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In this candid conversation with Assistant Managing Editor Steven Bertoni, Daryl-Ann Denner chronicles her incredible rise from blogger to social media prominence to launching her wildly successful basics company, nuuds. But it wasn't always an easy path. Daryl-Ann opens up about navigating being "cancelled," and what it took to come out the other side stronger.

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Transcript
00:00:00While I'm not surprised that it's a $100 million business today, that wasn't like, it was a
00:00:05passion, it started as my passion project, did not start for me to be like, how can I
00:00:09create $100 million?
00:00:10That's who has not.
00:00:14Hey everybody, welcome to the Forbes Top Creator Show.
00:00:17I'm Forbes editor, Steve Bertoni.
00:00:19Today, we have a guest with more than 2 million followers on Instagram and across social media.
00:00:24She also has her own multi-million dollar clothing brand, which sells out in seconds whenever
00:00:31she drops it.
00:00:32Everyone, welcome Daryl and Denner.
00:00:35Hi, I'm so excited to be here.
00:00:36I can't wait to chat with you.
00:00:37Welcome to the show.
00:00:38I can't wait.
00:00:38Honored to be here.
00:00:39Thanks for having me.
00:00:40We're going to talk about a lot of stuff, but quick for my audience, if someone is meeting
00:00:43you for the first time, what is the one piece of content they need to check out to get you?
00:00:48So I am a mom.
00:00:50I think I grew up in this like Instagram stories becoming a vlog type of sensation as a creator.
00:00:58And so I think for me, if you watch Instagram stories, you'll get a good vibe of still like
00:01:02who I am, how I live, like very much.
00:01:05I want to feel, I want to connect with people like I'm their friend.
00:01:07Like they met me on the street, they're FaceTiming me every day.
00:01:10And so that's kind of how I show up online every single day.
00:01:12And I think that that's the best way you could get to know me as fast as you could.
00:01:15Well, there's a lot of moms, millions of moms on social media.
00:01:17What do you think about you and your brand stands out?
00:01:21I think that I'm very intentional about caring about the person on the other side.
00:01:25I don't think, I never went into creating content to make money.
00:01:31That being said, I didn't go into it to make it small.
00:01:33I went into it.
00:01:34I mean, my mentality is never like, let's see if we can make something small.
00:01:37It's always, let's see how big we can make something.
00:01:40But at the end of the day, I really care about the woman on the other side that's watching.
00:01:43I feel like even you talked about nudes, we can get there.
00:01:46But like, even with our customer service team on our clothing company, I'm like, treat
00:01:50her like she's my sister.
00:01:51Each girl isn't just like a number to me.
00:01:53It's not a 2 million number.
00:01:55I see one every single time.
00:01:56And so I feel like I'm connecting with one person face-to-face almost every single day,
00:02:01as wild as that sounds.
00:02:02Because yes, it's my phone.
00:02:03But I've really put the girl on the receiving end above everything, above money, above numbers,
00:02:10above anything.
00:02:10And I think that that's what's resonated and why it's been successful.
00:02:14How did this all get started?
00:02:15Because I did some background reading on you, and you were a former chemistry teacher.
00:02:20Wild, yes.
00:02:20And then you started social media.
00:02:23I guess it was called vlogging back in the day, 2015, which is 10 years ago, which isn't
00:02:27that long.
00:02:28But in social media terms, that is like archaic.
00:02:31And now bring me to your brand and nudes.
00:02:34How did you start this wild social media journey?
00:02:38OK, so like you said, I mean, it's what?
00:02:4010 years ago feels archaic.
00:02:42The amount of transformation and change in the past 10 years, you know.
00:02:45I mean, it looks completely different than when I started.
00:02:47I started blogging as a creative outlet.
00:02:50Again, never went into it to be, I don't think I ever go into anything to be small.
00:02:54I think it really matters what your intention is, like what you set out to do from day one.
00:02:58And so I started a blog.
00:03:01It was all about clothes as an outlet from being a chemistry teacher, like you said.
00:03:05Yeah, there you go.
00:03:05Wild.
00:03:05What was the blog called?
00:03:06Something Beautiful, which we can totally connect that.
00:03:09And I kind of like created this ecosystem online that was separate from my personal
00:03:14life, kind of.
00:03:16I mean, I'm sure you've heard this a million times, but kind of to make it so that I didn't
00:03:19get embarrassed with those people that the people you're most embarrassed to find out
00:03:23about it are the people who know you the best.
00:03:25Yeah, like your friends ripping out.
00:03:27Yeah, so I think having this ecosystem online that was called Something Beautiful, my whole
00:03:33goal and core was to like, okay, let me show style so that other girls can feel beautiful
00:03:38about themselves, right?
00:03:39That was, which is wild because the connection to what I'm doing today is really cool and
00:03:43we'll get there.
00:03:43But so I started this blog and then my husband encouraged me.
00:03:46He's like, share it on Instagram.
00:03:48And, you know, at the time Instagram was static stills.
00:03:51I'm sure I think Instagram stories was out, but nobody really used it.
00:03:54It was like Snapchat or Instagram.
00:03:55Yeah, Instagram is still like just your friends.
00:03:56It wasn't this whole media platform.
00:03:59It's wild.
00:04:00So I had, I remember it like it was yesterday.
00:04:02I was like, well, maybe I should start like my own side Instagram for this like blogging
00:04:06thing, you know?
00:04:07And he's like, no, no, no, just do it on your personal.
00:04:10You already have 440 followers, right?
00:04:13Were you blogging on like WordPress or like?
00:04:16It was on WordPress.
00:04:16Yes, I think it actually started on Blogspot, which I don't know if anybody did that.
00:04:20I remember that, yeah.
00:04:21I guess I'll see that like orange bee in my head, right?
00:04:23Yep, exactly.
00:04:24And then I went to, then you were like really knew what you were doing when you moved to
00:04:27WordPress, right?
00:04:27So anyways, we did that.
00:04:29And I knew nothing about websites or you learned as you went.
00:04:32This whole thing has been learned as you go.
00:04:34So he's like, you should share on Instagram.
00:04:35So I start sharing on my personal Instagram, my outfits that I would share on my blog.
00:04:40And I'm not joking you when I tell you, I went my worst nightmare.
00:04:43I went from 440 followers of all my friends and family to 220.
00:04:47And so I lost 50% of it.
00:04:50You lost it.
00:04:51All right.
00:04:51So your first, like everyone talks about their viral moment.
00:04:54You're like an antiviral moment.
00:04:56Exactly.
00:04:56Yep.
00:04:57So I started this and it's like one of those like gut punches, like, are you really committed
00:05:01to this?
00:05:01Do you really want to do this?
00:05:02Is it worth the embarrassment?
00:05:04And one of my favorite quotes is embarrassment is the cost of entry.
00:05:07And so I think it's really true.
00:05:09Like that was my cost of entry in order to do it.
00:05:12And I was like, well, do you like it?
00:05:14Or do you think you can do it or not?
00:05:16And so it was like all my friends' husbands are like, what the heck is she doing?
00:05:19Like, why is she posting her clothes?
00:05:21I don't, after like a month, they're like, I don't want to follow this anymore.
00:05:23This is weird.
00:05:24Right.
00:05:24And it wasn't blogging and Instagramming and sharing stuff like that online was not like
00:05:29a common thing people followed at the time.
00:05:31Now that seems wild.
00:05:32But at the time that wasn't the case.
00:05:34And so I started sharing my clothes.
00:05:36It was all this like very perfection, aesthetic, everything was perfect on social media kind
00:05:43of vibe curated.
00:05:44So were you like taking selfies in the mirror kind of thing?
00:05:46Selfies in the mirror, you know, the upside down ones at the time.
00:05:48I mean, they were like taking like your body.
00:05:50It wasn't really about the person.
00:05:52It was about more of like a different version of Pinterest, I guess.
00:05:55Like a version of like inspiration for people.
00:05:57It was all aesthetic.
00:05:58It was all curated.
00:05:58This whole like trend we seen that I'm like so in love with about real, authentic, all
00:06:04that wasn't there yet.
00:06:05Like we weren't there.
00:06:07And so people are still taking pictures of their fancy food.
00:06:09That's all it was.
00:06:10Yeah.
00:06:10Which I still do.
00:06:11But yeah.
00:06:11Yeah.
00:06:12That's all.
00:06:12It wasn't like, oh, here's a picture of my fancy food to balance out my chaos life.
00:06:16It was like, this is only the best parts.
00:06:19And so I think then you, obviously we saw this shift of like people like feeling crappy
00:06:23around on social media, which I know still exists today, but then come like, I made no
00:06:30money at first.
00:06:30It was all as a hobby.
00:06:33Not like I go in again, I don't go into anything small.
00:06:35So I was trying to make it a big hobby, but like it was a hobby.
00:06:38I wasn't making money the first year.
00:06:39My husband and I talk about it.
00:06:40I lost $20,000 doing it the first year because I had to buy like a camera if I wanted to do
00:06:44it.
00:06:44It was like, you know, I committed to this hobby.
00:06:46I bought a camera.
00:06:47I bought computers.
00:06:48I like tried to get better at it.
00:06:50I'm sure you bought clothes and be like, I'm going to post this.
00:06:52Right.
00:06:53And like affiliate income was my only way to like recoup some of that at the time.
00:06:57Like it didn't balance it out.
00:06:59Like I said, I lost $20,000 the first year I did it, but it was just this hobby.
00:07:04That's how I looked at it as like, you know what?
00:07:05I don't, I didn't even realize, I mean, nobody did at the time what that like people can create
00:07:11a living off of it.
00:07:12It wasn't like that in 2015, 2016.
00:07:14It was like, some people did it more successfully than others, but it was, it really was not
00:07:18what it is today.
00:07:19And so like flash forward a couple of years, I started again, like any money I made off
00:07:25of it was just affiliate income of people clicking on things, buying things.
00:07:28And, but I still always, I'm an Enneagram eight.
00:07:32I don't know if you know what that is.
00:07:33I'm sorry.
00:07:33Enneagram eight.
00:07:34No idea.
00:07:35Okay.
00:07:36Okay.
00:07:36So it's like, tell me, I want to learn.
00:07:37I'll tell you.
00:07:37So it's like this personality test and an eight is like, I'm just like honest to my
00:07:42core.
