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Il commissario Ue Brunner per la migrazione: “Dobbiamo riguadagnare la fiducia dei cittadini”
Il commissario europeo per la migrazione Magnus Brunner ritiene che il nuovo patto sulla migrazione e l’asilo sia sulla buona strada per affrontare un problema che da anni alimenta il populismo
ALTRE INFORMAZIONI : http://it.euronews.com/2025/12/02/il-commissario-ue-brunner-per-la-migrazione-dobbiamo-riguadagnare-la-fiducia-dei-cittadini
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Il commissario europeo per la migrazione Magnus Brunner ritiene che il nuovo patto sulla migrazione e l’asilo sia sulla buona strada per affrontare un problema che da anni alimenta il populismo
ALTRE INFORMAZIONI : http://it.euronews.com/2025/12/02/il-commissario-ue-brunner-per-la-migrazione-dobbiamo-riguadagnare-la-fiducia-dei-cittadini
Abbonati, euronews è disponibile in 12 lingue.
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00:00Stéphane Grobe
00:30Stéphane Grobe
01:00Stéphane Grobe
01:02Stéphane Grobe
01:04Stéphane Grobe
01:06Stéphane Grobe
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01:12Stéphane Grobe
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01:18Stéphane Grobe
01:20Stéphane Grobe
01:22Stéphane Grobe
01:24Stéphane Grobe
01:26Stéphane Grobe
01:28Stéphane Grobe
01:30Stéphane Grobe
01:32Stéphane Grobe
01:34Stéphane Grobe
01:36Stéphane Grobe
01:38Stéphane Grobe
01:40Pacto implementato. That is really important. That is key. The member states are on track.
01:44There are some challenges, of course, until June 2026, but we are on track, and it's important
01:52to implement. The missing pieces, like return regulation, like safe third country, safe
01:58country of origin, that is also important. That's what we presented as well, but implementing
02:04the pact is key. The member states have agreed on that, and it's a very good basis, and
02:08after that, of course, we have to further develop the whole policy.
02:12You mentioned the return mechanism. There is the controversial idea of return hubs, so
02:18the idea to send individuals who have no right to stay in the EU to a third country. Where
02:25are we on this? Who should negotiate here, and who should be the partner on the other
02:30side? I know that Germany and Greece are now talking to countries in Africa, for example.
02:35Well, our role here as a commission is to pave the way, to have the right legislative framework
02:42also, and that is what the return regulation is about. We presented that quite quickly, actually,
02:49in the first 100 days, and now it's in the parliament and in the council, and for the parliament and
02:54the council to have an agreement at the end of the day. But it is important, because we have
02:59the situation that only one out of five people who are illegally in the European Union are
03:03actually being returned, which is not acceptable, I would say, and which the people in Europe
03:09don't accept, which I totally understand. That's why we need new rules. That's why the regulation
03:16is really important. And yes, there are possibilities for the member states to look into new solutions,
03:23new innovative solutions, and Return Hubs is one of it. So paving the way, making the framework and
03:32making it possible for the member states to look into possibilities like Return Hubs is key, and that's
03:39what we did with the return regulation. But you don't want the EU Commission to negotiate on behalf of all
03:44the member states? No, we can support them, of course, when it comes to agreements with third countries, where we put
03:49migration also on the table. This migration diplomacy, I think, is key. But of course, when it comes to
03:55concrete agreements, then it's for the member states to negotiate that. They have to send us the agreement
04:02beforehand so that we make sure that all the legislations are met and all the functions are met.
