- 3 months ago
Pandora's box is open, and the gadgets we now can't live without are having a serious impact on the planet. So what can we do?
At TechRadar, we're taking steps to encourage better practices in tech by celebrating success stories in our coverage, but also through our new Sustainability Awards in partnership with Seismic. Join Marc McLaren, our Editor-in-Chief, as he discusses how consumers and brands alike can shift the needle with Seismic's co-founder and Chief Community Officer, Andy Schmidt.
At TechRadar, we're taking steps to encourage better practices in tech by celebrating success stories in our coverage, but also through our new Sustainability Awards in partnership with Seismic. Join Marc McLaren, our Editor-in-Chief, as he discusses how consumers and brands alike can shift the needle with Seismic's co-founder and Chief Community Officer, Andy Schmidt.
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00:00We love tech, but it's not always great for the planet.
00:02From the constant update cycle to energy-hungry data centers,
00:06technology has a sustainability problem.
00:08But the good news is, things are getting better.
00:10I'm joined today by Andy Schmidt,
00:12the co-founder and chief community officer of Seismic,
00:15our partners for the TechRadar Sustainability Awards.
00:18Andy, great to meet you.
00:19Great to meet you, Mark. Thanks for having me.
00:21Let's start by talking about your background.
00:23How did you get into the sustainability space
00:25and what's driving your work right now?
00:27Yeah, so my career did not start in the sustainability space.
00:31When I started in the workplace,
00:32I don't think these sustainability career fields really even existed.
00:37I was working in the tech industry at the time.
00:40I was at Skype and I was actually, I was doing a master's program.
00:43And one of the courses in that program was on corporate social responsibility.
00:47And it was there that I realized there was kind of this,
00:49I guess, emerging career path where you got to wake up in the morning
00:54and do work that aligned with the issues that were important to you
00:57that were impacting people and planet.
01:00And the business was already doing a number of things there.
01:03And eventually, I guess my efforts,
01:06or I got on people's nerves enough that they just gave me the opportunity
01:09to head up and grow what we called our social good program.
01:14But it was really leveraging our technology, our brand, our people
01:17to help a lot of, especially non-profit organizations.
01:22And ever since kind of getting a taste of that work,
01:24I guess it's, I was bit by that bug and there's, there's been no turning back.
01:28And over the years, different opportunities.
01:30And that's what led me to found Seismic with my co-founders four years ago.
01:35What's driven me to kind of go down this career path
01:37and dedicating my life's work to, to try and help improve
01:42and how businesses, their role in society,
01:44how they can be leveraged as a force for good.
01:47And really what drives me is, is my wife and I,
01:49we've got two young children and it's, it's them wanting to give them
01:53the opportunities that I think our generation has had.
01:56And, and also maybe I feel like there's a lot of weight
01:59on young people and future generations.
02:01And when our, when our daughters are in their late teens,
02:05I don't want them to have to take to the streets
02:08because they're to protest around existential threats
02:12that they don't feel the rest of the world is taken seriously enough.
02:15I want them to be able to be teenagers and give me a few more gray hairs.
02:19Yeah, and I totally agree.
02:22It's exactly the same for, for me and for, for many of our readers
02:25and viewers, I'm sure as well.
02:27So we're obviously really familiar with Seismic
02:30from the work that you've done with us on the sustainability awards
02:33and that went brilliantly last year.
02:35We're really excited to be doing it again this year.
02:37For the benefit of our, of our readers and viewers,
02:40can you tell people a little bit more about what Seismic does
02:42and how you're striving to make change as a, as a company?
02:46Yeah, sure, Mark.
02:47And first of all, just, I think, you know, kudos to you all at TechRadar
02:52for, for taking this initiative and innovative approach
02:56to help in raising awareness and engagement on the topic of sustainability
02:59through the sustainability awards.
03:01And thank you for your partnership on it.
03:03Yeah, we're Seismic.
03:04We are a sustainability agency.
03:06We help companies achieve their business results, their commercial results
03:11by helping them understand and improve their impact on people and planet.
03:15We're trying to help 10 million people join the shift to business
03:20as a force for good by 2030.
03:21And so we're working with a number of different businesses, organizations,
03:25mostly businesses across a variety of sectors, sizes, geographies,
03:29including a fair amount in the, in the tech sector and helping them in a variety of ways.
03:34We talk a lot about measuring what matters.
