Elena is a content creator.
01:32Give her a round of applause if we can, everyone.
01:34Elena is a content creator.
01:38She's a student.
01:39She's a wife to Abbas Mahmood as well.
01:41So Abbas is in the crowd with us.
01:42There he is.
01:43All right.
01:44Just having a loving, loving husband here.
01:47And she also owns her own business.
01:49So you run Goldie's, as I've heard, which is a traditional Scottish treat,
01:52bringing her culture here to a new home in Malaysia.
01:56Thank you so much for joining us, Elena.
01:58Now we have at the very far end there, we have Sarah.
02:00Sarah Shanor.
02:01She is the director of an all-natural skincare line, Cura.
02:05Most of you have heard of it.
02:06Give a round of applause if we can to Sarah.
02:10Now, if you didn't know, Cura is actually the first Malaysian beauty brand
02:13to carry halal certification on all its products.
02:16And she was also the brains of Maud Vierre, which is a multi-label modest fashion brand.
02:22So not only that, but of course, Sarah is a doting, loving mom and a wife dedicated to
02:28uplifting women and building a community of success around her.
02:32Now, last but certainly not least, we have a male, the only male on this stage right now.
02:37We have Dr. Ibrahim Shahruddin.
02:39Can we give a round of applause for our male ally here?
02:43Now, Dr. Ibrahim is the managing director at Eye Care Dental Clinic in Damansara Heights.
02:48He is also the vice president of the Malaysian Association of the Aesthetic Densistry.
02:53Now, it's also worth mentioning that since it's befitting the topic, Dr. Ibrahim is married
02:59to renowned fashion designer Fuzana Mautazar.
03:01She's in the crowd right here as well.
03:03There she is.
03:04All right.
03:05And he's, and Dr. Ibrahim is also a proud girl dad to three loving daughters who are also
03:11in the crowd here today.
03:14All right.
03:15Without wasting too much time, we're just going to dive right into this topic.
03:18So this panel will break it down into multiple blocks or multiple parts, namely three parts.
03:23The first part that we're going to look into is really talking about the mind behind healthy
03:28and effective leadership.
03:29The reason why I want to talk about this is because all great leadership stems from that
03:34first thing, which is your own mind and your mindset to things.
03:37In today's fast pace, high stakes workplace, there's a lot of burnout, a lot of stress, a
03:42lot of emotional fatigue, and this doesn't discriminate gender.
03:44It happens to both men and women, though it manifests differently and looks differently for
03:48both genders here.
03:50But what's important is not the stress and the fatigue that comes with it, but it's really
03:55how you respond, how you interact, and how you react to such emotional distress that you
04:00face, especially as an entrepreneur, as a leader, right?
04:03So the first question really just is going to touch a little bit on leadership burnout,
04:06because again, this happens to both men and women, though it looks a little different.
04:10It manifests a little differently for both genders.
04:12Just going into it straight away, from your experiences here, how do you think burnout
04:20manifests differently across, I guess, in your context as a woman or as a man?
04:25I think let's go with Elena first and see what you have to say about that.
04:29Yeah.
04:29I mean, I feel like for myself, assalamu alaykum, everyone, by the way, I'm Alana.
04:36So for myself, burnout definitely looks like I am just slowing down.
04:42I am no longer being as productive as I should be.
04:46Maybe a little bit of doom scrolling sprinkled in there.
04:49And that's the moment where I have to check myself.
04:52Gosh, Alana, what is the point to keep pushing through this when you're not even being productive
04:57anymore? So for me, I don't have a set day off in my schedule, in my week, because my week is so
05:06flexible and like content creation never stops.
05:09I'm sure we're all aware.
05:11So when I start to feel those signs, those symptoms, Alana, you're not being productive
05:16anymore. That's when I've got to take a step back.
05:19You've got to turn off that iPhone for a second and you've really got to check yourself.
05:25OK, what do I want to do today?
05:27Rather than what does my job require for me to do today?
05:31Because I could just keep working 24-7, just keep grinding, keep grinding.
05:35Oh, I'm young.
05:35I can keep going.
05:36Guys, like my mom always tells me, that's not the honest truth.
05:40You will just burn out eventually.
05:42One quote my mom always tells me is you cannot burn your candle at both ends.
05:46She always tells me that.
05:48And I learned the hard way.
05:49So on those days, I've got to sit down, check myself, go for a little match with my husband
05:55and get away from the phone for a while.
05:58I love to hear.
05:59And that's actually a very resonating advice that your mother has given as well, that you
06:03cannot just keep burning out and candle on both ends.
06:06Now, I'd just like to just direct this into a more gender-specific lens given our topic
06:11for today, right?
06:13Burnout can happen, again, like we mentioned, in different ways for both genders.
06:17For men, typically when we talk about emotional fatigue or burnout, it tends to be dismissed
06:22under the stigma that men should be strong or stoic.
06:25Whereas for women, when burnout happens and it's a bit more expressive, women are labeled
06:30too emotional.
06:31So I'm just curious, going to Dr. Ibrahim here, how do we then begin to break these stereotypes
06:36for both ends?
06:37So it's not like one is better than the other, definitely not.
06:40But how do we begin to break these stereotypes for both men and women in tackling burnout,
06:45tackling stress, especially as leaders?
06:47Okay, hi.
06:48Assalamualaikum, I'm Dr. Ibrahim.
06:50Thank you, Sina Daly, for having me here.
06:51Okay, being a, let's start as, before I go to the gender roles, being a dentist is actually
07:01a very stressful job.
07:05It's actually scientifically proven top three to be the most suicidal job or high stress
07:11or something.
07:12So, well, because you deal with meticulous things, you know, you deal in everything in micro.
07:19So everything needed to be perfect in a way.
07:24And, you know, lawsuit is like at the back of your head.
07:28You know, if you do things wrong, then, you know, you're dealing with people's health.
07:31So everything is at, you know, very, at a high stake.
07:36So basically, and then it doesn't help when a patient come and, you know, the first thing
07:41that they say is, I hate dentists.
07:44Right.
07:45I mean, who here does not like dentists?
07:47Who here doesn't like dentists?
07:48I mean, if I'm not a dentist, I would, if I'm not a dentist, I wouldn't like myself as
07:52well.
07:54But it is what it is.
07:56I'm into this, right?
07:57So, so it is a very stressful job.
08:01You know, it is sometimes it's very easy for you to become burnout.
08:05And like you say, as men, you, you always internalize it because you don't, you don't
08:12show that, you know, it's, you don't show your sign of weakness as men.
08:16And so when that happened, I think the first thing that we need to do is we need to be
08:21aware of it.
08:22Okay.
08:22So if any of the answer that I might say today is, is being aware of the burnout signs, be
08:31aware of your mental status and, and, and the state, the, the, the stress level, if you
08:37feel that it's already, you know, getting there, you, you do what you do, you know, I mean,
08:43it's easy for me to go back to a beautiful house with my wife and three girls, you know,
08:49it's sort of like straightaway brings your, brings your, you know, mind out of it.
08:54But you, you, you find your happiness in life.
08:57And, but the first thing you need to be aware of it, if you don't aware of it, then you'll,
09:03you'll start to be consumed in all this stress and burnout.
09:07Yep.
09:08That's very, very key.
09:09So awareness is that first step, that first sign of really breaking that stereotype, breaking
09:14that, that, I guess, self-indulgent of being so consumed and stress and anxiety and everything.
