''Governments are once again challenging the authority of central bankers'

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00:00With gold at historic highs comes an old chestnut of Italian politics.

00:06Lawmakers eyeing a solution to chronic debt, selling some of the central banks $300 billion worth of reserves.

00:13Third highest in the world, by the way, behind the U.S. and Germany.

00:16They wouldn't sell the gold at first, and not explicitly, it seems.

00:20Instead, lawmakers from the ruling conservative far-right coalition working on a bill to claim

00:24the country's gold is property of the Italians.

00:29That's causing wariness among nations that share the euros, a common currency,

00:34who fear it will dent confidence of markets.

00:37But now, in a bid to reassure central bankers, lawmakers have amended the language of part of this concept,

00:48part of the budget bill for next year.

00:50Salvatore Rossi is former general director of the Bank of Italy.

00:54Thank you for speaking with us here on France 24.

00:56Thank you for having me.

01:00The first draft of this clause inserted into next year's budget stated the gold reserves belong to the state

01:08on behalf of the Italian people.

01:11Now comes this amended text, no longer mentions the state, saying the gold now belongs to the Italian people.

01:17How do you interpret that?

01:18Well, you know, I mean, first of all, this is not the first time that somebody attempts to move

01:31the official reserves in gold from the Bank of Italy towards the state, the Italian state.

01:41The European treaties establishing the euro area and the European central bank explicitly forbids that.

01:55So, I mean, according to the original text of the amendment, there was clearly a violation of the European treaties.

02:06And so, I mean, the Italian government would, you know, would face a contrast, a fight with Europe,

02:21with the European institutions.

02:23And so, I mean, in order to establish a principle, the principle that the official gold in Italy,

02:40as well as in France or in Germany, belongs to the people.

02:44Well, nobody doubts about that in ultimately that's true, but the official reserves are managed and owned and managed by sense banks,

03:01by the national sense banks, which are public entities.

03:06So, they act, you know, in the interest of the public, of the people.

03:14And so, really, personally, I don't understand why, you know, that we establish a principle which is already there,

03:25which is already, you know, I mean, a well-known fact.

03:32But, you know, why, you know, risking this contrast with European institutions?

03:42And there is a temptation, though.

03:44After all, Italy does have, again, the world's third highest largest reserves of gold.

03:53Most people don't know that.

03:55Italy is the fourth in the world after the American Fed, the Bundesbank, the IMF, and the fourth comes Italy.

04:17Italy.

04:18That's true.

04:19Italy.

04:20That's true.

04:21I mean, we Italians are, have a lot of gold.

04:25Little, our official reserves in gold are a little higher than the French ones.

04:36But that doesn't mean that anybody could sell in the market part of that gold.

04:46Nobody was ever, ever thinking about that, nor the French, nor the Germans, nor the British, nor the Americans, ever.

04:59That's impossible, because gold is the ultimate guarantee of the solidity of a country.

05:09And so that would give a terrible message to the world, to the market, to the world,

05:17if a country decided to sell in the private market part of its official reserves.

05:24Salvatore Rossi, you're a central banker.

05:28Earlier this hour, we heard the U.S. president again take a shot at the president of the United States' central bank, the Fed.

05:37Is it just a sign of the times that that firewall between politicians and central banks is no longer what it was?

05:47Well, you know, I mean, in ancient times, that was normal, that governments would, you know,

06:02would have a fight with central bankers.

06:07In the last 30 or 40 years, we've got accustomed with another way of acting and thinking,

06:19with the independence from the politics and governments of central banks,

06:27established as a sort of immortal truth.

06:33But, yes, now, again, as you said, it's a sign of times that, again, governments are trying to overcome central bankers.

06:47Salvatore Rossi, so many thanks for speaking with us here on France 24.

''Governments are once again challenging the authority of central bankers'

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