- 2 hours ago
David Halbert, the billionaire founder of Caris Life Sciences, opens up about his high-stakes career and his ultimate passion project: Halbert National Golf Course. Halbert, who believes his AI genomics company will be a "multi-trillion dollar company" focused on extending life, discusses how he convinced himself to spend "$50 million plus" to transform hay fields into a private course. Learn why he gave legendary course designer Tom Fazio a "no budget" mandate and why the goal is to make Halbert National the number one Fazio course and the number one course in Texas.
00:00 David Dean Halbert's Ultimate Hobby: Why He Built a Golf Course
02:25 Partnering with Golf Legend Tom Fazio
09:41 Caris Life Sciences And The Future Of Personalized Medicine
19:33 The Company's Cardinal 'Mom Rule'
25:41 The Multi-Trillion Dollar Future Of Halbert's Company
Read the full story on Forbes: https://www.forbes.com/sites/christopherhelman/2025/10/04/this-billionaire-built-a-50-million-golf-course-so-his-wife-had-a-place-to-swing-like-an-idiot/
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00:00 David Dean Halbert's Ultimate Hobby: Why He Built a Golf Course
02:25 Partnering with Golf Legend Tom Fazio
09:41 Caris Life Sciences And The Future Of Personalized Medicine
19:33 The Company's Cardinal 'Mom Rule'
25:41 The Multi-Trillion Dollar Future Of Halbert's Company
Read the full story on Forbes: https://www.forbes.com/sites/christopherhelman/2025/10/04/this-billionaire-built-a-50-million-golf-course-so-his-wife-had-a-place-to-swing-like-an-idiot/
Subscribe to FORBES: https://www.youtube.com/user/Forbes?sub_confirmation=1
Fuel your success with Forbes. Gain unlimited access to premium journalism, including breaking news, groundbreaking in-depth reported stories, daily digests and more. Plus, members get a front-row seat at members-only events with leading thinkers and doers, access to premium video that can help you get ahead, an ad-light experience, early access to select products including NFT drops and more:
https://account.forbes.com/membership/?utm_source=youtube&utm_medium=display&utm_campaign=growth_non-sub_paid_subscribe_ytdescript
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Forbes covers the intersection of entrepreneurship, wealth, technology, business and lifestyle with a focus on people and success.
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LifestyleTranscript
00:00Entrepreneurs don't need education, they just need opportunity and capital.
00:12Hi, I'm Chris Hellman. I'm a senior editor at Forbes magazine.
00:15I'm here today with David Halpert.
00:17We're visiting his golf course, Halpert National, here at Granbury, Texas.
00:22We're about how many miles southwest of Fort Worth would you say we are, David?
00:28Oh, we're 60 from DFW Airport.
00:30Okay, so we're in North Texas. It's green right now.
00:34We got lots of rain on the course this year, so we're looking forward to seeing your brand new course.
00:41Why did you want to build your own golf course, David?
00:45You know, it was not something that I really spent that much time thinking about.
00:50We built this lake house in 2004, 3 and 4, and my wife wanted to buy the property across the lake.
01:00We bought it, and she said, wouldn't it be great if I had a course there so I could play without anybody watching me?
01:08Okay.
01:09Because she always feels pressure to pick up and move on.
01:12And so it was kind of been in our mind for a while, and some of my friends started naming it, you know, Halpert National.
01:18And they call it our lake house, Camp David, because we used to have a big 4th of July party here.
01:24And so it was in our mind as maybe a par 3 course.
01:27Okay.
01:28So you've had, you're not an overnight success in business.
01:33About 20 years ago now, you sold your first public company, and that made you some money.
01:39And then just recently, you've had the IPO of Keras Life Sciences, which has been, I believe, one of the most successful IPOs this year.
01:48Your market capitalization is already $10.3 billion, so congratulations for that.
01:54Is this the kind of thing that you expected to do?
01:58I mean, you've got a public company you're running.
02:01Do you have time to focus on this golf course?
02:04How do you find time for this?
