Jammu and Kashmir Chief Minister Omar Abdullah, reacting to the Red Fort blast and the wider terror module that has been busted, appealed to the people and authorities to not believe that all Muslims or Kashmiri Muslims support terror.
00:00And joining me now is a special guest, the Jammu and Kashmir Chief Minister Omar Abdullah breaking his silence joins us on the news today. Appreciate your joining us, Mr. Abdullah. You've already made it very clear that you cannot associate every Kashmiri with terror. But the fact is that the nature of this terrorist attack has put Kashmir and Kashmiris once again under the scanner. How do you see what happened three days ago and the subsequent investigation?
00:28Well, as I said earlier in Jammu today while talking to journalists, I mean, no words of condemnation will be enough to condemn an attack that takes so many innocent civilian lives in the way that this one did.
00:45And no religion justifies using violence against innocent people. And therefore, those who have done this either for political or for religious purposes don't understand either the politics of the region or the religion that they profess to follow.
01:03So that said, I think it's also important to understand that this is a minuscule minority of the population that is involved in incidents like this. And we tend to forget that fact when an incident like this happens.
01:19You're saying it's a minuscule minority point taken. But the fact is this minuscule minority is clearly radicalized. It's using religion, using Islam to, in a sense, justify at times these horrific acts of violence and possibly with support from across the border.
01:40So even if it is a smaller group, the fact is that its capacity to spread terror, Mr. Abdullah is pretty worrying and concerning.
01:50Well, absolutely. Every time an attack like this happens, it should be a cause for worry and concern, because these sort of things were supposed to be a part of our past.
02:02We were told that it was Jammu and Kashmir's special status that was responsible for radicalization and terror, and that actually doing away with Jammu and Kashmir's special status would do away with the root cause of both radicalization and terror.
02:17But clearly, this year has shown that that is not the case, whether it was the attack in Pehalgaam or the blast in Delhi.
02:26The fact is that these elements continue to exist, and the changes that were brought to Jammu and Kashmir a few years ago have had no bearing on their existence.
02:39I'll come to the political point in a moment, but the fact, Mr. Abdullah, is that these terrorists, what makes it even more dangerous is most of them seem to be white collar.
02:51Some of them were doctors with MBBS degrees, and all of them seem to come from some part of Kashmir or the other.
02:59That's what is so worrying, isn't it? And that's why even while you say yes, you cannot target or stereotype or label every Kashmiri, when something like this happens, fear and anxiety is bound to grow, this rise of white collar terror from within the valley.
03:14Again, Rajdeep, white collar terror, as you call it, is not a new phenomenon.
03:18I remember a few years ago, we had an associate professor from a university in the valley who was, if I'm not mistaken, killed in an encounter.
03:28So we have had incidents like this in the past.
03:32And where does it say that somebody who picks up a gun or starts assembling a bomb has to be uneducated or poor or from a destitute background?
03:43I mean, radicalization is something that anybody can fall prey to.
03:51But I think the wider point also is that when elements like this are identified, then what happens?
03:58This doctor who got a job with this medical college had been terminated by the government of Jammu and Kashmir for terror links.
04:06Now, this raises two questions. One, if you had clear-cut evidence of terror links, why was no prosecution brought about?
04:14Why is there no court case? Why did you not take that dismissal further if you had evidence that led to his dismissal?
04:22And secondly, where was the background check that was done on the basis of which this job was given?
04:28Because even a cursory background check would have suggested that the person had been dismissed for alleged terror links.
04:34But clearly, the university or the medical college didn't do any background checks.
04:39And the government, having dismissed the doctor, then didn't follow it up with the evidence that they had to actually bring about a prosecution.
04:49But who are you holding responsible?
04:51Are you holding the Jammu and Kashmir administration here under the lieutenant governor responsible for these background checks not being done?
04:58Are you holding the center since law and order is in Jammu and Kashmir?
05:03The background check is the responsibility of the organization that recruits him.
05:07You can't hold the JNK government responsible for not doing a thorough background check.
05:11The person who recruited him, who gave him that job, they are the ones who had to do the background check.
05:20Yes, but at the same time, let's be clear, the Jammu and Kashmir police has done a pretty efficient, commendable job in busting this terror module.
