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00:00Welcome to Crime Light, I'm Julia Zemiro.
00:24Each week we explore the methods and motives behind criminal behaviour and the psychology
00:29that helps us make sense of it all.
00:31Now, tell me, do you ever get the feeling you're being watched?
00:34I do.
00:35Oh please, I'm just trying to live my life.
00:39Tonight we're exploring surveillance.
00:42From the streets to the shops, your phone to your fridge, it's everywhere you go in
00:45places you'd never expect and you can see some things that should probably remain unseen.
00:50We'll uncover how it's used to track offenders, control the way we behave and lead us into
00:55a dystopian future.
00:57Before we begin, let's meet the panel.
00:59Our first expert has so many criminology credentials, she literally wrote the book on guarding against
01:05crime called Guarding Against Crime.
01:07It's Professor Danielle Reynolds.
01:12So Danielle, I have to ask you, how do we guard against crime?
01:20Oh, there's so many golden nuggets, but a couple of really simple take homes for you.
01:26First of all, learn how to protect yourself.
01:28Second of all, learn how to protect the people around you.
01:31And for all the other interesting details, you're just going to have to buy the book.
01:33That's what the book is.
01:35Our second expert has a PhD in white collar crime.
01:39He's like a sniffer dog for corporate malpractice and we can't pat him either.
01:43Please welcome Dr David Bartlett.
01:45David, how common is white collar crime?
01:52It's actually the most common form of crime that you're likely to be susceptible to, but
01:56it's also the type of crime that you're most likely to commit.
01:59What?
02:00How do you mean?
02:01Who in the audience here has cheated on a timesheet at work?
02:04Oh yeah.
02:04Or put something on a tax return that maybe they shouldn't.
02:07Yes.
02:10Tonight, our experts are joined by a stand-up star who's selling out venues across the
02:15country with shows like Who Dis?, Who Cares?, and Who Am I?, tonight she'll be asking
02:19Whodunit.
02:20It's Lizzie Who!
02:22So Lizzie, if you got into trouble who would be your one phone call?
02:31Oh, well my mum's still my emergency contact.
02:34Right.
02:35At 41.
02:36And you've got that kind of relationship with your mum that you could call, like she would
02:39accept you?
02:40No.
02:41No.
02:42No acceptance.
02:43No acceptance.
02:44She'd be disappointed.
02:45And our second guest is a comedian, writer and cinematic savant who hosts the Last Video
02:50Store podcast.
02:51He's here to help pick the facts from the Pulp Fiction, the criminal masterminds from the
02:55usual suspects.
02:56It's Alexi Toliopoulos!
02:58Cheers!
02:59Cheers!
03:00Cheers!
03:01Cheers!
03:02Cheers!
03:03Cheers!
03:04Cheers!
03:05Now, Alexi, who's your favourite celluloid criminal?
03:08One of my favourite cinematic criminals would be Watto the Toydarian from Star Wars Episode
03:131, The Phantom Menace.
03:14He famously enslaved Anakin Skywalker and his mother.
03:19But slavery was legal on Tatooine, but I'm trying to overturn it.
03:22At the record show, I am a nerd.
03:25Nowadays, it feels like everything is a camera.
03:29Your phone is a camera.
03:30Your computer's a camera.
03:31Is it a camera or is it Kate?
03:35It's a camera.
03:41Surveillance isn't just people watching, it's about making sure people know they're
03:47being watched.
03:48Have you ever slowed down because you're worried there could be a speed camera?
03:51Or maybe you caught sight of yourself on the checkout screen and reconsidered scanning
03:56those pomegranates as onions?
03:58Well, that sinking feeling has a name.
04:04The Panopticon effect.
04:05From an 18th century prison designed by philosopher Jeremy Bentham.
04:10Now, Bentham was a staunch supporter of women's suffrage, animal rights and is now considered
04:14the father of modern utilitarianism.
