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00:00:01This is 5 Live Sports, the Monday Night Club with Mark Chapman. Listen on BBC Sounds.

00:00:09Evening to our Monday Night Club on the way and then from nine o'clock, John Wilkin, Jamie Peacock and Brian Noble will join us to preview the Super League Grand Final and also look back on what was an amazing NRL Grand Final yesterday morning.

00:00:23It's the international break, of course. Still plenty of live football to bring you this week. Full commentary of England against Wales on Thursday. Updates of Scotland against Greece. Wales against Belgium is next Monday. England away to Latvia on Tuesday. We've got the Women's Champions League this week as well. Tomorrow our focus will be Arsenal against Lyon. All the build-up from seven kick-off at eight.

00:00:50Welcome to the Monday Night Club. You can watch on the iPlayer. You can stream on the BBC Sport YouTube channel. You can listen on 5 Live or on BBC Sounds.

00:01:01MNC at bbc.co.uk if you want to get in touch. 85058 on the text. At 5 Live Sport on social media. Chris and Rory and Connor Cody are with us this evening.

00:01:13Sometimes people in radio like to start a show with some funny chat and quite often I think we're clutching at straws really to try and find funny chat. You don't want to force it, do you?

00:01:26No, of course not.

00:01:26No, of course not. And then somebody just sits down to start the show five minutes before we go on air having just got off the phone with the AA because he's lost his car.

00:01:35And sometimes that then just becomes an open goal.

00:01:41Well, I wouldn't describe it from my situation as funny.

00:01:45You might find it funny. I don't think that that's funny that my car is lost, gone missing.

00:01:54But not stolen? Because that wouldn't be funny, obviously.

00:01:59No, well, I don't know. I don't know what's happened to it.

00:02:05My car broke down and I did the right thing and I called the AA and they told me it would be delivered home within 48 hours.

00:02:13We're now 72 hours further on and I gave them a call earlier and it's still nowhere.

00:02:18So if anybody sees a grey discovery, which is broken down somewhere, please call in or text in 85058.

00:02:28I've got a horrible feeling that all we're going to get now is people coming up with comedy places where your car is.

00:02:39But it's still going to be broken down somewhere else, is it?

00:02:41It must be on the back of a truck somewhere.

00:02:44Well, that's what I'm hoping, where that truck is.

00:02:49I feel as though your car, Chris, might be being dragged along by Alan Shearer's car.

00:02:53That would be fitting.

00:02:54I also like the fact that you sat down and accused me of being no help to you whatsoever since I found out about this, you know, your car breaking down on Saturday.

00:03:07I don't know what you want me to do.

00:03:10No, yeah, I did say to you that, I mean, you wouldn't have been a lot of help anyway.

00:03:14I can't imagine you being good at that sort of thing.

00:03:16You have staff, don't you?

00:03:18Hang on, hang on, hang on.

00:03:19You can't imagine Chapa's being good at roadside recovery.

00:03:23I mean, you are right on that, Chris.

00:03:28I'm not very good at roadside recovery.

00:03:31Well, neither am I, obviously.

00:03:33Right, 85058, mnc at bbc.co.uk.

00:03:38We are going to talk Liverpool and Rangers.

00:03:41We'll talk Arsenal.

00:03:43We'll talk what next for Nottingham Forest and Ange Postacoglu.

00:03:47We'll talk about the body language of the Wolves players yesterday, which I know, Conor, you were talking about on the TV.

00:03:52Peter Schmeichel will join us to talk about Lamins' debut for Manchester United.

00:03:56We'll talk more about the England squad as well.

00:03:59We'll hear from Nico O'Reilly, who's been called up for that today, with Rhys James pulling out injured.

00:04:07We're going to start with Liverpool, who fell to a third successive defeat away at Chelsea on Saturday.

00:04:12So that's two Premier League away defeats, and they also lost in the Champions League.

00:04:18They've conceded seven goals in six league games.

00:04:22And the only caveat that I would say, Rory, about starting with Liverpool is, I think, we did our Arsenal in crisis.

00:04:33We didn't do it in so many ways, but we discussed whether Arsenal are going to have problems because they weren't adventurous enough at Liverpool, and look where they are.

00:04:41We also did, what's going to go, what's going to happen to Manchester City after they lost to Tottenham and Brighton.

00:04:47So that's the only thing I would throw in there as a little caveat before we start this discussion.

00:04:53Yeah, I think there's a couple more.

00:04:55One is that Liverpool have lost two Premier League games to goals in the 95th and 97th minute, which, you know, you'd consider yourself slightly unfortunate.

00:05:04But then they've rescued themselves with plenty of goals in and around those minutes.

00:05:08And they should consider themselves fortunate to have done that as well.

00:05:11I think there's no question that Liverpool aren't controlling games.

00:05:14That's not really up for debate.

00:05:16And the other is that I think you have to acknowledge that, I mean, Chelsea, obviously, are a Champions League team, admittedly missing their entire defence on Saturday.

00:05:23But they are a Champions League team.

00:05:24It is, you know, it is Chelsea.

00:05:26It's not kind of a minnow.

00:05:27And Palace were the form team in Europe when Liverpool played them.

00:05:31So I think a little bit of context is important.

00:05:33But that said, there's no question that there is clearly something off about Liverpool.

00:05:38I don't want to quote her unnecessarily, especially if it was a private conversation.

00:05:42But I did the Champions League highlights on Wednesday and watched Liverpool Galatas ride with Kelly.

00:05:47And Kelly actually put it better than anybody else I've ever heard, which is just that it looks like Liverpool's players are two yards in front of or behind where all of their teammates expect them to be at any moment.

00:05:57And I think that sums up the way Liverpool are playing at the moment.

00:05:59Did she mind you quoting her on that?

00:06:03I don't know.

00:06:03We'll find out.

00:06:04I don't know if she listens.

00:06:07Well, I know she isn't listening tonight because she's hosting an awards ceremony.

00:06:12So she won't.

00:06:13But she could listen back on BBC Sounds.

00:06:15I'm sure she will.

00:06:16She'll get a nice surprise.

00:06:17Where she will, yeah.

00:06:18Where do you think Liverpool's biggest issue is, if you think they do have an issue?

00:06:24I think Liverpool look at this moment in time like a team who haven't played together a lot.

00:06:30That's what I think they look like.

00:06:31I think that's how they're playing.

00:06:33I think they look like they've had a lot of changes.

00:06:34And that's no excuse, by the way.

00:06:36But I think that's what they look like.

00:06:38And I think, for me, the biggest issue is at full-back.

00:06:40I think where they're at.

00:06:41I think they've been so used to kind of...

00:06:43And Trent Alexander-Arnold got a lot of stick last season.

00:06:45Didn't he?

00:06:46He's defending different things.

00:06:47But the way he supported Salah, and I'm sure we're going to speak about Salah and different things and all these players.

00:06:52I just think at full-back, they look really, really open at this moment in time.

00:06:55I think the way they both fly forward, I think they're both fantastic full-backs.

00:06:58But they've been playing in a different way, in different teams.

00:07:01And I just think Liverpool look like, at the minute, a team who haven't been together for a long time.

00:07:05One of those discussions we had last year was about, if Trent Alexander-Arnold was to go, how that affects Mo Salah.

00:07:13Not necessarily how it affects them defensively, but how it affects Mo Salah.

00:07:17100%.

00:07:18And I think you're seeing it now.

00:07:19I think you're seeing it now.

00:07:19Now, when you look at Frimpong or Conor Bradley as well, so I'll put Conor Bradley in this,

00:07:23in terms of Conor Bradley loves to play, and you'll see when you watch him, he underlaps an awful lot.

00:07:29So he comes inside, Mo Salah when Salah's got the ball, Frimpong goes round him an awful lot to overlap.

00:07:34Trent just supported from behind an awful lot.

00:07:36Very rarely did you see Trent going outside Salah to then whip a ball.

00:07:40He would support from behind it and leave Salah to do.

00:07:41So I think what you're seeing with Salah at this moment in time, and this is my opinion,

00:07:46is just not playing with players.

00:07:48He doesn't understand where they're going to be.

00:07:49So why isn't Frimpong behind me where Trent was for so many years,

00:07:52where I can just lay him a pass and he'll whip it into the box?

00:07:54And it just comes from playing together constantly.

00:07:57And we'll all look at it, won't we, as pundits and as people who have an opinion on the game,

00:08:00and go, Liverpool look miles off it.

00:08:02But everyone goes through it when there's been loads of changes.

00:08:04We just expect so much from them.

00:08:05But you talk about who's behind Salah.

00:08:08You could then talk about who is alongside Salah in Isak,

00:08:13or Eketike, who's had a good start, but they're new in that role.

00:08:17You could talk about who maybe one of the three is in that midfield three,

00:08:24which would be Vert.

00:08:25So in all the sort of triangles that you could draw as a link into Salah,

00:08:30the majority of those have changed, depending on who's been selected.

00:08:33No, 100%.

00:08:34Listen, even the best players in the world can find things tough like that.

00:08:37And the problem I think we've all got is,

00:08:39is that we expect so much from Salah, because he's been so good for so many years.

00:08:43But he's played with the same players for so long.

00:08:45That's how it's been.

00:08:46That's what he's been good at.

00:08:47And that's how he's been doing it.

00:08:47And I just think you're seeing now, and I think we're seeing now,

00:08:50a situation where there's been so many new players trying to bed into that team,

00:08:54that even the best players find it tough at times.

00:08:56Where do you...

00:08:57Don't go on.

00:08:57I didn't say, Conor, are you surprised that Slott has thrown everybody in all at once?

00:09:01I think he's had to, hasn't he, a little bit.

00:09:04Not necessarily vert, but then when you sign someone for so much money,

00:09:07he's going to have to come in and play because you're expecting so much.

00:09:10I think the Frimpong situation, you're always going to change the full-back

00:09:12because Trent's left.

00:09:13I think that's a big one.

00:09:14The Robertson one, I think...

00:09:17Yeah, you could say that on the left-hand side,

00:09:19because Robertson's been there for so long,

00:09:20Kirk has been thrown straight in.

00:09:22And then the striker situation, you have to play one of them.

00:09:25He's in a situation now where I think in time,

00:09:27and this is only my opinion in terms of it,

00:09:29I think it's going to be tough in time to keep them both happy.

00:09:31I really do, because I think they're both incredible footballers.

00:09:33And I think to keep them both happy,

00:09:35they're both going to want to play every minute of every game.

00:09:36And I think as the season goes on and they're both wanting to play,

00:09:39I think that's going to be a tough thing to kind of manage a little bit,

00:09:41myself.

00:09:42But yeah, I think in certain positions, we can say that, Rory.

00:09:44Yeah, especially at the left-back situation,

00:09:46because Kirk has seems very raw, doesn't he?

00:09:49Obviously, a player coming from Bournemouth, coming to Liverpool,

00:09:51he's very raw,

00:09:52and he could probably learn off Andy Robertson as well.

00:09:54Chris?

00:09:54I think there's lots of things at Liverpool at this moment in time,

00:09:58and they haven't had a disastrous start to the season,

00:10:01but neither have they, even when they were winning games.

00:10:04I mean, you know, Rory mentioned the games.

00:10:06They've lost late, they won games late.

00:10:08They weren't convincing,

00:10:09and they haven't been convincing defensively.

00:10:12And we're talking about them because of their recent results,

00:10:15and we're talking about them because we aren't quite sure about them.

00:10:18I'm not sure that Arnaud Slott is sure about what his best 11 is.

00:10:22And it's a bit of a mishmash at right-back.

00:10:26Frim Pong has played,

00:10:28and I think I said before on the Monday Night Club,

00:10:30I don't think that Arnaud Slott is having Frim Pong defensively.

00:10:33Connor Bradley, good young player, replaced Trent at times.

00:10:37Maybe he's not had the best start to the season,

00:10:39but then he's playing Sobber's Lie,

00:10:41and not just Sobber's Lie, Sobber's Lie has fitted in there.

00:10:44He's playing him out of position as such at right-back.

00:10:48You're losing his influence from midfield.

00:10:50Gravenberg at the weekend had to drop back,

00:10:53and he's done that a few times a season as a centre-back.

00:10:55Needs must.

00:10:57And you're missing his influence in the midfield.

00:11:00So there's all these things going on,

00:11:02and Connor's touched on new players

00:11:05and building relationships and understanding,

00:11:07which all players need,

00:11:09and that may be affecting Salah.