00:07:43Right.
00:07:43So like, I cannot lie about a single thing.
00:07:45Well, if I, I couldn't do it first of all, and I'm like pretty blunt and pretty honest.
00:07:50And I think in being a creator that has served me so well because it's helped me build this
00:07:56level of trust and authenticity since day one.
00:07:58Because if I don't like something, you're going to know it.
00:08:00And if I do like something, you're going to know it.
00:08:02And it's believable because it's the actual truth.
00:08:04And I think what I didn't know I was doing at the time was creating and building, making
00:08:09money or not, this level of trust with an audience that was following me.
00:08:14That's like same stage of life, same, like girls, we were growing up together, right?
00:08:18Doing the same thing.
00:08:19I was young 20.
00:08:20It's like, and we were just kind of living the same, living alongside each other, let's
00:08:24say, right?
00:08:24It looked pretty at the time.
00:08:25I didn't get to show like really who I was, but that came out about 2019.
00:08:29I had my first kid.
00:08:31Instagram stories became like a popular thing to do.
00:08:34Um, and it was kind of one of those moments.
00:08:36I've had several of these in my creator career, but like, you don't jump on, you're going to
00:08:41be irrelevant.
00:08:42You know, like you better like switch gears here and like start doing this.
00:08:45And as uncomfortable it was at the time, it was like, you're constantly reinventing
00:08:48yourself and like what you're doing and trying new things.
00:08:50And so it was one of those things.
00:08:52And I was like, I'm going to have to do this.
00:08:53Now I've got a kid, which was a aggressive transition for me personally, but like huge life
00:08:58change.
00:08:59Yeah.
00:09:00I was like, I'm making no money at this.
00:09:02Like I was ready to throw in the towel.
00:09:04I was like, everything is perfect.
00:09:05My life is a hot mess because I am learning to be a mom for the first time.
00:09:09I'm trying to make money on the side at a job while I'm trying to keep this hobby alive
00:09:13that now I've invested four years in.
00:09:14So it's not little to me.
00:09:15Like it's a big deal.
00:09:17And I feel like I've given it my all for four years.
00:09:19I'm not ready to just throw in the towel.
00:09:21Were you still teaching at this point?
00:09:22No, I stopped teaching and I was like doing accounting for our family's construction company.
00:09:26I've done well.
00:09:28Okay.
00:09:28Like, yeah.
00:09:30So I'm doing accounting on the side.
00:09:32I've got a kid.
00:09:33My husband's like, I'm obviously working full time because I'm not making money doing my
00:09:37hobby.
00:09:38And so we had this like honest conversation and it was summer of 2019.
00:09:42I remember it like it was yesterday.
00:09:44Across our kitchen, it was not cordial conversation.
00:09:47We were like, I was emotional because I felt like I had to give it up.
00:09:50Like I was, wasn't making money and I wasn't sure how much longer I could create this perfect
00:09:56persona online while living a hot mess behind the scenes.
00:10:00And it wasn't making us money.
00:10:01So it wasn't like I had to commit to it.
00:10:02Like, and my husband's like, so do you want to quit?
00:10:05And I was like, no, I love this.
00:10:07Like, I don't want to quit.
00:10:08I feel like I've fostered this connection.
00:10:11I like what I do.
00:10:12And I was like, we came to the conclusion that I either had to show up authentically as
00:10:15myself, which wasn't popular at the time.
00:10:17That was not still, it sounds like dumb to say now because it's so immediate and obvious.
00:10:23But at the time, like talking about how like you're a mess in the morning and your dog pees
00:10:28on your carpet and stuff like that, like being real and relatable wasn't an online thing at
00:10:32the time, especially on Instagram where I was.
00:10:34And I was like, you know what?
00:10:35I've either got to like do it and go all in and just like show my cards and be who I am
00:10:41and let go of this perfect persona and just be a mom and evolve.
00:10:44Or I've got to like let go, like throw in the towel, one of the two.
00:10:48So it's either going to go down burning or I just throw it in now.
00:10:51And I was like, you know what?
00:10:52I'm going to do it.
00:10:53It was so symbolic.
00:10:54You're going to laugh.
00:10:55I remember like it was yesterday.
00:10:56It was Labor Day weekend of 2019.
00:10:58And I like had long extensions like every creator did back then.
00:11:02And I cut them all off.
00:11:03I like cut my hair to my shoulders.
00:11:05And I like showed up the next day, like no makeup, full, like my kids spit up all over
00:11:10me.
00:11:10And I was like, just started showing up like that.
00:11:14And I hear about people like burning the ships, but you actually like cut your hair.
00:11:17I cut my hair off.
00:11:18Yeah.
00:11:18Just cut it off.
00:11:19I was like, I'm done with these perfect extensions that take me three hours to do every day.
00:11:22I'm like, I'm out of here.
00:11:23Like I can't do this anymore.
00:11:25And I just started showing up as myself, scared as hell.
00:11:29Like obviously, like I had never done social media that way.
00:11:33Nobody really did at the time.
00:11:34Like a few of us, a few people did maybe, but I wasn't watching it.
00:11:39Let's put it that way.
00:11:40And so I did it.
00:11:41Absolutely took off, which now it's like, no duh.
00:11:43Of course it did.
00:11:44But at the time, it didn't feel that way.
00:11:45And so from then on, it absolutely took off.
00:11:49From 2018 on, I had like double digit growth every single year.
00:11:51It was wild.
00:11:53I think I went from, at the end of 2019, I think I had 200,000 followers.
00:11:57I shot to a million in like less than 12 months.
00:12:00Wow.
00:12:00It was so fast.
00:12:01And then, you know, COVID was like just another steamrolling season for creators.
00:12:05Yes.
00:12:06When everyone was a hot mess.
00:12:07So you kind of, it all worked.
00:12:08It was great.
00:12:09It was iconic timing.
00:12:10But at the same time, it was like perfect timing too.
00:12:14Like I was able to practice in public, I guess you could say, from 2019 to 2020.
00:12:19And then everybody was showing up just as they were because nobody could do anything.
00:12:22And so that's kind of the story of like how it all got started pre-nudes, but how I got
00:12:26started as a creator.
00:12:27That's so cool.
00:12:28Tell me about that first video you said, like you showed up like a mess.
00:12:32Yeah.
00:12:32What was it?
00:12:33Remember what it was?
00:12:34Yes.
00:12:34Yeah.
00:12:35I remember.
00:12:36It was yesterday.
00:12:37It was an Instagram story.
00:12:38And I got on the morning after I cut off my hair.
00:12:41Okay.
00:12:41And I was in a hotel in Scottsdale, Arizona, because that's where we were when I did that.
00:12:45And I was wearing this like oversized, huge t-shirt, nothing stylishly appropriate.
00:12:50Like I had shown up online for the past four years.
00:12:53I had a nine month old, like on my hip.
00:12:56Okay.
00:12:56Spit up on my shirt.
00:12:57And I was like trying to curl my hair and like show people how I curl my hair as someone
00:13:01who has no idea how to curl hair.
00:13:02And I'd never done like a beauty anything.
00:13:04It was just like, this is a mom who has a kid on her hip also trying to curl her hair
00:13:08who looks a mess and like maybe it'll turn out good and maybe it won't.
00:13:11And that was the first time I feel like I showed up like authentic, like people are
00:13:15going to love it or hate it.
00:13:16Like I'm not this aspirational person that like I've shown up as for the past four years.
00:13:20And what was the response?
00:13:22Wild.
00:13:23Like I said, like people were like, oh, it's so refreshing.
00:13:27It's so good to see.
00:13:27Because at the time, authentic social media wasn't a thing.
00:13:30Today, thank God it is.
00:13:31Like it's so cool that it is.
00:13:32Yeah.
00:13:32I think people still feel like, you know, there's always some comparison because
00:13:37I mean, even today I try to be as real and authentic as I can be.
00:13:42I talk about my struggles as a mom.
00:13:43I talk about my struggles as a business owner, as a wife, as a person, whatever, like mental
00:13:47health, all that stuff.
00:13:48I talk about all that stuff.
00:13:50But like still, I'm not filming my kid when they're having a meltdown.
00:13:52So like you can only be so relatable, like because I'm not going to whip out my camera
00:13:55and be like, look, my kid acts like this too.
00:13:57I'm not going to do that.
00:13:58I can say it.
00:13:59But you usually see my kids acting awesome.
00:14:01And I also don't want to paint them in a bad light.
00:14:03So like they're, but they are kids.
00:14:05And I am a normal mom and I'm going through the same things they're going through.
00:14:08And I think that just like being honest and relatable has gotten me this level of trust
00:14:14with my audience that has taken all of, is the responsibility for all of my success.
00:14:21Is the fact that like I have invested in them and I care so much about who they are and where
00:14:26they are more so than my success ever at the end of the day.
00:14:30And I think that that is ultimately what's made it super successful.
00:14:33You said before, I mean, before you kind of did that switch being authentic, you had
00:14:37200,000 followers, which especially back in like 2018, 19, it wasn't insignificant.
00:14:41Yeah.
00:14:42What was their response?
00:14:43Cause they're used to seeing you perfect, I guess, in your fashion shoots and stuff or
00:14:47your fashion.
00:14:47Yeah.
00:14:48I stopped doing all of that.
00:14:48Yeah.
00:14:49What was the, the OG fans?
00:14:51What were their reaction to your new kind of style?
00:14:54I, I true.
00:14:54That's such a good question.
00:14:55I don't think I've ever thought, thought about that or like consciously.
00:14:59Honestly, I don't think a, I lost, I mean, I'm sure I did, but I don't think anyone was
00:15:05negative, like had a negative thought about it, but I know of at least the hate really
00:15:09wasn't a thing too.
00:15:11I think pre that I showed up as very kosher, which we can totally talk about as like palatable
00:15:16to everybody and standing here today, everybody's different, but that's not my stance on how I
00:15:20like to do it today.
00:15:21But I showed up as palatable to everybody.
00:15:24And when you become relatable and like personified to people, nobody hates that.
00:15:29Like, I mean, what is there to hate?
00:15:30I'm sure somebody does because people hate everything.
00:15:32But like-
00:15:33You pick one thing, they'll hate it for you.
00:15:34I mean, sure.
