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Jaish plot to attack Delhi unravelled; PM warns against 'Macaulay mindset'
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00:00Good evening, a chilling video of the Red Fort Suicide Bomber, the Delhi Red Fort Suicide Bomber
00:07gives you a peek into the sinister mind of a highly educated medical doctor.
00:14Now this doctor planned to kill many innocent people in India and sought to justify it in the name of his religion.
00:21Dr. Muhammad Umar in clipped English, there are many in Kashmir also who say it's a fake accent,
00:27but in this fake British accent, this doctor claimed suicide bombing was actually a misunderstood concept in his religion.
00:37In his sick, in his very sinister, in a very dangerous view, suicide bombing in Islam, according to him,
00:46should be understood as he sought to justify it as planned martyrdom.
00:53And he said words to that effect, one of the most misunderstood concepts is the concept that is labelled as suicide bombing.
01:01It is a martyrdom operation known in Islam.
01:05Some, fortunately, are up in arms against this dangerous mindset.
01:11Sadly, there are some in India who continue to give cover fire to the likes of Dr. Muhammad Umar,
01:17and Dr. Adil, and Dr. Shaheen, Shahid, and Jasir, and many others like them.
01:23We get you much more on the chilling thoughts of Dr. Muhammad Umar, the Red Fort Suicide Bomber.
01:29Also coming up on India First at 8.30pm tonight,
01:33Prime Minister Narendra Modi's clarion call to Bharat to free ourselves from the colonial mindset rooted in McCauley's legacy.
01:43McCauley's aim, the Prime Minister said, was to create Indians who are Indian by appearance, but British at heart.
01:55So, S. Guru Moorthy, editor of the Tughlaq, an RSS ideologue,
02:01he joins me at 8.30pm tonight to decode the significance of the Prime Minister's message and the roadmap.
02:08Next 10 years is what the Prime Minister says is very important to decolonize our minds.
02:15I'm Gaurav Savant.
02:16As always, let's get started with the headlines on India First.
02:20Gangster Lawrence Bishnoy's brother, Anmol Bishnoy, deported from the United States.
02:31He was wanted in connection with Baba Siddiqui's murder and was also involved in the shooting at film star Salman Khan's residence.
02:41Big step towards Naksalmukh Bharat Gol, top Maoist commander, Madhvi Hidma, killed in an encounter at the trijunction of Andhra Pradesh, Telangana and Chhattisgarh.
02:59Now, this is the red terrorist responsible for 26 deadly attacks in India.
03:11Prime Minister Narendra Modi's big urban Naksal attack on the Congress.
03:15He fires the Muslim Mahuwadi League Congress.
03:19Salvo says the Congress shielded Naksals and rejected the Samvidhan.
03:24Bengal BJP approaches the poll body against the Trilmul Congress, accuses the TMC of running illegal SIR camps in TMC-controlled community halls,
03:41demands a shutdown of politically hosted voter revision camps.
03:46Renowned filmmaker SS Raj Mowli faces flack after he questioned Lord Hanuman for technical glitches at film Varanasi event.
04:00Right-wing groups file a complaint for insulting Lord Hanuman.
04:05The Red Fort suicide bomber, Dr. Muhammad Umar, sought to justify a suicide attack.
04:18Suicide bombing in the name of Islam, saying words to the effect that the concept of suicide bombing is misunderstood.
04:26It is actually planned martyrdom.
04:29In clipped English, he recorded a video.
04:32The location?
04:34Prime Office Sai appears to be his room at the Alfala University,
04:38where he tries to justify the concept of suicide terror attack-linked killings.
04:42And he links it to his religion.
04:44He, according to the National Investigation Agency,
04:47also sought to persuade his neighbor,
04:50Jasir Vani, alias Danish,
04:52to become a suicide bomber.
04:54India Today's Shreya Chatterjee and Arvind Ojha bring you a top story on India First.
05:09What has been labeled as suicide bombing,
05:12it is martyrdom operationers.
05:17Chilling terror video of alleged Delhi 10-11 bomber Umar-O'Nabi emerges.
05:23There are multiple arguments that have been brought against it.
05:26In it, the doctor, trained to save lives, is talking about ending them.
05:32This video was recorded by his aide, Jaseer Bilal Vani, who has been arrested.
05:38The video shows the doctor trying to brainwash youth into dying to carry out an attack.
05:45Throughout the video, Umar's posture is calm and composed.
05:49In a bid to recruit human bombs, he is seen commending suicide bombing.
05:55One of the very misunderstood concepts is concept of what has been labeled as suicide bombing.
06:04It is martyrdom operationers.
06:07One of the potential recruits was 22-year-old Jaseer Bilal from Anantanag,
06:15a political science graduate.
06:17He was targeted by Umar, who pushed him towards a suicide mission.
06:22Sources say Jaseer refused,
06:24calling suicide un-Islamic and refusing to abandon his family.
06:28More details of the horrific terror plot have emerged as investigation deepens.
06:37Sources claim the Jais module planned a Hamas-style attack,
06:42using drones and rockets like Hamas did in Israel.
06:46They allegedly made small rockets to strike multiple locations.
06:50Vani was allegedly entrusted with the task of modifying drones for the module.
06:56The terrorists intended to attack either through drone, rockets or car bombs.
07:01When terror starts wearing a lab coat and coating religion,
07:08the threat isn't just on the ground.
07:10It's in the mind.
07:13Is India ready for this new face of terror?
07:16With Arvind Ojha and Shreya Chatterjee in New Delhi,
07:20Bureau Report, India Today.
07:26So in Dr. Mohamed Umar's worldview and his view of Islam,
07:31suicide bombing is planned martyrdom.
07:34He sought to turn Jaser Ahmed Vani alias Danish into a suicide bomber.
07:38Though Vani refused to become a suicide bomber,
07:40saying it's against Islam,
07:41according to investigators,
07:43according to preliminary investigations,
07:44he was okay rigging drones to kill innocent Indians.
07:49And that brings us to a question,
07:50just how twisted is their worldview
07:52and their appreciation of their religion
07:55and the threat it poses to people?
07:57Joining me on India first,
07:58in just a moment from now,
07:59would be Zeba Zoraya,
08:01advocate and geopolitical expert,
08:03Dr. Tara Karthas,
08:04former director of National Security Council Secretariat,
08:07Shishpal Vaid,
08:08former director general of Jammu and Kashmir Police,
08:11and Aijaz Vani is fellow in the strategic studies program
08:14of the Observer Research Foundation.
08:16He's also an expert on counter-terrorism
08:18and counter-radicalization.