09:20That's really, really a well put out response.
09:23Now, Sarah, do you agree with that?
09:24And I guess in your perspective as a woman as well, on the other side of things where
09:27women are often deemed too emotional when we, I guess, express a little bit of, or show
09:33a bit of a small sign of discontentment or stress, right?
09:36How do you think we can break this stereotype, especially as a leader?
09:40Hi, sorry, my name is Sarah.
09:44Thank you, Sinar, also for having me.
09:46So I think, I mean, in my context, because I work together with my husband, so I see him
09:52dealing with, you know, like stress or anxiety differently.
09:56When I ask him, you look so chill.
09:58And he's like, you know, no, I'm actually stressed inside.
10:01So it's like, really?
10:02But you're like YOLO, whatever.
10:04So he's like, no, but I, I'm always the kind of person who's like, I can't deal
10:08with this anymore.
10:09I resign.
10:11So I think.
10:11Very relatable.
10:12Very relatable.
10:13I know, right?
10:14So I think men and women are quite different.
10:16I think men, they deal with it silently.
10:19I don't know, but my men does that.
10:21Are you like that, doctor?
10:23Or are you more emotional?
10:26I'll ask Fouza that afterwards.
10:28But I think because women, you know, you have to deal with a lot of things.
10:32You have to multitask a lot of things.
10:34I'm not just a businesswoman.
10:35I'm also a mother.
10:36I'm a wife.
10:37So, you know, it's, it's all the noise.
10:39But I learned that, I learned that the hard way.
10:42It's, you can't be a superhero, especially to everyone.
10:46You know, you can't take up all, all the responsibilities and think you can do it all.
10:50So you have to know when you have to delegate, although you don't want to.
10:55I love to micromanage because I want to do everything.
10:58I want to make sure that every single staff is doing what.
11:00But, but I think at the end of the day, it's pointless and you just have to know when the balance has to come.
11:06So, you know, you have to also, I mean, they want to see you also like a leader, but also someone who knows how to balance yourself.
11:15You know, they don't want to, the, the hustle culture, I think it doesn't work anymore for me.
11:21Yeah.
11:22Well, thank you for sharing that.
11:23I think those are very, very strong, strong words that resonate, especially for someone of your backing as a founder, as a leader, to hear that the hustle culture is not sustainable, especially as a leader.
11:35You need to have that balance.
11:36There's that balance, right?
11:37And I think just having that balance and also just have, having to admit that comes from a place of vulnerability or a place of self-awareness that, correct me if I'm wrong, for all of you here, it's, it's hard to achieve to some extent.
11:51It's hard to admit that we cannot do it all and we cannot have it all without, in a way, going insane, right?
11:56To put it very crudely.
11:57So I guess just to segue into the next question would be, how can we then reframe vulnerability or self-awareness as a strength rather than something that is seen as a weakness, especially talking about, again, a leadership context, right?
12:11We often think that we have to be strong.
12:13We have to put on a strong face.
12:15We have to be that person for our team, not just for yourself, but for your team, right?
12:19So having that level of vulnerability is something that is easier said than done.
12:23So how do we then reframe vulnerability as something good or something strong rather than a weakness?
12:27So maybe, Alina, would you like to take that on first?
12:31Yeah, I think when it comes to vulnerability, for example, for me, I feel like you can be honest and you can be somewhat vulnerable and still a leader.
12:44You know, you can actually try and do it all.
12:46For example, you know, when you're leading your team, you want to be careful with your words enough that you're getting the truth across, but you don't want to seem, you know, too moany or too, you know, all these kind of negative things.
13:03So I suppose it's how much vulnerability you're willing to share with your team, if that's the context, and honesty as well.
13:13So for me, I feel like honesty is great.
13:15You know, I'm thinking about my own team.
13:17You've got to be honest with what you expect from them, what they can deliver, and you can be a little bit vulnerable with them and still be a good leader.
13:25So, yeah, it's up to you where you can find that balance, I suppose, because everyone will be different.
13:30That's just life, isn't it?
13:31There's no, like, one box can fit all.
13:34It's really up to you and your dynamic with your team as well.
13:38I love that response.
13:39So I think one keyword that I keep hearing from all three of you is balance, awareness, and also balance, right?
13:44So just to, I guess, reaffirm this pattern and this theme, Dr. Ibrahim, would you say balance is the main theme in describing or defining what a mentally healthy leader looks like today?
13:58Or how would you describe what a mentally healthy leader is to you?
14:02It's interesting now that leadership, I think, personally, I think leadership has changed in this era.
14:13We are living in this era where leadership is not just about numbers and results anymore.
14:19It's more about value-driven.
14:21So, like, for example, Momdani just won mayor of New York.
14:28I mean, the other party have, like, 20, 30 billionaires funding, but he won against all odds.
14:37Because now what we want to see is in a leader, although we know that he won't get any back, you know, fundings or anything,
14:45but people still vote for him because they saw value in him.
14:50So leadership has, in this era, has changed so much from just numbers to what value you can bring to your team.
14:58And being vulnerable, I don't, it used to be a weakness in the past era.
15:04But in this era, if you are strong enough to internalize it and put down your ego and, you know, admit it,
15:15it's actually a strength in control.
15:18Your team will trust you more when you openly say, you know, I'm not confident to do this.
15:26I don't know whether I can do this.
15:27Can somebody help me to do this?
15:29Or what are the ways you think we can solve this problem because my way might not be the only way?
15:36You know, things like that.
15:36When you open to your team, you can harness more from them.
15:43That's what I think is the new era of leadership where value is the center core of it.
15:50Yeah.
15:50I love to hear that about how leadership at the end of the day is, like you said,
15:55beyond numbers, beyond titles even to this point.
15:58And I love that you used recent examples about how Momdani recently won just a few days ago.
16:03And he's literally a nobody or a newbie in the political space in New York or in the U.S. politics scheme as well.
16:10Yet he still won thanks to that connection, that empathy, that self-awareness and vulnerability
16:16that we talk about in being a leader in today's context, in today's society.
16:21So thank you so much for sharing that.
16:22Now, I really want to build on what we've talked about here, about the mindset,
16:26about what being a leader means in today's context.
16:28And just jump a little bit into talking about what happens when both men and women
16:32can bring these different strengths and different values that we have together.
16:37So just jumping a little bit into gender balance, gender bias,
16:40and maybe even how we can cultivate better workplaces for everyone here in this room today.
16:44So we've talked a little bit about what being a leader means to all three of you individually, right?
16:50It's the individual mind.
16:52Now, I want to just move on into how we can move into a collective workplace
16:55or even society or community beyond just the workforce.
16:59Now, gender dynamics at work can be a little complex, to say the least.
17:03Again, like we mentioned earlier, women often carry invisible emotional or domestic burdens,
17:09even as leaders, while men may face the pressure to stay calm or stay stoic,
17:14or like you mentioned, stay chill, right?
17:16Even in the face of a lot of challenges, that's what your husband may have faced as well.
17:20Just want to unpack a little bit more about the patience and the empathy
17:23that both men and women can actually build together
17:26to build better functioning teams in the workplace and beyond.
17:29So, Sarah, I'm going to go to you here for this one.
17:32How do gender expectations, both at work and at home,
17:35how do they shape how men and women show up professionally?
