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BazZoOKa López
  • hace 2 días
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00:00:00¡Suscríbete al canal!
00:00:30I don't know why it's important, like, how it helps people, like, dealing with her loss, like, making up stories about ghosts or whatever.
00:00:50Alice kept secrets. She kept secrets a secret.
00:01:00It's hard for some people to understand, but you have to believe you're to blame or else there's nothing to hold on to.
00:01:30Thank you.
00:02:00¿Puedo saber dónde está?
00:02:01Estamos en el otro lado de la ciudad.
00:02:04La ciudad está en la ciudad.
00:02:06¿Puedo saber algo?
00:02:08¿Puedo hablar conmigo por un segundo?
00:02:10¿Puedo saber dónde está?
00:02:12¿Puedo saber? ¿Puedo ver?
00:02:24La situación de Ararat es Norval
00:02:27was shattered yesterday
00:02:28with the disappearance of 16-year-old Alice Palmer
00:02:31while picnicking with her family.
00:02:33We received a call around 6pm tonight
00:02:35of a missing girl
00:02:36and on discovering the nature of the situation
00:02:39we called in the search and rescue divers from Melbourne.
00:02:42Police divers entered the water
00:02:43around 10 o'clock with SES volunteers
00:02:45joining a fruitless search.
00:02:47Matt and Allie had someone out to the middle of the dam
00:02:50and I could see them
00:02:52from where I was sitting at the picnic area.
00:02:55I think I've been in the water for about 15 minutes
00:02:57and I said that I was going to get out
00:03:00because it got cold
00:03:01so I started swimming back
00:03:03and she didn't come out with me
00:03:05so I thought she's going to stay in there.
00:03:09I remember Matty got out
00:03:10and a few minutes later
00:03:15I heard him ask where it was Alice.
00:03:21So I stood up and looked out across the dam
00:03:26and the water was completely still
00:03:29so I called out.
00:03:32I looked out over the water
00:03:37to see if I could see her
00:03:39and both the boys had kind of checked
00:03:45the bushland behind.
00:03:49I could see Alice's towel
00:03:51she'd left it on the ground
00:03:53and she clearly hadn't gone out of the water
00:03:57because then she would have picked up her towel
00:04:00so yeah, that was the last time that I saw her.
00:04:06Police continue to hold grave fears
00:04:29for 16-year-old Alice Palmer
00:04:31who disappeared while picnicking with her family.
00:04:33Police search and rescue divers.
00:04:35Oh, well, we were told to go home
00:04:37and if the search and rescue divers found anything
00:04:43then they'd let us know immediately.
00:04:57It felt very strange in the car on the way home
00:05:00because there was one empty seat.
00:05:01One minute she was there
00:05:04and then gone.
00:05:10I went back to stay with the Palmers that night.
00:05:13We were just mostly waiting
00:05:15mostly waiting for news
00:05:17for bad news
00:05:21and there was that expectation.
00:05:24We got a call from Russell
00:05:25on his mobile about nine o'clock at night
00:05:28and he'd said there'd been an accident at the Weir
00:05:33and Alice had gone missing.
00:05:36So we thought, well, we better go to our rat.
00:05:40I remember June was a bit funny about seeing Iris
00:05:46so there was a strange feeling between them.
00:05:49It felt a little strange having my mother there
00:05:53and mum and I there for Alice.
00:05:57It just didn't feel like the right order of things.
00:06:04It was an awful, awful night.
00:06:07Worst night of our lives.
00:06:09I went into Alice's room later that night
00:06:16and her phone went off a couple of times
00:06:21but I didn't answer it.
00:06:29I remember the bed was made.
00:06:31I remember thinking how neat everything looked.
00:06:51I got a call from Alice's mum, June.
00:06:54She'd said that Alice was missing
00:06:58and presumed like she drowned
00:07:00and like I didn't not believe her
00:07:04but I don't know, I just,
00:07:07it was kind of hard to take
00:07:08so I actually called Alice's mobile.
00:07:12I just, um,
00:07:16maybe wanted to see if,
00:07:17hope it was a joke or something.
00:07:20It was a real shock.
00:07:25Just didn't really feel like it was real.
00:07:28Um, everything was the same as always
00:07:32but people were saying Alice had drowned.
00:07:35Are there any memories from that night
00:07:37that stand out for you?
00:07:41I remember we had the porch light on.
00:07:45Still two actually, just in case.
00:07:48And why's that?
00:07:49Just in case she comes home, I guess.
00:08:00I don't know.
00:08:10I'm just in case.
00:08:24¡Gracias!
00:08:54It was all very official and formal and they asked me to sign a statement of identification.
00:09:01June stayed in the car.
00:09:04And on reflection I think that was a mistake because she didn't have any closure.
00:09:10I just couldn't bring myself to identify Alice's body.
00:09:17She'd been underwater all that time and I guess it's not how I...
00:09:25I didn't want to remember her in that way.
00:09:29I thought that was my responsibility as Alice's dad.
00:09:34You know, that's what our father does.
00:09:47The car stalled on the way back from the dam.
00:10:02But the only gear that I could get it into was reverse.
00:10:05So we drove back into town in reverse.
00:10:09Which was either that or walk and given everything that had happened,
00:10:14So you're not the better option really.
00:10:28The autopsy was performed on the Monday the 27th.
00:10:34Then the coroner released the body on the Tuesday the 28th.
00:10:42It was very strange spending Christmas day with the family up there.
00:10:48While Alice lay alone in the morgue.
00:11:01I don't know, it was just like I hadn't seen her for a week or anything.
00:11:04Like...
00:11:06Yeah, it didn't feel real.
00:11:10Death takes everything eventually.
00:11:14It's the meanest dumbest machine there is and it just keeps coming and it doesn't care.
00:11:20There's nothing else to know about it really.
00:11:24It was a sombre day for the family and friends of Alice Palmer who gathered to pay their final respects to a young woman taken too soon.
00:11:36She was a great person.
00:11:38Very popular.
00:11:40Clever, lovely.
00:11:42Yeah.
00:11:44Alice is remembered as a happy, fun-loving girl with a zest for life.
00:11:48Described as always putting others...
00:11:50Palmer's really doing it tough at that time.
00:11:54I don't want to think of how bad it was back then.
00:11:58It's hard to imagine how much worse they would get.
00:12:02Ten days after Ellie's funeral, so that makes it the 15th of January, stuff started happening around the house.
00:12:20Noises in the roof and sounds coming from outside the window and other movements that seem to come from Ali's old room.
00:12:34So we re-hung the door to Ali's room and we got a pest controller to come in and check for termites.
00:12:44And it didn't help at all.
