- 5 months ago
Lucy Guo, the tech founder who unseated Taylor Swift as the youngest self-made female billionaire in the world, joins the show with practical advice and some controversial takes. She breaks down her winning strategy for raising funding, explains why we overestimate risk, and shares her biggest red flag when investing. Plus, she talks numbers on why buying a private jet might be the worst financial move you’ll ever make.
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00:00I would not invest in any company that has like an exit plan.
00:04Like, I think a lot of people in their pitch deck always include like, this is how we exit.
00:08And it's like, we get acquired, right?
00:10And when people ask me of an exit plan, I'm just like, why would I have an exit plan?
00:14Like, there is no exit plan.
00:16Because I think if you're already thinking about how to get acquired, like the company's dead.
00:23Hey everyone, I'm Dan Bova, writer and editor at entrepreneur.com.
00:27And welcome to How Success Happens, the show where we talk to people who aren't afraid to take big risks and ask big questions.
00:37So here's a question.
00:39Is a college education worth the price of admission?
00:44Today's guest might be able to answer that.
00:47Lucy Guo dropped out of Carnegie Mellon to pursue other interests.
00:53And it seems to have worked out for her.
00:54The 30-year-old was recently named on Forbes' youngest self-made female billionaire after her first business, Scale AI, was acquired by tech giant Meta.
01:08She is the founder and CEO of Passes, a creator-first platform that has attracted some huge investors with huge names like Shaquille O'Neal.
01:18She's also known for keeping a pretty packed work schedule.
01:23So let's not delay for another second.
01:26Welcome, Lucy.
01:28Thank you for having me.
01:29I'm excited to chat.
01:30Great, great.
01:31So my first question, did Taylor Swift send you a note when you unseated her as the world's youngest self-made female billionaire?
01:41I'm a huge Taylor fan.
01:44Like, she's probably the only person I've ever met in my life that I've, like, you know, fangirled over.
01:49Like, I was, like, shaking.
01:52So, no, she didn't send a note.
01:53And it was really sad because I would have loved the note.
01:58That's great.
01:59That's awesome.
01:59So I don't want to be too crass and talk about money, but I just have to ask.
02:05So what's, like, in practical terms, what's the difference between one day being a multimillionaire and then the next day being a billionaire?
02:13Like, what does that mean to your day-to-day?
02:16Honestly, it doesn't really change my day-to-day much.
02:19Like, I still wake up, I go to Barry's, I go to the office, and then I go home and sleep.
02:24I would say there's, like, maybe occasionally there's differences, right, where I don't feel as bad for maybe booking a private jet somewhere because it saves me time and that time is used working.
02:41I really, I do think time is money now more so in, like, those terms where it's, like, okay, like, the time I'm saving, like, what could I be doing to, like, reinvest that money back into, like, my business or, like, other investments, et cetera.
02:56But day-to-day in my life, it's very much the same.
03:00Like, I still ordered my UberXs today to, like, get around the city.
03:03Yes, yes, I'd love to dig into some of that a little bit later as we talk about what value is, what's worth spending a little bit more for, and what maybe isn't.
03:15But I'd love to start by just asking you about your decision, as we noted, to drop out of Carnegie Mellon, to just kind of go for it.
03:26Was that an easy decision to make, or was it a hard one to make?
03:30Yeah, I would say it was a super easy decision to make.
03:34At that point in time, I was already going to a lot of hackathons, spending time outside of campus, and I felt like I was learning more at these hackathons than I was in college.
03:42Because college is very focused on, like, you know, theoretical computer science versus at these hackathons, I was, like, actually building apps.
03:48I was learning the tools needed, right?
03:50I learned most of my product design work at these hackathons.
03:54I learned how to build iOS apps at these hackathons.
03:57And it really got me thinking in the startup mindset.
03:59And I generally think in life, when you optimize for learning, you can't go wrong.
04:03And I felt like I was going to learn more outside of college.
04:08But not only that, I felt I would gain access to some of the brightest minds in the industry, just because that was kind of what the Teal Fellowship was promising.
04:17And I do think that you end up being, like, the average of the people you hang around with most.
04:22And it was an opportunity to be able to be surrounded by young, ambitious people that all wanted to start companies and change the world.
04:29Do you think that people value what you just said enough?
04:33Like, you know, people are afraid to not be the smartest or one of the smartest people in the room.
04:40But what you just said was about surrounding yourself with brilliant people.
04:45Do you think people take enough stock in that?
04:47I think everyone should be surrounding themselves with brilliant people.
04:51You want to be the dumbest person in the room.
04:54And if you're not the dumbest person in the room, like, find a different room to hang out in.
04:57You're right.
