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World's Most Evil Killers S01E07
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00:00In the autumn of 1984, in Paris, France, two men embarked on a brutal crime spree.
00:14In just six weeks, they attacked nine elderly women in their homes,
00:19intent on taking their money and their lives.
00:23It was a spree, without any doubt, and the spree of the most murderous kind.
00:2821-year-old Thierry Paulin and his partner Jean-Thierry Maturin tortured their victims,
00:35even killing one of the women by making her drink drain cleaner.
00:40I must admit that when I studied the case files, the photos and pictures were awful.
00:46It was difficult, very difficult.
00:50But after the couple split, it was Paulin who went on to become even more prolific,
00:55eventually confessing to killing 21 women when he was arrested in December 1987.
01:04He really was the worst criminal I have ever seen in the course of my long career.
01:10The worst.
01:12Thierry Paulin had undeniably become one of the world's most evil killers.
01:18It was a series of senseless killings that left the whole of France stunned.
01:45When 24-year-old Thierry Paulin was apprehended on the 1st of December 1987,
01:53he admitted to the murder of at least 21 helpless elderly women.
01:58In a series of killing sprees across three years,
02:01Paulin, a thief, left behind no witnesses at his crime scenes,
02:05as he brutally strangled his victims to death.
02:08Detectives Jean-Claude Moulet and Claude Perroni had the task of bringing Paulin to justice.
02:15We were literally under immense pressure.
02:24The only thing we were afraid of was being on call.
02:28In other words, would a phone call wake us up that night?
02:31Headquarters calling us about a case, telling us about the killing of an old lady.
02:37We dreaded finding more victims every time.
02:40Paulin was not a serial killer.
02:54He was a spree killer.
02:56A serial killer is a pathological killer who kills to experience a physical, amoral pleasure.
03:02In other words, he enjoys the terror he inspires in others.
03:06The spree killer is different.
03:07Paulin was a born criminal.
03:10In inverted commas, he was complete riff-raff.
03:13Attacking a grandmother is a triumph without peril which brings no glory.
03:17In a twist of fate, Paulin himself would be dead before the trial of his accomplice,
03:32Jean-Thierry Maturin, in December 1991.
03:35Philippe Bilgey was prosecuting.
03:43Paulin escaped the trial.
03:45Unfortunately, it was AIDS that killed him.
03:48And, of course, we can lament the fact that the mastermind, the instigator, was never brought to justice.
03:54This much is clear.
03:56Forgive me for being crude, but the criminal justice system took what was left.
04:01In other words, Maturin.
04:07Maturin was on trial for the murder of eight women in just over one month during the autumn of 1984.
04:14The details of the slayings were shocking, even to Maturin's defence lawyer, Michelle Arnault.
04:20The photos and pictures were awful.
04:24It was difficult, very difficult.
04:27I must admit that when I studied the case files, I made sure that I didn't, I didn't have lunch.
04:33I didn't have dinner.
04:35I couldn't.
04:36I couldn't.
04:37The killings always followed the same horrific ritual.
04:41Thierry Paulin pushed them into the flat, holding their mouths.
04:50Jean-Thierry Maturin closed the door.
04:52And from that moment on, Thierry Paulin hit them to get them to tell them where the money was.
04:58Jean-Thierry Maturin went to look for electrical cables to tie them up, so Thierry Paulin could tie them up.
05:04He went to search the flat.
05:06If the victim revealed where the money was, Jean-Thierry Maturin went to check if it was there.
05:12And in the meantime, Thierry Paulin became incensed and ended up strangling them.
05:24This killer's story begins over 50 years ago.
05:29Thierry Paulin was born in the former French colony of Martinique in the Caribbean
05:34on the 28th of November, 1963.
05:38His teenage parents split up within days of his birth.
05:42His father abandoned he and his mother pretty shortly after his birth
05:47and went to France.
05:53Thierry remained in Martinique and was effectively brought up
05:56by his paternal grandmother who owned a restaurant
06:01and apparently neglected him.
06:03He made an attempt to go back to live with his mother,
06:07who by this point had remarried and had another family,
06:11but he didn't fit in incredibly well with that.
06:13In fact, he was a troubled young man.
06:16This is a young lad who's being passed from pillar to post.
06:19He doesn't have a lot of stability.
06:21He doesn't have a lot of routine.
06:23And life is quite chaotic.