00:12:46The door kept slamming and we still kept getting the noises from her room.
00:12:53There was just something weird about that house.
00:12:56You know, it had a fairly strange feeling about it.
00:12:58I mean, I can't explain to you what it was exactly.
00:13:02But you'd go in there and just have this bad feeling like in your gut.
00:13:17I started having these nightmares.
00:13:20And they were so distressing that sometimes I just wouldn't want to open my eyes.
00:13:29I'd woken up, but I didn't want to open my eyes.
00:13:34There was one particular one.
00:13:35It was quite vivid and recurring.
00:13:39Alice would come down the hall, still dripping from the dam,
00:13:43and just stand at the foot of our bed, just staring at us.
00:13:49It was quite terrifying.
00:13:52As I said, I didn't want to open my eyes.
00:13:58By early February, my nightmares were getting so bad
00:14:02that I began to go for walks at night,
00:14:05sometimes for hours at a time,
00:14:07just so that I didn't have to go to bed at night
00:14:10and close my eyes and go to sleep.
00:14:12Sometimes I would actually go into people's houses.
00:14:15I didn't feel like I was doing anything wrong.
00:14:17I guess I really just wanted to be inside someone else's life for a while.
00:14:29Georgie, do you remember how Russell was doing at the time?
00:14:43Yeah, Russell was, he was working a lot at that point.
00:14:48I think that might have helped him with his grief.
00:14:52End it through without any explanation.
00:14:54Russell and I met actually on the Gippsland catchment project in 98
00:14:59and worked together on that.
00:15:01So you guys have known each other for a few years?
00:15:03Yeah, good for years, yeah.
00:15:08Do you remember how he was affected after Alice's death?
00:15:10What changed?
00:15:12It was work as normal and that was troubling actually.
00:15:17I didn't really know what to say to him about that.
00:15:20You never spoke about it?
00:15:22Not really.
00:15:24Everyone grieves in their own way
00:15:26and it wasn't really my place to be telling him how to feel.
00:15:31But I certainly was concerned.
00:15:37I was really grateful that I had my work.
00:15:40And I mean, I felt really guilty about that at the time.
00:15:43But, you know, I just wanted to get on with it.
00:15:51Then one night in late February,
00:15:54I came home from work and I was sitting in the kitchen
00:15:58and I heard a noise coming from Ali's room.
00:16:03So I went into Ali's room and I don't really know why
00:16:08but I sort of found myself sitting down in the chair in front of the dresser
00:16:13and before I could kind of work out what I was doing there, Ali walked in.
00:16:19And she went over to her desk and started sharpening a pencil
00:16:23and then she looked like she was checking for a text message on her phone.
00:16:31And, you know, I was completely freaked out.
00:16:35She was completely oblivious to my presence.
00:16:38And then I don't know what happened.
00:16:41I must have moved the bed or, you know, squeaked my shoes or something
00:16:46but she went completely rigid.
00:16:49And I knew then that she knew I was there.
00:16:54And she slowly turned around and she looked me right in the eye,
00:16:59foo foo, you know, what felt like forever.
00:17:03And then she just came at me and stood up and said,
00:17:08get out, get out.
00:17:09And I just, you know, cut up and went out as fast as I could.
00:17:14I could hear Russell crying and he was here in the kitchen.
00:17:18Matthew and I both found him in here and he was sobbing.
00:17:23He was absolutely inconsolable.
00:17:26Do you believe Russell when he says he saw a ghost?
00:17:29Yeah, I do.
00:17:30I believe he saw what he saw and he wouldn't.
00:17:35He's not the kind of man to make something up.
00:17:38So I believe he saw something.
00:17:42Whether it's a real ghost or not, I don't really know.
00:17:45But I'm sure he saw something.
00:18:06I remember trying to talk to members of the church
00:18:10about how to help June and how to help the Palmers.
00:18:15But there just didn't seem like there was anything we could do.
00:18:20I think part of the reason was because they weren't church goers.
00:18:25I didn't know how to offer them comfort.
00:18:30I don't even know what June believes in.
00:18:32I found myself mostly concerned about Matthew.
00:18:37I guess because those two were always so close.
00:18:42I was worried how he would cope.
00:18:44I remember he was spending a lot more time alone.
00:18:56Oh, we were all worried about him.
00:19:04Matthew came in with some unusual bruises on his body.
00:19:07They were unusual in terms of their distribution and depth.
00:19:12We obviously took a history trying to exclude trauma,
00:19:17but there was certainly no history of trauma that he was able to give us.
00:19:21We tested him for vasculitis and we also excluded any poisoning
00:19:26or toxins in his system.
00:19:28We were unable to turn up anything conclusive.
00:19:30And several weeks after this, the bruises just resolved spontaneously.
00:19:37And we were never able to really establish a cause for them.
00:19:43My name is Steve Wilkie.
00:19:46I'm Matthew's best friend.
00:19:48I usually stay at Matthew's house two or three times a week.
00:19:54We started a band together.
00:19:56So we normally play music at my house.
00:20:00Matthew seemed a bit quieter, but he was always pretty quiet.
00:20:06So I guess there wasn't really any warning bells going off or anything.
00:20:10Although I had heard about June going into people's houses
00:20:15and Matthew never really seemed to want to talk about any of that.
00:20:18I never asked him about any of it.
00:20:19I know that he was always interested in photography.
00:20:20And he was, at this time, he was starting to pursue it with more passion.
00:20:38Matthew came to me, he was very keen to find out anything about photography.
00:20:42So I was more than willing to help out.
00:20:46You know, that's what I do.
00:20:47So I was picking my brains about just about anything to do with it.
00:20:51From equipment down to techniques, down to lighting, down to, you know.
00:20:55He was a great asset.
00:20:56So I mean, eventually I employed him.
00:21:12I think he talked to me about the photographs of the backyard that you've been taking.
00:21:31I, yeah, basically I've taken that same photo.
00:21:35Um, with that composition for, I think, every three months for the past four years.
00:21:40Um, and it's just a photograph of the backyard looking out and you can see the hills in the distance.
00:21:46It's just like a little project that I set up for myself when we got here.
00:21:51And what was in the April 28, um, photograph that was different?
00:21:55Well, um, it's basically the same shot, but it would appear that Alice is standing against the fence.
00:22:16Do you remember what the reaction in the house was at the time?
00:22:19I wouldn't say the mood was good, but, uh, it was better than before.
00:22:25It was like, um, like it gave us sort of something to focus on, I think.
00:22:31All of us.
00:22:32Hey, Dave.
00:22:35Hey, Dave.
00:22:36Well, the photographs were taken on the 3rd of April and they were developed on the 4th.
00:22:41And I looked at them, I think, on the 5th.
