- 6 months ago
Brussels, my love? Can a 'drone wall' stop Putin?
In this edition, we discuss the EU proposal for a 'drone wall' of detection and interception systems & zoom in on the ongoing anti government protests in Serbia.
READ MORE : http://www.euronews.com/2025/10/04/brussels-my-love-will-a-drone-wall-protect-europe
Subscribe to our channel. Euronews is available on Dailymotion in 12 languages
In this edition, we discuss the EU proposal for a 'drone wall' of detection and interception systems & zoom in on the ongoing anti government protests in Serbia.
READ MORE : http://www.euronews.com/2025/10/04/brussels-my-love-will-a-drone-wall-protect-europe
Subscribe to our channel. Euronews is available on Dailymotion in 12 languages
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NewsTranscript
00:00Hello there and welcome to Brussels, my love, our weekly European politics show here on
00:18Euronews. I'm Maeve McMahon. Thank you so much for tuning in. Coming up this week, EU
00:24heads of state met in Copenhagen to ponder the prohibitions of Vladimir Putin and the
00:30inaction of Donald Trump to stop the war in Ukraine. Setting the tone for their summit,
00:36unidentified drones in Danish airspace, meaning the country had to ban all civilian drones for
00:42security purposes. This comes days after a massive cyber attack disrupted thousands of European
00:47flights. What's going on? Are hybrid attacks the new norm now and will a European drone wall stop
00:53them? And we need to talk about Serbia. For months now, hundreds of thousands of Serbs have been
00:59taking to the streets to complain about the rule of law in their country. Some even cycled to Brussels
01:05from Belgrade to tell lawmakers here about the alleged corruption and cronyism in President
01:11Alexander Wurczos' government. An aspiring EU country since 2009, we're taking a look at the
01:17situation that the president says is under control and asking why the European Union has been so
01:23silent. A warm welcome to our guests this weekend. Danica Béachan, political scientist from Ireland
01:28and author of Unfinished Empire. Ilke Togur, director of the Global Policy Centre at IE University.
01:35And Matthew Robinson, the director of the Eurogulf Information Centre. Lovely to have you all with
01:40us, but of course as usual, before we bring in your analysis, let's just hear what exactly was
01:45on EU leaders' minds as they met last Wednesday in Denmark.
01:53First, it was Poland. Then Romania. Then Estonia. EU countries that reported incursions of Russian
02:01drones or fighter jets into their respective airspaces just last month.
02:09Europe is realizing that Russian aggression may not be restricted to Ukraine.
02:14Ukraine. So how to respond?
02:24Since the Polish incursion, NATO activated its air defense systems. But to some, that felt like
02:30shooting with cannons at pigeons. Or in modern terms, firing a 5 million Euro rocket at a 10.000 Euro drone.
02:38That's why Brussels wants a wall of drones to respond rapidly to any Russian incursion.
02:52Is Moscow testing Europe's resolve? Does that mean a military confrontation is becoming more likely?
03:01So there you have it. This was the tone setting the scene for EU leaders in Denmark this week.
03:13Special air defenses were deployed from France, from Sweden, from Germany and British militaries
03:17to ensure the security, Matthew.
03:19I think the concept of drone wall is welcome. But security isn't simply a wall. It's a wider network.
03:28A network in which NATO must underpin Europe's broader security.
03:34And I think this is an opportunity that Europe can get smarter on procurement and try and modernize
03:44aspects of its own defense. But there is precedent for this. If you look back to Warsaw 2016, Brussels 2021,
03:55NATO have made clear that hybrid threats like we're seeing from Russia can warrant a robust response,
04:02dare I say, even the triggering of Article 5. No one wants to see it get that tough.
04:11But we must impact that at a cost to Russia's actions.
04:17Let's bring you in there, because obviously for our viewers, looking at those images,
04:20they could be sitting at home quite alarmed. Have we reached a turning point now, do you think,
04:24since the full-scale invasion of the Ukraine virus?
04:26Well, the full-scale invasion was the turning point. What's remarkable is that it's taken almost four years
04:30of the full-scale invasion until there's been rather modest drone incursions into parts of Europe.