06:25He's somebody who finds that he never settles in anywhere
06:29and he never really has a sense of belonging.
06:33After moving to France, Paulin joined the army,
06:36but he was reportedly picked on for being of mixed race
06:40and a homosexual.
06:42In 1984, the 21-year-old moved to Paris.
06:47When he left the army, he went to live with his mother
06:50and he got a job at an entertainment venue
06:54that had a reputation for transvestite performers
06:57and he joined in with this.
06:59I think this was the first time in his life
07:01when he really felt a sense of belonging.
07:04And Thierry was homosexual
07:05and he developed a relationship with a man he met at this place.
07:12Paulin's new lover was 19-year-old Jean-Thierry Maturin.
07:16The like-minded couple had aspirations of performing on the stage
07:20and they also shared a passion for dressing in drag.
07:25I think if we look at his relationship,
07:28being homosexual in France at this time
07:31still carried quite a significant degree of social stigma.
07:35So even though he's found his place in the world,
07:38other people are still judging him
07:40and I think that's something that is always going to trouble him.
07:43The couple began living together in a hotel called the Laval.
07:48The flamboyant pair had become addicted to drugs
07:51and weren't living within their means.
07:55It was the world of nightlife.
07:58They were invited to all the big Parisian parties.
08:01There were transvestites, people who loved to dress up,
08:04so they put on a real show.
08:05I think they really loved each other.
08:16I think there was real love there.
08:18But as part of that, Paulin dominated his partner,
08:21which explains a lot the influence that Maturin was under.
08:25He existed through Paulin.
08:27Obviously, I didn't see them in their everyday lives.
08:41I didn't see them living together.
08:43I didn't see them laughing.
08:46I didn't see them in their most intimate moments.
08:50But I think it's clear that Paulin dominated Maturin
08:53and gave him the drugs he needed.
08:56As so often in life, and that's also true for criminals,
09:00there was a strong one and a weak one in this couple.
09:03And the weak one was dragged into a life of crime by Paulin
09:07during these atrocities in 1984.
09:10That much is clear.
09:11To pay for their lavish lifestyle,
09:18Paulin, with Maturin in tow, turned to crime.
09:21Each case, the motive was straightforward, money.
09:26Maturin and Paulin wanted to have a good time.
09:29They wanted to go out, they wanted to party,
09:32they wanted to go to nightclubs,
09:33they wanted to indulge their appetite for drugs,
09:36they wanted to wear different clothes,
09:38they wanted to be acknowledged as homosexual,
09:40and they were intent on having as good a time as possible.
09:46It was a spree, without any doubt,
09:49and a spree of the most murderous kind.
09:58We had two criminals, under the influence of drugs,
10:02who were completely remorseless and were looking for money,
10:05who laid waste to the scenes of their crimes,
10:07carrying out the worst kind of atrocities
10:10on these unfortunate old ladies.
10:16The old women were coming back
10:18from either the post office or the market.
10:21They came back with food and bread, etc.,
10:23and which was found scattered on the floor in the doorway.
10:26It was child's play to push open the door and enter behind them,
10:34and then to subject them to mental and physical torture.
10:39The attacks were shocking in their brutality.
10:42The killers ripped off their victims' clothes,
10:45burnt their feet,
10:45and even smashed a wine bottle over one lady's head.
10:49Another was suffocated with a mattress,
10:52and in the most extreme case,
10:5484-year-old Elise Benayim was forced to drink cleaning fluid.
10:59Something like drain cleaner,
11:01the main effect it has on the human body is that it is corrosive,
11:05so it will cause chemical burns to the mouth, tongue, the lips,
11:10and then if it's swallowed,
11:12it will cause chemical burns in the oesophagus and the stomach,
11:16can potentially cause perforations,
11:19and if the fumes get into the lungs,
11:21they can set up a chemical reaction there,
11:23causing fluid on the lung
11:25and all sorts of potentially lethal consequences.
11:29One victim was Alice Benayim.
11:34To tell them where her money was,
11:36Paula and Mathurin forced her to drink a product
11:39used for unblocking sinks.
11:41You can only imagine the suffering
11:42to make her reveal where she had hidden her savings.
11:46One of them used to hide her savings inside her corset.
11:50She had pockets full of money.
11:52The way they made them talk was by twisting their fingers.
11:55It was to make them suffer.
12:04During this two-month spree,
12:06the horrific murders sent shockwaves across the country,
12:10especially in the Montmartre district of Paris,
12:13where the majority of the crimes had taken place.
