- 3 days ago
Sunderland suffer a major blow as Noah Sadiki picks up an injury on international duty – we break down what it means for Régis Le Bris’ midfield and look ahead to Saturday’s Premier League clash against Wolves. Football writer
Jonathan Wilson joins James Copley and Phil Smith to preview the key battles, tactical tweaks and selection dilemmas facing the Black Cats.
Jonathan Wilson has been longlisted for this year’s William Hill Sports Book of the Year Award for his book The Power and the Glory: A New History of the World Cup. The official awards ceremony takes place November 25.
Jonathan Wilson joins James Copley and Phil Smith to preview the key battles, tactical tweaks and selection dilemmas facing the Black Cats.
Jonathan Wilson has been longlisted for this year’s William Hill Sports Book of the Year Award for his book The Power and the Glory: A New History of the World Cup. The official awards ceremony takes place November 25.
Category
🥇
SportsTranscript
00:30Good morning, everyone, and welcome to the latest edition of The Raw Podcast, brought
00:36you by the Sunderland Echo.
00:37Phil here, joined as ever by James Copley, and we're both absolutely delighted to be
00:41joined today by author and journalist Jonathan Wilson, who I suspect needs no introduction
00:46to Sunderland fans.
00:47Jonathan's joining us all the way from Argentina this morning.
00:50Jonathan, tell us what you're up to out there.
00:52I'm filming a documentary, so it turns out a documentary is really hard work.
00:57You can't just sort of fill in the gaps with some sort of pretentious waffle or some sort
01:02of historical analogy or something.
01:04So, yeah, I was at River v Sarmiento last night.
01:08It was extraordinary.
01:0980-odd thousand there for like a nothing league game, and a terrible night as well.
01:14I was hammering down the rain, and there's only part of the stadium's covered.
01:17So, I went in with the Barras, with the sort of the main hooligan crew before kickoff, which
01:24normally that's a sort of sacred space that cameras aren't allowed in with.
01:28So, that was slightly intimidating.
01:31Well, no, very intimidating.
01:32Lots of sort of very macho handshakes of men with terrifying tattoos.
01:35And then, by half-time, I'd been sort of elevated to the presidential box and was sort of talking
01:41to the president, met Beto Alonso, the great River player of the late 70s, and also Maxi
01:49Lopez, who, I have to say, has piled on the white since his playing career came to an end.
01:53Quiet Sunday night, then, all talk in Argentina.
01:57Well, you'll be pleased to know Jonathan, the pretentious waffle is very much welcome on the
02:01role.
02:01What are you going to get?
02:03Don't worry, I can't turn it off.
02:05It's very much a safe space.
02:06So, we're going to have a bit of a chat about Sunderland in a little bit, Jonathan, but we
02:09wanted to get you to talk about your new book, which is out, which has been long-listed for
02:14this year's William Hill Sportsbook of the Year.
02:17The final shortlist will be announced on the 30th of October, with the awards ceremony
02:21taking place on the 25th of November.
02:23So, Jonathan, the power and the glory, your new project, which isn't about Sunderland, but
02:27will definitely be of interest to Sunderland fans who love the game.
02:29Tell us a little bit what people can expect when they pick this up.
02:33So, it's a full history of the World Cup, which I think we hadn't really had one since
02:38Brian Glanville's book, The Story of the World Cup.
02:40And maybe that book, it is a great book.
02:43Maybe that sort of put people off doing a new one.
02:47So, I think Brian first wrote that in 1973, and he kept updating it.
02:54But Brian, and I say this, Brian was a friend of mine.
02:57He was a great influence over me, brilliant journalist.
03:01It's a great book.
03:02But he was writing from his notebook, as he had to in those days.
03:06It was things he'd seen, people he'd talked to.
03:08And of course, our generation now, we have these huge advantages that for $5 a month,
03:15I can sign up to the Argentinian National Library and go and access every newspaper ever written
03:20in Argentina.
03:22So, in terms of the documents we can examine now very easily, use Google Translate as
03:27well.
03:28You don't even have to speak whatever language.
03:29Getting in touch with people to speak to them is much, much easier.
03:34So, it seemed to me that the world was ripe for a full history of the World Cup using
03:40the resources and tools we now have.
03:43And looking not just at who scored the goals, what the great games were, but also trying
03:48to look at the socio-political, culture-economic background to tournaments.
03:54Yeah, I mean, when you take on a book about the history of the World Cup, it must be exciting,
03:59but also slightly terrifying, the scope of that.
04:01You mentioned there not just the football, but the context in which these World Cups
04:05happen, especially, you know, with the way the football's changed in recent years.
04:08How did you grapple with the scale of it?
04:11And what did you kind of decide was the best way to approach it and the stories that you
04:15wanted to be able to tell?
04:16Yeah, I mean, the challenge is to boil it all down.
04:18Because, I mean, the books, I think it's 160,000 words.
04:21So, I know journalists talk in words all the time.
04:25And maybe that's something that's hard to conceptualize.
04:28So, when people think of a normal sort of paperback book, like, you know, that would
04:31be 80,000 to 100,000.
04:33A standard sort of thriller or detective novel or romance novel would be around about
04:3880,000 to 100,000.
04:40So, it's roughly double the size of a sort of standard novel, which is big.
04:46But still, if you've got 22 tournaments, that's around about 7,500 words a tournament.
04:52If you think, like, a standard match report is probably around about 600, 700, 800 words.
04:56So, you've got 10 match reports worth to get in an entire World Cup.
05:01So, to try to get across the essential stuff of who won, who were the great players, who
05:07were the big managers, what were the big stories, but also give this sort of framework to it,
05:13the sort of cultural background to it, and also try and give people something new, something
05:17they haven't already heard.
05:18That was the real effort to kind of...
05:22And so, some stories, you know, for instance, the hand of God, I think there's three sentences
05:27on it, because I was sort of like, well, everybody knows it.
05:30You don't even need me to explain what it is.
05:32But the whole chapter is the context of Argentina and Maradona.
05:35But the actual specific hand of God, you can't go into it in great detail.
05:43So, what I ended up doing was every...
05:44Each of the World Cups, I sort of write either a word or a theme for it.
05:48So, for instance, 66, post-colonialism, 1974, the Cold War, and 2002, globalisation, and try
05:57to focus everything as much as possible on that, just to get a structure and to help sort of
06:02pair it back.
06:03I'm putting you on the spot a little bit, but you'll have gone into this knowing a lot
06:07of what you were writing about, being very familiar with the stories, but just to give
06:13people a little bit of a flavour of what they might expect, tell us maybe something that
06:16you learnt about, or someone you met, or something that you kind of didn't expect going through
06:20the process of writing this book.
06:22Well, the biggest surprise to me was the Pickles story, which I'm sure everybody knows
06:26Pickles, the dog who found the World Cup just before 66.
06:29And I was sort of like, I'd better include that, but everybody knows it.
06:32It's a bit boring.
06:34What else is there?
06:35And then you start to go into it in detail.
06:37The story's amazing.
06:39Like, it's the most ridiculous story I've ever seen.
