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Ever wonder who’s responsible for bringing your favorite stars to the big screen? Our incredible Casting Directors pull back the curtain on the world of casting. They share what they look...
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00:00Hey everyone, it's Sarah Molesky and welcome back to Real Talk where it gets hot, spicy, and to the drama.
00:05Today is a very special episode because we're going to be interviewing two top casting directors.
00:11They cast big shows, big feature films, and vertical soaps.
00:15So sit back, relax, and get ready to sip some casting tea.
00:30Okay, Chad and Rebecca, firstly, I just have to say I am so excited to just dive into your brains and learn from the iconic casting gurus.
00:51Well, I am very, very happy to be here.
00:53Thank you for having me.
00:54It's very exciting.
00:55Nice to meet you.
00:56Nice to meet you.
00:57This is so cool.
00:59We're all three casting directors, and we actually share something in common.
01:02We are actors, or I was an actor as well.
01:05So it's such a unique experience sort of understanding the casting process from that perspective as well.
01:11Oh, absolutely.
01:12I was an actor also at first as well.
01:13Oh, wow.
01:13Okay, all three of us.
01:15Look at that.
01:15Oh my gosh.
01:16We can share some horror stories.
01:18I'm sure we absolutely can, from horror movie sets, actually.
01:21Actually, yeah, exactly.
01:22There was blood for many reasons.
01:26Why sweat tears?
01:27There's tears.
01:27Every time there's tears.
01:28Come on.
01:29Yes, there is crying in filmmaking, let's be honest.
01:32Absolutely.
01:33Oh my gosh.
01:34So we were all talking about this behind the scenes earlier, but obviously the studio just
01:38came out, and everybody's watching that.
01:40And while watching that, I'm like, this is me.
01:42I'm screaming into my phone at all moments, like, what?
01:45Oh my gosh, what's going on?
01:47Blah, blah, blah.
01:47And it's like, I can't wait to get into how you guys kind of just navigate the stress of
01:53working in film, working as a casting director, being the head of a department, and just what
01:58that really means.
01:59Because I feel like casting directors, one, don't get enough credit.
02:03Two, people don't actually know what we do.
02:05No.
02:05Right?
02:06Totally.
02:06No, they really don't.
02:07And so today, I just want to dive into all of the different routes and roads of what
02:14casting is, what to do, what not to do, and just how to kind of get your foot in the door.
02:19And plus, I went on my own Instagram account and asked all my followers questions that they
02:23want to ask you guys.
02:24So at the end, we can see real people having real questions.
02:27They're real actors.
02:28They're submitting to all your work right now.
02:30So I just can't wait to get into that.
02:32Perfect.
02:33So why don't you guys tell me a little bit about your background?
02:35How did you get into casting?
02:37How did you fall into this department?
02:40That's a great question.
02:41So I have been working in Hollywood for over 20 years.
02:44I did originally start doing acting, but then I moved into production very quickly, producing,
02:50writing.
02:50I've done some directing as well.
02:52And then when it came to casting, originally, a producer friend of mine hired to cast one of
02:56his features, and he was really happy.
02:59And so it just kind of snowballed from there.
03:00He started recommending me to other people, and then I started working for certain streamers and
03:04stuff like that.
03:04And it's been a really great experience, and I'm sure both of you are going to speak on
03:08this as well.
03:09Coming from starting as an actor and then doing this, you have a really, really unique perspective
03:15on how this whole thing worked because very few casting directors in Hollywood have been
03:20on both sides of the camera.
03:21Usually they just start out behind the camera.
03:23You know what I mean?
03:24But we have this whole other perspective of knowing what it's like to have to film that
03:29audition with only 12 hours to turn it in, and you're not off book, and blah, blah, blah,
03:33blah, blah.
03:33You know what I mean?
03:34So I think we're coming at this from a different perspective than most casting directors typically
03:38are.
03:39Wouldn't you say?
03:39Yeah.
03:39It's the empathy and understanding that most casting directors don't have.
03:42And watching an actor sort of go through the process, you kind of understand every step
03:48of the way for them, and we kind of help them along the way.
03:51A lot of times, and this is something that I'm sure we're going to touch on as well, people
03:54are under the assumption that we cast everything.
03:56Like, we make the final call for all the leads, all the supporting actors.
03:59That is not true.
04:01That's not true.
04:01Everybody who's watching this who hates me, I wish I could give you the lead.
04:06I do.
04:07Absolutely.
04:07It's not us.
04:08Right.
04:09I do not get the final.
04:10I mean, I will definitely say, like, this is who I really, really think should be the
04:13lead in your movie.
04:14But at the end of the day, the executive producers and the producers are the ones making those
04:18call, regardless of whether it's a studio, a streamer, a vertical.
04:21Like, we're not the ones making those final decisions.
04:23You know what I mean?
04:24Absolutely.
04:24That's number one that everyone should really, really figure out.
04:28But yeah, it's been, this whole vertical process has been, like, just an incredible thing
04:32to watch happen at this level also.
04:34You know what I mean?
04:34Because we're really at the ground level of watching this entire thing become something
04:37that everyone's watching in the world.
04:39Right.
04:39Well, that actually segues into my next topic, which is great, which is, so you guys come
04:44from traditional casting with what we call the horizontal land.
04:48So features, series, short films, all that kind of thing.
04:53So tell me a little bit about the difference of casting for something like that versus a vertical
04:58soap opera.
04:59Yeah.
04:59I mean, I think one of the biggest things, sort of, I want to start by something that sort
05:04of, like, brings us together.
05:05And that is sort of the quality.
05:06So everybody that works on either vertical or horizontal programs, they want to do the
05:11best job possible.
05:11They want to create the best product possible.
05:14The biggest difference, I think, is sort of the time constraint.
05:17For us, like, back in the day when I was doing scripted and non-scripted, we'd have six months,
05:24six to eight months to find maybe 30 people.
05:27Are you kidding?
05:28Oh, yeah, yeah.
