00:00Estelle Willey joins us, Director of Health Policy at the Rockefeller Foundation.
00:03She joins us from Belém, Brazil, and she is at COP30.
00:06Good evening and thank you for being with us here on France 24.
00:09We really appreciate your time.
00:10You must be alarmed at the report from the UN talking of climate refugees,
00:15but perhaps not surprised because you're well aware of the issues that they're facing.
00:21Yes, absolutely.
00:23First of all, thank you so much for having me on.
00:25I really appreciate it, especially to raise awareness,
00:28especially an important issue.
00:30You know, extreme weather is here, extreme heat is here,
00:33and it's really driving people all over the world to the brink.
00:38When you hear the stat, extreme heat kills one person every minute,
00:44and it's impacting your life and your livelihoods,
00:49it's driving people, forcing them to migrate,
00:52and we're only going to see this issue become worse and worse if we don't act.
00:57Indeed, and as we're talking, of course,
01:00people in the Philippines are still underwater from the typhoon that struck.
01:03We understand another one is on the way.
01:05There have been all manner of disasters this year
01:08that we've all been reporting on across the whole news output agenda.
01:13But nonetheless, the issues are still there,
01:15and perhaps not being acted upon.
01:16The UN calling for more funding for countries
01:18to combat the negative effects of climate change.
01:21Do you sense, at COP30, this is going to happen?
01:26You know, COP30 comes at a really, really important time for the entire world,
01:33and it's really going to be a way in which we see multilateralism work,
01:39slowly but work.
01:42Right now, you know, previously and previous COPs,
01:46there's really been a focus on mitigation,
01:47which means, you know, the phase-out of fossil fuels.
01:51But in this COP, we are seeing both mitigation and adaptation
01:55rise to the forefront because of the leadership of the Brazil COP30 presidency.
02:02And adaptation in the health community is development.
02:05It's what are we doing to adapt so that we can live on this planet?
02:12And the COP30 Brazil presidency is doing everything it can
02:16to really elevate this issue,
02:18both from the negotiation side through the global goal on adaptation,
02:23in which all nations right now in rooms right here
02:27are negotiating the operationalizing of the global goal on adaptation,
02:34and then also on the other side, the presidential action agenda,
02:39the Brazil presidency has developed the BLEM Health Action Plan,
02:43which is going to be launched tomorrow.
02:45And this is really to help countries understand
02:49what are the evidence-based solutions that they can invest in now
02:53that can help save lives and secure futures in their country.
02:58So really seeing the Brazil leadership here and elevating this problem,
03:04really focusing on both the people impacted and the planet
03:07and how it's interlinked is just really, really great to see here.
03:12Indeed.
03:12For some people, Estelle, your message is loud and clear
03:15that there is progress being made.
03:16But I'm thinking of some places that I've traveled to in Africa
03:19where you meet people who are really struggling
03:22just to put food on the table
03:24and to ask them to make the kind of sacrifices
03:26that perhaps we ask of people in more affluent societies
03:29seems in many ways unfair.
03:31Is there any way to even that discrepancy out?
03:36Absolutely.
03:37This is the terminology that they call means of implementation.
03:41And at COP30, this is going to be the biggest part of the negotiation.
03:47How are you asking and expecting countries from the global south
03:51to sign on to the global goal and adaptation
03:54if the global north countries aren't willing to finance that work?
03:59So this is what's happening in the negotiations right now as we speak.
04:06Look, it's been years-long progress to get where we are right now.
04:11At Bonn, it was the biggest, biggest sticking point.
04:14The negotiations concluded really, really early morning hours
04:21at Bonn in June this year.
04:24And after that, there have been convenings all throughout the fall
04:28so that countries can come together.
04:31And this is really where the rubber meets the road.
04:33And I'm really hoping that we see some action here,
04:36especially from the global north countries
04:38who, you know, have done more to cause this problem
04:43with the use of fossil fuels than the global south countries
04:47who are really feeling the worst impacts of it right now.
04:50Some, you mentioned multilateralism.
04:53Clearly, Donald Trump isn't one of the people
04:54who would sign up to that idea.
04:56I won't get you to comment directly on Donald Trump
04:58because I think that might put you in a difficult position.
05:00But you mentioned June.
05:0286 million people by June were displaced across the world,
05:05many of them facing problems of increasing heat.
05:09Are there any countries, out of their own means,
05:11with their own ingenuity, who are doing a good job?
05:16Absolutely.
05:17We have countries like Senegal
05:19who have developed heat action protocols.
05:23And what this is, is creating an early warning system
05:25that brings together the weather,
05:28the meteorological community, with the health community,
05:30to alert the decision makers in local communities
05:35that there is going to be a heat wave.
05:38And this is what you do
05:40to stop the heat wave from impacting people's lives.
05:44So what this means on the ground is
05:46because heat is so insidious
05:50and it impacts every single sector of a community,
05:53it requires a whole of society response.
05:57But that means that every single sector in a community
06:00needs to be mandated to work together.
06:02And Senegal, what they did by mandating this
06:06through the heat action protocol,
06:08they were able to identify
06:11when the threshold for extreme heat happens.
06:15And when that hit,
06:17they're able to just cascade
06:19a whole bunch of different solutions.
06:22And these solutions are low cost
06:24and easy to do,
06:26but they do require planning ahead.
06:28So this is cooling stations,
06:30water, rest, cash schemes,
06:34so that people, daily wage workers,
06:36cannot work in the hot sun,
06:38but they can still provide for their family.
06:40These are simple things,
06:42but they do take quite a lot of coordination
06:45in order to facilitate this
06:48and to do it ahead of an actual problem.
06:51We're also seeing this in Malawi.
06:53Right now, they're doing a rapid vulnerability assessment.
06:58And from this,
06:59they're creating the evidence space
07:01to understand where are the vulnerabilities
07:03in their country.
07:05And from that,
07:06they're going to be developing
07:07a national health adaptation plan.
07:12And from there,
07:13that is the platform to bring in finance,
07:17domestic finance,
07:17and then also bring in finance
07:22from the World Banks
07:23and the IMFs of the world
07:24and finance from philanthropies
07:26like the Rockefeller Foundation
07:27and others.
07:28And it's really a platform
07:30where it's saying,
07:31this is the country priorities
07:33and we want you to come in
07:35to invest in this.
07:37Estelle, I need to cut you off.
07:38Thank you so much indeed, though.
07:40Estelle, Willie,
07:40I'm really sorry we have to cut you off,
07:42but that is absolutely brilliant.
07:43It shows that there is
07:45a lot to be cheerful about
07:47in terms of turning this around
07:49from what looks like
07:49a very disastrous situation.
07:51Estelle, Willie,
07:51thank you for bringing that illumination
07:53into this story for us.
07:54Yes, of course.
07:55Thank you very much indeed.
07:56Thank you so much for having me.
07:57I hope COP30 continues to be a success for you
07:58and you see the results
07:59that you're looking for there
08:00in Berlin, Brazil.
08:01Thank you, Estelle, for joining us.
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