12:16I believe that what really struck public opinion
12:23was that the killer was targeting old, vulnerable, defenceless people.
12:28I believe that's what had the biggest impact on the public.
12:30There was no comparison between one murder and the next.
12:35It was the fact that these were defenceless people
12:37who were being killed.
12:42People were stunned, asking,
12:45why don't they arrest them?
12:48The public wanted justice,
12:50but detectives were struggling to find any suspects.
12:53And the longer it went on,
12:56the fewer facts we had,
12:59because everything had been tried to find them.
13:02All of the investigations had been done,
13:04from our perspective,
13:05but the luck factor was missing.
13:10You have to see that with the atrocity
13:15and repetitiveness of their crimes,
13:17as well as the fact that there were no central police files at the time,
13:21that there was a general feeling
13:23that they wouldn't be arrested.
13:25And that created a real panic amongst the public.
13:31Well, there was some speculation in the press
13:33that at the time that these offences were happening,
13:36that the neighbourhood of Montmartre
13:37had developed this mass hysteria,
13:40this mass psychosis.
13:42And psychologists find that this does tend to happen
13:45when you have an area where there's a phenomenon
13:48like a series of unsolved violent crimes.
13:51It makes people fearful.
13:53It makes them change their behaviour.
13:55It makes them often act in rather irrational ways,
13:58because their sense of stability
13:59and their sense of belonging in their community
14:03has been completely upset by what's gone on.
14:06Even more pressure was put on the departments
14:13specifically responsible for questioning and arresting criminals.
14:18The sense of fear among the population persisted,
14:22compounded by the professional disarray
14:24in still having failed to question them
14:26and not having been able to do anything
14:29to ease the concerns of the public.
14:31No one had seen the perpetrator or the perpetrators,
14:41a stranger in the block behaving abnormally or suspiciously.
14:45We had nothing.
14:49Matching fingerprints were found at several of the murder scenes,
14:52but with no central database,
14:54these were no help to the police.
14:58We had no database.
15:00That was created afterwards.
15:03It's always easy in hindsight
15:04to criticise the errors made by the police.
15:07But with the daily atrocities,
15:09they were in charge of finding a solution.
15:11It was very difficult.
15:12At the time, we didn't have the same resources as today.
15:19It's a shame we weren't more efficient at the time.
15:22We didn't have a forensic database,
15:23because Paulin was already known to the police.
15:25Paulin had first come to the attention of French police
15:30after being convicted of a robbery in Toulouse
15:33in June 1983, when he was just 19 years old.
15:37He holds up a grocery store,
15:40an old woman who's running a grocery store,
15:42with a knife.
15:43Not the brightest thing to do,
15:45given the fact that she knew who he was
15:47and that she lived to tell the tale.
15:51And he was indeed arrested
15:53and indeed sentenced to two years
15:56in jail for the attack.
16:00For some reason,
16:01and it's not entirely clear to me
16:03exactly what that was,
16:04perhaps it was to do with his age,
16:06perhaps to do with the old woman
16:08saying, oh, be lenient,
16:10his two-year sentence was suspended.
16:15His fingerprints had already been taken,
16:18but there was no central database
16:19and they remained in a paper file in Toulouse.
16:22So there they were, forgotten,
16:24as if they didn't even exist.
16:27Anyway, they never served for anything,
16:29because if we had been able to compare the prints
16:32to those in Toulouse after the first murder,
16:34we would have known that the prints belonged to Thierry Paulin
16:37and the other murders would never have happened.
16:43By November 1984,
16:45Paulin and his accomplice,
16:46Jean-Thierry Mathurin,
16:48had killed eight women in Paris
16:50in just over a month.
16:51But then, almost as suddenly as they had begun,
16:54the killing stopped.
16:56No one could explain why.
16:58So, we had to ask ourselves some questions.
17:08We could assume that the perpetrators
17:10had left the Paris area,
17:12or even that they might have been imprisoned,
17:15hospitalised,
17:16or may even have died.
17:20We did some research.
17:22Statements were sent to various prisons
17:23explaining the modus operandi.
17:25We sent the fingerprints we had found
17:28at the crime scenes
17:29to find out whether identical prints
17:31had been taken at the prisons.
17:33But the results turned out to be useless.
17:35We got nothing but negative feedback.
