- 9 months ago
Women’s World Cup 2025: In an interview, Mithali Raj, Diana Edulji, Poonam Yadav and Sushma Verma shared their views on India's victory on Sunday against South Africa at the DY Patil Stadium in Navi Mumbai.
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00:00So has women's cricket finally come of age in this country? Is this Indian women's 1983 moment for women's cricket?
00:11Has the glass ceiling in cricket been broken once and for all? Are women cricketers now on par with men?
00:17The rise of women in Indian sport is our top focus.
00:51One of the great pioneers of this sport for Indian cricket when it first started.
00:56And Sharda Ugra, one of India's leading sports journalists.
00:59I appreciate all of you joining us, as I said, on this incredibly momentous day when India has lifted the World Cup late last night.
01:08The tryst with destiny, as they are calling it, for cricket at midnight.
01:12Mitali Raj, to you first.
01:13What does it mean for someone like you, who came so close and yet couldn't really quite make it with a World Cup in your hands to actually have that trophy in your hands,
01:24presented by some of your teammates who are keen to have you celebrate the occasion with them?
01:29What did it mean for you, Mitali, that night yesterday?
01:33I think it all came down to the couple of times that we were in the finals, didn't really cross the line.
01:41There were some of the players like Harman Smiti, they were also part of the 2017 World Cup final.
01:47And, you know, to see them cross that line, both of them took this team across.
01:53It was a big opportunity, you know, having the World Cup at home.
01:57And we really wanted India to do well in this World Cup.
02:01And once they qualified for the semis, because I had a lot of nerves in the semifinal just before the start of that game.
02:07But the way the Indian team made a comeback into, after losing those three big games and then making a comeback against New Zealand, winning against Australia.
02:18The finals I knew, like, you know, India will get through.
02:22But it was a big night for all of us.
02:24Seeing some of these young girls coming off, like Richa Ghosh, Shefali Varma, all of them who've played, who've been part of the last 2022 edition World Cup where I led.
02:37To see them do so well and fulfill the dreams of all of us in the past, the former cricketers, who've always had the dream that India should win a World Cup.
02:47And they were able to do that in reality for all of us.
02:50So it was a huge, big night.
02:54So for you, the turning point was that win against Australia in the semifinals.
03:00Am I right, Mitali?
03:01That was when you knew India can do it.
03:05Well, I knew India can do it.
03:07So did I feel that even Australia knew the only team that can beat them is the Indian team.
03:13And it was so clinical.
03:14I mean, at no point did the girls fumble or in that run chase, losing wicket, a couple of early wickets.
03:21But that partnership was so important.
03:24Harman showed her calmness.
03:26Jamima threw the tournament.
03:29She spoke about the anxiety.
03:31But, you know, coming out on that stage in a knockout game to come up with a hundred and actually seeing the team through till the end.
03:38I mean, that was one hell of a knock in a knockout by an Indian.
03:42And then in the final, Shafali Verma, I knew the capability and the skill that she get.
03:48But that's two wickets with that golden arm that she got for India.
03:52I think that was also a turning point in the final.
03:54She came and lost sort of a wild card for India in this tournament.
03:58You know, there are lots of, of course, heroines and heroes in this tournament.
04:06The likes of Ditti Sharma, who had an incredible final.
04:10Smriti, of course, is a remarkable player.
04:12Harman, Preet and Jamima with that knock, Shafali in the finals.
04:16Poonam, Yadav, was there a particular player who stood out for you for this Indian team or was it a team effort?
04:22See, my team effort is a team effort, because cricket is a team sport, so it's very difficult to take a single one's name.
04:31Because in every game, there was a new game, and the way the wild card entered, Shafali Verma was a very good performance in the domestic.
04:41And Ditti Sharma, who has a senior player for a long time, always has a middle-overs, or has a batting on top of them.
04:51I think it's a very good performance in the women's Indian team, and Shafali Domestic was in a very good form, so I think it's a great effect in the final of such a big game.