04:16Today, well, he'd probably have a podcast.
04:19After years of fixation, he came up with the ultimate inefficient, cost-effective
04:25incarceration, the Panopticon.
04:27Surveillance here comes in the form of an oppressive observation tower at the centre
04:32of the structure, which is key to the building's design.
04:35And the idea is that all the prisoners in their cells are not really sure whether the
04:40guards are looking at them or looking at their neighbour downstairs, and so they have
04:43to be on their best behaviour all the time.
04:46Maybe someone's watching, maybe they're not.
04:49We might have graduated from watchtowers to CCTV cameras, but Bentham's Panopticon principles
04:55remain.
04:56It turns out the mere suggestion of the presence of a camera is enough to change our behaviour.
05:01David, why is the Panopticon effect so powerful?
05:04It's basically a mind trick.
05:05So if we think we're constantly under surveillance, we tend to behave as if we are, and we increase
05:10our level of self-regulation.
05:12What I think is really neat is how we see this principle in everyday life.
05:16When you go into some supermarkets these days, and the second you walk in, you see yourself
05:21on the video screen, and you're sort of like, oh, okay.
05:23And then as you're checking out, at the self-checkout, you see yourself again.
05:27So it creates this perception that you're constantly under surveillance, but you're actually surveilling
05:31yourself.
05:32I think I kind of grew up in that original Panopticon because I started always feeling
05:35watched kind of in the lead up to Christmas, where I was just trying to be actually doing
05:40everything I could to get on that nice list in that last minute.
05:44The guy was always watching whether I was asleep or not.
05:47The guy.
05:48The guy.
05:49There's always someone watching.
05:51Danielle, I mean, Jeremy Bentham originally came up with this idea with good intentions,
05:56didn't he?
05:57Yeah, he did.
05:58Bentham was a social reformer, among other things.
06:00So he was really concerned with creating prisons that could allow offenders to rehabilitate
06:06their behaviour.
06:07And these principles were used by prisons in the centuries that followed, including Pentridge
06:12prison in Melbourne.
06:13Pentridge.
06:14They put a cinema there now.
06:16It's a beautiful cinema.
06:17You can live there.
06:18Yeah.
06:19It's a reverse Joni Mitchell situation.
06:21You know, they paved the prison yard to put up my kind of paradise.
06:25Beautiful in there.
06:27A 1970s music reference.
06:29How divine.
06:30Oh, yes.
06:31I'm quite old school.
06:32I love it.
06:33And a nerd.
06:34Lizzie, do we just love watching people a bit too much?
06:38Yeah, I think we do.
06:39I mean, I keep Facebook to go on to someone else's photo album from 2010.
06:45Like a pregnancy photo shoot from someone I went to high school with.
06:48Me and my friends, we get together, we watch it all the time.
06:50It sounds like you would have enjoyed being a guard at the Panopticon.
06:53Oh, yes.
06:54You've been in charge.
06:55No.
06:56If Alexi's a nerd, I'm a bully.
06:58I won't have it.
06:59I won't have it.
07:00I won't have it.
07:02To test Bentham's theory, in one study, researchers at Newcastle University in England placed a
07:08pair of watching eyes above a campus bike rack.
07:11No cameras.
07:12No patrols.
07:13Just eyes.
07:14And a message.
07:15The result?
07:16Bike thefts dropped by 62%.
07:18And it's not just human eyes.
07:20Owls are getting involved now.
07:22But they only work at night time.
07:26Danielle, how effective is surveillance at actually reducing crime?
07:30So we know that CCTV is most effective in reducing crimes like property crime, vandalism,
07:36drug crime, but there's no significant effect on violent crime.
07:41And that makes sense when you think about the fact that violent crimes are driven by emotions,
07:47impulses, strong motivations that really outweigh the fear of getting caught.
07:53And we also know that alcohol only exacerbates that loss of emotional control that we see featured
08:00in violent crime.
