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'Crime is a problem everywhere, and Brussels isn't better': PM Rama defends Albania on path to EU
Albanian PM Edi Rama says his country deserves a seat at the EU's table, citing reforms and public support. Rama says crime and corruption are serious problems, but not exclusive to Tirana: "Brussels has crime too."
READ MORE : http://www.euronews.com/2025/11/19/crime-is-a-problem-everywhere-and-brussels-isnt-better-pm-rama-defends-albania-on-path-to-
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Albanian PM Edi Rama says his country deserves a seat at the EU's table, citing reforms and public support. Rama says crime and corruption are serious problems, but not exclusive to Tirana: "Brussels has crime too."
READ MORE : http://www.euronews.com/2025/11/19/crime-is-a-problem-everywhere-and-brussels-isnt-better-pm-rama-defends-albania-on-path-to-
Subscribe to our channel. Euronews is available on Dailymotion in 12 languages
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00:00Now, my guest for this year of conversation is Albania's Prime Minister, Edi Rama.
00:12Sir, thank you so much for joining us.
00:14Thank you for inviting me.
00:15You are in Brussels holding talks about enlarging the European Union and joining the European
00:22Union.
00:23So the obvious question is, why does Albania want to become an EU member?
00:28Because it is what we always wanted and that we finally can.
00:32So we came from a very long way and we were under different empires and finally, of our
00:48own choice, we want to join this empire.
00:52And, oh, you consider it an empire, the European Union?
00:56Of course.
00:57In what way?
00:58An empire, in all the ways.
01:01A nice one.
01:02A nice one.
01:03Yeah.
01:04So, well, here's the thing.
01:06The question why I ask you why now is, you say it's a nice empire, but of course, it has
01:11been a very difficult three years now for the European Union.
01:14Obviously, the war in Ukraine is having a lot of impact in the European conversation.
01:19We've also seen this moment of either radical change for the EU or slow agony.
01:24Mario Draghi said that.
01:25So has the EU lost some of the gloss around it or you still believe there is still an opportunity?
01:30Listen, there are different things you are asking about.
01:35So on one hand, it's about how we see it.
01:41And on the other hand, it's about how Europe should see itself in this new world.
01:50When it comes to how we see it, we see it as the only place we want to be because it's
01:59the only place where certain things that we fought for are going to be guaranteed.
02:08And I'm talking about freedom.
02:10I'm talking about equality in front of the law.
02:14I'm talking about democracy in general.
02:19From my own angle, very humbly, I would say that Europe, it's not that Europe has lost
02:29something, it's that Europe should gain something.
02:33And when you look at the situation, however, in Europe, obviously the war is still going
02:38on.
02:39You say very humbly, I'm not going to tell the EU what they need to do because right
02:42now you're not a member of the EU, but you also said, I have my views of what Europe should
02:46be.
02:47What do you think the war in Ukraine is going to do to this continent?
02:51Well, the war on Ukraine is beyond Ukraine in a way, is a very brutal signal of changing
03:06world of gathering storms of geopolitics and of different ballgame in the international arena.
03:23And for that, Europe needs to come out with an approach that is not based on the old,
03:38new normal, because it's not going to come back.
03:42And it's based on how to make sure that it will not become irrelevant.
03:53So the war in Ukraine is a big test for all of us in many ways.
04:01And first and foremost, I believe in how much Europe will be able to, at the end, be a driving
04:12force for peace and not a force of war.
04:21You said it will depend on largely how this war ends, the reflection in Europe.
04:27If there's a bad deal in Ukraine, is that going to make Europe weaker?
04:30And is that a union that you want to be a part of, a weak union?
04:34Listen, it all depends.
04:37It all depends in this case because let's face it, you know, it doesn't look very comforting
04:45that the European Union or Europe as such, the democratic Europe has not yet a peace plan
04:51for Ukraine.
04:52And this does not mean to compromise on the territorial integrity or to recognize the result
05:05of aggression in any shape or form.
05:09what it means to find a way to combine the resistance to the aggression with a realistic peace plan.
05:20And to make the outmost for offering both resilience, resistance, muscles in the arena and vision of the future,
05:36of a common future possibly, including Russia, when it comes to a path towards first peace and then cooperation.
05:48I know it looks like completely crazy to think in these terms today, but Europe has shown that enemies
06:01can become partners and partners can become friends.
06:06Of course, to go there, first and foremost, we all need to overcome the brutality of the aggression and to not reward the aggression, by no doubt.
06:18And that's interesting because a lot of the language that we hear coming out of Brussels says that Russia is now a threat
06:23for Europeans and there is no clear path in terms of normalizing relationships.
