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In a never-before seen interaction, join THR India editor Anupama Chopra as she sits down with five visionary directors from across India for an insightful roundtable discussion in the first episode of THR India's roundtable. This star-studded panel features the incomparable Vetri Maaran and Pa. Ranjith from Tamil cinema, game-changers Karan Johar and Zoya Akhtar from Hindi cinema, and the multifaceted Mahesh Narayanan from Malayalam cinema.
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00:00Welcome, everyone. I am so thrilled to be sitting here with some of my favorite storytellers, with some of the best storytellers in this country.
00:11In the last few months, I've heard a lot of chatter about, at least in Hindi cinema, gloom and doom about the theatrical business scheme.
00:22It's a sunset industry. Streaming funds have dried up. No big films are being launched or made.
00:28I was speaking to Sailesh Kapoor at OMAX. He said that, irrespective of the bigger titles that are now going to release in the next few months,
00:37there's going to be a 10 to 20% drop for Hindi box office between 2023 and 2024.
00:44Does any of this impact on the stories that you guys are working on now? Do you pay attention to it?
00:51First, I think I need to clarify one thing here. It's not the theatrical box office that is failing.
01:00It is the inflation created by the OTT platforms that is failing now.
01:07See, like OTT barged in. They said like during the Covid times, like, okay, for one actor film, like, you know, one Rajinikanth film, one Vijay film,
01:15we'll give 120 crores, 100 crores, you buy, like, we will make it. Then the budgets became bigger, the salaries became bigger.
01:23And within a few months, they realized that it is not going, it's not sustainable for them, for the OTT platforms.
01:30Now, they are saying, okay, we can't give that much. We can't give that much.
01:34But, the production, I mean, the filmmakers have gotten used to making bigger films, and actors have gotten used to taking bigger salaries.
01:45What to do now?
01:47And also, the OTT platform now started to buy small films, especially, you know, the film festival films, they say very correct words.
01:58We don't want to film festival kind of films and art house films. And we're not to buy, ready to buy now. We're only concerned about the big films.
02:07Like, I don't know.
02:09What about you guys? Are you seeing?
02:11I'm just hearing everybody and I'm like, it's actually, it's not, unfortunately, like, the situation is very divisive.
02:19Like, right now, what a Hindi cinema, I'm just speaking about Hindi cinema.
02:22Yeah, okay. And I spoke about Tamil cinema.
02:25Tamil cinema.
02:26And you'll be actually happy to report that whether it's in Malayalam cinema and Tamil cinema, the audience base is wider for very, very, very, very diverse content.
02:40And, you know, there, you can have a director that will take newcomers and there will be a massive opening on the face of the film and just on the theatrical trailer and the director's repertoire of work.
02:50Hindi cinema is going through a massive situation. We must talk about it.
02:55Yeah.
02:55It's very important that we know that we, in Hindi cinema, firstly, we have a very polarizing audience.
03:01Our audience through states and within states, through areas of that state, like in Bombay, if you just say Bombay, is Mumbai, is Mumbai, Maharashtra, Saurashtra, Karnataka is all part of the same terrain, right?
03:12We call it the Mumbai territory. Delhi is Delhi, UP, Punjab, which is also Delhi, NCR and goes into Gurgaon.
03:18So, now, what will work in Bombay right up to Juhu may not work from beyond Juhu.
03:24And this has all happened post-pandemic. Let me tell you, there was a certain film.
03:27That kind of sharp division.
03:29There was a film like Pink and there was Nirja and there was Kapoor and Sons.
03:33And they all worked.
03:34There was Zindagi Na Milegi Dobara that began this very multiplex or that did over 90 crores of business.
03:40NBOC, when it started, everyone, all the trade pundits were like, this film is not going to make any money.
03:44Because it's about three people on a journey of finding themselves.
03:48That to a commercial audience seems like it's unheard of.
03:52It did way beyond. It had a cast.
03:54But that kind of film, today, I'm not sure how much money that film will do.
