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Ever wonder who’s responsible for bringing your favorite stars to the big screen? Our incredible Casting Directors pull back the curtain on the world of casting. They share what they look...
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00:00Hey everyone, it's Sarah Maliski and welcome back to Real Talk where it gets
00:03hot, spicy, and to the drama. Today is a very special episode because we're gonna
00:08be interviewing two top casting directors. They cast big shows, big feature films,
00:13and vertical soaps. So sit back, relax, and get ready to sip some casting tea.
00:30Okay, Chad and Rebecca. Firstly, I just have to say I am so excited to just dive into your
00:46brains and learn from the iconic casting gurus. Thank you. Well, I am very, very happy to be
00:52here. Thank you for having me. It's very exciting. Nice to meet you. Nice to meet you.
00:56This is, this is so cool. We're all three casting directors and we actually share
01:01something in common. We are actors or were, I was an actor as well. So it's, it's such a
01:05unique experience, uh, sort of understanding the casting process from, from that
01:09perspective as well. Oh, absolutely. I was an actor also at first as well, so all three of us were.
01:13Oh wow, okay, all three of us. Look at that. Oh my gosh. Crazy, crazy. We can share some horror stories.
01:18I'm sure we absolutely can, from horror movie sets actually. Actually, yeah, exactly. There was blood
01:23and for many reasons. Yeah, yes. Absolutely. Tears. Every time there's tears, come on.
01:29Yes, there is crying in filmmaking, let's be honest. Absolutely. Oh my gosh. So we were all
01:34talking about this behind the scenes earlier, but obviously the studio just came out and, you know,
01:39everybody's watching that. And while watching that, I'm like, this is me. I'm screaming into my phone at
01:44all moments like, what? Oh my gosh, what's going on? Blah, blah, blah. And it's like, I can't wait to
01:49get into how you guys kind of just navigate the stress of working in film, working as a casting
01:54director, being the head of a department and just what that really means. Because I feel like casting
02:01directors, one, don't get enough credit. Two, people don't actually know what we do. No. Right?
02:05Totally. No, they really don't. And so today I just want to dive into all of the different
02:11routes and roads of what casting is, what to do, what not to do, and just how to kind of get your
02:18foot in the door. And plus I went on my own Instagram account and asked all my followers
02:22questions that they want to ask you guys. So at the end we can see real people having real questions.
02:27They're real actors. They're, they're submitting to all your work right now. So I just can't wait to
02:31get into that. Perfect. So why don't you guys tell me a little bit about your background? How did you
02:36get into casting? How did you fall into this department? That's a great question. So I have
02:42been working in Hollywood for over 20 years. I did originally start doing acting, but then I moved into
02:48production very quickly, producing, writing. I've done some directing as well. And then when it came
02:52to casting, originally a producer friend of mine hired to cast one of his features and he was really
02:58happy. And so it just kind of snowballed from there. He started recommending me to other people.
03:01And then I started working for certain streamers and stuff like that. And it's been a really great
03:06experience. And I'm sure both of you are going to speak on this as well. Coming from starting as
03:10an actor and then doing this, you have a really, really unique perspective on how this whole thing
03:16worked because very few casting directors in Hollywood have been on both sides of the camera.
03:21Usually they just start out behind the camera. You know what I mean? But we have this whole other
03:25perspective of knowing what it's like to have to, you know, film that audition with only 12 hours to
03:31turn it in and you're not off book and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. You know what I mean?
03:34So I think we're coming at this from a different perspective than most casting directors typically
03:38are. Wouldn't you say? Yeah. It's the empathy and understanding that most casting directors don't
03:42have. And watching an actor sort of go through the process, you kind of understand every step of
03:48the way for them. And you're, and you know, we kind of help them along the way. A lot of times,
03:51and this is something that I'm sure we're going to touch on as well. People are under the
03:54assumption that we cast everything. Like we make the final call for all the leads, all the supporting actors.
03:59That is not true. That's not true. Everybody who's watching this, who hates me,
04:04I wish I could give you the lead. I do. It's not us. Right. I do not get the final. I mean,
04:10I will definitely say like, this is who I really, really think should be the lead in your movie.
04:14But at the end of the day, the executive producers and the producers are the ones making those call,
04:18regardless of whether it's a studio, a streamer, a vertical, like we're not the ones making those final
04:22decisions. You know what I mean? Absolutely. That's number one that everyone should really,
04:26really figure out. But yeah, it's been, this whole vertical process has been like just an
04:31incredible thing to watch happen at this level also. You know what I mean? Because we're really
04:35at the ground level of watching this entire thing become something that everyone's watching in the
04:38world. Right. Well, that actually segues into my next topic, which is great, which is,
04:43so you guys come from traditional casting with what we call the horizontal land. So features, series,
04:51short films, all that kind of thing. So tell me a little bit about the difference of casting for
04:56something like that versus a vertical soap opera. Yeah. I mean, I think one of the biggest things,
05:01sort of the ones I want to start by something that sort of like brings us together, and that is sort
05:05of the quality. So everybody that works on either vertical or horizontal programs, they want to do the
05:11best job possible. They want to create the best product possible. The biggest difference, I think,
05:16is sort of the time constraint. For us, like back in the day when I was doing scripted and non-scripted,
05:22we'd have six months, six to eight months to find maybe 30 people.
