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KillJoy 2024 is a gripping drama that follows Kathryn Joy, a young woman who, at just four years old, returns to live with her father in the very house where he murdered her mother. With little knowledge of the tragic past, Kathryn navigates a life shadowed by an unspoken horror. This film delves into themes of trauma, family secrets, and the psychological impact of a hidden history.  killjoy 2024-film english-movie drama thriller family-secrets psychological-drama killjoy-2024  #KillJoy2024 #FullMovie #DramaFilm #NewRelease

Transcript

00:00:00Transcription by CastingWords

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00:03:05My life was just always in the shadow of this horrible tragedy.

00:03:11Because I was never told anything, I've always wanted to know what happened, how it happened, why it happened.

00:03:27And to keep knowing until somehow I can make it better.

00:03:36I would never want this to happen to anybody.

00:03:39I came to know Carolyn probably about two years before all of this happened.

00:03:54I came to know Carolyn probably about two years before all of this happened.

00:04:08My name is Jill Brody. I met Carolyn when I was in my late 20s.

00:04:15And she was a wonderful teacher, amazing musician, kind. And of course physically she was so beautiful.

00:04:25My name's Vicki Sheaf. I was a good friend of Carolyn Stuckey in our late 20s, early 30s.

00:04:36And now I'm sitting here at 71.

00:04:39Yeah, we got scholarships to go to teachers' college and we developed very strong friendship and we just clicked.

00:04:47She was teaching our children at the time and they had known her all their short lives and were very fond of her.

00:04:56I can remember my son aged five saying, I love Mrs Stuckey, Mum. You know, and he meant it.

00:05:03I think she loved children. I think, you know, you probably don't become a school teacher if you don't love children.

00:05:11She says, I'm going to go, you know, into Miss Lismore.

00:05:14And I thought, oh, good on you, you know.

00:05:17And next thing, she's in the paper and she's won.

00:05:22This one is where she was announced Miss Lismore.

00:05:29And there's Jackie Weaver down there and some guys going in the background.

00:05:38It was a big thing. It was real prestigious to be, you know, Miss Lismore.

00:05:42Oh, yeah, you were special.

00:05:45So, yeah, she would have been easily recognisable, definitely.

00:05:50She was the sort of woman that people would turn around and look at, but she was oblivious to her beauty.

00:05:56She was oblivious to the effects she had on people.

00:06:01I was with Carolyn at the Lismore Workers Club and it was a Wednesday night when she met her husband, Alan Stuckey.

00:06:08I don't know whether he owned the pharmacy, but he was certainly the principal in the pharmacy in Lismore.

00:06:14And he was eight years older, so he was well placed.

00:06:17But we were only 18, you know, we're going, who's this dude, you know?

00:06:22Who's this dude coming over here?

00:06:25She was there for the picking, wasn't she?

00:06:28She's a pretty little thing, big blue eyes, blonde hair.

00:06:32Easily, easily won over, I would say.

00:06:36This one is the two of them and my dad's sister at their wedding.

00:06:48I mean, the first thing I think is those sideburns were quite, quite a statement.

00:06:55Yeah, I mean, look, it's a bit strange to look at wedding photos of them.

00:07:04There's a lot of, like, hope and promise in that moment of a future that would look a lot different than it turned out to look.

00:07:14Her marriage to Alan Stuckey, they just didn't, to me and to a lot of people, didn't seem to mash together.

00:07:33He was into tennis, big way.

00:07:36But yeah, that wasn't her thing at all, no.

00:07:39She was more literary and arty and music and, you know.

00:07:43Different, yeah, they were chalk and cheese, really, when you analyse it like that.

00:07:49The Lismore Theatre Club was a very, kind of, vibrant community.

00:07:58I think it was a place where a lot of people could, kind of, have some fun and have this social connection.

00:08:07Most of our friends at that time belonged to the theatre club.

00:08:11And Carolyn had never previously been in the theatre club, but I think she envied the fun we had.

00:08:18And so she auditioned.

00:08:21Is it cool being a ghost?

00:08:24No, I don't think so.

00:08:26What happens if I punch you?

00:08:28I doubt if you can. Do you want to?

00:08:30Oh, well, Vera.

00:08:31Life Spirit is a play written by Noel Coward.

00:08:35It's about a man who is haunted by the ghost of his dead wife.

00:08:40The ghost is played by my mum, Carolyn.

00:08:42You are here, aren't you? You're not an illusion.

00:08:44I may be an illusion, but I'm most definitely here.

00:08:48And her husband is played by Alan Anu.

00:08:51You must promise me that in future, you'll only come and talk to me when I'm alone.

00:08:56My dear madame, my hearty.

00:08:58I'm afraid I'm wrongly.

00:09:00And also in this play was Alan's wife, Madeline, who is playing a psychic.

00:09:07I may have to go into a psychic wand, but if I do, pay your attention.

00:09:37The last time I was here was when Bly's Spirit was a production.

00:09:57Oh, there's Dad.

00:10:00It's a very typical Dad in Theatre Club look.

00:10:03There's Mum.

00:10:07You know, my Dad loved this place.

00:10:09He loved acting.

00:10:10And Mum did too.

00:10:12She was a good actor.

00:10:14There's a program there.

00:10:18Who's in it.

00:10:20And then a bunch of photos, so...

00:10:26It's this one.

00:10:27There's a couple like this with Dad and Carolyn.

00:10:31Just this moment caught where they're looking at each other

00:10:34and I just go, yeah.

00:10:39You know, that's the sort of vibe that my mum would have got hold of.

00:10:45Because the emotions were real, right?

00:10:47They weren't just acting.

00:10:49I don't know all the details of what went on there, but definitely a relationship was developing and a friendship and an attraction.

00:11:03The silliest thing I ever did in my whole life was to love you.

00:11:06They say a grand passion is like an insanity, and it was for both of them.

00:11:11I came because of the power of Charles' love.

00:11:14Tug and tug and tug that he didn't pick my sweet.

00:11:19Yes, there was a lot of sneaking around, which happens in an affair, but lots of presents and flowers and gifts.

00:11:30I did have to keep a secret.

00:11:33I could see how happy they both were.

00:11:36I mean, I cared deeply for Madeline as well, so that was very difficult.

00:11:40The risks that Alan Inu and Carolyn took, the notes that were left on the telegraph pole at the end of the road, on her car.

00:11:50I saw one at the supermarket when I was there, one day walked past her car and there was one of these notes.

00:11:57My dearest, most precious Carolyn, I love you.

00:12:02You are a wonderful man.

00:12:05Kind, thoughtful, understanding.

00:12:08I love the thoughts of our ultimate togetherness, which I now see is inevitable.

00:12:14Alan Inu had moved out of his home and had rendered a little flat.

