La Commissaria europea Lahbib: "Non consideriamo Hamas come un interlocutore"
In una lunga intervista esclusiva con Euronews, la Commissaria dell’Ue per la gestione delle crisi, Hadja Lahbib, parla del ruolo del blocco in Medio Oriente e in Ucraina e difende il suo Paese, il Belgio
ALTRE INFORMAZIONI : http://it.euronews.com/2025/10/28/la-commissaria-europea-lahbib-non-consideriamo-hamas-come-un-interlocutore
00:00Welcome to the Europe Conversation, I'm Stefan Grobe.
00:11In the European Commission, she's in charge of promoting equality and inclusion and upholding minorities' rights, women's rights, LGBTQ rights, and she's working on a new anti-racism strategy.
00:24She's also responsible for crisis management and civil preparedness and strengthening international cooperation and humanitarian diplomacy.
00:33Now, if that is not a crucial portfolio, I don't know what is.
00:38So, I'm excited to be joined by EU Commissioner Hadja Labib.
00:42Welcome to the program, it's a pleasure to have you here.
00:44Thank you for having me, Stefan.
00:46So, let me start by asking you about the situation in the Middle East.
00:51You have expressed hope that work on a two-state solution can begin soon and it shouldn't be a mere slogan.
01:00Now, today, are you more hopeful or less hopeful about this?
01:04It's clear that the ceasefire has opened a window of hope.
01:10We all saw the hostages back in Israel embracing their beloved one.
01:17But we also saw, as well, millions of Palestinians going back and in a sea of rubble, without home, without nothing, by the way.
01:32And so, the urgency is now to alleviate the suffering, to recover and to provide humanitarian aid.
01:41And that's exactly what we are doing.
01:44This is the second phase of the humanitarian agreement.
01:49The Israeli authorities agreed to let 600 trucks per day to enter into Gaza, but we are not there yet.
01:59And so, we asked the Israeli authorities to keep their promises.
02:06The winter is coming. The situation is dramatic with population, which is starving, children and women to the breach of the famine.
02:18There is a famine and we want to avoid this famine to spread.
02:22What can you do as European Union, as European Commission, as EU to accelerate that process?
02:30To put the pressure. And you know that we proposed, as a commission, to lift partially the association agreement.
02:39This is a tool that we have. It's a leverage.
02:43And that's why we decided, the previous Foreign Affairs Council, to let this tool on the table to say,
02:51look, the Israelis are, the government is our first partner. We are their first trade partners.
03:01And we are the first global humanitarian donor of the Palestinian authorities.
03:08So, with this balanced approach, we need also to be sure that all rules or principles are respected.
03:17And you certainly heard about the Article 2 of the Association Agreement, who asked our partner to respect human rights.
03:26Now, you have been very critical towards Israel already when you were Belgian Foreign Minister.
03:32I'm not critical. I'm balanced and just.
03:36Okay. But you advocated a stronger European stance.
03:40On the other side, Benjamin Netanyahu has said, on this program, that Europe has become irrelevant
03:47and that some European countries' positions amount to supporting Hamas.
03:53How do we go from here? How can we improve relations with Israel?
03:57You know, I don't like to speak about improving our relation with Israel.
04:04It's about improving the humanitarian law, the international humanitarian law,
04:11and to remind that there are rules to be respected, conventions, Geneva Convention,
04:18that ask that every state that is occupying a territory to be sure that the population received basic help, aid.
04:33And we are there to provide this aid.
04:36We have tons, tons of goods waiting at the border, at the Rafa crossing.
04:42And I repeat that part of the agreement is also the delivery of humanitarian aid.
04:50We want to see waves of trucks entering into Gaza.
04:54So, we are in a sea of destruction.
04:59Ninety percent of the buildings are completely destroyed.
05:04It gives you a glimpse of what is at stake.
05:08Let me go back to Netanyahu's remark that Europe is irrelevant.
05:13Did he have a point here?
05:15Where do you see Europe's footprint in the diplomacy, the ongoing diplomacy?
05:21We have been involved in the region as an honest broker for decades.
05:26For Israel, we are the first economic partners.
05:30For Palestinians, we are the first global donor, humanitarian donor.
05:35But also, we are supporting the improvement, the reform of the governance of the Palestinian authorities.
05:42And it is in the interest of the Palestinians, but also in the interest of the Israelis,
05:48to have a strong, robust governance, a Palestinian authority who is recognized, who is democratic.
05:56And we are helping them to reform.