05:27Are you kidding? Oh yeah. Yeah. And we would travel. We would, I mean, there was,
05:32there was a lot involved and, and for, for verticals, you know, a lot of that time is condensed. And you
05:38know, it's, it's, I love that challenge though. So what, what got, what came from six months to eight
05:43months is now two weeks, two and a half weeks, if you're lucky. One of the things that, that actors
05:49hopefully understand is that we, we want you guys to get the job. We want to be able to look at that
05:53first tape and be like, yes, and be able to pitch that up to the writers, the producers,
05:58to the executive producers. So we're, we're always rooting for you. Um, it's just, you know, it's, it's
06:03getting that, getting yourself to that point and getting the tapes ready and everything else to be
06:08able to get us to, to get you to that point. Yes. Well said. Yeah. We are on your side,
06:12actors truly like we're all on the same team. We want you to do the best job that you possibly can.
06:17And going to back to what you said, going back to what you said originally, it is a great feeling
06:22when you have pushed really hard for someone to be a lead. And then you show up to set and they're
06:25killing it. Especially if like the producers were like, I don't know if this is the right lead,
06:29but you like push, push, push, and they believe you. And then you get in there and they're like,
06:32great. We love them. They're perfect. And you're like, it's like, it's so satisfying when that happens.
06:37There's nothing better on the other side. We all know that that doesn't happen a lot. Like we'll push
06:41some for someone really, really hard. And there's some producer that's like, well, no,
06:45so-and-so really likes that. She's a redhead. So we're just going to go. And you're like,
06:48okay, I guess that's how we're making this casting call. You know what I mean? But that
06:51is unfortunately how it works. What would you say are some little tips and tricks of the trade?
06:58Just big yeses, big no-nos about some self tapes that you guys have been seeing,
07:02at least just talking about verticals right now. Yeah. I mean, I think, you know,
07:07getting your reels on point is super helpful. Like we do not have all the time in the world.
07:12So typically what I do is when I look at a reel, I'm probably making up my mind in the first maybe
07:1915 to 20 seconds of that reel. So one of the things I've noticed that actors do, and it comes
07:24from a good place, but when they've signed up for a casting portal, like Casting Networks, Breakdown
07:30Express backstage, and they post 13 or 14 videos of them. And one of them is like in a group of 13
07:38other actors. And I'm trying to figure out who you are. I'm trying to sort of understand your
07:42ability. It's not the most helpful. So what I would suggest is pick three or four just, you know,
07:50great videos that sort of focus on you and your ability. And one of the things we were talking
07:55about earlier is, is, you know, you don't have to spend a lot of money on these on these self-tapes
08:00or on these reels. Oh, God, yeah. You know, all you need, and that's the great thing about verticals,
08:04you don't need an agent, you don't need a manager. All you need is a phone, a monologue, and and your
08:10acting ability, and that will get you through the door. So that's what that's what I'd love to see.
08:15I'd love to see I'd love to see a reel that is to the point that showcases and focuses on that actor
08:21and their ability. And, you know, it's, it's, you know, some people are great at comedy,
08:25some people are great at drama, some people are great at both. Find out what you're really great
08:31at, hone in on that, and then get us a couple of tapes that sort of match that, and you're good to
08:36go. Right. Yeah, absolutely. And also get really honest with yourself as to exactly what kind of
08:41type you are as an actor. You know what I mean? Because we all have, obviously, we all have different
08:47looks, you know what I mean? But certain people, like for example, the project that I'm casting
08:51right now, they're supposed to be a high school bully. You know what I mean? And there's just
08:54certain guys, even though I'm sure they're very nice in real life, but they emulate high school
08:58bully. You know what I mean? And there's obviously some of those actors that get that because they
09:03took headshots that look like they're the highest. So it's like, they get it, but you want to know
09:06what your type is when you submit yourself for something, because a lot of times actors submit
09:11themselves for roles and it's like, you are definitely not this type. You know what I mean? So you need to
09:15get really honest with yourself because that is part of being a working actor wherever you are in the
09:20world is you have to know how the casting people, how the producers are going to perceive you when
09:24you go into that audition. Honestly, I feel like there's needs to be a lot of self-awareness as an
09:31actor with what you're talking about, with even like knowing what roles you fit. And even if it's a
09:35hard pill to swallow and you might want something different, like what's going to get you on set,
09:40what's going to get you in a callback at least, and even self-awareness with how you interact with
09:45casting, how you email, how you're, if you're in the casting director's DM slash phone slash
09:53calling their mom being like, Hey, did you get my tape? It's like, we got your tape, honey. Like,
09:57you know, it's kind of like, just read the room a little bit and like back up sometimes,
10:02but know when to drop a cute little hint to the casting director. It's very nuanced. And I feel like
10:08it's a big skill that, um, people, actors need to kind of get sometimes more. Sure. Yeah. A lot of
10:15it comes to like, just how, you know, when you work, you're going to pick up these skills, you
10:18know, the more you do something, the better you get at it, obviously. But yeah, you definitely want
10:22to learn how to read the room, read the producers, read the casting, you know what I mean? Because you
10:26don't want to be annoying to people and, you know, bother them after they've been like, we're still
10:31casting. I don't have an answer for you yet. You don't want to email them 20 more times the next 24 hours.