02:06Well, it's sort of my only hobby, if you will.
02:10And I've always loved to play golf.
02:13I've played all over the world.
02:14It's been fun.
02:15But the idea of actually building one came about more from a friend of mine,
02:22is on a board with Tom Fazio.
02:24Okay.
02:25This is a Tom Fazio design course.
02:27So, you know, and I'm a member of four different Fazio clubs.
02:33And I love Tom, and he helped build Dallas National, which was the first time I met him.
02:38And I thought he's the greatest designer in the history of man.
02:42I mean, he's got 47 of the top 200 or Fazio courses.
02:47The next guy is down like 18, and he's been dead for 80 years.
02:51So, he's definitely the best designer.
02:55And so, I asked him to ask Tom if he would be willing to do it, because Tom selects his own clients.
03:01And it was really more seasonality.
03:07I learned a lot about seasonality, building the course, about when you can plant trees, when you can't plant trees,
03:13when you can sod, when you can sprig, when you can't sprig, and all that.
03:18But this was more the season of my life, where I was 67 years old, Tom was 77.
03:24And it literally was, you know, if I'm going to do it, I've got to do it now.
03:28Okay.
03:29And I said, Tom, we've got to make it number one.
03:33And everybody kind of bought into the idea that we make it number one, the number one Fazio course, and number one in Texas.
03:42You say this is a season of your life, but this is the kind of thing that a person can't do unless they've achieved some success before that season.
03:51So you take us back to maybe the early 2000s, when you first acquired this land.
03:58And you thought, you know, you've got this lake here that we're sitting next to, and you can see the course across the lake.
04:04But back then it was just hay fields.
04:07Is that right?
04:08That's right.
04:09It was hay fields.
04:10And we had some cattle running there.
04:12We had an ag exemption.
04:14Okay.
04:15And so somehow that turned into, let me spend $50 million plus on a golf course.
04:22I mean, walk me through how you convinced yourself that that was the passion that you wanted to put your money towards.
04:30Well, I love golf.
04:32I love golf.
04:34I love playing golf.
04:35My game is deteriorating, unfortunately.
04:38So it's not the best time to be playing that much.
04:41But I had a lot of ideas about what I wanted to try to do.
04:45We did 15 different routing plans.
04:47And I ended up being pretty perfect in a way.
04:53Two fives on each nine, two threes on each nine.
04:57Nine returns to, we don't have a clubhouse, but to our lodge or porch we have right now.
05:04And so when you first talked to Tom Fazio about this land here, was he open to the idea?
05:11Is this the kind of thing where you need to convince him to work with you?
05:17I did.
05:18I did.
05:19I said, well, Tom, I'll send the plane out and pick you up and come on out and let's look at the land.
05:24And he did.
05:25And we got to be friends.
05:27And he used to come and spend the night, I think 11 or 12 times here.
05:33We make dinner for him and his sons have all come here as well.
05:38So you guys were very involved together in this process.
05:42Oh, absolutely.
05:43It's not just Tom Fazio going off into his citadel and coming back with the plan.
05:48It's kind of a give and take.
05:50Oh, absolutely.
05:51That's one of the things people really like about Tom that certain other designers they don't like about.
05:56Tom is very open.
05:58He's very open to input from different people.
06:00A lot of people were involved.
06:02A lot of his people were involved.
06:04Our builder, the Integrity Golf, Jade Work, there was involved in his shaper, Jason, who actually, the shaper is the guy that runs the bulldozer.
06:17Okay.
06:18And knows exactly the kind of shape.
06:20And you'll see it when you get over there.
06:21It's beautifully shaped.
06:22So would they let you get on the bulldozer and move any dirt?
06:26They would have let me, but I didn't want to.
06:28Leave it to the experts.
06:29So what advice would you give to other Forbes 400 members who might be thinking of perhaps building their own golf course?
06:38I mean, this is not the first time that a person of your means has crafted their own course.
06:44Ted Turner has one.
06:46Michael Jordan built his own course.