06:29Are you looking at Russia at a country that is, yes, a threat to Europeans?
06:33Or is there perhaps a way that you have to engage just because Russia is not going anywhere?
06:40Listen, one does not exclude the other in my view.
06:46The Soviet Union was a threat to the world and to the United States, but Richard Nixon and Henry Kissinger,
06:55they found a way to build in the same time a very solid channel of communication and to start something completely new
07:09new in the world scene. Same with the communist China at that time.
07:13Now, of course, I don't want to make comparisons that may not fit the purpose.
07:21But I simply want to say that while fighting and rightly so, while supporting Ukraine and rightly so,
07:31while thinking in terms of strength and rightly so, Europe should also have its own plan of peace and should not give up diplomacy.
07:47Because outsourcing the European diplomacy and outsourcing the whatever type of peace that may come on the other side of the ocean,
08:04it doesn't seem to have been very rewarding so far.
08:09So when you say outsourcing, you mean to Trump? If there's no communication?
08:11No, I mean, no, but it's not to Trump. On the contrary, thanks to Trump, Europe rediscovered the word ceasefire,
08:21which seemed to be banned from the vocabulary with the previous administration.
08:29So, I mean, it doesn't matter whatever happens on the other side of the ocean or whomever is on the other side of the ocean.
08:38Europe should have its own peace plan and, of course, then harmonize and then integrate and so on.
08:46But you don't see that now.
08:47Where is it?
08:48So when you talk to your European counterparts and they say we want a just and fair peace,
08:51you don't think there's any depth to that?
08:53No, I am not advocating any unjust or unfair peace.
08:58I'm simply saying that diplomacy should not be left behind although there is a war, you know.
09:07Don't forget, you know, Israel and Hamas were fighting to the teeth and they were communicating,
09:16they were negotiating, they were talking.
09:18So this is something normal and it's not a war somewhere, it's a war in Europe.
09:27And now going back to the reason why you're in Brussels, has it has any impact, the fact that there's this war going on,
09:34that now there's this real momentum on enlargement?
09:36Is this impacting you in a positive way where you say because of this war now there's this impetus?
09:41If there had been no invasion of Ukraine, we would not be here, we would not be talking about this.
09:45It's very probable and it's sad.
09:48It's sad that it took a war.
09:50It's sad that it took a war to turn the very just and right words in real deeds
09:58because it has always been said that the Western Balkans are strategically important for the European Union,
10:07that the future of the Western Balkans is the European Union, that one day we'll be together.
10:12But in the meantime the process was quite disappointing in many ways.
10:19I must say that the aggression created a new energy and this is also something very, you know,
10:36inspiring as it is inspiring how Europe got together, as it is inspiring to read in the wall of this big building
10:48a very clear, a very clear, you know, message of unity.
10:54And now you've entered what is now seen as almost a final stretch in negotiations
10:58and then it will become a political question too because you have to win over the 27 heads of state.
11:03Who do you consider your biggest ally? Because to me when I see it from the outside,
11:07George Ameloni is your best friend in Europe, isn't she?
11:11Listen, I don't want to go there because it would not be fair to the very true and very generous friendship
11:29that we are being offered by many in this part.
11:33You have a special chemistry, you can see it. What do you like about her?
11:36Yeah, you now are curious because she's a woman, you are a woman.
11:41But I must say that when it comes to Italy, there is something very special between Albania and Italy in general.
11:51And all the Italian prime ministers, independently from their political party or political colors of the government,
12:04they have been very good to us. And with Georgia is a special chemistry.
12:10I cannot hide it because it's very visible, right? And more than that, beyond that, she is someone that is very much about doing things
12:26and not just saying things, which is not very typically Italian, I must say, but she is like that.
12:32And would Europe be better off if there were more leaders like Georgia Ameloni?
12:36Listen, Georgia is one of a kind and I'm not sure she can be replicated, but by no doubt,
12:47more women in leadership positions will help Europe to be stronger.
12:53And this is obvious when you see the president of the European Union Commission, when you see Georgia, when you see Mette Frederiksen.
13:04So these women are incredibly strong and they make men look like they have to improve.
13:12And of course, when it comes to Albania in a European context, we often hear it in the sentence, the Albanian model.
13:19I'm sure you know what that refers to. Obviously, this is a deal that you cut with regards to migration with the Italians.
13:25They have set up this migration center and their jurisdiction is applied, but this is your land.
13:31When you hear the Albanian model, a lot of people assume or think of it as a loss of sovereignty of a country.