00:22:44And, uh, looked at the dams and the water levels and I was quite happy.
00:22:49But it was only the following night that it was pointed out to me by my wife
00:22:53that there was something in the background in Norval Dam, this image came up.
00:22:57Well, when I first looked at the photograph, I didn't know what to make of it.
00:23:15The image was quite unsettling because it certainly looked like Alice.
00:23:21It was an incredibly discomforting image.
00:23:31And I became convinced that Alice was still alive.
00:23:34I didn't have any rational explanation for who was in those photos.
00:23:47But I did know something about Alice that June didn't.
00:23:51I'd seen Alice's body.
00:23:54I didn't think she was alive.
00:23:57I knew she wasn't.
00:24:00I became convinced that Russell had made a mistake.
00:24:05He himself said that it didn't look like anybody anymore.
00:24:09June was so convinced that I'd made a mistake that I actually started to have doubts myself.
00:24:15I started to think maybe...
00:24:18I'd made my mind up that it was Alice's body before, you know, I'd looked.
00:24:25And that the circumstances were so compelling for me that I decided that it was her.
00:24:35More than three months after the funeral of Ararat teenager Alice Palmer,
00:24:40her grieving parents formally requested her body be exhumed from the General Cemetery.
00:24:45There has been some contention from the Palmer family about the accuracy of the original body identification.
00:24:51June and Russell Palmer were adamant that DNA testing be carried out.
00:24:56They just couldn't be sure that the body they identified was indeed Alice.
00:25:00And today almost...
00:25:01Alice's body was exhumed in the presence of the funeral director, Dr Slatter,
00:25:05and there was a representative from the coroner's of the suicide.
00:25:09And it was then transported to Ararat Base Hospital where they took their DNA samples.
00:25:14And she stayed there until the results came back.
00:25:21A few days later we received a copy of the coroner's preliminary report.
00:25:27And Alice's identity was confirmed by the DNA sample match.
00:25:36It was only after they'd confirmed that it was Alice's body that I realised how much that I'd invested in the possibility of it not being her.
00:25:45You know, I can't tell you how much I wanted there to have been a terrible mistake, even if it had been mine.
00:25:55I really, really wanted there to have been somebody else's kid in that dam, a runaway, a murder victim,
00:26:02just anybody else's, just as long as it wasn't my kid, just as long as it wasn't Alice.
00:26:08Yes, it is.
00:26:28Yes, it is.
00:26:29Yeah.
00:26:30Yes, it is.
00:26:31Yes, it is.
00:26:33Yes, it is.
00:26:34Yes, it is.
00:26:36Yes, it is.
00:26:37Yes, it is.
00:26:39Yes, it is.
00:26:41Yes, yes, yes.
00:26:43Yes, yes, yes.
00:26:44Yes, yes.
00:26:51Alice was reburied two days later on the 7th of June.
00:26:58Pero la pregunta permaneció, ¿quién o qué fue en los fotos?
00:27:03No, no, no, no, no, no, no.
00:27:33No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
00:28:03The first night, uh, I looked back and there was footage of a figure moving from the lounge
00:28:17room across the hallway to the front door.
00:28:20You're on Voice FM, two minutes past eight.
00:28:35I'm Helen Bath and we're taking calls with site consultant Ray Koneone.
00:28:39Next, we have Nadia on the line, Ray.
00:28:42Hi, Nadia, how are you?
00:28:43What can I do for you?
00:28:45My question is about career and I've also got a question about family.
00:28:49It was around about that time I decided to seek out the advice of Ray Kamene.
00:28:54I had heard Ray on the radio over the years and opinion was quite divided.
00:29:00Some thought he was the real deal.
00:29:02Others were unconvinced.
00:29:04Next, we have Annie on the line.
00:29:06Hi, Annie, how are you?
00:29:09Thanks, Ray.
00:29:09Thank you for taking my call.
00:29:11My pleasure.
00:29:12What can I do for you?
00:29:13Um, I just want to do a general reading.
00:29:18General, not just medical.
00:29:20I'm a Hungarian by birth.
00:29:22My parents came out here when I was quite young.
00:29:24I've got a 15-year-old daughter who lives with her mother in South Australia.
00:29:30My Christian name is actually Cholt, but I changed it to Ray.
00:29:34I think it's a more trustworthy name for a psychic.
00:29:39Australia's wog psychic of choice.
00:29:41Most of what I do is, when I'm dealing with the sick or the dying, which I guess probably fits about a third of my clients,
00:29:52is to allow them the possibility that death is not the bitter end, that it's not the full stop,
00:30:01which is a consolation that I'm quite happy to give them, considering the fact that what happens after death is up for grabs anyway.
00:30:08There's somebody, um, very close to you.
00:30:12Someone you haven't seen for a while.
00:30:15Someone who is going to come back into your life.
00:30:18Someone who will be of great comfort to you.
00:30:21Really?
00:30:23Anyone that fits that pill?
00:30:25Um, yeah, I can. I can think of someone.
00:30:27Look, I won't lie to you, Annie.
00:30:29I can see obstacles ahead of you, but I think that this person who's coming back to you is going to make a great difference
00:30:35and will be of great solace to you.
00:30:39Thanks, Ray.
00:30:42See you, Annie.
00:30:42Where I come from, when someone dies, they block out all the mirrors in the house to stop the dead from finding their way back.
00:31:07There's things like that that make a difference.
00:31:14Hi, Annie. I'm Ray.
00:31:20I love you.
00:31:22I love you.
00:31:23There you are.
00:31:25I love you.
00:31:26I love you.
00:31:27I love you.
00:31:28I love you.
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00:33:37¿Ok?
00:33:42Ella siempre dejó sus sneakers dentro de su habitación.
00:33:48Entonces, voy a entrar dentro de su habitación.
00:33:52Open la puerta y move dentro de ella.
00:33:55Y...
00:33:57Seguís bien para ir a Alice.
00:34:01Ok.
00:34:03Open la puerta.
00:34:07I'm going inside her room.
00:34:24You can see something, can't you?
00:34:27Tell me what you see, Jen.
00:34:32She's...
00:34:33Alice is sitting...
00:34:37...in the wicker chair at the end of her bed.
00:34:49She looks sad.
00:34:50I first met Ray when June brought him home for dinner the night of her first consultation.
00:35:02And, you know, I'm completely indifferent to psychics. I don't really have a position on them at all.
00:35:07I don't really want them to come round for dinner, mind you, but you know, I didn't want to upset June either.
00:35:12He was a pleasant sort of a bloke. He wasn't ooky spooky at all. I was on my best behaviour.
00:35:21A few days later, maybe a week later, I suggested to the family that we hold a seance.