04:35I mean, it's a fraction of what Ukraine endures every single night. And in that respect,
04:40Ukraine is both a shield for Europe, but it's also a teacher, because who has the best expertise
04:45when it comes to fighting off drones? It's Ukraine. And Ukraine has offered its expertise
04:48rather than reverse. The EU should be offering its assistance to Ukraine. Ukraine is saying,
04:52we can help you, Europe, to fend off these drone attacks.
04:56And indeed, that was as well what the European Commissioner for Defence was saying,
05:00Andriy Vyskoubiles. We have a lot to learn from our Ukrainian friends. What's your take on all this
05:04kind of EU summit taking place in this context? Ilka?
05:07I think this is definitely a new endeavour for the European Union. And I think this is also the moment
05:14for this discussion on how we will coexist with Russia and Russian hybrid war tactics all around
05:22the European eastern flank. Are we going to manage this? Is this going to be getting more and more
05:27boldened? I think this was the main discussion in Copenhagen this week.
05:32And we saw a couple of weeks ago those cyber attacks that shut down airports here in Brussels,
05:36London, Dublin, impacting so many travellers. Are we ready to handle these threats?
05:40No, we're not ready. And the problem is, of course, is that dictatorships have huge advantages
05:45over democracies when it comes to this type of behaviour. You know, North Korea has been able
05:49to supply, for example, Russia with more ammunition than the EU has supplied Ukraine. And similarly,
05:55when it comes to focusing on a military industrial complex and, you know, cyber warfare and hybrid
05:59warfare, most European electorates quite naturally want to spend that money on housing, on health and
06:03education. And therefore, it's very difficult for democracies to act in unison in their own self
06:08interest because they're not really geared for that kind of action.
06:11And that's why there's a big debate now as well between Brussels and the member states who should
06:14take charge as well of this drone wall. But I also wanted to bring in the voice of an Estonian MEP
06:20because this week, in fact, a number of MEPs are in Estonia taking a look at the Estonian-Russian
06:25border and the threats. For a local view, we spoke to Riho Terhas, Estonian MEP, who thinks that the
06:30recent drone incursions and border violations are signs that Russia is getting nervous and wants to take
06:35the focus away from Ukraine.
06:38These violations of airspace with the drones or with the airplanes and other different terrorist
06:47attacks throughout European Union are meant to be there to scare the people, to divide our societies,
06:55to cause turbulences and mistrust. So it is one tool in the toolbox of Putin's weapons. And we need to
07:07take it seriously. It is not just some accidents. It is a systematic behavior of Russia. This is all
07:16very new and we need to work out a common solution. And we can call it a drone wall if we want, but we
07:24need to do something together. This is not possible if only some of us will deal with it.
07:30So Riho Terhas, they're not mincing his words. He's also a former army general, by the way. Can
07:35someone tell me, though, how this drone wall would actually look like?
07:39Well, it's still in its embryonic stages and there's no consensus on that. I mean, for example,
07:45people often talk about an iron dome type of thing that could protect. But, you know, Israel is so
07:49small. That's why it's so effective. Europe is so large. And of course, the frontier with Russia is so
07:54large. So some people like Boris Pistorius is, for example, the German defence minister is saying
07:58that this will take years.
08:00It'll take four years, he said. But Andreas Kubilus, the defence commissioner, said it would
08:03take about a year. So who's right? I'm wondering. One thing is clear, Matthew, the Baltic states have
08:08been calling for this drone wall for years.
08:10Yes, and rightly so. The Kremlin here is not necessarily testing Europe's borders. It's testing
08:16European cohesion. It's testing European unity. And that's why a common European response
08:23is underpinned by NATO. But virtue of this drone wall is important. But it shouldn't stop there. We
08:31need to get tougher as it relates to attacks on our critical infrastructure from Russia. We need to
08:38go further and faster with asset freezes, visa sanctions. Europe, there are far more levers in
08:45Europe beyond the most recent drone wall strategy. I think we should get tougher. Even looking at energy,
08:52I think we can do more to sanction Russian energy. There are far more tools still left
08:58in Europe's arsenal to hit Kremlin where it hurts. And we hurt them the most when Europe is
09:06cohesive and united. And right now, we have not been nearly as much as we could be.