06:48I think Larry Ellison had one that perhaps, Porcupine Creek, if I'm not mistaken.
06:53Our director of agronomy was the superintendent of Porcupine Creek, whatever, Ellison's place.
07:03So were you inspired by those guys?
07:06And what would you tell other folks who might be thinking of embarking on this adventure?
07:12You know, I would say if you're going to take the time to do it, I mean, you should do it right.
07:17You should.
07:18It was the most fun thing I think I've ever done.
07:21Really?
07:22Was to build that course.
07:24So compared to all of the other escapades, adventures that you could go on, given the smorgasbord of opportunities in front of you, this is something that you would do again given the chance?
07:38Well, I don't know about that.
07:40It was kind of a one in a lifetime kind of thing for me.
07:43I mean, Tom obviously does it all the time.
07:45I don't think I could do that.
07:48It was a very passionate thing for me.
07:51So, I mean, every time Tom was here, we walked the whole course.
07:55Oh, that's great.
07:56And he walks.
07:57He doesn't ride.
07:58In fact, he had open heart surgery in the middle of the project.
08:01Wow.
08:02And would still come out here and walk.
08:05He out walks me like I'm a kid.
08:09Very.
08:10This is a private course.
08:11You know, this is just for your family.
08:14It's a shame though if no one gets to play something so beautiful.
08:18What's your long term objective?
08:21What are you thinking in terms of opening this up to other players?
08:25Well, I certainly intend to have it played.
08:27You know, I wouldn't build the course.
08:29It's just, it's very new.
08:32So this is really the first full summer of Grow In that we're just finishing now.
08:37And the native is very slow growing.
08:41It's 12 to 18 months for it to come in.
08:44So when people come, I'd like for it to, you know, be at its best.
08:50Also the structures, we only have one structure over there now.
08:54We're building a lodge and a party barn and four cabins and a porch.
09:02Okay.
09:03So we have, there's no clubhouse, there's no clubs.
09:06So we have.
09:07It's not like you're going to be doing weddings out there like some people do.
09:10Hopefully my granddaughter will do a wedding out there.
09:12Oh, good, good, good.
09:13She's 19 and sophomore at UT.
09:16And so I told her, you know, I think the party barn is going to be the perfect spot for your wedding.
09:21Excellent, excellent.
09:22And so you're a member of Dallas National, of course.
09:25So are such players as Scotty Scheffler and Jordan Spieth.
09:30Do you think they might get invites to come out here at some point?
09:34All of the touring pros that are touring pro members at Dallas National are invited.
09:39Really?
09:40Okay, cool.
09:41Tell us a little bit here about what Karis Life Sciences does.
09:45I understand that you're working on solving all of humanity's chronic diseases by using AI to analyze our genomes and sort out what kind of ailments our personal makeup might make us susceptible to.
10:03So how are you going to solve all those problems for us?
10:06That's a good question.
10:07Yeah.
10:08But the idea was I was fortunate enough to have sold my company at the age of 48.
10:15What was that one called?
10:16Your first company?
10:17Advanced PCS.
10:18Yes.
10:19And you sold that to who now?
10:20Caremark.
10:21Yes.
10:22And that was a huge success and a big payday for you.
10:26It was a $7.5 billion deal.
10:28And it was a startup.
10:30Yes.
10:31So from a raw startup to Fortune 250 and then sold to $7.5 billion.
10:38We reported 38 consecutive record EPS quarters.
10:43Never missed, never revised downward, beat over 80% of the time when we were public, grew our EPS 85% compounded.
10:50So after that, some people might have said, I've already achieved everything I need to in life.
10:54I'm just going to go golf.
10:55But you decided that you needed to start a new business.
10:59Why was that?
11:01Well, I'm kind of an analytical person.
11:06And so I sat down with some of my partners and kind of whiteboarded what would life be like if you could make it what you wanted.
11:15And it literally started with, you know, more of what I want and less of what I don't.
11:20And so then I realized that it was much easier to say what you don't want than what you do want.
