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Who Hired the Hitman? - Season 1 Episode 2 -
The Murder of Big Joe
The Murder of Big Joe
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02:58Bé, bây giờ tôi đã đến, bởi vì tôi có những chỉ, buì sinh lần nữa và khi tôi vào trường, tôi đã gần sang và đường, chữ le thật, thật tình하겠습니다, chữ l neutral được, không thể bước không có những nhau, tôi đi lên trường và nhìn thấy, tôi thấy, anh ở trên đường đó, tất cả xưa, tôi chú kết hệ, chú lời cho việc nhé, Joe, Joe, Joe, get up, you awake, you all right, Joe,
03:28There was no response
03:30So I went over and I put my two fingers
03:32My index finger and my middle finger
03:34On his back
03:36And at that point is when I
03:38Realized
03:40Something was terribly wrong here
03:42And he was cold to the touch
03:46Our people got a call
03:48The officers took a look
03:50At the scene
03:52Found Joan Lewinsky
03:54Face down in his bed
03:56Waiting from the area of his ear
03:58And apparently
04:00Deceased
04:02When we entered the crime scene
04:04It was in disarray
04:06They didn't find any sign of forced entry
04:10Clothes strewn about etc
04:12The wallet was left open
04:14It's hard to tell if something is missing
04:16Because we don't know what's normally
04:18At the scene
04:20So initially
04:22The thought is well was there a struggle
04:24Was there a dispute that went on
04:28However
04:30The body tells a different story
04:32Joe was laying in bed
04:34Partially undressed
04:36And covered by a blanket
04:38Suggesting that at the time
04:40He was probably asleep
04:42About midnight was the approximate
04:44Time of death
04:46And he was a big guy
04:48So if in fact he had been awakened
04:50While
04:52The assailants were present
04:54There would have been a struggle
04:56And there would have been a fight
04:58And the scene would have been much different
05:00So what we took away was that
05:02He was basically executed
05:04While he was sleeping
05:06We could see
05:08There were copper bullet fragments
05:10Present on and near the body
05:12And there were little bits of paper
05:14Surrounding his head
05:16Clem Curiosity reported
05:18The scene was
05:20The presence of a business card
05:22On the side of Joe's head
05:24The card was kind of a mystery
05:26The name of their company was
05:30Pain Realty
05:32Now it's spelled differently than
05:34Pain P-A-I-N
05:36But
05:37The significance of the word
05:39Pain may be
05:40Connected in some way
05:42Maybe the suspect
05:43Left it as an indication
05:45That yeah
05:46Couldn't deliver some pain
05:49The murder of Joe Nowinski
05:51Was a rarity
05:53And not something we see often
05:55Especially in West Hartford
05:57West Hartford
05:58West Hartford is a suburb
05:59Of the city of Hartford
06:01It's a pretty safe town
06:03We'd get a murder
06:05Maybe every other year
06:07It was a whodunit to start with
06:09So the officers looked into
06:11The victims' friends
06:13Relatives and associates
06:14Because they didn't
06:15Shed any light on the incident
06:25I met Joe
06:27Like 56 years ago
06:29He was 14
06:30I was 10
06:31You know
06:32We're riding bikes
06:33Playing basketball
06:34We're always at one another's house
06:35As we got a little older
06:36Probably around 12-13 years old
06:38We dated for
06:39Pretty much six years
06:40On and off
06:41And then we
06:42We got married
06:43A year after high school
06:44I was 19
06:45Joey was what?
