00:00Welcome to ET Vibharat. I am Siddharth and today we have with us Dr. Madhavi Lata, one of India's leading geotechnical engineers and a professor at Indian Institute of Science. Namaste ma'am.
00:11Namaste Siddharth.
00:12You are not known only for one historic thing but two. One is that you are the first female professor in civil engineering at Indian Institute of Science and you worked on the world's highest bridge, railway bridge. What are your thoughts on that and how do you feel about having done this?
00:36Okay. The first one what you said, I am the first female faculty in the department of civil engineering, IAAC. I think someone has to come and I have come. So, that is how it happened.
00:50But the second thing what you talked about, the world's highest railway bridge and I am one of the engineers who designed and part of the construction and completion of this bridge. This brings a lot of pride to me. I feel, I feel great about it.
01:04Coming from Andhra Pradesh, normally people turn towards engineering. But then, what made you turn towards civil engineering as such because, you know, we have a lot of stereotypes about it, especially about women entering the hard engineering fields, you know.
01:22So, what made you turn towards it, what was your, what was the process like, especially at home and later taking those decisions?
01:30Okay. To be very honest, I never wanted to be an engineer, I wanted to be a doctor and taking engineering was because of situations at home and especially the financial status of my family. So, they thought that engineering is a better profession than medical profession because we can settle down in life quickly.
01:50Because we can settle down in life quickly and we start earning, whereas medical profession needs lot of financial support for building a clinic or to continuing in this profession for a long time to complete the studies.
02:02So, that is how I entered engineering. But once I entered engineering, civil engineering was also not my choice because I got seat in other branches as well. But since I did not get in electronics, civil engineering was my second choice. That is how I entered civil engineering.
02:18Yes, you said there are a lot of stereotypes and who will say that women have to go into this field, that field. But personally, I do not think any of this kind of things exist that women have to do only these things. For me, I treat myself as equal to any man in the world. So, I do not think being a woman should decide your career path. I think it is your passion that should drive you towards a specific profession.
02:45So, civil engineering chose you or you chose civil engineering?
02:48Maybe both. Maybe both. I chose civil engineering when civil engineering came in my way.
02:53Again, sort of reiterating my previous question in a slightly different way maybe because there are more barriers for women when it comes to mechanical engineering or civil engineering which are considered as the hard ones compared to and there is more of physicality involved in these avenues.
03:14Did you face what are the barriers that you faced as such or did you actually face any barriers because of your gender?
03:21No, I did not face any barriers because of my gender. There is physical work in this profession particularly when you work on field. I do not deny that. But I think we are capable of handling it.
03:33When women can go into space and live for months and years beating all men. I do not think civil engineering is a big thing that people should be scared about. I would say that this is like any other profession.
03:47But if you are looking for a job inside an office sitting 9 to 5 in front of your computer, this is not for you. If you are passionate about nation building, I think this is for you.
03:57You said two interesting things. One is about nation building and you used the word scary because that's the perception. Now when it comes to the bridge that you worked on, the China bridge, it has both.
04:11It has a scary element towards it considering its location in the geopolitical context and with other issues and its altitude and all. And you are also known for a design as you go approach.
04:26How did this come together? How was the process? Like was a design as you go approach needed in this context?
04:36Design as you go approach is needed in any infrastructural project which is like very, very big and takes long time because things change with time because rocks also change with time.
04:47They undergo process through which properties would not remain the same over the years. And also when you are talking about projects which are like built on natural slopes like China bridge, you need to adopt the design as you go.
05:02It is not like my approach that we have adopted. It is the approach adopted globally in many civil engineering projects, but in rarely. And this approach was it has come together through the Indian railways and the construction
05:17companies and the designers like me. So we all worked on this evolution of the bridge into what it is standing today.
05:25When it comes to evolution and design in engineering, things are evolving technologically, we are evolving at a different geometric pace probably today more than ever. How do you feel sustainability, safety and environmental concerns also have to come into engineering and design?
05:45See, I am the chair of sustainable technologies of IAAC. So, I definitely know what sustainability means. Many people said that in Chinab Railway Bridge construction, you have used so much of cement concrete, which is not a sustainable material.
06:00But to all of them, I would like to tell that sustainability is not about just the materials. It is about the entire environmental impact and the life cycle. For example, the Chinab Railway Bridge was the only lifeline to the end of the
06:15the entire Jammu region when floods happened recently. All roads were closed and this was the only line through which the government has transported flood material and flood victims to the upper regions. And also when millions of tons of apples are getting rotten, this was the only line through which the government could transport the apples from Anantanag and Madgav districts to Delhi through apple express trains. I would call this is sustainability.
06:43And initially when the project started many people in that region opposed. There is something going
06:49to happen in this region and our slopes are affected, our hills are affected, there is going
06:55to be kind of civil engineering construction. But I recently met many of the social influencers
07:00in a conference in Goa, where these people have come and told me that ma'am during these floods
07:06we realized why we need this bridge. We all are so proud of you and we are thankful to you
07:11for being a part of this bridge. So, I can see that keeping people happy without affecting their
07:17ecosystem is what sustainability means. I think we achieved through our Chinab Railway Bridge project.
07:23So, its sustainability according to you has more dimensions to it than just a unidimensional, whether it is a material or whether it is an emission.
07:30Yes, it is there is a river flowing between two hills and we have built this huge bridge, but we have not disturbed the course of the river or we have not silted the river.
07:39Enough care is taken for all these environmental aspects to keep the terrain as natural as it was in the beginning.
07:48So, I would say that no rules of sustainability are broken and moreover with time, the kind of benefits it is giving. The time between Jammu and Srinagar, the travel time is reduced by 50% which means that we are saving so much of emission on these roads of Jammu and Kashmir, that is sustainability.