11:27Because you start out with love and happiness and, you know, fun and, you know, but that's not necessarily consistent with achievements, you know, and more accomplishments, which I wanted to do.
11:41So, but I knew I didn't want to be bitten by a shark.
11:44And I knew I didn't want to be kidnapped.
11:45Okay.
11:46I knew I didn't want to be incarcerated.
11:48I knew I didn't want to be confined.
11:50And so I came up with these seven rules.
11:52And I knew I didn't want to be sued by a family member, among other things.
11:57But I had some ideas.
11:59So I started four companies.
12:01And the big one was, what if we could make personalized medicine a reality for mankind?
12:09Yes.
12:10So no business plan.
12:12It was always just about the patient, which came from the first outside investor we had was J.H. Whitney.
12:20Okay.
12:21Founder of J.H. Whitney was Benno Schmidt.
12:23And Benno was chairman of Memorial Sloan Kettering.
12:26And he was the first czar for the war on cancer appointed by Richard Nixon in 1972.
12:33He was chairman of Vertex, chairman of Jennings Institute.
12:36And he said to me, David, we have a policy at J.H. Whitney.
12:39We would never want to invest.
12:41We will never invest in a for-profit healthcare provider.
12:44I said, Benno, that's a problem.
12:47Because you're a venture capitalist.
12:48I'm not true.
12:49My dad is a general surgeon.
12:50Yeah.
12:51So he's a for-profit healthcare provider.
12:53Why is that?
12:54He said we would never want to be in a position to potentially compromise patient care for-profit.
12:59Okay.
13:00So not-for-profit is the only way to go in healthcare.
13:03I mean, that's just not right.
13:05I've been dealing with a lot of Blue Cross Blue Shield plans, a lot of not-for-profits, and they were exceptionally dysfunctional.
13:11And so the idea was, what if I had a company that was only focused on improving the quality of life and extending life?
13:20That's it.
13:21Of the patient.
13:22And there was no real, you know, business plan.
13:26And so-
13:28No way to make money.
13:29Let's start this business anyway.
13:30Well, I had the theory that if I actually did extend life for a lot of people, I'd figure out a way to pay me.
13:36Right?
13:37Yes.
13:38But we didn't have it ahead of time.
13:39It was not like we were going to do this and then they're going to pay us.
13:42And so somewhere along the way, we developed what we call the Trojan horse strategy, which is basically do one thing and get paid for while you're actually working on something else.
13:53So I didn't learn.
13:55I didn't know anything about nucleic acids or amino acids or proteins or DNA or RNA or whatever.
14:02So I had to learn a lot.
14:04And I didn't plan on doing that because I thought I could just hire scientists.
14:07You're not a doctor.
14:08You don't have a PhD or anything.
14:09Not a doctor.
14:10I have an honorary doctor.
14:11But I didn't plan on doing it.
14:14I thought I could hire scientists to do it.
14:16And I went through three CEOs and three CSOs in a relatively short period of time.
14:21So I acted as the CSO for about two years and designed all the experiments.
14:27And it was a great experience.
14:31And this was all in DNA analysis and genomics?
14:36Well, we found a business where we could interrogate cancer cells from a biopsy, molecularly, and determine which therapy would work and which therapy would not work.
14:53And we were building a database over time.
14:56Larger and larger.
14:57We were learning more.
14:58And we were trying different types of experiments.
15:00We started out with protein analysis with IHCs.
15:04And then we moved into Next Generation Sequencing and came out in 2011.
15:09We started this company in 2008.
15:11Okay.
15:12And then Next Generation Sequencing then opened up all kinds of opportunity for us.
15:17And so we had a limited panel.
15:22We ran some experiments and learned that we could, well, we have a product that we call Full First.
15:32And it's for late stage colon cancer patients, should you use Full First or Full Fury first because you're going to get both of them.
15:42They're generic chemos.
15:44So we looked at our database and we discovered a 67 gene signature, DNA only.
15:53And when we directed the therapy correctly, it more than doubled overall survival for the patient.