00:12:22Madeline wasn't coping at all.

00:12:24She lost a lot of weight very quickly.

00:12:28I remember one day she told me she was going to kill herself.

00:12:33I said, oh, you know, you can't do that.

00:12:35Her two boys were at university in Sydney.

00:12:38Her daughter, Claire, was 18.

00:12:41She said she couldn't be jilted.

00:12:43She couldn't be left on her own as someone left for the younger person.

00:12:48She couldn't deal with that humiliation.

00:12:50And I spoke to my GP and he said what people used to say in those days.

00:12:54He said, oh, if they talk about it, they don't do it.

00:12:57And he was a well-meaning man.

00:13:01But that was wrong.

00:13:04Alan found the body and she'd organised so that Claire wasn't home that night.

00:13:08And sure enough, everything in the house was tip top.

00:13:14Food was made for her own funeral.

00:13:21In her letter to me, because she wrote suicide letters,

00:13:25she told me not to blame my father.

00:13:27And honestly, I don't.

00:13:28I don't blame anyone in this story.

00:13:32It's just really hard being the child of that story, you know.

00:13:41It's all very tragic to think about the fact that these two women in this play

00:13:47are now dead in the ways that they died.

00:13:50Carolyn was, she was devastated by it and felt incredible guilt.

00:14:02I would say that Alan Ennew, he was very sad about Madeleine

00:14:08and it was a traumatic and hideous thing that happened and he found her.

00:14:12But he was so obsessed with the fact that one day Carolyn would come to him

00:14:17and so he bought this big house.

00:14:20That was going to be the home with lots of bedrooms

00:14:22so that they could have all their children there eventually at times.

00:14:26That was his idea.

00:14:28No one wanted to be divorced.

00:14:29No one wanted to leave their husband.

00:14:31Because there was a lot of stigma in the community.

00:14:34Not today, but back in the 70s, dead right and 80s.

00:14:39If she left the marriage, she was concerned.

00:14:42What?

00:14:44I guess the parents of her students, the church.

00:14:48She felt enormous shame for going against what she had been taught

00:14:53as far as her religion was concerned.

00:14:55Religion was a big part of growing up in the 50s and 60s.

00:14:59Huge, you know.

00:15:01Everybody.

00:15:02It was rare for a family not to go to church.

00:15:03When she told us that Alan Stuckey had found out,

00:15:09I thought, right, now something will happen now.

00:15:12Either she will stay with him or she'll go with Alan Ennu,

00:15:15but at least it's not this terrible, dangerous game

00:15:19that they were still playing.

00:15:20You have distanced yourself and made me resentful

00:15:24by taunting me with Alan Ennu.

00:15:26If you do not love me,

00:15:29then I cannot go on to even try to work things out.

00:15:34My mum decided to stay with my dad,

00:15:38and he made her swear on the Bible

00:15:42and he wrote vows for her to take.

00:15:44I swear never to say or do anything again to hurt you.

00:15:53I swear never to lie to my husband, Alan, ever again.

00:15:58I swear that the affair is over completely

00:16:02and that I will never do anything directly or indirectly

00:16:06to have any type of relationship with him again.

00:16:09I swear to love, honour and cherish you for the rest of my days.

00:16:18I asked her if she was worried for her own safety

00:16:22and she said, no, no.

00:16:25She said, I'm not, but I am worried what he might do to Alan Ennu.

00:16:30Alan, if you should have any thoughts of trying to rekindle the relationship

00:16:35or even getting in touch with her in any way,

00:16:37then I will tell you now, you will join your wife.

00:16:44But she was very unhappy.

00:16:46She...

00:16:48Well, she'd just had a baby.

00:16:51Um...

00:16:53It must have been so stressful for her.

00:16:56And she had two little boys as well.

00:16:57My darling Alan...

00:16:58To choose to go to you meant the disruption of her family,

00:17:09gossip and talk about the cause of Madeline's death.

00:17:14To stay with Alan meant unbearable pain for you.

00:17:18For me, it meant an ache inside which I know will be with me every day for the rest of my life.

00:17:26She'd supposedly broken off with Alan Ennu, it was over, suddenly she was seeing him again.

00:17:33And I said, Alan Stuckey will not let her go without a fight.

00:17:38We always knew that he was a man who would not be able to accept it.

00:17:47Like a lot of people, I suppose.

00:17:48And then he puts a private detective on her.

00:17:53Good God!

00:17:55She thought Alan Stuckey had been having her followed.

00:18:00I think she said, a little grey Volkswagen.

00:18:03I think I'm being followed.

00:18:05Um...

00:18:07To which I just thought, oh my God, where's that going to go?

00:18:10There's absolutely no excuse for that behaviour.

00:18:13Monitoring someone's movements is a huge indicator of family violence, of coercive control.

00:18:19I find it really disturbing that he did that.

00:18:22That he felt justified in doing that.

00:18:39My darling.

00:18:41I'm going to ask you again for the complete peace of mind.

00:18:45Have you had any contact since your vows?

00:18:49I beg you, I implore you, do not tell me a lie.

00:18:54It is the most important question you will ever answer.

00:19:00All I know is I love you more than anything.

00:19:04Alan.

00:19:09I happened to be in the station on the 31st of January 1985.

00:19:14When the phone rang.

00:19:16And I answered it.

00:19:18There was a male voice on the other end of the phone.

00:19:21Very calmly said,

00:19:23It's Alan Stuckey.

00:19:25From Five Banksia Court, Lisboa Heights.

00:19:29And I said,

00:19:30Yes, Alan, how can we help you?

00:19:32And he said,

00:19:34You'd better come up.

00:19:35I've just shot my wife.

00:19:36You know, when you did your training at the police academy,

00:19:39one of the things that I do remember very clearly

00:19:42that they instilled in young police

00:19:45was that domestic violence incidents,

00:19:48attending those,

00:19:50was the most dangerous situation that we would go to.

00:19:52Of course, you know, I was anxious,

00:19:57approaching the house under those circumstances.

00:20:00And, you know, we went into the house

00:20:03and Alan Stuckey was sitting in the kitchen at a bench.

00:20:07He was just sitting there calmly

00:20:10sipping coffee from a mug

00:20:13as though nothing had happened.

00:20:15It was, yeah, it was quite surreal.

00:20:23I walked into the main bedroom

00:20:26and there was a double bed to the right.

00:20:29At the foot of the bed

00:20:31was a female person.

00:20:34It was quite shocking, obviously,

00:20:37what had happened to start with,

00:20:39but also having the, you know,

00:20:41the three children in the house at the time.

00:20:45And, yeah, by good fortune,

00:20:48perhaps nothing happened to them at the time.

00:20:53I was teaching down the other end of the peninsula here.