00:35:27June was really keen, but I remember Russell just flat out refused. I think Matthew finally talked his dad around.
00:35:36Matthew, how did you feel about having a seance held in your house?
00:35:39At the time I was actually kind of interested, sort of curious. I don't think Dad was thrilled about the idea.
00:35:52But, yeah, I thought it would be interesting and I suggested we film it.
00:35:59And I recorded it just with our video camera, which is the PC9.
00:36:08I'm getting a strong presence in the room.
00:36:12In the house.
00:36:16I think we all thought that the seance was a failure.
00:36:20Um, Ray didn't really come up with anything, kind of with any signs or anything.
00:36:25So, um, after about an hour or so, we called it quits.
00:36:29And, um, it wasn't until the next day that, um, uh, Matthew was reviewing the, um, the footage that, uh, there was an image of Alice.
00:36:39Make your presence known to us.
00:36:41Uh, the new footage was, um, completely different to the hallway footage.
00:36:54For, for one, it was significantly more detailed, so it was less ambiguous.
00:37:13And, uh, it was impossible to dismiss it as a, you know, a coincidence of shadow play and digital noise.
00:37:22There was something inexplicable in our house that was beyond doubt.
00:37:34I was concerned.
00:37:37This was pretty unfamiliar territory for me.
00:37:41I've never seen a ghost before.
00:37:52Ray got, uh, Matthew to help him set up three permanent cameras inside the house recording in time-lapse configurations 24 hours a day.
00:38:10There'd been a lot of speculation about Ray and, um, what he was doing there.
00:38:17And, um, when, when people don't know, there, of course, leads to a lot of talk and a lot of speculation.
00:38:24I had heard rumours throughout July of video images purporting to be of an apparition in the house.
00:38:31Uh, but I must say I was, um, sceptical as to their legitimacy.
00:38:36And your view on Ray?
00:38:38Also very sceptical.
00:38:40I think they had me as some kind of Rasputin figure mesmerising the Palmers, stealing their money, doctoring the photos of Alice.
00:38:49Happy birthday to you.
00:38:52Matthew in particular seemed to be really struggling.
00:38:56Happy birthday to you, Matthew.
00:39:00Happy birthday to you.
00:39:01I thought I might be able to help just by, um, by being there, you know.
00:39:06Oh, 31. Beautiful.
00:39:09That said, my chief motivation was professional.
00:39:12Something was happening inside that house and I wanted to find out what it was.
00:39:15And you understood what it was.
00:39:16Gracias por ver el video
00:39:46Gracias por ver el video
00:40:16We were completely gobsmacked by them
00:40:18But before we had time to
00:40:22Take in what they meant
00:40:23The Withers video came out
00:40:25Is it good?
00:40:28Yeah, it's great
00:40:29Can I have a look?
00:40:31Yeah, be careful
00:40:32Kathy and Doug Withers were at the dam
00:40:35On April 3rd
00:40:36The same day that the bobsmeet photo was taken
00:40:39Be careful
00:40:40Be careful
00:40:45It was a couple of months later
00:40:53At the end of July
00:40:55When we were
00:40:57Looking at our footage
00:41:00That we shot down
00:41:01And came across
00:41:03Yeah, a figure in the background
00:41:06Which we identified as bobsmeet
00:41:09Which interested us
00:41:11Because there's
00:41:12Yeah, clearly
00:41:14We sort of went
00:41:15Oh, it was the same day he was there
00:41:17When he captured
00:41:18The image that people had been talking about
00:41:20So then we
00:41:21Then we went through
00:41:23All our footage
00:41:24To see if we
00:41:24Perhaps might have captured
00:41:26That figure as well
00:41:27Maybe the camera
00:41:28Had seen what Bob saw
00:41:30Yeah
00:41:30So we did find
00:41:32A figure in the background
00:41:33Like the image that had been described
00:41:36In his picture
00:41:38And then we looked more closely
00:41:40And yeah, Doug zoomed in
00:41:43Yeah, well I got right in
00:41:44On the computer
00:41:46And from what, you know
00:41:48Could have looked like a female figure
00:41:50From a long way away
00:41:52Up close and tight
00:41:55You could see that it definitely
00:41:57Was neither female nor Alice
00:41:59It was Matthew
00:42:01Do you guys believe in ghosts?
00:42:07No
00:42:07No
00:42:07No
00:42:09Well this is where I was
00:42:12When the bobsmeet photo was taken
00:42:14And I was wearing Alice's jacket
00:42:16And I looked up
00:42:19And I saw a man on the hill
00:42:20Who turned out to be bobsmeet
00:42:22And um
00:42:23He didn't want to be
00:42:25You know
00:42:25Photo
00:42:26So I walked off
00:42:29Through the bush
00:42:30What I didn't see
00:42:31Was there was also
00:42:32A couple over there
00:42:34Filming
00:42:35Who turned out to be the Withers
00:42:36When the Withers thing
00:42:42Came out
00:42:43Dad came to me
00:42:44And asked me
00:42:46If I'd been involved
00:42:47In anything else
00:42:48And I didn't want to lie to him
00:42:49So
00:42:50I told him
00:42:51I explained to dad
00:43:01That I was responsible
00:43:02For the image of Alice
00:43:03In the hallway
00:43:04And the bedroom
00:43:05And that I
00:43:07Created the April 28th
00:43:09Backyard photo
00:43:10And the seance image
00:43:11I just told him
00:43:13What I'd done
00:43:14Okay so
00:43:15I've got two photos
00:43:17A photo of Alice
00:43:18And the backyard
00:43:19And um
00:43:20Composited the images
00:43:22That's a photo
00:43:24That I took of Alice
00:43:25Mum kept
00:43:26Talking about
00:43:27She was always talking about
00:43:28Getting Alice resumed
00:43:29And she was really
00:43:30She was really keen on this idea
00:43:32That dad had misidentified her body
00:43:34And so I knew that
00:43:36Without more evidence
00:43:37It wasn't going to happen
00:43:37So I
00:43:38I made the photograph
00:43:40I just used
00:43:45An old video of Alice
00:43:47And I played that
00:43:50On the TV
00:43:52I had the TV up
00:43:53On the bookcase
00:43:54And it was as simple as
00:43:56Rotating the mirror
00:43:57So that
00:43:58The reflection of the TV
00:44:00Came up in it
00:44:00And obviously
00:44:02The mirror is quite small
00:44:03So it cropped out
00:44:04The edges of the television
00:44:05And then
00:44:06Yeah I just filmed that
00:44:07Same with the kitchen
00:44:09And the bedroom
00:44:10What you see basically
00:44:11Is Alice
00:44:12On the television
00:44:13In the mirror
00:44:14Like it wasn't about
00:44:25Trying to trick people
00:44:27I guess it was like
00:44:29Something was better than nothing
00:44:31Do you think that
00:44:33What you did ultimately
00:44:34Made it worse for June?