05:59And we are ready to play our role, be it by UBAM, the EU border mission of assistance,
06:10by also training with the policemen, with UCOPs.
06:14We have a lot of programs, but we need good faith from both sides.
06:21And we are talking with all parties.
06:24And another thing is that, you know, within our European Union, we have a diversity of opinions,
06:30of histories as well.
06:31That is a very friendly description of the situation.
06:34Yes.
06:35But also it shows that, you know, from us emerge a compromise, which is also the right balance
06:45between those who feel close to the Israeli governments and the others.
06:50On this point, and you were just saying that Europe speaks to everybody.
06:54I think eventually it boils down to the question, will Hamas disarm and move the ceasefire agreement forward?
07:05Do you see this happening?
07:07I mean, the whole thing looks pretty fragile right now, but will they do that?
07:14And if they don't want to do that, can Europe put the pressure on Hamas?
07:19Hamas is not an interlocutor for us.
07:22It's a terrorist group.
07:25The plan is clear.
07:27We need to see Hamas disarmed and not being part of the two-state solution.
07:35We don't want the extremists on board from both sides, I have to say.
07:40And it was also clear when we organized, I was then Minister of Foreign Affairs, the day
07:45after conference with the Arab countries, with the Saudi Arabia, and it was also on the table when France,
07:54with the EU, organized the conference that leads to the recognition of the Palestinian states
08:01from many member states within the EU.
08:04And for us it's clear, Hamas is not part of the future.
08:08And how do you bring them to put the arms down?
08:11Because this is the…
08:13with our commitment, with our help, with our diplomatic pressure, and also our dialogue,
08:21our constant dialogue with the Arab countries.
08:26Yeah.
08:27One more question concerning the reconstruction of Gaza.
08:30You've said how the situation is, and this is typically a situation where Europe is very strong,
08:39helping with money, with expertise, humanitarian aid, etc.
08:45Now, some observers suggest that Europe may lose this spot because the Gulf states are more and more active,
08:55diplomatically, financially, economically.
08:58Do you see this potentially happening, that Europe is further pushed to the sidelines here, to the benefit of the Gulf states?
09:08I don't think so.
09:09I'm rather convinced, to the contrary.
09:12We are sitting at the table.
09:14We have our place as an honest broker, speaking with all parties, with the Gulf countries, but also with the Americans, with the Israelis.
09:23And we have this expertise.
09:26And we have this expertise.
09:27We are supporting.
09:28We are the first humanitarian donor, but also in cooperation, in development, we are really involved.
09:33And we are supporting also the Palestinian Authority to reform, to become democratic countries, to organize in a near future, we hope also universal elections and so on,
09:50and to regain also the trust of their own citizens.
09:55Let me pivot now to the war in Ukraine, if I may.
10:00I said at the beginning you are also in charge of civil preparedness.
10:05In a different sense, is the European public prepared to support Ukraine as long as it takes?
10:14This is our motto.
10:16You know, when I was Minister of Foreign Affairs, I remember we were always repeating that we will support Ukraine.
10:24as long as it takes.
10:26And we are doing so, and we will continue to do so.
10:30I have traveled a lot, many times, in Ukraine.
10:34And for instance, they are also leading by example when it comes to preparedness.
10:41And, you know, through our ecosystem, DGEco, which is under my limits, this is the largest operation ever,
10:51lead by our services, transporting more than 150,000 items, mainly generators, to help Ukraine, a country which is targeted in its civilian infrastructures,
11:09in blatant violation of international humanitarian law again.
11:14Can you talk to very concrete aspects of EU humanitarian aid?
11:19And is the situation possible, conceivable, that Europe would take in more refugees if the situation on the ground requires it?
11:30We already welcomed millions of refugees with a specific status, allowing them to work and to be really fully integrated in our societies.
11:44And it is a success.
11:46Now, when it comes to our concrete support, you know, when I was traveling there the last winter, I remember visiting schools, building in a shelter.
11:59You know, it's the only way to ensure education for Ukrainian children, but also protection of the elderly and the people with disabilities.
12:11As you mentioned, I'm also responsible for equality and to ensure that we are not leaving no one behind, and especially the most fragile in Ukraine.
12:22The last EU summit just signed off on the 19 sanctions package against Russia and continue to stand with Ukraine.
12:31At the same time, the question of frozen assets, the loan for Ukraine has been kicked down the road into the next month.
12:42What message does this send to Ukraine and to Ukrainians?
