- 1 hour ago
Stefan Molyneux helps a mother navigate her troubled past as she aims to create a nurturing environment for her daughter. They discuss her struggles with isolation and friendships, with Molyneux offering practical advice on fostering meaningful connections and highlighting that growth can arise from challenging experiences.
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LearningTranscript
00:00:00I have a baby daughter. She's asleep right now, but I might have to pick her up and have her join the meeting if that's okay.
00:00:09That is totally fine. Don't worry. Don't worry even the tiniest little bit about that. That's totally fine.
00:00:14Okay. Thank you.
00:00:15You're welcome. You're welcome. All right. So how can I help?
00:00:18I would like to talk about avoiding a future problem and helping myself.
00:00:23I don't have any close friends and I always end up with weird people that I don't really trust.
00:00:30So I feel lonely and I don't know how to show my daughter how to make friends and how to avoid bad people.
00:00:38I need help to try to figure out how to meet the right people and make friends or rather why I can't do that at this point.
00:00:47So that's what I wrote.
00:00:49And I would like to add that I have figured out how to meet people that align a bit better with me.
00:01:00Uh, I have, uh, uh, joined a bit more conservative church and I have figured, uh, or found groups that do homeschooling, uh, close to where I live.
00:01:13Uh, but then, uh, I still need part to, uh, part with the, um, how to make friends, uh, uh, how to connect with people and make friends.
00:01:26Uh, because, uh, because I think, uh, I end up, uh, meeting people and making friends with people that I don't think is scary.
00:01:39But when people align with my, um, I guess, perceptions of the world or, uh, are a bit more conservative or I, what am I trying to say?
00:01:52I'm trying to say that.
00:01:53No, I think I get it.
00:01:54I think I understand.
00:01:55And, uh, do you, do you feel kind of nervous at the moment?
00:01:58Yeah.
00:01:59Okay.
00:01:59I mean, I get that.
00:02:02Listen, I do this all the time.
00:02:04It's not your job.
00:02:05Right.
00:02:05So, uh, just, I know it's a deep breath stuff because I know the, uh, the, uh, that comes a lot from nervousness.
00:02:11So I totally understand that.
00:02:13Don't worry about it.
00:02:14Uh, if you say anything that you don't want to have released, we'll just take it out of the show.
00:02:19So just, you know, I hate to say, just relax, you know, it's like that works, but, but, uh, yeah, just, just do your best because we're just, we're just here to have a chat.
00:02:27Okay.
00:02:28So I'm, I'm, I'm driven almost by morbid curiosity to find out what's happened in your relationships.
00:02:37You said people are scary or dangerous or like what, what's, I mean, what sort of, what sort of hellscape have you gotten yourself into in the past?
00:02:45Well, I, uh, I have, uh, talked to you, um, before actually, um, uh, I have, um, uh, talked to you about, uh, breaking contacts with parents.
00:02:59Uh, um, so I'm from like a place where my parents ended up divorcing each other, uh, eight times it's now, I think.
00:03:10Uh, so is that eight times?
00:03:12When did we talk?
00:03:13Eight times.
00:03:13Uh, um, a couple of years ago, I think.
00:03:18Okay.
00:03:18Good.
00:03:19If it was recent, I'd feel terrible, but a couple of years, I'm okay.
00:03:21All right.
00:03:22Go ahead.
00:03:23It's okay.
00:03:23It's okay.
00:03:24Um, no, we, uh, uh, so my parents have like been with each other and with other people and it's been a lot of, uh, boyfriends and girlfriends and getting, uh, yeah, it's, it has been not stable at all.
00:03:41Um, um, and so socially in my family, I was kind of made the bad guy, I think.
00:03:52Um, because I, my parents always told me that, oh, I'm, I'm so weird and I'm so different from everyone else.
00:04:00And, uh, uh, I am, um, uh, yeah, but, or that, that would be the mild cases.
00:04:09The, the worst cases would be like, oh, you shouldn't exist and I shouldn't have had children and stuff like that.
00:04:16Oh, so straight up like murderous, non-existent, like wish you'd never been here.
00:04:22I mean, so they really are sadistic in that way, right?
00:04:25Yeah.
00:04:26Uh.
00:04:26I'm so sorry.
00:04:27I'm so sorry.
00:04:28That's, that's appalling.
00:04:30Yeah.
00:04:30That's it.
00:04:31It's one thing for, yeah, it's one thing for a stranger in a sense to be mad at you, but, uh, if it's your own parents, man, that, that's a, that's a very, very tough set of words to hear.
00:04:41I'm so sorry.
00:04:43No, it's, uh, well, it's not okay, but, uh, but I'm, I'm going to therapy.
00:04:48I'm working through it.
00:04:49Okay.
00:04:49Uh, and then, um, but it has been a bit difficult because, uh, I have a sister and she has not been treated well.
00:05:01She has been more or less neglected, but she has also been like, not scream the same things at, or we were like,
00:05:10we got different treatment and I'm the oldest one.
00:05:13So I got like, oh, you shouldn't exist.
00:05:16So we don't like you and, or you're weird and different than other people probably won't like you.
00:05:22And my sister got more like, or nothing actually.
00:05:28So I grew up thinking that I was like the bad guy in the family that I destroyed everything.
00:05:35And at some point, uh, in my youth, I stopped talking to people because I thought that, okay,
00:05:41but if I'm that bad, then maybe I will make the world a better place by not socializing with anyone.
00:05:48If no one wants to.
00:05:50Yeah.
00:05:51Like quarantine.
00:05:52Like if your personality is so bad that you're like an illness, then I'll stay away from people
00:05:56and I won't infect them with my badness.
00:05:58And yeah, I think I understand that.
00:06:00Yeah.
00:06:01So, um, I think that's where I come from.
00:06:05And then I think the reason I'm calling bad people like to avoid bad people.
00:06:12I, I don't really believe that everyone is just bad, but, um.
00:06:18Well, no, because if you did, then you wouldn't be calling me because like, well, everyone's bad.
00:06:22So there's no, nobody calls me to say, how do I fly by flapping my arms?
00:06:26Right.
00:06:26At least I hope not because it's not possible, but sorry, go ahead.
00:06:30Yeah.
00:06:30No, uh, it's just, I think I've just ended up with people who's, uh, how do I describe it?
00:06:39I don't want to be rude, but, um, no, just to be honest.
00:06:43I mean, this is just your perceptions.
00:06:45Nobody's, uh, this is not a court of law.
00:06:46So this is just your perceptions.
00:06:50Okay.
00:06:50Uh, well, um, I usually end up with, uh, with the friends that's, if I'm honest, for example, with, um, sorry, I just have to go take the baby.
00:07:06Sure enough.
00:07:08There we go.
00:07:09I have a five months old.
00:07:11Uh, how lovely.
00:07:12And listen, if your baby Googles, coos, cries, makes noise, don't sweat at all.
00:07:16We're very pro baby here.
00:07:17So I, I miss those sounds and I'm still a ways away from grandfather.
00:07:23So, uh, I'm, I'm delighted to hear a baby sound.
00:07:26So don't, don't worry about that at all.
00:07:28Okay.
00:07:30Um, yeah, no, so I, uh, I usually end up with, I couldn't say to people, I don't like divorces because usually my friends would be like, oh, but sometimes the word divorces are great.
00:07:43And, you know, what about the bad relationships and, uh, uh, or I could end up with people who's honestly be like, I like that Charlie Kirk is shot.
00:07:56Oh gosh.
00:07:57Yes.
00:07:58And so, uh, I don't think I have any friends right now that would say that, but I think I have friends that's on the borderline to say something like that.
00:08:11And, uh, uh, I don't think that's people I should introduce my daughter to.
00:08:19Right.
00:08:20And I didn't know like how to connect them really.
00:08:28Uh, right.
00:08:29So tell me a little bit more about how, and if we talked about this last time, just please let me know and we'll, we'll move on.
00:08:35But tell me a little bit about your experience of your parents treating your sister.
00:08:41I wouldn't say treating her better, but not treating her as badly as you, because neglect is pretty terrible too.
00:08:47But what was your experience with that?