00:11:11Wurtz, let's get it right,

00:11:13a lot of excitement over him,

00:11:14quite rightly so,

00:11:15before he came in,

00:11:17what Liverpool were buying.

00:11:18But it hasn't quite happened from yet.

00:11:21So there's all these things going on at this moment,

00:11:24and yet they've still sort of got results.

00:11:26But I think if you're a Liverpool fan,

00:11:28you would be a little bit concerned.

00:11:31What are the three changes to the back four over the weekend,

00:11:34throughout the game?

00:11:35Kerkes hasn't really...

00:11:37I always thought Robertson's boots would be,

00:11:40you know, big and tricky to fill,

00:11:42but it's not that he doesn't have the same quality going forward.

00:11:45And it does take time.

00:11:48And we're judging them.

00:11:49We're judging them based on what we saw last season.

00:11:53You mentioned Trent going,

00:11:54and, you know, Robertson was there last season.

00:11:57And they haven't hit those heights.

00:11:58But Arna Slott, in fairness to him,

00:12:01has said they did have issues last season as well.

00:12:04But because, you know, they ended up winning the league,

00:12:06people didn't really bring them up.

00:12:08Yeah, I think that's a good point.

00:12:09I think there's a bit of misremembering about last season,

00:12:11because the first four months,

00:12:14the narrative was,

00:12:15well, Liverpool haven't played anyone yet.

00:12:17They're not that good.

00:12:18They're not blowing teams away.

00:12:19They only won seven games by more than two goals in the league,

00:12:22which is, you know, winning by two goals can be comfortable.

00:12:26Liverpool didn't thrash anybody.

00:12:27They beat Spurs twice by...

00:12:29They won 6-3 at the Tottenham Hotspur Stadium

00:12:31and 5-1 the day they won the lead at Anfield.

00:12:35And then I think United, Ipswich, maybe Southampton,

00:12:38you know, they were not smashing teams last season.

00:12:40And there were long periods where Liverpool were really good

00:12:44at doing just enough to win a game.

00:12:47They weren't kind of 3-0 up by half-time

00:12:50and coasting through the second half.

00:12:52And it looks like this season,

00:12:54and I agree with Chris completely,

00:12:55that even in the games that they won,

00:12:57or they have won,

00:12:59they were vulnerable at moments.

00:13:01They were patchy.

00:13:02There were moments where you looked at them and thought,

00:13:04OK, you sort of see where this is going.

00:13:06And then 10 minutes later,

00:13:07Bournemouth would just be walking through the midfield or whatever.

00:13:10It had all broken down completely.

00:13:12And it's as though the fine margins that went their favour last season

00:13:16are just turning against them a little bit.

00:13:19And I think the crucial thing is that Slott doesn't seem...

00:13:22He almost seems to have lost the courage of his convictions a little bit

00:13:26in terms of how much he's changing all at once

00:13:27because, you know, he's dropped verts now a couple of times,

00:13:30which, as Connor says,

00:13:30is a big thing to do for a player who costs that much money.

00:13:334-3-3 yesterday, really,

00:13:35with that midfield of Sobbers like McAllister and Gravenberch.

00:13:38It's like he's not sure whether he wants to keep changing

00:13:40or whether he wants to kind of revert to what things were like last season.

00:13:43And I wonder if that's true in the players' heads as well.

00:13:45But do you know what we're talking about in terms of so many new players?

00:13:49I also look from a centre-backs point of view,

00:13:51and also I watch a lot of centre-backs,

00:13:52and you look at someone like Canati,

00:13:53who's getting a bit of stick at the start of the season,

00:13:55to be honest, a lot of people are giving him a bit of stick.

00:13:57But you've got to remember,

00:13:58he's been a player who's been there for years,

00:13:59he's playing next to Van Dijk,

00:14:00but he's having to play a different way now.

00:14:02And what I mean by that is,

00:14:03he's lost somebody next to him.

00:14:05He's having to defend in the channel

00:14:06because Frimpong or Conor Bradley's out of position,

00:14:08or Shabozla's in central midfield.

00:14:09So, teams are exploiting that channel now,

00:14:12and Canati's now got to go out and defend,

00:14:14and no centre-back will ever tell you they want to defend out there.

00:14:16I'm telling you now,

00:14:16from a centre-back's point of view,

00:14:18you do not want to defend as a right-back.

00:14:19It's hard.

00:14:20There's a reason you don't play there,

00:14:21you don't want to be out there.

00:14:22You're not quick enough,

00:14:23it's hard to defend.

00:14:23So, why didn't he have to do that with Trent?

00:14:25Because Trent would sit deeper and more centrally.

00:14:28Yeah, I just think Trent was a little bit more controlled.

00:14:30On the ball, Trent would go into midfield,

00:14:32I get it,

00:14:32but I always think Trent was there.

00:14:33And don't get me wrong,

00:14:34we all gave Trent a stick, didn't we,

00:14:35about defending,

00:14:36a lot of people did.

00:14:37But I just think now,

00:14:38there's no full-back in position.

00:14:40So, whenever the ball's on transition,

00:14:41and whenever Liverpool lose the ball,

00:14:42that space is always vacated.

00:14:44So, Canati's having to defend

00:14:45in the channel with a massive space,

00:14:47and I'm telling you now,

00:14:48not one centre-back will want to defend

00:14:49in that challenge.

00:14:50There's a reason why you play centre-back

00:14:51and you don't want to play right-back,

00:14:52because it's a tough position to defend in.

00:14:54And I think that's also a change

00:14:56for the players who were there.

00:14:57I just think it's been tough all round

00:14:59in terms of players who've come in,

00:15:00and then trying to change the way

00:15:01and get used to people who are in there.

00:15:03Go on.

00:15:04This is on the full-back thing,

00:15:05and I always get in trouble

00:15:06when I try and talk about tactics,

00:15:07because people will invariably point out

00:15:08that I have no idea what I'm talking about.

00:15:10Roy, you coach an under-8s team.

00:15:13That's true,

00:15:14and we did win 4-3 despite the wind

00:15:16against Otley.

00:15:18How did your full-backs do?

00:15:20Full-back.

00:15:21We just play one defender.

00:15:22That's all you need.

00:15:24Did you go with the wind in the first?

00:15:27Yeah, 4-0 up after the first quarter.

00:15:28Chappers just told them to shoot on sight.

00:15:30Right, and then just sit back and defend.

00:15:32Yep, just hope that...

00:15:33Simplicity, Roy, simplicity.

00:15:36Just shoot when you get the ball.

00:15:37Right.

00:15:38And so, I mean,

00:15:39I don't want to dress myself up

00:15:40as a tactical genius,

00:15:41but that was a big win.

00:15:423-4 now.

00:15:43The other thing that gave them cover

00:15:46when Trent went wandering off,

00:15:49as he was told to do,

00:15:50that was kind of what Trent Alexander-Arnold

00:15:51was meant to do,

00:15:52was that one of the midfielders

00:15:54dropped into that hole.

00:15:55They filled the space.

00:15:57Normally, Graben Birch and before that,

00:15:58Jordan Henderson.

00:15:58I don't know if in a 4-2-3-1

00:16:01that's as easy to do

00:16:03because if you've only got two midfielders

00:16:05who are playing deep

00:16:06and one of them drops out,

00:16:07then that kind of changes the balance.

00:16:09Whereas if you have that player

00:16:10who was in that sort of right-hand sided slot,

00:16:12they could just fill in for Trent

00:16:13when he went forward.

00:16:15And I think that balance has changed.

00:16:16And the thing that's happening

00:16:18on the other side,

00:16:19and it happens so often,

00:16:20it must be an instruction.

00:16:22Kirchner's drifts in field,

00:16:24which means there's always a diagonal

00:16:26on into the space behind him.

00:16:27And you see it all the time

00:16:29with Liverpool now.

00:16:30So I presume Slott is telling him to do it,

00:16:31but I've got no idea

00:16:33what the purpose of it is.

00:16:34Well, the former Lincoln manager

00:16:36looks puzzled

00:16:37by that tactical description from Rory.

00:16:41You look puzzled, Chris.

00:16:44The man doing his A licence next to me

00:16:47is just glazed over,

00:16:48so I don't know what to do there.

00:16:51No, just with, you know,

00:16:53listen carefully to what Connor said

00:16:56about Canate,

00:16:58and it's not sort of a centre-backs union,

00:17:01but he should still be able to adapt better

00:17:05and be able to cope in that situation.

00:17:07And the other thing with Canate,

00:17:09you know, you're talking about

00:17:12a slight change in the way

00:17:14that he has to react to situations.

00:17:15He's been terrible on the ball this season,

00:17:18and that, you know,

00:17:18that has been an issue.

00:17:19And I do think the biggest issue

00:17:21with Liverpool has been there.

00:17:24There are players who just aren't playing well.

00:17:27You know, and all players go through stages

00:17:30like that throughout the season

00:17:31where they just haven't quite hit the heights.

00:17:33And the fact then,

00:17:35and I think it's legitimate

00:17:36where we talk about all Liverpool's forward players

00:17:39and the excitement of the players

00:17:40that Arna Slott brought in.

00:17:43And you just wonder

00:17:44whether that not signing Mark Gahey

00:17:47will come back to bite them in the backside

00:17:50because they don't have strength

00:17:53and depth and cover in there.

00:17:56Like, if you look at Arsenal,

00:17:57you've got to say that

00:17:58you look at Liverpool's squad,

00:17:59Arsenal's squad,

00:18:00and you're thinking,

00:18:02blimey, Arsenal don't half look strong.

00:18:03If Liverpool get another one or two injuries,

00:18:05if Van Dijk got injured,

00:18:07for argument's sake,

00:18:08then they're in a bit of bother.

00:18:10And they might have used Mark Gahey

00:18:11as a right-back if they needed to,

00:18:13to be honest with you.

00:18:13Or a back three or anything like that.

00:18:15You could play him in any shows.

00:18:17I agree with Chris.

00:18:17I think he would have been huge.

00:18:19Do you think the other thing in all of this

00:18:23is we should be more surprised

00:18:26when footballers move clubs

00:18:29and do hit the ground running

00:18:31rather than be surprised when they don't?

00:18:35And Chris talked about

00:18:37Kirkus filling Robertson's boots.

00:18:40I'm fairly sure,

00:18:41Rory will correct me if I'm wrong,

00:18:42but I'm fairly sure

00:18:43Liverpool didn't play Robertson

00:18:45when Robertson joined

00:18:46for the first six months or so

00:18:48after he joined from Hull.

00:18:50Yeah, and he wasn't being kept out of the team

00:18:51by a kind of

00:18:53Champions League way right-back.

00:18:55Left-back, it was Alberto Moreno,

00:18:56who was floored.

00:18:59And Robertson didn't appear

00:19:00until about December regularly.

00:19:02So it may be you move

00:19:03from another club in the Premier League.

00:19:05It may be you move from abroad.

00:19:06I've seen this thing going around.

00:19:08I don't really understand it

00:19:09about Verts has gone

00:19:11seven games or something

00:19:15without assisting or scoring a goal.

00:19:18Thierry Henry went his first seven or eight

00:19:21without assisting or scoring a goal for Arsenal,

00:19:23I think.

00:19:24So there's the point.

00:19:25Should we be more surprised

00:19:27when players do hit the ground running

00:19:28rather than when they don't?

00:19:29Yeah, I probably think

00:19:30we don't give them enough credit

00:19:31when they hit the ground running.

00:19:32I also think there's factors to it.

00:19:33And it's everything we've just spoke about

00:19:35in the last 10 minutes

00:19:35in terms of when you are a new player,

00:19:37going to a new club.

00:19:39Anywhere.

00:19:39Yeah, anywhere.

00:19:40Are you going to a settled club?

00:19:41Now, if Liverpool kept the majority

00:19:42of the team from last season,

00:19:43it'd have been going to a settled club

00:19:44so you'd probably fit in

00:19:45a little bit easier.

00:19:46You're going to a club

00:19:47that's had an enormous amount of change.

00:19:49So it's hard then to fit into a football club

00:19:51when there's been an enormous amount

00:19:53of change as well.

00:19:54Do you know what I mean?

00:19:54So I don't think we give people enough credit

00:19:56when they do hit the ground running.

00:19:57But I think it does depend on

00:19:59what kind of club you're going into

00:20:01at that time.

00:20:02And at Liverpool, there's been loads of change.

00:20:03The other thing in all of that,

00:20:05and we've talked about this before, Rory,

00:20:07as a final thing here,

00:20:09and we've had several emails

00:20:10on this same point,

00:20:11and we have mentioned this before as well.