06:42It's like, it's this great sort of, it's this sort of like crime caper.
06:46It's a proper British 1960s crime caper.
06:49Everybody in it is completely incompetent.
06:51There's, you know, the FA are incompetent, the security people are incompetent, the thieves
06:56are incompetent.
06:57So basically, the Julien-Mé Trophy's been held, it's been exhibited at a stamp exhibition
07:01in Westminster Hall in central London.
07:03And this exhibition's closed on a Sunday.
07:08But Westminster Hall has a, they have Methodist church services downstairs.
07:12It's open for that.
07:14And so somebody uses the Methodist church service to sneak, and the Methodist church service,
07:17I mean, what a great sort of 60s British detail.
07:20Somebody sneaks in, uses the lifts at the back, which are meant for sort of the elderly
07:24or, you know, people with a, with a disability, goes up the lift, and they, they basically
07:29just unscrew the, there's like a, like a bar, a security bar across the back door.
07:33They just unscrew the bracket, take it off, and that's all they need to do to get in to
07:37nick the World Cup.
07:39But then the story gets, I mean, the story of the ransom is all very weird.
07:43So Joe Mears, who's the chairman of Chelsea, but was also very senior at the FA, he sent
07:48a ransom note.
07:50He suffers from angina, he has an angina attack, and actually dies three months later from it.
07:54He never fully recovers.
07:57But this is a great opportunity for the police, because they can say, oh, look, he's genuinely
08:01in hospital, so we'll put somebody undercover, say he's his deputy.
08:05So DCI buggy of a special branch is sent in undercover to take the ransom.
08:11And a ransom's like in a sports bag, 15,000 pounds.
08:15But it's only like the top few layers are actual banknotes, the rest is just ripped up
08:19newspaper.
08:20But nobody checks, because it's so incompetent.
08:22So if people know London, opposite the Prince Albert pub was the gate to Battersea Park.
08:27So that's the gate where they do the handover.
08:32And Buggy goes with his sports bag.
08:34And this guy called Jackson, not his real name, but we'll call him Jackson, because that's
08:37what he put on the ransom note.
08:38He's like, oh, yeah.
08:39So the World Cup's actually, it's actually 10 minutes away, it's in Kennington.
08:44So get in the car with me.
08:46She gets in the car with the cursory glance for sports bag.
08:49Oh, yeah, it seems to be full of notes.
08:50Not going to check below the top layer.
08:52And then he says, oh, you see that van over there?
08:54Yeah, that's the sort of van that Special Branch used for surveillance.
08:58But it doesn't occur to him that it is Special Branch surveilling him.
09:02And it's only when he sees another of the vans after he's driven for 10 minutes, he's like,
09:05hang on.
09:06And he runs for it, he gets caught.
09:08It turns out he's a former soldier who's done time for handling stolen goods.
09:13And then mysteriously, a week later, the trophy's found in South Norwood, down near Crystal Palace.
09:20But I think the really interesting bit about the story is that Jackson lived two streets
09:26away in Clerkenwell from Charlie Richardson, the gang boss, who at the time was engaged in
09:34a war with the Cray Brothers.
09:35And on that Sunday, when the World Cup was stolen, Charlie Richardson had been convicted
09:42in absentia of a murder in South Africa and was facing extradition for the death penalty
09:47in South Africa.
09:48He did a deal with South African Security Forces boss, the Bureau of State Security, to go and
09:53raid the ANC, African National Congress headquarters in London.
09:58The African National Congress headquarters in London is less than a mile from Westminster
10:01Hall.
10:02So it seems to me inconceivable that Jackson would have been involved in some sort of major
10:07crime without at least running it by Charlie Richardson.
10:10He just wouldn't do that.
10:12And he'd handle stolen goods.
10:13He's part of that criminal milieu.
10:15He knows the rules.
10:16You don't just go and commit a big crime without getting the say-so off the boss.
10:21So at the very least, Charlie Richardson must have known about it.
10:23But given that the ANC officers are less than a mile from Westminster Hall, it seems to me
10:28entirely plausible Charlie Richardson thought, well, we've done that job.
10:32On the way home, let's do this other one.
10:33Now, was he doing that because he believed, as many people falsely did, that the World
10:39Cup was made of solid gold, which would have given it a street value of around about £3,000?
10:44It's actually silver with gold plates worth about £60.
10:47And was he thinking, this is money that can fund my war with the craze?
10:51Or had he been asked to do it by BOSS, by South Carolina State Security, in order to embarrass
10:57Howard Wilson, the British Prime Minister?
10:59He was very anti-apartheid.
11:01And he was fighting the general election three weeks later.
11:04Was this a way to try and embarrass Wilson?
11:05So that story is way more complex and way deeper and way more fun and interesting than, I think,
11:13the basic story that we're told.
11:16So, yeah, that's an example of how you probe a little bit below the surface and everything
11:21gets a lot weirder and a lot more interesting.
11:23So I think people have the idea now this isn't a book of match reports.
11:26This has been a real big task for you.
11:30We're going to get your thoughts on some in a minute.
11:31But I just wanted, lastly, to ask how, when you wrote this book, you approached the way
11:35the World Cup has changed and the kind of political aspect of the World Cup that clearly
11:41we saw with the last one in Qatar and potentially we're going to see next summer as well.
11:46Yeah, I think the last two World Cups, Russia and Qatar, but Qatar in particular,
11:50have really brought a focus on how politicised everything around the World Cup is.
11:56And I think it's always been politicised, but I think Qatar took that to a new level
12:02and maybe sort of highlighted things in the past that we hadn't quite appreciated.
12:08So, yeah, I was in Qatar working and it was a very, very odd tournament to cover
12:13because a lot of the football was amazing.
12:15You know, the Messi story, the way Argentina played in certain games,
12:18the drama of the final, of the quarterfinal was extraordinary.
12:23As a football fan, you can't help but be sort of uplifted by that and energised by that.
12:30But at the same time, everywhere you went in Qatar, every stadium, every media facility,
12:34every hotel, every apartment, the metro, everything there you knew had been built
12:40with the blood of migrant labourers.
12:41And that was a very hard thing to reconcile.
12:45And I think in the end, all you can do is to say both things are true.
12:49On the one hand, the tournament was grotesque and it was a human rights disaster.
12:57And on the other hand, the football that was played there was amazing.
13:01And we should be conscious of both.
13:02How did you feel going out there, Jonathan, just because there was a lot of stick, wasn't there,
13:07to journalists, commentators, pundits that maybe spoke out against Qatar's record
13:12but still went over to cover the tournament?
13:14How did you sort of juxtapose that?
13:16Well, I think the job of a journalist is to report.
13:19And just because you're there doesn't mean you agree with things.
13:21I mean, you know, if you went to report on the Vietnam War,
13:24it didn't mean you agreed with the Vietnam War.
13:26It meant you were reporting on it.
13:26So your duty as a journalist is to report honestly and fairly on what you see
13:32and put yourself in positions where you might not be particularly comfortable.