06:4722, 23
06:48When we got married
06:49That's our wedding photo
06:51He was just
06:53Really caring
06:54And
06:55Made me feel
06:57You know
06:58That
06:59He was just the one
07:00That I thought
07:01I was gonna spend
07:02The rest of my life
07:03Then we talked about
07:04Having a family
07:05And having kids
07:06And things like that
07:07That just got to the point
07:09Later on
07:10I guess we kind of
07:11Just like grew apart
07:12We were divorced
07:13We were married
07:14Pretty much
07:15Probably about
07:16Almost three years
07:17Three and a half years
07:18I to this day
07:19Believe that he loved me
07:20And he still
07:21But we were just
07:22Better friends
07:23Than we were
07:24As husband and wife
07:25Joe never remarried
07:26Or had children
07:27But he loved his family
07:30Uncle Joey was
07:32A big kid
07:33He just liked
07:34To have fun
07:35He had to be
07:36The center of attention
07:37Like the biggest personality
07:38In the room
07:39And he just
07:40He didn't grow up
07:41And even
07:42Like I was looking
07:43At some pictures
07:44And it's
07:45The five siblings
07:46And it's a picture
07:47Of them all
07:48As little kids
07:49And he's standing
07:50Behind them
07:51Like making a pose
07:53And that's so him
07:54Even as a kid
07:55Joe is my uncle
07:57He was definitely
07:58The fun uncle
07:59He was the guy
08:00With the loud car
08:01Boats
08:02Motorcycles
08:03One of the things
08:04I think about the most
08:05When I think about him
08:06Is my grandmother yelling at him
08:08For driving too fast
08:09Because you could
08:10Usually hear him
08:11Coming up the street
08:15When we were crazy kids
08:16Growing up
08:17His true passion was
08:20Cars
08:21Had to have a high performance motor
08:23Had to have the loud exhaust
08:25My brother Steve
08:26Owned a car
08:28That he used to drag race
08:29And we did a lot of things
08:31A lot of boating
08:32A lot of amusement parks
08:35A lot of racing
08:36A lot of demolition derbies
08:38That's one
08:39And
08:40Used to go blue fishing
08:42Oh my god
08:45You know how you know
08:47Joe was on the boat
08:48Big blue
08:49Yeah, big blue
08:50He'd be yelling
08:51Oh my god
08:52He cleared the boat out, right?
08:53Just so he could get his side of the boat
08:55Yeah, big mouth
08:56Big, big, big large mouth
08:58He had to be noticed
08:59And he was
09:00I think Uncle Joey
09:02Lived his life to the fullest
09:03Every time I think Uncle Joey
09:04If I just remember back to when I was little
09:06It's always fun things that I remember
09:08I just remember happiness and love
09:10And that's all I want him to be remembered
09:14It breaks my heart that he's
09:18Most people only know him as a murder victim
09:22When they said they found Joe
09:24That he was dead
09:26They said he was shot
09:27I didn't want to know
09:28Because I didn't want to remember him
09:30That last time I saw him
09:32I wanted to remember how I knew him before
09:34Not seeing him with a bullet in his head
09:37And laying in his bed
09:39I didn't want
09:40I didn't want that
09:41I wanted to remember him like you see him in there
09:45With that smile
09:46This gold chain
09:52He's loved
09:53He's still loved
09:59After his murder
10:00There was lots of questions
10:02You know, why?
10:03I didn't know if there was somebody
10:05Trying to get revenge on him
10:07Were they going to try to hurt someone else in the family?
10:09A lot of us all went into hiding at that point
10:12We kind of stayed home
10:13And my mother said, Raymond, watch your back
10:15Because you have no idea who or what
10:18Or when it might be coming for you or anybody else
10:24The investigators really were at a loss
10:27For what this might have been
10:29They obviously go speak to various people
10:31To try to find out if there was any ongoing beefs
10:34Or anything like that
10:36They also now look into the business card from Payne Real Estate
10:40And, you know, whether that had any role
10:43We did connect with the owner of the company
10:45And he had stated that Joe had wanted to buy some property
10:49And it didn't work out
10:50But he took his business card
10:52And he had nothing to do with it
10:54You know, everything's a building block in an investigation
10:57You start from the body, work your way out
11:00And try to figure out what has meaning in a crime scene
11:03And what doesn't
11:05There was not any forced entry in this situation
11:08And, you know, it appears Mr. Nowinski knew his attacker