10:36Oh my God. Did you make a decision? Did you make a decision? You know what I mean? And I
10:38understand that you really want to know if you booked it, but you can't make people crazy in
10:42the meantime. Sure. And that's, and if, you know, if we're afforded our space as casting directors,
10:47the one thing I love to do, especially if I bring somebody in for a self tape or for
10:50a callback or for a chemistry read, I love to sort of talk with them afterwards and just say,
10:56Hey, listen, like, this is, this is what worked. This is what didn't. Um, I think that feedback is,
11:01is incredibly important, uh, which is why this is so great because now we're able to sort of get the
11:06get the word out and the, you know, the everything else for the, for the actors.
11:09They move very, very fast. Like you were saying traditionally, like in,
11:12in features that are horizontal, you have months of pre-production. So there's months of like just
11:18the initial casting process and then there'll be callbacks. And then a new producer will come in
11:22and be like, I don't like any of these people for this role. Start from scratch. You know what I
11:26mean? But in verticals, we do not have that luxury. It's like we start in three weeks. So by the end of
11:30next week, I need to have all my supporting roles locked and you're like, okay, let's get to work.
11:34You know what I mean?
11:35Got it. Sounds good.
11:36Yeah. Yeah. There's not that time. Like, so it's like, you really need to know exactly what types
11:41they're looking for when it comes to verticals, like be really, really clear and make sure you've
11:44spoken to the director and the producers and you know really what type that they're looking for.
11:49Cause you don't have time to be like, let me give you all these options of things that I feel,
11:53you know what I mean? It's like, no, we need to cast this stat. So yeah, absolutely.
11:56I think one of the things I love to do is if I've worked with an actor 10 years ago on something
12:02that's completely different than what I'm doing now, I will have that person in the back of my
12:07mind because one, they did a fantastic job. Two, they had a great personality. Three, they were
12:12punctual. So all of those things I think are critical, but getting yourself out there, doing
12:17that tape, even if it's not going to be this vertical or the next three, the next four, you putting
12:22that tape in and you getting seen in front of the executives, in front of the writer,
12:26these people may not be here forever. They may go off and do other things. They may go off and work
12:30for Netflix, they may go off and work for NBC, which is the last company that I worked for.
12:36They will remember you. So think about it sort of broad strokes, big terms, doing this tape
12:43could lead to a hundred different other things. I'll tell you a really quick story. I had a background
12:47actor that I did for, for one of these verticals for real short. Absolutely love the guy. Great
12:52look, great personality. I had the opportunity to bring him in as a lead for the next vertical
12:57because he was so cool and was so gung ho and so nice. I brought him in, he tested, did really well,
13:04and it looks like he may actually get the job. So you, you never know whether it's a background
13:09actor or a day player, you know, a small supporting main supporting. It can always, always,
13:15always lead to something. Absolutely. People and people like to work with people that they
13:20have worked with before and had a good experience with, you know what I mean? Like if you know that
13:24an actor is going to show up on time, know their lines, hit their mark, right? Like it's really easy
13:29to want to call that person in again. However, if you book someone and they act like a total diva
13:34and they email you a billion times and they're unhappy with everything, you better believe I am never
13:39going to call that person in again to read because I don't have time for that. And to go back to
13:43timely auditions, just so you know, when you get that audition actor, I would definitely film it
13:49as quickly as possible and get it to producers. Because for example, one of I'm, I'm casting
13:53something right now. I gave actors for a specific role. I told them they had until this Friday to
13:58submit tape. So we've been getting a lot of tapes. Guess what? As of this morning, producers already
14:03decided that they want someone specifically. They already saw a tape that they like. So it's like
14:06everyone else that's going to send me tapes for the rest of the week. It doesn't matter because
14:09they made their decision this morning because that actress got it into me fast. You know what I mean?
14:13Like that is truly how it works. You need to get your audition in before producers are going to find
14:18someone that they really like, because then it's over. You know, this is so true. This is so true.
14:23I actually want to talk about something that I've experienced, um, with booking some day players. So
14:31I've had some day players with management who are like, the management is fighting tooth and nail for
14:37that 20%. And I get it, you know, that's their job, whatever, but we can't give them 20% on a day
14:43player rate. It's just not possible. Like they're on for three days. Maybe they're making 250 bucks,
14:48whatever. That's still a way to get your client on set to meet all these other actors, to meet all
14:54these other people. You never know who they're going to meet, but then sometimes the managers
14:58do a disservice for the actors. And I don't know about you guys, if it's just verticals, this is a
15:02question from my heart. Some of the managers and agencies are beyond mean and disrespectful.
15:08And they like hate the, the, the space they think it's trash. They, the way that they talk is
15:13derogatory or they're unprofessional. And I'm like, I mean, I'm a manager as well. So I want to speak
15:19on this as someone that's also a manager. I don't, so I, I don't feel that way. I mean,
15:24obviously verticals are new. Okay. So we've been managers before verticals became something in the
15:29mainstream zeitgeist. Right. I do know. I have had that being a casting director. I have had
15:34these agents and managers. Yeah. I'm like, I'm like, hold on there, everyone. I'm a manager to
15:40take a step back. Okay. I also like, I mean, and this is true. Hollywood is the craziest right now.