08:20And Aijaz, if I may,
08:22you heard Dr. Mohammed Umar's video,
08:25clipped accent,
08:27clipped English,
08:28he does appear to be,
08:29and does he appear to be,
08:30in your view,
08:31justifying suicide bombing,
08:33calling it planned martyrdom.
08:35What's your reading of his statement
08:38and his mindset?
08:40Yes, sir.
08:42I saw the video online,
08:44on the French New York channel and social media,
08:47but he never gave any authentic prophecy
08:50or any sayings of Islam
08:54where he justifies his suicide bombing.
08:58because the problem arises from here.
09:02There is no prophetic saying,
09:04there is no ayat in the Quran
09:06which says that we should go for suicide bombing.
09:09Even,
09:11there are ayat and prophetic sayings
09:13that say killing any man or woman or anyone
09:19is against the basic principles of Islam.
09:24Yes.
09:24That is the bigger problem here.
09:27Why?
09:27He gave that video,
09:29actually he want to radicalize someone
09:31or he want to have some more persons
09:35within his orbit
09:36who can give,
09:39who can go for suicide bombing.
09:41That was his motto.
09:42It is actually the same use of Islam
09:46which we saw from last 30 years
09:49within Kashmiri society
09:50to get people on board
09:53for against acetate,
09:57against any human being.
09:59Yes.
09:59That was being used first by Pakistan
10:02when they were helping the Afghan,
10:06Afghan Mujahideen against the Soviet Union.
10:08Then that problem was taken into Kashmir.
10:12Yes.
10:13So there is...
10:13That's a very pertinent point to make, sir.
10:16That's a very pertinent point to make
10:17and I want to bring in Zeba
10:18into this conversation
10:20because initially Pakistan misused Islam
10:24to spread terrorism
10:26and sought to justify it in India,
10:29in Kashmir.
10:29Now you see highly educated doctors in India
10:33do just the same.
10:35According to you,
10:36how serious is the problem?
10:38Are we aware of the problem
10:40and the kind of radicalization
10:42that is taking place?
10:43Not just justifying suicide bombing
10:45as planned martyrdom
10:47but also trying to convert
10:48other Muslims
10:49to become suicide bombers
10:50and not just carry out terror attacks
10:52but also kill themselves
10:53carrying out those terror attacks.
10:56Let me begin by saying clearly
10:58and unequivocally
10:59that there is absolutely no basis
11:02in Islam for suicide bombing.
11:04The Quran commands
11:06do not kill yourself
11:07and the Prophet himself
11:08declared that the person
11:10who takes their own life
11:11has denied God's mercy.
11:13So when Umar himself,
11:15the accused in the Red Ford Blast
11:17said suicide bombing
11:19is a misunderstood concept,
11:21he's not quoting Islam,
11:23he's quoting radical ideology.
11:25Radicals always twist religion
11:28to suit their violence.
11:31They take half of a word,
11:33strip it out of context
11:35and build an entire ideology out of it.
11:38And if their interpretation
11:40had any legitimacy,
11:42mainstream scholars
11:43would have, you know,
11:44supported it.
11:45But a single respected
11:46Islamic authority,
11:49you know,
11:50doesn't endorse suicide attacks.
11:52What Umar claimed
11:53is not theology,
11:55it is radicalization
11:57disguised as religion.
11:59And this is not a new pattern.
12:00Over the years,
12:02extremist groups
12:03have repeatedly tried
12:04to misuse Islam
12:05to justify suicide attacks
12:08from Al-Qaeda
12:08in the early 2000s
12:10to ISIS
12:11between 2014 to 2019.
12:13We have seen in West also,
12:15in every case,
12:17religious scholars
12:18across the world,
12:19Shunnis or Shias
12:20have condemned
12:21suicide bombing
12:23as haram,
12:24forbidden.
12:25Egypt's Al-Azhar,
12:28then Saudi Arabia's
12:29Council of Scholars,
12:31Indonesia's Zulema,
12:32the largest Muslim organization
12:34in the world
12:34have all issued fatwas
12:37rejecting it
12:38as un-Islamic.
12:39And yet it happens.
12:42And yet it happens.
12:43You know,
12:44this is what is warisam
12:45for 30 years.
12:46It's been happening.
12:48And, you know,
12:48it's not as if
12:49Umar is the first
12:50educated Muslim
12:50to be doing so.
12:52Mr. Vaid,
12:53you know,
12:54Osama bin Laden
12:55was an engineer.
12:56Dr. Ayman al-Zawahiri
12:57was a medical doctor.
12:58This is a module
12:59of all doctors.
13:01So,
13:01highly educated
13:03doctors and engineers
13:05misusing Islam
13:07to become terrorists
13:08and to make others
13:09into terrorists.
13:10So, sir,
13:10is it just
13:11the kind of these
13:12Malvi Irfan
13:13of the Nauga Masjid
13:15radicalizing these doctors?
13:16Because the bigger question
13:17would be
13:18how many more
13:19Malvi Irfans
13:20are still at large
13:21constantly
13:23indoctrinating
13:24youngsters
13:24giving them
13:25a wrong version
13:26as Zeba put it
13:27of Islam
13:27and how does
13:28one counter it?
13:31Good evening,
13:33Gaurab,
13:33and good evening
13:34to my co-panelists
13:35and your viewers.
13:36See,
13:37there are many,
13:38many, many
13:39Malvis
13:40like
13:41Malvi Irfan
13:43and
13:44I don't know
13:46how many
13:46such modules
13:47exist in this
13:48part of the country.
13:50It is very,
13:51very surprising
13:52that such a
13:53highly qualified
13:54doctor
13:55this
13:57whole module
13:57is so surprising
13:59that
13:59all of them
14:00are doctors
14:01highly educated.
14:03They are supposed
14:04to have
14:04scientific mind,
14:06rational mind
14:07and getting
14:08indoctrinated
14:09to the extent
14:09that they are
14:10ready to kill
14:11their own countrymen,
14:13work against
14:13the country
14:14and kill
14:15themselves
14:16to the extent
14:16of suicide bombing.
14:18and I understand
14:21that
14:23but then
14:28did religious leaders
14:31come forward
14:34and condemn
14:35this?
14:35I didn't see
14:37any statement
14:37from any
14:38important
14:39seminaries
14:41or important
14:42religious leaders.
14:44Diobant should have
14:45condemned it.
14:45They issue
14:46fatwas
14:46on many issues
14:48but I did not see
14:49any fatwa
14:50coming on this.
