00:00Субтитры сделал DimaTorzok
00:30Thank you very much for joining us on Euronews.
00:32Now, the obvious question is, was this an incident or is this the start of something perhaps more sinister, a hybrid threat?
00:39We stopped treating it as the incident.
00:42There are too many of those and the Belarusian regime is in full control of the situation on their side of the border.
00:49In purpose, they would see the situation different and they would be interested in changing it.
00:57They have all the tools and they do as the minimum nothing.
01:00And we were, as Lithuania, threatened very directly by Lukashenko that he will use cross-border crime as the tool to put the pressure on us.
01:09And this is another case that he is using it.
01:11That was illegal migration.
01:13Now it is the meteorological balloons.
01:15And can we ask you, of course, the government has said that it will shut them down, that it would also consult with NATO and European allies.
01:22But I wonder when it comes specifically to the balloons, do you know what's in it?
01:25Did you have time to assess them?
01:27And what's the conclusion so far?
01:29They are big meteorological balloons that are filled up with different gas.
01:35And the size of the cargo on it is up to 30, 40 kilograms.
01:40So this is a huge object in the sky.
01:42And the thing is, when they are letting them out from Belarus and because of the wind, it goes into our airspace and it disrupts our civil aviation.
01:51So already last week, more than 100 flights were disrupted.
01:54They were reorganized or rerouted to alternative airports.
01:59And there were more than 10,000 of passengers that felt the consequences of it.
02:04And, of course, it goes with another collateral damage that is done by these activities.
02:08So we know what is in there.
02:10Basically, those are the cigarettes, but the very substances of the less matter than about the carriage, the very system, the meteorological balloons in themselves.
02:21And can I ask you, you have said that when European leaders stayed together, dictators backed down.
02:28Obviously, that's a reference to Lukashenko.
02:29Just very simply, do you want to see more sanctions in Belarus and are you going to get them?
02:34Yes, we want to see not only solidarity, that we are really thankful and for the same political assessment of the situation,
02:41that it is the hybrid attack against one of the EU member states.
02:45And we want the sanction regime to be strengthened against Belarus.
02:49That's the first step.
02:50We have to put additional criteria for sanctions.
02:53That's the hybrid activities against the EU.
02:56We haven't done it yet.
02:57It is for Russia, but not for Belarus.
02:59And then we should go through the sectors.
03:01And one of those sectors is aviation, for example.
03:04That is not yet sanctioned.
03:05And, of course, all the other financial institutions.
03:08Belarusian regime has to feel consequences for the activities that they do.
03:13And it's our obligation to respond.
03:16And, sir, obviously you talked about Lukashenko and Belarus, but I have to wonder, is Russia in some way connected?
03:22Because you yourself, you've talked about this very deep connection between the two of them.
03:27And in a way, Belarus is taking orders from Russia, certainly when it comes to Ukraine.
03:31So do you see a connection?
03:33And ultimately, do you believe this is a Russian strategy to create chaos in the European air traffic?
03:37We see that these are the actions of Belarusian regime right now, with the assistance on allowing the crime being organized across the border.
03:50And, of course, it plays into the hand of Russia.
03:53And the consequences are the same as they are trying to impose on us with the GRU, for example, operations in our region.
04:01That is the goal to increase the tension in society, to decrease the trust in the government, and also decrease the support to Ukraine.
04:09So it is one element from the broader strategy.
04:13But to claim right now that it's in a full coordination, we need additional data.
04:17We are not manipulating and speculating about it.
04:20That's why we are very exact when we are saying this is the hybrid and this is the Belarusian regime.
04:24Okay, so at this point you're not making that assessment yet?
04:27Not yet.
04:27What kind of feedback are you getting from NATO, but also what kind of questions would you like to bring to the table when it comes to NATO?
04:34We should address it as the hybrid activity.
04:37NATO also has the capabilities in countering hybrid activities, the special dedicated team, the analysis, and also some tools.
04:44So we need this assessment as the minimum.
04:47And then moving from this on, we will see what additional measures are needed for our air defense.
04:52This falls into the broader topic and spectrum of the air defense capabilities.
04:56So that we so badly need in the region, that is integrated air and missile defense that would be effective and deter the fighter jets that are violating our airspace.
05:05Last week, two fighter jets violated our airspace, NATO airspace.
05:10We need credible systems that would deter that.
05:12And also we need the specific elements that would be countering drones.
05:18Now drones also entered our airspace.
05:20One of them was with explosives.
05:21So now we have meteorological balloons.
05:23Everything that is happening in airspace, that's the NATO responsibility.
05:27Absolutely.
05:28But the question is, and this is a follow-up question, this is NATO's responsibility.
05:31But the fact that they keep happening and in such a short amount of time, what it would signal is that whoever is doing this,
05:37I know you don't want to make the connection with Russia and you say this is Belarus at this point.
05:41But what they seem to believe is that they get away with it because your response is simply weak.
05:46So how are you going to change that?
05:48That's the point.
05:49That's the very exact point.
05:51If we cannot deter by denial, we cannot just deny our airspace and the entering, then we have to deter by punishment.
05:59And these leverages of punishment, these tools are sanctions, first of all.
06:04And the very exact and strong message, it is not allowed and you will suffer damage for what you're doing because you are causing damage on our side.