00:15:35But overwhelmed, I don't remember hate then, which is wild because I mean, today I'm no
00:15:39stranger, but like, I don't remember it then.
00:15:42I also don't know if it was as big of a thing then, to be honest.
00:15:44Like, I don't know, maybe today it's, it's more wildly appropriate and out there.
00:15:49But yeah, I'm a big believer, if everybody loves you, you're doing something wrong and
00:15:53you're not really loved by anybody.
00:15:55I think like if everybody loves you, then just everybody really likes you.
00:15:58Nobody really loves you.
00:15:59Because my thought is the greats at everything, it doesn't matter what you do.
00:16:04The greats at everything, people are passionate about them.
00:16:07They either love them or they hate them, whether it's sports, politics, like whatever.
00:16:10The greats at everything, whether you love them or hate them, people feel strongly towards
00:16:15them.
00:16:15Um, and I feel, I would argue even that the greater you are, the more passionate people
00:16:22love you or the more passionate people hate you.
00:16:24And so I've never set out since 2019, not since day one, but since 2019, I've never set
00:16:29out to be liked by everybody.
00:16:30Like, I mean, I'm for some people and I'm definitely not for others that love to make
00:16:34that known.
00:16:34And that's okay.
00:16:35Like, I'm cool with it because I feel like that is what makes the loyalty and the love
00:16:40so strong.
00:16:41And that's just a side effect.
00:16:42Like, um, I was, I was here in New York with my kids.
00:16:46I think it was Natural History Museum.
00:16:48There was like this picture of a shark.
00:16:49It was like an exhibit.
00:16:50And the quote on it, I'll never forget it.
00:16:52It was years ago.
00:16:53And the quote on it was, to be great is to be misunderstood.
00:16:56And I was like, you know what?
00:16:57It's the, it comes with the territory.
00:16:59Like, it's the cost.
00:17:00Like, if I, and so from that day on is when I started, like 2019 on is when I started to
00:17:05get hate and love, but the love is way stronger.
00:17:08And it, I mean, I, if I was palatable to everybody the way I was back then, I'd never
00:17:12have a business that I do today.
00:17:14And so, yeah, that comes with hate, but it also comes with like this massive trust, love
00:17:17following that people feel like they're a part of a community, which is really cool.
00:17:23But I love how you got inspiration from like a shark exhibit at the, uh, at the Museum
00:17:27of Natural History.
00:17:27That's cool.
00:17:28I like that.
00:17:28I pulled that out of left field for you, but yeah.
00:17:30No, that's good.
00:17:30That's like your chemistry teacher stuff going back and forth.
00:17:32So crazy.
00:17:33You mentioned the hate and love.
00:17:35Yeah.
00:17:35And you said you're fully accepting that you need to sometimes receive hate, but it's
00:17:41not easy.
00:17:41How do you deal with it personally?
00:17:43Good question.
00:17:44So I think there's like two conversations here.
00:17:47Uh, canceling is like one whole con I've been canceled before.
00:17:50That's, that's a wild ride.
00:17:52Um, and then just like your day to day, normal attention grabbing, whatever.
00:17:57Personally, you know, we all know that Reddit exists.
00:18:00I, I've never read my own.
00:18:02Um, and like, it's something that I am really strong about.
00:18:06And like, I have a whole family that now, um, are, we're kind of like, they all have
00:18:11a little bit of a platform, which is super cool to see like that effect now become generational,
00:18:15which is so wild.
00:18:17Cause like my mom has a platform, which is so cool.
00:18:19My sisters have like full-time incomes from it, which is so rewarding.
00:18:23It's like a whole, you're like a online Kardashians.
00:18:26I, I would love that.
00:18:27That'd be sick.
00:18:28But yeah, uh, I respect them highly.
00:18:30But like the, the thing is like, I think that with that, the hate, like people talk about
00:18:37it and I, I've told my family, I'm like, do not ever open it.
00:18:40Because my thought is, is I want to keep my head straight doing what I'm doing.
00:18:44People are going to hate it.
00:18:45They do.
00:18:45And it's okay.
00:18:46And like, I think that I have a strong, the more you do it, the stronger background you
00:18:50get.
00:18:51First of all, like, I think that confidence doesn't come overnight.
00:18:54I think you walk in it.
00:18:54It's like a trained muscle.
00:18:55I don't think it's like, I showed up today as confident as I was in 2019.
00:18:59I absolutely was not.
00:19:01I think if I saw some of the public things that are said today, I'd be crushed in 2019.
00:19:06So I think that like, you do build a muscle.
00:19:08Like it, confidence is a muscle that I think you train.
00:19:11Um, but I do think that I never go looking for it because I never want, once you read it,
00:19:16it's in your head.
00:19:17And whether or not that affects your confidence level, it's going to affect your output.
00:19:21At least it's going to be like, if somebody says, I don't like how Daryl Ann does X, Y,
00:19:25Z, when I do that thing, regardless of whether I'm doing it to spite them or not, it's going
00:19:29to be in my head.
00:19:30And I don't ever want my content to be created out of people who dislike me.
00:19:33I always want it to be created out of like what I have a heart for or what I feel like
00:19:36people are following me have a heart for.
00:19:38I never want to have a preconceived notion of like, do or don't do this because somebody dislikes
00:19:44it.
00:19:45And I don't have that right now.
00:19:46So I don't have that filter of knowing, oh, you know, they talk all day from what I
00:19:50understand.
00:19:50Like they, she did this, this, this, this, whatever.
00:19:53And like, I'm like, first of all, if it's accurate, great.
00:19:56If it's not accurate, most of the time it's probably not accurate.
00:19:59You know, like, and I don't know.
00:20:01I just don't let it become a part of my day to day.
00:20:04Um, I have been canceled.
00:20:05That was a wild ride.
00:20:06Tell me about that.
00:20:07Yuck.
00:20:08Um, yeah, I think I would, I think I would approach it today differently than I had then.
00:20:14There's a naivety to it that if you've never been through it, it's scary.
00:20:18And like having somebody to walk through it with you is life changing.
00:20:22I had somebody walk through it with me, um, who had been canceled and her name's Kara.
00:20:27Her, her platform is taking care of babies.
00:20:29Very different than what I do.
00:20:30But she, I remember she called me every day for an hour and we just like sound phone together.
00:20:34And she like, she's like, it's going to be okay.
00:20:37I promise it's not as loud as it feels.
00:20:39I promise it's not as big.
00:20:40They'll move on.
00:20:41They'll move on.
00:20:41And I was canceled in 2021 over COVID, of course, you know, uh, some, somebody was mad about
00:20:47how I handled COVID, which is okay.
00:20:49Like, I understand it was hot then.
00:20:52Right.
00:20:52So it was very heated.
00:20:53Everyone was heated.
00:20:54So you were more, were you, what were you doing that made them upset?
00:20:58My mom got COVID and they, uh, perceived that she did not follow the rules as she should,
00:21:06which she did.
00:21:07That's irrelevant.
00:21:07Like, I mean, whether or not you show receipts, there's no way to prove indefinitely, especially
00:21:13to people that are frustrated and angry that what reality is like, it's their reality.
00:21:18That's how they perceived it.
00:21:20Like, forget it.
00:21:21It doesn't really even matter what the truth is at that point.
00:21:23That is what they believe.
00:21:24And that's kind of how hate runs.
00:21:26Like you're never going to prove them wrong.
00:21:28Like you're, no amount of receipts are going to be enough, you know?
00:21:30And so I remember going through it, walking through it every day.
00:21:36It feels very loud.
00:21:37And my mom was hospitalized, which was scary.
00:21:39So I was walking through this.
00:21:40So she's hospitalized and then people were mad at your mom.
00:21:42And me.
00:21:43Very angry.
00:21:44Yeah.
00:21:44I'm worried.
00:21:45I know one day my mom will get me canceled too.
00:21:47So I'm just waiting for that.
00:21:49Yeah.
00:21:49She was more nervous.
00:21:50Oh gosh, my poor mom.
00:21:51She was like out of it because she was hospitalized and nobody could see her.
00:21:55Obviously she didn't really know what was going on.
00:21:56Thank God.
00:21:57I'm so grateful.
00:21:58She didn't.
00:21:58But like people are wild.
00:22:00You know, like death threats to my mom.
00:22:01Yucky stuff.
00:22:02I like logged her out of her own page so people couldn't be talking to her while no one was
00:22:06with her kind of a thing.
00:22:07It was intense.
00:22:09But I will say like walking through that now, at the end I had like, these people exist.
00:22:15A cancel culture attorney.
00:22:18Never knew that existed.
00:22:19It does.
00:22:19Yeah.
00:22:20And like a real attorney.
00:22:21So they were reading all that was going on for me, which was really helpful because then
00:22:25I didn't have to read it because like somebody's trying to keep a pulse on BuzzFeed writing
00:22:29XYZ article, blah, blah, blah, whatever.
00:22:31And so they were doing that for me.
00:22:32I didn't have to get in the weeds of like hearing what people are saying while I'm stressed
00:22:35about my mom and the whole nine.
00:22:36It's just a time thing.
00:22:38Like you let it ride.
00:22:39Somebody came to me like literally a week ago.
00:22:41She tagged me today in a story.
00:22:42And she's like, because I've been walking with her the way somebody walked with me.
00:22:47And I'm like, I promise I don't even know it exists.
00:22:50It's like I am in this world with you and I don't see it.
00:22:53Like it's not on my For You page.
00:22:54Of course it's on yours.
00:22:56You know, like I'm in this world with you and I don't see it.
00:22:58It's only loud because they're loud.
00:23:00Like it's not that loud.
00:23:02The real normal people of the world don't care.
00:23:04You know, like no one's out here.
00:23:07It just feels really loud.
00:23:08It is hard to get through.
00:23:09I think going through it today, I'd be a lot less scared than I was then.
00:23:15Because I don't think anybody can take away.
00:23:17Nobody can cancel somebody who doesn't really care, first of all.
00:23:21And I think I would care less today than I did then.
00:23:24And then I really think you can't.
00:23:27Like again, people love you or they hate you.
00:23:29And like if they hate you, like I've learned to be like whatever.
00:23:31Like let it ride.
00:23:33Like let them hate me.
00:23:34At the end of the day, like I'm not going to apologize for something I'm not sorry for.