15:45It's ever been since I've been here. There's very little mainstream work. And so I think we're seeing
15:50a lot of desperation from agents and managers who are like their, their earnings are down like 80%
15:56from where they were in the past couple of years. And so they're desperate even to make that $25
16:00commission that they're going to get from this. Right. It's like, no one has any money. And so I
16:04feel like in a different time in Hollywood history, we wouldn't maybe see that level of aggression with
16:09the agents and the managers, but we are definitely seeing, I'm seeing it now and I know you're seeing
16:14it now, but yeah, cause it's just cause there's not any work. They're like, I need my clients to be
16:18working. Right. I mean, right. I think the sooner agents and managers and actors come to the realization
16:24that this is ground floor, like verticals are ground floor right now. And the quicker you jump
16:31on board to what is going to be an inevitability, the, the, the better it is for everybody. Right.
16:37So I've, I've spoken to a lot of actors that, that were traditionally and exclusively horizontal,
16:43like, like soap opera stars, like people that have done good bodies of work that are now looking at
16:49verticals as, as, as, as a, a way to continue acting, continue making money, continue getting reels.
16:56Um, you know, and that's, it's just, it, it, it is such a, a, a unique experience from a casting
17:02director's perspective to sort of be in this world as it's just starting and to watch these actors
17:08sort of grow and flourish within this and just know where it's going to end up. Right. Yeah.
17:12It is, it is the future and it's really exciting to be witnessing it at this ground level. I mean,
17:17I talk about this all the time, but yeah, we are seeing, um, agents and managers that have been
17:22in the business for over 30 years and they're fighting the verticals tooth and nail. They
17:26think it's a fad. And I tell them all the time, I'm like, follow the money. These companies are
17:31making billions of dollars. These aren't going anywhere. So you better jump on board now. You
17:35know what I mean? Right. Fighting this is not going to do anything for anyone. And the other thing is
17:40these actors are getting paid well. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like this is not, I mean,
17:44I don't know about you, but back way back in the day when I first moved to LA, like,
17:48like the asylum who does horror movies. I don't know. Oh yeah. They were paying $25 a day. Okay.
17:53A day for actors to act in those movies way back in the day. It's two 50 now. Right. Exactly. For
17:59every role. And I mean, SAG scale, I believe is two 50 for like, I think so. Yeah. So it's like,
18:05I don't know what people are complaining about, you know, people love to hate on something that's
18:09new to them. And that's, it's easy to call this cringe, right? I actually did an interview where I was
18:14talking about this, where I have so many friends who are like, you know, highbrow. And they're like,
18:17I would never do that. Like, I wouldn't want that on my IMDB. And I'm like, sis,
18:21you haven't done anything except a dog collar commercial. And you did an age 24, six years ago.
18:26Correct. Like, I'm sorry. Like I got to pay rent. There's nothing cringey about paying your bills.
18:31There's nothing cringey about meeting cool people, going on set, doing the thing. Like these
18:36are fun. It's fun to be soapy. Every actor's dream. People love them. That's the thing. People
18:42love to watch these. They are bringing people joy. They find them entertaining. There's no wrong way to
18:47be entertained. If you like to be entertained, you know what I mean? Because yes, I have these conversations
18:51all the time too. We've had clients be like, I don't do verticals. Right. I'm like, well,
18:55okay, have fun missing out on what everything is going to be in the next five years. You know what
18:58I mean? Absolutely. Because it is what it is. Okay. So I think there's a lot more to talk about,
19:02but let's play a game. All right. I love games. Me too. Okay, guys. So I'm going to read you some
19:09statements and you'll tell me if it's fact or fiction. All right. Let's do it. Okay. So first off the
19:14bat, we have casting directors have the final say on who gets cast. A hundred percent. I mean,
19:21we will give them our top options, but when it comes to being like, this is the one, yeah,
19:26we're not the one making that call. Next question. Casting directors don't watch self-tape auditions.
19:33We watch them all and we watch them specifically so that if we need you to shoot it again, we can give
19:38you points, tips, and tricks. Next question. Big stars like Leonardo DiCaprio never have
19:44to audition. You heard it. You have to audition. You're not above auditioning. Next question.
19:54Some actors pretend to have accents or special skills to book roles. Absolutely. Oh yeah. Been there,
20:00done that. If your tape doesn't get chosen, it's probably because you weren't good enough. Damn.
20:07Okay. That wraps up the game. Oh, wow. There you go. Okay guys. So I want to talk about some casting
20:19horror stories, whether the actor, once they're already booked and on set or even like a really weird
20:25audition process or like terrible emailing skills or something. So can you guys tell me some of your
20:30worst horror stories? We're both looking at each other. I know. I mean, there's, so here's a fun
20:38one. I was casting a horror movie and we cast the lead actor. Everyone's super happy. Day one rolls
20:44around. I can't remember exactly why I was on set for day one, but I was. So, you know, an hour goes by,
20:51the lead actor isn't there. Hour two goes by, they're not there. They're not answering the phone.
20:55They're not answering. No one knows what's going on. Everyone's panic, panic, panic. Right?
20:59So it just so happened that one of the director's friends was there that happened to also be right
21:03for this role. And the director was like, you know, F it. We're just going to plug in this guy.
