00:00Субтитры делал DimaTorzok
00:30Minister Tsoju, thank you so much for joining us. Welcome to the show.
00:32Thank you for having us.
00:34So I'd like to start with security and defence,
00:36because Romania has experienced several instances of drones violating its airspace,
00:41most recently in early September.
00:44How do you assess the scale of this threat to Romania's security?
00:49We're a country that is safe, because we have our own capacity to defend,
00:54but also because we have the allied forces present in Romania.
00:58But also, we have been here together with our Ministry of Defence, Mr. Jonas Mostanu.
01:03On his side, alongside the other ministries and in the NATO format,
01:07they are working on the preparedness and the increase of our military capacity.
01:12On our side, even in events from the civil society,
01:17as has been the one from the Friends of Europe and Jacques Delors Foundation recently,
01:21we're working on the societal resilience.
01:23What do I mean by that?
01:25Is that even if the general audience has typically noticed the actual incursion into our airspace
01:32and other countries as well, by the Russian drones,
01:36those have always been together with misinformation campaigns,
01:40with the tests that Russia has put on our democracy, on our information spaces,
01:45to also try to change the narrative around those incursions.
01:48We'll get to that issue of societal threat that you mentioned,
01:54but on the military side, can you give us a sense of whether Romania is actually prepared
01:59to shoot down these intruding drones and aircrafts if they're considered a real threat?
02:05Yes, we are prepared.
02:07We have changed our laws recently,
02:09so we allow for the pilots of the planes that are following the drones to shoot,
02:15if that is the case.
02:17Also, we have changed the legislation,
02:19so we allow for different air defense systems to be able to also,
02:23in the case it is needed, to shoot them down.
02:25It has actually been the case with the recent drone incursion
02:28that the Minister of Defense has given the approval to shoot down the drones.
02:32It is always a matter, though, of assessing the risk,
02:36whether the actual shooting down of the drone
02:38doesn't create more risk on the ground
02:40than the potential risk from the drone itself.
02:43But we do have the capacity, the political will and decision.
02:46If we can contribute to diminish the risks that are created on Ukrainian territory,
02:52we're going to contribute to that as well,
02:54making sure that if they enter our territory,
02:57we are ready to use our capacity to take them down.
03:01Because you are on the front line,
03:02you have the EU's longest land border with Ukraine.
03:05Your government has also said it wants to partner with Ukraine
03:07to build more drones, defensive drones.
03:10Can you give us more information about the scale of that partnership?
03:14When could these drones be operational?
03:16So we have had conversation at the defense level,
03:18but also at the foreign affairs level and governmental level,
03:21to create common projects,
03:24but also to create the needed laws and needed approvals,
03:28so that the private sphere also advances faster in that direction.
03:33For example, we already have in the private industries
03:35projects that are Romanian-Ukrainian,
03:38in the sense that they also test the drones commonly,
03:43using their common knowledge,
03:45and they have also recently acquired investments from the United States.
03:49We want to continue with even more projects,
03:52even from the public sphere,
03:53and to be able to have that not just for our own needs,
03:58in terms of military procurement and capacity,
04:01but also to create this offering together with combat-tested know-how
04:07that the Ukrainians now have,
04:09in order to have that offering for other states that might need them.
04:13So you are talking about the potential to use these
04:15to protect the eastern flank beyond Romania?
04:18Yes, we are assessing now potential projects
04:21that do not only produce for our own needs,
04:24but can also create an offering for other countries
04:27that want to increase their capacity.
04:30Because when we look at the defence priority,
04:33it is clearly that now we have a commitment at the NATO side,
04:37but also at the European level side,
04:39to increase our budgets, to be able to meet that ambition.
04:42You mentioned NATO commitment, EU commitments.
04:45The commitments are certainly there.
04:46We have various initiatives now in order to protect the eastern flank,
04:49the so-called drone wall.
04:51The EU has just said that it thinks that could be fully functional by 2027.
04:57Do you agree with that assessment?
04:58We agree with that assessment, and we believe time is of the essence.
05:02Even when we look at the procurements from now on,
05:06time is going to be an essential element.
05:07And we have seen that in many other countries,
05:10that it is not just about the budget or the capacity
05:13or even the strategic partnerships between countries,
05:16but it has increasingly become a conversation
05:19that looks at the time element more.
05:22Because obviously we feel the risk more present
05:25than we have done before Russia has started
05:28this unprovoked aggression towards Ukraine.
05:30You also met with the U.S. Secretary of State, Marco Rubio, just recently.
05:37On Ukraine, what was your message to him and his administration?
05:41We have talked about our common ambition
05:43to help to have a peace deal in Ukraine as well,
05:49but also about our reluctance in terms of what we see coming from Russia.
05:54We do not see the proper action gestures or decisions in that direction.
05:58And that is why we are having a continuous conversation
06:01on the increase of pressure.