00:20:13Paul in Amsterdam making the point,

00:20:16whilst also giving us a PS,

00:20:18I'll keep an eye out for Chris's car here.

00:20:20But he makes the point of grief.

00:20:23And we've mentioned this a few weeks ago

00:20:26when talking about Liverpool.

00:20:27You cannot calculate the effect

00:20:32that grief we'll be having on them

00:20:34as a group and on individuals.

00:20:37Yeah, and it's difficult

00:20:38because it feels a little bit glib

00:20:40to bring it up

00:20:41when the players themselves

00:20:42haven't mentioned anything about it.

00:20:44I think it was interesting.

00:20:45I think it might have been

00:20:46in his interview to Norwegian TV

00:20:48and Janard of Fjortoft.

00:20:49I think Van Dijk referenced it,

00:20:51but kind of obliquely,

00:20:52which may be the first time

00:20:54I've heard any of the players

00:20:54actually kind of say

00:20:56there are multiple factors

00:20:57going into this season

00:20:58that we need to be aware of.

00:21:00And it's understandable

00:21:02they don't want to talk about it.

00:21:03They are under absolutely

00:21:04no obligation to grieve in public.

00:21:07You'll also see a lot of people

00:21:08say, no, it's an excuse.

00:21:09You know, people deal with loss

00:21:11all the time

00:21:11and they have to go into work.

00:21:12And that is absolutely true.

00:21:15Lots and lots of people

00:21:16are dealing with loss

00:21:17and it's incredibly difficult

00:21:18regardless of what job you do.

00:21:20I think the thing

00:21:21that can be misunderstood

00:21:23about football

00:21:23is you don't need to drop 10%

00:21:25for it to have an impact

00:21:27on your performance.

00:21:27You need to drop 0.000001%

00:21:31and it will have a major impact

00:21:33on your performance

00:21:33because it's elite sport.

00:21:35It's the same as,

00:21:36I can't remember whose comparison,

00:21:37it's the same as an F1 car.

00:21:38Think about all the perfectly

00:21:40forged components in an F1 car.

00:21:43If one tiny little,

00:21:44I don't know,

00:21:45widget goes wrong,

00:21:47then the F1 car breaks down

00:21:48and that's elite sport.

00:21:49And so the Liverpool players

00:21:50may not be aware

00:21:51of the impact of the grief.

00:21:52Some of them,

00:21:53they'll all grieve in different ways

00:21:54at different times,

00:21:54at different speeds

00:21:55and that grief is

00:21:56an intensely personal thing.

00:21:57Most of us are fortunate enough

00:21:59not to be in jobs

00:22:00where when we are dealing

00:22:01with something like that,

00:22:02it's blatantly apparent

00:22:04because that tiny little thing

00:22:06in your mind

00:22:07that means you're not quite yourself

00:22:08doesn't have

00:22:10quite such a seismic visible impact.

00:22:12Most of us can phone it in

00:22:13for a bit,

00:22:14to be perfectly honest.

00:22:15Professional footballers can't.

00:22:17From the Chelsea point of view,

00:22:18Chris,

00:22:19where are they?

00:22:23I think Chelsea are okay.

00:22:26There's a lot of scrutiny

00:22:27on them this season.

00:22:30You know,

00:22:30the goalkeeping

00:22:31has been a big talking point,

00:22:35but it didn't help Mareska,

00:22:38you know,

00:22:38when they had two games

00:22:40where they went down

00:22:40to 10 men.

00:22:42You know,

00:22:43the one at Old Trafford,

00:22:44then the one at Brighton,

00:22:45I think they were ahead

00:22:46or drawing

00:22:47when they went down

00:22:47to 10 men,

00:22:48ended up losing the game

00:22:49and then all the pressure

00:22:50came back on him.

00:22:52I think Chelsea

00:22:53are going sort of quietly

00:22:55about their business

00:22:56if they can go quietly

00:22:57about their business

00:22:57and doing okay.

00:22:59I think they needed a result

00:23:00and it felt quite a big result

00:23:02and you saw the celebrations

00:23:03within the stadium.

00:23:04I haven't seen

00:23:05sort of Stamford Bridge

00:23:06as raucous

00:23:07for a while.

00:23:08It certainly wasn't

00:23:09as raucous as that

00:23:10when I was playing

00:23:11in my time.

00:23:12Well, it was,

00:23:13but more in a negative way.

00:23:15All right.

00:23:16All right.

00:23:16Okay.

00:23:17Yeah, that's fine.

00:23:17But, no,

00:23:18I think Maresk has talked

00:23:21quite openly about,

00:23:23you know,

00:23:24he wanted another centre-back in.

00:23:25They've got injuries

00:23:26to centre-back.

00:23:27You know,

00:23:27Levi Colwell was,

00:23:28you know,

00:23:29a massive loss for them

00:23:30in terms of their build-up play.

00:23:32They've had issues

00:23:34like surrounding Cole Palmer

00:23:35and his sort of fitness

00:23:37this season,

00:23:38but I think they're doing okay.

00:23:40Look,

00:23:40do I think they'll win

00:23:41the Premier League?

00:23:43Absolutely not.

00:23:44But it always seems to me

00:23:47from the outside

00:23:48to the view

00:23:50from certain Chelsea fans

00:23:51on Mareska

00:23:54is they're not quite convinced

00:23:56with him.

00:23:57But I think since he's gone in,

00:23:59he's, you know,

00:23:59he's done okay, really.

00:24:01And I just think

00:24:01there's a real need

00:24:03for patience.

00:24:04You know,

00:24:04it's strange how Chris says that.

00:24:05And I feel the same.

00:24:06When I watch Chelsea,

00:24:08there seems to be this

00:24:09negativity around the play.

00:24:11I think he's doing a great job.

00:24:12I really do.

00:24:13But it was similar, Chris,

00:24:14that when I was at Leicester.

00:24:16So when we was at Leicester

00:24:16and he was at Leicester with us

00:24:17and we won the league

00:24:18and we won it

00:24:19quite convincingly in the end.

00:24:20There was a little bit

00:24:21of a wobble up

00:24:21in the February time

00:24:22or whatever that was.

00:24:23But there was still like,

00:24:24it was as if like people

00:24:25wasn't convinced

00:24:25on his style of play

00:24:26and people would have

00:24:27an opinion of,

00:24:28oh, it's boring

00:24:29or you've got to be patient

00:24:30and you've got to be this,

00:24:31you've got to be that.

00:24:32And it's similar at Chelsea.

00:24:33I think he's doing a great job.

00:24:33I actually really like

00:24:34watching Chelsea

00:24:35only because I played under him

00:24:36so I understand

00:24:37the patterns of play

00:24:38and how he wants to play

00:24:43playing with four in midfield

00:24:44and a full-back coming in,

00:24:45whatever that may be.

00:24:46I think they're doing a great job

00:24:47and there's this negativity

00:24:47around the place.

00:24:49Whenever I watch him,

00:24:49whenever there's a little bit

00:24:50of pressure,

00:24:51it's always like,

00:24:51we need to get rid of him

00:24:52or we need to do this,

00:24:53we need to do that.

00:24:54Why?

00:24:55I don't know.

00:24:55I don't know it.

00:24:56I don't know if people get bored

00:24:57with the football.

00:24:58Is the football boring at times?

00:25:00No.

00:25:00Not to play him.

00:25:01Right.

00:25:01I played in it

00:25:02and it's one of the most enjoyable

00:25:03ways to play football.

00:25:06You're always on the ball.

00:25:07You've constantly got the ball

00:25:08and as a footballer,

00:25:09Chris, I don't know about you,

00:25:10but when a manager gives you

00:25:12an instruction manual

00:25:14to play football

00:25:14and people have different opinions

00:25:15and say,

00:25:16you should just go and play

00:25:17but he gave you so many ideas.

00:25:19He gave our Leicester team

00:25:20so many ideas

00:25:20on how to play football.

00:25:22I absolutely loved it.

00:25:23I loved everything about it

00:25:24so I know them Chelsea players

00:25:25will be saying the same as well

00:25:26because they're getting wins for him.

00:25:27We see in the Liverpool game

00:25:28in terms of scoring

00:25:29the last minute,

00:25:30that's not a team

00:25:30who's not enjoying playing football.

00:25:31That's a team who's wanting to play

00:25:33and wanting to win for the manager.

00:25:34Do you...

00:25:34Sorry, did he...

00:25:37Sorry, he actually gave you...

00:25:39No.

00:25:39No, I know.

00:25:40I mean, some people might.

00:25:42Yeah, no, no.

00:25:43What I mean by that is

00:25:44with the way he wanted you to play,

00:25:47you constantly had a pass to play

00:25:49because there were that many options

00:25:50on the ball.

00:25:50So I'd play in the middle

00:25:51of a back three, for example.

00:25:52So I'd know off the top

00:25:54because we worked on it

00:25:55every single day.

00:25:56We worked on passing patterns

00:25:58every day.

00:25:58We worked on unopposed patterns

00:26:00every single day.

00:26:00So where to pass,

00:26:01what your passes were,

00:26:02how to play against this system

00:26:04or that system.

00:26:05And what I meant by an instruction manual,

00:26:06you always had things in your head

00:26:07because it was repetitive

00:26:08every single day.

00:26:09And I can see that with Chelsea as well

00:26:11with the way Chelsea play.

00:26:13Did he not...

00:26:15Certainly against Liverpool,

00:26:17I actually think that they played

00:26:19a slightly different way

00:26:20and were a little bit more direct

00:26:21and went in behind.

00:26:23And maybe, you know,

00:26:23they saw the damage

00:26:24that Crystal Palace did

00:26:26to the Liverpool back four

00:26:27by being direct.

00:26:28So, you know,

00:26:29I don't...

00:26:30I think it's unfair

00:26:31to label Mareska

00:26:32with just, you know,

00:26:34that sort of brush

00:26:35that, you know,

00:26:36he just is always going to play out

00:26:37from the back

00:26:38and is going to be slow

00:26:39and methodical.

00:26:40I think he has adapted.

00:26:41I think that was evident against...

00:26:43I think the keepers

00:26:44made him do that, Chris.

00:26:45I think the keepers

00:26:45made him do that.

00:26:46We had...

00:26:47I don't know,

00:26:47he's had a tough time

00:26:48since he's gone there,

00:26:48but we had Mads Hermanson

00:26:49in the Championship

00:26:50and what he was like

00:26:51with his feet.

00:26:51He used to tell them,

00:26:52Mads,

00:26:52you don't kick long.

00:26:53You do not kick long

00:26:54at any point.

00:26:54If you kick long,

00:26:55unless I tell you to kick long,

00:26:56you don't kick long.

00:26:57But I think it's the keeper

00:26:58that's forced out.

00:26:59And to be fair,

00:27:00that's probably something

00:27:00he's learnt over the years

00:27:01and learnt since being at Leicester

00:27:02that he's got to have

00:27:04a different style of play

00:27:05or he's got to have

00:27:05a different way of doing it

00:27:06to adapt.

00:27:07Because he's done it

00:27:07similar to PSG.

00:27:09He dug Robert Sanchez out.

00:27:11He didn't dig him out

00:27:12last season,

00:27:13but when...

00:27:14I think it was last season,

00:27:15if I remember rightly,

00:27:16that he said

00:27:17that they were going to carry on

00:27:19playing the way they're playing.

00:27:20This is, you know,

00:27:20he was principled

00:27:21and, you know,

00:27:22if Robert Sanchez

00:27:23does go long,

00:27:25then he's going to drop him

00:27:26or words to that effect.

00:27:27I think that's what

00:27:28Mareska said last season.

00:27:30But certainly this season,

00:27:31I think that

00:27:32maybe it's like you say

00:27:33because he doesn't necessarily

00:27:35have the total trust

00:27:36in Sanchez

00:27:38playing out from the back.

00:27:39But, you know,

00:27:41I thought they mixed the game

00:27:42up pretty well

00:27:42against Liverpool

00:27:43and that directness

00:27:44in for Garnaccio,

00:27:45that was a strength.

00:27:47But do you not think, Chris,

00:27:48that that is partly...

00:27:49I'm certain that will be

00:27:50that all their analysis

00:27:51was like,

00:27:52well, look what Palace did

00:27:52to them down the flank,

00:27:53so let's just do that.