21:07He's here. I don't know where this guy is. No one can get ahold of him. So of course the guy that
21:11I cast rolls in two and a half hours late. They're like, Oh my God, my alarm didn't go off. I'm so
21:15sorry. My phone died. Like all of the things that they always say. And I'm like, bad news, buddy.
21:20They recast the movie because you weren't here and it's day one and they had the availability to do it.
21:25And he totally freaked out. He got really mad at me. He got really mad at everyone. I'm like,
21:29you cannot be late on set. You cannot be late. There are too many people here working. There are
21:34too many people to put too much effort into this day one to make this happen. You cannot get mad
21:40at me or anyone else. I'm sorry that your alarm didn't go off. I'm sorry that your phone died,
21:44but you cannot be late. You need to have yourself together. You know what I mean?
21:49Like a little bit. Geez. I know. I mean, yeah. There's a plan B, C and D for situations like
21:56that that we always prepare for. Punctuality is such an important thing for an actor. It's like
22:00the basic, just get to work. Right. Get to work and know your lines. That's really,
22:05those are the basics. Yes. Yes. Yeah. If you've had, if you've had three or four days with the full
22:09script and you show up to set and you're constantly asking the director for the line, then that's like,
22:15there's like, there's like embarrassing too. Yeah. Just, just learn. Yeah. Learn the script,
22:19learn the craft, show up on time. I know. I've got an insane. Oh yeah. Let's hear it. Let's hear it.
22:26This one was nuts even for me. Um, so I was casting a major network, uh, show and, uh, I, I'd found a
22:33couple of day players and it was a scene where they were in a club. And what I didn't realize at the time
22:40was that the, there were two actresses that knew each other, but did not like each other. Oh,
22:45classic. Did not like each other. Well, did not like each other so much. I was on set and I was
22:51actually watching them. They, we stopped down and they were like, what school did you go to?
22:56And there was a little bit of communication back and forth and they got closer and closer to each
23:00other. And I was like, oh no. So one of them threw a punch. Oh my. And I had to, I had to get
23:07in between them, separate them. Oh yeah. I mean, there's yeah. That's yeah. That's, uh, this was,
23:14this was, this was so TV. That's a good one. TV was the wild west where there was no format that
23:20was too crazy. And so yeah, it was, it was two actresses that knew each other from high school
23:26that didn't like each other. One of them stole the other one's boyfriend and that's why they knew each
23:29other. And they did not let it go. And it sort of all culminated on set. It was just the craziest
23:35thing. The odds of them both being in the same movie and not even being in a show. I know. I
23:38know. Crazy. I mean, that's hilarious. Was anybody else like, wow, we should like film this part of
23:43this. Right. This is the show. Yeah. This is the BTS. I mean, no, thankfully I, I sort of caught it
23:48before it sort of got too big. Um, but yeah, it was, it's yeah. That's so fun. You were like on set
23:55mommy, like separating your kids. Oh yes. Yes. Oh my gosh. It actually is. It really is like that.
24:04And I think it's because maybe actor background and just caring, nurturing. Like I always try so hard
24:11to be with all of my actors from number one to the last background actor and just make sure they're
24:17comfortable, make sure they're getting paid, make sure any questions they have get answered because
24:22I understand them and I really want them to just feel taken care of. And it breaks my heart because
24:26sometimes, you know, production can be crazy and there might not be food for them and they're
24:30freaking out about that. And like, I don't know. I just really try to be a calming mom to all of them.
24:37You know? Yeah. I think being a voice for actors when they're on set and the director and the
24:41producer maybe are incredibly busy doing their own thing. Absolutely.
24:45Is sort of hearing from them at the end of the day and, and sort of giving them sort of the,
24:49the comfort and the understanding. It's like, yeah, you'll be good. If you have any questions,
24:51feel free to ask me like anytime, call me, text me. Yeah, for sure. So I guess my horror stories
24:58aren't as wild as yours, but I mean, almost if you honestly, but that is a hard one to beat.
25:06That's kind of iconic too. So mine are more where, I don't know if you guys experience this,
25:12but sometimes in the vertical space, some actors who have been doing it since they got popular,
25:17there are some egos going on. And so I know some actors who will direct offer always,
25:24and then they're on set. And then the way that they treat people is absolutely disgusting. And
25:29like this gets back to everyone, everybody, everyone's talking about you in these moments.
25:35Yes. And it's, it's really something that grinds my gears more than anything is when you're
25:42disrespectful to PAs, makeup artists, all these things. So I have some people who,
25:47there's one person that comes to my brain where they, um, they just will like throw this one story.
25:53Just it makes my blood boil. They were getting their makeup done and they were eating Rice Krispie
25:57treats and they were throwing the Rice Krispie wrappers on the floor in the makeup chair.
26:01And then the makeup artist, who's one of my best friends, literally was like, oh, like,
26:07did you like leave that? And they were like, oh no, like you can clean it.
26:10Oh wow.
26:11You're joking.
26:11And all throughout the set, they were just so disrespectful to director. Even if director
26:17would ask them to do something, they'd be like, um, didn't you get it in the last shot?