17:39Since you have a real-life example of you and your husband,
17:42how does the home life affect work life?
17:45And how do you think that can be better in some aspects?
17:48If there's any room for improvement at all, yeah.
17:50How does our work life affect our personal life?
17:54Or vice versa. Personal life affect work life, yeah.
17:57It affects a lot because we didn't really start doing business together.
18:02I mean, I was a stay-at-home mom.
18:05Suddenly, I wanted to do business.
18:07And then he was working in oil and gas.
18:09He wasn't around all the time.
18:10He was always offshore.
18:12I had to take care of the kids alone.
18:14So suddenly, I wanted to do business.
18:15And then, I don't know, it kind of kicked off.
18:18And then suddenly, he came into the business as well.
18:21So, we actually came in together accidentally.
18:27So we didn't have, like, expectations.
18:30But I think my style of work was different.
18:34And I think we started in fashion.
18:36And it went on for a few years.
18:39Didn't end nicely.
18:41Almost got a divorce.
18:43I think we need another session for that.
18:46I appreciate the candid sharing.
18:48But I guess we were younger back then.
18:51And I wanted a lot of things.
18:54I mean, definitely, it was the difference in personality.
18:57Because he was always working, you know, corporate.
19:00And it was a different, you know, style of working.
19:04And when he came into the business, he was all about, you know,
19:07you have to look at the numbers.
19:08This has to be right.
19:09And I was like, no, let's just do whatever I am good at.
19:13So, you know, it was a total opposite.
19:15But I guess that didn't work out in Nalila.
19:19So, anyway, as I said, almost got a divorce.
19:23And then, we finally had the talk.
19:25Like, you know, this is what I'm good at.
19:27This is what you're good at.
19:28I think we, you know, we have to lead separate lives at work.
19:33You have your own team.
19:34I have my own team.
19:35Don't disturb each other unless we have to.
19:37So, I guess it's a lot about that communication.
19:42But along the years, along the many, many years that we started doing it together,
19:47we kind of matured in terms of, you know, where you need to stop
19:52and where you need to not talk about work anymore.
19:55And I guess now that we're, you know, we're 43 and our kids are much older,
20:01we realize that, you know, work is work.
20:04But we do need that balance.
20:06And we stop doing that.
20:08As I said that, you know, that hustle mindset doesn't work anymore.
20:13Although it's so nice because when you go back and then you're like,
20:16suddenly you have all these ideas.
20:17But you know that it's time to switch off
20:19and you don't want the kids to know that mommy and papa are still working.
20:24So, we do that.
20:25We have that, you know, we have that schedule.
20:276.30 is always dinner with the family.
20:30We don't talk about work anymore.
20:31It's all about the kids.
20:32And then 7.30, and then 7, we pray together.
20:35And then we talk with the kids, like whatever we do.
20:37And then 8 o'clock, we pray again together.
20:39And that's done.
20:40So, I think, you know, whatever happens after 6.30, it's not working anymore.
20:46And then, I guess because of that, we have a lot more respect towards each other.
20:50So, yeah.
20:51That is such a lovely, lovely trajectory to hear from what was near divorce potential
20:58to what is a successful, not just business, but also relationship today.
21:02So, congratulations to hear on that, Sarah.
21:04Thanks for sharing that so, so candidly.
21:06That's the whole beauty of having this sharing session so, so openly here.
21:10Now, I just like to touch a little bit upon what you mentioned earlier about how, again,
21:14the hustle culture of bringing work back home past 6.30, past midnight even,
21:19and just continuing to think about work even when you're at home with your kids,
21:23with your husband, and with your wife, right?
21:25Now, there's a lot of invincible pressure for both men and women.
21:29But I think, especially for in a woman or a gender female-based lens,
21:35especially as a mother, I imagine, not only does,
21:38you don't just think about work after you get home,
21:41but you might also think about home when you're at work during office hours,
21:44especially if you have kids, you think about, okay, what time do they get home from school later,
21:48what time, or what are they going to have for lunch, for dinner, whatever, this and that, right?
21:52So, these are, I would say, some invisible pressures, as we call them,
21:56I think, in a lot of these reports that we see a lot about gender.
22:00How can a lot of workplaces, especially since all of you are leaders in your respective companies,
22:05how can workplaces start acknowledging these invisible pressures across both men and women more openly?
22:12So, is there any experience that maybe you can draw from your company,
22:15or anything that you think would be a good start if it hasn't already been started?
22:19Maybe you can go to Dr. Ibrahim for this.
22:21Sorry, invisible...
22:22Yeah, how can workplaces acknowledge more invisible pressures amongst both men and women?
22:27So, for example, if women, especially those who are mothers,
22:31they get a bit more stressed out because of their kids,
22:32so they can't, so that might affect their performance at work, right?
22:35So, how can workplaces reinforce this, even for men when maybe they have stay-at-home wives
22:41who they may have to support even more, and that affects them at work as well because of all the pressure?
22:45How can workplaces or leaders play a part in acknowledging this?
22:49So, basically, the first thing you need to understand, like I said earlier, is awareness, right?
22:55Also, now that in this era, again, this gender roles has changed, has developed.
23:06I mean, men don't use to not to, you know, change the diapers of their kids,
23:12but now it's like it's almost weird if you don't do that, right?
23:17Because it's like, it's like really, men's are doing traditionally a woman's job,
23:24and women's are fantastic.
23:26Women's here as a panelist, I mean, working in the forefront of business,
23:29they're doing traditionally a man's job.
23:32So, these gender roles, it's very, very much intertwined now,
23:37but you have to know that men's are from Mars and women's are from Venus, right?
23:43So, these are really two different entities, I would say.
23:48They have different mind.
23:50They have different way of thinking.
23:53They have different way of emotional, bringing the emotional out.
23:56I would say, you know, emotional intelligence is much more higher in women,
24:04but probably less in men, but it is, that's the way it is, you know?
24:08So, when you get to harness that, when you get to, when you understand that,
24:14then you get to harness it better.
24:17So, like, as for a leader, if you want to solve a problem that involves, like,
24:23probably politics in the office, probably you wouldn't want to put a lady boss there,
24:30because, you know, it might, you know, spark more of the drama, you know?
24:35So, not to say that it's something bad, but, like I say, everyone have their weakness.
24:41Everyone have their weakness, and everyone have their own strength.
24:44And we think differently.
24:46So, sometimes, as a man, I would think, you know, we need to start the show at 8.30,
24:52so I need to get ready, I need to get here, you know?
24:55But sometimes, women, they would think, like, okay, what about the traffic?
24:59What about what I'm going to wear, you know?
25:00I have wear this shirt last week, or three years ago,
25:05and I wouldn't want people to see me wearing that, you know?
25:09There's a lot of things going on in the mind.
25:12So, it's different.
25:13You don't need to understand or to know how it's going on,
25:19but you need to just know that it's there.
25:23You need to know the difference.
25:24You need to know, you know, okay, you work differently.
25:26Women work differently.
25:28Men work differently.
25:29Once you have that understanding, then you can harness the strength in each gender.
25:35Yep.
25:35Thanks for sharing that.
25:36That's actually a very, very strong response,
25:38and I think that's a really, really good follow-up point that I want to make here as well.
25:43And when we talk about gender equality,
25:45there's always this mindset or perception that, okay, it's a competition, right?
25:49Like, who is the better gender?