00:08:50Uh, my experience, or it's a bit different from when I was a child, because when I was a child, I thought that they liked her more and that, okay, they're letting her be.
00:09:01So they're like, um, I'm must be terrible and she must be great.
00:09:08That's my thought as when I was little, but, uh, from an adult perspective, I think they might have even treated her.
00:09:17Of course, because, um, they, they think she's normal, but they also think that normal children are bad in a way.
00:09:29Like when she had nightmares, when she was little, they would lock her up in the bathroom because they would try, were tired and wouldn't deal with it.
00:09:38Like, type of neglect.
00:09:41And that just.
00:09:43Well, that's a, that's a bit more than neglect.
00:09:45Yeah.
00:09:46Neglect is, you know, we, we have no time for you.
00:09:48We're going out.
00:09:49We don't care.
00:09:49We don't read to you.
00:09:51Locking in you in the bathroom when you have a nightmare.
00:09:53That's, I would argue that's, uh, that's beyond neglect.
00:09:57Yeah.
00:09:58Yeah.
00:09:58So, so, so, but socially, it was, I think she was treated a bit better, um, because she would be like, oh, she's not a problem or she's, uh, she can do things herself.
00:10:17It's fine.
00:10:17Um, I don't really remember, uh, they talking too much about it, but with me, it was more like, oh, she's, uh, she's always troubled about this.
00:10:36Hmm.
00:10:39I'm sorry.
00:10:40No, that's fine.
00:10:41Now, did your parents ever compare to, compare you or your sister to any other, uh, of their own parents?
00:10:51Like, was it, oh, you're just like, well, you're my mother, or you're just like my father, or was there any of that sort of cross pollination from the generations?
00:10:59Well, my mom, sometimes, uh, she would, uh, she would, um, uh, I think she would think of me a little bit like herself.
00:11:11Uh, uh, cause she would be like, oh, uh, my parents, uh, always thought that I was weird, but you know, it's just ADHD or something and, and you have it too.
00:11:22So you're weird as well, or something like that, but, but not with any other family members, I think.
00:11:32And what would you say about the weirdness?
00:11:35How would they describe it?
00:11:36Or would they just use the word without any explanation?
00:11:38Um, mostly just the word, but, um, or they would say that I had too much energy and that I had to calm down, um, a lot.
00:11:55And that, uh, they would say that I was like, um, mean, mean to them and that my apologies didn't mean anything.
00:12:09Uh, but mostly it would be like, uh, you're weird.
00:12:15And I would ask, okay, but how am I weird?
00:12:18Or no, you're just weird.
00:12:19It's a, it's a thing.
00:12:21Right.
00:12:22Well, and for a lot of cruel parents, treating one sibling better is part of the cruelty.
00:12:30It, uh, it shows you that, uh, they can be nice or at least nicer.
00:12:34So it's clearly you who is making them not nice, if that makes sense.
00:12:39Like you're the one who's provoking them because look, your sister doesn't do it.
00:12:42We're fine with her.
00:12:43At least we're not as cruel with her because she's not weird.
00:12:46And so they're cruel then in two ways.
00:12:48One is that they're cruel to you by showing you that they can speak.
00:12:53They can deal with children in a less negative way.
00:12:57And also then they're cruel to your sister because she sees how they treat you.
00:13:02And that's, I mean, you don't have the example of seeing an older sister treated this way by your parents.
00:13:09So you, she, she falls in line and she is, um, she is more frightened of negative consequences because she saw and sees what happens to you.
00:13:23Okay.
00:13:24Okay.
00:13:24I see.
00:13:24Yeah.
00:13:25Yeah.
00:13:27Okay.
00:13:28So the father of your child.
00:13:34Yes.
00:13:34My husband.
00:13:36Congratulations.
00:13:37Uh, he's, he's, he's not one of the people you need to get away from.
00:13:40Is he?
00:13:41No.
00:13:42Good.
00:13:42Good.
00:13:43I had to tell you to bring it up.
00:13:45No, I'm sorry.
00:13:46I should have brought it up.
00:13:47Uh, uh, my husband is the one that saved me from my family.
00:13:52Good.
00:13:53Good.
00:13:53Good.
00:13:53We met at the, um, school.
00:13:56Where you sleep at the school.
00:13:58Yeah.
00:13:58So we lived at the school and then we, uh, became boyfriend and girlfriend.
00:14:04And when he understood what family I, family I came from, uh, he, um, he was like, no, this
00:14:13is not good.
00:14:14Uh, something has happened.
00:14:16Um, and then he introduced me to your shows and I would listen a lot to your shows and
00:14:25I would be like, oh, that happened to me.
00:14:27Oh, and that's happened to me.
00:14:28And that doesn't feel so great.
00:14:29And then I would slowly realize that, oh, they're kind of wrong and they're bad people.
00:14:38They're not good to spend time with.
00:14:41Right.
00:14:42Yeah.
00:14:42A lot of men don't realize that the rescue, the woman from the fire breathing dragon is
00:14:47rescue.
00:14:47The innocent young woman from the fire breathing is, is verbal abuse and, uh, verbally abusive
00:14:53parents.
00:14:54So, uh, and of course there's great danger in that, but you, you, you get the maiden if,
00:14:59uh, if it works out.
00:15:00So, okay.
00:15:02Yes.
00:15:02All right.
00:15:03So, uh, what sort of oddballs have you had as friends before?
00:15:11What, what, what would you look at them?
00:15:13And again, this is just your opinions, but what would you look at and say, well, that
00:15:16person is strange.
00:15:17And if I looked at them, I'd say, oh, that person is strange.
00:15:20I mean, how is it that we would know that looking at your prior friends?
00:15:25Uh, well, what do you mean?
00:15:27Like looking at them, um, visually or?
00:15:31No, I mean, if then, if it, if it's visual, yes.
00:15:34If it's not visual, how else would, would I know that they were oddballs?
00:15:38Well, I had, uh, I had, um, a friend that like, um, uh, she preferred, for example, to
00:15:46let out air in public, um, she preferred like, that was like a, it wasn't like, oh no, it
00:15:53was like, oh good.
00:15:55Yeah.
00:15:56Okay.
00:15:57Um, and, um, we're kind of, um, uh, the, the full package of like greenpeace, save the
00:16:06planet.
00:16:06Um, everyone will save the planet while adding CO2.
00:16:10That seems odd.
00:16:12Yeah.
00:16:14Yes.
00:16:15So like a lefty, but no sort of physical boundaries or consideration for others.
00:16:20Yes.
00:16:21Okay.
00:16:21Yes.
00:16:22Um, another friend of mine would be, um, um, some Christian friends who, uh, who would tell
00:16:33me that, uh, it's important that I can get back to my parents, uh, and that the, it, it
00:16:41really is all about forgiveness.
00:16:44Uh, and then, uh, I would have, um, uh, friends that, I mean, if we came in conflict or I, I
00:17:01remember I had a fight with a friend or I didn't try to make it a fight, but she, she kind
00:17:07of struggled a bit, um, and locked herself up at home.
00:17:13And I, I tried to talk to her about it and tried to, um, uh, say to her, what about treatment?
00:17:24If you know that it's like, um, social anxiety, is it possible to like, um, go to a psychiatrist
00:17:33and she would say like, no, it's not my thing to go into psychology.
00:17:38And well, it didn't turn out so great.
00:17:42She, um, she also, um, said, uh, I think she, she tried to like, um, um, escalate the
00:17:52conflict in a way with saying something like, oh, but so you're breaking contact with everyone
00:17:57you meet, uh, like your parents and that.
00:18:01Oh, so you're the one with the problem because you're negative towards everyone.
00:18:05Right.
00:18:06Right.
00:18:07Yeah.
00:18:08And what happened to that?
00:18:09Uh, do you know what happened to her?
00:18:12I don't know.
00:18:13She, uh, she wouldn't really, um, uh, have contact afterwards.
00:18:19Do you, do you never do?
00:18:20Do you, I mean, maybe, maybe you're alone in this, but do you never sort of check up
00:18:24on people afterwards if you're curious?
