Europe Today: Europejska kontrpropozycja ws. Ukrainy
Euronews uruchamia nowy program Europe Today, nadawany na żywo codziennie o 8:00. W programie omawiane i analizowane będą kluczowe wydarzenia z Unii Europejskiej i ze świata. Program poprowadzą Méabh Mc Mahon oraz Maria Tadeo.
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00:30Coming up today, it is a historic week for Ukraine and Europe with the future of the continent's security at stake.
00:37The Swiss city of Geneva took centre stage yesterday for high-stake talks about the controversial 28-point US-Russia plan for Ukraine.
00:46EU ambassadors also huddled in Brussels last night to work on a counter-proposal to give Kiev more skip-base to negotiate a better deal.
00:54But the clock is still ticking towards a deadline set by President Trump for this Thursday Thanksgiving.
01:01To get up to speed, let's bring in now Euronews' EU editor, Maria Tadeo.
01:04Maria, good morning.
01:05Good morning.
01:06Look, we're hearing there was progress in Geneva and that deadline could be flexible.
01:09But what's your take on the Geneva talks?
01:11Well, absolutely.
01:12Maeve, this was certainly the most intense diplomatic effort since the war started.
01:16Of course, we had seen in the days prior the US administration really ramping up the pressure on Ukraine, repeating this deadline on Thursday Thanksgiving Day.
01:25And of course, President Trump also tweeting that Ukrainians, they are simply not grateful.
01:30But on Sunday in Geneva, we did see Marco Rubio, the top US diplomat, take down some of that temperature,
01:36saying there is work that is going through and work is being done.
01:40Let's take a look.
01:41Let's take a look.
01:41Thank you.
02:11SIDELINES OF THIS MEETING ON THE MONDAY, THERE HAS BEEN A LOT OF LEAKS OVER THE WEEKEND ABOUT DOCUMENTS IN TERMS OF THIS COUNTER PROPOSAL.
02:19Euronews has seen them.
02:20We have to stress two points.
02:22One is the European leadership is not officially endorsing any of these documents,
02:26but the direction they want to take, and sources are very clear to Euronews on this,
02:30is that they want to seize and ease some of the pressure on the territorial concessions.
02:34The idea that the frozen assets would be released and given to Russia, that is an absolute no-go.
02:40They also want to stress that there would be no veto to Ukraine when it comes to NATO.
02:44If Ukraine does not join NATO, it's not because of Russia.
02:47It would be because there is simply no consensus around NATO allies.
02:52They also want to stress the idea of a ceasefire, too.
02:54So that is the direction they want to take.
02:56And then 2 May, for the Europeans now, this is about also the optics.
02:59They do not want to be seen as wanting to sink this plan because they fear they could get the worst end of the stick from President Trump.
03:06The goal now is to sway this proposal to also buy more time for Kiev to get a better deal.
03:12And I should also stress, none of the diplomats that I spoke to over the weekend believe this can be done by Thursday,
03:17just simply because of the complexity of this proposal.
03:21But again, this diplomatic push from the Europeans continue in that direction.
03:25Indeed. And for now, the Americans, of course, have left.
03:27Geneva, thank you so much.
03:28Maria Tadeo, Euronews's EU editor, keeping across that story for us.
03:32And for more, of course, on this developing story, do visit Euronews.com for longer reads and analysis.
03:38But coming up, we'll be joined here in the studio by Michał Baranowski,
03:42the Polish trade minister who's in Brussels today,
03:45for what are set to be very, very frank talks between the Americans and the Europeans about the fraught EU-US trade deal.
03:53The EU signed up to an unbalanced deal on tariffs to stabilise relations with the US and assure support for Ukraine.
04:00But it is not sure that that bet will pay off.
04:03Minister Baranowski, welcome to Europe today.
04:05Great to be with you.
04:06Thank you so much for joining us on what is a very intense, busy day for you.
04:09But first, a critical week as well for the Ukrainians and the Europeans.
04:13But the Europeans are not getting a seat at the table here.
04:15Well, we are getting there.
04:17You know, it's a little bit confusing, the situation around the peace plan.
04:20It turns out that this is an opening bid rather than a final proposal.