00:23:37And I really wish that like back then I knew that.
00:23:40Like if I didn't do anything wrong and I didn't have to say sorry.
00:23:43Like I feel like today a lot of like advice that people are given is like, well, just apologize to appease.
00:23:49And I think that's the—personally for me as like, remember I told you, I'm like honest to my core.
00:23:54That's the wrong move.
00:23:55I think that like the only people that appeases are the people that don't like you.
00:23:58I think the people that do like you are going to stand by you whether or not, you know, for what you believe.
00:24:02And I think that today I would approach it a little bit more aggressively probably than I did then.
00:24:07But I've also gone through it before, you know.
00:24:09So like I think that of course it's scary the first time.
00:24:12I think I am blessed that I walk through it.
00:24:15And I think you can't take something away.
00:24:17Like I was telling the girl that I was walking through it with the other day.
00:24:20I'm like they can't stop you.
00:24:23Like you can't stop somebody who won't give up.
00:24:26Like don't give up.
00:24:27Like just keep going.
00:24:28Like you're going to make it through.
00:24:29Like in a year from now, nobody's going to be talking about this.
00:24:31And you're still—I told her, I was like my business came back better than it ever had.
00:24:34Yes, I lost money in the meantime.
00:24:36I think I lost—in three months, I think I lost a million dollars.
00:24:39Like it was wild.
00:24:39I have just people who, you know, brands that are nervous for PR's sake to take on somebody, especially in 2021.
00:24:46I don't blame them, you know.
00:24:47But yes, you might lose money.
00:24:49But my business today is way stronger than it was then.
00:24:52And nobody could threaten that if I didn't stop, if I didn't quit, if I didn't give up, if they didn't make me quit or give up.
00:24:57You can't take it away from somebody who won't quit, you know.
00:24:59I got to ask, what does a cancel culture attorney do?
00:25:02They charge you what an attorney does and they read your Reddit and it's a waste of money.
00:25:06I would never do that.
00:25:06I'm sorry, they do what?
00:25:08They charge you what an attorney does.
00:25:10So imagine $500 an hour, something stupid.
00:25:12Okay.
00:25:13And they read your Reddit.
00:25:15They make sure that like nothing's coming out that's new.
00:25:18They talk to brands to appease them and try to like make things kosher and be like, explain that it's not a big deal.
00:25:26Try to be on your side.
00:25:27Like I got on Zoom calls with like the brands I worked with and them.
00:25:30Like let's talk about it.
00:25:31Let's walk through like our game plan.
00:25:33What are we going to do?
00:25:34How are we going to continue this partnership?
00:25:36When should we pick it back up?
00:25:37That kind of thing.
00:25:38They just like help strategize.
00:25:39She was great.
00:25:40I just probably wouldn't do it again.
00:25:41Gotcha.
00:25:42Yeah.
00:25:42So I love this.
00:25:43Like you're walking with someone.
00:25:44You're helping someone now going through this.
00:25:46Yeah.
00:25:46And you've told these great stories.
00:25:47But what if someone said, Daryl Ann, what is kind of your like your social media crisis strategy playbook?
00:25:54Like what are your like your five steps?
00:25:56Because it sounds like you have like a really good.
00:25:58Okay.
00:25:58I don't know that I have five, but I'll tell you what I would do.
00:26:01Okay.
00:26:01Three.
00:26:01I would.
00:26:02Advice for getting through a crisis if you're on social media.
00:26:04Two things.
00:26:05One, I kept my head down and kept going as if nothing was happening.
00:26:10I wish for my own mental health I would have stopped for a second.
00:26:13I don't think it affected anybody externally.
00:26:16I wish for my own mental health I would have been like, it's okay to take seven days off.
00:26:20Just take five to seven days off.
00:26:22Regroup.
00:26:23Because when you turn it off, it's like it doesn't exist.
00:26:26Like the minute you turn off your phone, you take the app off, it's like it doesn't exist.
00:26:30And you realize what's important.
00:26:32It like grounds you and makes you realize like this is not as big of a deal as it feels like.
00:26:36Because it feels huge, right?
00:26:38Like it feels intense.
00:26:39It feels like it's the entire world.
00:26:41When you're walking down the street and you're like, this person has no freaking idea that all these people are.
00:26:45I'm at it.
00:26:45Like no one knows.
00:26:46So it helps you get a level head, I think.
00:26:48So I wish I would have turned it off for a minute.
00:26:50And I kept posting like business as usual.
00:26:53And I wish I would have stopped for a second.
00:26:55I think the second thing is I wouldn't apologize for something you're not sorry for.
00:26:58Whether or not, if you did something wrong, like apologize.
00:27:01Like I'm here for it.
00:27:02But if you, people just don't like what you did.
00:27:06But you didn't necessarily do something wrong or you weren't like really rude or anything like that.
00:27:11Like I think apologize when you're sorry and mean it.
00:27:14Otherwise don't do it.
00:27:15And I think that just like knowing, the third thing I would say is like knowing that the greater you are, the more love you're going to get, the more hate you're going to get.
00:27:26It is what it is.
00:27:27Like I think that, but you're never going to create something really great unless you, that comes with it.
00:27:32Like so you're, if everybody likes you, like there's some platforms I see where I feel like, and even I can be discouraged by it as a creator.
00:27:40Like, God, it feels like everybody loves this person.
00:27:42And like my husband will remind me, he's like, yeah, but then nobody truly is passionate about it.
00:27:46Like I think being somebody that people like feel like a ride or die, like I feel like that's something really special about my audience is I feel like people who come and work for nudes are like, wow, it's like a cult following.
00:27:56I'm like, yeah, but that comes with the territory of like cult hater also.
00:28:01And I'm okay with that.
00:28:02Like I've learned to be okay with it.
00:28:03But I think it's a trained muscle.
00:28:04I don't think I was chill about it then as I am today.
00:28:08Today it doesn't bother me.
00:28:09It's fine.
00:28:09And I think I'm a mom.
00:28:10I think I'm 34.
00:28:11I'm a mom.
00:28:12And I'm like, I don't have time for this.
00:28:14Like, you know what I mean?
00:28:15Like, go for it.
00:28:16Like, I don't have time for it.
00:28:18I'm going to show up every day and do what I'm here to do and like what I have a purpose to do.
00:28:22And I know in my gut, like that is my calling, what I'm doing.
00:28:24And this is a distraction that I'm not going to let stop it kind of a thing.
00:28:29You mentioned before when you first started for years, you weren't making money.
00:28:32You're losing money.
00:28:33Yes.
00:28:33How did you start making money and what brand deal made all the difference?
00:28:36That's such a good question.
00:28:37And so my very first brand deal I ever got paid or I ever got offered payment for, ever, was $150.
00:28:44I'm not kidding you.
00:28:45And I turned it down because it was a gift basket company that I personally, like very popular.
00:28:52Everyone knows it.
00:28:52I personally wouldn't use it.
00:28:55And I never, like, liked getting them.
00:28:57Just wasn't my thing.
00:28:59I don't think there's anything wrong with them.
00:29:01And I was, like, through the roof when I got the email.
00:29:03Like, so-and-so wants to pay you $150 to make an Instagram post.
00:29:07Like, this is a long time ago, obviously.
00:29:09But, like, I was like, oh, my God.
00:29:11Like, I can make money of this.
00:29:12Like, it was, like, the coolest thing.
00:29:14And my husband looks at me and he goes, you don't like that.
00:29:17I almost just said the name.
00:29:17He's like, you don't like that.
00:29:18And I was like, yeah.
00:29:20And he's like, so don't do it.
00:29:22And I was like, yeah, okay.
00:29:24So I didn't do it.
00:29:24And I said no.
00:29:25I said, like, thank you very much.
00:29:26But unfortunately, I'm not, like, I don't, I'm not a consumer of that.
00:29:29So I'm going to have to pass or whatever.
00:29:31And from that moment on, thank God I did that.
00:29:35Because I think it literally established in me that saying no was my most powerful thing I could do to build trust in my audience.
00:29:43And it's gotten me the biggest career advancements, like, of all time.
00:29:47I think that I started making money, like I told you earlier, my, from, I would say, 2015, which really wasn't anything.
00:29:54But, like, to 2020, affiliate income was my biggest income by far.
00:29:58So basically, you post a picture with this sweater, and then someone likes it and clicks it, and you get paid a couple bucks.
00:30:03LTK, now it's shop my whatever.
00:30:05Like, now there's differentiation.
00:30:07But at the time, it was LTK reward sale.
00:30:09Like, yeah.
00:30:10So that was my first season.
00:30:12I didn't really know people made money.
00:30:14And then the Nordstrom sale, which is ironic that it's happening right now.
00:30:17But, like, that was a big, that's, like, a Super Bowl for a fashion blogger of the 2018 era.
00:30:23And, like, 2018, I did it, and I covered it for the first time.
00:30:26And I made it in the tens of thousands of dollars.
00:30:28And I was on the floor.
00:30:30Like, I was like, wait a second.
00:30:33Like, this is, like, half of my yearly income I'm making in two weeks.
00:30:38Like, this is, what is this?
00:30:39Like, this is crazy money.
00:30:40Like, and I had such a respect for it because I had done it so long for free, you know?
00:30:45And so, like, I was like, what in the world?
00:30:47Like, it was, I never did, I didn't do anything different than I had done it the past four years.
00:30:51But all of a sudden, it just, like, took off from an affiliate income.
00:30:54And so, I think 2018, 19, and 20, I, like, definitely affiliate income was, like, my biggest portion of income.
00:31:01That's the best I can say it.
00:31:03Especially 2020 with, like, COVID and, like, people shopping online.
00:31:06Amazon was massive and, like, really coming onto the creator scene.
00:31:10And I had, like, lots of calls with them.
00:31:11And so, that was a big deal for my business.
00:31:13And then I would say from 20, once I hit, like, a million plus followers, the brand partnership part took over.
00:31:19And so, then today, I would say it's, like, exactly flipped.
00:31:22Affiliates, affiliates great.
00:31:24But it's, it, my brand partnership income is obviously, like, where I make almost all of my income.
00:31:30You said the power of saying no to things.
00:31:32What was the first brand or deal you said yes to?
00:31:34It was a t-shirt company.
00:31:35I can't even remember the name.