00:44:35Um
00:44:40I think that
00:44:44Yeah
00:44:46Yeah I probably
00:44:48I probably did make it
00:44:49Harder for her
00:44:50But um
00:44:51That wasn't
00:44:52That wasn't my intention
00:44:53I'm not quite so sure
00:45:00About his reasons
00:45:01I don't know
00:45:03That I
00:45:03Totally
00:45:06Um
00:45:07I don't want to say
00:45:12I don't totally believe
00:45:14What he said
00:45:14But um
00:45:16I'm just not convinced
00:45:18That he really knows
00:45:20Why he did it
00:45:21When it all came out
00:45:28People wanted to do
00:45:30Stories and books
00:45:31And women's magazines
00:45:32A whole lot
00:45:33Just went
00:45:34Pear shaped
00:45:35Oh look
00:45:38We just didn't know
00:45:38How to handle it
00:45:39I mean
00:45:40You know
00:45:40We had to protect
00:45:42Maddie
00:45:43We had to protect
00:45:43Ourselves
00:45:44We had to
00:45:45Protect
00:45:46Ali's memory
00:45:47And we just
00:45:48Didn't have any
00:45:49Experience of
00:45:50You know
00:45:50Dealing with
00:45:51All this interest
00:45:52In something
00:45:52That was incredibly
00:45:53Personal
00:45:53That people
00:45:54Want to make
00:45:55Incredibly public
00:45:56I mean
00:45:58The Palmers
00:45:58Weren't
00:45:59Coping well
00:46:00At all
00:46:00At that point
00:46:01The things
00:46:02Were very bad
00:46:02They were
00:46:03They were
00:46:03Doing it tough
00:46:05This was like
00:46:08The end of hope
00:46:08For all of us
00:46:10But especially
00:46:11For June
00:46:12She just really
00:46:15Wasn't ready
00:46:16To let Ali go
00:46:17She just needed
00:46:21To hang on
00:46:22To her
00:46:22A little bit
00:46:23Longer
00:46:23And I don't
00:46:27Think she would
00:46:27Admit it
00:46:28But
00:46:28She was
00:46:30Devastated
00:46:31She's an interesting
00:46:43Girl
00:46:43She seemed to
00:46:45Not get on
00:46:46With June
00:46:47So well
00:46:47I thought
00:46:48They actually
00:46:49Were quite alike
00:46:50It was interesting
00:46:50That the two of them
00:46:51Might not get on
00:46:52So well
00:46:52They always seemed
00:46:57Very much alike
00:46:58And you could see
00:46:59That Alice took
00:47:00Took a lot
00:47:01After June
00:47:02But
00:47:03Also other things
00:47:05Had become clear
00:47:07As well
00:47:07After Alice's death
00:47:09That perhaps
00:47:10A bit of a sense
00:47:11Of the private
00:47:12That they both shared
00:47:15June was
00:47:19Or still is
00:47:20She keeps to herself
00:47:23A lot
00:47:23And it became clear
00:47:26That that was
00:47:27Happening with Alice
00:47:28Too
00:47:28Yeah the sense
00:47:30Of privacy
00:47:31The sense of
00:47:32That there is
00:47:32Their own private
00:47:33Life
00:47:34That they will
00:47:35Either choose
00:47:37To share
00:47:38Or to not share
00:47:38I guess
00:47:39It's wonderful
00:47:45When your children
00:47:46Come
00:47:46And that
00:47:47New expression
00:47:48That you have
00:47:49But
00:47:50As a mother
00:47:52You still always
00:47:52Got doubts
00:47:53That
00:47:54You're not doing
00:47:56Enough
00:47:56Or you're not
00:47:57Doing the right
00:47:57Thing
00:47:58Partly blame
00:48:01Myself
00:48:02That's come
00:48:03From me
00:48:04Maybe
00:48:05It came
00:48:06From my mother
00:48:07I've never
00:48:10Been able
00:48:10To
00:48:11I've never
00:48:15Been able
00:48:15To give
00:48:15Myself
00:48:16A holy
00:48:16To
00:48:18To June
00:48:20I feel
00:48:23June
00:48:23Is a little
00:48:24Like that
00:48:25Too
00:48:25That she
00:48:27Couldn't
00:48:27Give herself
00:48:28Wholly
00:48:28To
00:48:29Alice
00:48:29I hope
00:48:38That Alice
00:48:39Did know
00:48:39How much
00:48:40I loved
00:48:40Her
00:48:40I guess
00:48:42I held
00:48:43Something back
00:48:44A little
00:48:44As she
00:48:44Grew
00:48:44Older
00:48:45That would be
00:48:48The saddest thing
00:48:49To think
00:48:50She might not know
00:48:51Ray suggested
00:49:01Ray suggested
00:49:02That Matthew
00:49:04Accompany him
00:49:05On one of his
00:49:06Country Victorian
00:49:08Tours
00:49:08Where he was doing
00:49:09Consultations
00:49:10And Matthew
00:49:13Jumped at the chance
00:49:14And Matthew jumped at the chance
00:49:14It's breakfast
00:49:16It's your shout I think
00:49:18No I think it's your shout
00:49:19I think I realised when I was away how much I missed Dallas
00:49:41And
00:49:42That I was never going to be able to speak to her again
00:49:45I guess that's something that all of Ray's clients are coming to terms with
00:49:51You know they want to talk to someone or make contact with someone they'd lost
00:49:56And
00:49:57So did I
00:49:59So I was sort of
00:50:02One of Ray's clients
00:50:04In a way as well
00:50:05No
00:50:11Can I chuck it at you?
00:50:12No
00:50:12Just see what happens
00:50:13Well what do you think is going to happen?
00:50:15It's going to hit me
00:50:16And then I'm going to get angry
00:50:17That's what's going to happen
00:50:18No
00:50:18Watch yourself
00:50:21You're doing my room
00:50:23Alright
00:50:25Get out
00:50:42When me and Ray went
00:50:52On the tour
00:50:53We left the two rented cameras
00:50:55Where they were in the hallway
00:50:56I was sure
00:50:58There was still something in the house
00:51:00And obviously because we were away for the three days
00:51:04We um
00:51:05You know
00:51:06We couldn't change the tapes or anything
00:51:07So um
00:51:08When you were probably going to get about
00:51:10Like a day and a half of footage
00:51:12But we left them running
00:51:13And um
00:51:15Got back on
00:51:17August 22nd
00:51:18At which point
00:51:19And we
00:51:20Check the tapes
00:51:21Only Russell and I were in the house
00:51:49When these images were recorded
00:51:51Matthew couldn't have had anything to do with them
00:51:53They seemed to prove
00:51:57That there was a ghost
00:51:59In the house
00:52:00Alice's ghost
00:52:02Do you believe in ghosts?