04:11That is important, the safeguards which are there, but it's for the member states to discuss what is good,
04:18I think, and what makes me optimistic, that some member states work together there and try to find
04:26common solutions, which is good, and we support that as a commission. So under the new rules, EU countries
04:31must distribute among themselves at least 30,000 asylum seekers per year or pay money, make a financial
04:40contribution. What happens if all countries opt for that second option? Well, we'll see. I mean,
04:46we just delivered the solidarity cycle, the mechanism just two weeks ago, where we define which member
04:55state is under which pressure. All member states have different challenges. All are sort of under
05:00pressure, but of course, in different different ways. Frontline member states have a different challenge
05:05than member states with secondary migration, for instance. So we tried to and we have clear rules on
05:11that in the pact. It's a clear mechanism, and that's what we presented two weeks ago to the
05:18member states, to the council, and now it's the council to decide also. And that's to your question.
05:24It's then the negotiations between the member states also, in which direction they are going,
05:30but for the council then to decide hopefully in December already on the solidarity circle.
05:37I mean, the question was, of course, a little provocative. Not every country will do that,
05:42but we have two countries, Poland and Hungary, who have already said we're not taking any asylum
05:46seekers, we're not paying any money. So what are the consequences if this happens?
05:50Well, just take Poland as an example. Poland is under pressure, of course, because they are in the
05:56eastern border side. Hybrid threats coming from Russia and the Belarusian side, I saw that firsthand when
06:02visiting the Polish-Belorussian border, saw that migrants are actually used as a weapon, as a hybrid
06:07weapon against the European Union. So we see that they are under pressure, of course. And also they took
06:14a lot of Ukrainians. So they were very helpful there as well. They integrated very well in their labor
06:20market. So they did a very good job. And we acknowledge that they are under pressure. So Poland doesn't have to
06:26to take any migrants. There's no worries about that. And Hungary? Well, Hungary is a different topic
06:34because Hungary decided or told us not to take part in the pact implementation. But then they don't
06:42benefit on the other side. So either you take part, then you benefit from the solidarity if you are under
06:47pressure. And as I said before, it's not perfect. But Hungary could also benefit from the pact. And the whole
06:54European Union benefits from the pact because we have better external border protection. We have
07:02safer borders. We have asylum procedures at the borders already. That's actually what all member states
07:08ask for and what the pact delivers. Hopefully Hungary will also look into it and look into the benefits
07:13they have from implementing the pact on the one hand, but also from the other regulations and
07:18we delivered already. So illegal immigration in the EU, and that's what we're talking about here,
07:24fell by 35 percent between 2024 and 2025. And there has been a 95 percent decline on the Western
07:33Balkan route alone. And according to the Austrian government, for example, illegal migration is currently
07:39hovering at around zero percent. What has led to these numbers? Is irregular migration still an emergency?
07:49It is still, of course, yes. Numbers are going down. That's good. That makes us optimistic.
07:54Also, you mentioned the numbers, 35 percent in general in the last year before the new pact is
08:00being implemented. Yes, but we send signals already and we have agreements and agreements with third
08:06countries as well. And that's exactly the point. On the one hand, it's the stability, of course,
08:10in countries like Syria, for instance, that helps. Of course, that helps. And then also agreements with
08:17third countries. Just to give you an example, Mauritania, for instance, we have an agreement with Mauritania
08:22and the numbers were going down immediately. And now we have zero departures coming from Mauritania,
08:28just to give an example. We have other challenges, of course, and other challenging countries, but it helps.
08:34So bringing our European house in order is the first step. That's what we have to do with implementing
08:40the pact with the return regulation, with the safe country and others. And then the next step is the
08:46external dimension, negotiating with third countries and putting migration on the table when it comes to
08:52comprehensive agreements with third countries. Despite all these positive developments that you just
08:57described, migration is still a massive discontent among citizens and it still drives election campaigns.
09:09How do you explain that? Has migration policy become a political punching bag? Well, you can you can see and
09:15what you mentioned is is, of course, completely correct that it's at the heart of everyone. It's it's a topic where
09:21everyone is, of course, worried about also, which I totally understand, because 10 years ago, the European
09:29Union and Europe all together took a lot of responsibility when we had the crisis in Syria.