00:31:37It was cute.
00:31:37I thought it was so cute.
00:31:39And I remember, gosh, I can't think of the name.
00:31:41It was a small company, small business, which I'm, like, very passionate about small business because I'm an entrepreneur.
00:31:49And, like, my family's, I come from a family of entrepreneurs.
00:31:51And so, I remember it was a small business.
00:31:54They offered me $500 now to do, I think it was two posts.
00:31:57Okay.
00:31:57So, I, like, remember I shot a picture of it by my pool.
00:32:01It wasn't Instagram stories or anything like that.
00:32:03I was, like, by my pool.
00:32:04It was cute, summery t-shirts, graphic t-shirts.
00:32:07And it was $500.
00:32:08And then I remember my first, like, long-term contract.
00:32:12I was on the ground because a company offered me, like, in, like, I think it was $10,000 for a full year of posting.
00:32:20And I was, like, oh, my God, wild.
00:32:22And it's so full circle because that same company I still worked with last year.
00:32:25And it was my biggest contract to date last year.
00:32:27It wasn't $10,000, was it?
00:32:29No.
00:32:29It was, no, it wasn't $10,000.
00:32:31It was, yeah, in the seven figures.
00:32:33It was wild.
00:32:34Who was this with?
00:32:35It was a company I had worked with, which is so cool because it's, I work with a lot of companies I believe in so much that, like, I had worked with them.
00:32:42They were my first big contract, I'm not kidding you, in 2016 was a year, 17, something like that.
00:32:492016 or 17 was the first year I actually, like, made a little bit of money to cover my expenses, you know?
00:32:54And then come 2023 or 4, whenever we signed it, I can't remember what it was, I've worked with them every year since then.
00:33:01And, like, never, we've never walked away.
00:33:03I've done it, like, month over month for, what is that, like, seven years?
00:33:07It's wild.
00:33:08So, I think the loyalty and the dedication builds also a trust with my following that it makes it worth it for the brand to be, like, hey, you're, I'm here to make it a win.
00:33:17A win for me, a win for the brand, a win for the follower.
00:33:19Like, that's my goal is, like, how can we make it?
00:33:21If it's like that, it'll stand longevity.
00:33:23I don't, I'm not here to do a one-off, especially at this point in my career.
00:33:26Like, I have certain partners that are, like, pillars that because I've created such a value for my audience out of it, like, I can give you a great example in Living Proof.
00:33:34Living Proof is one of my favorite partners.
00:33:36I love working with them.
00:33:37Their team's incredible.
00:33:38It's like a shampoo.
00:33:40Yeah, it's like a hair care company.
00:33:41Their team is incredible.
00:33:42I've worked with them, again, for, like, seven years, I want to say.
00:33:45And we work together.
00:33:47And in a 24-hour period, we will sell, on my channel, more dry shampoo than Sephora sells in an entire calendar year in 24 hours.
00:33:54Wow.
00:33:55So, it's wild.
00:33:56So, the power of it is intense and wild.
00:33:58But, like, the loyalty and the trust that I've built, I think that's something that, like, if I could tell somebody who is a creator today, like, starting today, you know, it's different than what I did.
00:34:08But, like, nobody can take away from you, like, your trust, the level of community you build.
00:34:14And someone who knows and has an audience that they can sell to, they'll never be out of a job.
00:34:22So, like, if the economy tanks, brands still need conversion.
00:34:27Like, they still need sales.
00:34:28That's when they need it most.
00:34:29They need sales.
00:34:30If the economy is doing great, they still want somebody who can sell.
00:34:32So, like, brand, whereas somebody, a celebrity maybe, being paid for brand awareness may not be paid during certain times, brands always need sales.
00:34:40So, I think, though, what has made me such a powerful converter is the level of trust and authenticity I've built over years to, like, now it works.
00:34:50But it only works because I've stayed committed and my no's were strong.
00:34:55Like, no, I'm not going to do that because it's not something I would like.
00:35:00Okay, something I feel that's really strong, too, is there was a season where the cereal company was paying a lot of creators a lot of money.
00:35:07And they came to me and approached me.
00:35:09And each box of cereal was about $10.
00:35:11And I was like, I can't rightfully sell a box of cereal that's $10.
00:35:16I, as a consumer, would be like, no.
00:35:19Unless they were, like, the greatest thing since sliced bread, then, like, let me try it.
00:35:22So, I take it.
00:35:23I try it.
00:35:23I didn't like it.
00:35:24I mean, some people probably do, but I didn't.
00:35:27And I was like, every single time that person sees that $10 box of cereal, they trusted me.
00:35:33And it's in their pantry because they won't eat it because they don't like it either.
00:35:37For the next six months while it sits there until they throw it away, they're going to look at that and be like, I don't trust her.
00:35:42To some extent.
00:35:42Like, she sold me on this.
00:35:44I spent hard-earned money I have, whether it's $10 or, I mean, whether it's $10 or $100.
00:35:48Like, it doesn't really matter what it is.
00:35:50If you, I look at, I was listening to a podcast the other day, and it was Diary of a CEO with Stephen Bertoni.
00:35:57Or not Stephen Bertoni.
00:35:58I just gave you credit for Diary of a CEO.
00:36:00Sorry, Steve Bartlett.
00:36:01I wish I was, I wish my podcast was Steve Bartlett.
00:36:04I just gave you credit.
00:36:05He's a big under 30, he's a big Forbes under 30 member.
00:36:07He's incredible.
00:36:07So I was listening to Diary of a CEO, and it was Kevin O'Leary who was on it.
00:36:13And he looked at Stephen, and Stephen asked for advice for, like, people in their 20s, young entrepreneurs, I think is what the question was.
00:36:19And he said, you know, you've, and it was to Stephen directly, and he said, you've built this.
00:36:25Like, it's incredible.
00:36:26You've garnered all this trust.
00:36:27Now it's yours to lose.
00:36:28And I feel like that with every single thing I step on there and sell or say.
00:36:33Like, this trust that I have spent literally now 10 years building, it's mine to lose every single time they buy something or trust me on it.
00:36:40Because it can take that long to build and, like, two seconds to lose.
00:36:44And so I will never sell something that compromises.
00:36:49If I don't fully believe in it, it's my nose of no, for sure.
00:36:52And it's got to be, like, done in the way that I feel is the most authentic and value-adding to them.
00:36:58So, like, in 2018, I completely stopped.
00:37:01Everything I film is on the fly right then, real time, right?
00:37:05Nothing is, I don't have anything for tomorrow.
00:37:08So, like, it's not, like, stored, right?
00:37:10And I film everything in, I tell every brand I work with, I'm, like, I film it in the Instagram app, and I write on it immediately and post it that second.
00:37:17So, like, if you want it, you better, like, ask me for it before I do it, because I got to go, then you're never going to get it, right?
00:37:21So, like, everything is that candid, that real, that off the cuff.
00:37:25And that is one of the things that makes my platform specifically strong.
00:37:28And so, in 2020, brands really started wanting drafts and, like, pre-approvals on everything.
00:37:36And I would do it, but then the next day, I would, like, make sure I was wearing the same thing I was wearing in that video and, like, try to make it flow through my day so it felt me because my day flows.
00:37:45And it was ruining it for me.
00:37:47I, like, started hating my job, which I literally love my job.
00:37:50I would and have done it for free.
00:37:52And so, I was, like, I hate this.
00:37:55Like, you literally took what I love and made it what I hate.
00:37:57And my husband's, like, if you hate it that much, are you willing to say no to it every single time they ask for it?
00:38:02Like, your no's got to be a no.
00:38:04And I was, like, yeah, I am.
00:38:05I'm ready to say no.
00:38:06And so, I hard-nosed it.
00:38:07I was, like, I can't do this anymore.
00:38:09Like, this is not, this is because I feel it's at the loss of my follower at the end of the day.
00:38:14Like, because she's not getting my normal, authentic platform she comes here for.
00:38:19And I think it's not going to perform best for your brand.
00:38:21Like, both things.
00:38:22And I hate it.
00:38:23So, it's a lose across all situations.
00:38:25And so, I'm going to say no because I have to.
00:38:27And if that's a non-negotiable for them, okay.
00:38:30Like, that's chill.
00:38:31Like, it's, we don't, then it's not right, right?
00:38:33The amount of brands that have trusted me, and I've, like, tried to make good on it.
00:38:36I've been, like, hey, if I mess something up, I'll make it good for you.
00:38:39But just let me do it this way because I know it's going to turn out best for you, best for them, best for me.
00:38:43And so, my no's been a no on that since 2020.
00:38:45I never take anything as pre-approval.
00:38:47I have not since then.
00:38:48And so, I think my no's have been my biggest wins as a creator.
00:38:54Just, like, knowing in my gut when it's right for my business, when it's right for my community, when it's right for me to say no.
00:39:00And sticking with that and my no is why I think people trust me today.
00:39:05What was the biggest deal you've said no to?
00:39:08For a pre-approval, Disney.
00:39:09Oh, no, just for in general.
00:39:10Probably Disney.
00:39:11Sad.
00:39:12What was it for?
00:39:13If I remember right, this was a couple years ago.
00:39:14This is kind of when I, like, really put my foot in the sand.
00:39:17Okay.
00:39:17So, like, it was like, you really mean it kind of a thing.
00:39:20Yeah.
00:39:21I think it was when Disney Plus was coming out.
00:39:23Okay.
00:39:23If I remember right.
00:39:25It was for Disney, for sure.
00:39:26And I love Disney.
00:39:27And I have the young kids.
00:39:28So, I was like, yes, please.
00:39:30Like, let's do this.
00:39:30This is awesome.
00:39:31I'm so excited about this.
00:39:32And it felt like a big deal to me because, you know, Disney's not, like, the smallest fish in the sea to work with.
00:39:36And so, I was like, this is so cool.
00:39:39And they wouldn't budge.
00:39:40And my husband's like, your no is a no.
00:39:43And I was like, yeah, my no is a no.
00:39:44So, okay.
00:39:45Your husband's like the Yoda.
00:39:47He's the best.
00:39:47He's like the Yoda of social media.
00:39:48He's literally the best.
00:39:49You've already, like, quoted, like, three maxims from your husband.
00:39:52I know.
00:39:52He's the best.
00:39:53We've been together since we were, I was 15.