17:38In fact, Paulin and Maturin
17:52had moved away from Paris
17:53and gone to live in Toulouse
17:55with Paulin's father.
17:57But while they were there,
17:59the couple's relationship
18:00became fractious.
18:01That did not turn out to be a success.
18:06Paulin and his father argued.
18:08Paulin's father fell out
18:10with Maturin, who he didn't care for.
18:12Paulin and Maturin fell out,
18:13and indeed, the relationship collapsed.
18:15Maturin returned to Paris.
18:18Paulin decided to stay with his father for a time,
18:20but that didn't last either.
18:23Paulin was alone in life,
18:24so was Maturin,
18:25but Maturin would never return to crime
18:27while Paulin continued.
18:28In late 1985,
18:3122-year-old Paulin moved back to Paris
18:34and the murders returned with him.
18:36Between December of that year
18:38and June 1986,
18:40another eight elderly women were killed,
18:42and yet again,
18:43money was the motive.
18:47I don't think we can say
18:49that he was a serial killer,
18:50because a serial killer
18:51is a sadistic individual
18:52who takes pleasure in killing,
18:54who kills for the sake of it,
18:56for the pleasure of killing.
18:57That wasn't Paulin.
18:59He kills for money.
19:00There was a police officer
19:01from the La Brigade Criminal
19:02who said,
19:03he killed like he was going to the bank.
19:05I don't think he even realised
19:07the horror of what he had done.
19:09He attacked old ladies.
19:10He killed them,
19:11but in fact,
19:12he acted as if he was going
19:13to get money from the ATM.
19:15But he killed them,
19:16so they couldn't tell anyone.
19:20Paulin had developed a familiar MO.
19:22At the time,
19:24I was a specialist
19:26in criminal autopsies,
19:29and I was present
19:34at the autopsies
19:34of some of the grandmothers
19:35killed by Paulin.
19:37All the grannies
19:38were mainly strangled.
19:40None of the attacks
19:41were what you would call sexual.
19:43None of them.
19:44They mostly involved
19:45stopping the victor breathing,
19:47so killing them
19:47through mechanical asphyxia.
19:49Strangulation is primarily
19:57something that causes damage
20:00to the blood supply
20:01to the brain.
20:03Suffocation limits
20:04the air supply into the lungs,
20:07so eventually will cause problems
20:08through lack of oxygen.
20:11Strangulation is much more effective
20:12than suffocation.
20:17Paulin was living in a hotel
20:19and loved to entertain
20:20the movers and shakers
20:22of Parisian society
20:23to boost his own social standing.
20:29He knew he was limited socially.
20:32He had aspirations
20:33to be something else,
20:35to be recognized,
20:36well-known and appreciated.
20:38He sought another kind of existence.
20:40He had an extremely human side to him.
20:50There were people around him,
20:51especially ex-lovers,
20:53who knew him
20:53as a very sensitive person,
20:55who could be immensely kind,
20:57considerate,
20:58extra careful
20:59and attentive to others,
21:00to those he loved.
21:02So how could such an individual,
21:04and it is this
21:05that is so Machiavellian,
21:07how could this type of character
21:08transform himself
21:09into a killer
21:10who commits the act
21:11in half a second?
21:12He could be transformed
21:14into a killer
21:15who passes the act
21:17in a half second.
21:20Unbeknownst to the people
21:21around him,
21:22Paulin was like
21:23a real-life
21:23Jekyll and Hyde character.
21:25But this double life
21:26was about to be exposed.
21:28In August 1986,
21:30he was arrested
21:30on the outskirts of Paris
21:32when a drug deal went wrong.
21:34He wasn't happy
21:38with the quality
21:38of the cocaine
21:39he had bought,
21:40which led to a fight
21:41with his dealer.
21:42He assaulted the dealer
21:44who called the police.
21:45The police stepped in
21:46and Paulin was imprisoned.
21:48And so,
21:49his fingerprints
21:49were taken again,
21:51but were not compared
21:52with those
21:53of the murderer
21:53of the old ladies.
21:56They didn't know it,
21:58but the police
21:58had missed
21:59an incredible opportunity
22:00to solve
22:01one of the biggest cases
22:02in French criminal history.
22:04Even so,
22:05Paulin spent
22:06the next 16 months
22:07in prison.
22:08While he's there,
22:12and remember,
22:12this is the middle
22:13of the 1980s,
22:15he begins to demonstrate
22:16the symptoms of HIV.