05:29And we would travel.
05:31We would, I mean, there was a lot involved.
05:33And for verticals, you know, a lot of that time is condensed.
05:38And, you know, it's, I love that challenge, though.
05:40So what came from six months to eight months is now two weeks, two and a half weeks, if
05:47you're lucky.
05:47One of the things that actors hopefully understand is that we want you guys to get the job.
05:53We want to be able to look at that first tape and be like, yes, and be able to pitch
05:56that up to the writers, to the producers, to the executive producers.
05:59So we're always rooting for you.
06:02It's just, you know, it's getting that, getting yourself to that point and getting the tapes
06:07ready and everything else to be able to get us to, to get you to that point.
06:10Yes, well said.
06:11Yeah, we are on your side, actors, truly.
06:13Like, we're all on the same team.
06:15We want you to do the best job that you possibly can.
06:18And going to back to what you said, going back to what you said originally, it is a great
06:22feeling when you have pushed really hard for someone to be a lead and then you show
06:25up to set and they're killing it, especially if like the producers were like, I don't know
06:28if this is the right lead, but you like push, push, push, and they believe you.
06:31And then you get in there and they're like, great, we love them.
06:33They're perfect.
06:34And you're like, is it like it's so satisfying when that happens?
06:37There's nothing better.
06:38On the other side, we all know that that doesn't happen a lot.
06:40Like we'll push some for someone really, really hard.
06:42And there's some producer that's like, well, no, so-and-so really likes that.
06:46She's a redhead.
06:47So we're just going to go.
06:48And you're like, okay, I guess that's how we're making this casting call.
06:51You know what I mean?
06:51But that is unfortunately how it works.
06:53What would you say are some little tips and tricks of the trade?
06:58Just big yeses, big no-nos about some self-tapes that you guys have been seeing, at least just
07:03talking about verticals right now.
07:05Yeah.
07:06I mean, I think, you know, getting your reels on point is super helpful.
07:10Like we do not have all the time in the world.
07:12So typically what I do is when I look at a reel, I'm probably making up my mind in the first
07:18maybe 15 to 20 seconds of that reel.
07:21So one of the things I've noticed that actors do, and it comes from a good place, but when
07:27they've signed up for a casting portal like Casting Networks, Breakdown Express, Backstage,
07:32and they post 13 or 14 videos of them, and one of them's like in a group of 13 other actors,
07:38and I'm trying to figure out who you are.
07:41I'm trying to sort of understand your ability.
07:43Obviously, it's a little, it's not the most helpful.
07:47So what I would suggest is pick three or four just, you know, great videos that sort of
07:51focus on you and your ability.
07:54And one of the things we were talking about earlier is, you know, you don't have to spend
07:58a lot of money on these self-tapes or on these reels, excuse me.
08:02Oh, God, yeah.
08:02You know, all you need, and that's the great thing about verticals, you don't need an agent,
08:05you don't need a manager.
08:07All you need is a phone, a monologue, and your acting ability, and that will get you through
08:12the door.
08:13So that's what I'd love to see.
08:15I'd love to see a reel that is to the point that showcases and focuses on that actor and
08:21their ability.
08:23And, you know, some people are great at comedy, some people are great at drama, some people
08:28are great at both.
08:29Find out what you're really great at, hone in on that, and then get us a couple of tapes
08:34that sort of match that, and you're good to go.
08:36Right.
08:37Yeah, absolutely.
08:37And also get really honest with yourself as to exactly what kind of type you are as
08:42an actor, you know what I mean?
08:44Because we all have, obviously, we all have different looks, you know what I mean?
08:48But certain people, like, for example, the project that I'm casting right now, they're
08:51supposed to be a high school bully, you know what I mean?
08:53And there's just certain guys, even though I'm sure they're very nice in real life, but
08:57they emulate high school bully, you know what I mean?
09:00And there's obviously some of those actors that get that because they took headshots that look
09:04like they're the highest, so it's like they get it, but you want to know what your type
09:07is when you submit yourself for something, because a lot of times actors submit themselves
09:11for roles, and it's like, you are definitely not this type, you know what I mean?
09:15So you need to get really honest with yourself, because that is part of being a working actor
09:19wherever you are in the world, is you have to know how the casting people, how the producers
09:23are going to perceive you when you go into that audition.
09:26Honestly, I feel like there needs to be a lot of self-awareness as an actor with what you're
09:31talking about, with even like knowing what roles you fit, and even if it's a hard pill
09:36to swallow and you might want something different, like what's going to get you on set, what's
09:41going to get you in a callback at least, and even self-awareness with how you interact with
09:46casting, how you email, how you're, if you're in the casting director's DM slash phone slash
09:52calling their mom, being like, hey, did you get my tape, blah, blah, blah.
09:55It's like, we got your tape, honey.
09:57Like, you know, it's kind of like, just read the room a little bit and like back up sometimes,
10:03but know when to drop a cute little hint to the casting director.
10:06It's very nuanced.
10:07And I feel like it's a big skill that people, actors need to kind of get sometimes more.
10:14Sure.
10:14Yeah.
10:15A lot of it comes to like, just how, you know, when you work, you're going to pick up
10:18these skills, you know, the more you do something, the better you get at it, obviously.
10:21But yeah, you definitely want to learn how to read the room, read the producers, read the
10:26casting, you know what I mean?
10:26Because you don't want to be annoying to people and, you know, bother them after they've been
10:31like, we're still casting.
10:32I don't have an answer for you yet.
10:33You don't want to email them 20 more times in the next 24 hours.
10:36Oh my God.
10:36Did you make a decision?
10:37Did you make a decision?
10:38You know what I mean?
10:38And I understand that you really want to know if you booked it, but you can't make people
10:41crazy in the meantime.
10:43Sure.
10:43And that's, and if, you know, if we're afforded our space as casting directors, the one thing
10:47I love to do, especially if I bring somebody in for a self tape or for a callback or for
10:51a chemistry read, I love to sort of talk with them afterwards and just say, Hey, listen,
10:56like this is, this is what worked.