05:29That's the positive that's come there.
05:31Every indication was that they intended to spread far greater havoc.
05:34And the Jammu and Kashmir police is the one who initially cracked this terror module.
05:39Ajit, if we'd cracked it, you wouldn't have had nine people dead.
05:42Well, they were able to, you know, they cracked a module in Faridabad.
05:52We didn't get there in time.
05:54And as people who know this more than I do, we have to be lucky every time.
06:01They have to be lucky only once.
06:03Yes, we cracked a module, but we obviously didn't get to these guys in time.
06:06And this explosive device went off and innocent people lost their lives.
06:12We got lucky in one part of it.
06:14And let's face it, we got unlucky with the other part.
06:17We weren't able to crack this particular part of the module in time to avoid an incident like this.
06:24So are you calling it a major security labs?
06:29Are you also saying that this is a major security labs, given the fact that it's almost impossible in a crowded city like Delhi to track every car?
06:37I'm not calling it anything.
06:39I'm not giving it names.
06:41I'm just telling you that we got unlucky, that as you said, we busted a module.
06:47I said, yes, we busted one part of it.
06:50But let's face it, we didn't bust the other part of it.
06:53And this attack took place.
06:54Now, I'm not privy to any intelligence.
06:57I get all my information from newspapers and TV channels like yours.
07:01I haven't had a phone call or a briefing from anybody about this attack.
07:05I'm the chief minister of Jamun Kashmir.
07:07And I have no idea about any of the things you're talking about.
07:11So, I mean, you might as well be analyzing this attack rather than me because I have no information that is not already in the public domain.
07:23You're sounding there.
07:24You're telling me that since this attack happened three days ago, no one from the center has communicated to the chief minister of Jammu and Kashmir
07:31anything about this investigation, even though the primary accused are residents of the Kashmir Valley?
07:38No, I haven't heard from anybody.
07:42And this is the problem with the system of governance that we have in Jammu and Kashmir.
07:47This is why I've always said that this system of governance does not work.
07:51When you put things into silos, you pigeonhole information.
07:56The elected government is kept completely out of the purview of any security-related decisions.
08:03And then we are the ones who are left answering the questions as to why something has happened and why something hasn't happened and why radicalization is taking place and why white-collar terrorism is visible again.
08:14I mean, if you're going to continue to operate in isolation, then I'm sorry, we're not the ones who are answerable for what happens then.
08:25And you know that this will only push the demand for statehood even further back because the center is now going to say that, look, Kashmir remains the hotbed for terror.
08:37And therefore, we need extra vigilance, extra control, extra central control.
08:41I'm not getting into that conversation today.
08:45Today is not the time.
08:47And I mean, it would take me 30 seconds to turn that argument completely on its head.
08:53But I'm not going to do that on your channel.
08:58But what I do want to ask you, the radicalization of terror, what are the root causes, according to you?
09:04The fact that these young men, even as you insist, they are a minority, what explains the fact that Kashmiri young men who are trained doctors have turned to terror?
09:15What are the roots of this radicalization?
09:17Does it lie in religion?
09:18Does it lie in the activities of groups like the J.S.
09:23Mohammed, a certain pan-Islamic radicalism?
09:25Where does it lie?
09:26I have no idea.
09:27I don't know.
09:28Different people get radicalized for different reasons.
09:32Some people get radicalized because they believe the government has treated them unfairly.
09:36Some people get radicalized because of religious indoctrination.
09:41Some people look at the political sort of future that they want Jammu and Kashmir to have and get radicalized accordingly.
09:51I don't know what was the root cause for the radicalization of the people involved in this attack.
09:56I guess that's something that the investigative agencies will have to arrive at.
10:00But I just want to make the point that the entire Jammu and Kashmir and the entire Kashmir community is not radicalized.
10:07And when you have orders like you saw in Gurgaon the other day asking for all Kashmiri Muslims to be identified,
10:13and I know this is happening in education institutions in cities like Gurgaon,
10:18they are being asked to provide lists of Kashmiri Muslim teachers engaged in academic institutions in places like Gurgaon and all.
10:28You are effectively saying, and the order said Kashmiri Muslims and foreigners.