09:12And we're on the 19th package now of sanctions. It's being discussed. If we're on the 19th package,
09:16it means the previous 18 haven't worked? Okay. I think they have worked, but there were always
09:20room to amplify and hit harder. And for me, one of the reasons behind these new provocations in the
09:29EU territory is also to create trade-offs. Because if they create a sense of fragility in the European
09:36soil, maybe European governments, member states will question if they should keep their anti-missile
09:42defense systems at home, rather than sending them out to Ukraine. So this is actually not only just
09:48creating divisions and creating fear on European citizens, but also creating trade-offs for the
09:56weapon systems and all the aid that is going to Ukraine. So actually, for Russia, this is kind of
10:01two birds with one stone.
10:03And this week, Danika, they're also discussing this 2030 readiness strategy so that we can turn
10:08from an economic power into a military might. How would that work? Talk us through that.
10:12Well, it's very difficult to see right now, because Europe has traditionally been a pair,
10:16not a player. And it's always struggled to be a geopolitical actor. And that's one of the reasons
10:20why it's been easy for Russia, relatively easy, to divide and rule. And only when, you know,
10:26and we've heard, for example, Emmanuel Macron talk about Europe ceasing to be a herbivore and
10:31becoming an omnivore, that, you know, it's a dangerous world out there. And we can't pretend that it's not.
10:36And, you know, we have to prepare our electorates for that.
10:38But how do you get Russia to the negotiation table?
10:40The question about Russia is way more complicated. But just going back to the topic on how to change
10:45the EU's mind, I personally think that we have been still living through the extension period of
10:52the 20th century European Union, when globalization worked, when the international relations were based
10:58on efficiency, not on security. And the European Union was designed that way. Now we are in the 21st
11:04century trying to reframe an institution, a supernational institution, so that it works according to the
11:11rules right now.
11:13I'd say Russia quite often entertains theatrics. We saw Lavrov walk out at the UN General Assembly while the
11:21British Foreign Secretary was making remarks. They love stunts like that. But if we really want Russia to come to
11:27the table, we need to double down on our relationship with our American friends and partners, the Trump
11:33administration, Putin and Trump, whether we like it or not, in Europe, have some form of a dialogue.
11:41We saw it in Alaska. We need to encourage the Trump administration to keep to try and try and build on
11:48that. Otherwise, I think there is no hope that we can get Putin and the Kremlin.
11:52And relations have improved between Brussels and DC. I think, you know, Donald Trump does occasionally
11:56pick up the phone and call Commission President Ursula von der Leyen.
11:59He does occasionally, but he is usually at the mercy of the last person he spoke to. And he's
12:04temperamentally, I think it's quite clear, he's much more in common with Vladimir Putin. I mean,
12:08he is a man after all, who talked about Canada becoming the 51st state of taking back Panama,
12:12of annexing Greenland. This is, you know, music to someone like Vladimir Putin's ear who understands that
12:16kind of talk. But I think Ilke made a very good point about how times have changed and quite
12:21rapidly. I mean, you know, in the last 30 years, remember 30 years ago, we were celebrating democracy
12:26in Eastern Europe and kind of the future, the end of history, that the tide of history was moving
12:32towards democracy. Now we're talking in very different apocalyptic terms that instead of
12:36autocracies democratising, democracies are autocratising. And we've seen that with Trump's
12:41US. We've seen it with, you know, countries within the European Union. And therefore,
12:45it's not only external enemies we have to worry about, it's the cancer of authoritarianism developing
12:49within the European landmass. But are we up for this challenge? I mean, we've been divided for so
12:54long. Can they take decisions fast, like in Copenhagen this week? I think that the EU has all the tools
13:00to change its working structure. It's not going to be easy, clearly. But I think the point about
13:05democracies and authoritarianism is really the key here. Because what we have seen that the
13:11emboldening of Russia that we have seen has happened actually after Alaska and after that
13:16show in China. So there's literally a connection between this anti-rule of law, anti-territorial
13:23integrity, anti-democracy movements all around the world, and connecting very well to Russian full-scale
13:30invasion in Ukraine. So I think Europe, as this still working supranational institution,
13:39has very much many, many things to offer. And I was recently actually in Canada,
13:44and the Canadians were looking to Europe in this regard, by the way, they really wanted to have this
13:48conversation about democratic resiliency on and how to keep at least some kind of multilateralism on
13:56track. I'd say it's also a political imperative for von der Leyen. Her commission leadership hasn't
14:02exactly been the strongest at home as it relates to the single market and the economy. This is where
14:08she can make her mark as it relates to Europe's collective defence. We're looking at now a couple
14:16of years left of this commission. This could be the von der Leyen legacy. If it's not this, it certainly won't
14:22be as it relates to the economy. Well, she has suggested this 140 billion euro interest-free
14:27loans for Ukraine that she's trying to use from Russian immobilised central bank assets. How would
14:32that work? Well, it's controversial because the Belgians are particularly sensitive on this issue.