09:35A lot of responsibility, but we didn't have any rules. We didn't have a system. We didn't have control
09:40over what is happening in the European Union. And now with this pact, with the new legislation
09:45all together, we tried to get control back. And what what your question is in the direction your
09:52question was going, we need the trust of the people back. And with having control, with having
09:58rules, with having a system, we tried to get the trust of the people back between the member states
10:04also, but also to the people in Europe and to the citizens in Europe.
10:08Well, same with with Schengen, right? Whenever there were some migration issues,
10:11some countries closed the borders immediately. Is that trust building as well? Is that the way
10:17forward here? If Schengen becomes a thing you can pick whenever you want? No, no, of course. Schengen
10:22has to work. And I think Schengen is one of the the best examples how Europe can work the best
10:28achievements we have in Europe. And it has to work. What can we do to to make it work again is
10:36exactly implementing the pact, because in the pact, we have the the protection of our external borders.
10:41that is key to get rid of the internal border controls. And that's what the member states know,
10:46of course, there were there was pressure in the last in the last years. So I totally understand that
10:52some member states had to take measures there as well with internal border controls. But our aim
10:58altogether is, of course, to get rid of these internal border controls to make Schengen work.
11:04And Schengen is something which, of course, has to be developed all the time. We have to keep
11:09Schengen going and growing also. And it's still very, I would say, very interesting also for new
11:16for for new participants of the Schengen area, like we had Romania and Bulgaria just joining.
11:22We had Croatia joining. So a lot of member states want to join the Schengen area, which is great,
11:28which is a good sign because it's about free movement. It's about better, better economic
11:33growth also. And but we have to make sure that we protect our external borders. And that's what the
11:40practice is all about. And giving the member states in this case the trust back that we have control
11:47over who comes into the European Union and who leaves the European Union also. And just to mention one
11:53thing on the pack, because that's also very important, our entry exit system. We didn't know in the last
11:59years who actually on a digital basis who comes into the European Union when and where and who leaves
12:04it again. And now with the entry exit system, which we just introduced and started five weeks ago, where
12:11we already have more than eight million registrations in the first five weeks, which is a good sign. So for
12:17the first time we know who actually comes into the European Union, when and where, and then who leaves the
12:23European Union again, when and where. That is important because that's how we get that hopefully
12:30get the trust back because we have control over what is happening. One hot topic, especially in Germany,
12:36is the repatriation of people from Afghanistan. And what is controversial here is the fact that the
12:42government needs to talk to the Taliban in Afghanistan, the new rulers. Where do you come down on this?
12:49Is it legitimate to talk with the Taliban in order to get people home? We have to to differentiate
12:55between acknowledging that there is a government respecting the government, which we don't do, but
13:02not getting engaged with third countries, even though we don't like their governments and the way they're
13:07doing things is still important. So on a technical level, I totally understand and we support that as a
13:13commission as well. Our people, our experts were there in Kabul also to to talk about possibilities,
13:20because not getting engaged means it doesn't get better. So yes, it's not fun. It's not easy, but not
13:29getting engaged is not an option. So yes, I do think we have to talk to these countries. Even we don't, of course,
13:36recognize them as a government, but we have to talk to them. No option not to talk.
13:41So it is necessary to talk to countries that have a bad track record. Oh yes, it is still necessary on
13:48a technical level. As I said, we do that. Some member states do it with Afghanistan, for instance,
13:54and we had these examples with criminals and posing a security threat to the European Union to member states.