00:52:12I didn't used to
00:52:15But um
00:52:17It's a hard thing to prove or disprove
00:52:22I think
00:52:27Yeah
00:52:30Sometimes I think
00:52:31Maybe they do exist
00:52:32There are ghosts
00:52:35Everywhere
00:52:36It's a scary world
00:52:38I don't know why it's important
00:52:41Like how it helps people
00:52:43Like dealing with
00:52:44Her loss
00:52:45Like making up stories
00:52:46About ghosts
00:52:47Or whatever
00:52:47It threw a question mark
00:52:54Over everything
00:52:55I went back
00:52:56And reviewed all the footage
00:52:58That it can be for
00:52:59All the material
00:53:00Taken inside the house
00:53:02Following Alice's death
00:53:03It was while I was looking
00:53:11At Matthew's June 13 hallway material again
00:53:14That I noticed something in the image
00:53:17There was a second figure
00:53:19Not Matthew in the hallway
00:53:21But someone else
00:53:22Squatting in the dark
00:53:24In Alice's room
00:53:25At first I thought it was Alice
00:53:28Then I realised
00:53:31It was our neighbour
00:53:33Brett Toohey
00:53:34What was this man doing
00:53:44In my house
00:53:45In my daughter's room
00:53:47More than six months
00:53:48After her death
00:53:49When I found Alice
00:53:58Is safe
00:53:58I realised exactly
00:54:00Why he'd been there
00:54:01He was looking for the tape
00:54:06That's it
00:54:28Alice began babysitting
00:54:50For the Toohey's
00:54:51In 2002
00:54:52And she continued
00:54:53For the next two and a half years
00:54:55The Toohey's
00:54:57Two boys
00:54:57Were five and nine years old
00:54:59I
00:55:02Literally just couldn't believe
00:55:05My eyes
00:55:07It just made me feel so sad
00:55:13As far as I'm concerned
00:55:21The Toohey's
00:55:22Were complicit in Alice's death
00:55:23I believe
00:55:24If it hadn't been for them
00:55:26She would have reached out to us
00:55:27She wouldn't have felt guilty
00:55:29She wouldn't have felt the burden
00:55:31Of that secret
00:55:32She wouldn't have been isolated
00:55:35How do you feel towards Brett now?
00:55:43If he was round the corner
00:55:44I'd probably throttle him
00:55:45He seemed like a nice guy
00:55:49You know
00:55:49Like
00:55:50He was nice
00:55:51He was weak
00:55:53And
00:55:53He was never like
00:55:55You know
00:55:55Nasty or anything
00:55:57He had like a pool
00:55:59At his place
00:56:00And usually
00:56:01We used to swim there
00:56:02In the summer
00:56:03So usually
00:56:03We'd just go to his place
00:56:05And have a swim there
00:56:06I was really bewildered
00:56:09About
00:56:09You know
00:56:09What happened
00:56:10So
00:56:10It took a lot
00:56:12Just to
00:56:12Realise
00:56:14Because
00:56:14You know
00:56:14I had no idea
00:56:15That Alice would
00:56:16No
00:56:17Be with somebody
00:56:18I know
00:56:18It was like
00:56:19A complete surprise
00:56:20It was like
00:56:20We just didn't think
00:56:22You know
00:56:22She'd do something like that
00:56:24Yeah
00:56:25Why do you think
00:56:29Alice had the tape?
00:56:31No
00:56:31Because she didn't want them to have it
00:56:34Why is that?
00:56:37Didn't trust them anymore
00:56:38I think
00:56:38They must have been really
00:56:42Desperate
00:56:43To get that tape
00:56:44From the moment
00:56:45That they'd heard
00:56:47Of Alice's death
00:56:48They would have been
00:56:49Living in this
00:56:50Constant fear
00:56:51Of being found out
00:56:52I'm glad he couldn't find it
00:56:57I'm glad he knows
00:56:59It's not over
00:57:00I had a lot of
00:57:05Personal dealings
00:57:06With the Palmers
00:57:06During this time
00:57:07As part of the
00:57:08Investigating team
00:57:09Trying to locate
00:57:10Brett and Marissa
00:57:11Toohey
00:57:11And family
00:57:12And initially
00:57:14We were optimistic
00:57:15That they would be found
00:57:17And charges laid
00:57:19But unfortunately
00:57:21The leads that we were
00:57:22Working with
00:57:23Soon dried up
00:57:24And so the investigation
00:57:26Stalled
00:57:27So police advice to us
00:57:29Was that even if
00:57:30The Toohey's were caught
00:57:31They would get off
00:57:32With a suspended sentence
00:57:33By claiming that
00:57:34The sex was consensual
00:57:36Which was a claim
00:57:38Supported by the video
00:57:40Evidence
00:57:40Jason did you know
00:57:41About Alice's involvement
00:57:43With Brett
00:57:43Um no
00:57:45No one did
00:57:47I
00:57:49Obviously I didn't
00:57:51I
00:57:51We wouldn't be going out
00:57:53If I did
00:57:54It was
00:57:54Nah
00:57:55I
00:57:56Thought we were
00:57:57Um
00:57:58I thought we were
00:57:59Pretty good
00:58:00It just left so many
00:58:13Unanswered questions
00:58:14Um
00:58:15Why was she involved
00:58:16With them
00:58:17When did the
00:58:18Relationship begin
00:58:19Was she in love
00:58:21With Arthur
00:58:22I just don't know
00:58:26The Toohey sold their house
00:58:32And moved six months
00:58:33After Alice died
00:58:34Alice kept secrets
00:58:46She
00:58:48Kept the fact
00:58:50She kept secrets
00:58:50A secret
00:58:51Which does change
00:58:54The way that you
00:58:55See somebody
00:58:55I suppose
00:58:56When you realise
00:58:56That they did
00:58:57Hide things from you
00:58:59A bit
00:58:59I think
00:59:01I knew
00:59:02One
00:59:03Alice
00:59:04And maybe
00:59:05Her mum
00:59:05Knew another
00:59:06And there was
00:59:06Another one
00:59:07Again
00:59:07That none
00:59:07Of us
00:59:08Knew
00:59:08Maybe
00:59:09I found
00:59:24Ray's business
00:59:25Card
00:59:26Tape to
00:59:26Alice's diary
00:59:27On the page
00:59:28Mark 12th of
00:59:29July
00:59:292005
00:59:30Why'd you come
00:59:37To see me
00:59:37Alice
00:59:37Can you
00:59:39Interpret dreams
00:59:40Sometimes
00:59:42How do you feel
00:59:44When you wake up
00:59:45From these dreams
00:59:45Um
00:59:47They scare me
00:59:52A bit
00:59:52Alice came to see me
00:59:53About five months
00:59:55Before she died
00:59:56I think she'd heard me
00:59:57On the radio
00:59:58A few times
00:59:58And rang
00:59:59And made an appointment
01:00:00Take a deep breath
01:00:02Close your eyes
01:00:02I wish you would imagine
01:00:04You were standing
01:00:05Outside your house
01:00:06When you
01:00:06Can see that
01:00:08You'd tell me
01:00:08I want you to go
01:00:21Inside
01:00:22The front door
01:00:23Go into the house
01:00:25Tell me what you see
01:00:27Where you are
01:00:27Ray
01:00:28Why did you tell
01:00:29Jean
01:00:29That you'd actually
01:00:30Have you met Alice