10:58This is what didn't.
10:59I think that feedback is, is incredibly important, which is why this is so great because now
11:05we're able to sort of get the, get the word out and the, you know, the everything else
11:08for the, for the actors.
11:09They move very, very fast.
11:11Like you were saying, traditionally, like in, in features that are horizontal, you have
11:14months of pre-production.
11:16So there's months of like just the initial casting process and then there'll be callbacks and
11:21then a new producer will come in and be like, I don't like any of these people for this
11:24role.
11:24Start from scratch.
11:26You know what I mean?
11:27But in verticals, we do not have that luxury.
11:28It's like, we start in three weeks.
11:30So by the end of next week, I need to have all my supporting roles locked.
11:33And you're like, okay, let's get to work.
11:35You know what I mean?
11:36God, it sounds good.
11:36Yeah.
11:37Yeah.
11:37There's not that time.
11:38Like, so it's like, you really need to know exactly what types they're looking for when
11:42it comes to verticals.
11:43Like be really, really clear and make sure you've spoken to the director and the producers and you
11:47know really what type that they're looking for.
11:49Cause you don't have time to be like, let me give you all these options of things that
11:53I feel that, you know what I mean?
11:54It's like, no, we need to cast this stat.
11:55So absolutely.
11:57I think one of the things I love to do is if I've worked with an actor 10 years ago on
12:02something that's completely different than, you know, what I'm doing now, I will have
12:06that person in the back of my mind because one, they did a fantastic job too.
12:10They had a great personality three, they were punctual.
12:13So all those things I think are critical, but getting yourself out there doing that tape,
12:17even if it's not going to be this vertical or the next three, the next four, you putting
12:22that tape in and you getting seen in front of the executives, in front of the writer,
12:27these people may not be here forever.
12:28They may go off and do other things.
12:30They may go off and work for Netflix.
12:31They may go off and work for NBC, which is the last company that I worked for.
12:36They will remember you.
12:38So think about it sort of broad strokes, big terms.
12:41Because doing this tape could lead to a hundred different other things.
12:45I'll tell you a really quick story.
12:46I had a background actor that I did for one of these verticals for real short.
12:50Absolutely love the guy.
12:52Great look, great personality.
12:54I had the opportunity to bring him in as a lead for the next vertical because he was
12:59so cool and was so gung-ho and so nice.
13:01I brought him in.
13:02He tested, did really well.
13:05And it looks like he may actually get the job.
13:07So you never know whether it's a background actor or a day player, you know, a small supporting,
13:13main supporting.
13:14It can always, always, always lead to something.
13:17Always lead to something.
13:18And people like to work with people that they have worked with before and had a good experience
13:22with.
13:22You know what I mean?
13:23Like if you know that an actor is going to show up on time, know their lines, hit their
13:26mark.
13:27Yes.
13:27Right?
13:28Yes.
13:28Like it's really easy to want to call that person in again.
13:31However, if you book someone and they act like a total diva and they email you a billion
13:36times and they're unhappy with everything, you better believe I am never going to call
13:39that person in again to read because I don't have time for that.
13:43And to go back to timely auditions, just so you know, when you get that audition actor,
13:47I would definitely film it as quickly as possible and get it to producers.
13:51Because for example, I'm casting something right now.
13:54I gave actors for a specific role.
13:56I told them they had until this Friday to submit tape.
13:59So we've been getting a lot of tapes.
14:00Guess what?
14:01As of this morning, producers already decided that they want someone specifically.
14:04They already saw a tape that they like.
14:06So it's like everyone else is going to send me tapes for the rest of the week.
14:08It doesn't matter because they made their decision this morning because that actress
14:12got it into me fast.
14:13You know what I mean?
14:13Like that is truly how it works.
14:15You need to get your audition in before producers are going to find someone that they really
14:19like because then it's over.
14:20You know, this is so true.
14:23This is so true.
14:24I actually want to talk about something that I've experienced with booking some day players.
14:31So I've had some day players with management who are like, the management is fighting tooth
14:36and nail for that 20%.
14:38And I get it.
14:38You know, that's their job, whatever.
14:40But we can't give them 20% on a day player rate.
14:44It's just not possible.
14:45Like they're on for three days.
14:46Maybe they're making 250 bucks, whatever.
14:49That's still a way to get your client on set to meet all these other actors, to meet all
14:54these other people.
14:55You never know who they're going to meet.
14:56But then sometimes the managers do a disservice for the actors.
15:00And I don't know about you guys, if it's just verticals, this is a question from my heart.
15:04Some of the managers and agencies are beyond mean and disrespectful.
15:08And they like hate the, the, the space.
15:11They think it's trash.
15:12They, the way that they talk is derogatory or they're unprofessional.
15:16And I'm like, I mean, I'm a manager as well.
15:19So I want to speak on this as someone that's also a manager.
15:22I don't, so I, I don't feel that way.
15:24I mean, obviously verticals are new.
15:26Okay.
15:26So we've been managers before verticals became something in the mainstream zeitgeist.
15:30Right.
15:30I do know, I, I have had that being a casting director.
15:33I have had these agents and managers.
15:36Yeah.
15:36I'm like, I'm like, hold on there, everyone.
15:39I'm a manager to take a step back.
15:41Okay.
15:41I also like, I mean, and this is true.
15:44Hollywood is the craziest right now it's ever been since I've been here.
15:47There's very little mainstream work.
15:48And so I think we're seeing a lot of desperation from agents and managers who are like their,
15:54their earnings are down like 80% from where they were in the past couple of years.
15:58And so they're desperate even to make that $25 commission that they're going to get from
16:01this.
16:02Right.
16:03It's like, no one has any money.
16:04And so I feel like in a different time in Hollywood history, we wouldn't maybe see that level of
16:08aggression with the agents and the managers, but we are definitely seeing, I'm seeing it
16:13now and I'm, I know you're seeing it now, but yeah, cause it's just, cause there's not
16:16any work they're like, I need my clients to be working.