00:20:57I out on the playground on duty

00:20:59and my husband pulled up.

00:21:00I said, what are you doing here?

00:21:02He said, oh, I've got something terrible news to tell you.

00:21:05I turned the radio on next to the bed

00:21:09and it said that a 32-year-old small woman

00:21:15had been shot dead overnight.

00:21:17Police were at the scene in Kenelabar.

00:21:20I'm with you.

00:21:24It was fairly hysterical in our house.

00:21:27We were incredibly upset.

00:21:29Alan had killed Carolyn

00:21:31and, as a child, I just had no concept of what that,

00:21:37how that could happen.

00:21:39I can still remember the feeling and thinking,

00:21:42oh, my God, I could have stopped this.

00:21:43That was something I think a lot of people thought.

00:21:49In a case like that, a murder,

00:21:52or an unlawful killing of someone,

00:21:55we call out the detectives.

00:21:57They come to the scene.

00:21:59They take over the investigation.

00:22:01The lead investigator was Detective Sergeant Don Kuehl.

00:22:05Senior Constable Will Palmer rang me at home,

00:22:08told me that there'd been a shooting

00:22:10and a lady was deceased.

00:22:13We went back to the police station

00:22:16where he was interviewed in the presence of his solicitor.

00:22:19Given some of the answers and whatnot,

00:22:21I'd say that he'd run through a lot of the possible situations

00:22:26with his solicitor prior, which he's entitled to do.

00:22:29For the information of this record of interview,

00:22:33what is your full name?

00:22:35Alan James Stuckey.

00:22:37I had reason to doubt her fidelity

00:22:39and I engaged the private investigator to check her movements.

00:22:42Can you tell me what happened?

00:22:44She admitted that she had been with Alan NU on that day.

00:22:47She said she couldn't give him up.

00:22:49What did you do?

00:22:50I took the rifle from my study and raced back to the bedroom.

00:22:53She screamed and grabbed the barrel of the rifle

00:22:55and we struggled. Shots were fired.

00:22:59When did you load this rifle?

00:23:01I was going to shoot a flying fox a couple of months ago

00:23:03and that's when.

00:23:05Did you load the magazine loaded with live cartridges in this rifle

00:23:08in your study?

00:23:10Yes, but it was right back behind the bed

00:23:12so that it's not easy for anybody to get at.

00:23:15What happened then?

00:23:16I had a shower and tried to compose my mind

00:23:18and work out if I should kill myself or not.

00:23:21I rang my sister to ask her to come and collect my children

00:23:25and it occurred to me that there was a debt that I hadn't paid

00:23:28and that was to the private investigator

00:23:30and I rang his residence to tell him that his money was in the work safe.

00:23:34I didn't want to feel that I had left some money owing.

00:23:37You have explained to us your wife's affair with the person Alan NU.

00:23:41Is that the only reason you can give us for this shooting having taken place?

00:23:45Yes, and considerations allied to it, yes.

00:23:47Is there anything further you wish to say in relation to this matter?

00:23:51Just that the affair has been going on for two years.

00:23:55That's all.

00:24:00I was three months old.

00:24:03My brothers were four and eight.

00:24:07And to have the children in the house when he did it.

00:24:11I mean, you can't imagine that scene.

00:24:14I don't think you can make sense of it.

00:24:17It's unforgivable.

00:24:19Should never have happened.

00:24:23I mean, the type of thing that was going on happens all the time.

00:24:27People don't die for it.

00:24:29After he was charged with murder, Alan Stucky was bailed.

00:24:36The reason he would have got bailed is because of his standing community.

00:24:39He was a chemist.

00:24:41No prior convictions.

00:24:43Young children were still there.

00:24:45He's not going to decamp.

00:24:47So Stucky got bailed.

00:24:49Went back to work, I think.

00:24:52My dad was charged with murder.

00:24:55But the trial wasn't for a year and a half.

00:24:59It was quite surprising to me, I think, when I realised that my brothers and I were at home with my dad a lot of that time.

00:25:09He was able to get out, resume a normal life with his children, with his three young children, back in his house in Lismore Heights and go back as a practising pharmacist, of all things.

00:25:25Despite the fact that he had killed Caroline, he still had the legal right to dispose of her body as her husband.

00:25:35And he just simply had her cremated instantly with no ceremony.

00:25:41And nobody had a chance to recognise what had happened or to say goodbye to her.

00:25:53It was just as though she'd been put out with the rubbish.

00:25:57I've always wanted to know everything about it, you know, like everything surrounding it.

00:26:04I've always wanted to know what happened, how it happened, why it happened.

00:26:15That's been a lifelong journey.

00:26:22I want to understand where we were and where I was and what happened afterwards and why the decisions that were made were made.

00:26:34So part of it is just wanting to know about my own life and know information and put those puzzle pieces together.

00:26:51So this is the trial transcript.

00:26:57And are you feeling okay about looking at it now?

00:27:00I am. I feel a little bit nervous about it.

00:27:03I don't know. There's a part of me that sort of wants information and then sort of wants to look at it.

00:27:10And then a part of me that finds it quite, you know, upsetting.

00:27:14Absolutely.

00:27:16So in this trial, your father argued that he acted in response to provocation.

00:27:22The provocation in this case was said to be that Carolyn was having an affair.

00:27:32They're arguing that a person's actions contributed to their death.

00:27:39The provocation defence is actually a partial defence.

00:27:43It will reduce your culpability from murder to manslaughter.

00:27:48The guideline of the provocation and the evidence required is that it comes back to what an ordinary person would do under those circumstances.

00:27:59So in other words, you and I, would we react the same way as Alan Stuckey acted given the circumstances?

00:28:06People's marriages break down.

00:28:10I'm a lawyer.

00:28:12And I hate being a family lawyer, but somebody's got to do it.

00:28:15And it happens all the time, but you don't turn around and kill your spouse.

00:28:20Your full name is?

00:28:29William Arthur Barclay, a consultant psychiatrist now in private practice.

00:28:34Are you able to express an opinion as to whether that conduct could have induced an ordinary person to lose self-control in psychiatric terms?

00:28:43Yes, I believe so.

00:28:47There was a certain element of, um, if someone was wronged in that way, then they could be excused for not being able to control themselves.

00:28:57There's an ordinary person get a gun, which is already in the house, loaded with three young children in the place.

00:29:07There's an ordinary person do that.

00:29:09And there's an ordinary person shoot his wife.

00:29:13And there's an ordinary person have a shower, ring a friend, ring his solicitor.

00:29:18There's an ordinary person do that.

00:29:19The person that they've killed is no longer able to give their side of the story or talk about what they went through.

00:29:27It's very one-sided and it's highly critical of that person.

00:29:33And then at the same time, you also get people giving evidence about the positive characteristics of the accused.