14:41Yes. And, you know, it's, as I understand it, what will happen is that this will be a loan to Ukraine
14:47that they would pay back on condition that Russia pays for the damage that's caused, which I think is a
14:52very unlikely event. So I think that since that's probably not going to happen, it will be a free
14:57loan so as it was to Ukraine. What's your take on that?
15:02Ultimately, I mean, Europe needs to leverage tools like that and any loan system like that
15:14needs to act as robustly as it can. But it's getting the backing now of Friedrich
15:19maths and others. I think it's a very smart thing to do. No, you give interest-free loans to Ukraine
15:25at war and then condition it to the end of the war and paying repairals. So it's like you are just
15:33creating more incentives for Russia to consider ending the war. But again, of course, this is a
15:39very complicated issue. Belgium, since the money is in Belgian banks, it's not necessarily going to be
15:45easy, but this has been discussed for a really long time. And I think at last the Europeans are
15:50ready to move forward.
15:51And just going back to this blueprint or this readiness plan for 2030, you know, how will that
15:56impact people's lives, viewers here? I mean, we're seeing already many European societies militarising,
16:02pulling back conscription for young people. How will we see this continent change in the next few years?
16:08Well, we've seen, importantly, member states start to link defence spending with economic
16:15growth, which I think is a balanced way to do it. We've seen it in the UK, we've seen it across the
16:19board. And this is where the Trump administration, both in one and second term, have pushed the NATO
16:25partners to try and meet its defence spending commitments. It means spending more on defence,
16:31but ultimately the number one responsibility of any member state is the security of its citizens. So I
16:37think we need to see gradual and sustained increases in defence spending. The best way we can do that
16:42is linked to steady economic growth.
16:44But in your home country, Ireland's not in NATO. It's spending a tiny little bit on its defence.
16:49That's it. And there's a real division within Europe between those who feel that they have real
16:54skin in the game here. They tend to be closer to Ukraine geographically. And the further west you go,
16:59they feel that it doesn't impinge on them as much. But this is a collective problem. And we have
17:03collective obligations as EU members. So irrespective of whether one recognises them or not, the problems
17:08still exist.
17:09And over in Spain, where you're based, are people still concerned about the situation in Ukraine
17:13or are there mines elsewhere?
17:14I think they are very, very, very worried in Spain. And I think that the wider that the war is,
17:22the wider the knowledge about the security situation. But in Spain, they're actually really
17:27good, in my opinion, two points about this debate. First, make sure that we are investing and
17:34spending more, better and together. So this is an investment in further European security moving
17:41forward. We are not just putting money in buying weaponry elsewhere without developing our industries
17:47at home. And this is a very one clear argument by the government. And secondly, the link between the
17:53investments in defence industry and the prosperity at home. You cannot create trade offs here. You
17:59cannot make this for the citizens, either housing or weapons. If you convert this discussion to that,
18:07it's it's it's doomed to fail. But then if you link security and prosperity, the main two goals of
18:13any government or an explanation institution, then you will guarantee support in European societies.