11:12Investigators learned that Joe, the deceased, had a girlfriend
11:19Rosemary Cusano
11:23She was 30s, tall, long flowing hair
11:28Sexy looking
11:32She wear a lot of lipstick
11:34Real deep red lipstick all the time
11:37I ain't kissed that broad, you're gonna be red all over
11:39I know Joe was very much in love with her
11:45How could he not? She was a very good looking woman
11:50From what I know
11:52From what I seen of Rose with Joe
11:54Being how long they were together
11:56For me it wasn't long
11:58Because I
11:59Joe just brought her on
12:01I'd say
12:02If anything
12:04Couple of months
12:06Maybe a couple of months
12:07We would meet her at parties
12:10My wife would talk to her
12:12Play sports
12:13We'd eat
12:14We'd drink
12:15We'd have fun
12:16I know she was very, like, flirtatious with his friends and stuff
12:22One day my aunt was standing behind Rosemary and one of my uncle's friends
12:27And I guess she made a very sexual comment to his friend
12:30So I think that thought process with some of my family was that she was like that to men
12:39We all understood how she was
12:40She liked to flirt with the guys and stuff like that
12:43Hitting on guys like them
12:45Hugging them, putting their arm around, you know
12:47Talking with them
12:48Not meaning anything
12:49Just to tease Joe
12:51He was a little bit jealous like that, you know
12:52When an investigator hears that someone is talking about maybe a loved one
12:58But not in a very positive way
13:00That's a person that I want to talk with
13:04We actually contacted his girlfriend, Rosemary
13:09She was very forthcoming with information
13:13But she didn't seem upset
13:16Rosemary gave us a background on their relationship
13:19It was complicated
13:22Their relationship was pretty hot and cold
13:26I think they were both very emotional people
13:31And she, you know, shared that he could be verbally abusive at times
13:37And sometimes physically abusive
13:44Yeah, I think I do recall hearing that
13:46Joe would sometimes get loud with her for various reasons
13:52There was a time where I was at the shop working
13:56And they were clearly in a shout-and-match
13:59It clearly elevated
14:01She was hands-on all over him
14:03Yeah, of course, he, you know, puts his hands up and tries to get away
14:07And, you know, hold her back a little bit
14:09I stepped in between them and I said, no, this has got to stop her
14:12Joe, this has got to stop her, I'm leaving
14:13I don't know what it was pertaining to
14:18But it was a time that I was very uncomfortable and they knew it
14:23It slowed down at that point
14:26They did stop the bickering
14:28And we'll leave it at that
14:30This piques our interest
14:32We want to try to confirm
14:33And there was another friend of the victim
14:39Telling us that Joe treated Rosemary very bad
14:44This was Mark Pasquale
14:48He had a small engine repair shop
14:50He worked on boats, boat motors and jet skis and snowmobiles
14:56I don't think particularly prosperous
14:58He lived in his parents' house in the basement
15:01Mark Pasquale was someone Joe met up at the lake
15:06Joe was having trouble with his boat
15:11Went over to the marina to see if they could see what was wrong with it
15:15And that's where he met Mark
15:17Joe had a boat and Mark had a marine repair shop
15:21So the friendship was probably more convenient for Joe to get some free work done on his boat
15:30He was, he's a weird looking guy
15:32He's a pretty short man
15:35His hair is really, really curly, kind of all over the place
15:39He's not the most attractive being
15:42Mark, I'm not going crazy eyes, huh?
15:45He did have one wandering eye
15:48Joe, I said, Joe, man, this guy ain't for you, man
15:51What are you hanging with him for?
15:52Well, you got the marina
15:53Get my boat fixed for nothing, Steve
15:55Take care of me
15:56I said, I don't know, Joe
15:58I don't know, Joe
15:59That guy ain't too slick
16:01We were talking to him
16:03And Mark admitted that he knew Rosemary and Joe
16:07Mark said he treated her violently
16:10And perhaps there was some fear of that
16:12We delved a little further with Rosemary about Joe
16:18It turns out, Rosemary was the last person to actually have eyes on, see him alive
16:25This case, Rosemary told us earlier that day
16:39She had stopped to see him
16:44She went upstairs and his door was open
16:48Our apartment was in disarray
16:49He was lying in the bed and she surprised him and he's like, what the hell are you doing here?