03:36So measuring things like their environmental footprint and impact,
03:41how they are treating and supporting people inside of their business
03:46and through the community and through their supply chain.
03:49We use a number of different frameworks that help companies either kind of holistically
03:54or more specifically about a certain part of their impact.
03:57So things like B Corp.
03:59And we help companies with their sustainability strategies and come up
04:03with real practical, actionable plans on how to move things forward
04:08and create the change we all want to see in the world.
04:10That was an eye opening thing for me.
04:12The fact that you focus not just on the environmental side of things,
04:15but on the social side of things as well and how those two things go, go hand in hand.
04:19It's natural maybe to focus on the environmental side and it is maybe the most urgent crisis we face.
04:26So it's not inappropriate.
04:27And at the same time, everything is so interconnected, right?
04:30If we, if we try to solve one problem in isolation, we may potentially be creating knock-on effects.
04:39And so you have to take that, I think, zoomed out holistic view of things
04:43and try to understand the interconnectedness and the trade-offs of implications of moving the needle over here.
04:50What are the knock-on effects of that?
04:52Yeah, it's, it's complex at times.
04:54Yeah, the world is complex.
04:57So obviously the technology industry in particular has some challenges around sustainability.
05:02What do you think are the most urgent challenges that they, that companies need to get on top of right now?
05:07It's not a short list to buy, by any means.
05:10And I think that's, that's not exclusive to the tech sector.
05:13You know, lots, lots of businesses are trying to tackle a myriad of challenges that they face
05:19around both the good and the positive effects they're having in the world
05:23and the negative impacts of their activities, operations.
05:28What a core is, if you think about that environmental side of things, things like your greenhouse gas emissions,
05:35also known as carbon emissions.
05:37So what your business, your activities, importantly, maybe even more importantly,
05:42it's not just your core businesses operations.
05:45It's also the emissions that happen through the creation of your products or the delivery of your services
05:51from your suppliers and your supply chain.
05:54And understanding that, trying to get a good view of that through measurement
06:01and then coming up with plans to reduce those, that's probably the most important thing
06:06that any business in the tech sector can and should be focusing on, I would say, as a priority number one.
06:14And that's not easy.
06:15It is a complicated process, especially because there's so many dependencies on other organizations.
06:19And so it's kind of an exercise of understanding, measurement, engaging, influencing, taking others on a journey.
06:27And that doesn't happen overnight.
06:29I would say that's probably one of the key ones.
06:31And there's a lot of other things on the environmental side as well, related especially to products.
06:37There's a lot around waste, both in the creation of those products, also in the ongoing life of those products.
06:44What happens, how many, how many of them are sitting in people's drawers, desk drawers at the office or at home?
06:50How many of them end up out back in a landfill?
06:53How can you most efficiently and effectively, how can the companies and the sector as a whole,
06:58make sure that those are not ending up in landfills, not having a negative impact on the planet?
07:04And ideally, how can those resources be reused in a way so that you can take less out of the earth?
07:11You know, a lot of the metals and materials that go into the creation of products.
07:17There's extractive activities that need to get those through mining out of the earth.
07:21And that's also very challenging for the planet.
07:24And unfortunately, a lot of the mining practices also don't have the best people practices around them.
07:33So I think probably a lot for the tech sector, a lot of it is focused on that supply chain and supplier engagement.
07:40And a lot of times these challenges are quite vast.
07:43And so, you know, one business can have its, has its impact and its influence.
07:50But it's oftentimes businesses need to collaborate to actually tackle these challenges.
07:55And I don't know if that's, you know, I think we're starting to maybe see a bit more of it,
07:59but that's maybe a place or a direction that the sector can go as a whole, a little bit more collaboration.
08:08And we see it in other areas, you know, I mentioned in the introduction, we do a lot of work around using the B Corp framework.
08:15I don't know if you're familiar with that.
08:17And what we see from the B Corp community is there is a, I think, a recognition that a lot of these challenges that any business or sector faces are too complex for one business to tackle or to crack or to solve on their own.
08:33So we see a lot of collaboration there.
08:35You see companies that are competing for revenue and market share and consumers' attention and time actually collaborating on social and environmental challenges.
08:46And I think that would be maybe my invitation to the tech sector is to lean into that a bit more.
08:51Yeah, because it all comes down to the supply chains a lot of the time, doesn't it?
08:53And, you know, so many companies will use parts and products from, from other companies and obviously, you know, they can only, they can do so much themselves, but then how can they influence their partners to be doing something good as well?