05:08You know, Diana, Edulji, I want to come to you, because you've seen Indian cricket, women's cricket, through the not-so-good times, the 70s, 80s, 90s, 80s and 90s,
05:23when often you had to travel in unreserved railway compartments, you actually had to crowdsource your way, if I'm not mistaken, to even attend a World Cup.
05:33You want to give us a sense what this means for people like you, who struggled in those days, Diana, what that, what yesterday means?
05:40Well, after winning the World Cup last night, I cannot believe that 50 years have passed since we started playing cricket.
05:51And that, for those 50 years, the transformation that has taken place in women's cricket is immense.
06:00It was a watershed moment for me. I was at the ground watching the game live, and I just could not control my emotions.
06:10I was absolutely over the moon. This was a trophy which I wanted very badly. We missed it narrowly in 2017.
06:18We missed the T20 in Melbourne very narrowly with the finals we played there.
06:24That was a trophy which I wanted in the BCCI cabinet. And as a COA member, I knew this team is capable of doing things.
06:34I gave them everything they wanted, and I just said, I want performance.
06:39And just before the finals, when I spoke to Harman, and I said, I want that star on the jersey that the men have three.
06:46Let's start with our women, also senior women, because the junior and under 19 have two stars on their jersey.
06:52It's time that the seniors do it. And she finally, the team and all the full team played like champions.
07:01I was very proud. It is a great moment, a historical day.
07:06And I, just going back 50 years, I feel it's worth living 50 years in this moment.
07:13You know, Sharda Ogra, you've written a very evocative piece recently about what these, about how a billion dreams in a way are ignited when the Indian team does so well.
07:28Do you believe a real barrier has been broken? And do you give the credit to the players?
07:35Do you give some credit to the BCCI that a couple of years ago actually decided to give equal pay to women cricketers?
07:42What do you believe has changed, Sharda? Has something changed in the world of sport as far as India is concerned, where women sportsmen can dream big?
07:51Hi, thanks Raji for having me here. And before I answer, I'll do the thing that you hate your guests do.
07:58That's to say congratulations to Diana, to Mitali, to Poonam, to Sushma, and you know, for this great, great performance.
08:04And I'm so happy for all of you. I think what has changed definitely has been the quality of, you know, the competitiveness of the players,
08:14their readiness for the fight, and the fact that they were so prepared and so ready for this.
08:20Now, mind you, a World Cup at home is not an easy World Cup to win. It's very, very difficult because there is pressure and all of it.
08:28But when I saw this women's team, it was like these women who were walking on the shoulders of all these giants that had got them there,
08:35particularly in the final, you know, it did not seem to be, I mean, I was so stressed out during the semi-final by watching Jemima Chase,
08:42even though like we had not lost a lot of wickets and the tempo of the innings was fine.
08:47But in the final, I thought they were much, they were much more relaxed, much better.
08:51I think since the time the BCCI started giving contracts to the senior players, a small bunch of them, we can discuss the money issue later.
08:57I am a bit sort of 50-50 on that. Post-13, 14, 15, at least acknowledging the existence of women players as professionals that need to be supported like the men are supported.
09:09The introduction of the WPL is a very big thing. That's all the factors that have come together.
09:16We've got this terrific performance and this terrific team.
09:22Why do you say equal pay for women cricketers was not a turning point? You seem to be 50-50 on that.
09:28Was that not a major factor or just the fact that women cricket was finally being recognized was more important?
09:34I think women's cricket, the pay parity factor, it's a bit of a smoke and mirrors, according to me, because you're promising them the same amount of money, but they don't play the same amount of games.
09:46You know, so you can play 15 lakh rupees a test match, but if women are not going to play test matches, what's the point?
09:52You know, so they don't play that many games.
09:54And you're looking then at your retainership contracts. You need to have that at least at par.
09:59And you can see, because of the fact that the WPL has been put into place, you have been able to get all this talent coming through.
10:06You had 10 debutants, I think, in a World Cup in this team.
10:10Also, the fact that the performance bonus, as it's called, the 50 crores that have been given, is unequal to what the men got for a 2020 win, which is 125.
