Levain Bakery Co-Founders on New Book, Expansion Plans

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00:00So as we've been talking about, it's an interesting time for the consumer because,

00:04okay, inflation really sticky. When it comes to prices, they're certainly elevated relative to

00:09where they have been over the past decade or so. And Connie, I'll start with you. You guys are

00:13celebrating 30 years in business. You've seen a lot of different types of environments when it

00:18comes to this economy. How does that impact your business and the cookies and everything else that

00:25you sell? Yeah. You know, like you said, we've been around for 30 years. We've seen so many different

00:30things happen in the world and in the economy. And it seems as though people always seem to want

00:37a treat, whether in good times or bad. So they always seem to find their way to us. So we're

00:43fortunate in that respect. Yeah, it's interesting, right? It sort of falls into the accessible luxury

00:48category. It's still a treat that isn't going to break the bank unless the cookies are made out of

00:53gold. But Pam, talk to us about what it's meant from your side, too, when it comes to sourcing

00:58ingredients, things along those lines. We know that egg prices have been all over the place,

01:03not to talk about cocoa as well. And I wonder what that feels like from the perspective of where

01:08you're sitting and trying to expand as well. Well, you know, as Connie said, we've been doing this for

01:1330 years now. And so we've seen a lot of a lot of different things happen that affect prices and

01:18costing. But we stick to what we do. We focus on what we do well. And we're not going to

01:23change the quality of our ingredients. And, you know, we just stick to that.

01:29I am curious just about just starting a business, any type of business, particularly in a city like

01:33New York, which is high cost, high rents and high labor costs, etc. here. Can people replicate what

01:39you did in this day and age relative to what you started 30 years ago? I think it would be really

01:44different. It was a completely different time. I mean, there were there was no social media. It was

01:48really a very different time. So I feel really lucky that we did it then. There were challenges

01:55then and, you know, different challenges now. I am curious, though, Connie, too, about just this idea

01:59of the expansion that you've had. I mean, 19 stores is a lot, but that's relatively slow. And we've seen,

02:05particularly in this new economy, somebody will come up with an idea. There'll be sort of one shot for a

02:11couple of years and they get some private equity money. And next thing you know, they're on every corner,

02:14you know, you know, around the city for for better or for worse. And I am curious as to did you not

02:19ever have that opportunity? Or were you just not tempted by that? That's really the reason why Pam

02:23and I are on the earth right now. Yeah, we have we have appointed ourselves the guardians of the

02:30brand. Yeah. And although we have an amazing team and and everyone kind of feels that we all feel very

02:36passionate about just that not happening. So while we do, we are expanding 19 stores is great. It's a lot

02:43more than we ever thought we would have. But by comparison, it's really just a very small amount.

02:49So again, like next year, we open two stores this year. We plan to open two stores next year.

02:53So very slowly. And like what you were asking, Pam, we are finding, I think, a real key is to find also

03:01real estate that is affordable. That's, you know, that's in a great location, but that the rents are

03:07manageable and it can be done. It just takes a little more time. Most of your shops, at least the ones I've

03:12been in. Pardon me? Most of the shops you have, at least the ones I've been into, are relatively small.

03:16Yes. Really small. Yes. Is that deliberate? It is deliberate. Yeah. I mean, we don't need a huge

03:21location and we also like the intimate feeling it has. You know, we look for real estate where we can

03:26become a part of the community. I mean, that's we want to recreate that 74th Street experience from 30

03:32years ago everywhere that we open. I'd love to talk a little bit about the menu as well, because you

03:37actually began by baking bread. Now, of course, the cookie is so well known when it comes to that

03:42enormous puck that you got from Levain. And how do you think about expanding the menu? How, what does

03:49the decision tree look like when you're thinking about, you know, adding a baked good or item?

03:54Again, it's very, very careful, very methodical. We want to be sure that, that whatever we end up putting

04:02on our menu is really good. We like to think that people come to Levain knowing that whatever

04:08they try is going to be really good, not thinking, oh gosh, I wonder, because, you know, you never

04:13really know because we're always trying something. So that's like one of the real keys.

04:16Yeah. I think people like knowing that they can expect something specific and a quality that

04:24they know and love. And we also, we don't make anything that we, Connie and I, don't love ourselves.

04:30So I think that really helps. Yeah, absolutely. Sort of the repeatable experience too, when it comes

04:35to the consistency of the quality, I, you know, you think about a lot of change that are trying

04:41to expand and certainly there's pit holes there. Let's talk a little bit about the book, because

04:46again, you've been in business for 30 years. Obviously you guys have been friends since before

04:51that too. Why now to write this book and release it? I think that we finally, you know, took a step

04:59back and we are kind of stepping back a little bit and there were like so many stories that

05:04we wanted to share. Um, and also people that wanted to share our story, like with us in

05:10the book, there are so many people that, that share their stories and it was really, um, very

05:14at times like super emotional. Um, I think our story is really about the people so much, not

05:22just us, our customers, our team members, our vendors. And we talk a lot about that in the book

05:28and a lot of people shared their stories and it was really so amazing. It's so gratifying

05:32and I hope, you know, you'll read the book and enjoy it. Um, you know, I think we created

05:37a brand in a slightly different way than most people. Yeah. We had one really interesting

05:42thing. We did a podcast with, um, it was an entrepreneurial podcast and the, the host of

05:49the podcast said that the book was one of the most like important entrepreneurial books

05:55that he, cause it was just different, you know, the approach that we took perspective.

05:59Yeah.

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