14:51They should have
14:52done it
14:52and the way
14:54Gaurab
14:55in Saudi Arabia,
14:57in UAE,
14:58in Singapore,
15:00in many
15:01countries of
15:03the Asia,
15:04Indonesia,
15:06Malaysia,
15:07the community
15:07leaders come
15:08forward,
15:10collaborate with
15:11the government
15:11and counter
15:13such narratives
15:14of suicide
15:15bombing.
15:16I think
15:17in India
15:17also
15:18with
15:18the
15:19surrounding
15:20of
15:21Pakistan
15:22and
15:22Bangladesh
15:24with
15:24so much
15:27of
15:27this
15:28place.
15:28It is
15:29high time
15:30that
15:30community
15:31leaders
15:31come forward
15:32to condemn
15:32this.
15:33On both
15:33borders
15:33a hostile
15:34Pakistan
15:35and a
15:35very hostile
15:36Bangladesh
15:37under the
15:37Muhammad Yunus
15:38regime.
15:39Before I
15:40bring Dr.
15:40Tara Kartha
15:41into this
15:41conversation,
15:42Zabai,
15:43I want to
15:43quickly bring
15:43you in.
15:44Has
15:45the
15:45condemnation
15:46been rather
15:47muted in
15:48India?
15:48There are
15:49many
15:49intellectuals
15:50who are
15:50more worried
15:50that videos
15:51have been
15:51put out
15:52rather than
15:53condemning
15:53the ideology,
15:54the mindset
15:54and the
15:55actions of
15:56Muhammad
15:57Umar and
15:57this entire
15:58module of
15:58doctors.
16:00Are there
16:00still many
16:01in our
16:01country or
16:02some in
16:02our country
16:02who seek
16:03to justify
16:04this or
16:04some who
16:05still believe
16:05in the
16:06concept of
16:06Gazwa-e-Hind
16:07waging this
16:08Islamic war
16:09against Hindus
16:10in India?
16:12I do feel
16:13that many
16:14many people
16:16from our
16:16community
16:17are still
16:18behind the
16:20curtains where
16:21they are
16:21playing it
16:22safe.
16:23You know,
16:23how much
16:24more should
16:25you know,
16:26there needs
16:27to be a
16:28proof to
16:28show that
16:29radicalization
16:29has went
16:30through such
16:31an extent.
16:33And radicalization
16:33is not about
16:34poverty or lack
16:35of education or
16:36recently where
16:37you know,
16:38a father of
16:39somebody,
16:40I think one of
16:40the accused
16:41set himself
16:42in fire and
16:43people are
16:43like being,
16:45that is a
16:46tragic incident
16:47but that
16:47doesn't allow
16:48you to not
16:50condemn such
16:51a terror that
16:52has happened
16:53and to call
16:54people from
16:55my own
16:56community are
16:56not coming
16:57forward by
16:58calling people
16:58out or calling
16:59the radicalization
17:01that has been
17:02happening.
17:03It is all
17:03about psychological
17:04vulnerability and
17:06ideological grooming.
17:07And I want to
17:08say something very
17:09honestly as a
17:09member of the
17:10Muslim community.
17:11We must call
17:12this out clearly
17:13and loudly.
17:14When someone
17:15misuses our
17:16religion for
17:17terrorism, we
17:18must be the
17:18first one to
17:19condemn it.
17:20It is because
17:21of our silence
17:21that creates
17:22spaces for
17:23radicals to
17:24speak on behalf
17:25of our
17:25community.
17:26Terrorism can
17:27never be
17:27justified, not
17:28politically, not
17:30emotionally and
17:31certainly not
17:31religiously.
17:33And Islam does
17:33not justify,
17:35morality does
17:36not justify it
17:36and humanity
17:37does not justify
17:38it.
17:39So today my
17:40message is simple.
17:40Very brave
17:41words, ma'am.
17:41Reject the
17:42distortion, reject
17:43the radicalization.
17:45I completely agree
17:47with you and very
17:48brave words.
17:48Dr. Tara
17:49Kartha, you
17:50saw that video,
17:51you heard that
17:52video.
17:53Terror strikes
17:54have taken place.
17:55People have been
17:56killed.
17:56Innocent people
17:57have been killed.
17:58And there are
17:58some political
17:59leaders in our
18:00country who are
18:01asking why did
18:02this bomb attack
18:03take place just
18:04around elections?
18:05These are
18:06repercussions of
18:07alleged injustice
18:08in Jammu and
18:09Kashmir.
18:10Are these
18:10political leaders
18:11in your view,
18:12madam, indulging in
18:14what is called as
18:15Muslim appeasement
18:16politics and are
18:17they giving cover
18:18fire to radical
18:19Islamist terror?
18:20Oh, absolutely.
18:22But I first want to
18:23just appreciate what
18:24Zeva said.
18:25I think what she
18:25said was
18:26I mean, I really
18:28appreciate it.
18:29But I wish, like I
18:30said, I mean,
18:31someone said he's
18:32misguided youth.
18:33I mean, somebody, I
18:34just read it just
18:35know that he was
18:35this is not
18:37misguiding.
18:38This is, he's
18:39nuts.
18:40And that person
18:41who said it is
18:42not doing a
18:43service to his
18:44community by calling
18:45him misguided.
18:46Now, what I want
18:47to say, Gaurav, is
18:48that I have heard
18:50tapes of, you
18:51know, in certain
18:53states of this
18:54Friday sermons, not
18:55Kashmir elsewhere.
18:57And I've heard it
18:58for many years and
18:59they made, it made
19:00my hair stand up.
19:02And for years we
19:03just ignored it.
19:05You know, so it's
19:06time and I want to
19:07give the second
19:07instance.
19:08Recently you had
19:09that TLP, you
19:10know, Therik-e-Labaik
19:11protests in
19:12Pakistan.
19:13You know what
19:14they did?
19:15They shut down
19:15Friday sermons.
19:16Can you do
19:17that?
19:18So you have to
19:20shut this down,
19:22get religious
19:23leaders like
19:24Zeba said, they
19:25have to reform
19:26themselves.
19:26We can't do it
19:27for them.
19:29I would also
19:29ask that, you
19:30know, this
19:31Twitterati who
19:32are from my
19:33community, Hindus,
19:34who go on a
19:35war front on the
19:37desk warriors, they
19:38also need to
19:38stop.
19:39Let's call it
19:40both sides.
19:41I mean, that
19:41is...
19:42We're all Indians
19:42together.
19:43We're all Indians
19:44together.
19:45And as Indians
19:46together, we
19:47need to combat
19:48this radicalization
19:49and the pace at
19:51which it's
19:52expanding.