22:19By the time
22:20he is released
22:22from prison,
22:23he is fully aware
22:26that he is HIV positive,
22:28which, at that point,
22:30then,
22:31was effectively
22:32a death sentence.
22:35Well, after he was
22:36diagnosed with AIDS,
22:37his offending
22:38really did escalate.
22:39And it wasn't just
22:40that he continued
22:41to kill people,
22:42but he engaged
22:44in almost kind of
22:44celebratory,
22:46spree-like behavior
22:47afterwards.
22:48So,
22:48he would spend
22:49a lot of money.
22:50He would party
22:51for days on end.
22:53And I think
22:54that that realization
22:55that his life
22:56was limited,
22:57he was aiming
22:58to enjoy it
22:59as much
23:00as he possibly could.
23:01And if that meant
23:02the trauma
23:02and the suffering
23:02of other people,
23:03then so be it.
23:05But, finally,
23:06on the 25th of November,
23:081987,
23:09the callous killer
23:10made a mistake.
23:13During one of his
23:16final attacks,
23:17he was scared off
23:18by the concierge
23:18of the building.
23:20The woman he assaulted
23:21screamed,
23:22and the concierge
23:23came running in,
23:24after which
23:24a resident of the building
23:26saw Paula escaping.
23:27The survivor
23:34was 87-year-old
23:35Berta Fenaltteri.
23:37She'd been strangled
23:38and left for dead.
23:39Detectives hoped
23:40she may be able
23:41to provide a description
23:42of her assailant.
23:45Meanwhile,
23:45Paulin continued
23:46unabashed,
23:47and just two days later,
23:49he murdered
23:49another woman,
23:51bringing the suspected
23:52total of victims
23:53to 21.
23:54He threw himself
23:55a lavish 24th birthday party
23:57just days later.
24:01He invited
24:02around 30 friends
24:03with the money
24:04he had stolen
24:04from his last victim,
24:06and everyone said
24:07that Thierry Paulin
24:08was the perfect friend
24:09to party with,
24:10that he was
24:10a fantastic party mate.
24:12But no one knew
24:13where the money
24:14had come from.
24:14As Paulin parted away,
24:19Berta Fenaltteri
24:20had recovered
24:20and gave detectives
24:22a description
24:23of her unique-looking assailant.
24:26He is a big guy,
24:291m82,
24:31athletic,
24:3375 kilos,
24:35mixed race,
24:36with an earring,
24:38a haircut like Carl Lewis,
24:42blonde hair.
24:45A photo of it
24:45was created
24:46by the forensic department,
24:48the very same sketch
24:49that would be displayed
24:50in police
24:50and gendarmerie departments
24:52everywhere.
24:55On December 1st, 1987,
24:58four days after
24:59claiming his final victim,
25:01Thierry Paulin
25:02was apprehended
25:03on the streets of Paris.
25:04A police officer
25:05who'd seen
25:06the photo of it's sketch
25:07recognized him
25:08and asked him
25:09to come to the
25:10central police station
25:11for an ID check.
25:16I remember seeing him
25:17coming up the stairs
25:18on the police escort
25:19and, of course,
25:21most of la brigade criminelle
25:22were waiting
25:23for him to arrive
25:24to see who this guy was,
25:27what kind of person
25:28he was, etc.
25:30Everyone had worked
25:31hard on this case,
25:32so everybody
25:33was very interested
25:34in seeing him.
25:39Detectives interviewing
25:40Paulin had a plan
25:41to get him to confess.
25:43They had a bottle
25:44of the same cleaning fluid
25:46he used to kill
25:46Alice Benayim
25:48in 1984
25:49hidden away.
25:52This story
25:52about the caustic soda
25:54is very important.
25:55When Thierry Paulin
25:56was arrested,
25:57he was taken
25:57to La Brigade Criminelle
25:59and puts in front
26:00of a policeman
26:00who would be listening
26:01to what he had to say.
26:03And this policeman
26:04had placed a bottle
26:04of caustic soda
26:05under his desk.
26:07Paulin was opposite him
26:08talking about the murder
26:09of Alice Benayim.
26:10The officer said,
26:11And Alice Benayim?
26:12To which Paulin replied,
26:14Yeah, I don't remember.
26:15There were two of you.
26:17Paulin, really,
26:17I don't remember.
26:19Really.
26:20Listen, it would be good
26:21if you do remember.