08:01A classic example is the one-punch killings, otherwise known as coward punch killings in Australia,
08:09like the one that we saw in Sydney's King's Cross.
08:12I think all of those incidents showcase the fact that these sort of impulsive crime acts,
08:18they are almost impossible to be controlled and regulated by bystanders, by security,
08:24and certainly not able to be regulated by street cameras.
08:28So I think just because you see a street camera there or a CCTV camera,
08:32doesn't mean that you're going to be protected from violent crime.
08:35So much of the conversation we've had so far, so much of it is about surveilling people with low status
08:41and how it affects them, but how does it affect people that are vested with some kind of authority,
08:47like, you know, in the panopticon, the guards, or police in public?
08:51What effect does it have on authority figures?
08:54So we know that people change their behaviour when they're being surveilled.
08:57So police officers, we know, do change their behaviour when they activate their body camera, for example.
09:02They choose when to activate it, but it records about 15 to 30 seconds before when they activate it.
09:09So you can actually see what led up to them activating them.
09:11So they only activate it if they know something's happening or if they're in the middle of something?
09:17Absolutely. So if they think that video is going to be useful for evidence,
09:21either to prove the offence or to protect themselves against a complaint
09:25or something like that that might be vexatious, they can activate that body cam.
09:28And I think the short answer to your question is it affects everybody.
09:32Once you know your behaviour is being recorded, all of a sudden you are the one who is responsible.
09:37People are looking at you and they're able to judge your actions.
09:41So everybody stands up a little bit straighter.
09:44I used to live in an apartment block that had CCTV in the recycling room.
09:56Yeah, I know. So I was flattening my boxes.
10:00I was sorting stuff out. I was really good and now I'm in an apartment with a garbage chute
10:07and I'm like, ah, it doesn't matter.
10:11Once upon a time, the strongest surveillance network in the country wasn't ASIO.
10:15It was Carol from next door with a pair of binoculars and a landline.
10:20For more on the original community surveillance, here's Lew Wall.
10:24In the 1980s, ordinary citizens were enlisted to surveil their neighbours.
10:28They kept detailed notes, attended regular meetings,
10:31reported suspicious behaviour to the authorities.
10:34No, it wasn't East Germany.
10:36This was suburban Australia and the rise of Neighbourhood Watch.
10:41Ah, the 80s.
10:44Break-ins were up, police were stretched.
10:47Forget about the Cold War and the stock market crash.
10:49Back then, local news had us thinking that the biggest threat to our safety
10:53was a flannel-wearing crim climbing through the window to steal the VHS player.
10:57Enter Neighbourhood Watch.
11:00I'll take that.
11:01Become involved in your community.
11:03A community group where you can have a cup of tea and a nice bobo
11:07and openly judge your neighbours.
11:09All in the name of public safety.
11:11Did you see the lady at the bins?
11:13I reckon she's a hoarder.
11:15And in some places, Neighbourhood Watch actually worked.
11:18One study found it could cut crime by up to 26%,
11:22but it was often in affluent suburbs,
11:24where the crime was already low.
11:26And the biggest problem was Alan using the mower at 7am again!
11:34While the tea and ice bobo version of Neighbourhood Watch
11:37isn't quite the suburban staple it once was,
11:40it hasn't vanished entirely.
11:41If anything, it's evolved.
11:43Now, people are glued to doorbell cams
11:45and logging suspicious movements on Facebook groups
11:48so you don't have to even hang out with your neighbours.
11:51But here's the thing.
11:52A study found that all of this online chatter
11:54doesn't necessarily mean more crime,
11:56it just means more people talking about crime.
11:59So while the streets might feel dangerous,
12:02it's actually just Shazza posting in the group chat
12:0414 times an hour.
12:06Every hour.
12:07Here she is again.
12:09The hoarder lady is back at the bins next door.
12:12I gotta go.
12:13So where is Neighbourhood Watch effective these days?