13:37I had huge reservations about Qatar as a tournament,
13:40not just because of the migrant labors, but because of, you know,
13:43if you look at FIFA statutes, that U3 talks about no discriminations
13:48on the grounds of race, gender, sexuality, et cetera.
13:51I mean, Qatar has embedded in this constitution that homosexuality is illegal
13:56you know, I'm pretty sure Jewish fans who went there felt pretty uncomfortable.
14:01So I felt, I thought the tournament should not have been there
14:03but that doesn't mean that we shouldn't go and report on it
14:05and try and present the most accurate picture possible.
14:07Because if we didn't go, then Qatar's propaganda project wins
14:12because the only voices you hear are people who do support the state of Qatar.
14:18Yeah.
14:19Well, that's the power and the glory of Jonathan's new book,
14:22which hopefully we've been able to whet the appetite for a bit
14:25for people listening now.
14:26So I think most people listening will know, Jonathan,
14:28that you have a lifelong association with Sunderland.
14:31So I want to start by getting your thoughts on the last six months or a year
14:35because I imagine you'd have been obviously watching from a distance
14:38the very difficult period the club went through.
14:40And you're kind of like everyone else, just pinching yourself a little bit
14:43that Granja is in midfield and we're winning games at Wembley
14:46and that's apparently what we do now.
14:49Yeah, I mean, I was very fortunate.
14:50I was at the Papa John's final.
14:54I managed to persuade the Guardian to send me to be the journalist there.
14:58So I think I was one of maybe three or four Sunderland fans in the stadium for that.
15:02So I was a very rare Sunderland fan for a year or so
15:05who'd actually seen us win at Wembley.
15:06And that, I mean, the Papa John's final, I was like, it doesn't matter.
15:12It's only Trammy.
15:12It's only Papa John's.
15:13There's nobody here.
15:13This is pointless.
15:15And then Lyndon Gooch scored.
15:17And suddenly I was this sort of bag of nerves.
15:20I couldn't stop shaking.
15:21Final whistle went.
15:21I was in tears.
15:22So, yeah, I'd probably get to see something four or five times a season live.
15:29I try not to write on them if I possibly can in terms of match reports
15:32because I do get – it's very hard to detach myself sufficiently
15:37to do a proper match report.
15:41I was there for the playoff final as a fan,
15:44which was – well, both playoff finals, the League 1-1 as well,
15:47but particularly this year.
15:49And my feeling that night was, let's just enjoy this
15:52and next season's probably going to get relegated.
15:55And then I sort of thought, summer signings there?
15:59A lot of money spent, a lot of players I've heard,
16:01a lot of positive things about.
16:03And then, yeah, I think we've got to be aware
16:06that the fixtures have been pretty kind so far.
16:08So that's the one caveat.
16:10But to have 11 points at this stage, I don't think you can hope for more.
16:15Well, the annoying thing is you could hope for more.
16:17But, you know, if it hadn't been for the red card against Villa,
16:21probably would have beaten them.
16:23So you feel there's two points away.
16:24So at least they've got a draw a bit, haven't gone behind.
16:26But you think there's two points chucked away there.
16:29Leasing at Burnley is not great.
16:31So I guess, you know, you always want a bit more.
16:36But realistically, 11 points in seven games.
16:38I think the stat says that you need to get eight points
16:41in the first five as a newly promoted team
16:43to have a chance of staying up.
16:44So that was the first challenge.
16:47And obviously the win at Forest,
16:50which in some ways I think is the most encouraging win of the three.
16:53That was the one where I know there's a bit of pressure in the second half,
16:57but I sort of felt we were in control of that game,
16:59having taken the lead.
17:03But, you know, then you get Greedy and you think,
17:06oh, we didn't put much of a fight against United,
17:07and United are bad.
17:08That was an opportunity in 2-0 down inside,
17:10however long it was.
17:13But, yeah, it's gone way better than I was thinking in May.
17:19Then hopefully, yeah, Saturday suddenly looks like quite a big game,
17:21but it's a chance to...
17:23And it's 14 points is nearly half of what you need to stay up.
17:26It was interesting, me and James were talking actually about the Man United game
17:30and the feeling of being at Old Trafford
17:32and everyone telling you Man United are bad,
17:34which clearly they are.
17:36But then, you know, Ahmad, Mbwemo, Fernandes,
17:39and you kind of go, well, there's levels of bad.
17:41And having covered a League One team for a lot of years,
17:44they're not that bad.
17:45So, but, yeah, I kind of guess...
17:48We'll bring James in a minute,
17:49but I wanted to get your thoughts, Jonathan.
17:50Obviously, you've watched something this year,
17:51and one of the interesting things
17:52is how different we've been to recently promoted sides
17:56and the way we've set up,
17:57you know, the fact that we seem a lot happier to absorb.
18:00But it also seems like this is maybe a bit of a trend.
18:03I wanted to get your thoughts on whether you feel
18:04that this is something not just Sunderland,
18:06but actually across the Premier League.
18:08I remember last time we were in the Premier League,
18:10everyone wanted to be like Pep,
18:11and now it feels like there's maybe shifting away.
18:14Even Pep himself seems to be shifting away from that a little bit.
18:17Yeah, I think that's completely true.
18:19So I think there's two aspects to that.
18:21So I think, yes, generally football has become more direct,
18:25more physical, more dependent on set plays.
18:27I think it's gone quite quickly, actually.
18:29I think Arsenal maybe led the way with that
18:32in terms of the top teams,
18:33but this season, everybody's focusing on long throws,
18:36on corners.
18:37The football has become much more physical and direct.
18:41That interview Guardiola gave last season,
18:44which I have to say, I've followed this trap as well,
18:47where he was saying that, oh, maybe my football's not modern anymore,
18:52and it's Bournemouth, Newcastle, Liverpool,
18:54who are playing modern football.
18:56And my interpretation at the time, my memory of it,
18:58was he was talking about needing players,
19:00he ran with the ball a bit more in attacking circumstances.
19:02I went back and looked at that interview again a couple of weeks ago,
19:05and actually, if you read it carefully,
19:07and read the whole thing,
19:09he's talking very specifically about how many fixtures there are these days
19:15and how compact, how compressed the calendar is,
19:20that he says it's just not the time to play his sort of football.
19:24So I think what he means by that is that
19:27that Juega de Position, his positional game,
19:30where the game becomes more about, you know,
19:32almost chess-like,
19:33of these, every game,
19:35have stratagems to try and create overloads
19:37or try and isolate a fullback,
19:40that you can't really do that,
19:41come up with a game-by-game strategy,
19:42if you're playing two tough games a week.
19:46And I think he almost feels
19:49this more physical, more direct football
19:51is a step back,
19:52but it's a necessary step back because of the calendar.
19:55So I think he's reluctantly done it,
19:59but it is definitely true it's happening.
20:00And then I was struck last season,
20:03I had the misfortune to do a number of Southampton games last season,
20:07and Ivan Juric, who I actually quite liked,
20:10I mean, obviously he had a disastrous time,
20:12but something he kept saying was
20:15that he'd expected Southampton's players
20:17to not be able to compete technically or tactically,
20:20but what he was shocked by was they couldn't compete physically.