25:50Which one is the better, right?
25:51When the actual answer is there's no better one,
25:54it should be a win-win situation for all of us.
25:56So, then, Elena, I just want to point back to you here,
26:00just jumping on Dr. Abraham's point on harnessing each other's strengths
26:04and complementing each other's weaknesses as well.
26:08How do we shift this mindset from gender competition,
26:11if we want to call it that,
26:13to something that's a bit more complementary?
26:16How do we find that strength to balance rather than clashing with each other,
26:21saying, you're better, I'm not, I'm better, you're not?
26:23How do we find, or how do we shift that mindset?
26:26It starts with the mind, right?
26:27So, yeah.
26:28Well, really interesting,
26:30because I was speaking at another event earlier this week
26:33with the Ministry of Education.
26:36Now, us as panelists agreed,
26:38and we were all international alumni
26:40who had studied in Malaysia from different countries,
26:44we had all agreed that actually,
26:46when we came to Malaysia,
26:47we've seen that the gender roles
26:51were not like our own countries.
26:53There is that competition in the UK.
26:56There is that competition between men and women.
26:59You know, this is a male sector.
27:01You women, stay out of it.
27:02This is a female sector.
27:03You men have no right here.
27:05But then, when we all came to Malaysia,
27:07we've seen that it's very much more,
27:10hey, Malaysia, boleh, relax, you know,
27:12like, santai, santai.
27:14Like, I just feel like that competition
27:16has, within Malaysia, come down.
27:19And alhamdulillah for that.
27:21It's not about men versus women,
27:25women versus men.
27:26Yes, the gender roles have changed.
27:29I mean, I think I'm very young to say that.
27:31But what I see, what I hear,
27:33yes, okay, they have changed
27:35since my parents' generation, for example.
27:38But with that comes a beautiful new workplace,
27:41a beautiful new place to go study,
27:44so overall, alhamdulillah, Malaysia,
27:48I think this competition has died down.
27:51And we did agree on that at the panel.
27:54That is such an amazing, amazing take.
27:56And I think I speak for most of us,
27:58or many of us Malaysians here,
28:00to say that that's a very, very proud Malaysian moment.
28:02Malaysia, boleh, guys.
28:03Well, glad to hear that.
28:05I just want to touch a little bit on,
28:07so knowing that,
28:08especially where we stand as a nation,
28:09and hearing from Elena's experience,
28:12comparing with her home country,
28:14and how men and women are currently working in synergy,
28:18not in competition and rivalry with each other, right?
28:21Despite that synergy,
28:23or while we work towards achieving that synergy
28:25with men and women,
28:26there's still some level of unconscious bias
28:29in all of us,
28:30no matter who we are,
28:31no matter how progressive we all think, right?
28:33There's that level of unconscious,
28:34which is why it's called unconscious,
28:36deep within us of what we think,
28:38okay, men can do this,
28:39women can do this better.
28:40It's always going to be deep inside us.
28:42So I guess,
28:43just going to Sarah here,
28:44since you do run a skincare line,
28:46which skincare,
28:47traditionally,
28:48people might think it's a very feminine business, right?
28:52But of course,
28:53you have a diverse team of men and women
28:55in your company right now.
28:56How do you tackle unconscious bias
28:58in your workplace
29:00without losing that productivity,
29:02without making it the center
29:03or the focus of your company?
29:04Because it is not.
29:05It's really just something
29:06that we could work on,
29:08but not in compromising productivity.
29:11So how do you tackle that?
29:13Kira?
29:14I would say,
29:15like,
29:15in a lot of areas,
29:16we try to mix the team.
29:18So there's always a mixture of,
29:20you know,
29:20a good mixture of male
29:21and also females in the team.
29:23Because I think that men
29:24are more critical.
29:26I mean,
29:27the people in my team
29:28and my husband.
29:30They're more,
29:31I mean,
29:31they're focused on
29:32what really matters,
29:33like the numbers and whatnot.
29:34But I think women
29:35have more empathy
29:37and they're more creative
29:39and they look beyond
29:40whatever the numbers are.
29:42So I guess it's a good dynamic.
29:44I mean,
29:45we do fight at times.
29:47We're like,
29:47you don't understand me,
29:48you don't understand me.
29:49But at the end of the day,
29:50I think it kind of works
29:51because it keeps your mind,
29:52you know,
29:52working and,
29:54yeah,
29:55challenged,
29:55that's what you say.
29:56So,
29:56you know,
29:57if you think about something
29:59and I think that good balance
30:01keeps them
30:02on their toes.
30:04Because they're like,
30:04I want to,
30:05you know,
30:05I want to be better than him.
30:07And he's like,
30:08I know how she feels.
30:10Like,
30:11you know,
30:11those kind of things.
30:12So I guess it's that good
30:14dynamics.
30:15And it's,
30:16it's,
30:17I used to have an all-female team.
30:20Not saying that it's not good.
30:21But I guess somehow
30:22when you have some men
30:23in the team,
30:24kind of,
30:25it's nice.
30:26You know,
30:27it's less emotional
30:28when all of them
30:29get their periods together
30:30and like,
30:31someone to tell you like,
30:34we don't have the money,
30:35but we can find the money.
30:37So,
30:37you know,
30:38like those kind of things.
30:39So,
30:39yeah.
30:40Right.
30:40That's actually very,
30:41very interesting.
30:41And I think one key word
30:42that I just want to point out here
30:43is understanding each other,
30:45right?
30:45Understanding,
30:46again,
30:46it goes back to what Elena,
30:47what Dr. Ibrahim shared as well.
30:49Understanding each other's strengths,
30:51each other's weaknesses,
30:51and just understanding
30:52each other's personality
30:53to really dumb it down
30:55to the simplest,
30:55simplest things.
30:56So,
30:57that's such a refreshing take
30:58to hear that
30:59at the end of the day,
31:00in our fight
31:01or in our battle
31:02towards gender equality,
31:03it's not about competing.
31:05It's not about rivalry.
31:06It's about synergy.
31:07Finding that sameness,
31:09complementing the differences,
31:10complementing the gaps,
31:11and working towards
31:12just a better future
31:13for all,
31:14everyone involved here.
31:15Now,
31:16I think that brings us
31:17to our final little block here
31:18where we want to talk
31:19a little bit about
31:19how we can move forward
31:20or lead forward together.
31:22If the first two blocks
31:23were,
31:24again,
31:24just to have a little refresher,
31:26the first block,
31:27we talked a little bit
31:27about the individual mindset
31:28and that was more about,
31:30that was more about balance,
31:32that was more about awareness,
31:34that's what Dr. Ibrahim
31:35mentioned earlier.
31:36That second block
31:37when we talk about bias
31:38and gender balance
31:39was more about
31:40understanding each other.
31:42This last block,
31:43I really want to just
31:44touch a little bit
31:45about action,
31:45about what we can do
31:46or what we have maybe done
31:48with the panelists
31:49on stage here
31:50to lead towards
31:51that better future
31:52for both women and men.
31:55How do we fill the future
31:56where leadership
31:57isn't about gender
31:58at the end of the day,
31:59right?
31:59It's about your quality,
32:00your humanity,
32:01and your values
32:02as a person.
32:04So,
32:04just going back
32:05to Sarah,
32:06I think,
32:06how can we redefine success
32:07beyond just titles?