09:06So, yeah, I mean, it's, it's a complex, a complex business.
09:10That might be an area where the tech sector could take some inspiration from businesses that are doing innovative things, solving similar challenges, but that aren't in their sector.
09:21A couple of examples that kind of come to mind, there is a, in the Netherlands, there's a Dutch jeans company called Mud Jeans, and they're really focused on circularity.
09:34So a model that really focuses on the use of the materials that go into their products.
09:41So you have a couple of options.
09:43If you're a Mud Jeans consumer, you can buy those jeans outright or you can lease the jeans.
09:49So you pay a monthly subscription, I think it's around 10, 11 euros or something, and you get that pair of jeans for a year.
09:57At the end of the year, you send those jeans back and you get a brand new pair of jeans, you keep paying your monthly subscription.
10:04And then the company, they take those jeans and they shred them apart, take all the materials and use that to go into the creation of a new pair of jeans.
10:12Another example that comes to mind, this is a business we're fortunate enough to work with.
10:18They're really, really pioneers in their industry.
10:21So Monica Venator, they are a jewelry business and they're doing some great things around recycling, using recycled gold and silver.
10:30I don't know the percentage, but they're able to source a lot of the gold that they need, therefore reducing the amount of mining that they need to do to create products for their customers.
10:39I know they launched last year a specific line where they're working with a mine and that mine is completely operated by women.
10:47And in doing that, what I learned from them was that they're really creating a lot of financial independence, a lot of empowerment opportunities for those women in these developing emerging countries and communities and for their families and communities around them.
11:03So I think there's some examples that maybe the tech sector can look to for inspiration and learnings from outside of the industry as well.
11:11Well, that's a nice segue into the TechRadar Sustainability Awards because, you know, that's I think maybe the kind of thing where we might hope that some companies would see that and take inspiration from that as well.
11:22So how important do you think those kind of external awards and recognitions are for driving change?
11:28I think they're quite powerful.
11:29I mean, there's a number of different awards in sustainability and in different areas.
11:35And I think, you know, when they're done well, you can see that it's it provides a proof point.
11:41It provides inspiration.
11:43It provides concrete examples that others can can learn from.
11:48And I think it can help really quite accelerate the challenging of the status quo.
11:54I think in any industry, any sector, you see a lot of times that's just the way things are done.
11:59Yeah, that might work over there, but it's not going to work here.
12:02And then finally, someone's breaking that status quo, shining a light on it, helps others see that you can step out of the model as well and find new ways to solve things.
12:13And in sustainability as a whole, I think we see sometimes organizations, teams, businesses getting really stuck in that trying to make sure they've got everything just right before they really move forward or before they start talking about it or engaging their consumers or the wider market or the stakeholders.
12:33And I think we generally try and encourage businesses and teams to lean into progress over perfection.
12:39This is a journey, right?
12:40Nobody's got it right yet.
12:42There's some amazing businesses and brands out there like the Patagonias of the world are on a journey.
12:49They haven't figured it all out yet and they've been at it for decades.
12:53And then I do think the other part about it, which is what I'm so proud about our partnership, is making sure that there is a credible framework behind it.
13:00This can't just be because a lot of businesses are doing something good, but you have to take a bit of view of the wider picture as well.
13:09Make sure they've, again, not perfection, but they've got their house in order to a certain degree.
13:14Well, talking about the winners of the inaugural awards last year, so we had three winners.
13:20We had Acer, Bang & Olufsen, and Ecosend.
13:24Yeah.
13:24What stood out about their entries particularly?
13:27First of all, a lot of great entries overall.
13:30And I think these three very deserving recipients of the inaugural awards.
13:36A couple of things that I recall from their stories and their nominations.
13:43Acer, I think what stood out for me and us from them was, you know, this isn't new to them.
13:49They've been doing this for a long time.
13:51I think if I remember, they'd started measuring their greenhouse gas emissions.
13:552011 or so, I think.
13:57So what's that?
13:58You know, well over a decade, almost 15 years of that.
14:02And it's interesting, you know, talking about a journey, measuring your greenhouse gas emissions.
14:07What we see when we're helping companies on this, our teams doing this day in and day out.
14:11And it is a journey because, you know, getting the data you need to measure your own footprint of the direct operations of your businesses, that's the easier part.
14:23But then you need to also get similar data from your suppliers.
14:27And that just takes time.
14:29And so the fact, though, that Acer has been doing this for 15 or so years, that means our impression is they've just embedded this as business as usual.