20:24And I think that's something,
20:25because we sort of, you know,
20:27have just got used to it,
20:29we see it every week,
20:30so we perhaps don't quite appreciate it.
20:32But the Premier League is much,
20:34much more physical than other leagues around the world.
20:37And I think that's one of the reasons
20:39why promoted sides find it so difficult,
20:41why new players coming from outside the Premier League
20:43into the Premier League
20:44often find it quite hard to adapt.
20:45I think you've seen Florian Berts has found it really hard to adapt.
20:49And so the fact that Sunderland seemed to have had a very clear policy
20:52of signing quick, physical players,
20:55who can also play,
20:57but clearly the physicality is part of it.
21:00That was one of the things I was really encouraged by.
21:02So if we ever get our first choice midfield back again,
21:06Xhaka, Jarrah and Siddiqui,
21:09all three of them are technically good.
21:11All three of them are physically really powerful players.
21:14Xhaka is obviously more of a passer.
21:15The other two carry it a bit more.
21:17But that three,
21:18I think that is a midfield that it's probably a top half.
21:22Just mid-table Premier League midfield.
21:25And that's a great thing to have.
21:27Now, I'm not sure that we've quite got the balance right
21:30between that three and the front three.
21:33I know against Forest,
21:34since Siddiqui played a bit wider
21:36and Le Fay played inside,
21:38maybe that is the way to do it
21:40to get a bit more creativity in the centre
21:41and use Siddiqui's physicality
21:44to pin in the opposing right back.
21:46But I really like that three.
21:48I think the balance of that three is very, very good.
21:50It's just how you then get the interaction
21:52between that and the front three.
21:54This is a great discussion, isn't it, James?
21:56I mean, we're going to talk about Noah Siddiqui
21:57in a minute
21:58and how big an absence that is for Saturday.
22:00But what do you make of that?
22:02Jonathan's mentioned in there
22:03that it's probably the midfield and the defence
22:04that has been the most impressive this season.
22:08I guess a part of me wonders a little bit
22:10if that's also because
22:11the money that Sunland has spent in those positions
22:14goes a lot further
22:15when you're talking about defenders and midfielders.
22:17And actually, when you look at the profile of players
22:19Sunland have signed in the forward areas,
22:2118, 20 million,
22:22it doesn't get you proven wingers
22:24and strikers at this level.
22:25Maybe that's going to be a longer-term kind of process.
22:29Yeah, I really like Sunland's middle three
22:31when they're all fit and firing.
22:32I think they all do something that the others don't,
22:34if that makes sense.
22:35There was a lot of chat about Granit Xhaka coming in.
22:38We signed him when he was 32.
22:39He's since turned 33.
22:41Are his legs gone?
22:42Sort of, what's he coming here for?
22:43And he's been excellent, really.
22:45But I think Noah Siddiqui, in particular,
22:47has given him the platform to perform.
22:50Siddiqui does a lot of the dirty work,
22:52the dog work, doesn't he?
22:53His interceptions are very good,
22:55but he's quite progressive.
22:56His numbers are very high.
22:57And I think, as well,
22:58there's some things that can't be measured
22:59in statistics.
23:00When Hume bombs forward on the right
23:02from defence, Siddiqui tends to drop in.
23:05That sort of positional awareness
23:06in the Premier League for, what,
23:07a 20-year-old, I think,
23:08is quite impressive.
23:10And Habib Diarra, as well.
23:11I'm hoping to see him again soon
23:12after he recovers from his groin surgery
23:14because he's very powerful
23:16and he can progress the ball, can't he,
23:18with the ball at his feet.
23:19And I think that's hugely important
23:20in the Premier League.
23:21We've seen with transitions
23:22numerous times already this season,
23:24not just in Sutherland games,
23:25but up and down the league,
23:26that if you've got a ball carrier,
23:28you can counter-attack quickly
23:29where that's hugely beneficial.
23:32So I think it's hugely positive,
23:33but the negative at the moment
23:34is that two of the three
23:36are looking likely to be out
23:37for at least a little while.
23:38So it's all eyes on some
23:40of Sutherland's fringe players.
23:42Yeah, I spoke to,
23:44when I first saw Siddiqui play,
23:45which I think he'll have been
23:46against Sevilla in pre-season,
23:48and I spoke to Rajis Labriss
23:50the next day and I said,
23:51like, wow, that guy runs, doesn't he?
23:53And interestingly, Labriss said
23:55one of the things he talked about
23:56when they were going through
23:57the recruitment meetings
23:58and looking at his clips and stuff
23:59was Labriss had told Siddiqui
24:01that he felt he was probably
24:02running a little bit too much.
24:03So what we're seeing this season
24:04is Siddiqui cutting back on his running,
24:07which I think is incredible.
24:09But I also think he's probably,
24:11I don't know what you think,
24:11John, I'll get your thoughts on this.
24:13I think he's probably irreplaceable
24:14within this squad
24:15in terms of what he can do
24:17in his running.
24:18I think Labriss is probably
24:20going to have to do something
24:21a little bit different on Saturday
24:23because I don't think
24:24there's a guy in the squad
24:25where you go,
24:25yeah, you go in and do that.
24:27I think he's going to have
24:27to reshuffle things a bit.
24:29I know you don't see us
24:29every week necessarily,
24:30but what's your kind of thoughts
24:31on that?
24:32No, I think that's true.
24:33I mean, the way he ran
24:34against Villa,
24:35you almost didn't notice
24:36we had a man down
24:38because it was a bit,
24:39I mean,
24:40this is a ludicrous comparison,
24:41I realise,
24:42but he's a little bit
24:43like N'Golo Kante
24:44in terms of,
24:45he's almost two players.
24:47Yeah.
24:47He's got,
24:48I mean,
24:48obviously a good footballer,
24:50but also just
24:51a phenomenal engine
24:52and the fact that Villa game,
24:54he basically just ran
24:55until he got cramp
24:56and collapsed
24:57in engine time
24:58and so like his willingness
25:00to put himself through that
25:01as well,
25:01I've,
25:03yeah,
25:03I think there's a,
25:04there's a few players
25:05who've stood out,
25:07but Siddiqui's the one for me
25:09who's just sort of like,
25:09hang on,
25:10this is a player
25:10that we haven't seen
25:11for a long,
25:11and the fact he's only 20,
25:13I think the two centre-backs
25:14have been,
25:15Mughele and Alderete,
25:16and I've said Alderete
25:17was not a player
25:17I knew anything about,
25:18but defensively recently,
25:21he can pass the ball as well,
25:22seems just happy
25:23to pin 30,
25:2440-yard passes.
25:27So they have two
25:28centre-defenders
25:29who are physically tough,
25:31good defensively,
25:32but also comfortable
25:33on the ball.
25:34I mean,
25:35have we ever had that before?
25:36I mean,
25:37it feels mad to say
25:38this is our greatest
25:39ever centre-defensive pairing,
25:40but it certainly might be true
25:43in my lifetime.
25:44Michael Turner could play
25:46with the ball at his feet,
25:46you know.