32:09How can we redefine success
32:10in leadership,
32:11especially beyond your KPIs,
32:13beyond your revenues,
32:15beyond promotions
32:16and moving towards
32:18mentorship,
32:19empathy
32:20and also just
32:21your responsibility?
32:22So,
32:22if that's something
32:23that Cura has already
32:23implemented,
32:24like a mentorship system,
32:26how does that work?
32:27How do we move forward
32:28towards that future together?
32:30I think
32:30a lot of it,
32:32like for me,
32:33I was in business
32:34accidentally, right?
32:35So,
32:36a few years ago,
32:38right before COVID,
32:38I had to close down
32:39my fashion business.
32:40So,
32:41I think I was really tested
32:42at that time
32:43because I didn't have money
32:44and I had a team
32:45to sustain.
32:46So,
32:47I made the decision to,
32:49it wasn't a wise decision
32:50financially,
32:51kind of stupid back then.
32:53With whatever money
32:54that we had,
32:55we used it
32:57to sustain the team.
32:58So,
32:59this was actually
33:00a very painful point
33:02in my life
33:02because we had to choose
33:04and my husband
33:04was actually laid off
33:05at that time.
33:06So,
33:06I think I was really tested,
33:09do you want to be this leader
33:10or just,
33:11do you want to just
33:12save yourself?
33:13So,
33:14I think I kind of grew
33:15at that time
33:16and it was,
33:17when people say
33:18you lead by example,
33:19I thought it was just,
33:20oh,
33:20hustling,
33:21be with the team,
33:22you know,
33:22whenever they do their work,
33:23if they have to stay back,
33:24I stay back with them.
33:25It was just that.
33:25But I saw the team
33:27growing
33:28from
33:29just being
33:31this is so sad,
33:34sales people
33:34to actually being
33:36leaders themselves
33:37because I think
33:38they knew that
33:39I was being selfless
33:41to myself
33:42and I didn't have
33:43anything else
33:44but I told them
33:45whatever I had,
33:47I'm sharing this
33:48with you guys.
33:49And I saw them grow
33:50and I think
33:51it was
33:52at that moment
33:53that I knew
33:53that,
33:54you know,
33:54it's not just saying
33:55you lead by example
33:56but it's also
33:57letting them know
33:58that you are vulnerable.
34:00I mean,
34:01you're not perfect as well
34:02but we're doing this together
34:03and we're trying.
34:06So,
34:06we try this together
34:07and I think
34:07that not only
34:09made me grow
34:10as a businesswoman
34:11but also for them.
34:12So,
34:13for me,
34:14I guess,
34:15men and women,
34:15whatever it is,
34:17even you yourself
34:18as a leader,
34:19you have to be,
34:20you have to let them know
34:21that you're also vulnerable.
34:23So,
34:24it makes them
34:24trust you more
34:25and especially
34:26when my husband
34:27came into the business,
34:30he used to
34:30not be around
34:32as much
34:33but when he was around,
34:35they could see that,
34:36you know,
34:36he's a leader
34:38and he's also a father.
34:39So,
34:39sometimes when I'm
34:40really busy,
34:42he's the one
34:42that he would call
34:44like,
34:44I think I need to
34:45get the dinner ready
34:46for the kids.
34:47It's okay.
34:48I'll be at home.
34:49You go settle
34:50the pop-up
34:52or whatever.
34:52So,
34:53I think it opens up
34:54a different perspective
34:56to the male
34:56staff.
34:58When they got married,
35:00they are not afraid
35:01to tell us that,
35:02you know,
35:02my kids are sick,
35:03my wife can't take off,
35:05I'm so sorry,
35:06I have to work from home
35:06because they know
35:07because they know
35:07that we understood that.
35:09So,
35:09I guess,
35:10yeah,
35:11that,
35:11why am I crying anyway?
35:13No,
35:13that's,
35:14thank you for sharing
35:15that so,
35:15so candidly.
35:16It's really,
35:16really beautiful
35:17and I think
35:18it's really lovely
35:19to hear,
35:20again,
35:20you're leading by example.
35:21I know you just mentioned
35:22leading by example.
35:23It's not just about
35:24hustling or staying back
35:25in the office
35:26so your team can see
35:27you staying back,
35:28right?
35:28But it's exactly this,
35:29right?
35:29Exactly leading with value
35:31as what I mentioned earlier,
35:34just having that
35:34value-driven leader
35:35and just having your team
35:37witnessing that
35:38my boss,
35:39my leader is a human too
35:40yet she is still here
35:42and she's still thriving
35:43and she's still leading
35:45us with heart
35:46and with empathy
35:47and if anything,
35:48that makes us want to
35:49work harder.
35:50So,
35:50thank you so much
35:50for sharing that
35:51so,
35:51so openly.
35:52I hope so.
35:53I'm sure it is.
35:54I'm sure it is.
35:55Dr. Ibrahim,
35:56what do you think?
35:57So,
35:57what do you think
35:58about this exact topic?
36:00How do you really
36:01find success
36:02as a leader
36:03beyond just
36:04the KPIs
36:04and the title
36:05especially for such
36:06a traditional business
36:08like a dentist,
36:09right?
36:09So,
36:09it's not,
36:10yeah,
36:10it's not e-commerce
36:11or anything.
36:11So,
36:12how do you really
36:12find leadership?
36:14So,
36:15basically,
36:16what I feel is
36:18being balanced
36:20in being a leader
36:22that sets a tone
36:23of balancedness
36:24in everyone
36:25because you want
36:25everyone to do
36:26their job,
36:27right?
36:28But being balanced
36:29is not about
36:30you do
36:32the same number
36:33of things.
36:33You do ABC
36:34and you also
36:35have to do ABC.
36:36Being balanced
36:37is not a straight line.
36:39Being balanced
36:40is harnessing
36:41each other's strength
36:42and having
36:44a shared value
36:46and a shared
36:47dream
36:48or might I say
36:49a shared goal.
36:51So,
36:51you want to reach
36:51this goal.
36:52you can work
36:54together
36:55but doesn't
36:56necessarily
36:56everyone have
36:57to work
36:58until late
36:59night.
36:59So,
36:59we know
37:00if you have
37:00kids and
37:00everything,
37:01okay,
37:01I'll work
37:02in the morning,
37:03you'll take
37:03the night shift
37:04but I can,
37:05you know,
37:05do things
37:06faster,
37:07you know,
37:07things like that.
37:07I would say,
37:10I mean,
37:10I love
37:11how we can
37:14harness
37:14everyone's
37:15strength
37:15in gender roles
37:16but like I say,
37:18now it has
37:19very much
37:20intertwined
37:20and everyone
37:22have their
37:22own
37:23weakness
37:25and also
37:26a strength
37:27that you can
37:27use.
37:29You know,
37:29and sometimes
37:30it's not
37:31just about
37:32to show
37:32how good you are,
37:34it's
37:34taking a step
37:36back is also
37:36a show of
37:38strength,
37:39I might say.
37:42Yeah,
37:42like with
37:43Fuzana at home,
37:44it's either
37:45you want to lead
37:46or you want
37:47to just
37:49go and
37:49take the
37:49laundry,
37:51you know,
37:51it depends
37:52on or
37:54you just
37:54want to go
37:54and,
37:55you know,
37:55do your
37:56coffee
37:56or you
37:58want to,
37:58you know,
37:58take thing
37:59in control.