26:23Don't know their lines, read the scene right before. And I'm just like,
26:26I personally won't cast them in anything. Even when client asks for them, that's one thing I'm
26:31like, guys, I'm not going to cast them because I have so many people who they've disrespected that
26:36are close personal friends of mine. And here's another note for you actors. You never know who
26:42these people are and who they're going to be. So that makeup artist could be married to the head of
26:48a studio. Or that makeup artist could write a script, get it sold and remember you. We remember
26:56everything. You may not think we do, especially sort of the bad behavior, the punctuality. We
27:01remember that. But conversely, the person that comes on set, that's awesome to be with, that's
27:06fun, that's joking around, that's on time. We remember that equally. And those are the people
27:11we call in. But yeah, you never know. That PA could get an overall deal at Netflix.
27:17Oh, yeah.
27:18And you will never work for that person. Ever. Ever.
27:22Honestly, I feel like a lot of us can learn from this. Just be a good person and it'll get
27:27you more in life. Also, one note I want to add is sometimes when, for me, I'll reach out to talent
27:35that maybe has been a lead or number two or three and I'm like, hey, do you by chance have any
27:40availability? Are you free? Would you be down to do a three-day player? It's a really fun role.
27:45I know it's not lead, but it's still fun. If they're down and they do that, I remember that.
27:50And I'm like, they're the s**t. They're such a good actor. They're helping me. And I love it.
27:56There's nothing I love more when there's an actor without an ego that's like, yeah, I'm actually
27:59available. I'd love to go in and work and make a friend or something.
28:03Smart actors don't have egos because they know how the business works.
28:07You cannot have an ego and work all the time, really, because no one wants to work with you.
28:12Well, also our industry is so volatile for every department, whether it's ours, actors,
28:18the camera, director, whatever it is. You could be the busiest person for a year and every vertical,
28:25like back to back to back. And then it's like, okay, we got over you and you're not on set again.
28:29And then people are left with that Rice Krispie on the floor.
28:34And like, I remember that. I'm like, I will not.
28:37Your career has become that rapper on the floor.
28:42There's no, nothing left in there. There's some old ants in there now that are eating,
28:46licking it. Okay.
28:47Yeah. Oh man. Okay. So anyway, I think we should talk about some advice for vertical talent, whether
28:54you're, you know, a heavy hitter in the verticals or if you're green and starting out. So what are
29:00some habits or skills that you see successful actors who book both vertical and major studio
29:06roles have? What's something in common that they, they share that they're going back to always being
29:12prepared, always knowing their lines, always being a professional, right? Always delivering.
29:19Yeah. It truly, I mean, if you can knock it out of the park, doing a vertical, everyone's going to
29:25notice truly, if you are in a vertical, that's very successful and you do a great job and you are,
29:30you know, you do justice to the role that's been written for you. People will take notice period.
29:36Yeah. I think, I think respecting the script, respecting the process and giving it your all,
29:42whether it's a vertical or a series on Netflix, treating everything with, with the respect and
29:49the knowledge that these writers spent a ton of time on this. The director spent two weeks scouting.
29:55So this is, it's a, it's a much bigger thing than, than just the actor. And I think for the actor to
29:59understand that and appreciate that and give, give each role the respect it deserves. I think those are,
30:05those are two things that are sort of identical between sort of the, the horizontal world and the
30:10vertical world. What would you say to some actors who, I don't know if you experience this, I do
30:16because I'm on set with them a lot as an actor with them. And sometimes they don't know that I'm
30:20a casting director or I cast it. Which is iconic. It's honestly, I love it.
30:24Like an undercover agent. No, I really am. And I love it. Cause I'm sometimes like,
30:28I'm basically the client on set. So then even like, also I do have to say,
30:32people like me so much more than that. I'm a casting director. I have so many more friends,
30:36so many more likes on my photos, gifts, you know, I'm like, all right, you know,
30:42my gifts. I would love some gifts. Right. Right. Um, but I notice a lot of actors,
30:50especially kind of heavy hitters who've been doing it for a long time, kind of hate it,
30:55or they're kind of just like talking down on it, or they're just like, wait, they're just,
31:00they know that this is a, uh, temporary thing and they really want to do like the big show. Like
31:05their dream is to be on horizontal, be on a series and whatnot. But what would you say to some of those
31:10people who just like kind of talk down on it and they don't like it?
31:14I think it's great to have those aspirations. There's nothing wrong with shooting for the moon,
31:18but sort of understand that it's a process, right? You're going to have to go through the motions,
31:24you know, trial and error. Um, I think just, yeah, you know, it's great to have that, that goal,
31:30but understand and appreciate where you are. If you're working in this industry at all,
31:34it's a gift. I got it. Especially now. Yeah, it's true. It's true. It is a gift. Yes. Uh,
31:40understand and appreciate that gift because you know, the more you're working,
31:45somebody else isn't right. Right. Oh, that's wait. Say it one more time. Yeah. So the more you're
31:50working, the other person, the other person. Oh, that's beautiful. Yeah. I mean, it's just be,
31:56be grateful because there's a lot of actors. I mean, it's just, it's, it's a challenging industry.
32:01Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Especially now. This is the craziest time in Hollywood ever. Like
32:09things are changing. Anyone ask anyone that's been an agent for 50 years at the top agencies.