25:48Maybe he just had
25:51the wrong manager
25:51at the time,
25:52he wasn't able
25:53to show it off.
25:54I'm putting you
25:54on the spot here,
25:55Jonathan,
25:55but loads of people
25:56have actually asked
25:56me and James,
25:57and there's been
25:57a big talking point
25:58in the Sunderland
25:59all season,
25:59how on earth
26:00did we get Alderete?
26:01Like,
26:02why was nobody else
26:03signing him?
26:03Do you think
26:04maybe the team
26:05he was playing in
26:06in Spain,
26:07do you think
26:08the way Getafe played,
26:09do you think
26:09maybe people didn't realise
26:10he could do this?
26:11What's your kind of thought?
26:13I've just got no idea.
26:13I mean,
26:14as I say,
26:14he was a player
26:14I'd never heard of,
26:16and it turns out
26:18he's,
26:19I mean,
26:19he got,
26:20which goal was it
26:22in the first game
26:23where it was his cross?
26:24And you're sort of
26:24looking at that,
26:25that's the centre-back
26:25putting in that cross.
26:28Off the bench as well.
26:30Yeah,
26:30off the bench,
26:31yeah.
26:31So,
26:32yeah,
26:33it just shows
26:35how good the recruitment
26:35is.
26:37I've sort of,
26:40I think,
26:41once you get beyond
26:42the very top
26:42tier of players,
26:44the next tranche,
26:46there's,
26:47there's actually
26:48not a huge amount
26:49between them
26:49and it's all to do
26:50with getting the right
26:51player for the right
26:52system,
26:52for the right circumstances
26:53and I think
26:54what Sunderland's recruitment
26:55over the last two
26:56or three years
26:56has been really good at
26:57has been identifying
26:58those players.
26:59Now,
27:00obviously,
27:00we did that
27:00with young players
27:01for a long time
27:01and to a level
27:03that I was slightly
27:04frustrated by
27:04that I think
27:05if you looked at,
27:05say,
27:06Brentford,
27:06who I think
27:07need to be the model
27:09for clubs coming up,
27:10particularly clubs
27:11without a huge amount
27:12of money
27:12and maybe we do
27:14have more money
27:14than Brentford,
27:15I'm not sure,
27:16maybe that is true
27:17but they were very good
27:19at bringing in young players
27:20but also having a core
27:22of experienced players
27:23for them to learn from
27:24so Xhaka clearly
27:25is part of that
27:26and I think you see
27:28Xhaka's intelligence
27:29in some way
27:31when he was at Arsenal
27:32there was this,
27:33there was a story
27:34that was always told
27:35that I can't remember
27:36how old it was like
27:36when he was five
27:37or six or something
27:38his parents trusted him
27:40rather than his older brother
27:40with the door key
27:41because he was
27:42the responsible one
27:43and you watch him
27:44play for Arsenal
27:44and I'm like,
27:45Christ,
27:45what was his brother like?
27:47You see that now,
27:48he is the guy
27:50I trust with my door key
27:51but also,
27:52the goal against Villa,
27:54I mean,
27:54I'm talking about Villa a lot
27:55but that's the one
27:56game I've actually
27:56been to this season
27:57but the assist
27:59in that game,
28:00that header,
28:01that was one of those
28:02moments at a game
28:03where you see
28:04the ball's bobbing about
28:05and suddenly
28:06a chance has been created
28:07and you say,
28:08where did that come from?
28:10How did their defence
28:11suddenly melt away?
28:12But that's him
28:13seeing the space,
28:14seeing the opportunity,
28:16nodding the ball
28:17with exactly the right pace
28:18into the right space,
28:20spotting the gap,
28:21spotting the weakness.
28:22So that's his experience,
28:25that's his game intelligence.
28:28So yeah,
28:29I think the recruitment
28:29has been pretty much
28:32as good as you can hope
28:33for this summer
28:34and I think
28:35Alderete is a great
28:37example of them
28:38bringing in a more
28:39experienced player
28:40who other clubs,
28:42whatever,
28:42maybe he's just too old
28:43for them,
28:43they think that's not
28:44the sort of player
28:45we need
28:45but if you've got
28:46a very young squad,
28:47it's exactly what you need
28:49and I just,
28:51yeah,
28:51I can't quite believe
28:52that it's us
28:54who've identified
28:55a player that good,
28:56that composed
28:57and that good
28:58at defending.
28:59Alderete is particularly,
29:00Alderete is particularly
29:02impressive to me,
29:03the recruitment of him
29:04just because
29:04Hatafi didn't play
29:05like that last season.
29:06If you looked at
29:07Alderete's passing stats,
29:08if you looked at the way
29:08Hatafi went around
29:10the business,
29:11you know,
29:11they didn't play out
29:12from the back,
29:12there was sort of
29:13no indication
29:13that this centre-back
29:15was good with the ball
29:16at his feet
29:16but obviously Sutherland
29:17have spotted something
29:17brought him in
29:18and he's proved
29:19to be a revelation.
29:20I wonder if that's
29:23what it is,
29:23I wonder if people
29:24have thought he can't
29:25do that because
29:26of the way he's played
29:27but anyway,
29:27I'm very glad
29:28Sutherland are the ones
29:29that have spotted
29:30the talent.
29:30I'm going to chuck you
29:31both a pointless
29:32but fun question
29:33because I was thinking
29:33about this at
29:34Nottingham Forest
29:34when I thought
29:35Jack had just,
29:36I was like,
29:36why is he in a
29:37Sutherland shirt?
29:38You know,
29:38just that moment
29:39of disbelief
29:40but I'm not talking
29:41about overall
29:42contribution,
29:43I'm just talking
29:43about individual
29:44strength of player.
29:44I'm not sure
29:45I've seen a better
29:46quality individual
29:47player for Sutherland.
29:49I think maybe
29:50Stefan Schwartz
29:51when I first started
29:51going was up there.
29:53Obviously,
29:53what Super Kev did
29:54for that period of time
29:55was incredible
29:56but I'm not sure
29:57I've seen a better
29:59just individual player
30:00in a Sutherland shirt
30:00and obviously
30:01I've only been going
30:02since 1999
30:03but what do we think?
30:05Has anyone got anyone
30:06who immediately
30:07springs to mind?
30:09I mean,
30:09there's nobody in the 90s
30:10so don't worry
30:10about when he got in
30:11the 90s.
30:11Okay,
30:15the only one
30:16is Loic Sanna.
30:18Yeah.
30:22Actually,
30:23not a dissimilar player
30:24in terms of being
30:25really hard
30:26and tough
30:27but also
30:28good on the ball
30:29but I mean,
30:32obviously,
30:32his career
30:33never reached
30:34the heights
30:35that Jack has
30:36has.
30:37You are thinking
30:38though,
30:38how bad
30:39were those first
30:40two training sessions
30:40on the Eric Ten Hag
30:41at Leverkusen?
30:43Two training sessions
30:44later,
30:44there's Jack
30:45a-hammering
30:45on the manager's door
30:46going,
30:47yeah,
30:47it's my life's ambition
30:48to play for Sunderland.