00:29:41When you spoke to your brother, can you describe how he appeared to you to be?

00:29:46Extremely upset.

00:29:49What sort of person is your brother?

00:29:52A very serious-minded, very moral, quiet, shy, very idealistic person.

00:30:01I also think very naive.

00:30:04Is he a violent sort of person?

00:30:07No. No, not at all.

00:30:09He loved the children. He always has.

00:30:11Did he ever express to you the view he took of marriage?

00:30:17That marriage is a sacred thing.

00:30:22It seemed so odd to me that none of her friends got to speak for her at least because she wasn't able to speak.

00:30:30So it's like there were other people who could have at least spoke to her character and given some indication of what she was going through.

00:30:43I just, yeah.

00:30:44Yeah, it becomes very one-sided sort of view of what happens in that situation, doesn't it?

00:30:50Yeah, yeah.

00:30:52Sometimes the prosecution could go much further in the way that they approach this and in trying to ask questions and get more information about that context.

00:31:02They don't always understand the dynamics of family violence themselves and the importance of it for understanding what happens in domestic homicides.

00:31:14What we really needed in this trial as far as the prosecution is concerned, we needed someone that was going to get in there and fight like a bulldog and shake their head and carry on.

00:31:24And unfortunately, we finished up with a golden retriever.

00:31:29I was appalled at the lack of prosecution.

00:31:33I mean, I remember sitting in the back of the court and just thinking, oh my God.

00:31:38The worst thing about trying to recover from this for all of us was that there was so, so much shock and horror because she was this scarlet woman.

00:31:50We would hear indirectly about the outrage about what this woman had done to this poor chap, not what this chap had done to this poor woman.

00:32:02Yeah, I just think there was this mindset that she's the villain in all this, she's done the wrong thing.

00:32:11And in a sense, I hate to say it, but some of those people I'm sure think she got what she deserved.

00:32:18So there's quite a lot of evidence in relation to the ballistics, what sort of weapon was used and how that weapon is operated.

00:32:45Carol was shot three times, once in the abdomen, twice in the head.

00:32:55Oh, this one's really graphic.

00:32:57After the first shot, she's wounded lying on the floor and she wouldn't have died from that shot either.

00:33:08The doctors have said, surely he should have realised what he's doing.

00:33:13Two more times, he cocked that gun and fired it again.

00:33:15And this is a bolt-action gun, a bolt-action .22 rifle.

00:33:20So it's not like a semi-automatic where you just have to pull the trigger.

00:33:24There was a manual requirement to reload that gun.

00:33:30Or you can probably just do it like that. That's one. Bang.

00:33:34Two.

00:33:35Two.

00:33:36It's a very deliberate action. That's what I'm trying to say.

00:33:45Yeah, there is quite a lot in the child transcript about where abouts in the house the shooting occurred.

00:33:51There's a map that's been provided as part of the evidence.

00:33:56Let me see that there.

00:33:59This is my bedroom.

00:34:01This is my dad's room still, all the way through my life.

00:34:05Absolutely.

00:34:06I go into this room every day that she was, you know, lying here dying and just...

00:34:14Yeah, that's horrible.

00:34:16Yeah, it's awful.

00:34:17He was undoubtedly at all times a man of exceptional character and obvious good standing in the community.

00:34:33The prisoner's control of himself over a lengthy period ultimately snapped when his wife told him she could not give up her lover.

00:34:41In the circumstances, some response on his part would not have been unreasonable.

00:34:48However, to shoot the deceased three times was hardly proportionate to the devastating verbal message.

00:34:56It was greater than the circumstances warranted.

00:35:00In my view, the prisoner is unlikely to again offend against the law.

00:35:04The prisoner's strong subjective matters, unlike many other cases, provide the basis for specifying a non-parole period which will give him the opportunity of resuming his life in the community and with his children at a reasonably early time.

00:35:20Ellen James Stuckey, on the charge on which the jury has convicted you, I sentence you to penal servitude for eight years.

00:35:31I specify a non-parole period of three years.

00:35:34She, like, sort of made me do it.

00:35:39She ran off, you know, went off with another man.

00:35:42Poor, it was all, poor me, poor me, I'm the victim here.

00:35:46Yeah, it makes me really furious, actually.

00:35:50I have difficulty reconciling the fact that this matter resulted in a conviction for manslaughter, I really do.

00:36:01But of course I have to accept the court's decision, that's the system of justice that we have in this country.

00:36:06Even though we don't have provocation defence available in most states in Australia anymore,

00:36:12we still see the same explanations for why men acted the way they did in these cases.

00:36:20The provocation narrative can still be used to understand their actions when they're considering sentencing.

00:36:27I asked him one time, like, he said something about the fact that he'd never apologise to us,

00:36:32and he was like, I don't owe you or anyone an apology.

00:36:35Wow.

00:36:36The absence of the impact on the children is really striking as well.

00:36:44Yeah.

00:36:45It felt like a real sense of, like, what's best for my father and really centred around him,

00:36:51rather than thinking about us and the long-term impacts of the decisions that were made.

00:36:57The actual conclusion of that drama was catastrophic for the children especially.

00:37:07So these are letters that my dad wrote me when he was in prison.

00:37:30So I was probably about two or three years old.

00:37:35Most of them are, um, like, pictures of birds that my dad has drawn.

00:37:44Or trees.

00:37:46Dear Catherine, it is Sunday here as I am riding this and the weather is very poor.

00:37:52There is a big fog all over the camp and it is just so thick it is almost like rain.

00:37:57This is a kookaburra.

00:37:59See his big strong beak for eating meat?

00:38:01Sometimes they eat snakes and their song is just like a laugh.

00:38:05Love, Dad.

00:38:06My father served 22 months for killing my mother.

00:38:07On his release my brothers and I went back to live with him.

00:38:12I was about four years old.

00:38:15I was appalled that he could be given custody of the children.

00:38:24I cannot understand how the court made an order that she was to live with her father.

00:38:31I really cannot understand that.

00:38:33So this is a picture of me in primary school.

00:38:38I excelled at school and I had a lot of friends and I enjoyed it.

00:38:42But it felt like a different world when I went home.

00:38:43I felt a real disconnect between what I was showing people and what I was experiencing internally.

00:38:45I wasn't allowed to do so.

00:38:46I wasn't allowed to do so.

00:38:47I wasn't allowed to do so.

00:38:48I felt a real disconnect between what I was showing people and what I was experiencing internally.

00:38:50I wasn't allowed to do so.

00:38:51In camera, I wasn't allowed to do so.

00:38:55There weren't photos.

00:39:12They weren't photos.

00:39:13I wasn't allowed to talk about my mother.

00:39:19There weren't photos, there weren't stories.