18:19It's a hard sell, though. I mean, as a politician. Yeah. NATO need to set set these targets and where
18:25the member states can step up as relates to procurement, they can. But the Europe can do more
18:31from a cost efficiency standpoint to try and club together on defence procurement. That's something
18:39Europe has lagged time and time again behind and it could do far more. And we'll, of course,
18:44be leaning on Ukrainians as well to help. We will, because they are the world leaders in this kind
18:50of warfare. Unfortunately for them, of course, it was because of an invasion imposed upon them. But
18:54yeah, they are the specialists now. And I think they're holding out the hand of expertise to Europe
18:59in that respect. Because more, Matthew, could have been done in the past to end this war much quicker,
19:03right? Yeah. Well, I go back to I think we could have done so much early as it relates to sanctions on
19:09Russia. So many people at the heart of the Kremlin can still walk and travel free in Europe just
19:17because we block flights and air spaces closed has not acted as a deterrent for those closest to
19:23Putin's circle to be able to study at some of Europe's best universities, shop in some of our most
19:29luxurious high streets. I think Europe could look to visa bans for Russian citizens if it really wanted
19:36to disqueeze. If you want to put pressure on Putin, make it more difficult for the oligarchs that
19:42surround and support him to be able to access some of Europe's best academic institutions and some of
19:49our most luxurious cities. That's how you hit Putin. You'd agree with that? Yeah. I think the Europeans
19:57cannot necessarily control the Russian president, but they can control what they are deciding on and how
20:02they are strengthening the European security and at the same time European economies so that solving the
20:09world that Europe is ready to fight as long as it takes and help Ukraine fight as long as it takes.
20:16And in my opinion, in the meantime, the partnerships dossier is equally important. Europe should look for
20:22allies elsewhere because they cannot just win positioning itself as anti Russia in the continent. I think
20:29there's a broader consensus needed to end this war and then Europeans should also work on partnerships
20:34elsewhere. I think it's also maybe important to emphasize the positive because we can tend to
20:38focus on the challenges and negatives, which are very real. But, you know, they're in the neighborhood.
20:42There is a queue of countries who want to join the European Union. It's still considered an oasis of peace
20:46and prosperity and stability. And we only had the recent elections in Moldova where you had a clear cut
20:51choice between, you know, a relationship that was closer to the Kremlin or moving towards Europe. And now for the
20:57fourth consecutive election and a referendum, the Moldovan people have said, we want to be part
21:01of Europe. That's very important. Of course, it's also important for Ukrainians. It's the dream of
21:06Ukrainians to join the European Union. Euromaidan in 2014, that's how it all started when the first
21:11indications were that they were being pulled back towards Moscow. So Europe still has, you know,
21:16soft power, but it's all about, as we've been discussing, developing some hard power as well.
21:19Absolutely fascinating. Well, on that point, we can bring this conversation to a close.
21:23Thank you so much to our panelists. And of course, for more outcomes on that meeting in Copenhagen,
21:28you can visit euronews.com or download our app. Stay with us though here, because soon we will be
21:33back to hear why Serbian students were on the streets of Brussels this weekend, calling for the
21:38resignation of President Vucic, who's been in power since 2017.
21:50Welcome back to Brussels, my love, our weekly European politics show with me, Maeve McMahon.
21:56Now, last weekend, Serbia caught our eye with their large scale military parade with more than 10,000
22:02troops. The aspiring EU country of around 6 million people showed off rocket launchers from
22:08Israel, drones from the United Arab Emirates, tanks on loan from Russia and anti-aircraft systems from
22:14China. Hundreds of university students and opposition groups who have been staging anti-corruption
22:20protests for 10 months were allegedly prevented by riot police from watching the parade. President
22:25Vucic, in power for 13 years, has also refused to hold early parliamentary elections, a key demand
22:32of his critics. So I'm curious to hear if the panel have been following the situation in Serbia,
22:36and what are your thoughts on it? I think what we are seeing right now is the emboldening of
22:41bureaucratic governments in Europe due to the moment that we are going in, and clearly the MAGA
22:49movement in the United States, Make America Great Again, is providing a playbook on many different
22:55aspects. And is Serbia then still eligible for EU membership? That's the question. It certainly doesn't
23:01seem to share the core values of the EU, and it has been moving progressively away. You mentioned
23:06that army military parade, very impressive, 10,000 troops. You have to ask yourself, who are they
23:11intending to fight against? The worry is, is that it's their own people who've been mobilizing in
23:15unprecedented numbers. And there's a very, you know, dangerous precedent, perhaps, or inspiring,
23:19depending on which perspective you have, of the bulldozer revolution, which led to the ousting of
23:23Milosevic. And of course, Vucic was in his cabinet. He saw it firsthand. It certainly must send shivers down
23:28his spines thinking about it. Well, Aleksandar Rucic, the president, called the protesters terrorists.