01:00:30Before
01:00:31I'm in the
01:00:32In the entrance
01:00:33Look I don't think
01:00:34It was a case
01:00:34Of hiding something
01:00:35From them
01:00:36It was
01:00:36More that I was
01:00:37Honouring Alice's
01:00:38Request for confidentiality
01:00:40But it was
01:00:41Damned if you do
01:00:42Damned if you don't
01:00:43You know
01:00:43The living room's just
01:00:45Directly ahead
01:00:47Then you go to your right
01:00:49And my room's
01:00:52In the back part
01:00:52Of the house
01:00:53As you go
01:00:53Towards the kitchen
01:00:54Do you see
01:00:57I think
01:00:57Unusual
01:00:58I think different
01:00:59No
01:01:03No we didn't feel
01:01:05Like we could
01:01:06Trust Ray anymore
01:01:07For whatever
01:01:08Reasons he had
01:01:09Keeping that
01:01:10Information to himself
01:01:11It still felt
01:01:12Like a betrayal
01:01:14I wanted to help
01:01:21June and the family
01:01:21And I think
01:01:22They wanted me
01:01:23To help them
01:01:23I wouldn't have
01:01:25Been able to do it
01:01:26If they'd known
01:01:26There was a fair bit
01:01:30Of resentment
01:01:30Matthew wouldn't
01:01:31Even speak to me
01:01:32But what I think
01:01:34Really hurt them
01:01:35More than anything
01:01:35Was what they saw
01:01:36As my failure
01:01:38To see Alice's
01:01:40Imminent passing
01:01:41Looking back
01:01:42Like it's kind of
01:01:44Strange
01:01:44That someone would
01:01:46You know
01:01:47Be as close to us
01:01:49As he was
01:01:50I think maybe
01:01:53He needed us
01:01:54As much as
01:01:54We needed him
01:01:55Alice came to see me
01:02:09Because she was upset
01:02:11She was
01:02:13A very troubled person
01:02:15I had a dream
01:02:18Last night
01:02:19I was cold
01:02:20And wet
01:02:21I felt heavy
01:02:22Like I'd been drunk
01:02:23And when I woke up
01:02:26These sensations
01:02:27Didn't go
01:02:27I was feeling sick
01:02:30And confused
01:02:31And I was
01:02:33Starting to get scared
01:02:34I needed to see mum
01:02:37To talk to her
01:02:38I stumbled to her room
01:02:41And as I stood there
01:02:42At the bed
01:02:43Watching them
01:02:44I was overcome
01:02:45By this intense sadness
01:02:47Then the sadness
01:02:50Turned to fear
01:02:50I just stood there
01:02:52Paralysed with fear
01:02:53And I realised
01:02:55There was nothing
01:02:56That they could do
01:02:57For me anymore
01:02:57I've never felt
01:02:59So utterly alone
01:03:00Everything felt wrong
01:03:03My body
01:03:04The way things looked
01:03:08Then I realised
01:03:10That there was
01:03:10Something wrong
01:03:11With me
01:03:12I started to cry
01:03:15Standing there
01:03:16At the foot of the bed
01:03:27Lake Mungo is in southwestern New South Wales
01:03:41Lake Mungo is in southwestern New South Wales
01:03:53And that was the location of the school camp
01:03:55That Alice went on
01:03:57From August the 2nd to the 5th in 2005
01:04:00When she came home
01:04:05She said she'd had a good time
01:04:06I do particularly remember it
01:04:09Because she came home
01:04:10Without her mobile phone
01:04:12Which we'd bought her a month previously
01:04:14And her favourite bracelet and watch
01:04:17Yes, other than that
01:04:22She didn't really talk about it too much
01:04:25Kim didn't show me until about a year after she got back from camp
01:04:38The stuff that she'd taken on her mobile phone
01:04:40So why'd you decide to tell June
01:04:42Um, well
01:04:45If we
01:04:46If we didn't tell June
01:04:48Then it would be like
01:04:48We were hiding something
01:04:49So
01:04:50I don't know why
01:04:52I don't know why
01:04:55But
01:04:56Why not
01:04:58Jason told us about
01:05:05The phone footage
01:05:07That the girls had taken
01:05:08At Lake Mungo
01:05:09The other girls were looking so happy
01:05:20And
01:05:20She looked quite
01:05:22Forlorn
01:05:23I was worried
01:05:24I
01:05:25I became convinced that
01:05:27Something had happened to her
01:05:29Kate's phone footage
01:05:38It was taken late that night
01:05:40Once the girls had spread out over the lunettes
01:05:42Anywhere
01:05:44Like
01:05:45Where
01:05:45Like
01:05:47Africa
01:05:49Like the desert
01:05:50There was an image of Alice
01:05:54Very hard to decipher
01:05:55In the bottom of the frame
01:05:56Kneeling under a tree
01:05:57It was only after viewing the clip several times
01:06:02That we realised what she was doing
01:06:04She was burying something
01:06:07I mean did you know
01:06:12What had happened that night with Alice
01:06:14No
01:06:15I knew she'd lost her phone
01:06:17I knew she'd lost her phone
01:06:19I knew she was upset
01:06:22Because that was pretty obvious
01:06:25But I didn't know why she was upset
01:06:27She didn't say that she'd seen anything
01:06:31She didn't really say anything to me
01:06:32I didn't really
01:06:34Perhaps take it that seriously at the time
01:06:37You know
01:06:38It was like
01:06:39Context
01:06:40You know
01:06:40We were just having a good time
01:06:42And I just thought she'd gotten a bit upset
01:06:44It started simply enough
01:06:57Alice left the group
01:07:01And started walking off by herself
01:07:05But it was obviously something was distressing her
01:07:10And we wanted to try and find out what it was
01:07:31We understood from the phone video
01:07:33That she'd buried something
01:07:35We had an idea where that tree was
01:07:37Because of what we could see from the video
01:07:41We didn't really want to go down during the daytime
01:07:46Because you know
01:07:47We didn't want to be digging
01:07:48You know
01:07:50Where tourists were
01:07:51So we decided to go at night
01:08:01Jun and I started digging
01:08:15And after a bit
01:08:18Jun said she'd found something
01:08:21And she pulled out a plastic bag
01:08:23And inside the plastic bag
01:08:25There was
01:08:26Ali's favourite necklace
01:08:29The ring, the watch, the mobile phone
01:08:31Her most precious things
01:08:35Buried out here
01:08:37On a school camp
01:08:39And we didn't know why she did that
01:08:41I mean
01:08:43We knew from the video
01:08:44That she'd buried something
01:08:45But we didn't know what it was
01:08:47There's an old battery
01:08:51There's some爱inc
01:09:07But you know
01:09:08You don't know what it was
01:09:10But you don't know what it was
01:09:12But you go in depuis
01:09:13Judz
01:09:13Yeah, of course I'm scared of dying
01:09:15La verdad es que todo el mundo está mirando.