03:58I don't know what Kapoor and Sons did in 72 crores.
04:00Today, it might do 35-40.
04:02Because that base has reduced.
04:04What is the cinema-going audience of a certain kind of film has now, it has shrunk.
04:09In Hindi, it is true.
04:10And yet, you are either underperforming or overperforming.
04:13That middle road cinema is completely vanishing, which is maybe because it's not happening enough.
04:18And they're saying that there used to be film in cricket that used to be the two massive sources of entertainment.
04:24Post-pandemic, everybody wants the experience.
04:26Travel has increased.
04:28Hospitality has increased.
04:29And people, the average family in India does their math and say, we'll watch.
04:32They used to watch six to eight films a year.
04:34Now, they're watching two.
04:35So, suddenly, if it's a must-go-to film and they've seen the film before, like what happened with S3.
04:41Horror comedy is the most popular genre across Hindi cinema.
04:46I can't save the others.
04:49We have like big franchise.
04:51Horror comedy is the number one.
04:54Yeah, actually, that was that.
04:55Horror comedy is the number one genre.
04:56Now, we have grown to realize this.
04:58S3 didn't even realize that it's going to go and become, it's going to possibly be the, in archived history,
05:03then it possibly will be, and it's still collecting, it's touching 500.
05:07It might be the number one collecting Hindi language film.
05:12And it doesn't scream up.
05:14And the budget is 100 crores.
05:15You know, it is not crazy.
05:17It's not spent 300, 400.
05:19Look at the mass.
05:19It's a heartland business of that film.
05:21It's crazy.
05:22But it's also cities are collecting.
05:24Heartland is collecting.
05:25It's a rooted film.
05:26So, now everybody is like, it's rooted content.
05:29It's not that you can't tell urban stories.
05:31Of course, you can.
05:32But then all the actors who are charging what they charge for the big multiverse film,
05:37and they have to look at the way, and everybody has to come and make a film together and make it happen.
05:42We must tell all kinds of stories.
05:44And Hindi cinema is craving for all kinds of content that must be told.
05:47But the thing is that those movies don't do the numbers.
05:50And they collapse.
05:51And then you're not like getting the ability to make that film.
05:54Because, and no longer that, we've seen that superstars are no longer a reason for a film to open in Hindi.
05:59I mean, they were opening, they've got openings of 2 and 3 crores.
06:02I mean, this is Akshay Kumar's film.
06:03This is Ajay Devgan's film.
06:05But you and I have been talking about superstar salaries for donkey's film.
06:08I've been on the 12th round table, about how everybody has to look at their remuneration levels.
06:15And they have to address, and I'm saying it for the 55th time.
06:18But they are not going to know.
06:19But I've been screaming, I've been dealing with it.
06:21But Cara, you just have to stop paying.
06:22We are not paying.
06:23I don't know.
06:23You have to stop paying.
06:25You are actually speaking from Merala perspective.
06:27I've said, thank you very much, I cannot pay you.
06:30Bye-bye.
06:31Are you doing that?
06:32Yes.
06:33You should do that.
06:33I am not paying anyone if they are not.
06:36What is your last couple of films?
06:37Correct.
06:38What's the opening?
06:39How much have you opened to them?
06:40Yeah.
06:40With what right are you asking me for?
06:42If you see any film, all of us, recently, every film, I produced a small film called Kill.
06:49I spent the money on that film because that was a high concept with a rank newcomer.
06:52At the face of it.
06:53Because I started doing it.
06:54I'm like, I'm not going to, because every star we went to, because that was a high concept action film.
06:59You could not make Kill in any other way because it had to be in that train.
07:03Every star asked me for the same money that the budget was for.
07:06I was like, how can I pay you when the budget is 40 crores?
07:08You ask me for 40 crores.
07:09Are you guaranteeing me that the film will do 120 crores?
07:12No, there's no guarantee.
07:13Right?
07:14So, I did.