23:33Well, I think stability without the rule of law is a cul-de-sac. And if Serbia wants to be serious
23:40about EU membership, at some point in the future, it has to get serious on EU standards, media freedom,
23:50police accountability, and fair elections. These are all fair benchmarks. And time and time,
23:57I think you're absolutely right to see you've seen this emboldened, autocratic, emboldening,
24:01MAGA-style governance. And all it is doing, it is posturing Serbia further to the east. It can,
24:10on one hand, look to Europe with it out west with its hand open while clenching its fist to the east.
24:20They can play both sides as it relates to Europe is right to hold Serbia to a high standard,
24:26especially as it relates to media freedom and police accountability. Thuggery should be
24:31a zero tolerance issue as it relates to...
24:35Well, we did see Aleksandar Rucic, the president, in New York last week. He was speaking to the press
24:39and told them that the protests were over and the country had, quote, moved on. We wanted to find
24:43out if that was true. So we spoke to some Brussels-based Serbians. Take a look.
24:47I was there two weeks ago in Serbia on the ground protesting. So I can surely say that protests are
24:56still going on. The situation is dire because the violence and the repression got a bit higher than
25:03before. Or I can even say a lot higher than before. And the problem is there is a background of this kind
25:08of neocolonial approach that some people in Serbia feel that Europe is actually looking at Serbia like
25:13that, especially regarding the lithium mines and gold mines in the western part of Serbia. What
25:20people do expect from Europe, in a way to do, at least cuts a lot of fundings because the fundings
25:27that the current regime is getting from the European Union is keeping it still in power.
25:32Dragana Radanovic and Milos Sitarika there. Why on earth is the EU then turning a blind eye?
25:39I think the EU is not necessarily turning a blind eye, but it doesn't want to create the
25:46divisions in between candidate countries because enlargement is very, very at the table, of course,
25:52clearly for Moldova and Ukraine. But they don't want to signal to the western Balkans that the
25:58eastern association trio is moving forward, with the exception of Georgia, while the Balkans are
26:04are pressured. It is not necessarily very easy to punish the government while still giving the
26:11citizens that are processing on the streets a ray of hope for future EU membership. So the EU is
26:16trying to balance that.
26:17And of course, Serbia has been trying to prepare to enter the single market for over a decade now.
26:21Of course, Ursula von der Leyen, the Commission President, she was in Belgrade a couple of months
26:25ago and she praised the significant progress, but MEPs were furious. They sent a letter criticising
26:30her comments.
26:31Yeah, it's always difficult because the fear is that if you push Serbia too hard, you push it
26:36further towards Russia and its allies. You give it less incentives to modify its kind of authoritarian
26:43form of rule. And you've seen similar dilemmas when dealing with countries like Georgia, for example,
26:47where you want to signal to the people that, yes, the aspiration for EU membership is still alive,
26:53while trying, you know, in a very moderate fashion to punish is perhaps too strong, but to signal
26:59distaste with some of the methods that have been used by the government.
27:02There are serious concerns and there has been foreign policy drift. I think Europe hasn't done
27:09enough to confront Serbia's flirtation with Moscow and Beijing. And that gets before a raft of domestic
27:17issues. There's big issues with prosecutorial independence as it relates to their judiciary.
27:24We've already covered media freedom. Europe needs to be tough on it. It can talk tough to the Serbian
27:33government without closing the door on enlargement
27:37government hopes. It sets a dangerous precedent from a European, from a European standpoint,
27:45to ignore serious breaches as it relates. And you mentioned press freedom, of course,
27:50a topic very close to our heart here. According to Reporters Without Borders, the country is 96th
27:55in terms of press freedom. Very low. Yeah, definitely. The press freedom is one of the first things that
28:00the autocrats take away because they know that they don't want people to know. And actually,
28:04here is a very dangerous populist nationals global movement is being shaped as military parades,
28:12all these anti-democratic practices, limiting press freedom, everything related to the LGBTQI rights.