00:18:25Cause now with the exciting joys of social media, you can usually check up and see how
00:18:30people are doing.
00:18:32Yeah.
00:18:32Well, um, sometimes I do with her.
00:18:36I haven't.
00:18:37Okay.
00:18:38A lot of people I haven't actually.
00:18:40Right.
00:18:40I'm not saying you should, I mean, maybe it's healthier to not do, but I mean, uh, it's
00:18:45interesting.
00:18:45Okay.
00:18:46All right.
00:18:47And so, uh, quirky people, manipulative people, uh, ideological people.
00:18:54I mean, it sounds like it's that kind of stuff that you had around you and were they mean
00:19:03or openly abusive or more just if confronted, they would get maybe manipulative like this
00:19:08woman.
00:19:09I think both.
00:19:11Okay.
00:19:12So what, what about the verbal abuse people?
00:19:14What were they like for you?
00:19:17Um, I, I think, but I don't know.
00:19:22No, I, I think the first one that they weren't really verbally abusive, but, but I think I
00:19:28would, um, understand it as verbally abusive.
00:19:33For example, the, the friend I had that, um, the, the Greenpeace friend, she would, um, uh,
00:19:41she would say that, uh, oh, I'm so weird and you're so weird too.
00:19:44Oh, the, ha, ha, ha, we are weird.
00:19:46So, oh, sorry.
00:19:48Uh, I just said my name.
00:19:50Is it?
00:19:51Oh, sorry.
00:19:51I'll take it out.
00:19:52Don't worry about it.
00:19:52No sweat.
00:19:53No sweat.
00:19:53Okay.
00:19:54Okay.
00:19:55All right.
00:19:55Yeah.
00:19:56Don't, don't.
00:19:57Yeah.
00:19:57Because I'd rather edit afterwards than have you watch everything you say.
00:20:00So don't worry about it.
00:20:01It's fine.
00:20:01Yeah.
00:20:02Yeah.
00:20:02Okay.
00:20:02All right.
00:20:03So, yes.
00:20:04So, uh, the Greenpeace friend would, would, um, uh, tell me that, uh, oh, she's so weird
00:20:10and, and we are weird together or stuff like that.
00:20:14And since my parents always called me weird, that was kind of a, no, I don't like that.
00:20:19Right.
00:20:20Right.
00:20:20But I don't think it was verbally abusive people I ended up with.
00:20:25Um, actually, I just think it was not my type of people and people I couldn't really
00:20:32stay connected with.
00:20:33So I think I ended up choosing people that weren't so bad to lose if I should lose them
00:20:40because I thought that I was, that I was, um, not worthy of being friends with.
00:20:49And when they figured that out, I would lose them anyway.
00:20:53Does that make sense?
00:20:54Yeah.
00:20:55Yeah.
00:20:56I never quite know how to characterize people who are not like calling you an a-hole or some
00:21:01sort of really negative where you're selfish, you're mean, like, or, but the people who
00:21:06are just, they have this weird psychologizing where you always come out petty and wrong.
00:21:13You know, like, like if you have an issue with her, it's like, oh, you just have an issue
00:21:17with everyone.
00:21:17You're the one with the issue.
00:21:19No one is good enough for you.
00:21:20Yeah.
00:21:20It's not quite verbally abusive, but it is highly manipulative.
00:21:26And it is not, um, I don't know exactly how to, how to word it.
00:21:32I never have, but it's, it's somewhere in that gray zone because it's not nice, but it
00:21:36is, it's a, it's, it's a form of lashing out that in a way is for me.
00:21:42And I think for most people, it's even worse.
00:21:44Like if somebody calls you an a-hole or a jerk or something like that, then you can just
00:21:48kind of say, well, you know, they lost their temper.
00:21:50They're just, but when people lay these complicated psychological traps for you, it's really, it's
00:21:57really hard.
00:21:58I just wrote about, I just read the, uh, the chapter in my novel where a guy does this
00:22:02and I never quite know how to categorize it, but it's not verbally abusive.
00:22:06It's kind of manipulative.
00:22:07And in a way it's even more damaging because they're trying to define your personality for
00:22:14you in a very negative way, but not by using mean words, if that makes sense.
00:22:19Yeah, yeah, yeah, it makes sense.
00:22:23That's, that's, uh, that's, I think that's the category I've ended up with.
00:22:29Okay.
00:22:29So let's, let's dive into how you met these, uh, people, these, we'll call them art balls.
00:22:36Uh, so how did you meet them?
00:22:39Uh, because, uh, that that's, if, if you have a pipeline about how art balls come into your
00:22:44life, then we obviously need to do something different.
00:22:47So how did those people come into your life?
00:22:49Uh, well, the first one was, uh, through another friend, um, just because she lived in
00:23:01the neighborhood.
00:23:02So, um, um, we just, um, ended up hanging together because we were in the same neighborhood.
00:23:12And I think that, well, I, I was lonely and she was too weird for people to like, I mean,
00:23:24when you go around and party in public, it's not many that would hang out with you, I guess.
00:23:29Uh, and then the one that escalated when she had anxiety, I think we, yeah, we met through
00:23:47work.
00:23:47Um, uh, uh, I worked in, uh, uh, in the store and she, uh, she worked at the same place.
00:23:59So we also just, it's not just ending up with people actually.
00:24:05Uh, I think it has been mostly by coincidence.
00:24:10Like, okay, I'm at the same place and they're ish my age and maybe not, um, it's not the worst
00:24:25people to lose, I guess.
00:24:27So I just ended up hanging out.
00:24:29And so, uh, but, so you, you meet them sort of, you don't seek them out, but there's circumstances
00:24:34that the neighborhood or work that they're around.
00:24:37So how, um, when you met, let's say Greenpeace girl, how old were you?
00:24:46Uh, I was, um, nine, I think.
00:24:52So it's like all through.
00:24:54Oh, nine.
00:24:54Oh, okay.
00:24:55Okay.
00:24:56So what about adult friends?
00:24:58Well, she, she ended up being my adult friend.
00:25:03Well, sure.
00:25:03But I mean, you didn't meet her as an adult.
00:25:05So what about, what about gas girl?
00:25:07One from the, one from the, uh, what, what did you say?
00:25:13Gas girl?
00:25:14Yeah.
00:25:14The fart girl.
00:25:15We can call her Jupiter.
00:25:16Gas girl.
00:25:17Yeah.
00:25:17That was the fart girl.
00:25:17Oh, that was the fart girl.
00:25:19Um, just as it, it continued until adulthood.
00:25:23Adulthood.
00:25:23Okay.
00:25:23So what about an oddball you met as an adult?
00:25:27Um, yeah.
00:25:28That, that would be, uh, uh, for example, the one with the, the, um, uh, anxiety, uh, we
00:25:36met during work.
00:25:38Um, okay.
00:25:39Well, we'll call her, we'll call her Nelly because when I was growing up, there was a
00:25:43cliche, nervous Nelly.
00:25:44You're a nervous Nelly.
00:25:45Okay.
00:25:45So we'll call her Nelly.
00:25:47Okay.
00:25:48Okay.
00:25:48So you met Nelly through work and when you met Nelly, were there any indications about
00:25:55her mental health issues?
00:25:58Um, I would say no, um, maybe just that she was really skinny, but I don't think that's
00:26:12a warning sign other than like, I don't think she had a problem with eating.
00:26:18So I don't, well, I mean, if she's really skinny, then that's a bit of a warning sign, isn't it?
00:26:23No, not that skinny or maybe Borla, Borla and that skinny, but yeah.
00:26:27Okay.
00:26:27Uh, I think maybe a little bit because she would, um, like we would be invited to a Christmas
00:26:39party and she liked to go or she would like to go, but then we both ended up canceling
00:26:47last time or like right before.
00:26:51And after she would be really angry that she still had to pay, but I thought that, okay,
00:26:57but I don't get why she would be that angry because when you have said you're going to
00:27:02their party, they have a budget and we're supposed to pay a little bit.
00:27:09And if they have like bought meals already, you know, it's, it's, so I guess the only, um,
00:27:19signal would be that she could get overly emotional about things that happened.