14:38They're really properly committed to it.
14:39For sure.
14:40For sure.
14:40And I think I can't remember what the percentage was.
14:43But they've also seen pretty significant reductions already against the kind of baseline year, which they had set, which was a few years ago.
14:52So that's that's great progress.
14:53And, you know, businesses are really good at operational performance and the rigor that goes behind it and then applying that to social and environmental performance.
15:04And I think that's what stood out to us from Acer is they've been at this long enough that that's probably where they're at.
15:11They're able to apply that.
15:12And another one that stood out for me was I think they've got a really strong commitment and already progress.
15:17And that's what, again, from Acer stood out.
15:19It's not just the commitment.
15:21They're already seeing measurable improvements, which is fantastic.
15:25And I know it was on the within their supply chain on the people side.
15:28I think they had a commitment of 75 percent or so of their tier one.
15:34So their immediate suppliers, they were engaging with them and asking them to make sure that their workers were paid a living wage,
15:42a fair living wage, which is just it's fantastic as well.
15:45And I think they'd already make great progress against that.
15:47Yeah. I mean, bang bang and all of a sudden, I think they were doing a lot of work around the circularity upcycling and recycling products and using them again for new things.
15:58I think that was a large part of their entry.
16:00They were using, again, another framework like B Corp is cradle to cradle, which is really like, I would say, very high standard recognition of that circular approach.
16:13So making sure very efficient use of resources and resources that after our products and life are able to be reused in some way.
16:23And so I think they've got a number of their product lines already on that cradle to cradle certification, which means, you know, they're taking it very seriously and it's verified by an independent third body.
16:35And I think they've got a commitment to really increase that. So it's a really high standard.
16:39And if I remember correctly as well, similarly, I think they have used measuring their greenhouse gas emissions and they have signed up to what's called a science based target.
16:50And that's been reviewed by another organization called the Science Based Target Initiative.
16:55So they have in order to do that, you typically have to map out a plan to reduce your greenhouse gas emissions over time in line with what climate science tells us we have to do in order to avoid the worst effects of climate change.
17:09So that's a really strong commitment. And then I think, you know, just I think they're from what we learned, they're introducing the reuse of or secondhand products into their product line, which, you know, for a premium, any type of premium product or premium brand, especially in the technology space, that's quite innovative.
17:28And I think it's a big bet. And we want to recognize the ambition they've set there.
17:33Yep. And I think Ecosend was an interesting one to me because it's the kind of thing that you don't think about emails, just something you do all the time.
17:40And, you know, so tackling something like that and everyday problem of, well, hang on, all of those emails do add up somehow.
17:46Then, you know, that was something that stood out to me about their application.
17:50Yeah, absolutely. I think it is a great example of how specific we can get.
17:55And if what Ecosend is doing, you know, looking at email marketing campaigns specifically, I know the data that was shared, that research they had on the industry, it's not insignificant.
18:05You know, kudos to them for finding a honing in their business model on a very specific element and the work that they're doing over there.
18:13That innovation, that really laser sharp focus, I think we appreciate it as well.
18:17It feels like there's always a debate between what drives change and progress more.
18:23Is it consumer sentiment and effectively people voting with their wallets or is it about corporate accountability?
18:31And where do you think the balance lies between those two things at the moment?
18:34It's a timely question, I would say.
18:37And we talk about it at Seismic is a lot of things and in particular to this question, kind of a pendulum.
18:43And the pendulum can swing one way and then can swing the other.
18:48And, you know, I think in the last five years, we've seen the corporate accountability pendulum swing quite strongly in a positive direction.
18:57Businesses were really stepping up their commitments, their ambitions, their investments, their actions.
19:03And it was really kind of a leapfrog, I would say.
19:05I think we might we are seeing some examples of maybe some of the businesses at least communicating that they're slowing down.
19:15I think there's a there's a bit of analysis that's coming out right now that some businesses are actually choosing not to talk as much about their sustainability efforts,
19:26but actually aren't planning to slow down or backtrack.
19:29And then there are some businesses that have clearly communicated they are going in slightly a different direction right now.
19:35I think there's a fair amount of maybe geopolitical influence at play there.
19:40So I think that pendulum might be swinging back this way a bit.
19:45But I think what we've also seen is that when there has been a swing of a pendulum in one way or maybe even a bit of a void in leadership around sustainability and the role of business and the role of wider society in its impact on the planet and how we all look after each other as people.