26:22There were two of you.
26:23Paulin was finding it
26:24difficult to come up
26:25with anything to confess.
26:27And then the policeman
26:28stuck his hand in the desk,
26:29pulled out the bottle
26:30of chemicals and said,
26:31And this?
26:32What is this?
26:33Paulin replied,
26:33It's not mine.
26:34That's Maturin.
26:35And just like that,
26:36he provided the name
26:37of his accomplice.
26:41Although he admitted
26:42to killing 21 people,
26:44the police charged Paulin
26:45with 18 murders.
26:47He soon began
26:48to tell detectives
26:49everything they wanted to know.
26:56I knew he was ill with AIDS,
27:04so already conscious
27:05of a chronicle
27:05of a death foretold.
27:07He knew that he was
27:08going to die.
27:09He had nothing left to lose,
27:11perhaps an urgent need
27:12to open up,
27:13to free himself.
27:14I would say even more
27:15to confess to the harm
27:17he had done,
27:18which meant that
27:18when he spoke to me,
27:20he told me everything.
27:21He got it all
27:22off his chest,
27:24demonstrating his
27:25extraordinary memory,
27:26his memory of the times,
27:28the locations
27:28and the details
27:29of the crimes
27:30he had committed.
27:31He relived everything
27:33he had done
27:33in front of me.
27:35That impressed me.
27:47It didn't take long
27:48for him to provide details
27:50of virtually every murder
27:51he had committed.
27:52He even told them
27:54the colours of the curtains,
27:55for example,
27:56details about the crime scenes
27:57that only he could have known,
28:00that no one else
28:00but the victims
28:01could have known.
28:03He was a cold,
28:05determined man,
28:06the kind you don't encounter
28:08very often
28:09as a police officer.
28:11Given the number
28:11of victims
28:12and the manner
28:13in which these people
28:14were killed,
28:15he didn't particularly
28:16show any remorse.
28:17It's almost an act
28:28of religious repentance
28:29to say,
28:30I have killed,
28:31I did that.
28:32It liberates
28:33the conscience.
28:34He had nothing
28:35more to gain,
28:36nothing more to do
28:37with the world.
28:38He was already dead.
28:39Forensic psychiatrist
28:43Serge Bornstein
28:44visited Paulin
28:45in custody
28:46to prepare a report
28:47for the impending trial.
28:49He treated us
28:59like nuisances,
29:01people who had come
29:01to bother him
29:02in his cell.
29:04So he had to be
29:04very patient
29:05in trying to get
29:06a fair bit of information
29:07from him.
29:09Actually,
29:09he didn't show
29:10any signs
29:11of specific mental problems
29:12but rather
29:13long-term
29:14psychopathic activity.
29:19Paulin's barbarism
29:21towards the old ladies
29:23he attacked
29:23is thought to stem
29:25from resentment
29:25towards his own grandmother
29:27who had reportedly
29:28neglected him.
29:34Maybe he was
29:36taking revenge
29:36for the faults
29:37of his family of origin.
29:39He probably bore
29:40the scars of his childhood,
29:42manifesting itself
29:43in his hostility
29:44towards old women.
29:46There was most likely
29:47some kind of symbolism
29:48at play
29:49with him trying
29:50to get revenge
29:51or to erase
29:52the cruel elements
29:53of his childhood.
30:02Here we've got
30:02an individual
30:03who was constantly
30:04rejected
30:05at several different levels.
30:07Rejected by
30:08his mother,
30:09didn't fit him
30:10with his wider family,
30:11rejected by his peers
30:12at school
30:13and even society,
30:15given the inherent racism
30:17and the inherent homophobia,
30:19it just shows
30:20the impact
30:20that the combination
30:21of these rejections
30:23can have
30:23on an individual.
30:26Jean-Thierry Maturin
30:27had also been arrested
30:29and charged
30:29with the eight murders
30:31he committed
30:31alongside Paulin
30:33in 1984.
30:35His defense lawyer,
30:37Michelle Arnault,
30:38has vivid memories
30:39of her one
30:40and only encounter
30:41with Paulin
30:42at a meeting
30:42organized at the
30:43Palais de Justice
30:44by the investigating judge.
30:49He wanted to ask
30:56Thierry Paulin
30:57some questions
30:58in the presence
30:59of Jean-Thierry Maturin
31:00in an attempt
31:01to find the truth.
31:03What was the true role
31:04of each man?
