"El BERD es aún más importante en medio de las tensiones globales y los recortes de ayuda"
Odile Renaud-Basso descarta que el declive del multilateralismo sea una amenaza para la misión del Banco Europeo de Reconstrucción y Desarrollo (BERD) y prevé un papel en la recuperación de Ucrania y de Gaza después de la guerra.
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00:30Odile Renaud Basso, welcome to the show. Thank you for joining us.
00:37Thank you for having me here.
00:39So your institution, the European Bank for Reconstruction and Development, was established in the 1990s, primarily to invest in post-Soviet economies after the Cold War.
00:50We now have an active war in the east of Europe, in Ukraine.
00:54Tell us why your bank is investing so heavily in Ukraine while the war is still raging, and how do you hope to play a part in its eventual reconstruction?
01:06So, indeed, we are very active in Ukraine, and we have always invested in Ukraine since the bank was created.
01:14Basically, developing the private sector in Ukraine and in the region is part of the core of our mandate.
01:24When the war started, we decided to, with the support of our shareholders, to set up our level of investment.
01:32So we used to invest something like $1 billion a year.
01:35Now we invest, and last year, more than $2.8 billion in the country because we want to support the real economy.
01:45I think the country is at war, so they have received, and they need military support.
01:50They also need budget support to keep the state, the government, functioning, being able to pay civil servants, a pension, and so forth.
01:58But what they also need is support for the real economy, which is what we are doing.
02:05It means, for example, supporting the infrastructure.
02:09There have been, since the beginning of the war, and it's even increasing now, some attacks from Russia on key infrastructures,
02:16such as energy infrastructure, gas production, transport, railway system, and we've been investing to repair, very quickly, as quickly as possible,
02:30this infrastructure, develop more decentralized energy system, repair roads, develop railway, because this is key for the economy to continue to function.
02:43So all this is very important to keep the economy going.
02:47It generates tax revenues, it creates jobs, and so this is a way to help Ukraine sustain the war.
02:53On that question of the energy infrastructure you mentioned, it is being pounded by Russian drone and missile attacks, yet you continue to invest.
03:04Ukraine is now facing its fourth winter since the war broke out.
03:08Is that infrastructure ready for another winter, in your opinion?
03:11I think the infrastructure, I mean, they have been, it cannot never be completely protected.
03:17So they have been, Ukraine has been extremely effective in repairing very quickly key infrastructure in the network,
03:25building shelters to protect some of the infrastructure so that they cannot be targeted, I mean, they are protected against target,
03:32and also building a more decentralized system, where it's not a big power plant, but you have more decentralized energy generation,
03:40which is a way to avoid concentrating the risk.
03:46On the other hand, Russia is continuing to target.
03:49A few days ago, there have been the largest attack on gas infrastructure, and this creates new challenges.
03:57So that's why we need to be, as an institution, as a bank, and with the countries that support Ukraine,
04:03need to be very agile in defining the response and providing support depending on the priorities.
04:08And for example, now, we've been working in the last few months, and still now, with Naftogaz, which is a gas company,
04:15in order to ensure that Ukraine has sufficient gas storage to cover for the winter.
04:21So you believe that for this winter, the country should be able to...
04:25There is a new challenge.
04:26The country was very well prepared a few days ago.
04:28The new attack creates new challenge.
04:31So it's important to continue to strengthen and to be ready.
04:35You also support Ukraine on its reform agenda, as it aspires to join the European Union.
04:41Now, recently, the Kyiv governments tried to push through a law which would have undermined the independence of two anti-corruption bodies.
04:50Given these developments, are you still confident that Ukraine is on the right path to joining the European Union?
04:56So I'm confident because, first of all, it's a clear priority for the government, but also for Ukrainian people.
05:03And I think what was very striking is what happened in July, that the government and the parliament took a decision,
05:10but then there were a very strong reaction from the people, from civil society, which really, with the young people,
05:16saying, I mean, reacting against the decision, and together with international partners,
05:22convincing government that it's better to review the decision and to amend it and to reinstate the power of this anti-corruption body.
05:31So I think this makes me very confident because having the civil society so involved and so reactive to what's going on is a guarantee of ensuring that the path is pursued.
05:41Of course, it's not a linear path. You can have some progress, some backtracking, but the direction is very clear.