19:53Ajaz, are you
19:53surprised?
19:54Because, you
19:55know, we've been
19:56reporting from
19:56Jammu and Kashmir
19:57for a very long
19:58time now, to be
19:59a doctor is
20:01perhaps the best
20:02that any youth
20:03can be.
20:04You know, and
20:05these are chaps
20:05who become doctors,
20:07they're practicing
20:07doctors, they're
20:08earning well,
20:09they've spread out
20:10in different parts
20:10of the country.
20:11Now, the
20:12suspicion is, how
20:13many of these
20:14chaps are actually
20:15sleeper cells for
20:16terrorist organizations,
20:17you know, waiting
20:20to strike?
20:21One doctor
20:22struck, how
20:23many others are
20:24there waiting to
20:25strike?
20:25That would be the
20:26apprehension.
20:29I'm not surprised
20:30that there may be
20:31more, many
20:32sleeper cells.
20:33Because, given
20:34the history of
20:35Kashmir, we have
20:36the problem of
20:37radicalization.
20:38Why radicalization
20:39in Kashmir, informal
20:41social control
20:42system that
20:44worked till
20:441989 was
20:46sabotaged
20:47abruptly by
20:48insurgency.
20:50And during that
20:51insurgency period
20:52after 1989, we
20:53also saw
20:54different Islamic
20:56contesting
20:56ideologies.
20:58Jamaat-i Islamiyah,
20:59Jamaat-i Aile
21:00Adis, and
21:02even Tabligh.
21:03They gave
21:04their own
21:05perception of
21:06Islam to the
21:07people.
21:08that not
21:09only divided
21:10society at
21:12larger level,
21:13but even at
21:15village level,
21:15even at
21:16community level,
21:18that
21:18forced the
21:20community
21:20leaders,
21:22which were
21:22controlling that
21:23deviant behavior
21:24till 1989,
21:26to go back
21:27and remain
21:29in their
21:30houses.
21:31And because
21:31of these
21:32contesting
21:33Islamic
21:34ideologies,
21:35that made
21:36most of
21:37the youth
21:37vulnerable to
21:38radicalization,
21:39because most
21:41of the youth,
21:41Kashmiri youth,
21:43one is they
21:44feel any
21:44problems,
21:45psychological
21:45problems,
21:46or any kind
21:47of problems.
21:47They try to
21:48go to those
21:50Malvis or
21:51those different
21:52perceiving ideologies.
21:54they give
21:55their own
21:56perception of
21:57Islam,
21:58they give
21:58their own
21:59perception of
22:00Khajiis,
22:00and they
22:01created much
22:02more problems.
22:04That's a very
22:04pertinent point
22:05you raised,
22:06and Mr.
22:06Vaid,
22:07you've served
22:08in Jammu and
22:09Kashmir
22:09all your life.
22:12Now,
22:12all these
22:13masjids,
22:13all these
22:14Malvis,
22:14where do they
22:15come from?
22:15They don't
22:15come from
22:16Mars,
22:17as late
22:18Pranam Mukherjee
22:19said in context
22:20of terrorism
22:20from Pakistan,
22:21that terrorists
22:22don't come
22:22from Mars.
22:23These Malvis
22:24also are all
22:25from different
22:25parts of our
22:26country,
22:27a number of
22:28them come
22:28from Uttar
22:29Pradesh.
22:30I'm told,
22:31how does
22:32one sort
22:33out the
22:34problem of
22:35radicalization
22:36at that level,
22:37that in case
22:38there is any
22:38masjid that
22:39is giving
22:40such a sermon,
22:42then that
22:42Malvi is
22:43taken to
22:44task legally
22:45as per law.
22:47Is that
22:47vote bank
22:48politics?
22:48Is that
22:48Muslim
22:49appeasement
22:49politics?
22:49That it
22:50hasn't
22:50happened?
22:51Or is
22:51that fear
22:51there will
22:52be outrage?
22:56Gaurab,
22:57most of
22:58the Malvis
22:58in Kashmir
22:59are from
23:00UP.
23:01Let me
23:02tell you,
23:03share with
23:03your viewers,
23:05majority of
23:05them come
23:06from UP
23:07and they
23:07have actually
23:08ruined the
23:09place.
23:10Let me
23:10tell you,
23:11Kashmiris
23:11were not
23:12like this.
23:14The people
23:15coming from
23:16Saharanpur
23:17and Dioband
23:18and all
23:19those places,
23:20they have
23:21actually
23:21misled
23:23this
23:23youth of
23:26Kashmir.
23:27And look
23:28at their
23:28sermons,
23:30as
23:30Mrs.
23:31Tarapur was
23:32saying,
23:33absolutely,
23:34Friday prayers
23:35when you
23:35listen to
23:36these sermons,
23:37what all
23:38they talk
23:39and how
23:40they distort
23:41the religion,
23:42how they
23:42misguide the
23:44youth.
23:44I think
23:47the
23:48appeasement
23:49politics
23:49both and
23:50also
23:51don't want
23:53to
23:53annoy the
23:55community.
23:56So most
23:56of the time
23:57these things
23:59are overlooked.
23:59Otherwise,
24:00we used to
24:01file FIRs.
24:02Let me
24:03tell you,
24:04wherever
24:04such
24:05provocative
24:06statements
24:07were made
24:07during Friday
24:08prayers,
24:08the police
24:10used to
24:11file FIRs
24:12and those
24:13Molwis used
24:14to be called
24:14in the police
24:15station and
24:16also reprimanded
24:18and taken to
24:18task.
24:19But I don't
24:20think that
24:20practice continues
24:22anymore.
24:22You know,
24:25the problem
24:25actually started
24:26with the
24:27mosque
24:27being used
24:28if I may
24:29for saying
24:30when Hindus
24:32were thrown
24:33out of
24:33Kashmir
24:34Valley and
24:35that was
24:36brushed under
24:36the carpet
24:37and unfortunately
24:37systematically
24:38a lot more
24:39has been
24:39brushed under
24:40the carpet.
24:40But Zeba,
24:42you know,
24:42how do you
24:43come back
24:44from the
24:45brink and
24:45how do you
24:46ensure that
24:46future generations
24:47don't become
24:49Dr.
24:49Muhammad
24:49Umars?
24:50You know,
24:51in our
24:51country,
24:52you need
24:52more Dr.
24:53APJ
24:53Abdul Kalam's,
24:54more Brigitte
24:55Mohammed
24:55Usman's and
24:56less of these
24:57Umars and
24:58Adil's and
24:58Shaheen's.
24:59What does
24:59one do?