07:14So, finally, I took a new boy.
07:16We have to.
07:16And I think, like, Zoya will tell you.
07:18Like, Zoya has been creating some of the best content films.
07:21I think both Zoya and Farhan very importantly changed the language of films.
07:25Farhan did it in Dil Chata Hai.
07:27And Zoya went on and did it with her stream of films.
07:30We need to see those films as well.
07:32We need to tell those stories that are about, like, you know, about diverse subjects with interesting syntaxes.
07:38I mean, that's the problem.
07:39Now, everybody's like, oh, your film is not rooted.
07:41It's not mainstream commercial.
07:42It will not do the numbers.
07:43Don't make it.
07:44How can you stop making films?
07:46You have to tell all kinds of stories.
07:47Today, I met Shakun Batra who directed Kapoor and Sons.
07:50He's traumatized.
07:51Because he's like, what do I do?
07:52How do I make a film that's going to get, like, the business and box office?
07:55I'm like, you do you.
07:56You make what you need to.
07:58We'll make it work.
07:58What part of filmmaking do you like the most and what part do you like the least, Mahesh?
08:05Like, I started as an editor.
08:07Yes.
08:07So, you know that.
08:08You've done more than 100 films.
08:09Yeah, yeah.
08:10I'm 60, 60 plus.
08:11So, the thing is, like, I write for my editor always.
08:14So, writing is the toughest part.
08:17Writing is always the toughest part.
08:18So, that is where the cinema lies there.
08:22It's the toughest part.
08:23In the writing.
08:24Yeah.
08:24So, that process is the most...
08:26Like, even if it comes in, like, say, for example, if you look like Siyu Sun was written in two weeks.
08:31But it's not that if it's written in two weeks.
08:33But it's about writing something out, which is conceptualized in terms of an edit.
08:38And then, like, you know, you're making it like that.
08:41But sometimes, you know, you have to take time into that.
08:44Your mind goes bizarre in that process.
08:48But you like it.
08:49Yeah, I like it.
08:50What do you like the least?
08:52The least is, like, you know, when you wait for something.
08:57Like, you know, when you wait.
08:58I mean, like, here we say, wait for green lighting.
09:01Like, you know, in Malayalam, the green lighting happens in three days.
09:04Like, sometimes an actor sits here.
09:06Like, actor will be the producer itself.
09:08You know, he signed six actors for K3G in one day.
09:11Oh, yeah.
09:11It was superb.
09:12That's my very capital person.
09:14That was 70.
09:152000 and 2000.
09:16I don't think I'll manage to cast six actors today in one day.
09:20I may not get to their homes only either way.
09:21There is the traffic in the city.
09:23I went to all six homes on one day also.
09:25So here, when you wait, when you wait, the problem what happens is, like, your story gets expired.
09:30Yeah.
09:31Your film gets expired.
09:32That's the main problem.
09:33Like, you know, you write something and you start shooting it in three years later or two and a half years later.
09:40It is expired.
09:41By that time, you have to fetch new ideas.
09:44The entire screenplay is gone.
09:45You have to rewrite it.
09:47So that is the biggest challenge what I'm facing.
09:48Yeah.
09:49Yeah.
09:50For you, what do you like the most?
09:51I just, when he said writing, I just looked at Zoe because I know how much she loves writing.
09:56To me, it's the most lonely process.
09:58I can't say I hate it because there's so much gorgeousness about creating characters, writing narratives, stories.
10:04But it's very daunting.
10:05It's very scary.
10:06And it's very, like, you know the days that you're going through those days that nothing comes out of your head.
10:11And those are such awful, scary days.
10:13And then suddenly when a great scene is written.
10:15So writing to me is daunting.
10:16I can't say I hate any part of filmmaking because it's in your core.
10:19It's in your DNA.
10:20But daunting, yes, writing.
10:22Very traumatic phase for any filmmaker, specifically me.
10:26What I love the most, I have to say, not just the execution of filming, it's the background music process.