04:25We are now back at the new stage of the negotiations.
04:29The initial proposal, I think it was clear, was not balanced.
04:35So that's been put in the dustbin, has it?
04:37The 28th plan that clearly had the fingerprints of the Kremlin all over.
04:40Is that ditched? Is it in the bin?
04:41I would not say it that far.
04:44Look, and it's in the end for Ukrainian government to decide what they can accept or not.
04:49But it's not Ukraine's, not only Ukraine's security, it's very much Europe's security.
04:53Therefore, we are at the table.
04:55We are the biggest backer, both financial and militarily, of Ukraine.
04:59And that makes perfect sense for us to be very much part of the plan.
05:03And that's where the Europeans are meeting today in Angola.
05:06I mean, on the sidelines of the EU-Africa meeting.
05:08Will they be able to sway this?
05:09I'm very hopeful and optimistic.
05:12I really cannot imagine, frankly, let's imagine the opposite scenario, in which Europeans are not part of the solution.
05:20How would it work?
05:21Who would pay for it?
05:22Who would provide security guarantees with the United States?
05:26In the end, we all want, and I'm convinced that President Trump as well, wants a stable peace, not only something that will be taken advantage of by the Russian government, that has a long history of walking away from any agreements that they signed the day before.
05:45And as I said, the Americans have left Geneva, but their counterparts have arrived here in Brussels.
05:50And that's why you're here for high stakes trade talks.
05:52I mean, the EU agreed to the 15% tariffs on the basis that the deal would provide stability and keep the US engaged.
05:58But given what we know now, Minister, should we reject this deal that was signed off back in July?
06:02No, we should not.
06:04I mean, this is a deal that provided stability.
06:06We are meeting today with Secretary Lutnik and USTR Greer to talk about where we are.
06:14It provided stability and also in comparison to other US deals.
06:20This is actually a pretty decent deal that Europe got.
06:24Would I be happier if it was more balanced, if we got a bigger slice of the pie?
06:29Absolutely.
06:30But I think we'll be looking at both what has been signed and the bigger strategic picture, because also what has happened is we have seen, for example, China putting a dependency on rare metals right on the table as a big gun, both against the US and against Europe.
06:47And today is all about the nitty gritty.
06:48I mean, what kind of exemptions will you be trying to get today?
06:51It's not only about the nitty gritty.
06:53The nitty gritty is, to a large extent, done by the Commission that put forward an action plan.
07:01I could go into the details, but I think those might be a little bit too detailed.
07:05I think today we are aiming to get a big picture with Lutnik and Greer that we are moving in the right direction, both on our part, but also on their part.
07:14There is, for example, steel tariffs that are still to be fully taken care of.
07:19But I suspect that we'll be talking not only about the bilateral aspect, but also about overproduction coming from third countries, so to say.
07:30And tech, of course, is coming into these trade talks as well.
07:33I mean, is the US trying to push you to change your digital rules and legislation?
07:37I would be surprised if digital rules were not voiced by the Americans.
07:43It would be out of character.
07:46Europe is very clear that we are providing a stable base for everyone to engage also in services, in digital services.
07:58But we are not going to walk away from our sovereign regulations.
08:02So we can talk about the impact on our businesses, on American businesses.
08:08But that's one of the red lines that I don't think we'll all of a sudden say, OK, forget about the digital regulations.
08:16We'll just do what you tell us.
08:18That's a red line.
08:18And just to go back to Ukraine and the reconstruction, who should pay when it comes to these frozen Russian assets?
08:24That was the main tool the Europeans had on the table, but it seems to be scuppered now.
08:27I don't think it's done.
08:30Look, it is, as you say, one of the key questions.
08:34Russia, it's clear who has to pay at the end.
08:37It is Russia.
08:38Russia is the aggressor.
08:39We happen as Europe to have the frozen assets that can be used through a loan to finance Ukraine over the next two years to the tune of 140 billion.
08:49And I don't think this is gone.
08:52We do need to make sure that that tool is preserved in our pocket.
08:55OK, we keep an eye on that.
08:56Thank you so much, Minister, for being with us and best of luck for your busy day.