32:14Everyone will tell you that right now, Hollywood is honestly the most difficult it's ever been to
32:20work. There's just not any work. It's a weird time with everything going on in the world. So like you
32:25said, yes, anyone that's working in any capacity in Hollywood, you are so lucky because there's not
32:30enough work to go around right now. You know what I mean? So yes, gratitude is a big part of all of
32:37this. For sure. For sure. Oh, that's beautiful. What should vertical talent take more seriously
32:43if they want to grow? What should they take more seriously? Um, well, I think it goes back to you
32:47talking about how some actors feel that it's beneath them. You know what I mean? Because I get it.
32:52Like we all want to be in Tarantino's last movie. Okay. Like I totally, totally get it. But at the same
32:58time, these vertical shorts are real sets with real budgets. Everyone working on them is such
33:05a professional, especially because there's so little work on big budget things. They're hiring
33:10people that have these incredible, incredible credits to work on these vertical shorts right
33:14now. You know what I mean? So it's like, just do the work, do the best work you can. You're going to
33:19get incredible footage for your reel doing this. Like you're not going to get footage like this
33:24anywhere else for your reel. Just knock it out of the park and people will take notice.
33:29Yeah. I think that there's a huge misconception, uh, especially with the actors just sort of
33:34dipping their toe into verticals. And this is what sets real short apart is there's a budget for us.
33:40We treat our actors well. It's a fun environment. And one of the best things that's happened to me
33:45consistently over every show that I've cast for this company is I will get the nicest emails and the
33:51nicest text messages from actors saying, I had such a blast. This director was so much fun.
33:57This was such a great experience. I cannot wait to do more. Um, and you know, people tend to,
34:02actors tend to sort of group all vertical companies together. They do. And that is not the case in any
34:08way, shape or form. I have heard horror stories from actors that I've cast for real short productions
34:12that have told me about the other companies that they've worked for. And it is, it's night and day.
34:18It's night and day. So, you know, sort of understand, you know, kind of understand,
34:22you know, what these different companies are and what they offer. And you know, it's, it's definitely,
34:27if you're thinking about it, dip your toe in, do it, get the, get the reel done and start auditioning.
34:33I had this thought the other day. Um, I was, uh, um, what movie came on? The Intern.
34:41That movie came on. I was like, I'm going to watch this. And it was basically a vertical.
34:44And I was thinking so many people hate on the verticals. Like a lot of actors do that do them.
34:50Honestly, a lot of stuff that's professional is the same vibe.
34:54Okay. Can we talk about it? Just like that is literally a vertical short at this point.
34:57Oh my God. No, it is.
35:01It is. No, it, it actually, it fully is. And I'm, I'm a fan of the show. I watch it. I love it.
35:05Me too. My husband and I were watching it.
35:06I'm obsessed.
35:07We were both like, this is a vertical short.
35:09Yeah. Yeah. The more I, the more I, uh, cast and act in verticals and then the more, uh,
35:15shows and, and movies that I watch, I'm like, they're very similar. So I don't think we should
35:20hate on them. I think we should be like, it's just another like leg of that in a way.
35:24Yes. It's just a different thing. And you know, I always,
35:28some of my husband was having a meeting with someone the other day and I was eavesdropping.
35:33But I heard him talking about, um, but this producer was saying like, look,
35:36when talkies became a thing, you know, when silent films just started, everyone was like,
35:40this is the end of Hollywood. No one wants to listen to movies with sound. And then when
35:44television became a thing in the 1950s, everyone was like, this is going to ruin movie theaters.
35:48No one's going to want to go to a movie theater because of television. This is just another one
35:51of these. Cause now the conversation is like, these verticals are ruining Hollywood. No one's
35:55going to want it. You know what I mean? So it's like, there's always, anytime there's a new
35:59form and artistic form in film that happens, everyone's like, oh, well, this is the end.
36:02Right.
36:03This is, you know, this is the end of Hollywood. Yeah.
36:05It's an evolution. It really is. It's just the evolution of what's come before.
36:09Also the fans of vertical content are different than even like euphoria or just like us,
36:17like all these shows, like the fans are diehards. The amount of people in my DMs who are like,
36:21I will live and breathe for you. Like, I'm like, that's a beautiful thing that you can experience
36:28with another person that just watches your work. Oh God. I love it. Where do you see casting
36:33evolving in the next three to five years with verticals, this type of content, the mobisodes?
36:40Do you think that, I mean, this is a big question too. It's like, do we think that Hollywood is going
36:46to go back to standard what we're used to and what people are craving and missing? Or do we think that
36:51it's going to be, this is the new way. I think it's going to be both. I think somehow the future
36:57is going to somehow be what's happening with verticals and also mainstream stuff because
37:01there's, there is a market for both. You know what I mean? We know that generationally,
37:04there's a generational gap between the people that like to watch verticals and the people that like
37:07to watch those that are 30 minutes to an hour. Right. And those age groups aren't that far apart.
37:12So it's like, there's always going to be a market for those half hour, hour long sitcoms,
37:17dramas. But at the same time, these are coming so fast and they're so popular. I do feel like
37:22the future is somehow going to be integrating these in a way. I don't know if that means maybe
37:26they will make things in a way that they can be watched in 60 second increments as well as in an
37:32hour long. Like you can choose which way you want to watch it. You know what I mean? Like,
37:36I don't know. We'll see how it's going to work. Right. Right. And what do you think?