31:06What exactly
31:07had Jean-Thierry Maturin done?
31:09Had he gone further
31:10than he had said?
31:11Because Jean-Thierry Maturin
31:13said,
31:13I only did the searching.
31:15It was Thierry Paulin
31:17who tortured them,
31:18who killed them.
31:20And then I saw
31:21Thierry Paulin
31:21for the first time
31:23and he actually came in
31:24laughing,
31:25laughing uproariously,
31:28a truly unforgettable laugh.
31:30It was completely surreal,
31:32inappropriate.
31:35And I have to admit
31:36that I was stunned.
31:38And actually,
31:39he didn't answer
31:40my questions.
31:41He just laughed.
31:44And Jean-Thierry Maturin,
31:46I saw him,
31:48head down,
31:49staring at his shoes.
31:50Paulin pointed the finger
31:59of suspicion
32:00directly at his ex-lover.
32:04He blamed him
32:05for everything.
32:06It was Jean-Thierry Maturin
32:07who had done it all.
32:09Him,
32:09he was in there
32:10for nothing.
32:11It was the complete opposite
32:12of what the case files said.
32:14Nothing came of it.
32:15There was definitely
32:17a time limit
32:18on Paulin
32:19in terms of
32:20the criminal justice process
32:21because he committed
32:22so many murders
32:23and bringing
32:25all of those victims' justice
32:27would have taken
32:28an incredibly long time.
32:29He got an awful lot
32:30of evidence there.
32:31And that process
32:32can be many,
32:33many years in the making.
32:34And here was a man
32:35who didn't have
32:36many years.
32:38His health deteriorated
32:39very quickly
32:40after he was arrested
32:41and he was dead
32:42within two years
32:43of being caught.
32:45On April 17th, 1989,
32:49Thierry Paulin
32:50died in the hospital wing
32:51at Fren prison.
32:53He was 25 years old.
32:56Paulin's death
32:57meant that his accomplice,
32:59Jean-Thierry Maturin,
33:00was left to face
33:01the weight
33:02of the French justice system
33:03alone.
33:04Philippe Bilger
33:05was prosecuting.
33:09It is clear
33:11that French society
33:12had been afraid
33:13for a long time
33:14in the face
33:15of the atrocious murders
33:16of the old ladies.
33:17And as soon
33:18as the trial came around,
33:19of course,
33:20public curiosity
33:21descended on the trial,
33:23for which only Maturin remained.
33:29You have to realize
33:30that at the time
33:31we had just abolished
33:32the death penalty
33:33and because of that
33:34people were marching
33:35in the street
33:36calling for the murderer
33:38of these old ladies
33:39to be executed.
33:40Maturin's trial began
33:44in December 1991.
33:46Paulin may have been dead,
33:48but his presence
33:49was felt in the courtroom.
33:50The ghost of Paulin
34:04was present
34:04throughout the trial.
34:06And they asked me
34:07to speak too.
34:09And I spoke about Maturin.
34:11But I brought up
34:12all of the encounters
34:13I had had with Paulin.
34:15So I described
34:17this wicked character
34:18and his hatred
34:19for humanity,
34:21especially old ladies.
34:24And that really
34:25interested the court.
34:28He may no longer
34:29have been there,
34:30but his ghost
34:31hovered over the room.
34:32It was unbelievable.
34:35I think that even
34:36if he had been given
34:37the means to do so,
34:39Paulin would never
34:40have found redemption
34:41because he had
34:42a hard core
34:43of criminal perversity
34:44within him.
34:45It was a hard
34:48of criminal perversity
34:50that he had in him.
34:53It is obvious
34:54that at the meeting
34:55of Paulin,
34:56I would have asked...
34:57While, obviously,
34:58I would have requested
34:59the maximum mandatory
35:01prison sentence
35:01for Paulin,
35:03I wanted Maturin
35:04to receive a slight
35:05reduction
35:06in his mandatory sentence
35:07to really indicate
35:08the difference
35:09between the two
35:10and to do as if
35:11Paulin was also present,
35:13as if he was there
35:15too in a certain way.
35:20The main perpetrator
35:21of the murders
35:22was no longer
35:23able to be punished,
35:24so the court
35:25could only deal
35:26with the one offender
35:27who was still alive.
35:28But many felt
35:29that Maturin
35:30was far from being
35:31just an accomplice.