00:27:54But also,

00:27:55there's an awful lot of teams

00:27:57in the Premier League

00:27:57at the moment

00:27:57who seem to have decided

00:27:58that kind of messing about

00:28:01passing around to the back

00:28:01isn't quite as necessary

00:28:02as it used to be.

00:28:03The whole league

00:28:04has gone a lot more direct

00:28:05this season.

00:28:05And these ideas spread so fast

00:28:07that coaches must be

00:28:09looking at it thinking,

00:28:10yep, all right, fine,

00:28:10let's do that.

00:28:11We've got, you know,

00:28:12we'll be more physical,

00:28:13be more kind of intense,

00:28:15more direct,

00:28:15because it's working.

00:28:17Do you think,

00:28:17just a final one with him,

00:28:19do you think

00:28:20he still has

00:28:22too many players?

00:28:23Or do you think

00:28:24he likes the fact

00:28:25that he's got,

00:28:25you know,

00:28:26four or five wingers

00:28:27and can mix them up

00:28:29and change them about?

00:28:31I know they're struggling

00:28:32at centre-half,

00:28:33I know they haven't got

00:28:33Liam DeLapp,

00:28:34but I look at the wingers

00:28:35in particular

00:28:36and every week

00:28:38it could be

00:28:39two from four or five,

00:28:40couldn't he?

00:28:41Yeah, no,

00:28:41I think he probably likes it

00:28:42because of the amount

00:28:43of competition he's done.

00:28:44I think that's something

00:28:44that he can probably

00:28:45deal with as well.

00:28:46Let's be honest,

00:28:46they're top-class wingers,

00:28:47they're top-class players

00:28:48in terms of what he's playing

00:28:49and what he's got

00:28:49at his disposal,

00:28:50but I do think

00:28:52he's a very ruthless manager,

00:28:54I will say that.

00:28:55He says it how it is,

00:28:57we've seen that obviously

00:28:57with the Sterling situation,

00:28:58the Sassi situation,

00:28:59he's a very ruthless manager

00:29:00and he's not afraid

00:29:01to tell you where you're at.

00:29:02But I do think he'll like

00:29:03having the options

00:29:04that he's got at his disposal,

00:29:05yeah.

00:29:06Thank you very much

00:29:06for all the texts

00:29:08and emails about Chris's car.

00:29:11Lots of them link

00:29:12here to Norwich,

00:29:13Chris, obviously.

00:29:14JD1,

00:29:15who you may tell by this,

00:29:16is an Ipswich fan.

00:29:17It's Chris's car

00:29:18broken down outside

00:29:19Portman Road

00:29:19alongside the Norwich team.

00:29:24Ben,

00:29:24I have been on

00:29:26about your car,

00:29:26they've fixed it,

00:29:27they say it's big

00:29:28and versatile

00:29:28but it's lacking pace,

00:29:30does that sound familiar?

00:29:33And Simon in Norwich,

00:29:36I'm loving the fact

00:29:37that Chris's lost car

00:29:38is a discovery,

00:29:39you have to appreciate

00:29:40the irony.

00:29:41mnc

00:29:42at bbc.co.uk

00:29:4485058

00:29:45at 5 Live Sport

00:29:46after leaving

00:29:48Senna Lamans

00:29:49on the bench

00:29:49for the first three games

00:29:51since his deadline day

00:29:52move from Royal Antwerp,

00:29:53Reuben Amorim

00:29:54gave him his debut

00:29:55at the weekend

00:29:57against Sunderland.

00:29:58It gave United

00:29:59their first clean sheet

00:30:01of the season

00:30:01much to the delight

00:30:02of the United fans.

00:30:03And therefore,

00:30:17Peter Schmeichel

00:30:18is with us

00:30:19this evening.

00:30:20Thank you very much

00:30:21for coming on.

00:30:22Thank you very much

00:30:23for playing that.

00:30:24Hi guys,

00:30:24how are you doing?

00:30:25I mean,

00:30:28it's a lovely thing

00:30:29for him to hear,

00:30:30but the importance

00:30:32of that

00:30:32in amongst all the joking

00:30:33is he's got the fans

00:30:35on side

00:30:36from the first game

00:30:37and that's so important

00:30:39for a goalkeeper

00:30:40wherever they are,

00:30:40isn't it?

00:30:41Yeah,

00:30:42I mean,

00:30:42you think about

00:30:43the goalkeeping

00:30:43that we've had

00:30:44over the last couple

00:30:46of years

00:30:47and how many goals

00:30:48we've conceded

00:30:49from errors

00:30:50from goalkeepers.

00:30:51nine errors

00:30:54already this season?

00:30:56That's a lot,

00:30:57it's too much.

00:30:59I go back to

00:31:00when I played,

00:31:02I was,

00:31:03I mean,

00:31:03my instruction was,

00:31:05and I think

00:31:06it was the same thing

00:31:06with Edwin

00:31:07and with David De Gea,

00:31:09where we had to save

00:31:09the team

00:31:1010 points a season,

00:31:12not give them away.

00:31:13And that's a kind of,

00:31:15that's what we've gotten used

00:31:16to in the last couple

00:31:17of years.

00:31:17You know,

00:31:18goalkeepers giving

00:31:18goals away

00:31:20and therefore

00:31:21we're losing points.

00:31:22So it was nice to see,

00:31:24first of all,

00:31:24a clean sheet

00:31:25and then a really good

00:31:26and solid goalkeeping

00:31:27performance.

00:31:28I mean,

00:31:29on the one hand,

00:31:30you think

00:31:31it's somehow ridiculous

00:31:33that he comes

00:31:34for two crosses

00:31:35and dominates

00:31:36and takes them

00:31:37and that's what

00:31:38gets everybody going.

00:31:39But on the other hand,

00:31:41that domination

00:31:42is what

00:31:43United fans

00:31:44have craved,

00:31:45I suppose.

00:31:45Sometimes what the team

00:31:46have craved.

00:31:48It's what you see,

00:31:49you know,

00:31:49you see this young lad

00:31:51and he didn't really

00:31:54have much to do

00:31:55for a long,

00:31:56long time

00:31:57in that game.

00:31:57He had the ball

00:31:59literally only

00:32:00by his feet

00:32:01and he did quite well

00:32:02with his feet

00:32:02but that,

00:32:03you expect that

00:32:04from any young goalkeeper

00:32:05these days.

00:32:06That's how they're

00:32:07being brought up.

00:32:08So,

00:32:09you know,

00:32:09there was some

00:32:11reminiscence

00:32:11of Edwin.

00:32:13He,

00:32:13you know,

00:32:13he had a couple

00:32:14of long balls up

00:32:15with his right foot,

00:32:16a couple of long balls up

00:32:17with his left foot

00:32:18and you think,

00:32:18whoa,

00:32:19that looks quite good.

00:32:21And then,

00:32:21of course,

00:32:22he had that first save

00:32:23down to his left post

00:32:25which,

00:32:26you know,

00:32:26expect him to save that

00:32:27but,

00:32:27you know,

00:32:27once he's done that

00:32:28he's a goalkeeper now,

00:32:30he's saving balls.

00:32:32And from that,

00:32:33I think his confidence grew

00:32:34and then he came

00:32:36for the crosses

00:32:36that he could come for

00:32:37and you could see

00:32:38from the first cross

00:32:40he came from,

00:32:41you can see

00:32:42Matthias Delic,

00:32:43you know,

00:32:43his reaction to it

00:32:44was fantastic

00:32:45and that's what defenders,

00:32:46they want that

00:32:47when they're under the cosh,

00:32:49they really want the goalkeeper

00:32:50to come out

00:32:51and get the ball

00:32:53and take some of that

00:32:54pressure off.

00:32:56It's not happened

00:32:57at Manchester United

00:32:58for a bit.

00:32:59So,

00:33:00of course,

00:33:00the defenders

00:33:01were delighted

00:33:02and,

00:33:03you know,

00:33:04I mean,

00:33:05it's far too early

00:33:07to talk about

00:33:07how good this guy is.

00:33:09He's only young,

00:33:10he's hardly ever played

00:33:12any competitive football

00:33:13and most certainly

00:33:14not at the level

00:33:16of Manchester United

00:33:17and unfortunately

00:33:18we've had seen

00:33:20and we've seen

00:33:20over the years,

00:33:21you know,

00:33:22a lot of great players

00:33:23coming into Manchester United

00:33:25and the pressure

00:33:26is just relentless

00:33:27and they can't deal

00:33:28with that.

00:33:28So,

00:33:30it would be silly

00:33:31for someone like me

00:33:33to put a lot of pressure

00:33:33on him saying,

00:33:34oh,

00:33:34this is brilliant,

00:33:35now we have a goalkeeper

00:33:36who's there for the next

00:33:3720 years.

00:33:38He did well,

00:33:40he's got an international

00:33:41break now

00:33:42and you can think

00:33:42about his performance

00:33:43and then the next game

00:33:45he's got to go

00:33:46and do the same

00:33:46and then we see

00:33:47how he develops

00:33:48and the thing

00:33:50about goalkeepers

00:33:51is we all make mistakes,

00:33:53we all make mistakes

00:33:54that cost goals

00:33:55and that's when

00:33:56we find out

00:33:57how good people are,

00:33:58you know,

00:33:58how do they react

00:33:59to making those mistakes.

00:34:01So,

00:34:02it was nice,

00:34:03it was clean,

00:34:04it was positive

00:34:05and we won the game

00:34:06and a lot of things

00:34:08that we haven't been used

00:34:09to for a while.

00:34:10So,

00:34:12big smiles,

00:34:13international break.

00:34:16Yeah,

00:34:17I mean,

00:34:17if people are watching

00:34:18on the iPlayer

00:34:19or on the BBC Sport

00:34:20YouTube channel,

00:34:21you haven't had

00:34:22the Old Trafford

00:34:22background behind you

00:34:23for a while,

00:34:24Peter,

00:34:24so it's obviously

00:34:25been a good weekend

00:34:27because we've got that.

00:34:28Yeah,

00:34:29I think Peter's

00:34:29exactly right.

00:34:30I think what he said

00:34:31from a centre-back

00:34:32point of view,

00:34:32I think,

00:34:33listen,

00:34:33I'm a player

00:34:34who plays that position

00:34:34when a keeper

00:34:35comes out

00:34:35and just dominates it,

00:34:36it's brilliant.

00:34:36I was going to say,

00:34:37and I don't know

00:34:37what Peter thinks

00:34:38of this,

00:34:39was it,

00:34:40can we say

00:34:40and actually give

00:34:41the manager

00:34:41a bit of credit

00:34:42here and say

00:34:42it was actually

00:34:43good from the manager

00:34:44to put him

00:34:44into that game?

00:34:45Do you know

00:34:45what I mean,

00:34:46Peter?

00:34:46So,

00:34:46he's left him

00:34:47out the first

00:34:47couple of games.

00:34:49Was he,

00:34:49listen,

00:34:49I don't know this,

00:34:50I'm not spoke to him,

00:34:50but was he thinking

00:34:52in his head

00:34:52that the Sunderland

00:34:53at home game,

00:34:54and this is no

00:34:54disrespect to Sunderland,

00:34:55but Man Utd are expected

00:34:56to beat Sunderland at home,

00:34:58was it a good bit

00:34:58of management from him

00:34:59putting him into that game?

00:35:02Yeah,

00:35:02I think it is.

00:35:04It's good thinking

00:35:05by him.

00:35:06I don't think

00:35:07for one second

00:35:08that the other

00:35:09two goalkeepers

00:35:10are goalkeepers

00:35:11that he'd signed up for.

00:35:13So,

00:35:15as I started by saying,

00:35:16it's far too many errors

00:35:17that they've made.

00:35:19It's too many goals

00:35:20they've conceded,

00:35:21and I think he was

00:35:22very disappointed

00:35:23that it wasn't

00:35:24Donnarumma

00:35:25or Eddie Martinez

00:35:26that was arriving

00:35:29on that day,

00:35:30and it was this young lad

00:35:32that I'm quite sure

00:35:34that he probably

00:35:34didn't know too much about.

00:35:36The rumour is

00:35:37that he's signed

00:35:38purely on the data

00:35:39that he's had

00:35:40the best statistics

00:35:42over the last season

00:35:44for the best top 10 leagues

00:35:46or something like that,

00:35:48which at the end of the day

00:35:49tells you nothing

00:35:49when it comes to

00:35:51Manchester United goalkeeping.

00:35:53So,

00:35:54I think in his head,

00:35:55yes,

00:35:55this young lad

00:35:56hardly ever played.