06:13So this is how it has to work until the point when they would stop these activities.
06:18We have very good examples how we manage the situation, for example, with disrupting the critical infrastructure in the Baltic Sea
06:26or with the recent, with the drones activities, it dramatically dropped.
06:31There are no drones now entering our airspace after the Eastern Century operation was launched by NATO.
06:36So same with the air balloons, we have to put measures that would work for Belarus.
06:41And this is pressure, nothing else.
06:43And if you put them forward, however, do you believe there could be any form of retaliation from Belarus?
06:47Are we going to enter now a permanent period of escalation?
06:50I think that they would review what they're doing.
06:52I won't guess around what's their goal, but they would stop doing it because if they see that there is a damage done,
07:00they cannot operate in the way as they did previously.
07:03And we will go our path till the very end, as we did with instrumentalized migration.
07:10We brought Belarus to the International Court of Justice.
07:13So for these activities, we will calculate all the damage that is done,
07:17and we will also require the response from the country and also the accountability of the country that is involved there, Belarus.
07:24And, sir, you talked about the drones and anti-drones that you will need.
07:29Of course, a commission pitched the idea of a drone world, but that created a mixed debate, mixed reactions from your European counterparts.
07:38Some of them believe simply the European Union cannot recreate an iron dome.
07:42That is not objective, is not realistic.
07:45What steps, however, do you want to see from the eastern flank?
07:48It has to be strengthened, and resilience has to be built here on the eastern flank.
07:55I would prefer to call it the front line because of the so many activities that are happening here.
08:00If we cannot deter it, then we are moving through the spiral of escalation to another level,
08:07and that another level can be very hot, and we want to avoid this.
08:10So it's much cheaper to build the deterrence in the peacetime
08:13than to build the capabilities and reserves and everything that is needed for the wartime.
08:17So we have to invest now.
08:19We have the good initiatives, good flagship projects.
08:21One of them is counter-drone wall.
08:24Also, we have the eastern flank watch initiative coming from commission.
08:27We have to implement it.
08:29And if someone has doubts why to invest here,
08:32then that person or that country will see the consequences in their land
08:36because it will go deeper into the Europe.
08:39So it's time to invest it here and to build the resilience that can be then copied elsewhere in the continental Europe.
08:45And do your European counterparts understand that?
08:48Because when the idea of the drone wall was presented,
08:50some of the southern European countries said it's not just about the eastern flank.
08:54This is a full project, and it also has to include the south.
08:58So I wonder, do you feel 100% supported by everyone around the table,
09:02or is this something that's getting lost in translation here?
09:04I get more and more support and understanding about it,
09:08and also solidarity with the very recent activities with the violation of the aerospace.
09:12And I fully agree that it has to be a 360 approach,
09:17and we have to address all the security challenges that are in front of us.
09:21But right now, an immediate challenge, an immediate threat,
09:25is the aerospace violation on the eastern front line.
09:28So let's address that.
09:30We need the same capabilities elsewhere.
09:32I'm in support of this.
09:33And I truly believe that EU has to step up and put the money where the problems are,
09:38because we are not only the economic union.
09:42We are also a geopolitical actor with a very, very difficult neighborhood.
09:46And you talk about the money on the table.
09:48Lithuania is one of the biggest spenders when it comes to defense as a percentage of GDP.
09:52I also know you had very difficult budget negotiations.
09:55So the question that comes up every time is, should the European Union at this point present a plan for joint debt for defense?
10:02This was done in the pandemic.
10:04COVID was seen as an existential threat.
10:06Is defense not an existential threat for the European Union?
10:10Yes, we are reviewing our taxes.
10:12We are increasing spending.
10:14We are also borrowing.
10:15We are using the safe mechanism, European Union.
10:18If we will see that there are additional instruments needed, like joint debt also for investments,
10:23that's the way to go.
10:25What else is more important than security right now?
10:28Everything else is unimportant if we cannot provide security to our citizens.
10:32And, sir, I want to ask you just on this point a very final question,
10:34because there's obviously an aspect that is really about money.
10:37When it comes to Ukraine, it's now clear that Russia should pay for the damage and not the European taxpayer.
10:42All the European leaders agreed on that last week in Brussels.
10:45But there is still a question as to how to structure this reparations loan.
10:49What is your preference and what would you like to see?
10:52I heard all the arguments and all the considerations about the risks related to it, economic and financial.
10:59I was very open and addressed them all.
11:01And the conclusion was from our experts, from the legal experts, from financial experts,
11:05that we can deal with it.
11:07European Union has the instrument.
11:09The European Central Bank has the instruments and credibility and respect in international market
11:13to deal with the stability of Europe.
11:16And now when we have this additional model and an additional way how to organize it through loan
11:23that would be used as the guarantee for reparation,
11:27this is even more gentle way how to implement it and reduce the risk on the individual member state,
11:33be it Belgium.
11:34And it also puts the shared burden for managing the risk on the other member states.
11:41And we are ready to do this.
11:43We are ready to share this responsibility and let's go for it.
11:47Because otherwise, actually, I do not see many alternatives here.
11:50Minister, thank you so much for your time and thank you for joining us on Euronews.
11:54Thank you for having me.
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