00:39:23I didn't have any sense of who she was.

00:39:28Her name was never mentioned.

00:39:33The story that I was told was that she had done this awful thing,

00:39:40he had snapped and then he killed her

00:39:44and really framed as this sort of accident.

00:39:52I feel like there was a really significant shift

00:39:56in my relationship with my dad.

00:39:58When I went to high school,

00:40:01I really felt like I'd become someone that he really didn't like.

00:40:06Like, where there was this sense of, like, entitlement and control

00:40:12and that if you step outside of this little box

00:40:15that he's kind of put you in,

00:40:18then you become this huge disappointment

00:40:20and you're uncontrollable.

00:40:26I knew that I had to be a certain way,

00:40:30show that I was fine,

00:40:33even if I was suffering.

00:40:36feeling like at any moment

00:40:40love will be withdrawn.

00:40:46I just remember bumping into her one day

00:40:48and I knew it was her birthday

00:40:49and I took her around to the cafe

00:40:51and we had nice chocolate and we had a chat.

00:40:56She told me that she understood

00:40:58that her mother was leaving her

00:41:02and the boys

00:41:03and I just said,

00:41:05no, that's not true.

00:41:12That's what her father had told her.

00:41:14that there was no way her mother would have left her

00:41:25and the lies that she'd been told

00:41:29were just

00:41:29not right.

00:41:32When I was 16 and needed to get my passport

00:41:40and I needed to get a death certificate

00:41:42and so it was the first time I actually had seen

00:41:46her cause of death

00:41:48like written down

00:41:49which was something like

00:41:50the effects of a gunshot wound to the head

00:41:52which was incredibly confronting

00:41:56for me at 16

00:41:57because nobody had ever said that to me.

00:42:00They hadn't actually said like,

00:42:02this is how she died.

00:42:03I remember that feeling of reading

00:42:05that death certificate

00:42:07and being really shocked at

00:42:10I guess the bluntness of it

00:42:11but just also

00:42:12that that was what it was

00:42:14you know

00:42:15that my dad

00:42:18had shot her

00:42:19in the head.

00:42:21That knowledge

00:42:22made me realise that

00:42:24I was unsafe

00:42:26actually

00:42:27like physically unsafe

00:42:30and it's not

00:42:31it's like I felt that before

00:42:33but I had this example of like

00:42:36how far he could go.

00:42:38I felt scared of my dad

00:42:40at that time

00:42:41and what he could do

00:42:44because I was also just living on my own

00:42:47with him at that point.

00:42:49My brothers had left home

00:42:50and I think

00:42:52why didn't anyone else

00:42:53why didn't the adults

00:42:54you know

00:42:54ask some questions

00:42:56check in

00:42:57all of those things.

00:43:00It's not like people

00:43:01didn't know

00:43:02that that was fucking strange.

00:43:04That was a weird thing

00:43:06that we were growing up

00:43:07in the house

00:43:08that our mother was killed

00:43:09with the man that killed her.

00:43:14I think there was an assumption

00:43:15that everything

00:43:17was fine.

00:43:19Everyone wanted it to be fine

00:43:20so

00:43:21I thought

00:43:23well if I'm not fine

00:43:24then something's wrong with me

00:43:25not them.