00:27:27I guess, but okay.
00:27:33So it worked, was she competent and decisive and like, but she, she kind of been that anxious
00:27:39in her private life and also been great at work at least.
00:27:43No, I guess she would be a little anxious, I think, and talk maybe a little mean about
00:27:51the customers when they didn't care.
00:27:54And was she, when you met her, was she in her twenties or thirties?
00:27:59Uh, twenties.
00:28:00Twenties.
00:28:00Okay.
00:28:01And when you met her, usually, I mean, there's a funny kind of vetting process that you go
00:28:08through when you meet people, at least certain as you get older because you have to know if
00:28:13you have things in common.
00:28:14And so when you met her, if you start talking about things other than work, usually what
00:28:21happens is you try to find out about people's personal lives because you want to find out,
00:28:28um, if, if they say, oh, I have 15 cats, you know, you want to know that.
00:28:33Oh yeah.
00:28:34So that you can, so, or, or, you know, um, uh, I have a long distance relationship with
00:28:39somebody on the other side of the world.
00:28:41Uh, and it's like, okay, you kind of want to know that because, you know, or, uh, they're
00:28:4628 and they're still living at home or, and so you, you want to, or, or if they, if they're
00:28:53a woman and they live in a bad section of town, it means that they lack sort of basic self
00:28:57protection.
00:28:58So, so you want to, uh, ask people questions, uh, maybe you do, but generally there's this
00:29:04exchange of information because when you get older, you tend to move in similar circles,
00:29:12right?
00:29:13So if you're very successful, you tend to be around people who are very successful, medium,
00:29:17medium.
00:29:17So you don't need to do those.
00:29:18There's a sorting process over the course of your life so that you end up meeting people
00:29:23who are, you know, kind of like yourself.
00:29:25Like if you live in a, in a poor neighborhood, you're going to meet people like yourself.
00:29:28If you live in a very wealthy neighborhood, you're going to meet people who have those
00:29:31so there's a whole sorting process, but that sorting process doesn't happen until the thirties,
00:29:36forties, sometimes even the fifties, but usually it's done by the forties.
00:29:40So when you meet people, let's say when you met nervous Nellie, when you met Nellie, what
00:29:49kind of questions did you ask her if any, or what kind of indications did she give to you
00:29:53that her life was odd or that she had these kinds of difficulties?
00:30:02Well, we talked a bit about home life, I think.
00:30:07And she would tell me that she hated her parents because they were really mean to her, but she
00:30:15still lived at home and didn't want to move out.
00:30:17Well, there you go.
00:30:19Okay.
00:30:20Yeah.
00:30:20Yeah.
00:30:20There you go.
00:30:21Yeah.
00:30:22And was she early, mid or late twenties?
00:30:25Early twenties.
00:30:26Early twenties.
00:30:27Okay.
00:30:27I mean, that may not be the end of the world because early twenties, you know, it's tough
00:30:31to get, get things going economically, especially these days.
00:30:34But, um, and, and how, how did she seem when she was talking about these things emotionally?
00:30:42Um, she laughed about it a bit, or she would be kind of uptight about it.
00:30:54Like, oh, it's, but, but it's not a big problem.
00:30:57Ha ha ha.
00:30:58Type of.
00:30:59Okay.
00:30:59So, so there's your, I mean, that's more than a clue.
00:31:02That's, that's decisive to me.
00:31:05Like if somebody has like, and again, I don't want you to delve into her history.
00:31:09She's not here, but what sort of issues did she have with her parents or what sort of complaints
00:31:14did she have?
00:31:17Uh, well, um, I don't remember much, but she said that, uh, her, her father would be, uh,
00:31:26think that she was useless and say a lot of like, oh, you're, you're living home in your
00:31:35twenties.
00:31:36You're, um, you shouldn't lose her or something like that.
00:31:39Right.
00:31:39Yeah.
00:31:40Yeah.
00:31:41Like, okay.
00:31:41So her father was, uh, really cruel to her.
00:31:44And listen, I mean, I get the tough love thing, but the tough love thing usually can't
00:31:49come from the parents because the parents have created the situation.
00:31:53Yeah.
00:31:53Okay.
00:31:54Okay.
00:31:56Um, I think if it helps, I have a, um, a recent example, I think.
00:32:05Let's look for the patterns.
00:32:06Absolutely.
00:32:08Um, I, uh, I, uh, have a, this is also a neighbor of mine.
00:32:14Um, and we had babies almost at the same time.
00:32:20So we kind of bonded over that.
00:32:23Um, um.
00:32:26Um, but she would, uh, she, um, she, um, she's not against divorces.
00:32:32She's like, oh, but it's, um, uh, it's necessary sometimes.
00:32:37Um, she, uh, I don't know.
00:32:44So I think she's not that bad of an oddball, I think, but, but also we, we really don't
00:32:55align.
00:32:55I think as well, we can talk about everything like, um, babies, diapers, children, stuff
00:33:03like that, but, um, she would also think that it's, uh, it's important that, uh, rich people
00:33:15share all their money with poor people.
00:33:19And when I said that I was a bit more conservative, she would ask if I was a racist, straight out.
00:33:27What?
00:33:28Um, yeah.
00:33:29And I.
00:33:31Oh, because, because say black people generally are poorer than say East Asian people.
00:33:36So if you don't want redistribution, you must be a racist.
00:33:39This is something like that.
00:33:41I think so.
00:33:41Okay.
00:33:42Uh, yeah.
00:33:43Or I think we actually, we, we, um, we discussed political parties and she would be like, oh,
00:33:52but I will be a bit, uh, disappointed if, if this and that is what you vote.
00:33:57And I would be like, um, you, then just, you, you just have to be disappointed.
00:34:03So, so, so if you, if you said, I don't want the government to read, to, to take money
00:34:08from the rich and give it to the poor, she then asked you if you were a racist.
00:34:15Not that.
00:34:19Yes and no.
00:34:20Uh, if you will vote for the party that doesn't want to take money from the rich to the poor,
00:34:27does that mean that you're racist because the party is racist?
00:34:32She said.
00:34:32Yeah.
00:34:33See, personally, um, uh, that would be it for me in those, in that conversation.
00:34:38I would not pursue it any further.
00:34:42Now, at this, I'm not telling you what you should do.
00:34:44Of course.
00:34:45I'm just saying that if somebody is so, uh, so indoctrinated that they just say, well,
00:34:52everyone who's conservative is a racist and you say, well, I'm a conservative and say,
00:34:57well, then are you a racist?
00:34:59It's like, I mean, I wouldn't even know, like, how could you put that?
00:35:02There's too much intellectual damage to undo.
00:35:06Yes.
00:35:07If that makes sense.
00:35:08And, and it's not your job to try and fix it.
00:35:12And of course, also, you know, and I posted this on X, I think yesterday that, or the day
00:35:17before, people don't evaluate your ideas.
00:35:20They only evaluate the effect your ideas have on their relationships.
00:35:24So if she's friends with everyone who thinks all conservatives are racist, then if you try
00:35:30to change her mind on that, she knows that every single one of her friendships is going
00:35:39to be, I mean, toast, dead, dead.
00:35:44Because so, so she is, I don't deal with individuals.
00:35:47I deal with systems like, uh, it's like saying, well, I'll just, I'll just remove you, build
00:35:52a house of cards, right?
00:35:53I'll just take this one card out from the bottom.
00:35:56It's like, but it's a whole system, right?
00:35:58And so I don't look at people having ideas.
00:36:01I mean, obviously there's exceptions, but most people, I don't view them as having ideas.
00:36:06I view them as having relationships based upon lies.
00:36:11And if I start undoing any of those lies, all of those relationships.
00:36:16Fall apart and we are social animals and we need our relationships in order to survive.
00:36:23So basically what happens is I am setting fire to the food they need to survive over the
00:36:32winter.
00:36:33They don't, that they view it as if I am honest or if I accept what you're saying, I will have
00:36:40no friends and no family and I will die alone in the woods.
00:36:44And so I, you know, we're not programmed to pursue the truth.
00:36:49We're the program to pursue survival.