01:09:18Alguien nos beautifuló el 잊o.
01:09:25¿Quién te gustaría contarme a lo que pasa en los sueños?
01:09:32Creo que algo malo va a pasar.
01:09:37Creo que algo mal ha pasado.
01:09:40No ha reachado, pero es en su lado.
01:09:45Y es que se acercó.
01:09:49Y no me siento preparada.
01:09:51Me siento que no puedo hacer nada.
01:10:08A un momento,
01:10:10este figura
01:10:12en la luz del mundo.
01:10:14En la luz de la luz.
01:10:16La luz de la luz.
01:10:18El cuerpo.
01:10:21El cuerpo.
01:10:24El cuerpo.
01:10:26El cuerpo.
01:10:28El cuerpo.
01:10:30There is absolutely no rational explanation for what she saw on that phone.
01:11:00Stay far away from me.
01:11:30I am convinced that Alice knew she was going to die.
01:11:50I'm convinced of that.
01:11:54I think the figure at Lake Mungo was an omen for her.
01:11:59The burial of her possessions was symbolic.
01:12:04It was a ritual.
01:12:09No, I was never convinced that Alice believed she was going to die.
01:12:13She had morbid thoughts, sure.
01:12:15I mean, who doesn't?
01:12:17And, you know, she had nightmares that upset her and enough to consult Ray.
01:12:23I don't know that anybody's really convinced that they're going to die.
01:12:33And what about the image of Lake Mungo?
01:12:35How do you think Alice would have explained that?
01:12:37How could she have explained it?
01:12:46Look, I think Alice saw a ghost.
01:12:50But she wasn't to know that it was her own.
01:12:54I believe she recorded a ghost.
01:12:56I believe she recorded the future coming to get her.
01:13:00We found out about the Tuwys, Ray, what had happened at Lake Mungo.
01:13:23And by the time we returned home, the house felt different.
01:13:31It was, um, calm.
01:13:35I think that Alice wanted us to know more about her.
01:13:51She wanted us to know who she really was.
01:13:56Before she, you know, before she could leave.
01:14:00In the weeks and months after Lake Mungo,
01:14:10we started to feel like a family again.
01:14:14Um, it just crept up on us, really.
01:14:17We were all a little battered and wobbly,
01:14:21but we were a family all the same.
01:14:23Ray called out of the blue
01:14:37and said he was going to be coming through town
01:14:39and asked if it was all right
01:14:41if he could come round and visit.
01:14:44Six months had gone by,
01:14:46and I just felt that, um,
01:14:50under the circumstances,
01:14:51I don't think it could do any harm.
01:14:57I think we all felt that after Mungo,
01:15:01in our own ways,
01:15:02there'd been closure, I suppose, to a degree.
01:15:05And, you know, for each of it, it's different.
01:15:09For each of it, we've made our own peace.
01:15:11It seems strange to me
01:15:19that Ali should, you know, withdraw so abruptly.
01:15:23And we didn't help her.
01:15:25We didn't change anything.
01:15:28I think we just, uh,
01:15:30collectively made a decision to move forward.
01:15:35You know, moving was really a big part
01:15:40of all that siding to move.
01:16:00It will be difficult to leave the house.
01:16:04Sometimes, you know,
01:16:05I just forget that
01:16:07she's...
01:16:09she's not
01:16:11coming back.
01:16:14I forget.
01:16:35I know.
01:16:47Okay.
01:16:48Close your eyes.
01:16:51And imagine that you're
01:16:52back standing outside the house.
01:16:55Mm-hmm.
01:16:56Can you see it?
01:17:02Go inside the house.
01:17:05I'm going through the front door.
01:17:12And...
01:17:16walking down the hall
01:17:17towards Alice's room.
01:17:25Someone's there.
01:17:27I think someone's coming down the hall.
01:17:30Door's open.
01:17:31Do you know who it is?
01:17:35Shh.
01:17:47Do you want to go inside?
01:17:50Yeah.
01:17:54Okay.
01:17:55What do you see?
01:18:08My mum.
01:18:11What's she saying?
01:18:14Mm-hmm.
01:18:14She's not...
01:18:15She's not saying anything.
01:18:17I don't think she knows I'm there.
01:18:30Alice isn't here.
01:18:33She's not here.
01:18:34What's happening, Alice?
01:18:40Are you talking to her?
01:18:41Is she talking to you?
01:18:42Oh, she's...
01:18:42She's going now.
01:18:46She's leaving the room.
01:18:51She's gone.
01:18:53Open your eyes.
01:18:54You're...
01:18:55Oh.
01:19:11She's...
01:19:12I don't know.
01:19:12She's loaning women...
01:19:12Oh, she's this.
01:19:13Cool!
01:19:17Oh.
01:19:17Oh!
01:19:18No, no, no.
01:19:48She's, she's going now.
01:19:53She's leaving the room.
01:20:03Good boy.
01:20:18She's gone.
01:20:25She's gone.
01:20:27She's gone.
01:20:37Gracias por ver el video.
01:21:07Gracias por ver el video.
01:21:37Gracias por ver el video.
01:22:07Gracias por ver el video.
01:22:37Gracias por ver el video.
01:23:07Gracias por ver el video.
01:23:37Gracias por ver el video.
01:24:07Gracias por ver el video.
01:24:37Gracias.
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