16:57And she goes, the door was open
16:59I was calling you, the door is open
17:01And he said something like, well, that's not like me
17:04And I think she saw a joint in the ashtray or something
17:10And he became very irate, yelled and screamed at her, told her to get the hell out
17:15Pushed her against the wall, she left
17:18And then they spoke a little bit later and they went to dinner together
17:23Like nothing ever happened
17:28Rosemary, she had kids and she told us
17:31He had all kinds of presents wrapped up for all the kids that night
17:38Joe gave them early Christmas presents
17:40And as they leave, the last thing Joe says to her is something to the effect of, have a nice life
17:55I think he realized that he and Rosemary had come to the end
18:00He gave those presents to the boys two weeks before Christmas
18:05Maybe Joe had decided that he was done with Rosemary
18:10Was there some motive here?
18:14It wouldn't be abnormal for her to have access to his apartment
18:18When they had this information, their first thoughts were, did Rosemary kill Joe?
18:25When the investigator hears that someone has placed themselves at the scene, it piques our interest
18:38Oftentimes people that are closer to the victim are often looked at
18:43But you don't want to go necessarily with one theory and try to make your evidence fit that theory
18:49You want to be open to any possibility
18:51I believe it was in the area of 8 or 9 p.m. that Rosemary had last seen Joe
19:01And she goes home with her boys
19:04In this case, we conduct our interviews and we check with alibis
19:09And we verified that she was telling the truth
19:12And the problem was, one of Joe Nowinski's employees was supposed to work that night
19:19And so Joe had left some keys for him in the mailbox
19:22The keys were not in the usual place
19:27One can assume it could have been used by the killers to get in, especially to get in quietly
19:32It was well known that Joe kept a spare key in his mailbox
19:41If anyone knew that could access the apartment
19:45And at this point, we had nothing to indicate that Rosemary was directly involved
19:51But during our interview with Rosemary, we learned
19:58Joe had some dicey relationships with other people
20:01He sold a little weed, he sold a little coke
20:04Load trucking, turning back odometers
20:07Who the hell is saying that? The cops are saying that? No!
20:10I was a mechanic for Joe, and at no time did Joe ever ask me to roll back an odometer
20:15Stolen merchandise, gambling, sale of false ID
20:19One of the early concerns of the investigators was there might be too many suspects
20:24Just based on him being a jerk to people around
20:27And his lifestyle, it was somewhat of a mystery
20:30He had told some friends over a period of a couple weeks
20:35That a couple of his cars in his driveway, the tires had been slashed
20:40The window in the garage was broken
20:43The incidents occurred probably a week prior to the murder
20:52He thought somebody had targeted him
20:58He was concerned that if somebody is causing property damage
21:03Will that lead to violent actions?
21:06So he inquired with somebody about some sort of surveillance or security system
21:13But that never came to fruition
21:18It piques my interest
21:20But we were unable to determine who slashed those tires
21:24However, we interviewed Rosemary again
21:28And Rosemary shared with us
21:31That several weeks leading up to the homicide
21:34There was a small family outing that Rosemary, I think her mother and her sister and her kids
21:44They took a day trip to Yankee Candle up in Massachusetts
21:49And Joe didn't go, but his friend Mark did
21:53Which was just kind of odd
21:59And then he said, well, tell us more about Mark
22:04Rosemary was complaining to Mark about this relationship she had
22:07That Joseph Nowinski did not treat her so well
22:10At one point Mark says to her, I know Joe treats you horribly
22:16And then Mark told Rosemary that he had hired a private investigator to follow Nowinski
22:22And it turns out he's going into Hartford and he's picking up prostitutes
22:26And taking them home and having sex with them
22:29Prostitutes? I have no knowledge of that
22:31I have no knowledge
22:33Why would you go hire some prostitute when you can have any picket of litter you want?
22:38Come on!