28:19There is a really big tendency out there. And I think from the European point of view,
28:24this should receive way more attention, both for the member states and candidate countries alike.
28:29What worries me as well is the way that the regime have tried to characterize any
28:34form of opposition. This is also coming from the autocrats' playbook. So they use the term
28:38colour revolution for what is a mass mobilization of civil society. And what worries me in that
28:44respect is that the last time I heard that used was in Kazakhstan, a country I lived in for many
28:48years, when the regime there was under pressure from a grassroots movement. And they said it was
28:53a colour revolution. And Moscow sent in thousands of troops to stabilize the regime. Of course, Belarus
28:58had to call in for similar help. And you wonder, are they sending signals that if things get to a
29:03point where the regime's rule looks unstable, that they might call in that kind of external help.
29:07Okay. And on that point, we can actually bring this conversation to a close. But if you are curious
29:12about the topic of EU enlargement, Euronews will dedicate a whole live event to the topic on the 4th
29:17of November. And President Woodridge will actually be there for that. So do tune in. Thank you so much
29:22though now to our panel, Donecó Beechan, Ilka Tuggar and Matthew Robinson. And thank you so much
29:26for watching. See you soon on Euronews.
29:37Hello there and welcome to Brussels, My Love, our weekly European politics show here on Euronews.
29:43I'm Maeve MacMahon and this weekend I'm joined by Donecó Beechan, the Irish author, Ilka Tuggar,
29:49the director of the Global Policy Centre at IU University, and Matthew Robinson from the Euro
29:54Gulf Information Centre. And together we're just taking a look back at the news of the week.
29:59And one that turned our heads takes us to France. Nicolas Sarkozy, known of course for presiding over
30:04the country for five years, has been sentenced to five years behind bars after a 12 year investigation.
30:11French judges ruled that the Libyan government of the late Muammar Gaddafi co-financed his election
30:16campaign back in 2007. Speaking to the press alongside his very famous wife, the singer Carly
30:21Pruny, Sarkozy denied all wrongdoing.
30:23I will assume my responsibilities. I will comply with the justice system. And if they absolutely
30:35want me to sleep in prison, I will sleep in prison. But with my head held high, because I'm innocent.
30:43No doubt I will have to go to the Court of Appeal with handcuffs. Those who hate me so much think they are
30:49humiliating me. What they have humiliated today is France.
30:58Matthew, is it France that's humiliated or Sarkozy?
31:02This is tough to see. I mean, justice must be blind, it must be equal, but it must also be proportionate.
31:09Otherwise it looks highly political. I don't think we can avoid the reality that this will be divisive
31:16for the country. Seeing a former president, a former resident in the Elyse Palace, served time
31:22behind bars. This is obviously in the shadow of the Le Pen ruling, as it relates to her being banned
31:29and running in elections there. I worry that this prosecution will do more to inflame the divisiveness
31:38of what is already a highly polarized political system in the National Assembly. Ultimately,
31:47I think the trial itself, while fair, I think the sentencing, the necessity to serve a sentence
31:57ahead of any appeal is tough. And I worry just how divisive it will be.
32:03It is divisive. I mean, we've seen the French press have been open arms the whole week. But look,
32:07it's not the first time. It feels like it's becoming the norm and not the exception. Remember
32:11Jacques Chirac as well?
32:12I was just thinking of Jacques Chirac and François Fillon, and there have been others. The prime
32:17ministers in Croatia, in Moldova, in Romania have been sentenced for corruption and bribery and whatnot.
32:24We've even seen in the UK recently, Nathan Gill, reform leader in Wales, found guilty,
32:31admitted to taking bribes from Russia for raising for essentially promoting Russian propaganda.
32:35And this comes to the core of the issue really is about trust in politics. And even though I share
32:40Matthew's reservations, I mean, France is divided. This will feed into that polarizations.