37:39Yeah, no, I mean, actually hearing that, I 100% agree with her. I think there's, there's a world in which
37:45they coexist peacefully and intertwined at certain points. Um, yeah, I think, I think once everybody
37:52sort of figures out where this is and where it's going, because we're all sort of figuring this out,
37:57because it's brand new. Totally. Um, you know, I think, I think it's, I think it could very easily
38:02go hand in hand. I mean, the, the, the horizontal world, like you said, is, is in such influx right now,
38:07is in such flux right now. Um, you know, it's, everything's downsizing, everybody's trying to figure
38:11out what it is. And this is sort of rising from, from the very beginning. Um, yeah,
38:16I think, I think they'll find a way to, to coexist. Absolutely. Yeah. I feel like that's
38:20what the future has to be because people know that these are making billions of dollars. And
38:24that's what I keep telling people when people are like, ah, this is just a fad. I'm like, okay,
38:28well, if billions of dollars is just a fad, then that's quite a fad. Not mad at the fad.
38:33Yeah. Okay. I'll take it. I'll take that fad. Yeah. Not mad at the fad. Hey, for sure.
38:43Okay guys. So I went on my Instagram and asked some of my friends, actors, fans,
38:48some questions that they want to ask you. So I'm going to get my phone and we can do a live
38:54Q and a with people. Somebody asked biggest turnoff from actors while casting.
39:01I think they meant to write the biggest turnoff from casting about actors. Like what's the biggest
39:07turnoff that you guys see when you're casting? I feel like every casting probably has their own
39:12sort of massive pet peeve. Mine is just not being prepared. I would say mine is when an actor sends
39:18in a tape and you can tell that they had no desire to do this audition. Their agent just told them they
39:23had to do it. And they're just sitting there in front of their iPhone, just like not even really
39:27trying and reading their lines. I'm like, this is a complete waste of my time, of their time,
39:31of everyone's time. You know what I mean? So that's my pet peeve.
39:34Oh God. Yeah. Just don't do it. Just say you're unavailable.
39:36I know.
39:38Okay. This is a nice one too. What makes an actor really stand out over another actor?
39:44I mean, I guess if there's like a lot of people up for the same role, something that really stands out
39:49is obviously if they are really ready in their performance, if their audition is really,
39:53really tight, if you can tell that they care, that they put effort into their audition is obviously
39:58nice. Right. I'll drill down on that. I think for me, it's in the eyes. I think when I see an actor
40:05perform a scene and I see the emotion in their eyes and I see where their eyes are directed,
40:11I think that's a big plus for me is sort of watching the scene play out in their eyes. I think
40:18that's yeah. I'm piggybacking off this right now. So, you know, sometimes when you get self-tapes
40:26and they're clearly done at a professional place where an actor paid money to do the self-tape and do
40:33the lighting, do the editing, the whole thing. What's your opinion on that? Like, because people
40:37spend a lot of money. They spend a lot of money. I mean, we have some clients that are like in their
40:41sixties and seventies and like it's easier for them to just go somewhere and have them do it because
40:46maybe they don't have like the skills, the computer skills to do it. So like, I get that.
40:50But at the same time, I've also booked people that are clearly just standing in their apartment,
40:56you know, without any good lighting. Like if your tape is good, that's all that matters. You don't
41:01have to have this whole professional setup, even though I know sometimes people say that they prefer
41:05it. I'm sure we've all cast people that have just had no setup and just done it in their apartments.
41:10Honestly, like 99% of the time I'm booking people who don't do that.
41:15Right. Right. I don't know, you know, casting director, casting doctor. They wrote,
41:20um, do you purposely pick previously successful pairs from vertical apps? That's a good question.
41:28Say that again. So they're asking if you guys, if there's a successful show,
41:33whatever app it is, do you guys pick the couple from that one to book?
41:40I personally, when it comes to that, I haven't, but I have seen that done where they're like,
41:43this movie did really well. We want these two to be in this one again. So like, I personally
41:48haven't made that call, but I have seen that call made. I'm incredibly competitive and I love going
41:53out and finding new actors. So like every once in a while I'll be like, yeah, okay, we'll bring one
41:58on. But I think, you know, it's the, you know, there's a ton of scripts. It's good to be different.
42:02It's good to sort of mix and match. Yeah. Find new people and bring new people into this industry.
42:07So I, I have one or two, but I, I love, I love just going, going to weird places and finding actors
42:15and bringing them in. Oh my gosh, you guys, thank you so much for being here. I, I'm so excited to
42:23get to know you. Now I can call you whenever there's a casting issue and just get, get the tea on
42:27everything. Um, do you guys have anything else you want to say to some of our actors watching,
42:32some of our fans? Yeah. I mean, keep watching and, and get those tapes in. Like I said,
42:37you don't need an agent, don't need a manager, get us those tapes, audition, and we'd love to get you
42:42on the show. Absolutely. Yes. You do not. This is a great time to be an actor because you don't
42:47necessarily need an agent or a manager to get on a vertical. So yes, work on those auditions,
42:52send me your tapes and hopefully we will see you in the movies. Thanks guys. Bye guys.
43:22Bye.
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