00:39:55So, like, we are.
00:39:57I feel like he is, like, he knows me inside and out.
00:39:59So, he, like, knows.
00:40:01He's my great sounding board.
00:40:02So, like, he knows when I should say no and knows when I should say yes.
00:40:04But ultimately, I think, like, that trust, that audience, that community of women, like, me caring about her every day since 2019 when I had that huge shift.
00:40:14This kind of sounds cheesy maybe.
00:40:15But every day I wake up and I'm like, how can I add value to the girl that follows me today?
00:40:19That's, like, my one question.
00:40:20And it's always the girl.
00:40:22Like, I always see one.
00:40:23Not, like, not more than one.
00:40:25Whether that be a lot of times, it's just entertainment.
00:40:27Okay.
00:40:27Especially today.
00:40:28Like, sometimes it's just fun.
00:40:29Like, she laughs.
00:40:30Like, it's funny.
00:40:30Like, I, my stupidity can make her laugh.
00:40:33Like, I've had so many moments as a mom that are, like, you know, make her feel better, make her laugh.
00:40:38Whether it's me, like, the other day I was talking about how I started taking anti-anxiety medication.
00:40:43And, like, after I had my third kid.
00:40:45Like, that was a thing.
00:40:46And, like, whether that's validating for her in that way, whether it's entertainment, whether it's a great deal, whether she comes to me just for, like, a great deal.
00:40:52How do I add value to her life?
00:40:54How do I make her, at the end of the day, feel better about herself?
00:40:56So, like, full circle now, getting to do nudes.
00:40:59My blog was something beautiful.
00:41:01And now, like, our entire mission statement at nudes is to instill confidence.
00:41:05And so it kind of is, like, a full circle moment that, like, me adding value to her life, making her feel good about herself is my ultimate calling goal.
00:41:11I feel like it's very cool because I've grown up with these girls.
00:41:15Like, they've watched me grow up, become a mom.
00:41:17They have a lot of them become a mom.
00:41:20And I feel like when I meet them, like, in real life, it's the coolest thing because it feels like I'm, like, we could be friends.
00:41:26If I just, like, was right next to you all the time, we'd be, like, great friends.
00:41:29So it's really special and it's really cool.
00:41:31And I never take it for granted.
00:41:32But that's one of the most rewarding parts, I would say, of it.
00:41:35I love that.
00:41:36So cool.
00:41:36And I'm glad you brought up nudes.
00:41:38I was thinking, not those kind of nudes, other nudes.
00:41:41Yeah, right.
00:41:41But, like, you have built, you talked about your community, your platform, and then you're working with brands.
00:41:47And then you went out and created, like, a big, successful brand yourself.
00:41:51Yeah, nudes is wild.
00:41:52Nudes.
00:41:52Tell me about that, how that come about.
00:41:53And also, I love how you've jumped from teacher to blogger to influencer.
00:41:58And now, like, you're in retail and apparel.
00:42:00Tell me how that started.
00:42:02Yeah, I'm an entrepreneur, right?
00:42:03So, like, we laugh because my parents always laugh because my dad was an entrepreneur.
00:42:06Okay.
00:42:07And I always said, I'm—
00:42:07What did he do?
00:42:08He owns a construction company.
00:42:09Okay.
00:42:10Well, he owned, like, a window tinting company.
00:42:12And, like, you know, my dad's an entrepreneur like that.
00:42:14And I always told my parents growing up, I'm like, I'm never owning my own business.
00:42:17Because I saw, when you're around small business or you grow up with a family who has small business,
00:42:22that's why I'm very passionate about it today.
00:42:24And, like, one of my favorite things to do, like, as a give back is support small business with Mike.
00:42:28Because me supporting a small business can be life-changing for them.
00:42:31And I think it's—it is—it could bring me to tears.
00:42:34It's the most rewarding part of my job.
00:42:35Like, I literally love getting to affect a small business in some way.
00:42:38Like, I think it's so cool.
00:42:40But, yeah.
00:42:40So, being an entrepreneur—I'm obviously, like, a serial entrepreneur.
00:42:43But when we went to start Nudes, it was—I was advertising all these clothes for all these companies.
00:42:49And I was like, I could do this so much better.
00:42:50To adding value to her, like, to making her feel good about herself, I'm like, I could do this better.
00:42:55I could make it—make everyone feel better.
00:42:56Because I'm always, like, putting it on and being like, you know what?
00:42:59You're going to feel really good in this.
00:43:00Or don't get this.
00:43:01Or, like, honesty to my core, right?
00:43:03Like, so I think that having done it for so many other brands for so long, I was like, I can do—I can do this.
00:43:10Like, I know I can do this.
00:43:11I had, like, in my family at the time, we have—I'm one of five siblings and four girls.
00:43:18I know the body struggles.
00:43:19We're—every size you could think of, like, across the span, right?
00:43:23And so I was like, I know all of our struggles.
00:43:26We're all—we all live within a half mile of each other.
00:43:28We all compare everything, like, clothes, whatever.
00:43:30And I'm like, we can do this.
00:43:31Like, we could really do it.
00:43:32We could really make an impact here.
00:43:33And so I actually went out to one of the brands.
00:43:35I'm very—like, we were talking about.
00:43:37I think, like, me caring about the brands I work with, too, and the girls I work for, it's really cool because I've created such awesome relationships.
00:43:45I was on a brand call one day, and I was like, hey, you know anybody who makes—I had two business ideas at the time.
00:43:50Nudes was one.
00:43:50Okay.
00:43:51And then I had another one.
00:43:52And I was like, you know anybody that makes XYZ?
00:43:54I'm not going to give you that one because I still think that's a great idea.
00:43:57And I'm going to do it one day.
00:43:58But—
00:43:58Okay.
00:43:58And he's like, no, I don't.
00:43:59And I was like, okay, well, do you know anybody who makes clothes?
00:44:02I said it like that because I have zero experience in manufacturing clothing, right?
00:44:05And he's all—actually, like, a friend I went to college with does, and her and her husband, I think they do it.
00:44:11Like, I could connect you.
00:44:12And I'm like, sick.
00:44:13Oh, like, he's a hair care company.
00:44:15Again, like, zero relation.
00:44:16We just had a really good, like, business relationship.
00:44:19And so he was willing to, like, connect me.
00:44:21I got on the phone with them.
00:44:23And wild, they came on as our—like, a year later.
00:44:26We contracted with them to, like, make clothes.
00:44:28We just, like, kind of saw where it would go.
00:44:30I made, like, a few products.
00:44:31Like, started with a T-shirt.
00:44:32I was like, hey, let's make a T-shirt that everybody feels good in.
00:44:35And I was like, once we nailed it, I was like, you think we could make a bodysuit?
00:44:37That would be something.
00:44:38Like, if we could make a bodysuit that everybody felt good in.
00:44:41And so we did that.
00:44:42We came up with seven products.
00:44:44Did you design—
00:44:44All of it.
00:44:45You designed the cut and the color, everything?
00:44:48I mean, I don't want to give myself credit for any technicality because, like I said, I had zero experience in clothing.
00:44:53But I did have experience in women.
00:44:55Like, so I did have experience in women, my demographic, the girl who follows me, what I'd looked for, what I hate, what I like, what's important, all of those things.
00:45:06And I feel like—I say it all the time to our team—my naivety is part of the reason I think Nudes is successful today because we don't do anything conventional.
00:45:13Like, everything is done based on the needs and the wants of the girl on the other side.
00:45:17That's it.
00:45:18That's what I start with.
00:45:18And so that's how I made those clothes.
00:45:21And I was like, okay, if I wanted this, what do I pick apart about every single one on the market and let me fix it?
00:45:27So that's exactly what we did.
00:45:28We came out with seven products.
00:45:30We started, like, a year—we called it Nudes.
00:45:32I know you're laughing about it.
00:45:33We spelled it N-U-U-D-S because my husband didn't want people searching Daryl and Denner Nudes.
00:45:38Okay.
00:45:38Like, spelled correctly.
00:45:39So your husband has all the advice.
00:45:41He knows it all.
00:45:41So, like, I mean, I hope you wouldn't find anything.
00:45:44Everyone's going to go out and try and find it now.
00:45:45I mean, go for it.
00:45:45But I think we didn't want that as a trending search term, you know?
00:45:49I got it.
00:45:50And so we spelled it different.
00:45:51Yeah, you start typing in the Google box, the first thing that comes down is there.
00:45:53Yeah, Daryl and Denner Nudes.
00:45:54Yeah, right?
00:45:55We spelled it different.
00:45:56We launched October 28th of 2022, about a year and a few months after we started.
00:46:01Like, that's a long time.
00:46:02And for me, I'm an open book.
00:46:03Like, I kid you not, I take a pregnancy test.
00:46:06I tell the world I'm pregnant the next day.
00:46:07Like, it is like—
00:46:08Okay.
00:46:09I am, like, an open book.
00:46:10But with this, a year of holding this behind the scenes was, like, nothing I'd ever done before.
00:46:17And I knew I wanted to because, A, if it didn't work out, I wasn't, like, attached to it then at that point.
00:46:22Because once I start sharing something that's real, I'm kind of attached to it because it becomes, like, real.
00:46:26Other people are in it with me.
00:46:28It becomes, like, you know, something we all grab onto together.
00:46:30And I was like, if it doesn't work out, I have no experience in this.
00:46:33Like, it's okay.
00:46:34Like, I shot it, whatever.
00:46:36And like I said, I didn't go into it, like, anything to be small.
00:46:39I never do.
00:46:40But I never knew it would be what it is today.
00:46:43So we're two and a half years in.
00:46:45It's grown, like, double digits every year.
00:46:48Like, it's done over $100 million.
00:46:50It's, like, it's wildly successful.
00:46:52So it's done over $100 million in sales.
00:46:53Yeah.
00:46:53And it's wildly successful because, in my opinion, money is not my driver.
00:46:58Like, the girl in the end is my driver.
00:47:00And how big of a movement I can make it is the driver.
00:47:03Like, how many people can I impact?
00:47:05How many?
00:47:06I still have never taken a paycheck from nudes.
00:47:08I don't, like, I don't, like, write.
00:47:10I don't get paid on payroll.
00:47:12Like, my creator business is where I make a living.