30:48Sorry,
30:49I've got to go.
30:51Are we talking
30:52just midfielders here,
30:53Phil?
30:54No,
30:54I'm thinking overall.
30:56So I asked someone
30:58this
30:58and they chucked
30:59Steve Bull at me
31:00which I thought
31:00was a good shout.
31:02I mean,
31:02obviously,
31:03he was so old
31:03by the time
31:04he got to us.
31:05I mean,
31:05going a long way back
31:06and this is
31:09my kid's eye
31:10so it might
31:12not,
31:12I might be
31:13slightly overrating
31:13him.
31:14But maybe
31:15Nick Pickering?
31:18Yeah,
31:18having such a good
31:19left foot,
31:19being able to
31:20work that whole
31:20left side.
31:21Sean Elliott
31:22before the injury?
31:23Yeah.
31:24But again,
31:24this is relying on me
31:25being like six years
31:26old and like,
31:28I mean,
31:29maybe it's not
31:29quite fair to compare
31:31when he's a goalkeeper
31:31with Thomas Orenson.
31:33Yeah,
31:33that's a good shout.
31:34In terms of
31:35midfield ability
31:36for me,
31:37two names that
31:38sprung to my mind
31:38haven't had as good
31:39careers,
31:40but in terms of
31:41just quality
31:41and the eye test,
31:43Jan Kirchhoff and
31:43Nvea,
31:44I think were very good.
31:45But I think
31:46Jack is a level
31:47above that
31:48in my eyes.
31:49But then you're
31:49talking about
31:50Super Kevin,
31:51maybe DeFoe after
31:52that in terms of
31:53just sheer quality,
31:53but it's different,
31:54isn't it?
31:54It's a very different
31:55skill set being a
31:56forward to being
31:57a midfielder.
31:58I mean,
31:58the problem with
31:58Kirk is he couldn't
31:59last more than an
31:59hour.
32:00Yeah.
32:03Moyes killed him
32:03as well the season
32:04after.
32:05Yeah.
32:05I suspect that
32:07had Kirchhoff
32:08been fully fit,
32:09there's absolutely
32:09no way he would
32:10have played a game
32:11for Sunderland,
32:11especially where we
32:12were in that time
32:12of history.
32:14Grateful for the
32:14time we had with
32:15him, though,
32:15because it was good.
32:16Yeah, certainly.
32:16Yeah, but that's
32:17where you see
32:17Sam Allardyce's
32:18recruitment.
32:19He knew he was
32:20available and knew
32:21that he could get
32:22a good hour out of
32:23him every week
32:23and other clubs
32:24wouldn't take the
32:24risk and we did
32:25and it worked.
32:25Is it a mad one
32:27that's got that
32:28talent?
32:29We've seen,
32:30albeit in the
32:31championship,
32:31but in terms of
32:32his raw ability.
32:34I was interested
32:34to see him at
32:35Old Trafford
32:35because obviously,
32:37you know,
32:37are you looking
32:37at it going,
32:38why is he playing
32:38wing-back?
32:39I mean,
32:39it still seems
32:40kind of outrageous,
32:42but in a game
32:42where they're
32:43playing well,
32:44I mean,
32:44he was brilliant
32:45the other week.
32:47And what's your
32:48kind of take on
32:49where he might
32:50get to,
32:50John?
32:51I find him a
32:52really difficult
32:53player to assess
32:54because I don't
32:56think I've ever
32:56seen a player
32:56hit a ball as
32:57hard with so
32:58little backlift,
32:59which must be
33:00a technical
33:00thing.
33:01And also,
33:02I don't think
33:02I've ever seen
33:02such a little
33:03player play
33:05not like a
33:06little player.
33:08I'm sure that's
33:09why there were
33:09so many doubts
33:10about him,
33:11why he was
33:11loaned out so
33:12often at United,
33:13was that
33:13Edby looked at
33:13and thought,
33:14he's tiny,
33:14how can he cope
33:15in the Premier League?
33:15We talked about
33:16the physicality
33:16of the Premier League,
33:17but actually,
33:18though he's short,
33:19he's got that
33:19real sort of
33:21wriggly muscularity,
33:24if that makes
33:24sense.
33:26Almost his lack
33:26of height helps
33:27him that I
33:28guess his
33:28centre gravity
33:29is lower,
33:29he can wriggle
33:30past players.
33:33So,
33:33I mean,
33:33it was obviously
33:34when he was
33:35playing for us
33:35that he was
33:36a level above
33:36anything else,
33:37I mean,
33:37certainly in our
33:38squad,
33:39maybe even in
33:39the division
33:40as a whole,
33:41but I do
33:43sort of fear
33:44that his lack
33:45of physique
33:46at some level
33:47will cost him
33:49and that's why
33:50it seems to me
33:51totally baffling
33:52he's playing
33:52at wing-back
33:53because if I
33:55was the opposing
33:56team,
33:56I'd spend
33:57the whole
33:58game trying
33:58to get down
33:59the other
33:59flank and
33:59stand up
34:00also the
34:00back post
34:01on his
34:01side
34:01because
34:02for the
34:02best
34:03one
34:03in the
34:03world,
34:04if you've
34:04got a big
34:05forward coming
34:06in,
34:07there's nothing
34:10he can do
34:10about that.
34:12So that
34:12seems to me
34:13just a very
34:14strange,
34:15I mean,
34:15I don't really
34:16understand that
34:16system,
34:17I don't understand
34:17why I'm so
34:18obsessed by it,
34:20but the thing
34:22that's most weird
34:22to me is that
34:23it seems to me
34:24United's best
34:24two players
34:25last season
34:25were Bruno
34:26and Ahmed,
34:28both played
34:29as the twin
34:29number 10s
34:30and now
34:31neither of them
34:31are playing
34:31number 10,
34:32he's moved
34:32them both
34:32out of the
34:33positions where
34:33they were
34:33excelling.
34:34So the other
34:36thing about Ahmed
34:37is the fact
34:37he came to
34:38watch the
34:38Coventry
34:39playoff,
34:40we'd take him
34:42back,
34:42wouldn't we?
34:43I'd love to
34:43have him back.
34:45I think he's
34:46the one,
34:47I think,
34:47that pretty much
34:47every Sunderland
34:48fan,
34:48if you gave
34:49them one
34:49player,
34:50I think he
34:50would be the
34:51one,
34:51wouldn't he?
34:52Just before
34:53we let you
34:54go,
34:54Jonathan,
34:55and crack
34:55on with
34:55your
34:55Argentina
34:56trip,
34:56I just
34:56want to
34:57have a
34:57brief chat
34:57about the
34:58Wolves game.
34:58You alluded
34:59to how big
35:00you think
35:00this is.
35:01James,
35:01I'll come
35:01to you
35:01first,
35:02now I'll
35:02get Jonathan's
35:03thoughts.