10:34So you are effectively saying that Kashmiri Muslims and foreigners are one and the same thing and have to be treated accordingly.
10:40This is where I'm saying you need to be very careful.
10:43Not all Kashmiri Muslims are radicalized and certainly not all Kashmiri Muslims are supporters of terror.
10:51Will all the Kashmiri Muslims then come out in the same, with the same vigor that they came out after Pahlgam and said enough is enough?
10:58Why do we have to prove our nationality to you?
11:01Why do we have to prove our patriotism to you?
11:03Isn't it enough that I am saying it on behalf of the people of Jammu and Kashmir?
11:06Where else have people come out?
11:08I mean, it's always the Kashmiris and then the Indian Muslims have to come out.
11:13I mean, today you have five intellectuals who felt the need to just to condemn this attack
11:20and to make it known that Indian Muslims are not with terrorist organizations.
11:24I haven't seen anybody else come out and do this.
11:27It's always the Kashmiri Muslim and then by extension the Indian Muslim that is held to a higher standard.
11:34Somehow we have to prove our patriotism.
11:36We have to prove that we're not with terror.
11:38For everybody else, you just assume it to be the case.
11:41Why don't you assume it in our case?
11:42Assume that we're not with terror unless we actually come out and say that we support incidents like this.
11:47Omar Abdullah, as you know, because there is 30 years of history, a fraught history where Kashmiris have also suffered at the hands of terror
12:00and many believe that terror has been sponsored across the border.
12:03Now, that in a sense has led to prejudice, has led to the stereotyping.
12:08You give me a solution.
12:12Well, I've given you the first solution.
12:14Stop treating all of us as suspects.
12:16Stop making us, stop making all of us answerable for what Pakistan does.
12:21Stop, stop Pakistan allowing to determine our future.
12:26You decide for us what is good for us.
12:28Let us decide what is good for us.
12:30Isn't it enough for you that 50 to 60 percent of the people come out and participate in elections?
12:35Doesn't that show you where they stand?
12:38I mean, do we have to come out and light a candle every time, unfortunately, somebody does something like this?
12:48Omar Abdullah...
12:49I'm sorry.
12:50Let me make one wider point.
12:54Do you judge everybody from Jarkhand because of what the Naxalites did or everyone from Chhattisgarh or everyone from Assam because of what Ulfa did?
13:02No.
13:03You didn't ask them to rise to the same standards.
13:08Extend us the same courtesy as well then, please.
13:14I empathize with you, Omar Abdullah, but I'm just trying to...
13:19The average Indian today, when he sees what happened at the Red Fort, will in some way believe the worst in Kashmiri Muslims.
13:30You know, please look at it from the point of view.
13:34The average Indian will not believe the worst of Kashmiri Muslims.
13:38The average Indian will watch channels like yours, and I guess yours are slightly better than some of the others,
13:44and will then frame their opinion.
13:46They will watch what is being said on Facebook.
13:48They will see government orders that are being issued, and will then form an opinion about Kashmiris.
13:54Otherwise, I'm sure they will...
13:56So what you're saying...
13:58Sensible Indians will understand that the majority of the people of Jammu and Kashmir do not support terror,
14:04but if channels are going to villainize and demonize Kashmiris for having no part in this whatsoever,
14:11then obviously you're framing an opinion against the people of Jammu and Kashmir,
14:16and particularly against Kashmiri Muslims.
14:20So your message is loud and clear.
14:22Give exemplary punishment to those responsible for it,
14:25but for God's sake, do not demonize or villainize every Kashmiri Muslim.
14:30They reject these forces of terror, and they cannot be stereotyped and labeled in a manner,
14:36because that, in a sense, only breeds further anger.
14:39Am I correct?
14:41Absolutely.
14:41In a nutshell, that's it.
14:45Okay.
14:46In a nutshell, Omar Abdullah, for joining me here and breaking your silence,
14:50and once again speaking from your heart,
14:52I appreciate the Chief Minister of Jammu and Kashmir.
14:55It's shocking to learn that you have not even been communicated with in the last three days,
15:01even though this has happened in Jammu and Kashmir.
15:04That's a huge revelation from the Chief Minister of Jammu and Kashmir.
15:08Thank you very much, Omar Abdullah, for joining me.
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