25:02We have
25:03to, you
25:04know,
25:04there is
25:05two sides
25:05of the
25:06coin.
25:07We cannot
25:07collectively
25:08blame on
25:09the entire,
25:10you know,
25:11religion.
25:12It is
25:12unfair and
25:14it's
25:14intellectually
25:15lazy.
25:15You don't
25:16judge entire
25:17religion or
25:18communities.
25:19But nobody
25:19is doing
25:20that,
25:20Zeba.
25:21Nobody is
25:21doing that.
25:22And it's
25:22being very
25:22specific,
25:23you know,
25:23like these
25:24doctors were
25:25spreading terror.
25:26We are
25:26pinpointing where
25:27the problem
25:27is.
25:28But we
25:29should ask
25:30like why
25:30are educated
25:31people like
25:32Umar,
25:33like the other
25:33people are
25:34getting radicalized.
25:35it is because
25:35it is because
25:35again,
25:36I'll reiterate
25:37it is
25:37psychological,
25:38not educational.
25:39And even
25:39ISIS recruited
25:41engineers,
25:41doctors,
25:42Western
25:42university
25:43graduate,
25:44these people
25:45prey on
25:45emotional
25:46vulnerability
25:47and we
25:47need to,
25:48you know,
25:49call them
25:50out.
25:50There is
25:50identity,
25:51they prey on
25:52identity
25:53crisis,
25:53they prey on
25:55online eco
25:56chambers.
25:57Education
25:57teaches us
25:58how to read.
25:59it doesn't
26:00automatically
26:01teaches us
26:02how to
26:03resist
26:03ideological
26:04manipulation.
26:05And so
26:06we must
26:06recognize
26:07radicalization
26:08as a
26:09sophisticated
26:09grooming
26:10process
26:10and not
26:11as a
26:12product of
26:12illiteracy.
26:13If I
26:14as a
26:15young
26:16Indian
26:16citizen
26:17could
26:18identify
26:19it,
26:20I think
26:20other people
26:21should.
26:22You cannot
26:23like have
26:24a hard
26:25mentality
26:25that one
26:26person is
26:26saying that
26:27we need
26:27to have
26:28sympathize,
26:29we need
26:29to do
26:29this,
26:30we need
26:31to soften
26:32the entire
26:33scenario,
26:34whitewash it.
26:35It is not
26:35how it is.
26:37If there is
26:37something that
26:38is wrong,
26:39you need to
26:40call them
26:40wrong.
26:42And I am
26:43tired.
26:44Yeah,
26:44yeah,
26:44that's it.
26:46Yeah,
26:47I want to
26:47bring in,
26:47I want to
26:48bring in
26:48Dr.
26:48Tara
26:48Karsa
26:49once again,
26:49you know,
26:49because there
26:50are political
26:50leaders who
26:51are saying
26:51that some
26:52youth in
26:53Kashmir are
26:53resisting.
26:54This is
26:55part of
26:55resistance.
26:56Some say
26:56troubles of
26:57Kashmir echoed
26:58right in
26:59front of
26:59the Red
27:00Fort.
27:00In your
27:01perception,
27:02as someone
27:03who saw
27:03all of that
27:04and you've
27:04seen Kashmir
27:05over decades,
27:07are these
27:07political leaders
27:08actually giving
27:08cover fire,
27:10intellectual cover
27:11fire to
27:11radical Islamist
27:12terror,
27:13shifting the
27:13focus squarely
27:14away from
27:16highly educated
27:16youth getting
27:17radicalized to
27:18that overall,
27:19oh,
27:19Kashmir
27:20trying to
27:22justify this
27:23terror.
27:25Absolutely,
27:25Gaurav.
27:26I mean,
27:26I know which
27:27political leaders
27:28you're talking
27:29of and they
27:30will inevitably
27:30come back for
27:31their own
27:31political sakes,
27:32okay?
27:33And these
27:33are,
27:34I'm not naming
27:35them,
27:35they have been,
27:37what shall I
27:37say,
27:38they've lost
27:38ground even in
27:39Kashmir.
27:40People don't
27:40even listen to
27:41them because
27:41they know they
27:42are feathering
27:43their own nest,
27:44they've got all
27:44these huge
27:45orchards,
27:45they make
27:46money and
27:46they make
27:47money out
27:47of militancy.
27:49So I have
27:50no respect
27:51whatsoever for
27:51people like
27:52this.
27:53But what
27:53Zebra said
27:54also,
27:54if I can,
27:55if I may,
27:55and just add
27:56on to that,
27:57see,
27:57there is a,
27:58overall,
27:59there is a lot
28:00of violence in
28:01society.
28:02And this is
28:02particularly seen
28:03among the
28:03youth.
28:04So this
28:05terrorism
28:07ideology which
28:08is imported
28:08from the
28:09Islamic State,
28:09which is the
28:10most corrupt
28:11ideology you
28:11can ever
28:12think of,
28:13okay,
28:13if you read
28:14the whole
28:14Islamic State,
28:15how it has
28:15evolved,
28:16it is
28:16completely
28:17corrupt from
28:18the top
28:18to the
28:18bottom,
28:19they are
28:19savages.
28:21This is
28:21imported.
28:22I mean,
28:22look at
28:22this man,
28:23he's crazy.
28:26But think
28:26of,
28:27I want to
28:27say a
28:28slightly
28:28unlikely
28:29correlation
28:30here,
28:30think of
28:31road rage.
28:32Road rage
28:32has gone
28:33up hugely.
28:34Why?
28:34It is a
28:35suppression,
28:37it is
28:37disgust with
28:38the system,
28:38it is why
28:39in part you
28:40have this
28:41Gen Z
28:41revolution,
28:42there's a
28:42lot of
28:42things going
28:43on.
28:43In that you
28:44inject
28:45religious
28:45radicalism.
28:46It's a
28:47bomb to
28:48explode.
28:49It's a
28:49ticking time
28:50bomb and
28:51timely action
28:52needs to be
28:52taken now
28:54or it will
28:54be too
28:55late.
28:55I'm so
28:56glad,
28:56Zeba,
28:57Ajaz,
28:58Mr.
28:59Vaid and
28:59Dr.
28:59Tara
29:00Kartha,
29:00you've
29:00joined me
29:01here on
29:01this India
29:02First special
29:02to talk
29:03about this
29:04and over
29:04the next
29:04several days
29:05and weeks
29:05we will
29:06continue
29:06talking about
29:07this,
29:08including
29:08exposing
29:09those who
29:10give
29:10intellectual
29:10cover fire
29:11to radical
29:12Islamist
29:12terror.