13:37And that refers to yours. Is that unfair?
13:40What do you mean sovereignty? We are...
13:42To have police from another country, law from another country, migrants from another country.
13:48You know, Italy is not another country. Italy is, you know, the Albania we look forward to have.
13:59So Italians are Albanians dressed by Versace.
14:03So we are the same people. We speak two different languages.
14:07We are united by the same sea. We love many things.
14:14But when you hear the dark side of the Albanian model, what does that mean to you?
14:18Is that something that you go, it is unfair. And by the way, more countries would do this if they could.
14:23First of all, not with Albania, because we can do it only with Italy, as I said, you know, because it's...
14:30There are many reasons for that. And on the other hand, I don't care what people say, you know.
14:38It's good that people can say things. This is why...
14:40You don't care about this perception of a country that's traded a part of sovereignty.
14:43This is why we love freedom. This is why we want democracy, because people can say whatever they want.
14:49You don't regret it in any way. You can do it again.
14:51No, what sovereignty, you know. Italians are at home in Albania and we feel at home in Italy, so...
15:00The Italians don't apply your law.
15:03But it's up to them to apply their law in that piece of land where they have to manage this operation, which is theirs.
15:11And they asked us to do it. And we said, of course, you are welcome. It's your home.
15:17There's this idea that you are putting the police, the laws and people from one country to another and that you see the part of your territory for that.
15:25In that specific area, it's almost a piece of Italy. Some would argue there's something wrong in that model.
15:31But at the same time, I wonder if you think there's a level of hypocrisy because more would do it if they could.
15:36No, I can't accuse anyone of hypocrisy. I simply think that people have different views.
15:42And sometimes people are jealous, but it's human. In this case, I don't know.
15:48I simply know that for us, it has been a due, so we had to do it because Italy asked us.
15:58And when Italy asks, we always say yes. And, you know, it's not just Georgia, it's Italy.
16:06And do you hope that that yes, when they ask, we say yes, that they are going to return the favor at some point?
16:13No.
16:14Some argue it's a transactional relationship in a way.
16:16No, there's no transactional relation between Italy and us because Italy has done for us a lot without any favor asked in return.
16:28And I'll never forget the day we were we were so down because an earthquake hit us very, very strongly.
16:42And the first to arrive in our help were the Italian firefighters.
16:52And they entered under the rubbles to save lives of people they didn't know.
16:59In a country they put their feet for the first time and they did it like heroes.
17:09And Prime Minister, just a final question. You've said there's a lot of cliches and stereotypes about what Albania is.
17:15I didn't say that, but I agree with you.
17:18No, you've never said, because I've saw this in a sentence where you said,
17:22Ah, somewhere, sometimes.
17:23Yes, there's ideas that have been presented about Albania that I find are a cliche or stereotypes of what Albanian people are.
17:30At the same time, some of your critics would argue what this collective imagination alludes to is this idea of perhaps mafias, crime, gangs.
17:38Is that something that you take serious and you say, well, it's not a stereotype, it's something we have to fight?
17:43And how do you do this dual path in which you change the narrative, but also tackle issues like this?
17:49No, but the narrative has already changed and it's changing every day because now Albania is not anymore a mysterious shithole in the middle of Europe where everyone was imagining, you know, mafia and criminals and drugs and prostitutes and all the bad things.
18:12Now Albania is a shining example where millions and millions of Europeans come to visit and where they see that it's a piece of Europe that has to be part of the mosaic.
18:30While in the same time, do we have still issues with organized crime?
18:37Yes, we do.
18:38Who don't?
18:39Look at this city.
18:40This city is, you know, an example and still there are great things happening here.
18:48Do we have issues with drugs?
18:49Who don't?
18:50Then, of course, we need to fight and the fight will never end as the example of Europe shows.
18:59Europe has fought drugs all the way, but drugs are still in Europe and the fight goes on.
19:07And the commission also made that point, so you agree on that specifically, too, in the recommendations.
19:13So, Prime Minister...
19:14I agree with all the recommendations.
19:16I've never seen anything more objective, more brutally...
19:20So it was a good report.
19:22More brutally truthful and more amazingly inspiring than the European Commission report.
19:27We live for this book.
19:28Well, we'll tell the commissioners.
19:30She'll be happy to see someone read it, start to end.
19:32They know, they know, and we have some people that read it from the beginning to the end.
19:37I don't know how they survived it, but they do, and I just adore them and I live for this
19:44book.
19:45Looking at this book, getting better and better, is the legacy of my political life.
19:50Well, on that note, Prime Minister, thank you very much for joining us on Euronews.
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