22:39I know Joe very well
22:41He was not running around with no hookers
22:43I hope I'm not wrong, but I don't think so
22:46I've never seen it
22:47So when Rosemary recounts that conversation with Mark about, you know, a private eye
22:56Observing and confirming that Joe is looking for prostitutes
23:00She presented to us that that really angered her
23:07And she makes the statement that I should have somebody beat him up
23:12And Mark's reply is, better yet, why don't you have someone put a bullet in his head
23:21That's an aha moment
23:27And that's pretty close to what happened
23:29So it was a statement of some significance to us
23:33And all the conversation that Joe thought somebody was out to get him
23:37Not in the slightest did he ever inform anyone that he thought Mark was that person
23:48Two days after the murder, he was interviewed at our police station again
23:54Once my partner and I started speaking with Mark Peskell
23:59Mark was forthcoming with information regarding his relationship with Joe
24:04And he admitted that he knew Rosemary
24:08He hung out with Joe, knew him for about two years
24:11But he denied any involvement in the murder
24:15And his alibi, which if you could call it that, was that he was working
24:20And he went home and watched TV
24:22And it's not a rock-solid alibi
24:24But a lot of people do have that
24:26People that live alone, for instance
24:28And he denied a statement about a bullet in the head
24:30But then he admitted that he did tell Rosemary about the private investigator
24:35And then revealed to us that there was no private investigator
24:40That was a story he told Rosemary
24:45And then Mark was characterizing his and Rosemary's relationship
24:50As a romantic sexual relationship
24:52This dude's so full of shit, man
24:55That really
24:58He had no sticky relationship with her
25:00Come on, man
25:07In addition to that trip in Massachusetts
25:10In November, he and Rosemary
25:13Went away for a weekend up in Maine
25:16And they had sex
25:21And I went to Mars recently
25:24And I got some popcorn and I watched a good movie
25:27You won't believe that one, will you?
25:32We got no indication
25:34That that was the relationship from Rosemary
25:37And that's an indication of us
25:40That Mark may be in a little bit of a fantasy land
25:43So, we want to be able to gauge
25:49Whether he is telling the truth
25:52Whether he's being deceptive or not
25:54We briefly spoke with him
25:56And we offered him the polygraph
26:03Now, the results of the polygraph are not admissible in court
26:08However, it is a tool to detect deception
26:10And he showed many signs of deception
26:20We confronted him with the discrepancies
26:23Listen, you're deceptive here, you're deceptive there
26:26Either you thought you were doing something good
26:29You thought you were saving this woman from domestic violence
26:33Or you're a cold-blooded murderer
26:35When you shot the guy in the head
26:38What happened?
26:41He said, you know what?
26:43I'm going to tell you everything
26:46I'm going to tell you everything
26:48I don't want a lawyer
26:51I just want to get it over with
26:53The investigator called me at home
26:58And his exact words were, we got a break in the case
27:02All the original theories about who this might have been went out the window
27:05And it became a murder for hire
27:06During our interview with Mark, he said, I know who did it
27:14Two young, 18, 19-year-old youth
27:18Who he knew from being around town
27:20Someone named Eduardo
27:22Someone named Matt
27:23Someone named Matt
27:28I am Matthew Terrell's cousin
27:30We were pretty close as a family growing up
27:34We would all come gather together for holiday dinners, family picnics
27:39I was the only girl of all of the kids
27:45Matt would always make sure that I was okay
27:47He would always make sure that I was included
27:50He would always make sure that I was included
27:56He was just, he was just a kind soul
27:59I'm sorry
28:03When Matt transitioned into like middle school and high school
28:08There were a little bit more unsavory things that he might have been exposed to
28:13He did spend some time in and out of Juvenile Hall
28:17And I don't think back then I really knew how much he was struggling in his personal life
28:25Maybe things would have turned out differently
28:28If you're not in the criminal life
28:33You probably don't know anybody who will kill for hire
28:36You can't go on Angie's list and look for a four-star review
28:42You have to ask around
28:47Initially Mark said he knew Eduardo Santiago
28:53From his small engine repair or boat shop
28:56And Matthew seemed to be more a friend of Eduardo Santiago
29:00Mark tells them this girl Rosemary
29:02She's got a really, you know, bad boyfriend
29:06He beats her up, he's horrible, he's awful
29:09He asked them if they would be interested
29:11Or they knew somebody
29:13Who would kill someone for, for money
29:16And
29:19The response was, well
29:21What do you got? And how much?