00:36:51And as social animals, this gives people who propagandize a lot of power over us because
00:36:58they can have us set up our relationships based upon these lies.
00:37:02And then anyone who comes and tells the truth, well, they threaten the relationships and thus
00:37:10provoke a fight or flight mechanism.
00:37:14Like, you know, there's that famous picture of that woman, you know, triggered, you know,
00:37:17she's, you know, like she's really, really angry and upset.
00:37:20Well, that's her fight or flight kicking in because the truth is coming along and the truth
00:37:24is a predator to the indoctrinated.
00:37:26So if somebody said, oh, uh, well, if you, uh, if you don't want the government to point
00:37:33guns at people and move money around, you must be a racist or you could be a racist or
00:37:37something like that.
00:37:38Uh, you know, I mean, that's, that's a lot of work to try and undo if that makes sense.
00:37:44And, and why would you, but then again, um, then I have no mom friends left.
00:37:54Then you have one.
00:37:55Then I have no mom friends left or friends with children because that's, but that's, uh,
00:38:02that's because, I mean, of, of course, listen, I, I accept and I understand that.
00:38:08And I'm, I'm not saying that you're wrong because that's, that's a very real phenomenon,
00:38:11but, but it also does have something to do with, uh, how you evaluate people.
00:38:20Yes.
00:38:21I mean, when I was a gold panner, like almost everything that I found was not gold.
00:38:26And the important thing as a gold panner was to figure out where the gold was not.
00:38:34Yes.
00:38:34And then even if I found a place where I thought gold would be, it was as quickly as possible
00:38:41to get rid of, uh, all of the stuff that wasn't gold, if that makes sense.
00:38:46And sorry, that's a kind of a cheesy analogy or silly analogy, but the sorting process, if
00:38:53you're looking for people who think, if you're looking for high quality people.
00:38:57Yes.
00:38:58Then having a sorting process is really important.
00:39:01I mean, we, let's say that only one out of 20 people can think, I mean, who knows what
00:39:06the real number is, but let's just say, or one out, let's say one out of 10, let's be,
00:39:10be nice, be nice.
00:39:11So one out of 10 people can think.
00:39:14So you have to be really rigorous when it comes to figuring out who you're going to talk
00:39:21to.
00:39:22And so I think that's, I think that's part of what you're calling about is how do we
00:39:28find the people who can think?
00:39:31Yeah.
00:39:32And if you are, uh, you know, the, I mean, the number of women who've gone very far left
00:39:38over the past 10 to 15 years is very high.
00:39:41So again, the gold has become more scarce.
00:39:46And so if you are looking at, I mean, sorry, this is, this is the question.
00:39:53So the further you go, uh, are you religious?
00:39:56Are you a religious woman?
00:39:58Uh, yes, I'm Christian.
00:39:59Oh, good.
00:40:00Okay.
00:40:00That's fantastic then.
00:40:01Cause if you weren't, then you have to sort of, in a sense, pick your challenge because
00:40:06the further left you go, the more people will probably agree with you about religion, but
00:40:11the less they'd agree with you about ethics and the further right you go, the more people
00:40:15would agree with you about ethics, but the fewer people would agree with you about religion.
00:40:19So the fact that you are religious is great in terms of finding people who agree with you
00:40:26both about God and morals.
00:40:29So, okay.
00:40:31So that's, that's good.
00:40:32So, uh, homeschooling groups, you said you've looked into those.
00:40:36Is that right?
00:40:37Yes.
00:40:38Um, I've, uh, met up with one, uh, a couple of times and there's, there's also
00:40:45kinds of people there.
00:40:46Um, you have everything from moms that, uh, um, are like vegetarian and kind of a little
00:40:56bit green piece, but also, um, at the right wing, more like, um, uh, we should do the, um,
00:41:09the childcare ourselves.
00:41:10We should be home with the children ish.
00:41:14And then you have other moms that lean a bit more, or I don't know.
00:41:22It's, it's a blend of people, I think, in the groups with homeschooling.
00:41:27So it's not a specifically Christian homeschooling group.
00:41:30Is that right?
00:41:30Yes, that's right.
00:41:33And have you thought about, sorry, have you thought about a specific, I'm sure you have,
00:41:37but what's the story with a specifically Christian homeschooling group?
00:41:41Um, it's, uh, um, so I live in a, uh, a country with a, uh, really long distances,
00:41:49uh, distances between, uh, cities.
00:41:53So, um, it's a bit, um, I don't know if it exists as far as our research, I can't find
00:42:03any, though, um, I might be able to make one because, uh, me and my husband have just
00:42:12started in a bit more conservative church.
00:42:15And I know that a few of the mothers there are thinking about homeschooling.
00:42:22Yep.
00:42:23So it, it might be possible to create one, actually.
00:42:27Well, I, I think that would be good.
00:42:29Now, of course, the big challenge is that if you create one, then you have to filter.
00:42:35Yeah, absolutely.
00:42:38Yes.
00:42:40So, so then the question is, if you're going to start one, how do you filter?
00:42:45Yeah.
00:42:48And also...
00:42:53I think, um, sorry, I just have to move something that's...
00:42:58No, no, it's fine, it's fine.
00:42:59Again, don't worry about, it's totally fine.
00:43:01Parenting is a delightful thing to hear in the show, so...
00:43:04We are a bit close to the cat's room, you see.
00:43:08There we go.
00:43:08Um, yes, I need to know how to filter.
00:43:14Okay.
00:43:15So, how conservative is the church that you go to?
00:43:20Um, as conservative as women aren't allowed to be priests.
00:43:27Okay, got it.
00:43:29So, is there, um, uh, and how many parents are there?
00:43:36Um, I think it's almost only parents.
00:43:40Okay.
00:43:41And young, young men.
00:43:43And is there no group there already?
00:43:47Not yet.
00:43:48It's, I think it's a quite new church.
00:43:52Um, and, no, I, no, it's not that new, it's 20 years old.
00:43:59Um, uh, there's nothing there yet, but, like, it's Sunday school, and there's, um, the parents know each other, but...
00:44:13I haven't heard anything about something there yet, no?
00:44:18Okay.
00:44:18Well, I would say that, obviously, it would be, uh, you can talk with the priest, and if you can recruit people for a imams group, you could just call it, or a parents group.
00:44:29If you can recruit people from the church, then, I mean, you'll still need to do some filtering, because, Lord knows, not everyone in the church is totally mentally healthy.
00:44:38But, I think you can, um, at least have a good base to start from.
00:44:44Yeah.
00:44:45Yes.
00:44:46Yes.
00:44:47Yeah, so, I mean, there will be, I mean, there's one thing, especially if you have a more conservative church, the one thing they're good at is networking and creating groups.
00:44:56Sorry, I shouldn't say that.
00:44:57It's not, like, the one thing, but it's something that they are very good at, is that kind of networking and creating, um, social groups.
00:45:08Creating reinforcement groups, and so, if you were to create a meetup for moms, or something like that, and just restrict it to the people in the church, then that could be very positive.
00:45:21As you've been going to this church, what percentage of oddballs would you say there are at the church?
00:45:29Um, 10%, maybe less.
00:45:35Okay, so that's pretty good.
00:45:37That's pretty good.
00:45:38Yeah, I would say so, yes.
00:45:40Okay, and so have you ever done anything like this before?
00:45:48No.
00:45:48So, generally, the way that I would approach this, which, you know, I'm, obviously, I don't know how you should do it, but I can tell you the way that I would approach it, is what I would do is I would have a mission statement.
00:46:05Right, so reason, virtue, you know, that's sort of, and for me, the tagline was the logic of personal and political freedom.
00:46:17That was sort of the tagline for the show.
00:46:19And so, you need to have a mission statement.
00:46:27Like, what is the purpose of the group?
00:46:29Because any group without a specifically designed purpose gets lost to the crazy people.
00:46:35Like, there's an old saying in all sorts of social organization that any group that is not specifically right-wing becomes left-wing over time.
00:46:43Okay.
00:46:44Okay.
00:46:45And so, I would say, write down your wish list of what you want the group to be, a group to, you know, reinforce our faith and to talk about parenting from a Christian godly perspective, blah, blah.