12:48And Belgium played an active role here in this, blocking the loan for now.
12:53We are not blocking the loans.
12:55And for two years now, we are also giving to Ukrainians the profits, the interest of these loans that are blocked, that are frozen.
13:11But these loans, you know, need to be, it's the first in our history.
13:16We don't have an example to follow.
13:20And it needs to be secured in a legal point of view.
13:24That's the only thing, that's the only point.
13:26And the message that we are conveying to the Ukrainians is that we are by your side, always.
13:37We will help you to defend your borders, because your borders is our borders.
13:43And we don't want to see further the Russians grabbing territories, Ukrainian territories.
13:50We are well aware and we are constantly repeating that their security is our security.
13:56So we are with them.
13:58We are going to also reinforce our own security.
14:02But we just need time.
14:06I think it's a question of time.
14:09On that point, we've seen Russian hybrid attacks on Europe as well.
14:15Cyber attacks, drone incursions and other operations.
14:19Does Europe take this hybrid war seriously enough?
14:23Very seriously.
14:24And that's why a couple of months ago I presented the preparedness strategy,
14:29which is based on all hazards, all kinds of threats.
14:34Because today's threats are not yesterday's threats.
14:37Yesterday it was mainly wildfires, floods, natural disasters.
14:43But today we see drones violating our airspace.
14:48It happened even here in Belgium, in other, in Denmark, in Poland, in Estonia.
14:56And we saw the hybrid threats, misinformation, disinformation campaign during the Moldovan elections,
15:05with 14 million attempts to disturb a cyber attack to influence the result of the election.
15:17Fortunately, it was unsuccessful.
15:20But it means that we are facing a multiplication of threats.
15:25So, in short, is Europe ready for war?
15:30We are preparing. We are prepared every day for everything.
15:35Okay.
15:36And let me go back to the Belgian position on the frozen assets.
15:41I want to explain. I know that you are skeptical.
15:44I saw your face.
15:45I just want to explain to you.
15:47War is not, you know, a char or a soldier knocking at your door saying,
15:51oh, look, I'm going to invade you.
15:54No, it is not a reality.
15:56Today's reality is a virus, a chemical attack, a nuclear incident that is maybe provoked by power outages.
16:07You know, all these things are very subtile.
16:10So, we need to have a good understanding of today's threats.
16:14Now, on Belgium and the frozen assets.
16:17I want to come back to this.
16:19What message does the Belgian position send to the Ukrainians right now?
16:24The fact is that Euroclear is based in Belgium.
16:28It's an international platform.
16:31And the message is clear.
16:34We are with the Ukrainians.
16:37And we will support them in their efforts of war.
16:41But we need time.
16:43We need to secure the legal aspect to be sure that Belgium is not going to be brought in front of a court of justice later on.
16:55That's it.
16:56So, the Belgian prime minister has repeatedly said he fears a retribution from Russia.
17:02legal problems.
17:05How serious is that?
17:07Especially in a context of war.
17:10And are the others immune to that argument?
17:14Why is there still no agreement on this?
17:17Why is it so difficult to sort of spread the risk?
17:21Because it is a first in our history that we are going to take the assets that are blocked following an invasion, a war, an unfair one.
17:37And so, we don't have examples to follow.
17:42And it needs to be secured legally.
17:46That's it.
17:47I'm going to ask you one last question.
17:49I want to bring up a very particular threat to our societies.
17:54And I know that you are very concerned about that.
17:57And that is regression, intolerance and the demonization of dissenters.
18:04Racism, anti-Semitism and sexism are on the rise.
18:09You are in charge of equality and inclusion.
18:12How do you promote this these days?
18:15With good sense.
18:18You know, I like figures.
18:21And obviously, equality is also in the interest of our economies, of our competitiveness.
18:30We need to have all the skills, the potential skills on board.
18:36If we decide that half of the humanity, women for instance, cannot have a complete and full career to deploy all their talents.
18:51That they are reframed with kids, with, you know, culture impediment.
19:01And also that we don't accept the LGBTIQ plus people and so on.
19:07This is an attempt also to our competitiveness.
19:10This is refraining ourselves.
19:12And, you know, violence has a cost.
19:17It costs 290 billion a year for the entire European Union.
19:24We all pay the price of this violence.
19:27Exclusion has also a price.
19:29This is 390 billion a year.
19:32So, if we want to spare money in this period of financial crisis,
19:39we need also to fight against exclusion, discrimination and to have all the skills on board.
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