35:03This does
35:03feel like a
35:04massive game,
35:04it feels
35:05like if you
35:05win this,
35:06you're almost
35:07halfway there,
35:08another three
35:09points between
35:09Sunderland and
35:10Wolves,
35:11if you lose
35:11it,
35:12obviously it's
35:13not the end
35:13of the world
35:13given the
35:14start we've
35:14had,
35:14but it does
35:15feel like a
35:15bit of an
35:15early inflection
35:17point,
35:17it feels like
35:17a really,
35:18really important
35:19game.
35:20It is an
35:21important game
35:21and it's one
35:22of those where
35:22you don't want
35:23Sunderland to
35:23do a Sunderland
35:24deal,
35:24because Wolves
35:24are obviously
35:25the only team
35:25not to win
35:26in the Premier
35:26League,
35:27it would be
35:27very fitting
35:28if they did
35:29that against
35:29Sunderland at
35:30the Stadium
35:30of Light,
35:30in a game
35:31that you would
35:32expect given
35:33the form,
35:33Sunderland to
35:34win,
35:34I know
35:34they're newly
35:35promoted and
35:35Wolves aren't,
35:36but Wolves
35:36have really
35:37struggled.
35:39I guess it
35:40hinges on that
35:41midfield balance
35:41for me,
35:41doesn't it?
35:42What will
35:42LeBris do?
35:43Will he be
35:43able to
35:43counteract the
35:45notable
35:46absentees of
35:47Diara and
35:48Siddiqui?
35:48Obviously LeFay
35:49will probably
35:50play there,
35:50you'd imagine
35:51maybe he's
35:51rigged a little
35:52bit further
35:52forward,
35:53but it will
35:53be a tough
35:54slog.
35:54It's a little
35:55bit of a
35:55cliche that
35:56there are no
35:56easy games in
35:57the Premier
35:57League,
35:57but I think
35:58it's true,
35:59and I think
35:59it's one we
36:00shouldn't take
36:04back in games
36:05at times,
36:06and they'll
36:08be thinking
36:08it's got to
36:09click for
36:09them at some
36:09point,
36:10and from
36:10their
36:10perspective
36:10they'll be
36:11thinking,
36:11right,
36:12Sunderland
36:12have shown
36:13some decent
36:14stuff this
36:14season,
36:15but it is
36:15still a
36:15newly
36:15promoted
36:16side,
36:16we can
36:16go there
36:17and potentially
36:17target that
36:18game,
36:18and it
36:18could springboard
36:19their season.
36:20We saw it
36:20with Sunderland
36:21in the Premier
36:21League at
36:21times,
36:22the last
36:23time we
36:23were in,
36:24getting a
36:24win,
36:24getting that
36:25first win on
36:25the board
36:25could really
36:26help propel
36:26you up the
36:27table,
36:27so not one
36:28for us to
36:29take lightly
36:29as a team
36:30or as a
36:30fan base,
36:30I don't
36:31think it's
36:31a gimme
36:31this one
36:32at all.
36:32I don't
36:33know if
36:33you've seen
36:34much of
36:35Wolves,
36:36Jonathan,
36:36and what
36:36you're kind
36:36of feeling
36:37on where
36:37there is,
36:37do you
36:38feel that
36:39they're
36:39where they
36:40are on
36:40merit,
36:40do you
36:40think this
36:41is a
36:41little bit
36:42maybe of
36:42a banana
36:42skin for
36:43Sunderland,
36:43what's
36:43your feeling
36:44on this
36:45one?
36:45I don't
36:45think
36:45they've
36:46been
36:46anywhere
36:46near as
36:46bad
36:47as
36:47results
36:47have
36:47suggested,
36:49again,
36:50as we've
36:51seen
36:51often with
36:52Sunderland,
36:54if you
36:54get three
36:54or four
36:55bad results
36:55in a row,
36:56it doesn't
36:56really matter
36:56how well
36:56you play,
36:57it affects
36:58confidence.
37:00The fact
37:01that they
37:01got that
37:01point at
37:02Tottenham,
37:03I think
37:03there is a
37:04sense that
37:04they're not
37:06beaten down
37:07yet.
37:12I almost
37:14wish we
37:14were just
37:15bottomed
37:15with no
37:15points and
37:15we could
37:16write off
37:16a season
37:16and it
37:16wasn't
37:17stressful,
37:18but it
37:19feels like
37:19we haven't
37:19had such
37:20a good
37:20start,
37:21we don't
37:21want to
37:21waste
37:21it.
37:22And so
37:24suddenly this
37:25game feels
37:25like there
37:26is pressure.
37:27So I
37:27sort of
37:28set myself
37:29these targets
37:30through the
37:30season,
37:31so eight
37:32points from
37:32the first
37:32five games,
37:33then four
37:34points from
37:34the next
37:35three,
37:36and then
37:36obviously
37:37getting the
37:37win at
37:37Forest is a
37:38big step
37:39towards that.
37:40So even
37:40a point keeps
37:41us on my
37:42schedule,
37:44but we could
37:45win that to
37:46be on 14
37:46points,
37:47but we've
37:47equally got
37:47to be aware
37:48we haven't
37:50played anybody,
37:50I mean Palace
37:51Away is the
37:51hardest game
37:52we've played.
37:53And we
37:54now have
37:55played United
37:55Away,
37:56but we
37:56haven't played
37:56any of the
37:57big six,
37:58big seven.
38:00We're going to
38:01struggle to do
38:02the Cup of
38:02Nations,
38:02we're going to
38:02lose half a
38:03dozen.
38:04So it is
38:06important to
38:06get these
38:07points,
38:07and the
38:08fact Wolves
38:09have had such
38:10a bad start,
38:11it's clearly
38:11an opportunity,
38:12but it's just
38:13annoying that
38:14we're doing it
38:14without two of
38:16our best three
38:17midfielders.
38:17you assume,
38:20the problem
38:20is if it's
38:21Lefeuille and
38:21Rigg,
38:22there is a
38:23loss of
38:23physicality
38:24there,
38:24you can't
38:24deny that.
38:26Obviously both
38:26of them are
38:27great players,
38:28and Lefeuille
38:29last season,
38:31you think of
38:32that cross
38:32against
38:32Middlesbrough
38:33for the
38:33own goal,
38:34just the
38:35touch before
38:35that,
38:36the quality
38:37that he
38:37has,
38:39but the
38:41idea of him
38:41and Rigg
38:42in the same
38:42midfield in the
38:43Premier League
38:43makes me
38:43slightly
38:44uneasy.
38:46Do you
38:46reckon he
38:46changed his
38:46system,
38:47Phil?
38:48Well,
38:49I think one
38:49of the
38:49interesting
38:50things is
38:50this is an
38:51excuse to
38:51bring Dan
38:52Ballard back
38:52and go with
38:53three in the
38:54back and
38:54say,
38:55what have
38:55we got?
38:56We've got
38:56loads of
38:56really good
38:57centre-halves
38:57who are good
38:58at heading
38:59it and
38:59kicking it.
39:00But I
39:02think the
39:02argument for
39:03that is
39:04that because
39:05Alderete and
39:06Buckele are so
39:07good on the
39:07ball,
39:07they can step
39:08out,
39:08they can
39:08become a
39:09auxiliary
39:10midfielder.