00:47:02So, to have a mission statement, and then, if it's online, you know, say, here's the group, and here's the mission statement.
00:47:14If you agree with this mission statement, come on in.
00:47:19Okay, yeah.
00:47:20Because that way, if people end up going against your mission statement, like, let's take a silly example.
00:47:27Like, let's say some atheist socialist comes in and starts preaching about the evils of the bourgeoisie, then you can say, oh, yeah, I mean, you signed something which said, this is a Christian godly group to talk about the morals of parenting from a biblical perspective.
00:47:46You clicked on that, and you're not doing that, so you can't be the group, right?
00:47:51The group is for this, right?
00:47:53Yes.
00:47:53I mean, I guess I could come up with a whole bunch of fake things and then apply to speak at a physics conference, but if those things, like, weren't real, they wouldn't let me speak, because it's like, no, this is for physics professors, you're not a physics professor.
00:48:09So, you've got to have a mission statement, and those things can take a little while, because you've got to get things just right.
00:48:14So, I have a mission statement, and then have people agree that the mission, they sign it in a way, they agree to it, and even if they come in person, read out the mission statement, and, you know, just, you don't, it's funny, you know, you don't have to have people sign it, but at least have them initial it.
00:48:33It's funny, it's funny, because people view initialing as much less serious in signing, and some people can freak out about the signing thing, but somebody wants to join, say, hey, great, you know, come on down, and, you know, come down 10 minutes earlier, you read them the mission statement, and just have them initial it saying that they agree with it.
00:48:51Sorry, but I don't understand the word in initialing.
00:48:54Oh, so, if it's online, you can have them check a box to say that they agree with the mission statement.
00:49:02Yeah, okay, okay.
00:49:02But if, to just have your mission statement, and then say, oh, just initial it, that you've read it, and then just keep that, and then if they ever deviate from it, you can say, no, I have your, like, I have your, like, you did read this, and you did agree to it, that your initial is right here.
00:49:21Yeah, because you need to have, yeah, you need to have rules.
00:49:26Anything without rules gets taken over by crazy people.
00:49:31Okay.
00:49:31And you have rules, and of course, the first thing that crazy people will try and do is to subvert the rules, right?
00:49:38So, I mean, I just know this from having run bulletin boards, and, of course, being in the business world, and having employees, and so on.
00:49:46And most times I hired everyone, but there were times when I would inherit somebody else's hiring decisions and then have to sort of clean house for the crazy people.
00:49:56So, yeah, you need to have that, this is what we're for, and then you need to enforce it, right?
00:50:04So, I would, when I would run message boards, there would be rules, like, you know, no verbal abuse, right?
00:50:13And then people would be verbally abusive, and then I would say, no, no verbal abuse, you agreed to that, to come into the, but, you know, verbal abuse, and what they do is they go right up to the edge of it.
00:50:25Yeah, okay.
00:50:26Right?
00:50:27Or how?
00:50:27Yeah, so people, you know, there's this kind of personality that's out there, and you can see this all the time on social media, which is anytime you create a standard, they will immediately look for an exception, or they will try to come to the edge of that standard, or they'll push the boundaries.
00:50:46And these are people, in general, who are not successes in life.
00:50:51They are there to thwart any other person who's decisive, or any other person with rules, they will try to thwart those rules, they will try to undermine those rules, and they act as a kind of rust on the iron of resolution, and so on, although much faster.
00:51:10And so, then, of course, I would say to people, no, this is verbally abusive, and then they would say, and they would immediately, like, look through the whole message board using the search function to try and find somebody else who said something similar, who wasn't banned, or any time that I might have been upset and said something, and they would just try to use all of that against me.
00:51:30And then, if you would ban them, they would create an alt account and say, hey, whatever happened to that guy?
00:51:37He was banned, man.
00:51:38I really liked his contributions.
00:51:40I mean, it seems like censorship to me, you know, just all of this, just manipulation and stuff.
00:51:45And again, I'm not saying that would necessarily be the case, because the internet is much more of a wild place than, say, a church rectory.
00:51:52But, yeah, people will test, and you just, you sort of have to trust your instincts, which I know is an odd thing, because, but in terms of manipulation, by the time you've puzzled it out rationally, it's usually too late.
00:52:10You have to have a kind of instinct for when people are being manipulative, and that instinct is what I'm trying to strengthen with you today, right?
00:52:21So, if you say, I'm conservative, and someone says, oh, does that make you a racist, or are you a racist then?
00:52:28I'd be like, no, I appreciate that, but I'm not going to engage in this.
00:52:33Or, you know, because then they're trying to put you on the defensive, they're being very aggressive, and they're calling you, you know, what has become, and it's a terrible word, right?
00:52:43I mean, it's like the worst, worst thing in the West is to be a racist.
00:52:46So, that's very aggressive.
00:52:50And, you know, if somebody said to me that, let's say they said, I'm an agnostic, and I'm married, and I said, oh, well, I don't know.
00:53:03Well, as an agnostic, you have no moral values, I guess you're cheating on your husband, that would be kind of rude, right?
00:53:09Yeah, yeah.
00:53:10Now, it might be true, but probably not.
00:53:14So, that would be very aggressive.
00:53:18And if I said, well, these would be the logical results of, and even if I was wrong, right?
00:53:27Like, if somebody said to me, I'm a Christian, and I said, oh, so that means you're secretly a Satanist, and you eat babies, they'd be like, what now?
00:53:36I'll give back, right?
00:53:38So, I mean, conservatism has no relationship to racism.
00:53:43And, of course, you know, you could make the left of the real racists.
00:53:46You could make those arguments all day long.
00:53:48But this is just how people have been programmed to vote for the left, right?
00:53:54Especially people who are non-white.
00:53:56They vote for the left because the left just says, oh, white people are racist.
00:53:59White people are conservatives.
00:54:00Conservatives are racist.
00:54:01Therefore, white people are racist.
00:54:03Therefore, they'll take away your rights.
00:54:04Therefore, you've got to vote for us.
00:54:05It's all that kind of programmed hysteria.
00:54:08So, I would not engage with that.
00:54:15I mean, I did a show the other day.
00:54:17Sorry for the long speech.
00:54:18I did a show the other day where a guy was saying, I said, well, do you believe that rocks exist?
00:54:25And he's like, I think so.
00:54:27And I'm like, okay, well, I'm not going to engage with somebody who doesn't even know if rocks exist because I'm obviously much less real.
00:54:34There's a voice in his ear than rocks.
00:54:36My words are a lot less real than rocks.
00:54:37So, if he doesn't believe that I'm, if he doesn't know that I'm real and he doesn't accept the objective meaning of my words, then I won't engage with him.
00:54:49And then, of course, he got all kinds of huffy and all of that.
00:54:51It's like the determinists.
00:54:52Like, if I would disengage from a determinist, they'd get upset with me and say, well, you've got to continue the debate.
00:54:58Or why are you quitting?
00:54:59Or that's cowardly.
00:54:59Or blah, blah, blah.
00:55:00And I'd be like, no, it's predetermined that I quit.
00:55:04It's not my choice.
00:55:05You say I don't have any free will.
00:55:06So, if I choose to quit, there's nothing to get mad about.
00:55:09So, the moment they get mad about it, like, so you're just looking for people to be hypocrites.
00:55:15I mean, you could get aggressive.
00:55:17I'm not saying you should.
00:55:18But if somebody says you're conservative, oh, therefore, you have to defend yourself against the charge of racism.
00:55:26Then, if they're a Democrat, then you could say, well, I guess you approve of the Holodomor.
00:55:37You approve of the murder of the Kulaks and of the bourgeoisie.
00:55:43Or, oh, you're on the left.
00:55:46Therefore, you must approve of the murder of Charlie Kirk.
00:55:50Like, right, I mean, that would be, I mean, not everyone on the left approves of these things.
00:55:56And so on, right?
00:55:57And so, that kind of punching back, though, is usually, it escalates to people who don't respect rules.
00:56:04You know, one of the problems with the leftists is they tend, they don't, they only respect power, not rules.