00:43:26I started having nightmares

00:43:30about

00:43:30her death

00:43:32like

00:43:33very graphic nightmares

00:43:35about

00:43:36um

00:43:36her being shot

00:43:37in this house

00:43:39that I was living in

00:43:39and

00:43:41it was also just like

00:43:42my everyday house

00:43:43you know

00:43:44like coming from school

00:43:45and

00:43:45making myself a snack

00:43:47and

00:43:47you know

00:43:48sometimes

00:43:49I would watch something

00:43:50with my dad

00:43:50and it was funny

00:43:51and we'd laugh

00:43:52and

00:43:52it was just my life

00:43:54and

00:43:55it was also

00:43:55terrifying at times

00:43:57it's

00:43:58yeah

00:43:59I knew that

00:44:10to have

00:44:10any sort of peace

00:44:12that

00:44:13I needed to

00:44:14leave Lismore

00:44:15and

00:44:17I

00:44:17finished my last exam

00:44:19packed up my stuff

00:44:21and

00:44:21one day

00:44:22when my dad

00:44:22was at work

00:44:23and just

00:44:23left

00:44:24I actually don't remember

00:44:29saying goodbye

00:44:29to my dad

00:44:30at all

00:44:30so

00:44:33I went to

00:44:33Sydney

00:44:34and

00:44:36moved in

00:44:37with my cousin

00:44:38Elle

00:44:38and the family

00:44:39and

00:44:41we went to

00:44:42uni together

00:44:43at Sydney

00:44:43uni

00:44:44at some point

00:44:46I got a job

00:44:48at Sydney Theatre Company

00:44:49and that's where I met Tanya

00:44:50Catherine's

00:44:53my best friend

00:44:54my former partner

00:44:56we met

00:44:57in 2008

00:44:59neither of us

00:45:00had been in a queer relationship

00:45:01before

00:45:01so

00:45:02our

00:45:03falling in love

00:45:04was

00:45:04a really beautiful time

00:45:06and also a complicated time

00:45:07we had like

00:45:08great crew of friends

00:45:09that we spent time with

00:45:10and saw a lot of art

00:45:11we were super broke

00:45:12but

00:45:14it was

00:45:16a beautiful

00:45:18kind of love story

00:45:19and then also

00:45:20like

00:45:21interwoven

00:45:22with a lot of

00:45:23trauma and pain

00:45:24I guess

00:45:24I felt like

00:45:27I would

00:45:28leave behind

00:45:29like everything

00:45:30that had happened

00:45:31and

00:45:32including

00:45:34that

00:45:34feeling

00:45:35of

00:45:36I guess

00:45:38you know

00:45:38depression

00:45:39and

00:45:39I just assumed

00:45:40that that would

00:45:41go away

00:45:42once I was out of the house

00:45:44and away from my dad

00:45:45and

00:45:47it didn't

00:45:50in fact it felt

00:45:52worse

00:45:54I was more depressed

00:45:56I was really depressed

00:45:57I don't think I've ever seen

00:45:59Catherine

00:46:00asleep

00:46:01and

00:46:02we were together

00:46:04for four years

00:46:05insomnia

00:46:06and nightmares

00:46:07were a big part of

00:46:08our life

00:46:08they would

00:46:10sit

00:46:11bolt upright

00:46:12and they would be screaming

00:46:13it was

00:46:14a guttural scream

00:46:16and

00:46:18they would be shaking

00:46:19hyperventilating

00:46:21it was

00:46:21just fear

00:46:23just

00:46:24just fear

00:46:25how anyone thought

00:46:27that he could raise

00:46:29those kids in the home

00:46:30where he killed Carolyn

00:46:31and then

00:46:33have one of them

00:46:34grow up

00:46:35with physical likeness

00:46:36to this person

00:46:37and for people

00:46:39not to think

00:46:39that there was going to be

00:46:40some

00:46:40some problems there

00:46:42perplexes me

00:46:43my father was still

00:46:46in regular

00:46:47contact with me

00:46:48and writing me

00:46:49letters that were

00:46:51pretty awful

00:46:52some days

00:46:54we would be going about

00:46:55our days in our tiny

00:46:56little apartment

00:46:56and it was like

00:46:58living with someone

00:46:58that wasn't there

00:46:59like they were the

00:47:01closest person to me

00:47:02in the world

00:47:02so when they did

00:47:03disappear

00:47:04it was

00:47:06difficult

00:47:07and I didn't know

00:47:10what to do

00:47:11and it was during

00:47:13that time

00:47:14that I

00:47:16went through a lot

00:47:17of things in my life

00:47:18a breakup

00:47:19with Tanya

00:47:20that

00:47:21brought a lot

00:47:23of grief

00:47:24and loss

00:47:27into my

00:47:27to my world

00:47:29so

00:47:30I

00:47:31started going to therapy

00:47:33like really seriously

00:47:34for the first time

00:47:35and

00:47:37really started

00:47:39dealing with

00:47:40my childhood

00:47:43so in 2013

00:47:54I dropped my surname

00:47:56Stucky

00:47:56and I made my middle name

00:47:59my surname

00:48:00which is Joy

00:48:01and Joy

00:48:03was my mum's middle name

00:48:05part of it

00:48:06was not wanting

00:48:08to just be easily

00:48:09tracked down

00:48:10by my father

00:48:12and then there was

00:48:13really embracing

00:48:14my mum

00:48:15and that side

00:48:16of the family

00:48:17I always felt like

00:48:39I wasn't going to be around

00:48:41for very long

00:48:41like I was going to have

00:48:45a short life

00:48:46like my mum

00:48:48I worked out

00:48:51how old she was

00:48:52when she was killed

00:48:53which was

00:48:5532 years

00:48:569 weeks

00:48:57and 6 days

00:48:58and I worked out

00:49:01what date

00:49:02that will be for me

00:49:03and

00:49:04it's the

00:49:0527th of December

00:49:062016

00:49:07so I have a cut off date

00:49:11in my head

00:49:11and

00:49:12I have about

00:49:136 months

00:49:14I've always just assumed

00:49:17that I

00:49:17would die

00:49:19sometime

00:49:20before then

00:49:21that's

00:49:24that's it for me

00:49:25part of

00:49:36feeling like

00:49:37I'm

00:49:37not going to be

00:49:38here next year

00:49:39is not having

00:49:41a mother

00:49:43to kind of

00:49:44see what that looks like

00:49:45what that next part

00:49:46looks like

00:49:47and getting older

00:49:48looks like

00:49:48and a lot of people

00:49:49look to their

00:49:50parents for that

00:49:52but

00:49:52part of it

00:49:55I think

00:49:55is just that I

00:49:56feel like

00:49:58we're somehow

00:49:59the same person

00:50:01and that's probably

00:50:04not the healthiest

00:50:04thing in the world

00:50:05so it's like

00:50:162am

00:50:17or something

00:50:18and

00:50:18I can't

00:50:21sleep

00:50:22because

00:50:22I've never been

00:50:24able to take

00:50:25sleeping pills

00:50:25because they give me

00:50:26these

00:50:26nightmares

00:50:28I feel like

00:50:30having

00:50:31them around

00:50:32is probably

00:50:32not a good idea

00:50:33so

00:50:34I'm supposed

00:50:44to be at

00:50:44therapy

00:50:45today

00:50:46I had to

00:50:48cancel it

00:50:48because I

00:50:49can't afford to

00:50:50go

00:50:50like I'm 32

00:50:53and I can't

00:50:53pay my rent

00:50:54I think

00:50:58that's enough

00:50:59for today

00:51:00I really

00:51:06didn't want

00:51:07to do this

00:51:07today

00:51:08because I

00:51:08feel awful

00:51:09and

00:51:10and I'm

00:51:15afraid of

00:51:15not coming

00:51:18out of it

00:51:19today

00:51:32is

00:51:32December

00:51:3326th

00:51:34so

00:51:36tomorrow

00:51:37I will be

00:51:39the exact age

00:51:40that my mother

00:51:41was when she

00:51:41was killed

00:51:42I

00:51:56knew

00:52:00that

00:52:01I

00:52:05knew

00:52:05I

00:52:05and

00:52:06the

00:52:07the

00:52:08and

00:52:08So, today is New Year's Day, and I'm alive, so that's kind of strange.

00:52:32I've just realised how many people in my life are willing to help.

00:52:38And it's a really beautiful thing.

00:52:40So, I guess just thinking about the next couple of months, thinking about how I'm going to survive.

00:52:49And some of those things are just kind of practical things to do with work and finding another job.

00:52:59I think I need to learn to drive.

00:53:02I will, I guess, be back tomorrow.

00:53:14For such a long time, the only thing that I knew about my mum was the way that she died.

00:53:28Then that became my whole relationship with her.

00:53:35It's been really important to me for her to exist as a person who lived and not just a person who was killed.

00:53:47I decided that I wanted to write to some people and, like, ask them what my mum was like.

00:54:04So, we're going to Brisbane to meet Anne MacKinnon, a friend of my mum's.

00:54:16I'm excited because I never really knew what happened to her.

00:54:23We couldn't get a lot of information.

00:54:26We lost our friend, but you don't know what happened to the children.

00:54:31I probably never thought about it from the point of view of the child.

00:54:35Their feelings and what their lives turned out like.

00:54:39When my mum was younger, I think they studied together at Teachers College, from what I know.

00:54:49So, it would be nice to hear about.

00:54:52I guess those days before my mum was her mother too.

00:54:57You know, just her as a younger person.

00:54:59I guess women.

00:55:05May I hug you? Is that okay?

00:55:08Perfectly. Oh, you're a beautiful girl.

00:55:10I just want you to stand next to me like mum and I.

00:55:14Oh, my goodness.

00:55:16You're a little bit taller.

00:55:18Wow.

00:55:20That's going to the ball.

00:55:21Oh, that's a beautiful picture.

00:55:23Oh, we would have been 18.

00:55:25Wow.

00:55:26God, you like her. Oh, my God.

00:55:27So nice to see you.

00:55:29So nice to see you.

00:55:31Because we buddied up and we used to just wake up at ten to nine,

00:55:35put the Levi's on and the gym boots and tuck her hair in and jump the fence and go to uni.