14:01and I think it's legitimate to to send them back and to find solutions with these
14:08these regions or countries to find solutions to to get them back to their countries. Yeah. Let's take a step
14:16back now and talk about the future of migration and how you see it, because getting people back
14:26is one thing. It's also the fact that we need people. We need skilled labor just to keep our countries
14:33safe and prosperous. How do you think about that? Should Europe approach countries like Australia and
14:40Canada with quota systems, etc.? Then they select certain professions that they need rather than
14:47others? Yes. We have to distinguish between the illegal migration part, which we have to do everything
14:53to fight against, because it's a business in the meantime for smugglers, for human traffickers,
14:59and that's what we have to fight against. So that's the illegal migration part. No doubt about that. But then, of course,
15:04we have the legal migration part and we need legal migration for our labor markets, of course, as you as you mentioned
15:11rightly. So finding legal pathways to come to Europe, but that it's us to decide who comes into the European Union
15:19and not the smugglers and the traffickers. That that is, I think, key. And then, of course, we have some humanitarian
15:24responsibility. Also, of course, when it comes to asylum seekers of people who are whose life is in
15:31danger, who are threatened by death in their countries. Of course, there we have another obligation. But
15:38distinguishing between those three topics is key. It's not always easy. But putting our and bringing our
15:46European house in order against illegal migration, only then I think we have the chance to find legal
15:52pathways. What we do on the legal part is we have we have issues like like talent pools, for instance,
16:00which we just decided on in the trial between parliament and and council where we had a decision
16:06already, a positive decision. We have talent partnerships with third countries. As I give you
16:11an example, we were in India as a college where it was also about about partnerships. How can we adjust
16:18also our partnerships there? And the Indians told us where we have a very good education,
16:25but maybe our education doesn't always match the skills you need in the European Union in the economy
16:31there. So adjusting there is something very, very concrete, but also with other regions in the world,
16:37of course. Recently, you have met the pope in Rome for an exchange of views. And you've said that the
16:44dialogue with the churches you consider a task that is very close to your heart. What do you expect from
16:50this dialogue? Well, I had a very good a very good meeting with with the pope, which is of course for
16:57me as a Catholic also quite a very exciting moment. And when it comes to substance, it was a really good
17:05discussion and meeting we had because we are on the same page, actually respecting human rights,
17:12respecting fundamental rights. Yes, but also fighting the human traffickers and the and getting control
17:17back in Europe. And I think the pope totally agree with that. And also the to distinguish between
17:24the different forms, the illegal part, the legal part and the humanitarian responsibility. The pope,
17:29of course, has backed the U.S. bishops in their criticism of the Trump administration and criticized the
17:37methods of that very radical migration policy and also the lack of respect for individuals. Do you
17:46think that the pope should get into this political arena and take take sides? It's not for me to judge
17:53what the pope has to do or doesn't have to do. But I think the pope is a is a very important and strong
17:59voice, of course, in the world, which is important. And getting his view is always good, I think.
18:07And that's why I was very happy to have this conversation with him. We take that very seriously
18:14as a European Union, of course, and the balance is always important. On the one hand, getting control
18:20back, showing the people and getting the trust also back of the people in Europe. And on the other hand,
18:27of course, respecting fundamental rights and human rights. But both can go hand in hand. It has to go
18:33hand in hand. But fighting the illegal part is so key in order to get the trust back and to get control
18:40back. The pope and you have one thing in common, that is the love of tennis. Is it is it true that you
18:46gave him a set of tennis ball with the EU logo on it? I did. I did. Yes, we thought. What did he say?
18:53Well, we thought about the present, which we bring to the pope. And we knew that Yannick Sinner,
18:59when he played in Rome, gave him a tennis racket. And of course, that's great for him. And then we
19:04thought, OK, it would be a good idea to give him the balls also with the European Union flag on it.
19:11He was he was very pleased. I think he at least he laughed at our at our president.
19:17You were president of the Austrian Tennis Federation. Exactly. Exactly. Fancy a match with the pope?
19:23I would love to have that. Of course, it would be a lifetime dream. Of course, that would be great.
19:28Now, but I'm not sure whether that's possible. But when you get that, you'll be back on the show again.
19:34Yeah, we'll see what the outcome is. But yes, I'm an incredibly keen tennis player at least.
19:42And I used to be president of the Austrian Tennis Federation. And my whole family is a completely
19:46keen tennis family. All right, Magnus Brunner, EU commissioner for internal affairs and migration.
19:52Thank you so much for a great Europe conversation. Thank you very much.
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