00:56:08The right are kind of hamstrung by objective moral rules through Christianity, but the left don't, they don't have any rules.
00:56:14And so, it's like there are two rabbits, and one rabbit can only run right, but the other rabbit can run left and right.
00:56:20Well, which one's going to get caught?
00:56:21It's the one that is constrained in its movements and behaviors by rules.
00:56:26So, yeah, so start a group and come up with a mission statement.
00:56:30I'm sure your husband will be happy to assist you on that.
00:56:33Come up with a mission statement about what the group is for.
00:56:36And then you get people to initial or checkbox it online, have them, and then have an interview with them, right?
00:56:48So, if somebody wants to join the group and you don't already know them from church, then have an interview with them.
00:56:56A friend of mine who lives in the States was trying to join a homeschooling group, and he had an interview, a fairly extensive questionnaire, and an interview to sort of vet him and his family and to see if he would be allowed to join.
00:57:15And then he did join, and he stayed in, but there was an issue with somebody who was breaking the rules, there was a meeting, and then their family was kicked out.
00:57:26And so, you have to be, I wouldn't say strict, but you have to be resolute that this is the mission statement.
00:57:35Yeah.
00:57:36And if you agree to it, then you have to stick by it.
00:57:40And if you break the rules, you know, we'll have a conversation, and we'll sort of remind you, and then if you keep breaking the rules, you've got to go.
00:57:48Yeah, yeah.
00:57:49So, what do you think?
00:57:51I think it's a good idea.
00:57:54It makes sense to me.
00:57:56Um, I just, I don't feel confident enough yet.
00:58:05Does that make sense?
00:58:06Of course.
00:58:07I mean, I'm telling you to do something that your parents trained you against that you've never done before.
00:58:11If you felt confident, that would be insane, and you're not crazy, right?
00:58:14So, no, of course, I mean, that makes, that makes sense.
00:58:19That makes sense.
00:58:19But, let me speak to you from a religious perspective.
00:58:24Yeah.
00:58:24Does this benefit Christianity and the worship of Jesus and of God?
00:58:31Well, yeah, I would think so, yes.
00:58:37Yes.
00:58:38Okay.
00:58:39So, if it benefits Christianity and the worship of Jesus and of God, then will not God guide you?
00:58:47If you pray to God for guidance, will God not guide you in this way?
00:58:55Yes, he would, yes.
00:58:56I mean, it's a thing that's wild to me.
00:58:59I remember when I was a kid, like, how could he pay attention to everything?
00:59:03You know, like, it would be me playing piano and playing baseball and doing math and, you know, learning how to juggle all at the same time.
00:59:12Like, I can't conceive of it.
00:59:13But God will take a personal interest in your promotion of this godly group, right?
00:59:20Particularly because it involves children.
00:59:22Yes.
00:59:23So, God will guide you if you pray, if you consult with your husband, you consult with your conscience, you consult with your priest, then God will guide you.
00:59:35Because you have instincts that your parents can distort but not destroy.
00:59:40And this is very true about the victims of child abuse as a whole.
00:59:44You have instincts that your parents can distort but not destroy.
00:59:49So, they can hijack your fight-or-flight mechanism and make you frightened of conflict because they're so aggressive.
00:59:58And so, they can hijack your fight-or-flight mechanism, but they can't erase your fight-or-flight mechanism.
01:00:03So, you just kind of need to wrestle yourself back from the enemy, but you don't need to rebuild yourself from scratch.
01:00:11It's like some criminal grabs a knife from you.
01:00:14You just have to grab the knife back, but he can't destroy the knife.
01:00:17So, your parents can hijack your emotional system and use it to their benefit, but they can't destroy it.
01:00:24You just need to take it back, so to speak.
01:00:26So, your healthy fight-or-flight mechanism is there.
01:00:30It just needs to be recovered from what your parents did.
01:00:34And prayer, consulting with your conscience, consulting with your deepest self.
01:00:40If you're not religious, you're praying to the deepest aspects of yourself, which are beyond the reach of your parents.
01:00:45Your parents can't verbally abuse you and destroy your liver or your kidney.
01:00:50I mean, they can hijack your systems, but they can't destroy them, so it's just a matter of taking them back.
01:00:57And so, your healthy scanning for and identification of crazy people, dysfunctional people, oddballs, eccentrics, manipulators, and all of that, all the mechanisms that do that are all still in you and are all still viable.
01:01:19They've just been pointed in the wrong direction, and you can kind of wrestle them back to point in the right direction.
01:01:24So, your parents, by calling you weird, weird, weird all the time, were programming you to be more sympathetic to weird people and to, in a sense, have less in common with healthy people.
01:01:41And so, you just need to challenge that definition, and your instincts will all be there and be right and healthy.
01:01:51I mean, my family messed up my instincts for some time, and through therapy, through self-knowledge, through philosophy,
01:02:00I was able to reorient my instincts back to not identifying and rejecting healthy people in a way or identifying and bringing dysfunctional people more in my life.
01:02:13But now, I mean, I see a dysfunctional person, I can tell from the body language, I can tell from the vocal intonation, I can tell from eye contact, I can tell from, even if they're just typing, I mean, I can just tell.
01:02:25I can tell on a blog post or somebody's reply on X or anywhere, I can tell if all they're doing is trying to manipulate me with everything that they're typing.
01:02:39I can feel that sweat, I can see that musculature that they're trying to manipulate and control me from the very first sentence.
01:02:48And so, your instincts will be just fine, they haven't been destroyed, they've just been hijacked, if that makes sense.
01:02:54It's like, you know, if you get rid of the terrorist, then you can take the plane back at its proper direction.
01:02:59But the terrorist can only change the course of the plane, it can't despawn the plane from existence, if that makes sense.
01:03:07Yes, it makes sense.
01:03:09And I think you're right, I think, because I have, like when my friend asked if I were racist because I was conservative,
01:03:18I would get that feeling, but I just couldn't, like, say, no, she can't be my friend yet.
01:03:33Well, it's awkward, right?
01:03:35And I don't have any magical cure for that awkwardness, right?
01:03:40Like, I mean, if I were to say, this is what I believe, and somebody would say, oh, that makes you, whatever, a fascist or something like that.
01:03:49I mean, you can say, what do you mean by fascist?
01:03:55I don't understand the definition.
01:03:57Because a lot of people mean a lot of different things by the word fascist.
01:03:59They'd say, oh, well, you're for, you know, a partnership between government and business.
01:04:08And I would say, well, aren't there a lot of partnerships between government and businesses all over the world?
01:04:12Does that mean everyone's a fascist?
01:04:14Like, I don't, again, sort of try to understand, right?
01:04:19Yeah.
01:04:19Say, oh, well, fascism is when you have laws that, you want to have laws that harm minorities.
01:04:25And I'd be like, okay, so in Africa, South Africa, whites are the minority, and there are laws that say you can't hire them.
01:04:31So does that mean that the government of South Africa is fascist?
01:04:35Like, and you just ask them questions.
01:04:37I mean, this is the Socratic thing.
01:04:38I mean, most people, they don't have a clue what they're talking about.
01:04:41I mean, it's just a sad fact of life based upon bad education and propaganda and so on.
01:04:45They don't have a clue what they're talking about.
01:04:48And so, and you can just, you can kind of patiently ask them questions.
01:04:52Oh, well, what is racism?
01:04:55Oh, it's a systematic discrimination against people.
01:04:57It's like, well, then don't hire in quotas that disadvantage whites.
01:05:01Doesn't that, isn't that racist?
01:05:03Well, no, because you can't be racist if you have power.
01:05:08It's like, but individual whites don't have power.
01:05:11So just ask questions.
01:05:14And most times people will just freak out and kind of stay away from you because you've got this light that shows the brain cockroaches in their minds, right?
01:05:25Sorry, coming in.
01:05:27Well, if you, yeah, if you ask people questions that they can't answer, then you begin to peel back the layers of their language to reveal that there's nothing inside.
01:05:37There's no thought, there's no reason, there's no understanding, there's no kindness, there's no compassion.
01:05:43They're just an empty shell wrapped in spiky words.