39:11So I
39:11think there is a
39:12good argument
39:12for that.
39:13Whether it's
39:16going to a
39:16back three at
39:17home is what
39:17you want to
39:18do,
39:18but even if
39:19it's just
39:19for the
39:19first hour,
39:20see how it
39:20goes.
39:21I think
39:22that's not
39:23the worst
39:23shout in
39:23the world
39:23rather than
39:24lose the
39:24physical
39:24battle in
39:25the middle.
39:26It's a
39:26really good
39:26point you
39:27made.
39:27I'll get
39:27your thoughts
39:28on this,
39:28James.
39:29I don't
39:31think there'd
39:31be too many
39:31complaints if
39:32the team
39:32comes out
39:33and it's
39:33Masuaku
39:34at left
39:34wing back
39:35and it's
39:35Ballard at
39:35centre back.
39:36It feels
39:36negative in
39:37some ways,
39:38but I think
39:39there's a bit
39:39of an
39:39understanding
39:40that's what
39:41this team
39:41is at the
39:41moment.
39:42That's where
39:42its strength
39:43is.
39:43What do
39:43you think?
39:44Well,
39:45yeah,
39:45you do have
39:45to play
39:45to your
39:45strengths
39:46and I
39:46don't think
39:47Arthur
39:47Masuaku's
39:48strength is
39:48at playing
39:49left back.
39:49I know it
39:50was a tough
39:50task for him
39:50against
39:51Amad and
39:52Bwemo at
39:52Old Trafford,
39:53but he looks
39:54to me like a
39:55left wing back.
39:55West Ham fans
39:56told us,
39:56didn't they,
39:57that he's a
39:58left wing back,
39:58not a left
39:59back and that
39:59he can be a
40:00little bit
40:00temperamental.
40:01So I
40:01wouldn't be
40:02adverse to
40:02seeing that
40:03just to push
40:03him a little
40:04bit further
40:04up the
40:05pitch.
40:05And I
40:06think what
40:07else have
40:07Sunderland got
40:07at their
40:08disposal other
40:09than big
40:10centre-backs?
40:11They've got a
40:11bit of pace
40:11on the wings
40:12through the
40:13middle and
40:14if they do
40:14set up the
40:14counter-attack,
40:15I think that
40:16could be a
40:16good way to
40:16get at
40:17Wolves to be
40:17honest.
40:17The only
40:18caveat is
40:18being at
40:19home.
40:20Obviously
40:20you mentioned
40:21fans might
40:21not complain,
40:22but that
40:22home crowd,
40:23is there an
40:24onus on
40:24Sunderland to
40:25maybe push
40:25the game
40:26early?
40:26I don't
40:26know how
40:27that would
40:27work out
40:28in the
40:29mind of
40:29that
40:29Sunderland
40:30squad.
40:31I think
40:31I've just
40:32been conditioned
40:32by the
40:33last six
40:33months.
40:33I'm just
40:34like,
40:34everyone
40:34behind the
40:35ball,
40:35get all
40:35the centre-backs
40:36in.
40:36This is
40:37what we
40:37do.
40:38This is
40:38our new
40:38thing.
40:40We're
40:40going to
40:40wrap it
40:41up there.
40:42I've got
40:43a very
40:44quick quiz
40:45question for
40:45you.
40:46Given
40:48that Jonathan
40:51is in
40:51Argentina,
40:52I've got a
40:52list in
40:53front of me
40:53of eight
40:54Sunderland
40:54players from
40:55Argentina.
40:55I think
40:56it's the
40:56only eight
40:56unless
40:56somebody's
40:57going to
40:57correct me.
40:58Can you
40:58name them
40:59all?
41:00I'll go
41:00to Jonathan
41:01first and
41:01then film.
41:02We're
41:03doing it
41:03alternately?
41:04Yes.
41:06Claudio
41:06Marangoni?
41:08Correct.
41:09I wasn't
41:09going to
41:09get that
41:10one,
41:10so I'm
41:10relieved
41:10you've
41:11gone in
41:11with
41:11that
41:11one.
41:11My
41:12favourite
41:13ever
41:13Sunderland
41:13player,
41:14of course,
41:14Santiago
41:15Virginia.
41:16He's
41:16in there.
41:17Nicola
41:18Medina?
41:19Yep.
41:22Oscar
41:23Ustari?
41:24Correct.
41:26I'm
41:26going for
41:26an
41:27obvious
41:27one now.
41:27Helio Arca.
41:28Yeah,
41:28he's in
41:29that.
41:32I think
41:32that's me
41:32out for
41:33now.
41:33How many
41:33more can
41:33you get?
41:34I'm not
41:35sure I've
41:35got any
41:35others.
41:37Do you
41:37want to
41:37hear the
41:37rest?
41:38Yeah,
41:39go on.
41:40Arguably the
41:40most high
41:40profile Ricky
41:41Alvarez.
41:42of course,
41:43yeah.
41:44I saw
41:45him play
41:46for
41:46Veles as
41:47well,
41:48before he
41:49joined
41:49into
41:50even.
41:50I knew
41:50he was
41:50rubbish.
41:51We've
41:52got
41:52Nacho
41:53Scocco.
41:54Ah,
41:54yeah.
41:55And
41:56Marcus
41:56Angeleri
41:57as well,
41:57who I
41:57quite liked
41:58but just
41:58hardly ever
41:59played.
41:59Yeah.
42:00I saw
42:00both of
42:01them.
42:01I've
42:02seen both
42:02of them
42:02play in
42:02Argentina
42:03as well.
42:04Because
42:04Scocco
42:04was at,
42:05was he,
42:06where was he?
42:07He was at a
42:07team who was
42:08near the top
42:09and I
42:10think he
42:10was,
42:11was he in
42:11that
42:11can team
42:12but just
42:12now he
42:13missed out
42:13on the
42:13title?
42:15I definitely
42:16saw him
42:16playing in
42:18quite a
42:18good
42:18Argentinian
42:19club side.
42:23But
42:23anyway.
42:26Well,
42:27there we
42:27go.
42:28John,
42:28thanks so
42:28much for
42:29joining us.
42:29I'm going
42:29to give
42:30you a
42:30book and
42:30other
42:30plugs.
42:31That's
42:31the power
42:31and the
42:31glory
42:32in you
42:32history
42:33of the
42:33World
42:33Cup.
42:34It's
42:34been an
42:34absolute
42:34pleasure.
42:35Thank you
42:35for taking
42:35the time
42:36from your
42:36trip to
42:36Argentina
42:37to come
42:37and join
42:37us here
42:38on
42:38Wearside.
42:39We're
42:39going to
42:40get you
42:40back to
42:40do an
42:41Enzo
42:41Lafayre
42:41versus
42:42Middlesbrough
42:42special.
42:45Thanks
42:49everyone for
42:50listening,
42:50for watching.
42:51Cheers,
42:51James,
42:52and a
42:52special
42:52thanks to
42:53Jonathan
42:53for your
42:53time today.
Recommended
4:30
2:05
Be the first to comment