29:25So the plan was to use the rifle
29:27But it's going to be loud and they would have to, you know, develop some kind of silencer or suppressor
29:34This is a book called
29:36It's got a lot of how to's for various dirty tricks
29:40On how to manufacture drugs, weapons
29:43And one of the areas is how to make homemade silencers
29:46And the book was readily available at libraries, bookstores
29:51Apparently Eduardo may have read that to create a homemade silencer
29:57With an empty soda bottle taped to the end of the barrel and filled with paper towels
30:02And that also explains the little pieces of paper that they found on Joe Nowinski that night
30:07Night of the murder, Mark drove the two of them about half a block away from the victim's house
30:14The three of them walked to Joe's residence
30:19They took the key that was in the mailbox
30:23And that's where Joe kept it
30:25Who's going to look in your mailbox for a key?
30:28The only thing I can think is that Mark knew Joe had put his keys in the mailbox
30:34Both Eduardo and Matthew went upstairs
30:38Mark claimed he waited outside and he heard a muffled noise
30:43And the two men returned to him and said, he's done
30:48In some ways, it's a relief that you finally got the story
30:54You finally are on the right track
30:56But it doesn't end here
30:58Mr. Tyrell was arrested by the detectives
31:01Also, our department sent a team out to Mr. Taniago's house
31:13And found him asleep in bed
31:16In one of the bedrooms, they found a .223 rifle
31:20Which matched the type of firearm that was used in the killing of Joe
31:25They also found additional rounds in Eduardo's house
31:29Eduardo admitted to being at the scene
31:35The business card turned out is more when they went through his wallet
31:39The card fell out and fell onto him
31:42And then he claimed that it was Matthew who shot Joe
31:47Matt pointed the finger at him, he pointed the finger at Matt
31:49However, Eduardo's palm prints were lifted off of the murder weapon
31:57But there's also a lot more evidence related to the crime
32:02We got the call from the lab, my investigator told me they had found markings on
32:07Some of the projectiles and casings, and it was something I had never seen before
32:12He goes, somebody etched a name in one of the bullets
32:16What's the name?
32:20J-O-E
32:26So one of those bullets had the victim's name on it
32:31Our belief is that Eduardo Santiago had carved Joe's name on these rounds
32:37He not only carved it on the cartridge, which is fairly large
32:44But he had actually carved Joe on a round that was about that big
32:52It's a Hollywood idea of having a bullet with someone's name on it
32:56But in this case, Eduardo Santiago made it very literal
32:58Just shows how twisted these people are
33:03Like, no nice kid is gonna go do something like this
33:07And when you hear what they did it for, what the price was, you scratch your head
33:13Mark, we asked them, well, how much? What was the payment? What was, you know, how much?
33:18And he said, well, they didn't want cash because they were interested in a snowmobile I had in my garage
33:28And they pointed to one he had, and he told them, it needs to transmit
33:35And he goes, well, we'll take it
33:37That's what it comes down to, a broken snowmobile
33:40We were all taken back that somebody could kill for a broken down snowmobile
33:47And that's all they kept saying was a snowmobile, a broken down snowmobile
33:50I'm like, what?
33:52There's a lot of questions that I don't understand
33:56It doesn't add up, Mark and Joe
33:58If they were friends, friends help friends
34:02Friends don't kill friends
34:05Or was there something else that was causing this?
34:10So you would think the link is Rosemary
34:16Many murder for hire plots start with a spouse, a girlfriend, a boyfriend
34:22Did Rosemary set this up?
34:27What are your feelings about Rosemary?
34:40In my heart, in my heart only
34:43I think that she fueled the fire
34:46She fueled the fire on this
34:48And there's a lot of us still wondering about this
34:52If Joe and Rosemary were really going through hard times
34:57Wouldn't it have been just easier to wait it out for Mark?
35:01If Ro and Joe were going to separate, then Mark would eventually have Ro anyhow?
35:09It just doesn't make sense
35:11I just feel that if this guy was because of Rosemary
35:15Is this why Joe died because of Rosemary?