16:19Right.
16:19Right.
16:20I think the sooner agents and managers and actors come to the realization that this is
16:25ground floor, like verticals are ground floor right now.
16:29And the quicker you jump on board to what is going to be an inevitability, the better it
16:36is for everybody.
16:36Right.
16:37So I've, I've spoken to a lot of actors that, that were traditionally and exclusively horizontal,
16:43like, like soap opera stars, like people that have done good bodies of work that are
16:48now looking at verticals as, as, as a, a way to continue acting, continue making money,
16:54continue getting reels.
16:56Um, you know, and that's, it's just, it, it, it is such a, a, a unique experience from
17:01a casting director's perspective to sort of be in this world as it's just starting and
17:06to watch these actors sort of grow and flourish within this and just know where it's going
17:11to end up.
17:12Right.
17:12Yeah.
17:13I mean, it is, it is the future and it's really exciting to be witnessing it at this
17:17ground level.
17:17I mean, I talk about this all the time, but yeah, we are seeing, um, agents and managers
17:22that have been in the business for over 30 years and they're fighting the verticals tooth
17:26and nail.
17:26They think it's a fad.
17:27And I tell them all the time, I'm like, follow the money.
17:30These companies are making billions of dollars.
17:32These aren't going anywhere.
17:33So you better jump on board now.
17:35You know what I mean?
17:36Right.
17:36Fighting this is not going to do anything for anyone.
17:39And the other thing is these actors are getting paid.
17:41Well, you know what I mean?
17:43Like this is not, I mean, I don't know about you, but back way back in the day when I first
17:47moved to LA, like the, like the asylum who does horror movies, I don't know what you're
17:50talking about.
17:51Yeah.
17:51They were paying $25 a day.
17:53Okay.
17:54A day for actors to act in those movies way back in the day.
17:57It's two 50 now.
17:58Right.
17:59Exactly.
17:59For every role.
18:00And I mean, SAG scale, I believe is two 50 for like, I think so.
18:04Yeah.
18:04So it's like, I don't know what people are complaining about, you know, people love to
18:09hate on something that's new to them.
18:10And that's, it's easy to call this cringe, right?
18:13I actually did an interview where I was talking about this, where I have so many friends who
18:16are like, you know, highbrow.
18:17And they're like, I would never do that.
18:19Like, I wouldn't want that on my IMDb.
18:20And I'm like, sis, you haven't done anything except a dog collar commercial.
18:24And you did an age 24, six years ago.
18:26Correct.
18:26Like, I'm sorry.
18:28Like I got to pay rent.
18:30There's nothing cringy about paying your bills.
18:32There's nothing cringy about meeting cool people, going on set, doing the thing.
18:36Like these are fun.
18:38It's fun to be soapy.
18:39Every actor's dream.
18:40People love them.
18:41That's the thing.
18:42People love to watch these.
18:43They are bringing people joy.
18:44They find them entertaining.
18:46Yeah.
18:46There's no wrong way to be entertained.
18:48If you like to be entertained.
18:49You know what I mean?
18:50Because yes, I have these conversations all the time too.
18:52We've had clients be like, I don't do vertical.
18:54Right.
18:54I'm like, well, okay.
18:55Have fun missing out on what everything is going to be in the next five years.
18:58You know what I mean?
18:59Absolutely.
19:00Because it is what it is.
19:01Okay.
19:01So I think there's a lot more to talk about, but let's play a game.
19:04All right.
19:04I love games.
19:05Me too.
19:07Okay, guys.
19:08So I'm going to read you some statements and you'll tell me if it's fact or fiction.
19:12All right.
19:12Let's do it.
19:13Okay.
19:13So first off the bat, we have casting directors have the final say on who gets cast.
19:21100%.
19:21I mean, we will give them our top options, but when it comes to being like, this is the
19:25one, yeah, we're not the one making that call.
19:27Next question.
19:28Casting directors don't watch self-tape auditions.
19:33We watch them all and we watch them specifically so that if we need you to shoot it again, we
19:38can give you points, tips, and tricks.
19:40Next question.
19:41Big stars like Leonardo DiCaprio never have to audition.
19:45You heard it.
19:49You have to audition.
19:50You're not above auditioning.
19:52Next question.
19:54Some actors pretend to have accents or special skills to book roles.
19:58Absolutely.
19:59Oh, yeah.
20:00Been there, done that.
20:00If your tape doesn't get chosen, it's probably because you weren't good enough.
20:07Damn.
20:07Okay, that wraps up the game.
20:13Oh, wow.
20:14There you go.
20:16Okay, guys.
20:17So I want to talk about some casting horror stories, whether the actor, once they're already
20:22booked and on set or even like a really weird audition process or like terrible emailing
20:27skills or something.
20:28So can you guys tell me some of your worst horror stories?
20:33We're both looking at each other.
20:34I know, right?
20:35I mean, there's, so here's a fun one.
20:39I was casting a horror movie and we cast the lead actor.
20:42Everyone's super happy.
20:44Day one rolls around.
20:45I can't remember exactly why I was on set for day one, but I was.
20:49So, you know, an hour goes by.
20:52The lead actor isn't there.
20:53Hour two goes by.
20:54They're not there.
20:55They're not answering the phone.
20:56They're not answering.
20:56No one knows what's going on.
20:57And everyone's panic, panic, panic, right?
20:59So it just so happened that one of the director's friends was there that happened to also be
21:03right for this role.
21:04And the director was like, you know, F it.
21:06We're just going to plug in this guy.
21:08He's here.
21:08I don't know where this guy is.
21:09No one can get a hold of him.
21:10So, of course, the guy that I cast rolls in two and a half hours late.
21:13They're like, oh, my God, my alarm didn't go off.
21:15I'm so sorry.
21:16My phone died.
21:17Like all of the things that they always say.