32:44I also think there is a potential positive in that it's important that justice is seen to be done.
32:49It's important that it's it's also that no one is above the law, because, of course, one of the
32:53kind of key points is often made in authoritarian regimes is that all these democracies are not really
32:58democratic, like it's all these elites who have all the power, and they're unaccountable.
33:02This kind of shows that there is some accountability for action.
33:04And that's what Transparency International said, they call it a very courageous outcome,
33:08harsh, but very courageous and sends a message to the rest of Europe.
33:11I cannot agree more justice should serve. But the thing is, it is never good for trust in
33:17politicians, political parties, institutions, these kind of very big and famous corruption cases.
33:24And in France, this is happening, as we have said, in a moment of a rise of the national rally.
33:31They are polling around 30 percent now, followed by the new popular front.
33:37And it's clearly in a period when politics are not necessarily so stable in France and for Europe.
33:44So now good news.
33:45We've talked at length about France here on Brussels, my love.
33:47But of course, Marie Le Pen, who hopes to be president one day, but also received a four
33:51year prison sentence and a 100,000 euro fine from Baselman. She's keeping a close eye,
33:55Matthew, on this case. She criticized the French justice system for it.
33:58Yeah, it's it's difficult, because on one hand, separation of power and judicial independence,
34:04some important. But I worry that this this adds to the climate that justice is seen as as
34:12as vengeful and as quasi even political in nature. There are there's there are fair arguments to
34:21say, while the the convictions as it relates to Le Pen or even Sarkozy are on the merits or perhaps
34:27a fair is the sentencing proportionate to the to the crime. I think that's a fair question. And
34:33certainly as it relates to the Le Pen verdict, I think it's done more politically to embolden
34:41her political movement in France than than anything else. It's never a good day when a former
34:47president, a former head of head of state has to serve time behind, regardless.
34:52It's highly embarrassing. But as you say, it's it's justice.
34:55It's justice. And, you know, otherwise you have a distrust in politics because Europe is in a very
35:00delicate, difficult position right now, because we are squeezed between, you know, disinformation
35:05activism to our east who are polluting social media and and and the minds of our youth, you know,
35:11trying to sow the seeds of distrust in democratic institutions, which only liberal democracies only
35:16make up 12.5 percent of the world's population. I mean, we are we are outliers. We are rare birds.
35:22And then, of course, we've got the pressure from the West with Donald Trump's MAGA movement.
35:26And of course, he has been to the forefront in arguing that every charge against him was political.
35:31Nothing was ever legitimate. So, you know, we have all that to contend with with our own
35:35democratic institutions as well. So it's a very difficult world we live in. We have a lot of
35:39challenges. He actually recently said that he was in exile in the in the four years that they didn't
35:45let him govern. Yes, that he won the election. He won the election and he was in exile. Actually,
35:50I want to flag one thing about France, because in France, there's even a more difficult situation with
35:55the public debt, because public debt pushes the government to go for for cuts in public services.
36:01These public services, the cuts create further frustration. And then we see all these very big
36:07corruption cases. So the citizens start to just like combine these two, you know, that they are
36:11cutting my services while they are just like getting getting ahead with these illegal financing.
36:18And you've you've seen leaders like whether it's Donald Trump or even President Netanyahu that,
36:23you know, that have faced domestic allegations that they've used it and flipped it to embolden
36:29their own domestic political standing. So that's a political reality we can't ignore.
36:33And on that point, we can bring this conversation to a close. Matthew, thank you so much to our panel,
36:39Daniel Duncobaechan. Ilke Todur and Matthew Robinson. Thank you so much for being with us. And thank you
36:44so much for watching. This is actually our final episode of Brussels, my love. After three years on
36:51air, we're sad to go, but we're very excited to come back soon with a new lineup of programming for you.
36:56So do stay tuned for that. In the meantime, a huge thank you to our stellar teams that are behind the
37:02scenes there for getting us on air. And of course, to you, our loyal audience for always tuning in.
37:07Thank you for your comments and feedback across the last three years from all across the world.
37:11We loved hearing from you. Take care and see you very soon here on Euronews.
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