12:20I think it's still most effective in rural areas.
12:23And it makes sense because rural areas, neighbours know each other,
12:27the social cohesion is already very strong,
12:29populations are smaller,
12:31so people have a chance to get to know each other.
12:33And that social cohesion is really, really important,
12:35not only for preventing crime,
12:37but just generally for the community.
12:39One of the good things about Neighbourhood Watch though
12:42is it was a structured program where the police were involved,
12:44so the police would come along and once a month,
12:46whenever it was, and have a cup of tea
12:48and tell you what crimes really were or weren't happening.
12:51But what we've seen more recently
12:53is the rise of, like, these Facebook groups.
12:55One of the problems in those is that they've got the potential,
12:58and often do, increased perceptions of crime.
13:01So as Lou was saying, someone will post 14 times
13:04about the one offence.
13:05Or you might get 40 people talking about one instance,
13:08and that's just one instance,
13:10but everyone perceives there to be more crime because of it.
13:14And that generates fear of crime as well.
13:16But one of the, I think, the more worrying aspects of it
13:19is it's got the potential to drive vigilante behaviour.
13:22And we have actually, off the back of some of these groups,
13:25seen vigilante groups form and take action.
13:27So we change our behaviour when we know we're being observed,
13:31and we wanted to give it a try,
13:33using our very own studio audience
13:35in our experiment of the week.
13:41When you arrived this evening,
13:42you were welcomed by a bountiful buffet of snacks,
13:45and you were told you were being watched by our studio cameras.
13:49Honestly, it was a little outrageous.
13:52Macaron, delicate tarts, buttery patisseries,
13:55and dainty finger sandwiches,
13:57all meticulously curated to tempt you.
14:00But then you were clearly instructed by our charming production team
14:03to take just one item per person.
14:06Cool.
14:07Hi, everyone. Welcome to Crime Night.
14:10Just so you're aware, we've got some cameras out here
14:12getting some shots of the foyer.
14:14So just be aware, you are on camera.
14:16We do have a lovely snack table here for everybody.
14:18However, please, just take one per person.
14:27And so far, so good.
14:28But here's where it gets interesting.
14:30Thank you so much.
14:31We've got all the shots we need,
14:33so our cameras are going to head on back into the studio.
14:36We then took the cameras away.
14:38Or did we?
14:39We didn't.
14:40We continued to film you and watched your behaviour.
14:43Let's see if anything changed
14:44when you thought you weren't being watched.
15:06Many of you went back for more, thinking no one was watching.
15:15And one of you caught our eye in particular.
15:17Yes, we spotted you, Thomas, returning to the table for an extra vital.
15:18Yes, we spotted you, Thomas, returning to the table for an extra vital.
15:19Yes, we spotted you, Thomas, returning to the table for an extra vital.
15:23We love you, Thomas.
15:24Now, you were told that you could only have one snack.
15:38What was it that made you return back to the table for more snacks?
15:39I'm a savoury person.
15:40And when I arrived, I thought that a little vanilla tart is a quiche.
15:43So I took it, ate of it.
15:44Oh, sweet.
15:45Then I thought I need to have something savoury to wash it down with.
15:47By then, the sandwiches were already gone.
15:48I thought, eh.
15:49Let's take the chocolate croissant instead.
15:50Not as sweet.
15:51And I thought, Haribo is also where I come from.
15:52Let's go a third time.
15:53Let's go a third time.
15:54Oh, we love you, Thomas.
15:55Oh, we love you, Thomas.
15:56We love you, Thomas.
15:57Now, you were told that you could only have one snack.
15:58What was it that made you return back to the table for more snacks?
15:59I'm a savoury person.
16:00And when I arrived, I thought that a little vanilla tart is a quiche.
16:02So I took it, ate of it.
16:03Oh, sweet.
16:04Then I thought, I need to have something savoury to wash it down with.
16:06By then, the sandwiches were already gone.