21:19And I'm like, bad news, buddy.
21:21They recast the movie because you weren't here and it's day one and they had the availability to
21:25do it.
21:26And he totally freaked out.
21:27He got really mad at me.
21:28He got really mad at everyone.
21:29I'm like, you cannot be late on set.
21:32You cannot be late.
21:33There are too many people here working.
21:35There are too many people to put too much effort into this day one to make this happen.
21:39You cannot get mad at me or anyone else.
21:41I'm sorry that your alarm didn't go off.
21:43I'm sorry that your phone died.
21:44But you cannot be late.
21:47You need to have yourself together.
21:49You know what I mean?
21:49Like a little bit.
21:50Jeez.
21:51I know.
21:52I mean, yeah.
21:53There's a plan B, C, and D for situations like that that we always prepare for.
21:58Punctuality is such an important thing for an actor.
22:00It's like the basic.
22:01Just get to work.
22:02Right.
22:02Get to work and know your lines.
22:04That's really...
22:05Those are the basics.
22:06Yes.
22:06Yes.
22:07Yeah.
22:07If you've had three or four days with the full script and you show up to set and you're
22:12constantly asking the director for the line, then that's like...
22:16It's like embarrassing too.
22:17Yeah.
22:17Just learn.
22:19Yeah.
22:19Learn the script.
22:20Learn the craft.
22:20Show up on time.
22:22I know.
22:23I've got an insane...
22:24Oh, yeah.
22:25Let's hear it.
22:25Let's hear it.
22:26This one was nuts even for me.
22:27So I was casting a major network show and I'd found a couple of day players and it was a
22:35scene where they were in a club and what I didn't realize at the time was that there
22:41were two actresses that knew each other but did not like each other.
22:45Oh, classic.
22:46Did not like each other.
22:47Drama.
22:48Well, did not like each other so much.
22:50I was on set and I was actually watching them.
22:53We stopped down and they were like, what school did you go to?
22:56And there was a little bit of communication back and forth and they got closer and closer
23:00to each other and I was like, oh, no.
23:02So one of them threw a punch.
23:05Oh, my.
23:06And I had to get in between them, separate them.
23:10Oh.
23:11Yeah.
23:12I mean, there's...
23:12Wow.
23:13Yeah.
23:13That's...
23:14This was...
23:15So TV...
23:16That's a good one.
23:17TV was the Wild West where there was no format that was too crazy.
23:22And so, yeah.
23:23It was two actresses that knew each other from high school that didn't like each other.
23:27One of them stole the other one's boyfriend and that's why we knew each other.
23:30It happened.
23:30And they did not let it go and it sort of all culminated on set.
23:33It was just the craziest thing.
23:35The odds of them both being in the same movie and not even being in a show were so crazy.
23:38I know.
23:38I know.
23:38Crazy.
23:39I mean, that's hilarious.
23:40Was anybody else like, wow, we should like film this part of this?
23:44This is the show.
23:44Yeah.
23:45This is the BTS.
23:46I mean, no.
23:47Thankfully, I sort of caught it before it sort of got too big.
23:51But yeah, it was...
23:52It's...
23:52Yeah.
23:53That's so funny.
23:54You were like on set mommy, like separating your kids.
23:57Yes.
23:57Oh, yes.
23:58Yes.
23:59Oh, my gosh.
24:00Cats directors are moms and dads.
24:01It actually is.
24:02They really are.
24:03It really is like that.
24:04And I think it's because maybe actor background and just caring, nurturing.
24:09Like, I always try so hard to be with all of my actors from number one to the last background
24:15actor and just make sure they're comfortable, make sure they're getting paid, make sure any
24:20questions they have get answered because I understand them and I really want them to
24:24just feel taken care of.
24:25And it breaks my heart because sometimes, you know, production can be crazy and there
24:29might not be food for them and they're freaking out about that.
24:31And like, I don't know, I just really try to be a calming mom to all of them, you know?
24:38Yeah.
24:39I think being a voice for actors when they're on set and the director and the producer
24:42are incredibly busy doing their own thing is sort of hearing from them at the end of
24:47the day and sort of giving them sort of the comfort and the understanding.
24:50It's like, yeah, you'll be good.
24:51If you have any questions, feel free to ask me.
24:52Like anytime.
24:53Call me.
24:53Text me.
24:54Yeah, for sure.
24:55So I guess my horror stories aren't as wild as yours, but I mean, almost if you honestly,
25:04but that's a hard one to beat.
25:05That is a hard one to beat.
25:06That's kind of iconic too.
25:08So mine are more where, I don't know if you guys experience this, but sometimes in the
25:14vertical space, some actors who have been doing it since they got popular, there are
25:18some egos going on.
25:19And so I know some actors who will direct offer always, and then they're on set.
25:26And then the way that they treat people is absolutely disgusting.
25:29And like this gets back to everyone, everybody.
25:33Everyone's talking about you in these moments.
25:35Yes.
25:36And it's, it's really something that grinds my gears more than anything is when you're
25:42disrespectful to PAs, makeup artists, all these things.
25:44So I have some people who there's one person that comes to my brain where they, um, they
25:51just will like throw this one story.
25:53Just it makes my blood boil.
25:55They were getting their makeup done and they were eating Rice Krispie treats and they were
25:58throwing the Rice Krispie wrappers on the floor in the makeup chair.
26:01And then the makeup artist, who's one of my best friends, literally was like, Oh, like,
26:07did you like leave that?
26:08And they were like, Oh no, like you can clean it.
26:11Oh, you're joking.
26:11And all throughout the set, they were just so disrespectful to director.
26:17Even if director would ask them to do something, they'd be like, um, didn't you get it in the
26:21last shot?
26:23Don't know their lines, read the scene right before.
26:26And I'm just like, I personally won't cast them in anything.
26:29Even when client asks for them, that's one thing I'm like, guys, I'm not going to cast
26:32them because I have so many people who they've disrespected that are close personal friends
26:37of mine.