35:32This is crucial
35:37because calling him
35:38an accomplice
35:39can make you believe
35:40that he didn't have
35:41a hand in the crimes
35:42like Paulin,
35:43the mastermind, did.
35:45He is the co-instigator,
35:47of course,
35:47but I have always thought
35:48that Maturin
35:49probably wouldn't have
35:50committed the crimes
35:51he was found guilty of
35:53had it not been for Paulin.
35:54There is a considerable
36:06difference between
36:08the monster Paulin
36:09and Maturin,
36:11his submissive colleague
36:12who only followed,
36:14manipulated by Paulin,
36:16who was far more
36:17intelligent than him,
36:19who was a very subtle man,
36:22but one who put
36:23all of that aside
36:24in favor of evil.
36:26He was two men in one,
36:28with one side
36:29well adapted to society
36:31and the other
36:32a monstrous delinquent.
36:38On the 20th of December,
36:401991,
36:41four years after his arrest,
36:44Jean-Thierry Maturin
36:45was given a life sentence
36:46for his part in the murders.
36:49He was released
36:49in January 2009,
36:52having spent a total
36:53of 21 years in prison.
37:01I'm absolutely convinced
37:03you should never lose
37:04faith in humanity,
37:05so that's my belief.
37:07I think even if you have
37:09committed terrible,
37:10atrocious acts,
37:12you can work towards
37:13turning over a new leaf
37:14with sincere remorse
37:16and the desire
37:17to redeem yourself.
37:19I think it's possible
37:20and that our society
37:22has to work towards
37:23giving such people
37:24a chance.
37:37Maturin managed to erase
37:39quite a few memories
37:40and adapt to a normal
37:42social life.
37:43It was a very rare
37:45therapeutic success
37:47because this is someone
37:49who has obviously
37:50committed crimes,
37:54participated in a series
37:55of crimes,
37:56who has recovered
37:58some kind of conscience
38:00and from that time on
38:02is leading a completely
38:03decent life.
38:04We are faced here
38:06with a remarkable case
38:08of redemption.
38:10You know,
38:16if I had been in charge,
38:18I would have kept
38:19Maturin in prison forever,
38:21without any qualms.
38:23This much is clear.
38:24You see,
38:25I wouldn't have cried
38:26if they told me
38:27Maturin would live
38:28the rest of his life
38:29in prison.
38:29I am convinced
38:31that without Paulin,
38:32Maturin wouldn't
38:33have done a thing.
38:38Although he was
38:39never convicted
38:40because of his
38:41premature death,
38:42Paulin is still
38:43remembered in France
38:44as a terrifying
38:45and cold-blooded killer.
38:49He really was
38:50the worst criminal
38:51I have ever seen
38:52in the course
38:53of my long career.
38:55The worst.
38:56I dare say
39:05that I think
39:05he was in complete
39:06denial of all
39:07human values.
39:09He saw other people
39:10as just animals.
39:12He had an animalistic
39:13side to him,
39:14what we would call
39:15dehumanization.
39:17How can you kill
39:18a granny without
39:18thinking about
39:19what she stands for
39:20and all that
39:21kind of thing?
39:22He had a savage
39:23side to him,
39:24devoid of all
39:25forms of humanism.
39:26I think he was
39:31a wicked young man.
39:34I think he was
39:35deeply troubled.
39:36But that is no
39:37excuse for the
39:39deaths of 19,
39:4120, 21, 22
39:42elderly women,
39:44nor for the
39:45brutal manner
39:47of many of their
39:48deaths.
39:49He was a vile
39:53being, a real
39:55monster, and it
39:56seemed like there
39:57was some kind of
39:58divine justice
40:00because he perished
40:01in the worst
40:02circumstances, and
40:04it appeared as if
40:05the heavens, in their
40:06fury, had wanted to
40:08show that he had no
40:10place in humankind.
40:11Paulin was a greedy
40:17hedonist whose lust for
40:19fun and popularity
40:20drove him to commit at
40:22least 18 horrific murders.
40:24His death means we will
40:25never know the exact amount.
40:27With and without Jean-Thierry
40:29Mataran by his side, he
40:31callously targeted
40:32vulnerable elderly women
40:34and took their lives before
40:35he took their money.
40:37Thierry Paulin was, without
40:39doubt, one of the world's
40:40most evil killers.
41:10Thierry Paulin was, without
41:28the Jazzowski was, without
41:29being judged.
41:32I don't know the