16:08I thought, eh.
16:09Let's take the chocolate croissant instead.
16:11Not as sweet.
16:12And I thought, Haribo is also where I come from.
16:15Let's go a third time.
16:16When we took the cameras away, were you emboldened to go back again?
16:21Yes.
16:23Also.
16:24It was a food waste as well.
16:26Food waste is horrible, I guess.
16:27I was so proud.
16:28When I saw that lady in the coat loading up that plate, I go, that is it.
16:32That is it.
16:34That is it.
16:35Brilliant.
16:36Thank you so much, Thomas.
16:38CCTV is the perfect witness.
16:45Silent.
16:46Impartial.
16:47And conveniently time stamped.
16:49It was key in tracking the Boston Marathon bombers.
16:52It's been instrumental in tracing local underworld figures in Melbourne.
16:56And also a daring helicopter heist in Sweden.
16:59And now, we have the rise of private surveillance.
17:02Cameras on dashboards, doorbells and shop fronts.
17:05The circuit is no longer closed.
17:07No indiscretion goes unseen.
17:09No, not even your friendly neighbourhood poo jogger is safe anymore.
17:14What a relief.
17:17It's helped solve everything from minor misdemeanours to major cases.
17:22David, how effective is surveillance when it comes to solving crimes?
17:26It's actually very effective.
17:28And that's partly a function of the fact that we've seen the number of cameras increase over the last decade.
17:33There's some research that indicates that about half of offences, there's actually CCTV footage available for police.
17:40And that's huge as a crime solving tool.
17:43A really high profile case recently was that Erin Paterson case.
17:47So what we saw there is a crucial piece of evidence was that CCTV footage of her dumping the dehydrator.
17:53Now that came from a security camera at the tip that was put in place to protect the tip and ended up solving murders.
17:59That's wild.
18:00This is one of the fascinating things is that now we don't just have CCTV.
18:05CCTV is connected to all of these other camera security systems that we have that are personal, that are individual.
18:12So when police are trying to piece a crime together, they can actually request access from your private security home cameras, from your doorbell cams, from your dash cams.
18:24Do you have to hand it over?
18:26It depends on the circumstances.
18:28But look, most law-abiding citizens, if they think they've got that key to that crime, are going to hand it over.
18:34Yeah, and I think it is your civic duty to assist in an investigation.
18:38Is it?
18:39I think it is.
18:40I'm happy.
18:41I think it's our civic duty to not hit the streets drunk and coward punch people, but hey.
18:46That's it.
18:47War me nuts.
18:48Anyway.
18:49So surveillance is a tool, but I assume that criminals use it to monitor their activities as well.
18:55Oh, absolutely.
18:56So if you look at a bikey clubhouse, for example, quite often they'll have cameras, because they want to see when the police are coming.
19:01And it's a bit of a high risk strategy from the offender's perspective, because if they actually do get caught, they can actually access that CCTV and it becomes evidence against the offender.
19:10Today's surveillance lives in our pockets.
19:13Our phones and watches track where we go, listen to what we say and recognise our faces better than some of our relatives.
19:19In some parts of the world, CCTV is levelling up with how the government tracks its citizens.
19:24Facial recognition, body scanning and geo-tracking matched with your personal data and online behaviour will power the social credit system, leaving no dark corner to hide in.
19:39China has a social credit system that combines everything from financial data to friend lists to generate a trustworthiness score, which is like an Uber rating, but for moral character.
19:50Good behaviour unlocks perks like faster loans and travel upgrades.
19:54Bad behaviour?
19:55You might be banned from high-speed trains or stuck with dial-up internet, or as we call it in Australia, living outside a capital city.
20:02It sounds like an Orwellian nightmare, but the tech behind it isn't staying in China, it's spreading out all across the globe.
20:11In London, police are trialling the use of facial recognition technology on the streets, scanning people's faces against a watch list.
20:18And if you're on one...