26:37And here's another classic note for you actors.
26:41You never know who these people are and who they're going to be.
26:44So that makeup artist could be married to the head of a studio.
26:49Or that makeup artist could write a script, get it sold and remember you.
26:55These people, we remember everything.
26:57Everything.
26:57You may not think we do, especially sort of the bad behavior, the punctuality.
27:01We remember that.
27:02But conversely, the person that comes on set, that's awesome to be with, that's fun, that's
27:07joking around, that's on time.
27:08We remember that equally.
27:10And those are the people we call in.
27:12But yeah, you never know.
27:13That PA could get an overall deal at Netflix.
27:17Oh, yeah.
27:18And you will never work for that person.
27:21Ever.
27:21Ever.
27:22Honestly, I feel like a lot of us can learn from this.
27:25Just be a good person and it'll get you more in life.
27:28Also, one note I want to add is sometimes when, for me, I'll reach out to talent that
27:35maybe has been a lead or number two or three.
27:38And I'm like, hey, do you by chance have any availability?
27:41Are you free?
27:42Would you be down to do a three-day player?
27:44It's a really fun role.
27:45I know it's not lead, but it's still fun.
27:47If they're down and they do that, I remember that.
27:50And I'm like, they're the s***.
27:52They're such a good actor.
27:53They're helping me.
27:54And I love it.
27:56There's nothing I love more when there's an actor without an ego that's like, yeah,
27:59I'm actually available.
28:00Like, I'd love to go in and work and make a friend or something.
28:04Smart actors don't have egos because they know how the business works.
28:07You cannot have an ego and work all the time, really, because no one wants to work with
28:12you.
28:12Well, also, our industry is so volatile for every department, whether it's ours, actors,
28:18the camera, director, whatever it is.
28:21Because you could be the busiest person for a year and every vertical, like back to back
28:26to back.
28:26And then it's like, okay, we got over you and you're not on set again.
28:30And then people are left with that Rice Krispie on the floor.
28:34Yeah.
28:34And like, I remember that.
28:36I'm like, I will not.
28:37Your career has become that rapper on the floor.
28:40Yeah, it is.
28:40You're a Rice Krispie.
28:41Yeah.
28:42There's nothing left in there.
28:44There's some old ants in there now that are eating, licking it.
28:47Okay.
28:47Right.
28:48Oh, man.
28:50Okay.
28:50So anyway, I think we should talk about some advice for vertical talent, whether you're
28:54a heavy hitter in the verticals or if you're green and starting out.
28:59So what are some habits or skills that you see successful actors who book both vertical
29:04and major studio roles have?
29:07What's something in common that they share?
29:10That they're going back to always being prepared, always knowing their lines, always being a professional,
29:16right?
29:16Always delivering.
29:19Yeah.
29:20It truly, I mean, if you can knock it out of the park doing a vertical, everyone's going
29:25to notice.
29:26Truly.
29:26If you are in a vertical that's very successful and you do a great job and you are, you know,
29:30you do justice to the role that's been written for you, people will take notice.
29:35Period.
29:36Yeah, I think respecting the script, respecting the process and giving it your all, whether
29:43it's a vertical or a series on Netflix, treating everything with the respect and the knowledge
29:49that these writers spent a ton of time on this.
29:52The director spent two weeks scouting.
29:54So this is, it's a, it's a much bigger thing than, than just the actor.
29:58And I think for the actor to understand that and appreciate that and give, give each role
30:03the respect it deserves.
30:04I think those are, those are two things that are, are sort of identical between sort of
30:08the, the horizontal world and the vertical.
30:11What would you say to some actors who, I don't know if you experience this, I do because I'm
30:16on set with them a lot as an actor with them.
30:19And sometimes they don't know that I'm a casting director or I cast it, um, which is
30:22iconic.
30:23It's honestly, I love it.
30:24Like an undercover agent.
30:25No, I really am.
30:27And I love it.
30:27Cause I'm sometimes like, I'm basically the client on set.
30:30So then even like, also I do have to say people like me so much more than that.
30:34I'm a casting director.
30:35I have so many more friends, so many more likes on my photos, gifts, you know, I'm like,
30:41all right, you know, my gifts.
30:43I would love some gifts.
30:45Right.
30:45Right.
30:46Um, but I notice a lot of actors, especially kind of heavy hitters who've been doing it
30:53for a long time, kind of hate it, or they're kind of just like talking down on it, or they're
30:59just like, wait, they're just, they know that this is a, uh, temporary thing and they really
31:03want to do like the big show.
31:05Like their dream is to be on horizontal, be on a series and whatnot.
31:08But what would you say to some of those people who just like kind of talk down on it and they
31:13don't like it?
31:14I think it's great to have those aspirations.
31:17There's nothing wrong with shooting for the moon, but sort of understand that it's a process,
31:21right?
31:22You're going to have to go through the motions, you know, trial and error.
31:26Um, I think just, yeah, you know, it's great to have that, that goal, but understand and
31:31appreciate where you are.
31:33Yeah.
31:33If you're working in this industry at all, it's a gift.
31:35God, especially now.
31:37Yeah, it's true.
31:37It's true.
31:38It is a gift.
31:39Yes.
31:40Uh, understand and appreciate that gift because you know, the more you're working, somebody
31:46else isn't.
31:46Right?
31:47Right.
31:47Oh, that's wait.
31:48Say it one more time.
31:49Yeah.
31:49So the more you're working, the other person, the other person.
31:52Oh, that's beautiful.
31:54Yeah.
31:55I mean, it's just be, be grateful because there's a lot of actors.
31:59I mean, it's just, it's, it's a challenging industry.
32:02Yeah.
32:02Really, really, especially now.
32:04Exactly.
32:05Especially now.
32:06This is the craziest time in Hollywood ever.
32:09So many things are changing.
32:10Like ask anyone, ask anyone that's been an agent for 50 years at the top agencies.