10:19And the moment you say it's unequal, everyone starts getting a little bit prickly and bristly and saying, oh no, but you know, it's okay, it's fine, it's the women.
10:27And you're talking about TV rights and media rights. That's not the business of the women.
10:31It's not the business of the women to get TV rights money. It's the business of the PCCI to get the money, to market the women's game, to run the women's game as a separate vertical in their, you know, that's why I'm saying I'm 50-50.
10:41I don't want to be a grump and a grouch, and I'm very happy for the women. And may they get more rewards and awards.
10:49Okay, you know, today is not a day to be, I guess, where we can keep the grouses and the grumpiness for another day and discuss that also.
10:58But Mitali, do you believe that somewhere self-belief has come in? That's the big difference.
11:05The belief that they can do it, they rub shoulders with the Australian players, for example, regularly in the WPL.
11:11So, the self-belief has come into the game in a manner that perhaps was not the case in the past.
11:17When Asharda rightly put it, there was a time when women's cricket was not even recognized in the way that it should have been.
11:23I've seen stories of how difficult it was for some of you to actually continue to play the sport.
11:28See, I think the belief has come from WPL. It has definitely transformed women's cricket, I would say.
11:36There's three seasons, you know, every time the players are put into the current situation during the franchise league.
11:43We've seen some amazing innings, you know, matches getting into that super over in Bengaluru.
11:49Every game in the franchise league is tight.
11:51And when you find an Indian player in that situation, time and again, you eventually find a way out of that current situation.
11:58You'll find a way how to get going through those situations.
12:02Those experiences help you then when you're competing at the global events.
12:06You know that you've already gone through those experiences.
12:08Let's say for Richa Ghosh, she comes into that particular role in T20s as a hitter in the last five overs.
12:15And the same role was given to her in this World Cup as well in that batting lineup.
12:19And she pretty much knows how to go about.
12:22If we talk about Harman Freeth Kaur, the innings against Gujarat Giants in Delhi, single-handedly she took the match away.
12:28So, if you consistently are in that situation, you sort of understand your game well.
12:33There is better awareness of it.
12:35And there is that self-belief that, yes, in this situation, out of five games, I'm able to get the team out of three times.
12:41So, that's where you build on the confidence and the belief.
12:44And without support, without resources to prepare for this big event, I don't think you would have the wings to soar.
12:52A huge credit to BCCI.
12:54Yes, the things that Sharda spoke, it's for another day.
12:58But BCCI has definitely made a lot of, you know, they've gotten a number of games before this event.
13:07India has stood England, they've played England, they've played Australia.
13:11They've got this number of ODI games before a World Cup to prepare them well.
13:15They've got camps, they've had particularly skill camps, whether it is batting camps or bowling camps,
13:21getting camps in the venues where they are going to play more games during this tournament, whether it is Wysak or it is Mumbai.
13:27So, I think everything has got the team to perform the way they did.
13:32Yes, you know, credit should go to the players, to the support staff.
13:37Indian team has about 18 to 20 support staff minus the 15 member squad.
13:42So, you can understand, like, you know, how much BCCI has worked in the last two, three years to give them that resources and facilities.
13:50I'm sure if the same amount of support was given to the former players at the times of 80s and 90s,
13:56we would probably have had a better result as well in terms of the World Cup and the matches that they've played.
14:02You know, in a sense, therefore, Dayana Edulji, there are those who are calling this India's 1983 moment,
14:12likening it to what Kapil Dev achieved, broke a barrier, India wins the World Cup, defeats the mighty West Indies,
14:18here we defeat the mighty Australians in the semi.
14:20Is this a 1983 moment?
14:22In a way, are we going to, in your view, see women's cricket now go to another level?
14:29Rajiv, I would actually say the turning point came in 2017, you know, when we entered the finals at Lourdes
14:36and just missed out on that big, we just lost by eight runs.
14:42That is when everybody woke up and started recognising women's cricket.
14:47So, I would say, in a way, yes, 83 moment, but this victory has given much more than what 83 guys got.
14:58So, that is the only difference.