00:55:39We had to go nine to five in those days.

00:55:41It was very regimented, mark the roll, you know.

00:55:44And she started skipping.

00:55:46I said, you've got to come to social studies.

00:55:49She goes, oh, yes.

00:55:51I love this.

00:55:52I love this because this is so me.

00:55:54And I say, get up.

00:55:55She goes, no, no, no, I can't be bothered.

00:55:57I said, no, no, no, you'll fail.

00:55:58And she did.

00:56:00Anyway, she got through it.

00:56:02Yeah.

00:56:03She was messy.

00:56:05I'm really messy, too.

00:56:07Are you messy?

00:56:08Show me your hands.

00:56:09I'm so undyed.

00:56:10You don't get eczema.

00:56:11I do, yes.

00:56:12So did she.

00:56:13Yeah.

00:56:14This is a recipe.

00:56:15Cool.

00:56:16That's Mum's writing.

00:56:17That's Mum's writing.

00:56:18Oh, yes.

00:56:19She had such neat writing.

00:56:21Carolyn.

00:56:22And that's rum cream pie.

00:56:23I've got a copy of that too.

00:56:24You have that.

00:56:25Amazing.

00:56:26Oh, thank you.

00:56:27You have that.

00:56:28This is my little treasure trove I've got out.

00:56:30I'm going to veganise this recipe and make it.

00:56:34You keep all those.

00:56:36Oh, thank you.

00:56:37You know, you're more than welcome.

00:56:38It was so nice to meet you.

00:56:39Thank you so much.

00:56:40It's just been wonderful.

00:56:41It's been really lovely.

00:56:42And I really hope we can catch up again and stay in touch.

00:56:45Give a hug.

00:56:52I decided to get in touch with Ellen Ennew, who is the man my mother fell in love with,

00:56:59and had an affair with, and ask some questions about my mum.

00:57:05Dear Catherine, the first thing I should mention regarding our relationship is that,

00:57:10while it started as an affair, it developed into much more.

00:57:15Carolyn was a very special person to me, but not only to me, but many friends she had,

00:57:22and was and is sadly missed, even after all this time.

00:57:29I had also received a letter from Claire during that time.

00:57:35She contacted me after she had heard that I'd reached out to her dad.

00:57:43And we just became really good friends.

00:57:48And such a big anchor for me.

00:57:52While we didn't have the same experience,

00:57:56there was so many things that were similar.

00:58:01And there was just a real understanding of our families and that town and everything that happened.

00:58:06I don't think I've ever really been around here much.

00:58:21Ah, Greenwick. That's, I feel like that name is in the trial.

00:58:24So this is the house where my dad and your mum were planning on being together.

00:58:36So dad bought this house thinking that you and your brothers would move in here.

00:58:42And of course your mum.

00:58:43And of course your mum.

00:58:45This would have been your home.

00:58:47And yours.

00:58:49And mine.

00:58:50Yeah, I mean I guess it's a different, a whole like life that could have been.

00:59:06And that being, yeah, taken away from her and from us and from all of us.

00:59:16When you said that, you used to think, where are those people who were my mother's friends?

00:59:33Why aren't they helping me?

00:59:35I just, you know, that was devastating to hear that I knew your father's animosity to anyone who was from, from that time.

00:59:42Yeah.

00:59:43But maybe we should have gone past that.

00:59:45You know, maybe that's, you know, we should.

00:59:49I guess we should have been brave.

00:59:50We were all looking after ourselves as well.

00:59:53I mean, we were afraid to.

00:59:55You know, I was scared to ask questions because I didn't know who to ask.

00:59:58And I, like it was, it was honestly like, it had never happened.

01:00:02But I just imagined that every time anywhere you went, that, you know, people would have said, oh, you know.

01:00:08I'm sure they did.

01:00:09I mean, that's the thing too, growing up knowing that other people, well, not even knowing, but feeling like people were talking about you all the time.

01:00:16Did you?

01:00:18Yeah.

01:00:19You know, we could, oh, I can handle anything but the silence.

01:00:26The silence.

01:00:27Yeah.

01:00:28Yeah.

01:00:31I hated that everyone always was so careful.

01:00:35I mean, I know it was a protective thing, but that, yeah, we, it's like I've already lived through the worst of it.

01:00:41This, the worst, yeah, the worst part is not speaking about it.

01:00:46So I went back to Banksy Court, my old street that I grew up in.

01:00:57But I was with Helen and Lyndall, my two old neighbours.

01:01:02Wow.

01:01:03How do you feel coming back and have you been back before?

01:01:09I think I've driven past once in the last, you know, 20 years or something, but I haven't kind of stood here.

01:01:16Yeah.

01:01:17Yeah.

01:01:18Yeah.

01:01:19Whew.

01:01:21It's hard.

01:01:24Yeah.

01:01:26I remember it being a really dark house growing up.

01:01:28I mean, I don't know if that was my state of mind or, but the house itself.

01:01:31No, it was a dark house.

01:01:32Yeah.

01:01:33Yeah.

01:01:34And the curtains, I feel like the curtains were always closed.

01:01:37Did you notice the difference between like when my mum was there and after, like, did it feel very different?

01:01:43I remember being here to look after your brothers, Catherine, when your dad took you as a little baby.

01:01:49And I just was sitting in the house, just feeling the enormity of what had happened and how dark and, you know, your mum was always vibrant and there'd be snacks and lots of activity happening and giggling.

01:02:02And the sense was just that huge contrast between, you know, this is now and here on.

01:02:10Yeah.

01:02:11And, but I think now we get to grieve that.

01:02:14Mm-hmm.

01:02:15Whereas back then we didn't, because we didn't know how.

01:02:27There she is.

01:02:28Oh, there she is.

01:02:29I feel really angry about the fact that it says passed away.

01:02:36I was just looking at that.

01:02:38That just makes me really mad because he, he did this.

01:02:41She'll always be older than me.

01:02:45Mm.

01:02:46I'm 52 and I still look at Caroline as.

01:02:49Oh no, isn't that strange.

01:02:50Your mum read this to you when you're a baby.

01:02:55I carry your heart with me.

01:02:58I carry it in my heart.

01:03:00I am never without it.

01:03:02Anywhere I go, you go, my dear.

01:03:05And whatever is done by only me is your doing, my darling.

01:03:10I fear no fate.

01:03:13For you are my fate, my sweet.

01:03:16I want no world.

01:03:18For beautiful you are my world, my true.

01:03:22I carry your heart.

01:03:24I carry it in my heart.

01:03:36I love you so much.

01:03:40The three of you so, so much.

01:03:54I had been having these thoughts about doing a memorial for my mum.

01:04:01Make a space for all of us to talk a bit more about her and have some ritual around it.

01:04:09I felt like I needed that, like a grief ritual.