06:04We agree in Romania, and I have mentioned this to Secretary of State Marco Rubio as well,
06:09that the ambition that President Trump has put forward,
06:12the request actually to members of the European Union
06:15to cut off from energy sources from Russia that generate profit
06:20that then is used to fund the war, is the proper decision.
06:24Romania has taken that decision for a while now.
06:26Some of the other countries in the region, though, are not aligned with you on this.
06:31They want to continue buying Russian gas.
06:35Do you think President Trump can put pressure on them to change their minds?
06:40Well, I think President Trump has shown that he is willing to use
06:44the power of the United States and the power of his messages
06:46to create pressure where he considers that is the case.
06:50I also think that what is needed is to have alternatives in the sense that
06:55it is needed in our continent to have energy sources that are clean,
07:01that are reliable, and that are at the right pricing
07:04to allow for that decoupling to happen.
07:09We have seen, for example, energy be used as a war weapon
07:12by Russia towards Moldova, for example.
07:15And it has been very important that, together with Moldova and Ukraine,
07:19with help from the European Commission, we have managed to mitigate that very fast.
07:24We will come on to the issue of Moldova in just a bit.
07:27But you mentioned earlier on these societal threats in Romania.
07:31And over the past year, especially since that presidential runoff
07:35was cancelled back in December, there's been a lot of scrutiny on democracy in Romania.
07:40How are you recovering from this?
07:42How are you restoring trust, not only in public institutions,
07:45but also in Romania's pro-Western path?
07:49So, Romania has always had a pro-Western path, a pro-European path for many years now.
07:55And this has always been cleared by every Eurobarometer, every research that has been done.
08:00In the same time, we have seen our elections being threatened by foreign interference
08:06and by instruments that do not align with the principle of democracy
08:10and democratic options and votes.
08:13So, some of the things that have happened since then
08:16is that our president, Nikos Ordan, has presented the full report
08:20of the informations that were gathered by the Romanian institution at that point,
08:24and he presented that report to the European leaders, but he also decided to make that public.
08:30They will continue to share the resources that they have and the lessons learned.
08:35And this is important because those threats do not disappear.
08:38Even if we have one in Romania, in Moldova the pro-European path has won spectacularly, I would say.
08:46We believe and we expect that the interferences will continue in the sense that we see the same type of intentions
08:53in terms of malign narratives.
08:55So, it is very important that we defend ourselves, not just at the country level,
09:00but at the European Union level, and that we support countries that want to join the European Union in the same process.
09:06You mentioned Moldova, I did want to ask you, and you mentioned the spectacular, you said victory for Maya Sander,
09:12the president's pro-EU past party.
09:15Now, there is a sense of frustration in some countries that the EU accession process is not going quick enough.
09:21Is it time to decouple Moldova's bid from Ukraine's, which is being blocked by Viktor Orban and Hungary?
09:27It's time to de-block Ukraine as well. I think that is very important now.
09:32Now, we need to focus on the merit-based approach, which practically essentially means that
09:36each country, by its own merit, needs to be recognized.
09:40And in that case, Moldova, but Ukraine as well, are way more ahead than where the European Union collectively acknowledges it,
09:49in the sense where you need to have not just cluster one open, but the rest of the clusters as well can be open.
09:55And we need to not forget about the Western Balkans.
09:58And why do I mean that is because I've met today Montenegro, Albania.
10:02They have done spectacular work, and this is also a momentum for them to...
10:06But if I may, it's a merit-based process, and you said it, but it's still being held back by political will of Viktor Orban,
10:13who wants to block Ukraine's accession.
10:15So shouldn't it be the case that for Moldova to be able to progress, that it needs to be decoupled from being coupled with Ukraine in this process?
10:22Well, I think what we need to do is to make sure also internally that we have the proper decision-making reforms.
10:29Because it is clearly not just the merit of Moldova, the merit of Ukraine, Albania, Montenegro, and so on, we can go on.
10:35But it is clearly a problem that we have for ourselves if the will of 26 countries is blocked irresponsibly just by one single vote.
10:45And we need to do the proper reforms, but also fully use the current frame that we have to move forward.
10:50So you agree with European Council President Kostya's proposal to change the rule, so that it's not unanimity, but a qualified majority, to open the next stage?
10:59We're going to have the Council soon, and the final decision is going to come of that.
11:03But yes, Romania thinks we need to move faster, and we need to make sure we do not block our common decisions.
11:10So you support changing from unanimity on this issue?
11:13We're going to have our President present at the Council with the position, but Romania's stance is very clear towards de-blocking both Moldova and Ukraine.
11:22And you would be willing to do that through changing the rules on unanimity?
11:26As I was saying, the President is going to be present at the Council, and the final decision is going to come out of that.
11:32But Romania's position so far is to make sure that we de-block both Moldova and Ukraine.
11:37And if that is not possible, we're having a conversation that is not separate from the conversation we're having with Ukraine.
11:44We need to have the acceptance, the approval, and the support of everyone that is on board to be able to move further.
11:51I want to show you. Thank you so much.
11:53Thank you.
11:54Thank you.
11:59Thank you.
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