00:35:57Doesn't really,

00:35:59doesn't play for Belgium,

00:36:00he's kind of number four,

00:36:02number five there.

00:36:04So,

00:36:05not a lot of experience.

00:36:06I'm going to wait

00:36:07and put him in a game,

00:36:08and of course,

00:36:08the Sunderland game,

00:36:10a home game,

00:36:11a team

00:36:11in normal circumstances,

00:36:14and I smile

00:36:15when I say this,

00:36:16we're supposed to beat Sunderland,

00:36:17you know,

00:36:18and then you have

00:36:18the international break.

00:36:20So,

00:36:20you put him in,

00:36:21and you know

00:36:22there's going to be

00:36:23a period of time

00:36:24after this game

00:36:24where there are no games

00:36:26for Man United,

00:36:26and then

00:36:27whatever happens

00:36:28in this game,

00:36:30you know,

00:36:31at the moment,

00:36:32it's very,

00:36:32very positive.

00:36:33It could have gone

00:36:33the other way.

00:36:34I mean,

00:36:35there is this situation

00:36:37where he,

00:36:38you can argue

00:36:38that he's touching the guy

00:36:40and it is ascending off.

00:36:42It's,

00:36:43I find it really,

00:36:44really difficult to see

00:36:45is it Bruno,

00:36:46is it him?

00:36:47The thing is,

00:36:49there was

00:36:49a little bit

00:36:50of a mistake there

00:36:51and it could have gone wrong

00:36:53and then,

00:36:54you know,

00:36:54that would have been

00:36:54the discussion

00:36:55for a couple of days

00:36:56but then the international

00:36:57takes over

00:36:58and so,

00:36:58yes,

00:36:59I think,

00:36:59yes,

00:36:59I really do think

00:37:01that was a good bit

00:37:01of management.

00:37:04I'm glad you brought that up,

00:37:05Peter,

00:37:05because I thought

00:37:05we were going to gloss over

00:37:06that big talking point.

00:37:08I think the point you make,

00:37:10had it led to a goal,

00:37:11then that would have turned

00:37:12completely the other way

00:37:14and would say,

00:37:14what if Manchester United

00:37:16brought there?

00:37:17I know,

00:37:17Rory,

00:37:17you're not a big fan

00:37:18of the Belgian League

00:37:19and the way that players

00:37:20shoot in there.

00:37:21I mean,

00:37:23that counts for nothing

00:37:24his career in Belgium.

00:37:26I can't say that

00:37:26it counts for nothing.

00:37:28I simply made the point,

00:37:29Chris,

00:37:29which I wouldn't have thought

00:37:30would be especially controversial.

00:37:32The standard of player

00:37:32in the Premier League

00:37:33is higher than it is

00:37:34in the Dupilla Pro League.

00:37:35That feels like

00:37:36it's not a ridiculous

00:37:37thing to say.

00:37:38There's not that many players

00:37:40in the Dupilla Pro League

00:37:41who would command

00:37:42six,

00:37:43you know,

00:37:43nine-figure transfer fees.

00:37:45I think the point

00:37:46that Conor and Peter

00:37:47make about

00:37:48kind of waiting

00:37:49to give Lamond a game

00:37:50that was really important

00:37:51because,

00:37:52you know,

00:37:52maybe you would have said

00:37:53Manchester derby,

00:37:54which is obviously

00:37:55when City gave Donnarumma

00:37:56his debut,

00:37:57and it did feel like

00:37:58a kind of

00:37:58a question mark

00:38:00over Lamond's

00:38:00because they stuck

00:38:01with by India.

00:38:03You'd have said

00:38:03maybe Brentford,

00:38:04but then Brentford

00:38:05is sort of set-piece

00:38:06aerial bombardment,

00:38:07isn't it?

00:38:08You don't necessarily

00:38:08want that.

00:38:09Whereas Sunderland at home,

00:38:10maybe they look at that

00:38:11and think stylistically

00:38:12that is,

00:38:13because it's always

00:38:13going to be a risk.

00:38:14There's always a chance

00:38:15that a goalkeeper

00:38:16will make a mistake,

00:38:17no matter how good

00:38:18they are.

00:38:19Maybe they look at that

00:38:20and think that is

00:38:21the kind of

00:38:23the least risky occasion.

00:38:24Because Amarim,

00:38:25I think,

00:38:25has spoken about

00:38:26the fact that

00:38:26if you don't start

00:38:27well as a goalkeeper,

00:38:29the confidence

00:38:30is much harder to,

00:38:31it's much easier

00:38:31to lose the confidence

00:38:32of your defenders

00:38:33than it is to gain it.

00:38:34And so I wonder

00:38:35if it was psychological

00:38:36or anything else.

00:38:38I wonder,

00:38:38sorry for interrupting,

00:38:39Peter,

00:38:40would you have liked that,

00:38:41though,

00:38:41to be,

00:38:42to have moved

00:38:43to Manchester United

00:38:43as Lomans did

00:38:45and not play

00:38:46that first game

00:38:47when you're the guy

00:38:48being brought in,

00:38:50you're the number,

00:38:50the seemingly

00:38:51the number one

00:38:52and you have to sit

00:38:53on the bench.

00:38:54How would you have felt

00:38:55about that?

00:38:56I came into the game

00:38:57at a time

00:39:00we had two subs

00:39:00and none of them

00:39:01were goalkeepers.

00:39:02We only had one goalkeeper

00:39:03in the squad.

00:39:05You know,

00:39:05it was a completely

00:39:07different time.

00:39:08If you got brought in

00:39:09But your personality now,

00:39:11how would you?

00:39:12No,

00:39:12of course not.

00:39:13Of course not.

00:39:14We don't want that.

00:39:16Nobody wants that.

00:39:17But I think

00:39:18this was a very

00:39:20unexpected move

00:39:21because there are

00:39:22strong rumours

00:39:23that they had,

00:39:24very serious talks

00:39:25with Donnarumma.

00:39:26And then,

00:39:27of course,

00:39:27it fell through

00:39:28for whatever reason.

00:39:29Was it because

00:39:30he rather wanted

00:39:31to go to Man City

00:39:32or was it because

00:39:33of financial?

00:39:33I don't know.

00:39:34And then on that

00:39:35Sunday day

00:39:36before the transfer

00:39:36window closed,

00:39:38it was reported

00:39:39by reliable sources

00:39:41that were

00:39:41negotiations

00:39:44for

00:39:45Emi Martinez

00:39:46to go to Old Shepard.

00:39:48So,

00:39:49he was never

00:39:50at this point,

00:39:51he was never

00:39:52the guy

00:39:52that was going

00:39:53to go in

00:39:53and play.

00:39:55I don't know

00:39:55if they've signed him

00:39:56regardless of,

00:39:58you know,

00:39:58if Donnarumma

00:39:59or Martinez

00:40:00had arrived.

00:40:01They could have thought

00:40:02he was one

00:40:02for the future

00:40:03and we,

00:40:03you know,

00:40:04we'll sign him

00:40:05and then maybe

00:40:05he goes somewhere

00:40:06on loan

00:40:07or he's set

00:40:07on the bend

00:40:08or whatever.

00:40:08I don't know

00:40:09that,

00:40:10but the reality

00:40:12is that none

00:40:12of the other

00:40:13guys came

00:40:13and so

00:40:14you're stuck

00:40:15with the goalkeepers

00:40:16that you have

00:40:17and we've,

00:40:18I mean,

00:40:18obviously we've

00:40:19covered that a lot,

00:40:20nine hours already,

00:40:21it's too much.

00:40:22So you had to make

00:40:23a change at some point.

00:40:24You talked,

00:40:25sorry Peter,

00:40:26you talked about,

00:40:27you know,

00:40:28what will be interesting

00:40:29will be how he reacts

00:40:30the first time

00:40:31he makes a mistake

00:40:33or makes an error,

00:40:33which everybody does

00:40:34and one of the things

00:40:35that we've discussed

00:40:36before here was,

00:40:37you know,

00:40:39if Donnarumma

00:40:39had made his debut

00:40:40as he did

00:40:40in the Manchester

00:40:41derby for City,

00:40:42if he'd made an error,

00:40:43nobody would have gone,

00:40:44well what on earth

00:40:45have you done

00:40:46because you've signed

00:40:47an Italy international

00:40:49who's won international

00:40:50trophies

00:40:51and has won

00:40:52the Champions League.

00:40:52The same with Martinez.

00:40:54If Martinez

00:40:54had made an error

00:40:55on debut,

00:40:56he's a World Cup winner.

00:40:57Did you,

00:40:58did you react

00:41:01to how,

00:41:02to making an error

00:41:03when you first

00:41:05joined United

00:41:05in the same way

00:41:06as you did,

00:41:07say,

00:41:07five years later

00:41:08when you had

00:41:09the back catalogue?

00:41:13Are you asking me

00:41:14if I ever made an error?

00:41:17I'll be honest

00:41:17with you,

00:41:18Peter,

00:41:19as I,

00:41:19as I got,

00:41:20as I got to the question,

00:41:22I thought,

00:41:23oh my word,

00:41:24well I know

00:41:24what I've done here,

00:41:25but I might as well

00:41:26just go with it anyhow.

00:41:28Yes,

00:41:28well done.

00:41:29Thanks,

00:41:30Chappos.

00:41:30I,

00:41:31I,

00:41:31I never,

00:41:35I learned very early

00:41:37on to accept

00:41:38that that's just

00:41:40part of my job

00:41:41and what separates

00:41:42me from other guys

00:41:44would be how I react,

00:41:45you know,

00:41:46if I don't,

00:41:47if I don't take

00:41:48that feeling

00:41:50of I've made,

00:41:51made a mistake

00:41:51into that next second,

00:41:53that next moment,

00:41:54if I'm,

00:41:54if I can leave

00:41:56that till after

00:41:56the game,

00:41:57for instance,

00:41:58then I'll be fine

00:41:59and it was something

00:42:00I worked on

00:42:01for,

00:42:02for,

00:42:02you know,

00:42:03for ever since,

00:42:05you know,

00:42:05I can remember

00:42:05and,

00:42:07and I did,

00:42:08I did have quite

00:42:09a good start

00:42:10for,

00:42:11for Man United

00:42:12but in my fifth game

00:42:13I did make a mistake.

00:42:14I came,

00:42:15I got a little bit

00:42:16too over eager,

00:42:17came for a cross

00:42:17that I shouldn't have

00:42:18come for,

00:42:18I didn't get anywhere

00:42:19near it and Mark Chapman

00:42:20was behind me

00:42:21and headed it in

00:42:22and then,

00:42:23you know,

00:42:23what do I do then?

00:42:25Do I crumble

00:42:26in front of

00:42:27an Old Trafford crowd

00:42:28or do you just ignore

00:42:29that this has happened

00:42:30and then carry on

00:42:31and,

00:42:32and,

00:42:32and just do my game

00:42:33and,

00:42:34and that was my,

00:42:34that was the test

00:42:35towards myself

00:42:36and of course

00:42:36the test

00:42:37towards Old Trafford

00:42:39as well

00:42:39and,

00:42:40and I think,

00:42:41you know,

00:42:42that was part of,

00:42:43part of my strength

00:42:43was that I never ever

00:42:45in the,

00:42:46the 90 minutes

00:42:46that I played

00:42:47I never believed

00:42:49I made a mistake.

00:42:50I of course knew

00:42:51and I would work

00:42:53on whatever I did

00:42:54in,

00:42:56you know,

00:42:56when I get back home

00:42:57I would think about

00:42:59what can I do next time?

00:43:01What,

00:43:01what should I have done?