20:07I think we've noticed that some other actors or players typically do step up to fill that void, and I think, you know, we've seen it at times where that the business community has then stepped up or I think consumers, I think we're seeing some of it consumers voting more strongly with their wallets for the brands and businesses that are staying the course or leaning in even further to how they can have a positive impact on people and planet.
20:34And I think that's probably what I would predict is what we're going to see for the next while until the pendulum swings back the other way.
20:41As far as consumers go, there may be people thinking kind of, this is all great, but I don't know how I'm supposed to know what the best things to choose are and what kind of things can they do?
20:51What can they look for and what kind of habits can they get into maybe to do their own sustainability journey as far as technology goes, at least?
20:59Yeah, well, I guess I think, you know, what you all are doing is a great source for them, right?
21:06You're shining a light on organizations that you've done your homework on, so they don't necessarily have to.
21:11Well, you've done the homework.
21:12Sure, sure, sure.
21:14And, but I think that's a great resource.
21:16You know, it's, everybody wants to make informed decisions as best they can as consumers.
21:21And, but it's sometimes challenging to sift through all of the data and information and think about the different, you know, you want a quality product or service that suits your needs, fit for you within your budgets and align with what your kind of values are.
21:38So I think what you all are doing is absolutely fantastic and is a great source.
21:42And then there are different things that consumers can just generally look for, like the B Corp label, you know, if you see that B Corp logo or the science-based target initiative one, SBTI or Cradle to Cradle, there's a number of frameworks out there, but, and it's good for an individual to maybe do a little of their homework on that to see which one aligns with what's important to them.
22:06But typically when you see those, that means that that business has, and some of these are at the business level, some of them are at the product level, but that whatever it is that the consumer is looking at has gone through a process.
22:18And again, it's not perfect by any means, but you can have a higher level of confidence that they're looking at an element of that, of that business or that product, and that it's being held to a higher standard.
22:29And then I do think, you know, whether it's the work at TechRadar or the work of organizations like B Corp and science-based target initiatives, or the businesses themselves, that more and more companies are creating a sustainability report or an impact report, trying to be more transparent with their journey.
22:50And what's quite nice to see is a lot of times, it's maybe not what I would think of as traditional corporate speak, where it's just everything's fine and shiny, but they're telling, they're sharing the good, the bad and the ugly along the way increasingly, which is refreshing to see.
23:06And so I think as consumers, you know, educating yourself and getting informed and looking at what resources you have in order to make an informed decision.
23:15And as far as the companies go, I mean, I guess there's going to be a bit of a difference between maybe a small company without many employees or thinking kind of, what can I do?
23:26This feels so big and scary.
23:28Where do I even start?
23:29Or equally, potentially as complicated if you're a really big organization with, you know, tens of thousands of employees of thinking kind of, how can I turn this around somehow?
23:38What's some advice you've got for companies at either end of the scale who are thinking kind of, how can we start on this journey?
23:44I think from getting started, it's just get started.
23:48You know, don't, don't, again, I think we do see that at times where, you know, whether it's a team in time and organization that has an official remit to go and do something around sustainability, or it's an individual or a few individuals that are passionate about it and want to create change.
24:07Sometimes they can get stuck in a place of, we don't have it all figured out and we don't have, we got a little bit of a plan, but it's not a perfect plan.
24:15And that, you can just get stuck there.
24:18So I think first thing is just to get started, realize nobody's got it all figured out.
24:22Everyone's trying to figure it out as they go along and doing the best they can.
24:25Something's better than nothing ultimately.
24:27Absolutely, absolutely. And then I think there's, you know, what, think about, you're also not the first one starting out.
24:33So learn from others. What, what can you do to make the journey easier and, and more effective and more enjoyable?
24:41And, you know, sometimes using these frameworks can be quite a useful thing to help map out a journey or what good looks like.
24:48So look into B Corp. If you're looking for something quite holistic, look at science-based target initiatives.
24:54If you want to focus on your environmental carbon impact from the business, look at things like living wage.
25:02If you want to think about your, making sure your, your, your business is creating a fair and inclusive economy and society.
25:09That'd probably be second piece of advice.
25:13Well, we very much enjoyed you spending your time with us today.
25:16So thank you very much, Andy.
25:18And we'll be looking forward to the Tech Radar Sustainability Awards 2025 coming up reasonably soon.
25:25Great. Thank you, Mark. Appreciate it.
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