05:49The commitment and the desire for the whole society to join the EU, I think, is so strong that it's a key driver.
05:56And we see that, for example, we work a lot with state-owned enterprise, where we made a lot of effort and progress in the governance of the company,
06:05so as to ensure that you have an intentional expert, independent governing bodies that manage the company in the interest of the company and its activity.
06:16And we are making also good progress there. Sometimes we are not happy with decisions, but we always find a solution and find a way to progress.
06:24In the event of a ceasefire and perhaps even a lasting peace in Ukraine, how do you see the role of the bank evolving in that scenario?
06:31And also, can you foresee any situation where you would return to invest in Russia and Belarus?
06:38So, in the case of, I mean, hopefully we will come soon to reconstruction and with a ceasefire and hopefully a real peace agreement,
06:48because I think for real reconstruction having a clear visibility and certainty that the war will not start again is important.
06:55If you still have, you remember that Ukraine was in a war since 2014, and this is not very conducive for investment and development.
07:03It was, so hopefully this will be the situation. Then we will step up our investment, and I think our plan is to invest at least 3 billion euros per year.
07:14And we will have, I mean, a lot, there will be a lot of different challenges, and we already put in place with the support of the EU and in connection with the IB
07:22and a project preparation facility so that, you know, it's up and running and can be very quick when the conditions are better.
07:30But it's already helpful now.
07:32And on Russia?
07:34I don't see. For the time being, we have suspended, I mean, any investment and financial relationship with Russia and Belarus.
07:42And I don't see the current circumstances allowing us to start again.
07:46I'd like to turn to Gaza. Now, as we speak, there is a first face of a ceasefire that has been occurred and seems to be in effect.
07:55We know that still the situation, the humanitarian situation on the ground is devastating.
07:59Can you foresee a big role for the EBRD in Gaza's eventual reconstruction?
08:06So, first of all, the recent news is positive. I think it's encouraging and having a ceasefire will be a very important step.
08:14We've been investing in the West Bank in the last few years, and they're also supporting the private sector, mostly.
08:25And we, I mean, accelerated our investment also in the West Bank.
08:29In the last two years, we invested 200 million. And, I mean, the double of what we've done in the five years before.
08:37And, you know, support investing in the banks, which are really key to keep, they're also to keep the economy going, to give access to funding for SMEs, supporting some manufacturing plants in the West Bank.
08:50Of course, the needs for reconstruction in Gaza will be huge, and EBRD stands ready.
08:57We have a private sector focus, so I think our role would be more to try to bring, when times come and when circumstances are low, to bring private sector or to support financing the private sector in Gaza.
09:10But I think that the first, I mean, the starting point will be really humanitarian and basic infrastructure reconstruction, but we will be ready when it's possible.
09:22But if that basic reconstruction does proceed, do you foresee that then the bank could step in and play a role quite soon?
09:30I think, yes, we could help, you know, bring, as I was saying, also, if possible, bringing private investors to develop infrastructure, to rebuild hospitals, to address the needs.
09:43So, but it really very much depends. Today, it looks like quite, still quite far away, but of course, it will really depend on the political conditions, and there will be a lot of, I think, all the international community will need to be mobilized for this reconstruction.
09:57Finally, I'd like to ask you about how President Trump, particularly, is embracing quite protectionist policies, slashing development aid.
10:10He's also made his disdain for multilateralism quite clear. Is this an existential threat for the EBRD?
10:18No, I think that the role of the EBRD, the role of multilateral institutions like EBRD, is even more important, because we, with the support of our shareholders, including the U.S.,
10:37are very much focusing on how we can develop private sector, market economies, bring foreign investment in the countries in which we work,
10:50ensure that investments are a favorable environment, that we create jobs for people,
10:59and that we have a positive impact on the growth of the country, but also the global growth.
11:06And I think this agenda, which is very much focusing on the private sector, good governance, and so forth,
11:13is very important in a country, in countries in which we operate.
11:17It also helps them building up resilience, in a context where there are much more trade tensions, geopolitical tensions.
11:25Building resilience and building your, you know, capacity of the economy to generate and diversify your supply chain,
11:35and so forth, is very important for a country to have sustained growth.
11:38And I think this is an agenda which is even more important than before.
11:42So, I think that we have no, not under threat, on the contrary, our role is even more important.
11:50Odile Renobasso, thank you so much for joining us.
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