10:33Like, I love, love.
10:36Oh my God, I love it.
10:37I love that process the most.
10:39I just love how you can just, like a symphony, like an orchestra, you can elevate a moment.
10:45And, you know, good old days when I did Kuch Kuch and Kabhi Kushi, my first two films.
10:49I had the massive good fortune of actually seeing a score with an absolute large live orchestra.
10:58You know, there used to be chorus.
11:00There was the 40 violinists.
11:02There were flutes.
11:03And there was this massive empire in Andhiri.
11:05It has this huge, where I saw Babluda, who was like the music arranger.
11:09And there was live orchestra.
11:11And Lata Ji standing there in her console, singing the Aalap from Kabhi Kushi.
11:15And the violins along with her.
11:17There was a flute with Basuri.
11:19You know, the Basuri came, which was Manurida, which his Basuri was cut.
11:23And I was like, to me, that was cinema.
11:26And I don't have that privilege anymore of doing that.
11:29But still, when I'm in the background score, when there is a chorus and there is…
11:33And I'm still, I'm a big believer in the old school background score.
11:36You should do one film with Ilan Aja.
11:39I would love to.
11:41I mean, I'm such a big fan.
11:42And he's such a genius.
11:43But I think that's my favorite part of the pre or post of a film is really the score.
11:49The background score.
11:50How lovely.
11:50How lovely.
11:51Zoya.
11:52It's also very peaceful to be in music.
11:55It's a very…
11:56I love writing.
11:57I have to say.
11:58I absolutely love writing.
11:59And I love shooting.
12:00I like the energy of a shoot.
12:02When you come out of the writing process, which is quite quiet.
12:05Nine to five.
12:05And that's the only nine to five part of my life.
12:07But shooting has got energy.
12:11It's got adrenaline.
12:12I love the alchemy of the actors, the costumes, the people, camera, everything together.
12:17I don't like editing.
12:19I see all my mistakes.
12:21It's like sunset.
12:23Writing is sunrise and editing is sunset.
12:26It's like…
12:26You just have to…
12:27You know, there's all this possibility in writing and then you're saving in editing.
12:32I don't like that.
12:33And I hate dubbing.
12:35Like, I hate it.
12:36Oh, that's… I mean, if you can avoid it…
12:38But you really do dub it.
12:39Yeah, but you have to.
12:40Some scenes you have to.
12:42And I just don't enjoy it.
12:44I don't like it.
12:45Yeah.
12:46For me, it's…
12:47Like, I like everything about filmmaking.
12:50Editing the most, I would say.
12:53Like, I edit for a year.
12:55For a year?
12:55Yeah, more than a year.
12:56But that's great.
12:58I hope to take long.
12:58Reeshud here, he's enjoying it.
13:01What do you hurt?
13:02One thing I don't like about a film is wrapping up a film.
13:06I don't want to finish a film then.
13:09So, like…
13:10I would like to have…
13:11I would like to have a few more months.
13:14Like, one more month extra.
13:16Another 10 days of shoot extra.
13:18That's me.
13:19Ranjit?
13:20I really love, while I'm writing, you know.
13:24Too personal.
13:25There is no one to enter my space.
13:28And like, I just enjoy.
13:30I keep writing, writing, writing.
13:31I explore my overall, what I have.
13:35But while you have to read other person,
13:37it will come from now.
13:39They'll say, no, you have to edit this.
13:41You have to…
13:42Don't art like this.
13:44So, I hate…
13:45Really.
13:46So, it's a…
13:48The art is very personal.
13:50Like, it's kind of conscious, you know.
13:52Whatever we…
13:53We connect with something, you know.
13:56We need to explore two things, you know.
13:58But sometimes, most of the problems, you know.
14:03And who's going to read and what they read and all.
14:06They're not connected.
14:07And like, I'm trying to find some word.
14:09And like, recollecting, reconnecting.
14:11And that is…
14:12I'm enjoying.