01:04:13And, and I felt like other people did too.

01:04:18Catherine wanted to do something in Lismore to bring together friends and family to honour Caroline.

01:04:29They ended up finding this outdoor cathedral, which is so beautiful and yeah, really connected.

01:04:36Catherine's kind of environmental spirituality and Caroline's faith.

01:04:42So many people really were just waiting for me to ask, you know, like really actually wanted the opportunity to speak about her.

01:05:11Hi.

01:05:12How are you going?

01:05:13This is my daughter.

01:05:14Nice to meet you.

01:05:15How are you?

01:05:16Good to see you.

01:05:17This is the first photo of Catherine's mother.

01:05:19So, Caroline would have been around four to five.

01:05:26It's a beautiful photo.

01:05:27Catherine did an amazing job of organising the memorial.

01:05:31She got all sorts of people came together.

01:05:34People that I hadn't seen for years were there.

01:05:37That made it emotional because we knew why we were there.

01:05:41You too.

01:05:42It was also a real time of connection and beauty and community.

01:05:48And it was amazing.

01:05:50And it was so cathartic for all of us there.

01:05:53Emotion was so raw, so real.

01:05:56It was as if it was a week after something had happened.

01:06:01And I'll never forget it.

01:06:03I just wanted to welcome everyone here.

01:06:06Probably all know it's Caroline's birthday today.

01:06:09And I feel like maybe if she were here, she would put on some spectacular dinner party.

01:06:14She would print out menus.

01:06:16Her attention to detail, I have heard, was pretty spot on.

01:06:20Caroline, your death came before the groundswell change of public outrage

01:06:25at the incidents of domestic violence that blight our community.

01:06:29Even now, 30 years later, I find it difficult to speak without

01:06:33feeling a little bit of a lump in the throat.

01:06:35And today is pleasure for me as well.

01:06:38And I just am so happy and so pleased to see you, the embodiment of your mother

01:06:45and with the approach to life that I think she would be very, very proud of.

01:06:51I've been trying to put words to how I feel about my mother my whole life.

01:06:56The feeling of being part of her and her me, but also the absence of something missing.

01:07:02Happy anniversary of your birth, Caroline Joy.

01:07:07You have lived in my heart and mind and body since the very first moment I took breath.

01:07:13And you will be there until the last.

01:07:16And in that way you have lived far longer than your 32 years.

01:07:21So let's pray.

01:07:46That my mother died as a result of family violence.

01:08:16I didn't think of it that way for so long, because there was this idea that that was just an anomaly in my dad's behaviour, instead of an actual act of family violence, that was also a crime against us, or should have been.

01:08:38That was a really big shift in my thinking.

01:08:46I started working on the research project at Melbourne Uni that aims to improve support and better understand children and young people who have been bereaved by domestic homicide.

01:09:00Acting in the best interests of the child is seen as secondary to ensuring that the accused gets a fair trial, but also how much are they supported to have agency.

01:09:11So it's not just about having a voice, it's actually that that needs to change.

01:09:14Yeah, this is a bigger issue than probably people have realised.

01:09:17Yeah, totally. Bev is somebody that I interviewed for our research project.

01:09:23I hear a gunshot, and I'm like, what the hell? And I see my mum being shot in the back.

01:09:30And how old were you at this point?

01:09:32I'm 11 at this point.

01:09:33I can't remember how many shots in total, but the final shot was to the head.

01:09:37I still see that image pretty much every day.

01:09:40Yeah.

01:09:41How do we heal from this experience? Do we ever really heal?

01:09:45Where do we stand and what do we have left to do here in this space?

01:09:49Because there is a lot more to be done in this space.

01:09:52And we're going to do it, Bev.

01:09:5752 women a year are dying.

01:10:00These women are mothers, grandmothers, someone's aunt, someone's friend.

01:10:06Where are the voices of those who are left behind?

01:10:11I think that the work that we're doing and what we're fighting for will make a difference to children and young people.

01:10:20Children are primary victims in this situation.

01:10:24Like, it's a direct crime against them as well.

01:10:27The men who commit these crimes are considered intelligent, charming.

01:10:33They might not fit the stereotype of what an abuser looks like.

01:10:36And my dad was those things.

01:10:37I don't have any relationship with him anymore.

01:10:39And I don't, I practice very deliberate non-forgiveness.

01:10:44I don't know my dad now.

01:10:46So I can't really speak to the person he is now.

01:10:49But the further away I get, the more clearly I can see what it's like to be in an abusive relationship.

01:10:57And that was an abusive relationship.

01:11:00So me wanting to come back to him, him to be proud of me and be in his favor.

01:11:05Yes, that's a child wanting that.

01:11:07But that's also somebody who is going through the dynamic of somebody else's push and pull and somebody else's control.

01:11:16I don't have him in my head anymore.

01:11:24So many of the depressive kind of episodes that I've had are around that stuff that I can't change, no matter how much therapy I do.

01:11:34And that's where activism comes into my life, I think.

01:11:38That's where I go, well, I can't just be doing inferior work.

01:11:45I feel like if you're going to live in this world, you have to do something.

01:11:52I love the concept of killjoys, or feminist killjoys specifically.

01:11:58Sarah Ahmed, who is an amazing thinker and writer, and she coined this term.

01:12:08People who are willing to sort of not stay quiet about injustice.

01:12:15But I have been called a killjoy, and I embrace that.

01:12:19I think it's a good thing.

01:12:28I'm not here now as, like, some healed human.

01:12:43It's ongoing.

01:12:46It's always kind of navigating my mental health and experiences and trauma.

01:12:58Being almost 40 now, and realising that my mum only got to 32.

01:13:06For me, my 30s have just been such a huge time of understanding myself, and she didn't really get that time.

01:13:18I think if I could speak to my mum now, I would tell her I loved her.

01:13:28And let her know that my life is, like, so full.

01:13:44I don't just have to tolerate being sort of okay.

01:13:48You know, I'm actually allowed to feel good.

01:13:59I'm in a new place where I feel like I might actually live for a while.

01:14:02I mean, who knows?

01:14:04Who knows what will happen?

01:14:05I mean, who knows what are you doing?

01:14:10I've been doing so.

01:14:10I mean, I feel like I can do it.

01:14:11I'm here to read it.

01:14:15I just won.

01:14:16I mean, I can do it.

01:14:18What is it?

01:14:18I don't know.

01:14:18Oh, my god.

01:14:18I mean, everyone.

01:14:22I microbiome you.

01:14:26I don't know.

01:14:28Oh, my god.

01:14:28My god.

01:14:29What is it?

01:14:30I guess what I like.

01:14:30My god is so funny.

01:14:31It's a funny thing.

01:14:32I don't know.

01:14:33I know.

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