38:00So,
38:00basically,
38:01you have
38:02to read
38:03the room,
38:04read the
38:05situation
38:05but as
38:06long as
38:06you have
38:07the same
38:07goal,
38:08as long
38:09as you
38:09have the
38:09shared
38:10value
38:10and the
38:11shared
38:11dream
38:12together,
38:12you can
38:13lead to
38:14become a
38:15better
38:16leader.
38:18Wow,
38:19that's
38:19that one
38:21key that I
38:22mentioned as
38:22well,
38:22I heard as
38:23well from
38:24you earlier
38:24was reading
38:25the room.
38:25I think
38:25that's a
38:26very,
38:26very
38:26understated
38:27value
38:28and quality
38:29as a
38:29good,
38:29good leader,
38:30especially
38:30in today's
38:31age where
38:31there's so
38:32many news,
38:33there's so
38:33many different
38:34factors that
38:34influence your
38:35lives and
38:36your work
38:36decisions,
38:37right?
38:37You work or
38:38even decisions
38:39at home.
38:39So reading
38:40the room is
38:40such a key
38:41and understated
38:42value.
38:43Thank you for
38:43sharing that
38:44as well.
38:44That's a
38:45very, very
38:45good definition
38:46of what
38:47success in
38:48leaders would
38:49look like
38:49today.
38:50Now,
38:50Elena,
38:50I'd just like
38:51to go to
38:51you as
38:52well.
38:52In your
38:53pursuit or
38:54in your
38:54purview as
38:55a content
38:55creator,
38:56as an
38:56entrepreneur
38:57as well,
38:58how do
38:58you think
38:59men,
38:59a lot of
39:00male leaders
39:00or male
39:00allies,
39:01can actively
39:02support or
39:03champion more
39:04women in
39:05their respective
39:06workforces?
39:07And how can
39:08women in turn
39:09champion for
39:10more inclusive
39:10policies or
39:11more inclusive
39:12growth that
39:13benefits everyone?
39:14Again, we want
39:14this to be a win-win
39:15situation at the
39:16end of the day.
39:17So how do you
39:17think that can
39:18happen?
39:20Okay, I feel
39:21like for
39:22me, I'm
39:23in quite
39:23a different
39:25situation.
39:26So I never
39:27went into
39:28corporate, for
39:29example.
39:29I managed to
39:30like swerve being
39:32in corporate and
39:33don't get me
39:33wrong, I thought I
39:34was going to be a
39:35corporate girlie, I
39:36got my international
39:36business degree and
39:38then I really
39:38thought I was going
39:39to go back to
39:40Scotland and be
39:40working in
39:41corporate.
39:42But then I
39:43started my
39:44content creation and
39:45then I didn't want
39:46to give up on my
39:47content creation and
39:48I decided this is
39:49what I'm going to
39:50do.
39:50But because of
39:51that, it is a
39:53unique space to
39:54be in, you know?
39:55I've really like
39:56avoided all this
39:58kind of gender
39:59drama because I've
40:01never been in that
40:01workplace to
40:02actually have that.
40:04And what I would
40:04say is my
40:05experience is all
40:06social media.
40:07From the age of
40:0820 to 25, it's
40:09just social media.
40:11And I feel like
40:12we do not even
40:14like see genders
40:15lot.
40:15Like we just
40:15like try our
40:16best.
40:17We do collabs
40:19together.
40:20It doesn't
40:20matter if
40:21you're male
40:21or female.
40:22It's just about
40:23respecting each
40:24other, knowing
40:25your limits, knowing
40:26your boundaries.
40:27It's getting in
40:28touch with people
40:29that make similar
40:30and different
40:31content to you.
40:32And just being
40:32positive and always
40:34understanding the
40:35message that you
40:36want to give.
40:37And inshallah, that's
40:38a positive and
40:39inspiring message.
40:41So having said all
40:42that, for me, you
40:44know, I am so
40:45blessed to be in the
40:46situation that I'm
40:47in and I just
40:48always want to use
40:49my social media to
40:51make sure that no
40:52gender feels left
40:53out and no gender
40:54feels like invaluable
40:56or undermined by
40:58another.
40:58And alhamdulillah, I
41:00see in my space that
41:01we've managed to
41:02avoid potentially some
41:04of this workplace
41:05drama because we
41:07just live and let
41:07live, you know, we
41:08just try our best
41:09inshallah.
41:10Alhamdulillah, that's
41:12very, very refreshing
41:13take and you do
41:14have a unique lens
41:15on what gender, I
41:18guess, gender, not
41:19gender drama per se,
41:20but how gender
41:21equality and what
41:22that looks like in
41:23your lens of a
41:24non-corporate, very,
41:26very modern take on
41:28how men operate at
41:31work versus how
41:32women operate at
41:32work with regards
41:33to social creation as
41:34well.
41:34So thanks so much
41:35for sharing that.
41:36Now, I just want to
41:37go a little bit into
41:37the corporate side of
41:38things before we wrap
41:39things up here.
41:40So for the two
41:41panelists to my left
41:42here, I think we can
41:44start with Sarah as
41:45well.
41:46How do you think or
41:47how do you see mental
41:48wellness or empathy
41:50being built into, I
41:51guess, corporate
41:53leadership or team
41:55building or development
41:56programs at Cura?
41:58So not just as a
41:59training program per
42:00se, but it could just
42:01be the small, small
42:02things on the daily as
42:04part of the culture
42:05in the company.
42:06So how do you see
42:06mental well-being,
42:08resilience being
42:09incorporated in such
42:10programs or a culture
42:12in the day-to-day?
42:14Well, I've never
42:14really officially had
42:15a program for that.
42:17But what we do is,
42:19you know, I always
42:20learn that it's
42:21always meaningful to
42:22the team that I'm
42:24always there and
42:25really listening.
42:26You know, when it
42:27gets really busy,
42:28sometimes you don't
42:29have time because
42:30you're like, I'm
42:31doing everything.
42:31I want to listen to
42:32your problems.
42:33But then you have to
42:33understand they're
42:34humans as well.
42:35So you just, you
42:36know, because you're
42:38with them all the
42:38time and you know
42:39when they're not in
42:40a good space.
42:41And you have to
42:42know that, okay,
42:43we're not working.
42:44What is your
42:45problem?
42:45What do you need?
42:46And it's really
42:47listening.
42:47It's not like at the
42:48back of your mind
42:49having that mindset
42:50like, oh, something
42:52like that, you know,
42:53because they do
42:56appreciate that.
42:57And no matter what
42:58happens, you have to
42:59understand that their
43:01lives, it doesn't
43:02stop when they
43:03work.
43:04It's not like us,
43:05you know, we work
43:05all the time, even
43:06when we're sleeping.
43:07Sometimes you dream
43:08about, oh, tomorrow
43:09I have to do
43:09something, you know,
43:10but it's not like
43:12that with them.
43:12And you have to
43:13acknowledge that.
43:14So in that sense
43:16that, for instance,
43:17you're really busy
43:18and you have a busy
43:19week, but you know,
43:21that team is getting
43:23married and she's
43:24going to have her
43:24bridal shower, you
43:25have to understand
43:26that, you know, it's
43:27her time.
43:28So you have to
43:29allow that.
43:30So I guess those
43:31are the small
43:32things that means
43:33a lot to the
43:33team.