16:04And you had all of this data because doctors are sending you blood samples and tissue samples from thousands, hundreds of thousands of patients that you have samples from?
16:17Yes.
16:18Is that right?
16:19Yes.
16:20We have 600,000 in total.
16:21We have almost 600,000 now with whole genome, whole genome, I'm sorry, whole exome and whole transcriptome.
16:28And those are thousands of genes.
16:30That's every gene, 22,000 genes.
16:33So every coding gene, both DNA and mRNA.
16:37And we also have all the treatment data and the outcomes data for all those patients.
16:41How confident are you that over the next five to 10 years by applying new AI technologies to all of this data, all these genomes, how confident are you that you'll be able to figure out how to cure all these chronic diseases?
16:59Is this obviously going to work as far as you're concerned?
17:03It definitely works.
17:04It definitely works.
17:06But that's how we started with cancer, interrogating cancer.
17:10And then over time, we started running whole exome and whole transcriptome, so every coding gene.
17:16And then we started looking at other disease states, especially cardiovascular.
17:22Okay.
17:23Because there's a particular, I can't pronounce it, but we call them CHIPS, that we could isolate and interrogate for the removal from blood for cancer patients.
17:39But CHIPS is also tied directly to cardiovascular disease and heart attack.
17:46So we started looking at CHIPS as it related to cardiovascular.
17:49And basically to simplify it, what we could do is if we could get pristine samples of someone, let's say we're about to launch a blood test for breast cancer.
18:02So we get, in this particular case, we got 700 women with breast cancer and 3,300 that didn't have breast cancer.
18:13We run all the genes and then we have, we put it in the cloud.
18:19And then we have an AI that comes in and says, these features are in this group and they're not in this group.
18:26And these features are in this group and they're not in that group.
18:30And then we have a different AI called Dean.
18:34And Dean comes in and then scores each one of the features and then puts together a signature from those features that maximizes the performance if you're calling breast cancer or not calling breast cancer.
18:49Okay.
18:50So now the next step that we learned was, now we have this signature and it's going to have a target.
18:58And so we find that target and then we can find a pathogenic mutation or perhaps not even a pathogenic mutation, a mutation that's tied to that particular target.
19:12Okay.
19:13We can then design a specific immunotherapy personalized to that particular target.
19:21You can then make it and then inject it just like a COVID virus vaccine.
19:28And it stimulates your immune system to go kill it.
19:32Okay.
19:33You started off saying that the idea was to create a company that is not a for profit medical company.
19:41Well, we weren't saying we're going to, we're not going to make profit.
19:44We're not going to do anything for profit.
19:46We would never compromise patient care.
19:47So we developed what we call the mom rule.
19:49I see.
19:50Okay.
19:51So we treat every patient as if they're your mom.
19:52My mom died of multiple myeloma in 03.
19:56And so it became very personal for me and I would never compromise patient care.
20:00But even more than that, I would have to be doing it much better than everybody else.
20:05If you talk to someone that's in our business, they would say, oh,
20:09Harvard doesn't know what he's doing because he's running every gene.
20:12He's wasting money.
20:13He doesn't need all those genes.
20:15Well, when I looked at that 67 gene panel that more than doubled overall survival.
20:19Yeah.
20:20There were only 25 of those that were even on a panel of our competitors.
20:24Oh, they don't even know what they don't know.
20:27No, they weren't even on the panel.
20:29So even if they had known the signature, they couldn't have run it.
20:32And so the same is true.
20:33We call them AI insights.
20:34Now we spit out a new AI insight, but once a month, we just did one for lung.
20:41We just do one for breast.
20:42We just went for ovarian cancer.
20:44And in many cases, they're doubling overall survival by knowing which drug to use and which one not to use.
20:50And these signatures that we're using could not be run by anyone else because the markers we're using are not on their panel.
20:59I see.
21:00This is incredible.
21:02I can't wait to see where Karis goes from here.
21:04But we have to bring this back to golf because, you know, that's why we're here.
21:07How do you, in your mind, see the connections between healthcare and golf?