29:13External
29:13affairs
29:14minister
29:14Dr.
29:14S.
29:15Jai Shankar
29:15has condemned
29:17terrorism at
29:18the Shanghai
29:19Cooperation
29:20Organization meet.
29:21He spoke
29:22of India's
29:23right to
29:24defend India's
29:26citizens.
29:26Dr.
29:27Jai Shankar
29:27pressed for
29:28the United
29:29International
29:31stance.
29:31He said
29:32the world
29:32has to
29:33stand united
29:33against
29:34terrorism,
29:35insisting
29:36terrorism in
29:37any form
29:38must be
29:39confronted
29:39head-on.
29:41He said
29:41and I
29:41quote,
29:42it is
29:42imperative
29:43that the
29:44world
29:44display
29:44zero
29:45tolerance
29:46for
29:46terror
29:47in
29:47all
29:48its
29:48forms
29:49and
29:49manifestations.
29:50There can
29:51be absolutely
29:51no justification,
29:52no looking
29:53away and
29:54no white
29:55washing
29:55terror.
29:56Listen
29:56it is
29:59imperative
29:59that the
30:00world
30:00display
30:01zero
30:01tolerance
30:02towards
30:02terrorism
30:03in all
30:04its forms
30:04and
30:05manifestations.
30:06There can
30:07be no
30:07justification,
30:09no looking
30:09away and
30:10no white
30:10washing.
30:12As India
30:12has
30:13demonstrated,
30:14we have
30:14the right
30:14to defend
30:15our people
30:15against
30:16terrorism
30:16and will
30:17exercise
30:18it.
30:21Big story
30:22and a good
30:23news story.
30:24It's a big
30:24win for
30:25India's
30:26effort for
30:26Red Terror
30:27Mukt
30:28Bharat,
30:28Naksal Mukt
30:29Bharat,
30:30by the
30:3131st of
30:31March
30:322026.
30:33One of
30:33India's
30:34most wanted
30:35Maoist
30:36commanders,
30:37Madhvi
30:37Hidma has
30:38been killed
30:39in an
30:39operation.
30:40Hidma,
30:41his wife
30:41Rajay and
30:42six others
30:43were neutralized
30:44in an
30:45encounter and
30:45this was a
30:46multi-state
30:47operation that
30:48was carried
30:48out at the
30:49tri-junction of
30:50Andhra Pradesh,
30:51Telangana and
30:52Chhattisgarh in
30:53a very thickly
30:54forested area.
30:56Now sources tell
30:56India today,
30:57security personnel,
30:58they had precise
30:59intelligence about
31:00Hidma's movement
31:01and the fact that
31:02since they were
31:02closing in on him
31:04from the
31:04Chhattisgarh side,
31:05he was crossing
31:06over into
31:07the Andhra Pradesh
31:09side.
31:10He'd actually
31:10built four
31:11layers of
31:12protective security
31:13around him
31:14to evade
31:15capture.
31:16So the
31:16security forces
31:17systematically
31:17went neutralizing
31:20one layer
31:20after the other
31:21to ultimately
31:22reach him.
31:23He was
31:23constantly shifting
31:24his location.
31:25He was earlier
31:26in the forest
31:26of Sukma,
31:27then he went
31:27to Bastar,
31:28then the
31:28Andhra Telangana
31:29border.
31:30Union Home
31:30Minister Amit
31:31Shah,
31:32he'd actually
31:32set a
31:34deadline for
31:34the security
31:35forces.
31:36Neutralize
31:36him.
31:37Kill,
31:37capture,
31:38arrest,
31:39do what
31:39you want
31:39by the
31:4030th of
31:40November
31:402025.
31:43And Hidma
31:43was neutralized
31:4412 days
31:45before the
31:46deadline lapsed.
31:47Amit Shah
31:47personally spoke
31:48to the officers
31:49who were a
31:49part of the
31:50operation,
31:51congratulated
31:51forces on
31:52their decisive
31:53success.
31:54Do keep in
31:54mind,
31:55Hidma was
31:55seen as the
31:56mastermind of
31:57that Chintal
31:58Nar massacre.
31:5975 CRPF
32:01personnel had
32:01been massacred
32:02and he was
32:03the military
32:03commander who
32:04was involved
32:05in 2010.
32:06Virtually the
32:07entire state
32:08Congress leadership
32:09was killed in
32:10the Jhiram Valley
32:11encounter,
32:12the Jhiram Valley
32:12massacre that
32:13had taken
32:13place in
32:142013.
32:15And that
32:16very painful
32:17ambush of
32:18security forces
32:19personnel in
32:202021,
32:21where more
32:21than 26
32:23braves of
32:24India's security
32:25forces made
32:25the supreme
32:26sacrifice of
32:27their lives
32:27as they tried
32:28to break out
32:29of an ambush
32:30laid at the
32:31command of
32:32Hidma.
32:32So this was
32:33the level
32:33of his
32:34expertise,
32:35his training.
32:35He had an
32:36award of
32:36one crore
32:37on his
32:38head.
32:38He's finally
32:39been sorted
32:39out.
32:40Sumira Jappan
32:41gets us
32:41more.
32:41It's the
32:54beginning of
32:54the end of
32:55Red Terror
32:55in the
32:56country.
32:57In a major
32:58breakthrough in
32:58India's ongoing
32:59battle against
33:00Maoist insurgents,
33:02most wanted
33:03Maoist commander
33:04Madhvi Hidma
33:05has been
33:05eliminated in
33:06a gunfight.
33:07Hidma was
33:10killed in
33:10an encounter
33:11with special
33:11police forces
33:12in the
33:13Maridumeli
33:13forest of
33:14Andhra Pradesh's
33:15Aluri
33:16Sitarama Raju
33:17district.
33:18For over a
33:18decade,
33:19Hidma led
33:19some of the
33:20deadliest
33:20attacks on
33:21security
33:22personnel.
33:24The most
33:24infamous of
33:25these was
33:26the 2010
33:27Dantewara
33:27attack where
33:2876 CRPF
33:30personnel were
33:30killed in
33:31action.
33:32In the
33:332013
33:33Jiram Valley
33:34massacre,
33:3527 people
33:36were killed
33:37including top
33:38congress
33:38leaders.
33:39In the
33:402021
33:41Sukma
33:41Bijapur
33:42encounter,
33:4322
33:43security
33:44personnel
33:44were killed
33:45in action.
33:46Madhvi
33:47Hidma is
33:48the central
33:48committee
33:49member and
33:51first battalion
33:53commandant and
33:54one of the
33:55most wanted
33:56and dreaded
33:57Maoists.