00:47:14And then nudes is, like, most of the money gets reinvested back in it or whatever.
00:47:18Like, however, it does really super well, obviously.
00:47:21But, like, I'm here to make an impact with it bigger than myself.
00:47:25Like, how do I get it outside of the audience I have?
00:47:27Because it's clearly resonating with the girl that follows me.
00:47:30And our repeat customer rate is, like, well over 80%, I want to say.
00:47:34So the girls just keep buying.
00:47:36And that's, in my opinion, and I think they would say this, too, attributed to how it makes them feel.
00:47:41Like, it makes them feel good about themselves.
00:47:43And that's what's important to me at the end of the day.
00:47:45There's so many t-shirts and clothing companies out there.
00:47:48What do you, tell me about nudes.
00:47:50Like, what did, like, you said you nitpicked everything.
00:47:52What does your clothes offer that other people don't?
00:47:54And what, like, that success, how did that come about?
00:47:57Yeah, so we launched with seven products, October 28th, 2022.
00:48:02So it's about two and a half years old.
00:48:04And I knew, again, nothing, I'm sorry, nothing about clothing companies or only what I had sold for other people.
00:48:11And you only are privy as a creator to some, like, not all the back end, obviously.
00:48:15I had vague ambiguity about units, but, like, not, no hard details, no hard numbers.
00:48:20And, again, I had never sold something that was, like, my own like that.
00:48:23At most, it was a collaboration with a brand, the closest, right?
00:48:27And so I knew, I was hopeful that there would be, like, some sort of traction because it was my own.
00:48:35But I never expected what happened.
00:48:37So, like, on launch day, we ordered 100, I remember it like it was yesterday.
00:48:40We ordered 100,000 units total, which I was like, crap.
00:48:44Like, I've never, that sounds like so many units.
00:48:47But when you're ordering clothing, you're ordering for, like, six months.
00:48:49Because, and I was like, I knew I wanted it to be a brand that stood outside of who I was.
00:48:54Like, I didn't just want it to be nudes, a merch line of Daryland Dinner.
00:48:57I did not ever want that from day one.
00:48:59So I had that foresight going into it.
00:49:01And so we did things bigger than what it was to start.
00:49:05I was like, I really want the initial campaign shoot to be big.
00:49:08We did it in New York City.
00:49:09It was, like, big budget.
00:49:10I wouldn't have spent the budget now knowing, but I had no experience.
00:49:12So, like, but I cared about everything.
00:49:14I cared about each model.
00:49:15I went and did the model go see.
00:49:17Like, which I didn't even know what the heck a go see was at the time.
00:49:19But, like, you go and you, like, they walk in and you can, like, handpick the models.
00:49:23And I really wanted people with relatable body types to these women that followed me.
00:49:28Like, I wasn't here to just make a clothing brand.
00:49:30I like to say, like, a lot of clothing brands feel cool.
00:49:34And I want nudes to always feel like a you can sit with us brand.
00:49:37Like, a very attainable, accessible, make you feel good.
00:49:44It can be yours, too, kind of brand.
00:49:46And I want that to my platform, too.
00:49:48But, like, it's an extension of me.
00:49:50I want it to be that way as a clothing brand.
00:49:52And I think that's why it's resonated.
00:49:54On launch day, out of the $100,000, we're like, we'll put $50,000 up for sale just so there's plenty on there.
00:50:00And then over the next course of the six months that these will last, we'll, like, release them so it's a brand.
00:50:05It's not so that foresight, like, carried through.
00:50:07Like, I didn't just want it to be, like, sell out on day one and we have nothing for another six months and then you don't really have a brand.
00:50:13Which I didn't think that was even possible, to be honest.
00:50:15That's, like, perfect.
00:50:15That's, like, a good problem to have.
00:50:16Yeah.
00:50:17I never thought that was going to happen.
00:50:18But the 50,000 units we put on the site sold out in seven minutes.
00:50:22All 50,000.
00:50:23And it was wild.
00:50:25I was, like, I never expected it to go there.
00:50:26I was hopeful it would last.
00:50:28I would have been shocked if it sold out in a few days.
00:50:31Like, just, I mean, that's a ton of units.
00:50:34Like, I was, like, and I was shocked.
00:50:37And so I was, like, holy cow, we have something huge here.
00:50:39Like, this is hitting.
00:50:41This is resonating with my community.
00:50:42How cool that we've made something that speaks this loudly to them.
00:50:46And so I was, like, how do I do it better?
00:50:48So the whole time, today, I'm reinventing.
00:50:50How do I do it better?
00:50:50So, like, I fit every piece of clothing on me.
00:50:53I nitpick it to high heaven.
00:50:55Every single piece.
00:50:56And it doesn't matter.
00:50:58Like, I like to compare nudes.
00:51:00There's been a few brands that I've had.
00:51:02And they're not, maybe they are.
00:51:04But they're not the ones that I would think most people latch onto as, like, the cool success stories.
00:51:10But I think as an entrepreneur, what I would emulate and the brands I look up to maybe are a little bit different.
00:51:17Like, I think Aloe's an incredible brand.
00:51:20Like, the yoga company.
00:51:21Aloe Yoga's a great company.
00:51:22Very different customer demographic.
00:51:24I feel like the reason nudes is doing so well is because I know my customers so well.
00:51:28And, like, that's not her.
00:51:30It's the coolest brand in the world.
00:51:31But she feels a little, like, outcasted by it.
00:51:33Like, you know, it's not something she'd feel comfortable dropping her kids off in school.
00:51:37Maybe her body is changing.
00:51:38Like, mine is, too.
00:51:39It's like a roller coaster of a season of life where you're, like, going through vulnerabilities you never even knew you had.
00:51:43And so I'm like, how do we meet her there?
00:51:45How do we meet me there?
00:51:46Like, literally, I'm there with you.
00:51:48Like, how do we meet me there?
00:51:49And so we are trying – the two companies that I look at that I feel, like, catered really well to middle America, most companies go, like, coastal first and then attract middle America.
00:52:01A lot of it – like, Aloe's a great example.
00:52:03Very cool on the coasts.
00:52:04And then now have created this amazing mass brand across all of America.
00:52:08But two that I really look up to are On Running and Viore.
00:52:12And I feel like there are two where I've seen, like, them attract middle America first.
00:52:18And then now they're, like, this mass, wildly successful, massive brand that you feel like came out of nowhere, but middle America's known about them for a long time.
00:52:26And I feel like nudes is everyday girl.
00:52:28Like, it is not your really cool – well, I think I would love to be her, too.
00:52:33Like, really cool California girl.
00:52:35Like, it's not her.
00:52:36It's just your everyday mom that represents the mass of majority of what that demographic looks like.
00:52:43And I think that's why it's hitting so hard because a lot of brands are focusing on this, like, cool concept.
00:52:48We're focusing on where is she at right now and what does she actually want and what does she need today.
00:52:53And me knowing her so well, me being her, I think, has – is what has translated to nudes success because no one's speaking directly to her like that.
00:53:04And giving her ease, accessibility, confidence, meeting her where she is, like, that's all I care to do.
00:53:10And so that's what I'm here for.
00:53:12And I think, like, that's why it's been successful.
00:53:15How did you build that message?
00:53:16Like, especially when you said you sold out in seven minutes, 50,000 units, what was your playbook?
00:53:20How did you start advertising, marketing to your community with that?
00:53:23Yeah, that's a good question.
00:53:24I mean, it was – granted, it wasn't as schematic as it could have been.
00:53:31It kind of was like I'd never done it before, so I just, like, tried something.
00:53:34I didn't have, like, this mass business plan blueprint of how I should do it.
00:53:38But I kind of – I often go with my gut.
00:53:40So we didn't announce it until a month before it launched.
00:53:44You did it just on your social media?
00:53:46Yeah, social media.
00:53:47So I created, obviously, a brand account.
00:53:50We ran into hiccups that I'd never run into, like, trademark stuff and, like, pre-thankfully launching it.
00:53:57Felt like – so we had finally come up with a brand name, finally come up with all these things.
00:54:01And so, like, I created these accounts, and we made it.
00:54:04And then I launched it as – I believe it was a collaborative post.
00:54:08I don't even know if that was a thing at the time.
00:54:09I can't remember if I, like, just posted on Nude's account and then shared it to mine or if it was collaborative.
00:54:15But it was about a month before.
00:54:16I'm a big believer in, like, hype online is short.
00:54:20Okay.
00:54:21Like, hate is short in the scheme.
00:54:23Feels long.
00:54:24But hype is short, too.
00:54:25So you can't have that big of an opening.
00:54:27I don't think so.
00:54:30Two weeks is a long time on social media.
00:54:32And so a month felt like – I knew it was big, so I knew I needed to do the education and the – and I wanted to do the education and the backstory and give myself an opportunity to, like, tell the story and the why of why I'm doing this, what it is, why it's serving the audience that I created it for.
00:54:47But it was really my passion project.
00:54:49It was not set – while I'm not surprised that it's a $100 million business today, that wasn't, like – it started as my passion project.
00:54:57It did not start for me to be like, how can I create a $100 million business?
00:55:00It was not.
00:55:01That never was how it started.
00:55:03And I think today, while I do believe one day, seeing people like Haley Bieber sell stuff for a billion dollars, I'm like, I'm a big believer in seeing other people's success should not make you jealous.
00:55:13It should make you excited.
00:55:14Like, every time I see it, I'm like, that is so cool.
00:55:16Like, it opens the door of validation for me that it can be done.
00:55:19And if she can do it, I can do it.
00:55:21And so I think that seeing people online through that lens of, like, me seeing that just gave me validation of, like, okay, today now, now knowing what it is, I do think it can get there.
00:55:31I do think it will get there.
00:55:32I, like, I have no doubts.
00:55:34But how we get there, I think I'm learning still, too.
00:55:36Like, I didn't know what I was doing then.
00:55:37So I started posting a month before.
00:55:40I, like, slowly rolled things out.
00:55:42I did it on my personal channel.
00:55:43I, again, was really intentional that it didn't feel like a merch brand.
00:55:46So I, like, started its own platform.
00:55:49I think it amassed, like, 100,000 followers at announcement.
00:55:53It was obvious that people were excited about it from the beginning.
00:55:55That's a big jump right there.
00:55:57Yeah.