32:14Everyone will tell you that right now, Hollywood is honestly the most difficult it's ever been
32:20to work.
32:20There's just not any work.
32:22It's a weird time with everything going on in the world.
32:24So like you said, yes, anyone that's working in any capacity in Hollywood, you are so lucky
32:29because there's not enough work to go around right now.
32:33You know what I mean?
32:34So yes, gratitude is a big part of all of this.
32:38For sure.
32:38For sure.
32:39That's beautiful.
32:41What should vertical talent take more seriously if they want to grow?
32:44What should they take more seriously?
32:47Well, I think it goes back to you talking about how some actors feel that it's beneath
32:50them.
32:51You know what I mean?
32:51Yeah.
32:51I get it.
32:52Like we all want to be in Tarantino's last movie.
32:54Okay.
32:54Like I totally, totally get it.
32:58But at the same time, these vertical shorts are real sets with real budgets.
33:03Everyone working on them is such a professional, especially because there's so little work on
33:08big budget things.
33:09They're hiring people that have these incredible, incredible credits to work on these vertical
33:14shorts right now.
33:15You know what I mean?
33:16So it's like, just do the work, do the best work you can.
33:19You're going to get incredible footage for your reel doing this.
33:22Like you're not going to get footage like this anywhere else for your reel.
33:26Just knock it out of the park and people will take notice.
33:30Yeah.
33:30I think that there's a huge misconception, especially with the actors just sort of dipping
33:34their toe into verticals.
33:35And this is what sets real short apart is there's a budget for us.
33:40We treat our actors well.
33:42It's a fun environment.
33:44And one of the best things that's happened to me consistently over every show that I've
33:47cast for this company is I will get the nicest emails and the nicest text messages from actors
33:53saying, I had such a blast.
33:55This director was so much fun.
33:57This was such a great experience.
33:58I cannot wait to do more.
34:00And, you know, people tend to, actors tend to sort of group all vertical companies together.
34:05They do.
34:06And that is not the case in any way, shape or form.
34:09I have heard horror stories from actors that I've cast for reel show productions that have
34:12told me about the other companies that they've worked for.
34:15And it is, it's night and day.
34:18It's night and day.
34:19So, you know, sort of understand, you know, kind of understand, you know, what these different
34:23companies are and what they offer.
34:25And, you know, it's, it's definitely, if you're thinking about it, dip your toe in, do it, get
34:30the, get the reel done and, and start auditioning.
34:33I had this thought the other day.
34:36Um, I was, uh, um, what movie came on the intern that movie came on.
34:42I was like, I'm going to watch this.
34:42And it was basically a vertical.
34:44And I was thinking so many people hate on the verticals.
34:48Like a lot of actors do that do them.
34:49Um, honestly, a lot of stuff that's professional is the same vibe.
34:55Okay.
34:55Can we talk about in just like that is literally a vertical short at this point?
34:58Oh my God.
34:58No, it is.
35:00It is.
35:01No, it, it actually fully is.
35:03And I'm, I'm a fan of the show.
35:04I watch it.
35:05I love it.
35:05Me too.
35:05My husband and I were watching it.
35:07I'm obsessed.
35:07We were both like, this is a vertical short.
35:09Yeah.
35:09This is what it is.
35:10Yeah.
35:10The more I, the more I, uh, cast and act in verticals and then the more, uh, shows and,
35:16and movies that I watch, I'm like, they're very similar.
35:18So I don't think we should hate on them.
35:20I think we should be like, it's just another like leg of that in a way.
35:25Yes.
35:25It's just a different thing.
35:26And you know, I always, some of my husband was having a meeting with someone the other
35:30day and I was eavesdropping, but I heard him talking about, um, but this producer was
35:36saying like, look, when talkies became a thing, you know, when silent films just started,
35:39everyone was like, this is the end of Hollywood.
35:42No one wants to listen to movies with sound.
35:44And then when television became a thing in the 1950s, everyone was like, this is going to
35:47ruin movie theaters.
35:48No one's going to want to go to a movie theater because of television.
35:50This is just another one of these.
35:51Cause now the conversation is like, these verticals are ruining Hollywood.
35:55No one's going to want it.
35:56You know what I mean?
35:56So it's like, there's always, anytime there's a new form and artistic form in film that happens,
36:01everyone's like, Oh, well, this is the end.
36:03Right.
36:03This is, you know, this is the end of Hollywood.
36:05Yeah.
36:05It's an evolution.
36:06It really is.
36:07It's just the evolution of what's come before.
36:10Also, the fans of vertical content are different than even like Euphoria or just like us, like
36:17all these shows.
36:18Like the fans are diehards.
36:19The amount of people in my DMs who are like, I will live and breathe for you.
36:23So like, I'm like, that's a beautiful thing that you can experience with another person
36:29that just watches your work.
36:31Yeah.
36:31Oh God.
36:31I love it.
36:32Where do you see casting evolving in the next three to five years with verticals, this
36:37type of content, the Mobi-sodes?
36:40Do you think that, I mean, this is a big question too.
36:42It's like, do we think that Hollywood is going to go back to standard, what we're used to
36:49and what people are craving and missing?
36:51Or do we think that it's going to be, this is the new way?
36:54I think it's going to be both.
36:55I think somehow the future is going to somehow be what's happening with verticals and also mainstream
37:00stuff because there's, there is a market for both.
37:03You know what I mean?
37:03We know that generationally, there's a generational gap between the people that like to watch
37:07verticals and the people that like to watch those that are 30 minutes to an hour.
37:10Right.
37:10And those age groups aren't that far apart.
37:12So it's like, there's always going to be a market for those half hour, hour long sitcoms,
37:17dramas.
37:18But at the same time, these are coming so fast and they're so popular.
37:22I do feel like the future is somehow going to be integrating these in a way.
37:26I don't know if that means maybe they will make things in a way that they can be watched
37:29in 60 second increments as well as in an hour long.
37:33Like you can choose which way you want to watch it.
