00:00We're back to being concerned about private credit, your thoughts on whether we should be.
00:04I think private credit is a segment of the markets that is underserved because SMEs, especially in Southeast Asia or Asia,
00:15hasn't been able to tap global funding the way that the major corporates and the banks have served in the US.
00:23So in Asia, we don't see that as a big concern.
00:26But that doesn't mean we're unique.
00:29It just means that, you know, there's a differentiated asset class that will be OK in this part of the world for now.
00:35But there could be ripple effects.
00:36It would see an explosion in the credit space in the US, for instance.
00:40Yes, but, you know, I think any sort of liquidity event can cause that sort of ripple effect.
00:47It doesn't have to be credit.
00:48It could be just equity in a couple of years.
00:49The last couple of years, at the very least, we've seen credit being a good substitute of equity
00:56because the liquidity in the markets hasn't been as strong.
00:59That said, you know, credit is now maybe just substituted by the public market sentiments,
01:05which means there's a lot of IPOs coming up and therefore a substitution of the credit space.
01:10So no reason to be concerned in Asia, in Southeast Asia in particular.
01:14How about the concerns in the US market?
01:16Are they justified?
01:17Are the cockroaches there and should be paid attention to?
01:21So apparently, Jamie Dimon has now dialed back on the cockroach, at least on the GIC insights.
01:26But he's still the only one.
01:27Yes, I understand.
01:29But the private credit guys have also taken his lunch, right?
01:32And so there's also, you know, there's liberal competition over there.
01:35But the reality of it is the banks have not been as competitive over the last couple of years
01:39from Basel to concerns.
01:41And I think that was probably the bigger issues for people getting their normal financing needs from a bank.
01:49So the private credit guys were not unique in a sense that they were new.
01:55It was just there was a space in the market that was underserved at this point.
01:59Well, those are not the only concerns in the market.
02:01We're talking about the sell-off in the equity markets in particular.
02:04As you look to IPO your companies, how are you looking at the sell-off today?
02:11You know, all sell-offs, public markets are always about volatility, right?
02:14Like there need to be highs for people to make money and there need to be lows for people to kind of enter the markets.
02:21For us, I think the long-term trajectory of the IPO markets, whether in the U.S., in Asia, seems to be good.
02:27And I think we're bullish on the fact that we're monetizing some of our assets in the next couple of years.
02:33And it is a matter of where you'll be IPO-ing, right?
02:36We've seen you list in Singapore, in the U.S., in Hong Kong.
02:42Yes.
02:43So what are some of the considerations?
02:45So for us, you know, I think it's a market fit.
02:48You know, we listed one in NASDAQ two years ago.
02:51That was because it was a social commerce business and people like that business.
02:54We did one in Hong Kong.
02:56It's a Singapore biotech business.
02:58It's called Marexis.
02:59Today, Abbott just announced a purchase of ExactScience for $23 billion.
03:06Our business is now only, it's IPO-ed in May.
03:10It's called Marexis.
03:12And it's only now $2 billion, right?
03:14So it's 10 times the valuation.
03:16And we believe there, and they do cancer research.
03:18And so we believe there's a lot of upside from that standpoint.
03:21We're listing one called Foodie in the KLSE right now, as we're talking about.
03:25It's the first Southeast Asia social media platform, KOL business.
03:31We're listing one in Singapore.
03:32So we've done four countries in the last 18 months, and that's very bullish.
03:39Again, I think to your point on why, which country, I think it really depends on the markets.
03:44All the businesses that we've IPO-ed are tech businesses.
03:47So we do see an opportunity for tech to exit in this market right now, especially in Asia.
03:54Tech, in particular, has been a very volatile space.
03:57Correct.
03:57Is the timing right?
04:00When is the timing right?
04:01You know, I think the last couple of years have thought us we should hit the iron when it's hot.
04:07When there's an opportunity, we should exit.
04:08We should be smart about recycling our capital.
04:11And I think we just have to stay true as fund managers.
04:13And if we do deploy and exit at the right time, we'll be okay.
04:18Southeast Asian listings have had a dire time in the first 12 months of being listed.
04:25Only in Singapore.
04:27Why is that?
04:28I think there's just, I mean, obviously there's a euphoria in the U.S.
04:33A lot of the money has been kept in the U.S., stayed in the U.S.
04:37The liquidity has not came over.
04:39I'm from Malaysia.
04:40We do see Malaysia being a bumper year for listing, even for tech.
04:44We're doing one right now.
04:46And we see a huge oversubscription on the business.
04:49We're IPO-ing the foodie media business on 28, which is the Friday next week.
04:56And I think the markets are strong in separate or different pockets of the world.
05:05Each market obviously has its nuances.
05:07But why not list in Hong Kong?
05:08That is the hot IPO market.
05:10Well, Hong Kong has 300 listings in queue.
05:16And so if you want to list anything in the next at least 12 months, you'll need to wait.
05:22And so I think if you're doing, you've got to be pragmatic on where your local businesses are.
05:27You know, for this, it was a Malaysian business.
05:30For Marexes, they capitalized on Chapter 18A.
05:34And so it was really to fast track biotech businesses in this region.
05:40And I think Foreign Minister Vivian just said there's a biotech revolution coming our way.
05:47We're capitalizing on that.
05:48And, again, capitalizing on what data we have in China and kind of making sure that we monetize some of this data.
05:54Singapore, SGX, has been trying to revive its IPO market.
05:57And recently, of course, we had the SGX tying up with NASDAQ for dual listing.
06:01Is that a game changer?
06:03It's a game changer if you're someone like Cairo, for example.
06:06I think the reality of it is if you're able to trade 24 hours, that gives you ample liquidity in the markets.
06:12And that will be a game changer for someone who is big enough.
06:16There are a couple of businesses in Southeast Asia that is right before that exit.
06:21A lot of the funders have been there for 10 to 12 years.
06:26This will certainly be helpful to monetize the assets, but also create that liquidity and recycling the capital.
06:32And, again, that creates a DPI that everyone is talking about in Southeast Asia right now.
06:36It wasn't too long ago that we talked about how companies are staying private longer.
06:40Yes.
06:41How much has that changed?
06:42I think it's changed dramatically over the last two years.
06:45If you were staying private for longer, then I think you will have to answer to LPs, which, at this point, I don't think they're very patient in listening to the story at this point.
06:56And so I think you need to create exits.
06:58Again, the reason why Silicon Valley has done well over the years is because there's been an exit and there's been a recycling of capital.
07:05We haven't seen that that much in Southeast Asia.
07:08We've got Grab and Gojek or slash Gotoh at this point.
07:12And I think besides that, there hasn't been many big IPOs.
07:15And so we need that IPO to return the capital to investors so that they can also put it back together into the smaller businesses.
07:23Right.
07:23Right.
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