00:55:57So I think within 24 hours, it had 100,000 followers and just of announcement, like, a month before.
00:56:03And so I was like, okay, people are excited about this.
00:56:05This is going to be awesome.
00:56:07Now deliver on it, which delivering on it was never a question.
00:56:10I had been trying to deliver on it since a year before that.
00:56:13Just nobody knew about it.
00:56:14But I, again, didn't talk about it because I felt like the hype window is short.
00:56:20I am excited.
00:56:21That's my personality, too.
00:56:22I'm excited about something for a minute, but then I, like, move on to something else, you know?
00:56:25I think I gave it a month.
00:56:26I think that was the right timing.
00:56:27I would do that again.
00:56:29And so now we're a drop-based model.
00:56:31That wasn't even intentional either, but we drop things weekly.
00:56:34And I think because our returning customer rate is so high, we have a lot of girls shopping all the time.
00:56:38And I'm able to, like, innovate and do fun new things every other week at least.
00:56:44And so being able to do that is really fun.
00:56:47And so that's where I sit.
00:56:48How big is the company now?
00:56:49You said you've done over 100 million sales in two years.
00:56:52Two years.
00:56:53How many employees do you have?
00:56:54That's a great question.
00:56:54I think in the 30s.
00:56:56Okay.
00:56:56Uh-huh.
00:56:57Is it based in Dallas with you guys?
00:56:58It's based in Dallas.
00:56:59We actually have an office in New York City.
00:57:00Our design and production team is there.
00:57:02My goal is to get that in Dallas.
00:57:03I think there's so much win in collaborating in a room together.
00:57:08I think that got lost in COVID.
00:57:09Call me so old school, but I love getting people under the same roof.
00:57:13And, like, I feel like that's where our best ideas come from.
00:57:16The minute I can get us all in a room, I'm like, we come up with way better ideas than we do apart.
00:57:21And so my goal would be to have it all under one roof in Dallas.
00:57:25But right now it's split.
00:57:25So marketing, logistics, tech, e-com, finance, all that in Dallas.
00:57:33And then design and production right now is in New York.
00:57:35How do you juggle it all?
00:57:35I mean, are you running nudes yourself?
00:57:39My husband runs nudes.
00:57:41Okay.
00:57:41I was going to say, like, being a creator, a full-time job, you have a big family, and then you're running a $100 million.
00:57:46I have help.
00:57:47A lot of help.
00:57:48Yes.
00:57:49Yeah.
00:57:49So I think that—
00:57:51But your husband's running the business of nudes?
00:57:52My husband acts more like a CEO of nudes.
00:57:55Okay.
00:57:55I think technically today we're evaluating that.
00:57:58I mean, you're getting, like, off the cuff with me.
00:58:00Okay.
00:58:00But I'm technically the CEO and creative director of nudes.
00:58:04Where I thrive is in the creative direction and in the, like, what does the customer want?
00:58:09That is where I know her so—like, I can—I don't want to act like I know everything about her.
00:58:14But, like, I feel like from the 10 years I've done this, I've gotten a pulse on who she is and what she wants so well that that's where I don't want to be replaced in the business.
00:58:22That is where I feel like I am most valuable, adding the most value.
00:58:25And it's really curbing it as to how I can do that full-time rather than being distracted by different things.
00:58:30So my husband really acts as, like, the CEO of, like, business—like, running the business.
00:58:35What's really cool is we have a really—I mentioned my family.
00:58:38We have a really tight-knit family.
00:58:39My brother is a COO.
00:58:41So he does all of the tech, all of the e-com, all of the logistics.
00:58:45And he's extremely smart and great with Excel, which neither of us are.
00:58:48Okay.
00:58:48And so it's really valuable to have someone like that on your team.
00:58:52And so the three of us run it together.
00:58:54I have a big question.
00:58:55You mentioned, you know, a superpower of yours is really understanding your community, understanding your followers, 2 million folks that are obviously very different.
00:59:03How do you think you have insight into what they want?
00:59:07Is it like you said you're a gut person?
00:59:10You said you're gut, but also is it in comments?
00:59:12Is it in data?
00:59:13Like, how do you know your community so well?
00:59:15So going back to that 2019 phase where I decided, like, I changed my platform essentially.
00:59:20Like, I went from this curated fashion blog to a lifestyle—what we know today as a lifestyle creator.
00:59:25I didn't—that wasn't a known term then, but that's exactly what I did.
00:59:29I pivoted from fashion blog to lifestyle creator.
00:59:32In that time when I was kind of in my DMs a lot because I was, like, nervous making this shift.
00:59:39Like, I was concerned about what was going on.
00:59:42I also knew that I shifted to now being, like, this mom that they could relate to.
00:59:47I knew that.
00:59:48So every single night—I'm not joking you—every single night, my husband and I would stay up as late as it took, him and I side by side, in bed.
00:59:55We had no kids at the time, obviously.
00:59:57And most nights, it was until at least 2.30 in the morning, I responded to every single DM I got.
01:00:02I get upwards of 5,000 DMs a day.
01:00:04Wow.
01:00:04So at that time, it was about 2,000 to 3,000 a day.
01:00:07Every day, I answered every single message.
01:00:09Not one got outsourced.
01:00:13It was him and I sitting—him asking me next, because I couldn't type two at once, so we could do two at once.
01:00:18Him asking me what to say, me responding to one, him typing out my other one, two at a time, like, as fast as we could.
01:00:25And it wasn't outsourced at all.
01:00:27I didn't hand it off to anyone.
01:00:28And I think talking to her for so long—I did that for probably a year until I had a child.
01:00:36So I think—
01:00:37That's a big commitment.
01:00:38Yeah.
01:00:38But it was really about her at the end of the day and, like, understanding her, connecting with her.
01:00:44What does she want?
01:00:45Who is she?
01:00:46What does she like?
01:00:47I care about her.
01:00:49And so that—I didn't know it then.
01:00:52That is exactly why I have a good pulse on her today.
01:00:56Exactly why.
01:00:56I had no idea that's why I was doing it.
01:00:58I was doing it to, like, kind of watch my transition, A, see how it was going, gauge how it was going.
01:01:05Little did I know I was setting it up for exactly what I needed to know today.
01:01:09Like, I was pulsing her, knowing her, learning her so well that, like, now we can be as impactful as we are because I laid that foundation.
01:01:17I didn't know I was doing it at the time, but that's why.
01:01:19That's wild.
01:01:20I love that.
01:01:20Yeah, it's really cool.
01:01:21I want to end on a business note.
01:01:24Let's do it.
01:01:24Again, you dove into building nudes, building a brand.
01:01:28Yeah.
01:01:28And you said you learned by doing, experimenting, going ahead.
01:01:32What is your—for anyone out there who wants—for any creator out there who wants to start a brand or a brand that wants to start a creator-backed product, what's your playbook?
01:01:42What's your advice?
01:01:42Okay.
01:01:43Forward motion is forward motion is what I always say.
01:01:45So, I don't know what I'm doing half the time, 90% of the time.
01:01:49I've never done this.
01:01:49I've never forged it.
01:01:50Forward motion is forward motion.
01:01:51So, like, I often think that—I get messages all the time from people like, hey, I want to start a blog or I want to start an Instagram—I'm not a blog anymore.
01:01:59I want to start an Instagram account.
01:02:01I want to do what you do.
01:02:02So, I think two things.
01:02:03A, money can never be the driver.
01:02:05Like, I think if money is the driver, like, if you're—if I get an email—I'm not trying to be rude at all, but if I get an email from a girl that's like, I really want to make money to do this.
01:02:13I'm like, you counted yourself out right from the beginning.
01:02:17The most successful people, in my opinion, are the people who have a passion for it and love it.
01:02:20Money is a side effect.
01:02:22Like, I mean, it's great money.
01:02:23I'm not acting like it's not.
01:02:24But, like, it's—the people who make the greatest amount of money in this, in my opinion, are the people who do it out of a passion and a love for it.
01:02:32That shows up.
01:02:33Like, I've seen it time and time again.
01:02:35So, I think, like, really loving—figuring out what you love to do, doing that.
01:02:40And then I think, like, with a creator-backed business, a lot of times I think research, doing research, that's, like, a big thing.
01:02:48I do it, too.
01:02:49But I notice it even in myself a lot that doing research is disguised procrastination.
01:02:54And so I think nothing can, like—and, like, meditation, I know that's a big thing.
01:02:59Thinking about something is not as effective as putting one foot—like, moving your foot.
01:03:03Like, so I think forward motion is forward motion.
01:03:05Do it.
01:03:06If you want to try it, do it.
01:03:07Like, it is—I think embarrassment is the cost of entry.
01:03:10Like, at the beginning, like, if I wanted to continue what I was doing, embarrassment was the cost of entry, and I had to just show up and do it.
01:03:16And so I think that nobody can take away consistency.
01:03:20You can't beat up somebody who doesn't quit.
01:03:23Like, if you want to do it and you have a passion for it, try it.
01:03:26Like, what is it going to be?
01:03:28Embarrassment?
01:03:29Like, truly, probably embarrassment.
01:03:32But it can't—if you're passionate about it, it's going to work.
01:03:35Like, if your intention is that strong, it's going to happen for you.
01:03:38Like, I think if somebody wants to be a creator, I don't care how saturated it is.
01:03:43You absolutely can do it.
01:03:44Like, if you want to start a business, you can do it.
01:03:47What people can't take away from you is forward motion and actually putting one foot in front of the other.
01:03:52And, like, do the—do all—I'm here for it.
01:03:54Like, do all the research you can.
01:03:55I do, too.
01:03:56Like, I don't want to go into something stupid.
01:03:59But, like, the person who's going to win is the person who's consistent and does it anyways and steps out and just tries and puts themselves out there for embarrassment.
01:04:07And so I'd encourage anybody to do it.
01:04:09If you want it and your intention is that strong, you'll get it.
01:04:12You'll get it.
01:04:13And I think it's cool.
01:04:14That's a perfect spot to end.
01:04:15Okay, good.
01:04:16Thanks for joining us.
01:04:17Thanks for having me.
01:04:18Daryl and Denner, thank you for joining the Forbes Top Creators Show.
01:04:21Thanks for having me.
01:04:21Terrific.
01:04:22We'll see you next time.
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