33:58His body
33:59has been
33:59recovered.
34:01His wife
34:01Rajay, her
34:03body has been
34:04recovered.
34:05The dreaded
34:06Maoist
34:07commander was
34:07killed by
34:08security forces
34:0912 days
34:10before the
34:10November 30
34:11deadline set
34:12by Union
34:13Home Minister
34:14Amit Shah to
34:14eliminate the
34:15most wanted
34:16Naksalite.
34:17With his
34:28elimination, the
34:43government has
34:44sent out a
34:44strong message
34:45as it continues
34:46to push
34:47forward with
34:47efforts to
34:48dismantle
34:49Maoist
34:50strongholds
34:50across the
34:51country.
34:52With
34:52Apoorva
34:53Jaichandran and
34:54Sumi Keval
34:54Patel, Bureau
34:55Report, India
34:56Today.
35:00And Sumi Patel
35:01now joins me
35:02with the latest
35:02on these
35:03operations from
35:04the forests of
35:05Jagdalpur.
35:06Sumi, give us
35:06details of the
35:07operation.
35:08How difficult
35:09was it?
35:09How are
35:10security forces
35:11reacting and
35:12what next for
35:12them?
35:18Yes, absolutely
35:19God of it had
35:20become one of the
35:20daunting tasks to
35:21trace Hidma because
35:22he was the chief of
35:23PLGA battalion
35:24number one, which
35:26was one of the
35:27deadliest units of
35:28the Naksal forces
35:30here.
35:31And remember, six
35:32months ago,
35:33Kargatta operations
35:34were also launched
35:35to actually trace
35:37Hidma in the
35:38jungles of Kargatta
35:39Hills.
35:39However, he
35:40escaped from that
35:41particular operation
35:43and in fact, six
35:44months he has been
35:45in hiding across
35:46the Chhattasgarh-
35:47Andhra Pradesh as
35:47well as Chhattasgarh-
35:48Telangana border.
35:49And in fact, this
35:50time around the
35:51security forces,
35:52specifically Andhra Pradesh's
35:53greyhounds, were
35:54successful in breaking
35:56through the four-layered
35:58security that Hidma
35:59used to carry.
36:00And in fact, along
36:01with him, his wife,
36:02Rajay and four
36:03others have also
36:04been eliminated.
36:06And in fact, apart
36:06from that, what we're
36:07also picking up from
36:08our security forces
36:09is that 30 Naksals
36:10have also been
36:11arrested, including
36:12Deva, who recently
36:13had been appointed
36:15as the CPIM
36:16General Secretary
36:17after Baswar Raj's
36:18death.
36:18So this is going to
36:19be the most decisive
36:20blow in the
36:22red terror, in the
36:23movement against
36:24the red terror.
36:25And as Amit Shah
36:26had set a deadline
36:29of November 30,
36:30this has been
36:30achieved 12 days
36:31prior to that
36:32deadline.
36:33And certainly it
36:33was a tri-state
36:35operation that took
36:36place today and
36:37this particular
36:38date will
36:39definitely go in
36:40the history books
36:41as the last
36:43nail in the
36:44coffin was
36:44scripted on
36:4518th November.
36:4718th November
36:48is a date that
36:50security forces
36:50will not forget.
36:52Now, some of the
36:53CRPF personnel I
36:54spoke to, they
36:55said justice has
36:56finally been done
36:58after that
36:59Chintal Nar
36:59massacre of 2010.
37:01Remember, 75
37:02CRPF personnel were
37:04massacred by
37:05these Maoist
37:06terrorists and
37:06then the 2013
37:07massacre again
37:09when virtually the
37:10entire state
37:10congress leadership
37:11was wiped out
37:12in the Jiram
37:13Valley encounter.
37:15Much more on
37:16that in the
37:17days ahead.
37:18Sumi, many
37:18thanks for
37:18joining me.
37:20Prime Minister
37:21Narendra Modi
37:22made an
37:22emphatic pitch to
37:23reclaim India's
37:25intellectual self
37:26worth, urging
37:28the nation to
37:28break free from
37:29what he called
37:30was the
37:31Macaulay
37:32mindset.
37:32the Prime
37:33Minister called
37:34for a national
37:35resolve to
37:36restore faith in
37:38Bharatiyan
37:39knowledge, indigenous
37:40knowledge, local
37:41languages and he
37:42emphasized not
37:43against English but
37:44spread knowledge
37:46through local
37:47languages so that
37:48more people can
37:49be taken forward
37:50and of course
37:51realize India's
37:52civilizational genius.
37:56Macaulay
37:57A powerful call
38:09by Prime Minister
38:10Narendra Modi,
38:11a national mission
38:12to break what he
38:14calls the
38:14Macaulay
38:15mindset.
38:15Macaulay
38:16I would like to invite you from the whole country to the whole country.
38:23In the next ten years, we have to go to the next ten years
38:29that I am going to be able to live in the same way.
38:41Ten years we have a great deal.
38:44Modi declared Macaulay's 1835 policy sidelined Indian knowledge systems and glorified Western thinking as superior.
39:14Prime Minister said, this colonial mindset did not end with independence. It grew stronger.
39:24Modi said, heritage isn't just about history. It is about identity.
39:48On the issue of local languages, Modi wondered which other country disrespected its own languages.
40:18That's a very important point Prime Minister Narendra Modi is making.
40:37Indians and today the leadership is not against the English language, but it is to spread knowledge through regional languages so that more people can benefit from it.
40:48So to decode Prime Minister Narendra Modi's message, let me quickly bring into this conversation on India first.
40:55S. Guru Murthy, editor of the Political Weekly Tughlaq, RSS thinker, ideologue, someone who's also associated with the Swadeshi Jagran Manch.
41:03Sir, welcome. Mr. Guru Murthy, delivering the sixth Ramnath Goenka lecture, the Prime Minister said India must put the locks on Western mindset.
41:12This mindset that's been embedded since 1835 and Macaulay's legacy, sir.
41:17How do you define Macaulay's mindset in today's day and age?
41:22See, I'm extremely happy.
41:26First, the Prime Minister mentioned the fundamental distortion that took place in Indian intellectualism in 1835.
41:36In fact, nobody has inquired into the origin of these minutes.
41:41They have just gone by how the minutes has really changed the mind of India, the intellectual mind of India.
41:48He, Macaulay, sat in my state, in Tamil Nadu, in Ooty and wrote these minutes.
41:59He had no idea of India.
42:01He was totally illiterate.
42:03I'll tell you how the history conspired.