43:34So no matter what
43:35happens, like for
43:35instance, one person
43:37gets influenza and
43:38she's on leave for
43:39one week, but you
43:40know, it's like the
43:40busiest week and you
43:41don't have anything
43:42else, but you can't
43:44do anything and you
43:44just can't pressure
43:45that person.
43:46Although I know
43:47that some of my
43:48team members would
43:49say that it's okay
43:50Kak Sarah, I
43:50would reply your
43:51email, whatever.
43:52So I was like,
43:52it's okay, you
43:53know, we'll figure
43:54it out.
43:55Although I'm dying,
43:56but yes.
43:57So I guess they
43:58have to know that
44:00you are there
44:02for them, you
44:02know, not really
44:03saying that, you
44:04know, I'm here for
44:05you, but don't
44:05really mean it.
44:06It's like, you
44:06really mean it.
44:08So yeah.
44:08Well, that's really,
44:09really lovely to
44:09hear.
44:10So it's not really
44:10just a one day
44:12program.
44:13Oh, I'm here for
44:13you for one day
44:14and then that is
44:14it.
44:15So you actively
44:16practice as a
44:16leader.
44:17You actively
44:18practice what you
44:18preach.
44:19You actively try
44:19to be there as
44:20much as you can
44:21for your team.
44:21And that's very,
44:22very valuable.
44:23I'm sure your team
44:24appreciates that very,
44:25very much.
44:26And the fact that
44:27you mentioned how
44:28some of your
44:30employees, or if
44:30not all of them,
44:31even when they get
44:32influenza or when
44:33they're on leave,
44:34the fact that they
44:34still try to
44:35complete their work,
44:36I believe that's a
44:37testament to your
44:37leadership as well.
44:39So that's really,
44:40really refreshing to
44:40hear.
44:40Dr. Ibrahim, what
44:41about you?
44:42Especially since you
44:43mentioned earlier
44:44that being a dentist
44:46is one of the top
44:47three, top ten,
44:48most suicidal
44:49professions in this
44:53career line.
44:57Yeah, so how do
44:58you then instill
44:58that resilience,
44:59that mental
45:00well-being for
45:01not just you,
45:02but also your
45:02team, like everyone
45:03in the team?
45:03How do you
45:04instill that?
45:05So basically,
45:06what I will put
45:10my focus on is
45:12getting everyone
45:13to be the best
45:15versions of
45:16themselves.
45:17So you also
45:18want to be the
45:19best version of
45:19yourself.
45:20You know, like in
45:20Islam also, we
45:21know that we have
45:23to be like better
45:24than yesterday.
45:26It's not better
45:26than last year.
45:27It's like better
45:28than yesterday.
45:29So it's like every,
45:30if you improve by
45:320.5%, that's
45:34already good.
45:35Because if you put
45:36it like 0.5% a
45:38day, that's
45:39actually a lot.
45:40So if you count
45:41like 360 days,
45:42that's already like
45:43150% better.
45:47So then a year.
45:49So be better
45:51every day.
45:51But how to get
45:52there is by
45:53allowing your
45:55team and
45:56yourself to be
45:57the best version
45:58of yourself.
45:59Okay?
46:00And by
46:01looking at
46:03what are the
46:05boundaries,
46:06by looking at
46:07what are the
46:07limitations,
46:08then you can
46:09go around it.
46:11You can go
46:11around and
46:12you can harness
46:13that potential.
46:15Because like I
46:16say, the result
46:16is not just
46:18about numbers,
46:20not just about
46:21statistics.
46:22It's also a
46:23shared value,
46:25a shared growth.
46:26So when
46:26everyone in the
46:27team knows that
46:29you are going to
46:29that direction,
46:30everyone can do
46:31their best in
46:32their own way
46:34to reach to
46:35the goal.
46:36So getting
46:38everyone to
46:40reach their own
46:40potential, I think
46:42is very important.
46:42And once
46:43you find
46:45the fine
46:46tuning of
46:47the sweet
46:48spot on
46:49how everybody
46:50can work
46:51the best
46:52in bringing
46:54the best self
46:55to the work,
46:56then you'll
46:57move forward.
46:59Wow, thank you
47:00so much for
47:01sharing that.
47:02I think that
47:02point of
47:03being even
47:04just not
47:05one, but
47:050.5%
47:07better every
47:08day makes
47:09all the
47:09difference.
47:10It makes
47:12sense in a
47:12religious sense,
47:13it makes
47:13sense in a
47:14humanity sense,
47:15no matter
47:15which religion.
47:17It's just
47:17something that
47:18is scientifically
47:19proven as
47:19well.
47:20So thank you
47:20for sharing
47:21that.
47:21And I think
47:21having a
47:23team like
47:23you mentioned
47:23that believes
47:25in not just
47:26what they do
47:26on a day-to-day
47:27but believes
47:27in a shared
47:28value and a
47:28shared goal,
47:29that is
47:29something that
47:30is powerful
47:32for every
47:32single member
47:33in your team,
47:33no matter
47:34how big or
47:34small of a
47:35role they play
47:36within your
47:36company.
47:37So thanks so
47:37much for
47:37sharing that.
47:38Now just
47:39to close
47:39things off
47:40a little
47:40bit here,
47:41I'd just
47:41like to
47:41go round
47:42by round
47:42here,
47:43starting with
47:43Elena perhaps.
47:45What's one
47:46mindset shift
47:47that you
47:47believe every
47:48leader,
47:49men or
47:49women,
47:51can do
47:52today to
47:53lead with
47:53more
47:54balance,
47:55lead with
47:55more mental
47:56strength and
47:57more empathy?
47:58What's one
47:59mindset shift
47:59if you have
47:59to choose
48:00one?
48:01I think
48:02it's something
48:03that we've
48:03mentioned as
48:04a panel here
48:05time and
48:06time again
48:06tonight,
48:07it's just
48:07understanding
48:08we have
48:10went past
48:11this
48:11leadership
48:12where it's
48:12just so
48:13democratic,
48:14it's so
48:15authoritarian,
48:17it's just
48:17so shouting
48:18at people,
48:19you cannot,
48:19you've got to
48:20actually understand
48:21your team,
48:22everybody brings
48:23in different
48:24personalities,
48:25everyone brings
48:26in different
48:26strengths,
48:27so if you're
48:27going to just
48:27shout at your
48:28team all day,
48:29they are not
48:30going to see
48:30you as a
48:31leader,
48:31they're going
48:31to see you
48:32as an
48:32enemy,
48:33but they're
48:33there for
48:33the money.
48:34So please
48:35take care of
48:36your team
48:37and yeah,
48:37I think
48:38understanding
48:39is going
48:39to be the
48:40way that
48:40leaders will
48:41go forward
48:42into the
48:42future.
48:43Thank you so
48:44much for
48:44sharing.
48:45So understanding
48:45is again,
48:46as we've
48:47heard over
48:47the past
48:48hour is a
48:48very,
48:49very key
48:49and common
48:50theme to
48:51taking that
48:52first step
48:52to being a
48:53better and
48:53more empathetic
48:54and effective
48:55leader.
48:56Dr. Ibrahim,
48:57what about
48:57you?
48:57What's one
48:58mindset shift
48:58if you can
48:59share that
49:00leaders can
49:01take today?
49:01I think
49:04you've seen
49:05it before.
49:06If I were
49:06to choose
49:07one,
49:07I would say
49:09it's empathy.