01:05:46And so they will generally tend to avoid you or you can say, I don't, I don't really feel good about being even possibly accused of racism.
01:05:58So with your kind indulgence, I think I will not talk about this topic or this is kind of all as hell to talk about at work or, you know, this seems a little aggressive to me.
01:06:10And I mean, but they're putting you in an awkward position.
01:06:14When somebody accuses you of something heinous, I don't know, nothing really, right?
01:06:19They put you in an awkward position.
01:06:22Yeah.
01:06:23And if you escalate, they generally don't have any rules of combat, right?
01:06:29I mean, it would be one thing to go into a boxing ring, right?
01:06:33Where it's like, you can't gouge the eyes.
01:06:37Everyone's got to wear the gloves.
01:06:38You can't hit below the belt.
01:06:39Like there's all these rules, right?
01:06:41You have to disengage if the whistle blows and so on.
01:06:44So you can train for a fight like that.
01:06:47But if you're in some sort of horrible street brawl where some psycho is willing to like gouge your eyes and bite and just do anything to win, I mean, it's really tough to know how to train for that other than, you know, I guess hopefully have some sort of weapon that can get you out of that situation as safely as possible.
01:07:06So generally, when people escalate to that degree out of nothing, like, oh, I'm a conservative.
01:07:13Oh, are you a racist?
01:07:15Then they don't have any rules of combat and they will just do anything.
01:07:20And so the problem is if you engage in conflict with people who have no rules of combat.
01:07:25Well, I mean, that was my deplatforming, right?
01:07:27People couldn't, they couldn't dispute what I said.
01:07:33And so they just said, he's a terrible guy and mass reported me and whatever, right?
01:07:39Politics, who knows what went on behind the scenes.
01:07:42But I got banned rather than engaged with, right?
01:07:50Because, of course, if there were things that I was saying that was wrong, then I would love to get the counterproof and I would love to publish the counterproof and I would retract and apologize.
01:08:01That's what I've done before when I've got things wrong.
01:08:04So, but the problem is they don't, they don't fight fair.
01:08:08And I don't get involved in conflicts with people who don't respect any rules of combat.
01:08:13That's like saying, well, I want you, I want to debate with you, but if I feel you're winning the debate, I'm going to shoot your dog.
01:08:19I'd be like, okay, I don't want to debate anymore.
01:08:21Like, I'm not going to, it's not a debate.
01:08:23That's like some weird John Wick thing, right?
01:08:25So, so when people are that aggressive, it's an awkward position because what they're doing is they're saying, I don't have any rules in how I relate to people.
01:08:38I don't have any standards.
01:08:39I don't have, and now in England, when I was growing up, if you didn't have any rules, then you were shunned and ostracized.
01:08:45Like if you were impolite or rude or, or sort of thoughtless or careless or something like that, then people would just not spend any time with you.
01:08:53Or when I was a kid, if there was another kid who didn't respect the rules of whatever game we were playing, we just wouldn't invite them next time.
01:09:00Right.
01:09:01Or we would actually, we would have a signal, we'd wink or something like that, and everyone would say, oh, it's time for dinner, we're going home.
01:09:08And then we would leave, and then we would meet somewhere else and continue the game to get rid of that kid.
01:09:13And then if that kid came and wanted to join in the game, we just wouldn't respond to him.
01:09:17Or if he tried to join in the game, we would either tell him to go away, or we would just say, oh, it's, you know, we've all got to go.
01:09:24And then we'd meet somewhere else.
01:09:25And then the kid would figure it out, and either the kid would end up learning to play by the rules, or they'd just be permanently ostracized.
01:09:32And so we had that sort of, but we don't really have that in society anymore, because everyone can get resources through the state.
01:09:38So we've lost our power to ostracize, which means we've lost our power to enforce rules, which means people either have rules because they have a conscience, or they don't have any rules because they don't have a conscience.
01:09:50And then we have no way to enforce anything.
01:09:52So it's an awkward position to be in.
01:09:58Yes.
01:09:59And that's part of the design of the plan, is to put the good people in awkward positions and watch them squirm, right?
01:10:06And so that's kind of like, for you, you being called a racist or something is kind of like your parents calling you weird.
01:10:13It triggers all of this shame or feeling of wrongness or something like that, right?
01:10:20But that's tough, and I sympathize, and I certainly wouldn't.
01:10:23But yeah, you can get out of those situations, and you don't have to confront anyone.
01:10:30Again, I generally don't confront people who don't have any rules, right?
01:10:34You know, if I'm engaged in a conflict with someone and they pull out a knife, like, I'm going to just leave.
01:10:42I'm not going to engage at that level, so to speak.
01:10:45So, you know, I was happy when I was in Australia and hard leftists were sort of outside the venue.
01:10:54If they were protesting, I'd go out and chat with them, and we even sent out some umbrellas when it was raining.
01:11:00But the people who were really violent, I didn't engage with them because there's just no rules then.
01:11:06So, yeah, so if people are like that, then your sole goal is to try and don't defend, don't engage.
01:11:14Your sole goal is to try and get out of the situation with as little provocation as possible
01:11:20because they've signaled that they're not capable or willing to engage in civil discourse, civilized discourse,
01:11:28and that for your sole goal is to get out of the situation with as little escalation as possible.
01:11:38So you can ask them definitions if you want.
01:11:40That's a little easier for me.
01:11:41It's online.
01:11:42But if it's someone right there, I would not, you know, once or twice over the years,
01:11:48I've had someone confront me in public and be really sort of upset and mad and so on.
01:11:53I'll ask them a couple of questions to gauge if they're at all interested in a reasonable discourse,
01:11:57and if they're not, I just disengage and leave.
01:12:02Yes, okay.
01:12:03Okay.
01:12:03So does that help in terms of maybe stuff that happens out in the world as a whole,
01:12:11but having a mission statement that people have to agree to in order to join your group
01:12:17and then interviewing them before they join to get a sense of who they are
01:12:21and then going over them, you know, you can go over with them or you can have in that, you know,
01:12:29here's the resolution process if there's a disagreement and so on.
01:12:34And you don't want to get like an entire book of law, but, you know,
01:12:38and, you know, the decisions of the executive committee or whatever are final, blah, blah, blah.
01:12:44And I think then you can be in control.
01:12:47And wouldn't that be great to go from somebody who was always called weird, which is horrible,
01:12:52to somebody who's policing weirdos and making sure that the normal, kind, happy and healthy people
01:13:00are central to the group?
01:13:02Yeah, yes, it would be nice.
01:13:07Okay, Lisa, I don't want to cut the call short.
01:13:09I know you have your baby.
01:13:10Is there anything else that I could sort of help you with in the short run?
01:13:13And nice to chat with you again.
01:13:17Yeah, nice to chat again.
01:13:19I think that will do.
01:13:22I think, well, now I have a lot of things to do.
01:13:26I have to make a group.
01:13:27Yeah, and there may be templates, like if you try and join other groups, they may have
01:13:33templates.
01:13:34You could just try and join, read the template and then decline or whatever and just sort
01:13:37of see what they have.
01:13:39But I think that would be, and of course, your husband sounds very wise as are you, so I'm
01:13:43sure you guys can come up with something good.
01:13:44But yeah, that would be my suggestion.
01:13:47It certainly is possible to run positive and healthy groups.
01:13:51And if you have people's acceptance of the standards that are expected, it does a lot
01:14:01to filter out the crazy people.
01:14:02And then the other thing, too, is that if people have read and signed something, even
01:14:08if they've just initialed it or clicked on a checkbox, then they're much less likely
01:14:13to dispute that as a whole, and that can be very helpful down the road.
01:14:17Okay, yeah.
01:14:19All right, well, listen, keep me posted about how things are going.
01:14:21And I really appreciate the touchback.
01:14:23Congratulations on your marriage and your motherhood.
01:14:25That is a beautiful thing.
01:14:26And I hope you enjoy, I'm sure you will, your day with your baby.
01:14:30Yes, I will.
01:14:32And thank you for the help.
01:14:33You're welcome.
01:14:33All the best.
01:14:34Bye-bye.
01:14:35Bye-bye.
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