21:15Is there any similarities to you in how you approach these different areas?
21:20Or is it totally separate?
21:22I've never connected the two, but I must say I saw a commercial today.
21:27I was watching CNBC.
21:29Our commercial came on.
21:31And another commercial came on.
21:33I think it was a city commercial.
21:35And they said, you know, if you look at tennis, tennis is on the same court, pickleball on the same court.
21:40But golf, every hole is different.
21:43Every shot is different.
21:45Every shot's got to be customized for that particular hole.
21:48So I'd say in that regard, there is some similarity.
21:51But I only saw that today.
21:53Can you tell us about how much it costs to put something like this together or to maintain?
22:00Is this, you know, millions of dollars a year to keep up?
22:05Probably so, right?
22:06Yeah.
22:07Is it more than you thought it would be?
22:09Hmm.
22:12It is a little bit right now, but we're still growing in.
22:15Right.
22:16I think once we're growing in by next summer, it'll be about where I thought it was.
22:19It's about the same as our flight crew.
22:22Hmm.
22:23When you start a project like this, did you have a budget in mind?
22:27Or was this a thing where, you know, I just, I want it to be the biggest and the best.
22:32And I know that's going to be expensive.
22:34And I'm, I don't know what the end is going to be yet, but let's, let's do it.
22:39I mean.
22:40No, no.
22:41I think that was one of the things that was attractive to Tom.
22:44Because I said, Tom, you're always working for a membership, a membership committee or discovery land.
22:49And there's a real estate development, you know, and you can't really build what you want.
22:53This, I'll have no budget.
22:56So it's a no budget course.
22:59You can spend as much as you want and do whatever you want on it.
23:04And you can make it hard because you can't make courses too hard if it's a real estate development or membership.
23:11Right.
23:12And it took him a long time to buy into that.
23:16He actually said to me one time, he said, if you make this course hard for Scotty Scheffler, no one else is going to be able to play it.
23:22That's what I'm talking about.
23:23I'm not trying to make it hard for Scotty Scheffler.
23:25You're the one that said that.
23:27And so then after the BMW last year, I picked him up at the airport.
23:34He said, did you see that BMW?
23:37It was Hovland and Scheffler and Hovland and Scheffler.
23:40And did you see that bunker they were flying?
23:42That bunker was 320.
23:44They are not going to do that to this course.
23:46I'm making this course 7777.
23:49And I want you to put it in the clubhouse.
23:517777.
23:52And what does that denote?
23:547777 yards.
23:57Okay.
23:58Wow.
23:59And we haven't been able to get that yet.
24:02I'm putting in seven new tees right now.
24:05To get that extra length.
24:06Well, two of them for extra length.
24:09I'm making a 260 par 3 and I'm making a 620 par 5.
24:15Okay.
24:16That'll add probably 150.
24:18We're 7500 right now.
24:20So we have a 7650.
24:22You know, it strikes me that this is a lot like the way an artist would approach a project,
24:28a sculpture or a painting.
24:31And artists often have a hard time knowing when a work is finished, completed.
24:38When are you going to know that you finally achieved the vision that you had in mind for Halbert National?
24:45Well, I think we've achieved the vision already in terms of being finished.
24:50That'll be probably in my coffin.
24:56Hopefully many, many years from now.
24:58I'm definitely not finished.
24:59I've got all kinds of ideas.
25:00I'm putting walking trails on it.
25:01Oh, cool.
25:02I just put in a short course.
25:03Okay.
25:04I'm putting in some trellis and gazebos on the walking course.
25:10I stocked three of the lakes with Texas bass.
25:14I stocked the big lake with Florida genetically modified bass.
25:18Wow.
25:19They get up to 18 pounds.
25:20Okay.
25:21And I'm putting a dock out there.
25:23I'm putting in a bait shop.
25:24We have walking trails.
25:25We wouldn't normally have walking trails on a golf course.
25:28Mm-hmm.
25:29But we encourage people to come out.
25:30I want all my grandkids to come out here.