20:20Within minutes, an alarm goes off.
20:23So, a subject has just walked through one of our cameras who's got conditions that have been set by us or by the courts.
20:31David, what is the potential outcome of this kind of technology?
20:34So, the Orwellian goal here is to identify persons of interest who are already on the police radar, and they're trying to track where those people are.
20:41So, for example, if they've got a person of interest, they can search multiple cameras in seconds, and identify where that person is, and get a ping to their phone to let them know, so they can then go and intercept that person.
20:54So, for police, this is a real game-changer.
20:56What's great about the technology, and I don't think we can forget about this, and we see this in the London example, is that it is really highly effective in terms of us being able to keep track of dangerous people.
21:08People, for even people who are out on bail conditions, people who have EVUs, we are able to track them, and we can prevent them from re-offending as well.
21:19Is that kind of technology available here?
21:21No, not at present.
21:23So, in Australia, there have been trials of facial recognition technology.
21:27The closest thing that we've got is the Bunnings case in 2023.
21:31So, Bunnings fell foul of the Australian privacy laws because what they were doing is taking biometric face prints of customers coming to their stores.
21:40So, they were capturing the images of hundreds of thousands of customers with the goal of identifying those people who were repeat offenders in terms of stealing things.
21:48Now, the problem was they didn't actually let anyone know that that's what they were doing.
21:52They didn't seek their consent.
21:54Bunnings was actually trying to do the right thing in the sense that they were trying to target repeat offenders, and by doing that, they would have been able to prevent the vast majority of crime that happens at their stores.
22:07I think my big concern with facial recognition technology is that it is not error-proof.
22:12You know, people get it wrong all the time, and there are misidentifications that happen with facial recognition technology frequently.
22:20And you know who is most likely to be misidentified by facial recognition technology?
22:25Women, people with darker skin tones, people who look similarly, so people who resemble.
22:32I know my sister, she just loses it because my face can open her iPhone.
22:38And she's like six years older than me.
22:41And I think the thing that really pisses her off is that her face can't open my phone.
22:48Do you think, like DNA solved crimes retrospectively, do you think this facial recognition will solve crimes retrospectively?
22:58It's got the potential, absolutely.
23:00Like if we've been hypothetically stealing from a supermarket.
23:04It's a hypothetical question.
23:08It's a hypothetical question.
23:09So if that footage was hypothetically still available, then hypothetically, yeah.
23:14Okay.
23:15But the thing is with this technology, so a lot of these images go up to the cloud these days.
23:19So it's not like the old days where you'd actually have a physical drive somewhere that you'd have to keep the images on or the footage on.
23:25And it tends to be overwritten after a period of time, but it depends how long ago you hypothetically did it.
23:30Okay.
23:31Well, good to know.
23:34But face prints are not nearly as reliable as DNA or as fingerprints.
23:40Right?
23:41Like I think that's really important to keep in mind.
23:43Your face changes significantly over time.
23:46It changes with age.
23:47It changes if you put weight on, if you lose weight.
23:49Oh gosh.
23:50Yes.
23:51So they're definitely not as reliable, I'd say.
23:53David, I'm going to ask you a question I ask myself, I don't know, six times a day.
23:58Do we need to strengthen our laws around the use of this technology?
24:02I mean really, come on everyone.
24:09Of course we do.
24:12The technology advances so quickly that the law just can't keep up.
24:17So what we need to be doing is scanning the horizon constantly to see what's out there in terms of new technology.
24:23And then think about, do we actually want that here?
24:25And if we do, what are the parameters we're going to put around it?
24:28And then put the laws in place so that we actually know what we're doing before the technology even hits our shores.
24:34So with all this surveillance, do we feel safer?
24:39Yeah, after this conversation, what do you reckon probably not?
24:43I don't think so.
24:44You give some leeway up of your rights to feel secure, to feel safe, like that's the kind of social contract you buy into.