37:35You know what I mean?
37:36Like, I don't know.
37:37We'll see how it's going to work.
37:38Right.
37:38Right.
37:39And what do you think?
37:40Yeah.
37:40No, I mean, actually hearing that, I 100% agree with her.
37:43I think there's, there's a world in which they coexist peacefully and intertwined at certain
37:49points.
37:50Yeah.
37:51I think, I think once everybody sort of figures out where this is and where it's going,
37:56because we're all sort of figuring this out because it's brand new, you know, I think,
38:00I think it's, I think it could very easily go hand in hand.
38:03I mean, the, the, the horizontal world, like you said, is, is, is in such influx right now
38:08or is in such flux right now.
38:09Um, you know, it's, everything's downsizing.
38:11Everybody's trying to figure out what it is.
38:12And this is sort of rising from, from the very beginning.
38:15Yeah.
38:16Yeah.
38:16I think, I think they'll find a way to, to coexist.
38:18Absolutely.
38:19Yeah.
38:19I feel like that's what the future has to be because people know that these are making billions
38:23of dollars and that's what I keep telling people when people are like, ah, this is just
38:26a fad.
38:27I'm like, okay, well, if billions of dollars is just a fad, then that's quite a fad.
38:32Not mad at the fad.
38:33Okay.
38:33I'll take it.
38:35I'll take that fad.
38:35I want that t-shirt.
38:36Not mad at the fad.
38:37Not mad at the fad.
38:38I love it.
38:39Hey.
38:40Right.
38:41For sure.
38:43Okay, guys.
38:44So I went on my Instagram and asked some of my friends, actors, fans, some questions that
38:49they want to ask you.
38:50So I'm going to get my phone and we can do a live Q and A with people.
38:57Somebody asked biggest turnoff from actors while casting.
39:02I think they meant to write the biggest turnoff from casting about actors.
39:07Like what's the biggest turnoff that you guys see when you're casting?
39:10I feel like every casting actor probably has their own sort of massive pet peeve.
39:14Mine is just not being prepared.
39:16I would say mine is when an actor sends in a tape and you can tell that they had no
39:20desire to do this audition.
39:22Their agent just told them they had to do it.
39:24And they're just sitting there in front of their iPhone, just like not even really trying
39:27and reading their lines.
39:28I'm like, this is a complete waste of my time, of their time, of everyone's time.
39:32You know what I mean?
39:33So that's my pet peeve.
39:34Oh, God.
39:34Yeah.
39:35Just don't do it.
39:35Just say you're on a veil.
39:37I know.
39:38Okay.
39:38This is a nice one too.
39:39What makes an actor really stand out over another actor?
39:44I mean, I guess if there's like a lot of people up for the same role, something that really
39:48stands out is obviously if they are really ready in their performance, if their audition
39:53is really, really tight, if you can tell that they care, that they put effort into their
39:57audition is obviously nice.
39:59Right.
39:59I'll drill down on that.
40:00I think for me, it's in the eyes.
40:02I think when I see an actor perform a scene and I see the emotion in their eyes and I
40:09see where their eyes are directed, I think that's a big plus for me is sort of watching
40:15the scene play out in their eyes.
40:18I think that's, yeah.
40:20I'm piggybacking off this right now.
40:23So, you know, sometimes when you get self-tapes and they're clearly done at a professional place
40:30where an actor paid money to do the self-tape and do the lighting, do the editing, the whole
40:34thing.
40:35What's your opinion on that?
40:37Like, cause people spend a lot of money.
40:39They spend a lot of money.
40:40I mean, we have some clients that are like in their sixties and seventies and like, it's
40:43easier for them to just go somewhere and have them do it because maybe they don't have
40:47like the skills, the computer skills to do it.
40:49So like, I get that.
40:50But at the same time, I've also booked people that are clearly just standing in their apartment,
40:56you know, without any good lighting.
40:58Like if your tape is good, that's all that matters.
41:00You don't have to have this whole professional setup, even though I know sometimes people
41:04say that they prefer it.
41:06I'm sure we've all cast people that have just had no setup and just done it in their apartments.
41:10Honestly, like 99% of the time I'm booking people who don't do that.
41:15Right.
41:16Right.
41:16I don't know.
41:17Same.
41:17You know, casting director, casting doctor, they wrote.
41:21Do you purposely pick previously successful pairs from vertical apps?
41:27That's a good question.
41:28Say that again.
41:28So they're asking if you guys, if there's a successful show, whatever app it is, do you
41:35guys pick the couple from that one to book?
41:40I personally, when it comes to that, I haven't, but I have seen that done where they're like,
41:44this movie did really well.
41:45We want these two to be in this one again.
41:47So like, I personally haven't made that call, but I have seen that call made.
41:51I'm incredibly competitive and I love going out and finding new actors.
41:55So like every once in a while I'll be like, yeah, okay, we'll bring one on.
41:59But I think, you know, it's the, you know, there's a ton of scripts.
42:02It's good to be different.
42:03It's good to sort of mix and match and find new people and bring new people into this industry.
42:07So I have one or two, but I love, I love just going, going to weird places and finding actors
42:15and bringing them in.
42:16Oh my gosh, you guys, thank you so much for being here.
42:22I'm so excited to get to know you.
42:23Now I can call you whenever there's a casting issue and just get, get the tea on everything.
42:29Do you guys have anything else you want to say to some of our actors watching, some of our fans?
42:33Yeah.
42:34I mean, keep watching and get those tapes in.
42:36Like I said, you don't need an agent, don't need a manager, get us those tapes, audition,
42:41and we'd love to get you on the show.
42:43Absolutely.
42:43Yes, you do not.
42:44This is a great time to be an actor because you don't necessarily need an agent or a manager
42:49to get on a vertical.
42:50So yes, work on those auditions, send me your tapes, and hopefully we will see you in the
42:54movies.
42:56Thanks guys.
42:56Bye guys.
42:57See ya.
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