25:33Good.
25:34And I want something for them to do that, you know, they can enjoy.
25:37We may put a playground in.
25:39Fun.
25:40You know, as well.
25:41What else do we need to know about your company and the course and how you got to this point?
25:48Maybe what advice might you have for other entrepreneurs who see what you've accomplished and they want to kind of follow in your footsteps or be inspired by you?
26:01What would you say to that next generation of people who want both a publicly traded company and their own golf course?
26:07Well, one thing I would say about our company is that we're going to be a multi-trillion dollar company.
26:14There's like, unless we do something really stupid.
26:19Because there's no one else working on this.
26:21Okay.
26:22In the world.
26:23And we are very close to launching these products with treatments.
26:28In terms of advice, I don't know what kind of advice.
26:31I mean, I've worked with a lot of people, challenging people.
26:39But they may not be the right DNA for entrepreneurship.
26:48It's not like you went to one of those fancy schools and, you know, got into business that way.
26:53I went to Abilene Christian.
26:54Yes.
26:55Okay.
26:56So tell me how that was a benefit for you.
26:59School?
27:00Yeah.
27:01It wasn't.
27:02It wasn't.
27:03No.
27:04No, it wasn't.
27:05But you've made the most of it because you had your own internal drive.
27:08Well, I think about it for a second.
27:10Larry Ellison didn't even get his GED.
27:12Mm-hmm.
27:13He dropped out of high school.
27:14Good.
27:15You know, jobs out of high school.
27:16Yeah.
27:17Gates.
27:18I mean, Harvard.
27:19College, freshman year.
27:20Dell, freshman year, drops out.
27:23Entrepreneurs don't need education.
27:25They just need opportunity and capital.
27:27And there's plenty of that these days, for now?
27:30Well, there certainly is for us.
27:32I mean, it was a time when no one would put money in it.
27:35And I hired J.P. Morgan to help find that side of investors.
27:38Didn't have a single, 28 meetings.
27:41Didn't have a single bite.
27:42So I put the first five to six hundred million in of my own money.
27:47Which is why I still own 44% of the company, you know, post IPO, which is unusual for a founder.
27:54It is.
27:55Yeah.
27:56But I didn't have that much money when I sold.
27:58ADVP was my symbol in advance.
28:01So I had to sell the other three companies to get enough money to put it in.
28:06So the three other companies I started, I sold for a collective 1.2 billion with a weighted 7x return on that money, which was mostly mine.
28:17So that was out of your private equity business that you created?
28:20That's right.
28:21I was able to sell the companies to fund it.
28:23And then we were counting on this, you know, if we do enough good, people are going to pay us.
28:29And that ended up being correct.
28:32Very nice.
28:33All right.
28:34For your next golf course, where is that going to be?
28:37There won't be another one.
28:39There won't be another one.
28:41But the other thing I didn't know, of course, I mean, it was Hayfields over there.
28:44Yeah.
28:45I had no idea if the land was going to be that great.
28:48What does it need to be?
28:50I read a book on Tom Fazio one time and he said, I don't design golf courses. God makes golf courses.
28:56But this was pre-Shadow Creek.
28:59That all changed after Shadow Creek because, you know, it's in the middle of the desert.
29:02So he brought all of that in.
29:04And now he's being criticized for not going with the natural terrain.
29:08So we walked the land for the first time.
29:11I said, Tom, I don't know.
29:13It's just a bunch of red clay out here in fields.
29:16He says, no, you don't know, David.
29:18I'm going to take a bulldozer right here in this spot.
29:21I'm going to go down 35 feet.
29:23I'm going to push that dirt up here.
29:25I'm going to have a 60-foot drop from right here to here.
29:28I'm going to make a lake right here on Billy Street.
29:31So he, of course, had done it his whole life and I had never done it.
29:36So one thing I did learn is you can do a lot moving dirt.
29:41It's quite a property.
29:43So thanks for sharing it with us.
29:45Thanks for your time today, sir.
29:47All right.
29:48This is appreciate you coming.
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