00:43:02Analyze it a little bit

00:43:03and if it was

00:43:04a mistake

00:43:06that didn't lead to,

00:43:07you know,

00:43:07some mistakes you make

00:43:08and it's a goal

00:43:09and you haven't got a clue

00:43:10why you made that mistake

00:43:11and there's no explanation,

00:43:13it's just,

00:43:13you just make yourself

00:43:14look silly

00:43:14but you'd make mistakes

00:43:16which is like a decision,

00:43:17you come,

00:43:18you go somewhere

00:43:19and it doesn't end up

00:43:21like a goal

00:43:21but it created

00:43:22a very difficult situation

00:43:23or dangerous situation

00:43:25because you did that,

00:43:26I would,

00:43:27I would then

00:43:27try

00:43:29and see if I could

00:43:30reenact that

00:43:30in training

00:43:31and then come up

00:43:33with the solutions

00:43:33that I would

00:43:34kind of

00:43:34come,

00:43:36come up with

00:43:37in the aftermath

00:43:38of the game

00:43:38but certainly never

00:43:39ever think about it

00:43:40in the game

00:43:41and that is a difficulty

00:43:42I think

00:43:43and this,

00:43:43this is a,

00:43:44it's,

00:43:44it's a point

00:43:45that we can take on to

00:43:46I heard you talk about

00:43:48Robert Sanchez as well

00:43:50when you play

00:43:52for these clubs

00:43:53and the pressure

00:43:54it's so high

00:43:55every little thing

00:43:57you do

00:43:58is under,

00:43:58is under the loop

00:43:59so when you're the goalkeeper

00:44:00and for instance

00:44:02you say Sanchez

00:44:03is not very good

00:44:03with his feet

00:44:04I don't think

00:44:05he's that bad

00:44:06I actually don't think

00:44:07he's a bad goalkeeper

00:44:08and I was asked

00:44:09on air the other day

00:44:10by Jamie Carragher

00:44:11can Chelsea win

00:44:12the league with Sanchez

00:44:13and I said

00:44:15yeah

00:44:16of course he can

00:44:17they need to defend better

00:44:18I think they defend

00:44:20they've been defending

00:44:21really, really bad

00:44:22that makes him

00:44:23a bad goalkeeper

00:44:23you know

00:44:24so they

00:44:25you have to complement

00:44:26each other

00:44:26you have to

00:44:27you have to work

00:44:28as a team

00:44:29so the goalkeeper

00:44:30the back forward

00:44:30the spine up the team

00:44:32you know

00:44:33that's got to work

00:44:34as one unit

00:44:34if somebody doesn't

00:44:36play well

00:44:36the rest of them

00:44:37will suffer

00:44:38and that's

00:44:39that's a difference

00:44:40from winning the league

00:44:41and not winning the league

00:44:42when you win the league

00:44:43you have that working

00:44:44it will just work

00:44:45game by game

00:44:45by game

00:44:46by game

00:44:46and there's a trust there

00:44:47and it's clear

00:44:49that when

00:44:49when you concede

00:44:50the goals

00:44:51that Chelsea has conceded

00:44:52it creates that insecurity

00:44:54straight away

00:44:55you see it

00:44:55when you're there

00:44:56you know

00:44:57they look at each other

00:44:58there's not this

00:44:59kind of

00:45:00everything works

00:45:01automatically

00:45:02as it's supposed

00:45:03to be

00:45:04be working

00:45:05so

00:45:05you know

00:45:07I

00:45:07go back to

00:45:09man United

00:45:09be a man United goalkeeper

00:45:10it's difficult

00:45:11because there's so much pressure

00:45:12and everything you do

00:45:13is under the loop

00:45:14and you need to be strong

00:45:16Peter

00:45:16thank you very much

00:45:17for coming on

00:45:18thank you

00:45:19lovely to see you

00:45:20thanks guys

00:45:20and you guys

00:45:21take care

00:45:21see you soon

00:45:22Peter

00:45:23Peter Schmeichel

00:45:24with us

00:45:24on the Monday Night Club

00:45:25I know you wanted to jump in

00:45:27and say it was Lee Chapman

00:45:28but

00:45:29I did

00:45:29I was just trying to think

00:45:30which Chapman it was

00:45:31but we now have the clip

00:45:32that I basically scored a header

00:45:34past Peter Schmeichel

00:45:35at Old Trafford

00:45:36but sadly

00:45:37Chap as it was

00:45:38for Leeds

00:45:39yeah then

00:45:40then that falls down

00:45:41a little bit

00:45:41don't get me in trouble there

00:45:42but yeah

00:45:43but that

00:45:44that will now be clipped up

00:45:46and I will always have that

00:45:47I'll play that to my kids

00:45:48will you really

00:45:49have I ever told you

00:45:52about the day I scored

00:45:53here is

00:45:55eyewitness testimony

00:45:56from Peter Schmeichel

00:45:57it's interesting

00:45:59what he says though

00:45:59about the

00:46:00about the mistakes

00:46:01and I was going to say

00:46:02although I'm

00:46:03slightly reticent

00:46:04I'll get in trouble with Chris

00:46:05Peter Schmeichel

00:46:06started his career

00:46:07before the backpass rule changed

00:46:09that's quite a long time ago

00:46:10I think there's so many more ways

00:46:12for goalkeepers to make mistakes now

00:46:13to be perfectly honest

00:46:14like we asked so much more

00:46:16of keepers

00:46:17and then judge them

00:46:18in all these different ways

00:46:20that it feels slightly unfair

00:46:22and then the other difference is

00:46:23that

00:46:24it's not

00:46:25like Peter could probably

00:46:26have kind of tuned out

00:46:26a lot of the criticism

00:46:27from the radio

00:46:28or

00:46:28like match of the day

00:46:29or the papers

00:46:30just if you don't want to

00:46:31read the papers

00:46:31just don't buy paper

00:46:32it's relatively easy

00:46:33first thing

00:46:34young players

00:46:35certainly I would hope

00:46:36Conor would back me up on this

00:46:37first thing they do

00:46:38when they're in the dressing room

00:46:39pick up a phone

00:46:40yeah

00:46:41exactly right

00:46:42exactly right

00:46:43yeah

00:46:44and I don't think

00:46:44what we're already saying there

00:46:45I don't think Man United

00:46:46have helped the goalkeepers

00:46:47over the years

00:46:47because

00:46:48I'm bewildered

00:46:50why they haven't gone

00:46:51and signed a big goalkeeper

00:46:52so

00:46:52Peter was obviously

00:46:53on about

00:46:54Emi Martinez there

00:46:55he'd have been perfect

00:46:56wouldn't he

00:46:56let's be honest

00:46:57a big character

00:46:57who

00:46:58you expect

00:46:59he was on loan

00:47:01at Wolves

00:47:01a few years ago

00:47:02you'd expect

00:47:03wouldn't really

00:47:04react to them

00:47:04so he makes a mistake

00:47:05he gets on with it

00:47:06he goes again

00:47:06so

00:47:07I'm bewildered

00:47:08why they're not going to

00:47:08sign the keeper

00:47:09like that

00:47:09Conor what was he like

00:47:10at Wolves

00:47:10yeah do you know what

00:47:12nothing like he is now

00:47:13nothing like

00:47:14he was quite quiet

00:47:15a good keeper

00:47:16you could obviously tell

00:47:17he was a really good keeper

00:47:18but what he's gone on

00:47:18to do

00:47:20is unbelievable

00:47:21honestly

00:47:21again we're talking about

00:47:22mistakes

00:47:23he made a few mistakes

00:47:24for us in the championship

00:47:24and he played every now and again

00:47:26we had Karl Hakimi at the time

00:47:27and they were rotating a little bit

00:47:29one would play

00:47:30the other would play

00:47:30but he's quite a quiet lad

00:47:32and then I see him

00:47:33dancing at the World Cup final

00:47:34and I never ever expected that

00:47:35mate believe me

00:47:36but

00:47:38and Peter's right

00:47:40isn't he

00:47:40you don't go too early

00:47:42after one performance

00:47:43but

00:47:44and I know you're going back

00:47:46to how he could have

00:47:47you know

00:47:47cost a goal

00:47:48Chris

00:47:48could have been sent off

00:47:50but he did seem to have

00:47:52a presence

00:47:53in that game

00:47:54on Saturday

00:47:55you know

00:47:55he was

00:47:56he was directing people

00:47:58he was shouting

00:47:59he was coming for

00:48:00crosses

00:48:01there was a presence there

00:48:03yeah

00:48:05yeah

00:48:05I'm with Peter though

00:48:07you know

00:48:07about not going too early

00:48:08he didn't have

00:48:09too much to do

00:48:10there was the save

00:48:12at the end

00:48:12which I think

00:48:13Tolby should have scored

00:48:14actually

00:48:14and you know

00:48:15he sort of

00:48:16saved it with his legs

00:48:17which was important

00:48:18he looked comfortable enough

00:48:19on the ball

00:48:20but you know

00:48:20he's a Manchester United

00:48:22goalkeeper

00:48:22and

00:48:23as you pointed out

00:48:25the first real mistake

00:48:27he makes

00:48:28and he did get away

00:48:29with one

00:48:29at the weekend

00:48:30the first real mistake

00:48:32which he makes

00:48:33which leads to a goal

00:48:34then there will be

00:48:35a pile on

00:48:35the one thing

00:48:36I think I'm right

00:48:37in saying this

00:48:38the one thing

00:48:38which has surprised me

00:48:40a little bit

00:48:40and I wanted to ask

00:48:41Peter this actually

00:48:42was I think

00:48:43Ruben Amarin was talking

00:48:44about possibly

00:48:45rotating the goalkeepers

00:48:47I don't

00:48:48I don't really like

00:48:50that

00:48:50at all

00:48:51how much do you think

00:48:52Ruben Amarin means that

00:48:53Chris

00:48:53did Arteta not say

00:48:56he said it

00:48:57well

00:48:58I know what you mean

00:49:02but he said it

00:49:03so

00:49:04you know

00:49:05are we

00:49:05we're going to

00:49:06sort of

00:49:06just query everything

00:49:07that Ruben Amarin says

00:49:08and say well

00:49:09does he really mean that

00:49:10question everything

00:49:11the

00:49:11I think

00:49:12I think when managers

00:49:14say that

00:49:15generally

00:49:15it's a little bit

00:49:16of a kind of

00:49:17they're playing

00:49:18they're trying to

00:49:19keep people happy

00:49:19you don't want to say

00:49:20yep

00:49:20Altai Bain there

00:49:21very much my second choice

00:49:22not as good as this new kid

00:49:23just as

00:49:24Mikel Arteta said

00:49:25I've got two number ones

00:49:26and then it turned out

00:49:27that one of the number ones

00:49:28was the one that played

00:49:29and the other one

00:49:29was Aaron Ramsdale

00:49:30let's move it on

00:49:32to Nottingham Forest

00:49:33beaten at Newcastle

00:49:35another defeat

00:49:36then for Ange Postacoglu

00:49:37afterwards

00:49:38he spoke to Stephen Wyeth

00:49:39seven games

00:49:41in the 26 days

00:49:42since you took over

00:49:43it's been a

00:49:43it's been a rollercoaster

00:49:44you'd have known

00:49:45that was going to be

00:49:45a challenge

00:49:46even bigger challenge

00:49:47than you anticipated

00:49:48no not really

00:49:49I knew it was a big

00:49:49challenge walking in

00:49:50and that's what it is

00:49:51and there's nothing

00:49:52wrong with that

00:49:53I mean I

00:49:53I don't get why people

00:49:55kind of

00:49:56think that this is

00:49:57something that

00:49:58you know

00:49:59is a burden

00:50:01in any way

00:50:01I love a challenge

00:50:02the alternative is

00:50:03that I wouldn't

00:50:03you know

00:50:04be sitting at home

00:50:04watching the game

00:50:05and I don't want to do that

00:50:06I want to be in the middle of it

00:50:07so that's where I am

00:50:07and the belief I had

00:50:09and the confidence I had

00:50:10going into the job

00:50:11hasn't wavered it one bit

00:50:12yeah we haven't got the results

00:50:14in this period

00:50:14but not through the lack

00:50:16of effort from the players

00:50:17or you know

00:50:18the lack of commitment

00:50:19to a different style of football

00:50:20all those things are there

00:50:21we've just got to get the results now

00:50:22and we've got two weeks

00:50:23to get that right

00:50:24the nature of the business

00:50:25there always seems to be somebody

00:50:27in the spotlight

00:50:28and at the moment

00:50:28it's burning brightly

00:50:30on you

00:50:31are you feeling that

00:50:32and do you feel that

00:50:32that's fair

00:50:33bearing in mind

00:50:34how little time

00:50:35you've had so far

00:50:35no

00:50:37like I said

00:50:38if I didn't want this

00:50:39I wouldn't

00:50:40you know

00:50:40I had an option

00:50:41I didn't have to take the role

00:50:42so it's fine

00:50:44if people want to assess me

00:50:45on

00:50:46yeah

00:50:46three and a half weeks work

00:50:47there's nothing I can say

00:50:49that's going to change that

00:50:50what I've seen

00:50:52and what I've felt

00:50:52in this last sort of period

00:50:54since I've taken over

00:50:55is that

00:50:55we're heading in the direction

00:50:57I want us to

00:50:58the results don't reflect

00:51:00I think

00:51:00the way we've

00:51:02sort of embraced

00:51:03what we want to do

00:51:04but the results will come

00:51:05and

00:51:05in the meantime

00:51:06it's a struggle

00:51:07and it's a fight

00:51:09and there's nothing wrong with that

00:51:11there's nothing wrong with that

00:51:12we don't

00:51:13want everything

00:51:14sort of handed to us

00:51:15on a platter

00:51:15you've got to fight for things

00:51:16so

00:51:17I've fought for things

00:51:18my whole life

00:51:19so it's just another fight

00:51:20that I love to be

00:51:21in the middle of

00:51:21where do you stand

00:51:24on all of that Chris

00:51:25I can't ever remember

00:51:31and I don't know

00:51:32whether you

00:51:32and Rory

00:51:33and Connor's

00:51:33a little bit younger

00:51:34I cannot ever remember

00:51:35a fan base

00:51:36getting stuck

00:51:37into a manager

00:51:38and singing

00:51:39for a manager

00:51:40to be sacked

00:51:41after six games

00:51:42I just

00:51:43for the life of me

00:51:44I don't understand

00:51:45well we're going to talk

00:51:46about Rangers

00:51:47after eight o'clock

00:51:48yeah

00:51:49I was talking

00:51:52in a country

00:51:52with a bit of sanity

00:51:53I mean

00:51:57it's mad what's

00:51:58gone on in Scotland

00:51:58but the whole

00:52:00that

00:52:00honestly

00:52:01when have you

00:52:02any of you

00:52:03ever heard

00:52:04a fan base

00:52:04singing for their own

00:52:05manager

00:52:06to be sacked

00:52:08after six games

00:52:10I found that

00:52:11ridiculous

00:52:12I think there's an

00:52:12entitled element

00:52:13to the Nottingham Forest

00:52:14support

00:52:15the recent success

00:52:16and their clear

00:52:17love for Nuno

00:52:18and I get that

00:52:20and I do understand

00:52:21that

00:52:22but

00:52:22Nuno

00:52:23hang on

00:52:24they're not

00:52:25just to rewind

00:52:26that a little bit

00:52:27they're not entitled

00:52:28because of

00:52:30qualifying

00:52:31isn't it more

00:52:34Nuno going

00:52:36here

00:52:37isn't it

00:52:37but that's not

00:52:37Angie's fault

00:52:38no I know it isn't

00:52:39but the fans

00:52:42didn't think

00:52:43that there was

00:52:43anything wrong

00:52:44under Nuno

00:52:45in the way

00:52:45that they were

00:52:46going

00:52:46and therefore

00:52:47would resent

00:52:48not resent

00:52:50but maybe have

00:52:50a problem

00:52:51with whoever

00:52:52was coming in

00:52:54unless they hit

00:52:54the ground running

00:52:55they don't like

00:52:56their stepdad

00:52:57that's completely

00:52:58natural

00:52:58but the

00:52:59situation here

00:53:01is you can't

00:53:01pin that on

00:53:02Poster Coddle

00:53:02there are two

00:53:04separate things

00:53:05going on there

00:53:05and I get that

00:53:05it's difficult

00:53:06and complicated

00:53:07and the fans

00:53:07will be furious

00:53:09at the loss

00:53:09of Nuno

00:53:10because

00:53:10it was weird

00:53:11watching Nuno

00:53:12at the Emirates

00:53:13on Saturdays

00:53:13you're sort of

00:53:14watching and thinking

00:53:14you're the Nottingham

00:53:15Forest manager

00:53:16what are you doing

00:53:17here

00:53:17you're in the

00:53:18wrong place

00:53:19but I think

00:53:21taking that out

00:53:22on Poster Coddle

00:53:22is counterproductive

00:53:25I think what a

00:53:25Forest fan would say

00:53:26if Max was here

00:53:27I think what he

00:53:29would say is

00:53:29that the results

00:53:31and the performances

00:53:32haven't really done

00:53:33anything to endear

00:53:33Poster Coddle

00:53:34to the fan base

00:53:36but it still feels

00:53:38very early

00:53:39not to be

00:53:40kind of giving him

00:53:42the benefit

00:53:43of the doubt

00:53:43and seeing if you

00:53:44can make a bit

00:53:45of difference

00:53:45I think

00:53:45would Rafa

00:53:47at Everton

00:53:48have they turned

00:53:49on him

00:53:49I think they

00:53:49might have turned

00:53:49on him before

00:53:50he managed

00:53:50any games

00:53:51to be honest

00:53:51were you there

00:53:55Connor?