42:06It was only much later that Monier Williams discovered Sanskrit, which was key to understanding the literature, the Vedas, the Upanishads, everything about India.
42:20And Monier Williams said that Sanskrit language is superior to even Greek and Latin.
42:26But Macaulay was unaware of it because history has conspired that the knowledge about India, which the West could gain, came much later to Macaulay's minutes,
42:42where he said if you put the entire intellectual work of the Indian subcontinent, it will be only one and a half shelf of the British knowledge system.
42:54He was illiterate.
42:56A totally illiterate man's minutes formed the intellectual foundation of the education system in India, which came later.
43:05So, what you're saying is someone who was illiterate was forming India's education policy and he knew very little about the vastness of India's knowledge system, sir.
43:21So, when Prime Minister Narendra Modi quotes Macaulay, saying that his goal was only to create this Indian who is British at heart, are we still paying a price for it?
43:34Do you believe Macaulay's mindset still plagues India of today?
43:39Sir, I have personally experienced it.
43:47In fact, you know, I have been in both worlds, in Macaulay's world as well as the traditional India's world, because Tamil Nadu produced both.
43:56Tamil Nadu produced the most modern Indian thinkers and they went as far as to deny the Indian culture situation, Indian orientation itself to the Dravidian philosophy.
44:13But we also held on to our beliefs about the greatness of India, our culture, our language, everything.
44:20So, I have been in both worlds.
44:22And I have been in the world of commerce, of finance, of economics, of intellectualism, which was driven by the Macaulay-minded people.
44:32I can tell you, I can tell you, even today in the Indian system, whether it is training the IIS officers or lawyers or chartered accountants, it is the Macaulay mindset that works.
44:42I will tell you, in 1997, Govindacharya and me were met by a Japanese Mithi No. 2 man.
44:52He was a very young man at the time he met us.
44:54And when we discussed, he told things about India, how the Japanese study India as the only friendly civilization in the world.
45:05They said, we have spent $2.5 billion in studying India.
45:10And we know more about India than all the universities of India put together.
45:14And we were shocked.
45:15Then, whatever he said was such a geopolitical, confidential matter, I will not be able to say this in the hookup.
45:25So, I asked him, why don't you say all this to our, your government?
45:31Can they not talk to our government through our external affairs?
45:35Sir, the moment we tell anything to our external affairs, it will immediately reach the West because of the closeness you have through the English language.
45:43English language.
45:44Okay, okay.
45:46So, Mr. Guru Murthy, when Prime Minister Narendra Modi gives examples of countries like Japan, and you just spoke of Japan, or countries like China and South Korea, they adopted Western ideas, but remained rooted in their own language.
45:58Now, is that where India lost big time?
46:05Correct.
46:06I am telling you, I mean, of course, I should not be saying this.
46:09I once asked the Prime Minister, in what language you talk to these, the Japanese, the Russians, they, at that time he had met Xi Jinping, and you were touching his shoulders and talking and laughing in lot language.
46:25He said, it's only in Hindi.
46:27Oh.
46:28He said, they get confidence to talk to you more if you talk in your language than in English, because the moment you talk in English, they connect you with the West, with America.
46:41And all our people are longing for a certificate from how well we speak English, and now after globalization, how well we speak phonetically American English.
46:55I mean, I have seen this, because I have been in the world of commerce, I have been, I have been in the world field of journalism.
47:03I tell you, we have, it's not an inferior mindset, actually.
47:08We think we are superior even to the Englishmen in speaking English.
47:14We know more about India.
47:15But in the process that you don't know anything about India, we don't know.
47:19Okay, but tell me this, sir, Mr. Gurumurthi, Prime Minister Narendra Modi has given a roadmap for the next 10 years, till 2035, when it will be 200 years of Macaulay coming to India in 1835.
47:34Can this roadmap actually be followed, that you reverse that Macaulay Putra mindset or the Macaulay mindset, and all these, you know, in Delhi University, they were jokingly put, called Macaulay Putras.
47:47Those who follow Macaulay's teachings.
47:50Now, can we decolonize our minds, and yet continue to grow at the speed and pace which we want to?
47:57Does the new education policy actually address that?
47:59But more than the education policy, does it have to have a social construct, sir?
48:06Sir, I am talking about new education policies, the government initiative.
48:11I am seeing what is happening at the societal level.
48:13There is a huge amount of interest in the Indian way.
48:18For example, the Vedas and Upanishads were decried by our historians as the blabberings of animists.
48:28This is what Romilya Thapur said.
48:30Imagine.
48:30But in 1962, Schrodinger, who got the Nobel Prize, he said that the origin of universe is a mystery,
48:41and it can be explained only through Vedas and Upanishads, as a supreme universal consciousness has resulted in matter.
48:49And how the Nobel laureates looked at science, and how our historians, through whom we are understanding what science and whatever Vedas and Upanishads are, are speaking.
49:03Now, I find in IIT, in other scientific institutions, more and more students trying to understand how the Vedic rishis perceived facts.
49:17You know, our length of time, in billions of years, I mean, it was considered to be exotic.
49:24Now, it is scientific.
49:27Okay.
49:28Okay.
49:28And you agree when the Prime Minister says that Macaulay broke India's self-confidence, instilled a sense of inferiority in us.
49:39You know, we take great pride if we speak fluent English.
49:42We should take greater pride in speaking our own languages, learning through our languages.
49:48Is that possible, sir, in your view, that inferiority complex can be removed, and our self-confidence comes back?
49:58Absolutely.
49:59You see, he built for 50 years at least.
50:03I mean, I was involved in the process of change in the Indian psyche through the Ramjan Bhumi movement.
50:09Till then, we felt so inferior.
50:11It is that movement which generated huge amount of pride in our culture, in our value systems.
50:19And now, the ecosystem is changing.
50:23And in my view, the government policies are bound to change.
50:28The government cannot change the ecosystem.
50:31The ecosystem has to change through the intellectual discourse, which is happening today.
50:36And I am very happy about it, that at the autumn of my life, I am seeing the result of the battle which we had waged for the last 50 years.
50:47Fighting in the educational field, in the intellectual field, in the media, in the field of economics, commerce, trade.
50:55The output of what Macaulay had planted.
50:59Okay, so you waged a long battle.
51:03There is another battle that you need to continue to wage to see it to its logical conclusion.
51:09And, Tvam Jeevay Misharda Hashatam, sir, not clearly the autumn of your life.
51:12You still have to soldier on for joining me here on India First.
51:16Many thanks.
51:17That is all I have for you on this India First special broadcast.
51:21Many thanks for watching.
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