35:17So some reason I just feel
35:19Well, if he never hooked up with her
35:21That he would be alive today
35:23Hi, Rosemary, this is the producer with the documentary
35:30I've been outside your apartment for two hours
35:34We need to take you to your interview
35:36So we had dealings with Rosemary Cassano
35:46When she spoke to us at the state's attorney's office
35:49Very much in love with Joe
35:51Who could be gruff and verbally abusive
35:54But a nice guy, she said he's a nice guy
35:57I don't know that there was any outward signs of domestic violence
36:01But the way Mark perceived their relationship
36:03Was a lot different than what Rosemary described their relationship as
36:08He felt he was Rosemary's savior
36:12Mark thought that he and Rosemary were going to have a life together
36:22That if Joe was out of the picture
36:25He and Rosemary could go off into the sunset
36:29Mark almost became proud of what he had done
36:34Because at the end of that interview
36:36He said, can I call Rosemary to tell her
36:39That he had set this whole thing up
36:41Because he wanted to be the hero himself to Rosemary
36:45They thought that very strange
36:49It was almost like an honorable thing for him to have done
36:53Or would be seen as such in Rosemary's eyes
36:56Rosemary subsequently cleared of any suspicion
37:00I don't feel sorry for Mark, no
37:14You know, Mark was the orchestrator of all this
37:17If there wasn't Mark, Joe would still be here today
37:20That's how I feel
37:21Mr. Santiago elected to go to trial
37:29He was nothing but arrogant
37:32Every time we ever saw him
37:34He just had this smirk on his face
37:36Oh my God
37:38I'll just never forget like, you know, I'm a big shot
37:41I shot him type thing
37:43The only one I'd say I did feel sorry for
37:46It was the other one of Matthew
37:48He looked so young
37:50He looked like a little kid
37:52I will say this, Matthew Tyrell
37:54We approached Matthew Tyrell
37:56There was nothing we could offer him
37:57In terms of his cooperation in this case
38:01And I just assumed when we brought him in
38:03He was going to look at me and say, thanks, but no thanks
38:06I'm just going to go serve my sentence
38:09He looked at me, thought for a moment
38:12And then said, you know what?
38:13I'll testify, it's the right thing to do for the family
38:15When Matt came to court to testify during Santiago's trial
38:31He read a statement
38:33He was sorry for what he did, that he should have stopped it
38:37He apologized to our entire family, to his family
38:41And he was sobbing almost uncontrollably
38:45The fact that Matt
38:48Cooperated with the police
38:50It tells me that
38:53He is
38:55The kid that I grew up with
38:57And deep down in his heart
39:00He's not this person
39:05I know most of us in my family think he got a bad deal
39:10There's days I wonder
39:12If he really deserves to spend the rest of his life in prison
39:15If he really deserves to spend the rest of his life in prison
39:18Past 25 years
39:21It's still hard for
39:23Our family
39:24My oldest brother, every year
39:30Never lets me forget
39:34He just says, he just called me and says, remember?
39:37Well today this day
39:39It's the day our brother got taken from us
39:44My brother Rick
39:46He loved Joe
39:47He did a lot
39:49He did a lot
39:53My brother loves him
39:55But I feel bad in him
39:57He never forgets
39:59He never forgets
40:01He never forgets
40:0325 years
40:04I've been hearing that every year
40:05What does that tell you?
40:08What does that tell you?
40:12Joe was loved
40:14I was just, it was different
40:16That he was here
40:18And you were interviewing him
40:21And
40:25He loved him
40:26Joe was the nucleus
40:27Joe held people together
40:29Joe was the nucleus
40:31Joe held people together
40:33And if he were here today
40:35He would have held the group together
40:40It's taken 25 years
40:44But Joe Nowinski has
40:46Pulled us all together again
40:48By this documentary
40:52And
40:56He's working from the heavens
40:58And I'm sure we all will
41:01Cherish and honor that memory
41:11A lot of stuff can be hush hush
41:13Sometimes in a small town
41:15I've never heard of a murder for hire case
41:17Especially out of Clay County, Kentucky
41:18It was somebody with a madera
41:20He was very short
41:22He had no teeth
41:24Not attractive at all
41:26The witch doctor
41:28That was the name that he went by
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