49:10I would say
49:10it's to
49:11internalize
49:12empathy
49:12at its
49:14core.
49:16Look
49:16things in
49:18a different
49:18perspective,
49:19look things
49:19in your
49:20team's
49:20perspective,
49:21look things
49:21in the eyes
49:22of other
49:22person.
49:23So the
49:23more ideas
49:25come in,
49:26the more
49:26perspective
49:27that you
49:27can see,
49:28the better
49:30way you
49:30can solve
49:30the problem.
49:31because sometimes
49:32I think,
49:34thank you
49:34Sina Daily
49:35for bringing
49:35this topic
49:37into talks
49:38so that we
49:39can talk
49:40it out
49:40loud.
49:41Gender,
49:43I think
49:45this topic
49:47is heavy
49:48but it's
49:50important for
49:50us to
49:51talk it
49:51out loud.
49:52And in
49:54this era,
49:55we know
49:55that anyone
49:56can reach
49:57their potential,
49:59anyone can
49:59reach anything,
50:00whether it's
50:01men,
50:01whether it's
50:02a woman,
50:04but you
50:05need to
50:05understand
50:06their
50:07weakness
50:08and strength.
50:09So the
50:09main core
50:09thing is
50:10to have
50:10empathy
50:11so that
50:11you can
50:12see things
50:12from a
50:13different
50:13perspective.
50:15Thank you
50:16so much
50:16for sharing
50:16that.
50:17Empathy
50:17is another
50:18very,
50:19very key
50:19role.
50:20And beyond
50:21empathy,
50:21so just to
50:22highlight what
50:22you've mentioned
50:23as well
50:23again to the
50:24audience here,
50:25empathy is not
50:25just about,
50:26I guess in the
50:27Malay word,
50:27we like to
50:28say,
50:28right?
50:28That's
50:29sympathy.
50:29People tend
50:30to confuse
50:30empathy for
50:31sympathy.
50:32Sympathy is
50:33what we call
50:33in Malay,
50:34but empathy
50:35is like what
50:35Dr. Ibrahim
50:36and what
50:36Elena and
50:37Sarah has
50:37mentioned.
50:38It's about
50:38seeing things
50:39from a
50:39different
50:40perspective,
50:40even when
50:41you maybe
50:42don't
50:43understand or
50:43agree with
50:44it yourself,
50:45but you
50:45just have
50:46to have
50:47the ability
50:48to see
50:48and have
50:48the ability
50:49to digest
50:50that that
50:51is relevant
50:53and a
50:53relevant experience
50:53to them,
50:54even if it's
50:55not relevant to
50:56you.
50:56So thanks
50:56for sharing
50:57that.
50:57That's actually
50:57a very,
50:58very key
50:58mindset shift,
50:59especially in
50:59today's trying
51:00times,
51:01especially with
51:01the newer
51:02generation coming
51:03to the workforce
51:03and being even
51:05more outspoken
51:05about their work
51:06experiences and
51:07fighting for their
51:08rights.
51:08I think that's a
51:09very,
51:09very key way
51:10to lead as
51:11well.
51:11Last but not
51:12least,
51:12Sarah,
51:13what is one
51:14mindset shift
51:14if you had
51:15to choose
51:16that you think
51:17leaders should
51:18practice and
51:18leaders should
51:20practice to
51:21lead with a
51:21better and
51:23effective manner?
51:24I think it's
51:26lead with
51:27grace,
51:28not just
51:28having that
51:29grind mindset
51:31because as a
51:32leader,
51:32sometimes you
51:33always want
51:34your team to
51:35grind as much
51:35as you and
51:36also because
51:38of that,
51:38you tend to
51:39sometimes react
51:41when things
51:42don't go your
51:43way.
51:44So I guess
51:44lead with grace.
51:45It's not just
51:46for yourself.
51:47When the team
51:47sees you more
51:48calmer,
51:49they know that
51:51you accept
51:51flaws as well.
51:52So I guess
51:53it helps them
51:54grow as well.
51:55So yeah.
51:56Thank you so
51:57much for sharing
51:57that.
51:57So you have to
51:58lead with grace
51:59and that's a
52:00very, very
52:01powerful ending
52:02to our
52:02conversation today.
52:03Can we give
52:04a round of
52:04applause to our
52:04inspiring panelists
52:05everyone?
52:07Thank you so
52:08much, Elena,
52:08Dr. Ibrahim,
52:09Sarah.
52:10That was a
52:10very, very
52:11powerful conversation
52:12that we had
52:12over the past
52:13hour.
52:14It is also a
52:15great reminder
52:15that leadership
52:16is not about
52:16competing or
52:17it's not about
52:18competition,
52:18especially when we
52:19talk about a
52:20gender lens,
52:20right?
52:21It's not about
52:21competing with
52:22one another.
52:23If anything,
52:23it's about
52:23collaborating with
52:24one another
52:25and collaborating
52:26with each other
52:27to ensure that
52:28everyone achieves
52:29success,
52:30everyone achieves
52:31success towards
52:31a shared goal
52:33and an agreed
52:33goal,
52:34no matter what
52:34that may be,
52:35no matter the
52:36industry.
52:36So thank you
52:36so much,
52:37you three.
52:38Just remember
52:39that before we
52:40end, one thing
52:41that we like to
52:41take away here
52:42is when we
52:43lead with empathy,
52:44when we lead
52:45with grace,
52:45awareness,
52:46balance,
52:47all the keywords
52:47that we hear a
52:48lot in the past
52:49hour up here,
52:50everybody wins.
52:51No matter who
52:52you are,
52:52no matter your
52:53gender,
52:53your age even,
52:55no matter your
52:55role in the
52:56company or in
52:57the workforce,
52:57everyone will
52:58win if the
52:58leader can lead
52:59and start with
53:00grace, with
53:01empathy, and
53:02with understanding.
53:03Thank you to our
53:04amazing, amazing
53:05panelists here,
53:05and thank you
53:06again to
53:06Sinar Daily for
53:07again putting
53:07thoughts, putting
53:08such thoughts into
53:09action and into
53:10conversation here.
53:11Thank you again
53:12to KLGCC Mall for
53:13an amazing, amazing
53:14space to share
53:15with everyone
53:16today, and I
53:17hope we continue
53:18after or beyond
53:19this conversation
53:20as well to
53:20build workplaces,
53:22build communities,
53:23as well as
53:23build leaders that
53:24are not just
53:25smart and
53:26brilliant and
53:27hardworking, but
53:28also balanced,
53:30more empathetic,
53:31and more
53:31understanding for
53:32the benefit of
53:33everyone involved
53:34as well.
53:35So thank you so
53:35much, ladies and
53:36gentlemen.
53:37Have a good,
53:38good weekend and
53:38have a good
53:39evening.
53:39You can stay
53:40over, have
53:41some refreshments.
53:42If you'd like to
53:42speak and ask a
53:43few questions to
53:44our panelists,
53:45feel free to stick
53:45around as well.
53:46They will be here
53:47for a while, and
53:48before we end, just
53:50have a good, good
53:50night.
53:50Thank you so much,
53:51guys.
53:52Thank you, Sinar
53:53Daily as well.
53:55Thank you as
53:56well.
53:56Thank you for
53:58nicely moderating.
54:25Bye.
54:25Bye.
54:37Bye.
54:37Bye.
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