08:07So, by reducing the travel time, you are cutting down fuel consumption and you are kicking off a whole ecosystem about it.
08:14Yes. When you talk about engineering and sustainability and essentially STEM fields, again there is the whole gender aspect that no matter how hard we try not to bring in our, in 21st century it is more relevant.
08:28And you have been the recipient of the top 75 women in STEM in India award. What's your take on women in STEM from a breaking gender barriers sort of a point of view?
08:45Because there is still the glass ceiling, you also, you still see a wage gap in certain countries and in certain industries especially in STEM.
08:54And there is also, as I said, a glass ceiling where the perception is that women cannot break it beyond a certain point.
09:03So, as somebody who has been involved in a monumental project like this at a very influential level, what do you have to say about it?
09:11Very relevant point. I wouldn't say that we don't have gender bias in our system. There is definitely this barrier and this glass ceiling what you are talking about.
09:19But I would say that the change should come from every point of view. Like women also should
09:27feel fearless in pursuing these professional trajectories. And also the industry has to understand
09:34the value of women in these fields. For example, women can deliver end to end. I have seen many
09:40women dropping out in taking the responsibilities. And I would definitely not just being a woman.
09:47I don't have that bias. But I have seen many women stay strong when they are like passionate
09:52about something. They go till end to tell you about that. I think this will be realized by
09:57industry when women can break the barriers and show their strength. It should come from both
10:02ways. Women also have to be fearless and industry also should recognize the merits of women in these
10:08fields. And then I think the path will be easier. It is changing, definitely changing. You can see
10:14lot of women CEOs these days. Lot of women in very important fields. You can see me. So, I think it is,
10:21there are few case studies as of now. Going forward, we will see many. That's my take.
10:26How do you think it can be like, what can a woman say who is married off at the age of 15, 16 after 10th or
10:36enter which is, which happens? Yes. What do you think she can do or what do you think are pathways in
10:44today's India, in today's? Yeah, that's a very, very pathetic situation because I have been in a situation
10:50where I would have got married at an age of 13, 14 because I came from a village and a rural setting,
10:56small background and people were, the only aim was like getting the girl married because that's one
11:03responsibility you have to get rid of. This still is a thing in many villages in India. I am very,
11:09very sad about it. I do not know like how to tell them that be fearless, do this, do that because they do
11:16not know, they do not have the educational background. The only way I can see is the government
11:22should give them the kind of support or education that is needed. There is so much is being done
11:29already, but I think this gap is still there. I have no idea how to break this, you know,
11:37even in my village, I see that girls getting married at a very engaged, whereas boys are sent to different
11:43countries for education and things like that. For example, now when my life story is published in many
11:49newspapers, many parents have written to me, now I will make my girl study, now I will make them study
11:55civil engineering all that. I think many such life stories have to come into picture where parents are
12:00inspired, seeing that this is how a girl also can be equal to a boy if not more than that. So, I think that
12:10should come from the parents and the system should support and publicize this that these are the
12:16opportunities. Beyond that, I think I am also like you feeling compassionate about what's happening in
12:22villages and the poor girls who are getting married at a very engaged and spending their whole life in
12:28doing this daily chores of helping the family, helping the kids and husband.
12:35So, this sort of a journey earned you a doctorate and then earned you a professorship and then earned
12:45you opportunities where you could get yourself involved in projects like the China Bridge, apart
12:51from winning you many awards including the Ramoji Excellence Award. What are your thoughts on this and
12:57what do you have to say to young women who are aspiring to be scientists or that young girl who looks at a
13:03scientist on TV and dreams to be that? Yeah, I think dreaming big is very important and at the same time
13:11you should understand your limitations. Everyone cannot do everything. So, you need to find your corner
13:17of the sky where you can fly high. This is what I believe in. Your life is not defined when you are born.
13:23For example, when I look at how I was as an young girl and how I am today, I would not have dreamt about
13:29like where I stand today. I had definitely a dream that I would fly high and I would be a big person.
13:35This dream was always there in heart and there is a passion to achieve the dream.
13:39My path was not defined. I evolved over the time and I grabbed the opportunities that came in my way, I would say.
13:46I was never like say no to thing which I am sure that this will bring something to me personal satisfaction or glory or professional recognition.
13:57I never backed off from that kind of a opportunity. So, opportunities do come in everyone's life. So, be fearless when you have an opportunity.
14:08Try to take this forward. About awards, recognitions, they follow. You do not like if I did not ask anyone to give an award actually.
14:16Everything just fell in place because I reached that stage. And the journey from the young girl to this, I think that was very hard and I did well.
14:25I would think today that all the awards what I am getting today are like for the whole hard work, not just the Chinob Railway Bridge.
14:35Because I studied in Telugu medium till twelfth class. So, when I joined my engineering, I was not even able to talk freely with people
14:42because I was very, you know, shy and I was, everything is taught in English. It was a big, big difficulty for me.
14:50But then I decided that I am going to conquer the world and then I trained myself in a way that today I can sit in any forum and talk about me.
14:59So, I think if I can do it, any girl can do it. Only thing is their family conditions and the opportunities when they come, they just have to grab it.
15:09And they have to be, they have to be consistent. Never give up. Never give up. Never settle for anything less than what you deserve.
15:17This is my message to all girls who have come from a smaller background like me.
15:23That's actually a very powerful thing that you said, ma'am. In fact, it made me, you know, feel something.
15:29Because you said, never settle for anything less than what you deserve.
15:34And that viewers was Dr. Madhavi Lata and her journey of grit and determination with consistent efforts throughout.
15:45This is Siddharth signing off for ETV Bharat.
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