14:59So, Sharta shouldn't complain.
15:01In 83, the men hardly got any money, but the women are getting a lot of money here.
15:06So, I don't grudge it at all.
15:08I'm happy.
15:09I want more, definitely.
15:13Yeah, Rajiv.
15:15Right.
15:16We all want more.
15:17We all want more in whatever profession we do, but Sharda Ugra, is this an 83 moment?
15:22Or is this a bit like 2011?
15:25I mean, I'm trying to draw parallels, maybe wrongly, with the men's game,
15:29but the belief, that self-belief, the ability to hand pressure situations,
15:33to find new stars like Jemima, to find wonderful stories like that of a Harman Preet or a Deepti Sharma,
15:40all of which seems to suggest that we have created...
15:43Women's cricket now has a story to tell.
15:45In fact, women's sport, if you look at PB Sindhu, the Sanya Mirzas, all of them have stories to tell.
15:51Yeah, I agree with Diana here.
15:54It's not exactly the 83 moment in that sense, because that's the male lens that you're looking at at the women's game,
16:00which I think 2017 was breakout for the simple reason that you had those matches on television for the first time.
16:07And everyone across the country could switch on their television and see how extraordinary these players were,
16:12who they were, what their skill sets were, what they were able to do.
16:17And this win, what it's going to do, it's going to literally accelerate this growth and development
16:23and popularity of women's cricket.
16:25So maybe it's more 2011 or maybe perhaps maybe a post-IPL type of thing, that's the closest I can get to it.
16:31But we don't need to actually compare it with sort of the male history, because the women have their own root and their own path.
16:37And I think what it will do is certainly break open a lot.
16:42A lot of these girls in this team, more than half of them are sort of successors of this 2017 story that happened.
16:52You know, so Harman and Smriti are followed in the footsteps of Julan and Mitali.
16:57But all the girls that are later, the younger girls, they all are Harman and Smriti's sort of successors and after them.
17:04And they belong to that 20, they are the followers of that 2017 class.
17:08And now everyone who's watched this on TV, thousands and millions of girls around the world are going to say,
17:13I want to be there, I want to do that also.
17:16That number, that almost explosion of talent that they're going to see.
17:19And you're seeing it in every way, every time something happens.
17:22You see there's some 17-year-old playing something.
17:25You know, you hear of names and stories and people coming from all corners of the country.
17:30Most of these girls, half of them came from the, they were not from the big cities.
17:33They were from the smaller towns.
17:36Harman Preeti herself is from Moga.
17:38Smriti is from Sangli.
17:39You know, so you have that kind of pattern play itself in another way, in its own way and its own shape.
17:48Either way, you know, we are smiling through all of this.
17:52And that's why I think I feel emotional at one level because there's an innocence to the sport, which you see when women's cricket celebrates, the way in which they celebrate a wicket, the way in which they came together.
18:05You almost feel as if sport is alive and to see the power of 50, as I call it, the power of 50, meaning 50% of the population really expressing itself.
18:16Maybe they will inspire many others across various fields of activity to aim big.
18:21So that's why it was a very, very special day in Mumbai.
18:26And we all have a smile on our face this Monday night.
18:29What can I say?
18:30Thank you, Harman Preet.
18:31And thank you to the entire Indian team.
18:34You are all total rock stars.
18:37And to all my guests, thank you so much for joining me here.
18:40Yes, Dinah, you want to say something?
18:4230 seconds.
18:44Yeah, Rajdeep.
18:45I just want to say, I just want to say that I would like to praise ICC for promoting women's cricket so much.
18:54The way they have bumped into global promotion of women's cricket, Mr. Jais Shah is doing a wonderful job.
19:01Okay, you know, Mr. Jais Shah has often been targeted as a Nipo kid by his critics.
19:12But you have to give Jais Shah some of the credit for the fact that he has driven women's cricket, at least given them space in the last few years.
19:21And all credit to BCCI.
19:24When you do good things, we will praise you.
19:26But thank you all very much for joining us here on the show today.
19:31Thank you, Rajdeep.
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