08:59Now, as I said, another major point on the minds of Europeans is, of course, the plan to use Russian frozen assets to fund the reconstruction of Ukraine.
09:08But President Trump's plans throws the reparations known for the country into disarray, as Jakob Janus reports.
09:13You don't have the cut.
09:18That is what Donald Trump told President Zelensky earlier this year.
09:23But Brussels thought it held an ace, the frozen Russian assets.
09:27Now, the 28-point US peace plan has called out Europe's hand.
09:32And the port is massive.
09:35Estimated 300 billion euros in Russian central bank assets are frozen across the G7 countries.
09:42The vast majority, 185 billion euros, is locked right here in Belgium by Euroclear, a securities depository.
09:50Brussels plans to use the Russian frozen assets to issue an unprecedented reparations loan for Ukraine.
09:57But the US plan flips the script with a controversial proposal.
10:01Unblock the funds and split them into two investment vehicles.
10:05Fund number one for Ukraine's reconstruction.
10:09100 billion dollars of the frozen assets would be deployed and Europe would have to front another 100 billion of its own cash.
10:17The catch?
10:18The US takes 50% of the profits.
10:21Fund number two.
10:22A US-Russian joint venture.
10:24The rest of the money will be invested in projects for Moscow.
10:28Far from paying reparations for attacking its neighbor, the Kremlin is rewarded with a commercial opportunity.
10:35The result?
10:36Moscow gets a win, Washington flips a profit, and Europe loses its main leverage.
10:42Brussels is not at the table.
10:44And it may end up reduced to a spectator with a very expensive bill to pay.
10:52And for more on this, we can bring in now Tomas Hendrik Ives, the former president of Estonia, who's joining us this morning from Bucharest.
11:01Great to have you with us.
11:02Thank you for talking to Europe today.
11:05Great to be here.
11:07Look, let's talk about money in just a minute, sir.
11:09But first, your thoughts on the Trump plan.
11:11Do you think it's a big win for the Kremlin?
11:13Oh, it's a fantastic win for the Kremlin, at least as it was originally proposed.
11:20And it's probably not the Trump plan.
11:23It's the Trump-Putin plan.
11:24I mean, it's clear that everything in that original document is in favor of Moscow and is in every way against what Ukraine needs.
11:42And they're the victim.
11:43And could it weaken Ukraine, you think, and perhaps benefit American and Russian investors?
11:47Well, it's clear from there that it's seen as a business deal.
11:53And the collateral damage is to Ukraine and a little bit more, an additional collateral damage to Europe, which ends up footing the bill.
12:05So what should the Europeans be doing here?
12:06I mean, they've come up with a counterproposal last night.
12:08Ambassadors were meeting.
12:09EU leaders will meet today in Angola.
12:11What should they be doing here?
12:12Well, it's clear this plan cannot fly without the Europeans.
12:17I mean, the Europeans are supposed to be paying for it, ultimately.
12:23And moreover, I mean, the plan as originally foreseen, without even consulting, Europeans says, OK, planes will be based in Poland without ever asking Poland, where does this come from?
12:36So this will not fly.
12:39Ultimately, if the Europeans scupper this deal, then nothing will happen.
12:45Then nothing will happen.
12:46And what about the frozen Russian assets?
12:48The Europeans were banking on using this to reconstruct Ukraine, but now it seems to be a little bit in disarray.
12:53Who should pay here, the Europeans or the Russians?
12:57Well, it's an ongoing discussion.
13:00It is not, we have not gotten to the end of it.
13:03And the Europeans are not paying.
13:05I mean, this money is, these are frozen Russian assets.
13:09And the dispute is where, how do we get those funds?
13:14And that's where the discussions are going with, going on with the Belgians.
13:19But otherwise, I mean, this, this money is Russia's and it will be spent on, on reparations and on repairing, repairing Ukraine once this war is over.
13:31OK, Thomas Hendrik, guys, thank you so much for joining us and being our guest this morning on Europe Today.
13:38And thank you so much for watching, because that does indeed bring this edition to an end.
13:43For more news and headlines, do take a look at euronews.com or download the Euronews app to stay afloat of all the developing stories.
13:51I'll be back tomorrow, bright and early Tuesday, live here on Euronews.
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