00:53:55No I wasn't

00:53:56at Everton

00:53:57but obviously

00:53:57I thought

00:53:58they'd gone

00:53:59before they'd

00:54:00even started

00:54:00Rafa

00:54:01what I can say

00:54:04about this

00:54:04situation

00:54:04I think

00:54:05is

00:54:05it bewilders

00:54:08me the way

00:54:08they're asking

00:54:09they're singing

00:54:10for his name

00:54:10do you know

00:54:11how hard it is

00:54:12to change

00:54:13from

00:54:13so Nuno

00:54:13was a transition

00:54:14manager

00:54:14Nuno was a

00:54:15counter-attack

00:54:15manager

00:54:16he'd done it

00:54:16with us at

00:54:16Wolves

00:54:17wherever he's

00:54:18been successful

00:54:18that's how he's

00:54:19played

00:54:19and he plays

00:54:20with

00:54:20flyers on the

00:54:21wing

00:54:21Alanga

00:54:22Hudson

00:54:22Adoy

00:54:23Wood

00:54:23down the

00:54:23middle

00:54:23and you can

00:54:24see it now

00:54:24at West Ham

00:54:25what he's

00:54:25trying to do

00:54:25Full Krug

00:54:26Somerville

00:54:26Jared Bowen

00:54:27but to go

00:54:29from his

00:54:30style of

00:54:30play

00:54:31to Posta

00:54:32Coglu's

00:54:32style of

00:54:33play

00:54:33in the

00:54:33space of

00:54:34seven games

00:54:35I think it

00:54:35is

00:54:36whatever it

00:54:37is

00:54:37that is

00:54:38unbelievably

00:54:39hard

00:54:39I don't

00:54:40care what

00:54:40anybody

00:54:40says

00:54:41that's

00:54:41unbelievably

00:54:41hard

00:54:42but for

00:54:45a team

00:54:46to do

00:54:46that

00:54:46and then

00:54:47players

00:54:47in that

00:54:47dressing

00:54:47room

00:54:48to

00:54:48completely

00:54:49flip that

00:54:49way of

00:54:50playing

00:54:50on your

00:54:50head

00:54:50and go

00:54:50the

00:54:50complete

00:54:51opposite

00:54:51way

00:54:51that

00:54:52is

00:54:52so

00:54:52hard

00:54:53I don't

00:54:54understand

00:54:54why the

00:54:55fans are

00:54:55doing it

00:54:56but I

00:54:56understand

00:54:56they love

00:54:57Nuno

00:54:57I love

00:54:58Nuno

00:54:58when I

00:54:58was at

00:54:58Wolves

00:54:58he didn't

00:54:59want to

00:54:59leave

00:54:59Wolves

00:54:59he's that

00:55:00sort of

00:55:00manager

00:55:00but to

00:55:01not give

00:55:02Posta

00:55:02Coglu

00:55:02time is

00:55:03beyond me

00:55:03it really

00:55:04is

00:55:04but from

00:55:05a

00:55:05to try

00:55:07and look

00:55:08at it

00:55:08from a

00:55:08fans

00:55:08perspective

00:55:09and Chris

00:55:10you're a

00:55:10Nottingham

00:55:10Forest

00:55:11fan

00:55:11well you

00:55:12were last

00:55:12season

00:55:13are you still

00:55:14I was

00:55:14until the

00:55:15abuse that

00:55:16Ang took

00:55:17on Thursday

00:55:17night

00:55:18I'm taking

00:55:19myself out

00:55:19of that

00:55:19but if

00:55:20you're

00:55:20going to

00:55:20put

00:55:20yourself

00:55:21in a

00:55:21fan's

00:55:22position

00:55:23here

00:55:23Forest

00:55:25had it

00:55:27as good

00:55:28as they

00:55:28had had

00:55:29it

00:55:29in

00:55:3030

00:55:31years

00:55:32they

00:55:33enjoyed

00:55:34their

00:55:35manager

00:55:35they enjoyed

00:55:36their players

00:55:36they enjoyed

00:55:37their football

00:55:38they enjoyed

00:55:39the success

00:55:39that they

00:55:40had

00:55:40I know

00:55:41they thought

00:55:42it might have

00:55:42been a little

00:55:43bit better

00:55:43for them

00:55:44towards the

00:55:44end of

00:55:45last season

00:55:45but

00:55:45still a

00:55:47successful

00:55:48season

00:55:48and therefore

00:55:49there will

00:55:50be anger

00:55:51at probably

00:55:52a lot

00:55:52of people

00:55:53at how

00:55:54it just

00:55:55appears to

00:55:56have been

00:55:57tossed

00:55:58away

00:55:58at the

00:56:00moment

00:56:00all of

00:56:01that momentum

00:56:01has gone

00:56:02so I

00:56:02and they've

00:56:04and I suppose

00:56:05they've brought

00:56:05in a manager

00:56:06haven't they

00:56:07Chris

00:56:07who

00:56:08is quite

00:56:10combative

00:56:11and

00:56:12and had

00:56:13a very

00:56:14up and down

00:56:15season

00:56:15last season

00:56:16depending on

00:56:17your point of

00:56:18view with

00:56:18a European

00:56:19trophy

00:56:19compared to

00:56:20how it

00:56:20went in

00:56:21the league

00:56:21it all

00:56:22just goes

00:56:23into this

00:56:23melting pot

00:56:24where you

00:56:24can understand

00:56:25the frustration

00:56:26I

00:56:27I can

00:56:30but

00:56:30you know

00:56:31it happened

00:56:31it doesn't

00:56:32help anybody

00:56:32I know

00:56:33but

00:56:33but you know

00:56:35they love

00:56:35Nuno

00:56:35and Nottingham

00:56:37Forest fans

00:56:37love the

00:56:38owner

00:56:38Maranakis

00:56:39because he's

00:56:40a very

00:56:40hands-on

00:56:41owner

00:56:41you know

00:56:42he's there

00:56:43he's

00:56:43you know

00:56:45he's

00:56:46visible

00:56:46they absolutely

00:56:47adore him

00:56:48but he's

00:56:49made this

00:56:49decision

00:56:49as Connor

00:56:50quite rightly

00:56:50says to go

00:56:51with a polar

00:56:52opposite

00:56:52and then you

00:56:53think well

00:56:54there needs

00:56:54to be an

00:56:55element of

00:56:56patience

00:56:56and in

00:56:57fairness to

00:56:58Poster Coghler

00:56:58at the weekend

00:56:59you know

00:56:59I was

00:57:00I was

00:57:00there at

00:57:01the Newcastle

00:57:02game

00:57:02he set up

00:57:03to contain

00:57:04and counter

00:57:05attack

00:57:05their issue

00:57:05was they

00:57:06couldn't get

00:57:06up the

00:57:06pitch

00:57:07and you

00:57:08know

00:57:08Newcastle

00:57:09it's

00:57:10you know

00:57:11not an

00:57:11easy game

00:57:12to go up

00:57:13to St

00:57:13James's Park

00:57:14you know

00:57:15after what

00:57:15happened on

00:57:16Thursday night

00:57:16the pummeling

00:57:17which

00:57:18Ang

00:57:18Postacoglu

00:57:19took

00:57:20but you

00:57:21know

00:57:21I think

00:57:22there were

00:57:22signs

00:57:22that

00:57:23not signs

00:57:24but it

00:57:24showed that

00:57:24he can

00:57:25play

00:57:25a different

00:57:26way

00:57:26Newcastle

00:57:27ended up

00:57:27suffocating

00:57:28them

00:57:28and

00:57:29deserved

00:57:29to win

00:57:30but any

00:57:31manager

00:57:32needs

00:57:32time

00:57:32he's

00:57:32barely

00:57:33been

00:57:33in

00:57:33the

00:57:33job

00:57:33for

00:57:34four

00:57:35weeks

00:57:35I

00:57:35don't

00:57:38see

00:57:39this

00:57:39lasting

00:57:41long

00:57:41I

00:57:42don't

00:57:42see it

00:57:42ending

00:57:43well

00:57:43for

00:57:43Ang

00:57:43Postacoglu

00:57:44just

00:57:44based

00:57:45on

00:57:45I

00:57:45don't

00:57:46think

00:57:47the

00:57:47Nottingham

00:57:47Forest

00:57:47fans

00:57:48in

00:57:48the

00:57:48main

00:57:48will

00:57:48change

00:57:50the

00:57:50mind

00:57:50about

00:57:51him

00:57:51but I

00:57:52think

00:57:52it's

00:57:53deeply

00:57:53unfair

00:57:55and it

00:57:55just

00:57:55sums up

00:57:56where

00:57:56we're

00:57:57at

00:57:57in

00:57:57the

00:57:57game

00:57:58now

00:57:58about

00:57:58how

00:57:59short

00:57:59term

00:58:00people

00:58:01think

00:58:02and I

00:58:02don't

00:58:03think

00:58:04that's

00:58:04right

00:58:04everybody

00:58:05needs

00:58:05time

00:58:06to

00:58:06build

00:58:06and

00:58:07if

00:58:07Ang

00:58:08doesn't

00:58:08get

00:58:08time

00:58:08then

00:58:09it

00:58:10looks

00:58:11like

00:58:11that'll

00:58:11be

00:58:11the

00:58:11way

00:58:11that's

00:58:12unfair

00:58:12on

00:58:12him

00:58:12when

00:58:14you

00:58:14say

00:58:15about

00:58:15them

00:58:16loving

00:58:17Maranakis

00:58:17you know

00:58:18a little

00:58:18bit more

00:58:18than me

00:58:19about

00:58:19the

00:58:19Forest

00:58:20fans

00:58:20situation

00:58:20could it

00:58:21not

00:58:21have

00:58:21been

00:58:21easy

00:58:22for

00:58:22him

00:58:22to

00:58:22solve

00:58:22the

00:58:22situation

00:58:23with

00:58:23Nuno

00:58:26for

00:58:29me

00:58:29looking

00:58:30at

00:58:30press

00:58:30comments

00:58:31that he

00:58:31had

00:58:31it was

00:58:31not a cry

00:58:32for help

00:58:33but a little

00:58:33bit like

00:58:33let's have a

00:58:33conversation

00:58:34let's sort

00:58:34this out

00:58:35is the

00:58:35problem

00:58:35not

00:58:36Maranakis

00:58:36making this

00:58:37decision

00:58:37surely

00:58:38the

00:58:38Forest

00:58:38fans

00:58:40are sat

00:58:40there

00:58:40going

00:58:40you should

00:58:41have

00:58:41just

00:58:41made up

00:58:42with

00:58:42Nuno

00:58:42that is

00:58:44why

00:58:44you'll

00:58:45never be

00:58:45a great

00:58:45shipping

00:58:46magnate

00:58:46that's

00:58:48not

00:58:48how that

00:58:49works

00:58:49you have

00:58:50to be

00:58:50proud

00:58:50and

00:58:50irascible

00:58:51and refuse

00:58:51to change

00:58:51your mind

00:58:52it just

00:58:52seems

00:58:53pretty easy

00:58:53for me

00:58:53I would

00:58:54have

00:58:54thought

00:58:55I don't

00:58:56know what

00:58:56the root

00:58:57cause