24:52But then when you lose so much of your privacy, you feel, I don't know, feel weakened?
24:59I don't feel safer a lot of the time?
25:01Sometimes I feel safer.
25:02So if I'm going into an area that I know is high risk, that might be in the early hours of the morning or something like that,
25:07I actually do get a bit of a sense of safety, knowing that there are cameras there that are being monitored.
25:13So that if something does happen, people can actually send the police my way.
25:17I'm the same on a date, you know.
25:19Like if I'm with a new person and I see CCTV, I'm like...
25:26Get the full check, just in case.
25:29Clever.
25:30I think it's exhausting being watched.
25:32And there's a lot of psychology research that shows that being watched all the time actually forces this cognitive load on all of us.
25:40It negatively affects our memory, it negatively affects our attention.
25:44Yeah.
25:45So I don't know if being watched more is a good thing, but yeah.
25:49But back to Bentham, if we are being watched all the time, are we behaving better?
25:54This is a tricky question.
25:55So Jenny and I were debating this earlier.
25:57Yeah.
25:58What we're saying is we don't really know.
25:59So there's no research that's rigorous enough for us to say yes or no.
26:04Well that's a shame, because I think we should do the research on it.
26:08So just how much surveillance are we encountering day to day?
26:12Well, that's the question we're asking in tonight's Endgame.
26:15Smile.
26:16You're on how many cameras?
26:17In this game, I'm going to ask you a camera based question and you just need to write down a number.
26:28Closest to the answer wins.
26:30Are you ready?
26:31A test.
26:32Here we go.
26:33Question one.
26:34Heathrow Airport services over 80 million passengers each year.
26:38How many CCTV cameras would you find in Heathrow Airport?
26:43Have you been to Heathrow?
26:45No, never.
26:46Never?
26:47Never.
26:48I've heard it's beautiful though.
26:49I've heard one of those ones about Heathrow Airport.
26:51It's just beautiful.
26:52You want to see Big Ben, The Ten, Heathrow Airport.
26:57Okay, you've locked in your answers.
26:59Yeah.
27:00And reveal.
27:02Oh, no.
27:05The correct answer is 9,000 CCTV cameras.
27:09Lizzie, it is yours.
27:10Oh, wow.
27:12Wow.
27:13That's great.
27:15They called the bomb squad for me at Heathrow.
27:17What?
27:18Oh, my gosh.
27:19It was one of the best experiences of my life.
27:22They swabbed one of our bags a few times and tested positive for bomb residue.
27:28A few minutes later, all these massive dudes in like all their gear, automatic weapons,
27:34dogs just came bursting through the doors and had to swab our bag and everything.
27:39Turns out, bomb residue is very similar to some of the minerals that you have in creams
27:45and makeup.
27:46Just FYI.
27:47Wow.
27:48All right.
27:49Question two.
27:50Here we go.
27:51Speed cameras have been in use since the 1980s.
27:54But how many infringements were captured by speed cameras in Victoria last year?
27:58And are any of them here tonight?
28:01I didn't start to drive till I was 35, so I'm quite the nana behind the wheel.
28:07All right.
28:08When you've done your numbers, hold up your signs and now reveal them.
28:13David, you are the winner.
28:15The answer is $1,140,878.
28:16Are you mortified?
28:17Wow.
28:18Those fines equate to $473 million in revenue.
28:30It's so good to see your tax dollars working well.
28:33Isn't it?
28:34And that was Smile.
28:35You're on how many cameras?
28:37Please give a massive thanks to our guests, Lizzie Hu and Alexi Tolyopoulos.
28:46And of course, our resident experts, Professor Danielle Reynold and Dr. David Bartlett.
28:55So whether it's CCTV, your neighbours or a bird of prey, we can't escape surveillance.
29:03Turns out these days, if you feel like you're being watched, you probably are.
29:09So watch out.
29:10I'm Julia Zemiro.
29:11Good night.
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