14:13Well, I'm enjoying.
14:15Enjoying, you know.
14:16You cannot give that word.
14:18Like, enter that word.
14:19I don't want to come out that word.
14:21While I'm writing.
14:22But the shooting, you know, I hate it.
14:26Shooting.
14:26You know, shooting.
14:27Being director, yeah.
14:28Being director, it is really.
14:30I love shooting.
14:31I don't like it.
14:32Really?
14:32It's true.
14:33Because of that, you know.
14:34A lot of person come and like, you know.
14:37Your world is getting destroyed.
14:39They come and mess up your good thoughts.
14:41I love.
14:42If you tell something, like, if you give some words.
14:45And like, they'll understand.
14:46And they'll try to convey, you know.
14:49It is a big process.
14:50And you have to be.
14:51You have to have a lot of patience.
14:54And you just say.
14:55I'm not an anger person also.
14:57I just come and sit and watch and watch.
15:00And I go and read the correction.
15:04And I'll say action.
15:06I'm just waiting for my good take.
15:08But, you know.
15:09I need to be more patient.
15:12And sometimes, you know.
15:14And sometimes, a lot of days, you know.
15:16I don't want to direct.
15:17And I just want to throw.
15:19To get out of the set.
15:20Oh God, I feel you.
15:22In many cases, like, when you're outdoors and that weather is bad.
15:25And everybody is in Russian.
15:27It is not.
15:27I'm like, that's not how I want to make a movie.
15:30It's challenging me.
15:31The craft is challenging me.
15:33And sometimes, I couldn't do it at a proper level.
15:37So, I feel bad about myself.
15:40You're doing some worst thing.
15:43You cannot do like that.
15:44It's challenging me.
15:46My thoughts and like, you know.
15:47It's my writing.
15:48It's worse.
15:49When I'm going to read something, what I wrote, you know.
15:53The words are challenging me.
15:54The creatives are challenging me.
15:56But, a person, a director, you know.
15:59I wanted to ask, help some, like, no actors and camera.
16:05Like, no, that is challenging me.
16:09But, I'm trying to connect with all crafts.
16:12And I just, sometimes, if I don't like also.
16:17Okay, this is good.
16:18Okay.
16:20Okay, we can show that.
16:22And, yeah.
16:23Absolutely.
16:23In editing, you know.
16:25Editing shows me everything.
16:26I'm the worst person in the world.
16:29And after I finish that movie, it's got released in theater and everywhere.
16:33I don't want to see my movie.
16:35That is my reason.
16:36I don't want to see.
16:37Same.
16:38Just let go.
16:39No, if I hear the sound, the sound also.
16:41I just want to stop immediately.
16:43I just, I don't want to see any visuals.
16:46I just, if it comes to any visuals, I just turn.
16:48And, like, you know that?
16:49And, Sarpata Parambra, first day, OTT, telecasting, that day, you know, I just sitting and watching sometimes.
16:57And I disconnected with that movie.
17:01I didn't like that movie.
17:03I don't know.
17:04I run away.
17:06I run away in my room and, like, people are watching.
17:08I didn't watch.
17:09I love that movie.
17:10Yeah, I still love.
17:11I don't know.
17:12Like, in all my movies, told me very clearly, it is your bad movies.
17:19I was just trying to make a good movie.
17:22This has been so much fun.
17:24Yeah.
17:24Genuinely, I have had such a great time and I wish to God we could just go on, but thank you all.
17:30And, you know, for me, the glass is always half full.
17:34I think the theatrical experience is going nowhere.
17:38We're going to be watching your movies.
17:40I will die in a theatre.
17:42On that happy note, thank you.
17:46And you do you always.
17:49Hi, this is Karan Johar.
17:52Hi, my name is Mahesh Narayanan.
17:53Hi, I'm Paranjiv.
17:55Hi, I'm Zoya Akhtar.
17:56I am Viltri Maran.
17:57Please subscribe to Hollywood Reporter, India.
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