00:58:57of the

00:58:58dispute

00:58:59was

00:59:00how their

00:59:00relationship

00:59:01soured

00:59:02but yeah

00:59:03you'd have

00:59:03thought

00:59:03that in

00:59:04most cases

00:59:05someone at

00:59:06some point

00:59:07would have

00:59:07been like

00:59:07this guy's

00:59:07quite good

00:59:08at managing

00:59:08so maybe

00:59:08we should

00:59:09just get

00:59:10him to

00:59:10apologise

00:59:10to the

00:59:11big boss

00:59:11and then

00:59:12let's all

00:59:13try and move

00:59:13on with our

00:59:13lives

00:59:14but I don't

00:59:14think that's

00:59:15you wouldn't

00:59:16get anywhere

00:59:16in the

00:59:16Greek

00:59:16shipping

00:59:16industry

00:59:17Connor

00:59:17no

00:59:17I'm

00:59:17not

00:59:18planning on

00:59:18you're

00:59:18too soft

00:59:19you're too

00:59:19soft

00:59:20do you think

00:59:22finally

00:59:23the reason

00:59:24he's getting

00:59:24a bit of

00:59:25stick as

00:59:26well is

00:59:27because he's

00:59:28seen as

00:59:28Maranakis

00:59:28as man

00:59:29do you know

00:59:30what chappers

00:59:30I don't

00:59:31have the

00:59:31rhino hide

00:59:32of Chris

00:59:33so I don't

00:59:33like sitting

00:59:34around and

00:59:35saying that

00:59:35fan bases

00:59:35are entitled

00:59:36but I do

00:59:37think and this

00:59:38isn't just

00:59:38Forrest I do

00:59:39think we've

00:59:39thought everyone

00:59:40has lost

00:59:40their minds

00:59:41a little bit

00:59:41in terms of

00:59:42relative

00:59:42success

00:59:43so Ange

00:59:45Postetodloo

00:59:45won the

00:59:46Europa League

00:59:47with Tottenham

00:59:47and as part

00:59:48of winning

00:59:48the Europa League

00:59:49they were

00:59:49kind of

00:59:50rubbish in

00:59:50the Premier

00:59:50League

00:59:50he's won

00:59:52titles with

00:59:52Celtic

00:59:53he's managed

00:59:54Australia

00:59:54you know

00:59:54he's got

00:59:55a really

00:59:55good CV

00:59:55and I think

00:59:57there's a lot

00:59:57of Forrest fans

00:59:58will be like

00:59:58well that

00:59:59fella didn't

00:59:59work out for

01:00:00Spurs so he

01:00:00shouldn't be

01:00:00coaching Nottingham

01:00:01Forrest and

01:00:02that to me

01:00:03just completely

01:00:03misreads where

01:00:04everybody stands

01:00:04in the hierarchy

01:00:05to be honest

01:00:06I think there is

01:00:06a degree of

01:00:07entitlement I

01:00:07don't think it's

01:00:07just Forrest fans

01:00:08I think you see

01:00:09it a lot with

01:00:10managers who

01:00:11will do

01:00:12perfectly well

01:00:13at sort of

01:00:13mid-sized clubs

01:00:14and then go to

01:00:15a slightly larger

01:00:16mid-sized club

01:00:17and the fans of

01:00:17that mid-sized club

01:00:18will be like

01:00:18well this isn't

01:00:20good enough for

01:00:20us we should

01:00:21be aiming higher

01:00:21and I'm not

01:00:22quite sure it

01:00:22works like that

01:00:23Can I just say

01:00:25it didn't work

01:00:25out with Spurs

01:00:26can I just say

01:00:27in 50 years

01:00:29time Spurs fans

01:00:31will look back

01:00:32and remember

01:00:33Poster Coglu for

01:00:34winning a Europa

01:00:34League not

01:00:35finishing 17th in

01:00:36the Premier League

01:00:37They might remember

01:00:39both Chris

01:00:39mnc at bbc.co.uk

01:00:4485058

01:00:46at 5 Live Sport

01:00:48in the next hour

01:00:50we'll talk Rangers

01:00:51and what next

01:00:52for them after

01:00:53they sack Russell

01:00:54Martin

01:00:54we'll do some

01:00:55positive stuff

01:00:56with Coventry

01:00:57who can't stop

01:00:57scoring under

01:00:58Frank Lampard

01:00:59and we'll talk

01:01:00England as well

01:01:00with Nico O'Reilly

01:01:01receiving his first

01:01:02England call-up

01:01:03Come on you can't

01:01:08not remember what

01:01:09that is

01:01:09does it remind you

01:01:10of anything

01:01:11that's your new

01:01:13microphone

01:01:13for your show

01:01:14do you know

01:01:15the only reason

01:01:15I bought it

01:01:15I've seen it

01:01:16and the only reason

01:01:18I bought it

01:01:18was to smash it up

01:01:19from Pitch the Podcast

01:01:22join me

01:01:23Wayne Rooney

01:01:23on the Wayne Rooney

01:01:24show

01:01:25Saul Campbell

01:01:25didn't speak to me

01:01:26for over 6 months

01:01:27we'd meet up

01:01:28with England

01:01:29and Saul still

01:01:30wouldn't speak to

01:01:31were you happy

01:01:31about that though

01:01:32sometimes I was

01:01:34with Saul

01:01:34we spoke about

01:01:35the number 18

01:01:35chair

01:01:36I think he said

01:01:36there was 8

01:01:37and 18 available

01:01:38and he remembers

01:01:39poor gas

01:01:39going

01:01:39wearing it

01:01:40then myself

01:01:40and then unfortunately

01:01:41Phil Neville took it

01:01:42we had Cleverson

01:01:44apparently he couldn't

01:01:45speak English

01:01:45so we played

01:01:46a pre-season friendly

01:01:48in Scotland

01:01:48and me

01:01:50Cleverson

01:01:50and Rio

01:01:51were coming back

01:01:51in the car

01:01:52just the three of us

01:01:54well he had a couple

01:01:55of bottles of beer

01:01:56and then started

01:01:57speaking perfect English

01:01:58and we were like

01:01:58what is going on

01:01:59here

01:01:59he didn't know

01:01:59he spoke English

01:02:00join me

01:02:01Wayne Rooney

01:02:01Kelly Summers

01:02:02and Kay Caird

01:02:03on the Wayne Rooney Show

01:02:04Go

01:02:17and

01:02:17you

01:02:18and

01:02:19you

01:02:19and

01:02:23you

01:02:28and

01:02:29you

01:02:30you

01:02:31this is five live sports the monday night club with mark chapman listen on bbc sounds

01:02:44uh conor cody chris sutton rory smith are with us for the monday night club so it's forest before

01:02:51the news rangers after the news the club said after they sacked russell martin after a one-all

01:02:56draw away to falkirk chris while all transition periods require some time results haven't met

01:03:03expectations so he had 17 games 123 days yeah and you know i normally think you know i would i would

01:03:15always think 17 games not enough managers need time to to build and get their identity uh across

01:03:23and their principles across but um the team the team weren't improving and and the fans a lot of

01:03:30them didn't want him from day one i think that was really unfortunate for him and then it's about

01:03:34getting results uh quickly uh and and seeing uh more positive performances on the field they recruited a

01:03:43lot of players barely any of the players they've recruited have come good and they were a total

01:03:50mess but the way it all transpired i've got us at falkirk yesterday you know i mean that was that

01:03:56was pretty ugly at the end of the game with the uh with you know some of the rangers fans um sort of

01:04:02surrounding the rangers bus so the players couldn't get up on it i don't know whether you saw it and

01:04:07then russell martin having to be sort of escorted out of the uh out of the ground um i mean that you

01:04:13know and that was the feeling towards him um for you know a long long time now and he's only been in the

01:04:20job what 100 and 123 days it was i think something like that um but they just weren't having him and

01:04:27um you know results weren't good enough expectation uh is so high up there and uh you know it's been a

01:04:35a really disastrous spell for russell and rangers let's go right back to the start with chris mccoughlin

01:04:40bbc scotland's sports news correspondent evening chris why why was he on the back foot

01:04:46from the moment he was appointed uh hi guys it's a good question and i think probably the answer is

01:04:55that the rangers fans from the start wanted a bigger name um and i think as i said at the time

01:05:02because of that um the rangers fans knew that he had to hit the ground running um for them for him to

01:05:11try and persuade those rangers fans and there was a sizable chunk of rangers fans who didn't fancy

01:05:18russell martin from the start for him to change their mind he had to be exceptional very quickly

01:05:25um and it just didn't happen um rangers as chris knows and as we all know the rangers fans have huge

01:05:35expectations for the past 14 years they've watched what celtic um pretty much clean up in scottish

01:05:43football and they are sick of it and they got this new consortium this american consortium led by

01:05:49andrew cavernan and andrew cavernan and and there was such a feel-good factor

01:05:54and there was such a feel-good factor

01:05:58and there was such a feel-good factor

01:06:02and there was such a feel-good factor

01:06:06and there was such a feel-good factor

01:06:08and there was such a feel-good factor

01:06:10and there was such a feel-good factor

01:06:12and there was such a feel-good factor

01:06:14and there was such a feel-good factor

01:06:16and there was such a feel-good factor

01:06:18and there was such a feel-good factor

Liverpool lose again, Martin sacked and Ange next Monday Night Club Livestream

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