04:58Now, it sounds like you were very confident.
05:02You know, was your family and friends telling you you were crazy?
05:07Or how did they react when you said you were going to do that?
05:09I would say absolutely.
05:11My peers thought I was absolutely crazy because Carnegie Mellon doesn't really have that, like, traditional startup culture that other universities might have.
05:19Like, I think it's very good at training you to essentially be, like, the best computer scientist around.
05:27And you go off and work at, like, Palantir, Dropbox, etc.
05:31Those are the cool companies back in, like, my day and age.
05:33Um, I think that my parents just, you know, they were immigrants from China and education had given them everything they had in life.
05:42Um, so they valued it for me.
05:44And to them, it was me throwing away an opportunity for a good life and throwing away their sacrifice to go fuck around.
05:51So, um, they weren't very happy with me either.
05:54Are they happy now?
05:56I would say they're happy now.
05:58Yeah.
05:59That's good.
06:00Um, so what is your, um, what's your advice, uh, for people who are, you know, about to make a big decision, maybe make, take a big bet on themselves.
06:14They're feeling a little uneasy and maybe they're not like, you know, there are voices telling them, hey, I don't think this is a good idea.
06:20Like, how do you push through the kind of negativity, uh, for lack of a better word, and just go for it?
06:28Um, yeah, I mean, I think in general people, um, what's the right way to put it?
06:35I think they over-index on the risk.
06:37Like, they think that things are riskier than they actually are.
06:40Um, at the end of the day, you're not really losing much, right?
06:42Like, dropping out of college, you can always go back to college.
06:44Leaving that job, you may lose, like, a few years or, like, money.
06:49But I think that's not the end of the world, um, versus, like, hopefully whatever you're pursuing next is going to give you the knowledge needed to, um, really advance your career.
07:01Like, worst case scenario, you gain a bunch of knowledge.
07:04Best case scenario, it's, like, life-changing money.
07:06Yeah, right.
07:07So, um, you seem like, uh, you're obviously a very, uh, driven person.
07:13Were you always this way?
07:15Were you like this as a kid?
07:16You know, weirdly enough, I think so, but, like, not necessarily for, um, like, the motivation of wanting to change the world.
07:23There was something to, like, being, I was always competitive.
07:27So, um, I think this, like, started off when I was even, you know, selling Pokemon cards on the playground or, like, building bots to, like, make money on Neopets.
07:36Like, I wasn't really using that money to invest in stocks, for example, at that age.
07:40Like, I was specifically building bots to get items on Neopets to sell and make money so I could buy better pets on Neopets.
07:47Okay.
07:47And, like, buy other things I wanted, like, skateboards, et cetera.
07:50Um, because I always wanted to, like, be the best at everything.
07:53And that included, like, owning the rarest pets on Neopets.
07:57Yeah.
07:58And I think that competitive nature drove me to, like, really where I am today.
08:06Um, I also think I just, like, really love building products.
08:08I think, like, I don't know if it's, like, just competitiveness.
08:13Like, oh, cool.
08:13I built, like, the best arcade website.
08:15I built the best internet marketing tool.
08:16But it's really cool for me to see, like, people use my, like, the apps I build, right?
08:23Like, I would build random apps on weekends for fun and then just launch them on Product Hunt.
08:29And then they would go viral and get millions of users.
08:31And just, like, seeing people out in the wild use it was just very cool.
08:35Yeah.
08:36Oh, that's cool.
08:36Well, I was just going to ask you.
08:38I mean, besides obvious monetary rewards, like, what do you get out of all this?
08:45Like, what drives you to keep wanting to do more?
08:48You know, some people would say, hey, you've made a pretty good living.
08:53You can retire and do nothing for the rest of your life.
08:56So, like, what makes you want to keep doing stuff?
09:00Yeah.
09:00I think I just want to continue to impact the world.
09:03Like, with, you know, Pastis right now, I'm friends with our creators.
09:06And they tell me constantly how their lives have been changed, how they've been able to buy a house,
09:11pay off student loans, like, pursue their music career, et cetera.
09:13I think at the end of the day, like, when you are able to make money, you can drive impact and the causes you care about.
09:20Because theoretically, like, let's say I was, like, making tens of millions of dollars selling socks, right?
09:25Like, I might not necessarily be passionate about socks, but maybe I'm really passionate about education.
09:31And I could use that money and, like, start a nonprofit or donate it to somewhere where they're democratizing education across the world.
09:38But I think that, like, in general, money drives the world and money drives impact.
09:43So, I keep doing what I do to continue driving impact.
09:47That's great.
09:48Can you explain a little bit more?
09:51I just sort of, like, brushed on what Passes is.
09:54But can you explain what it is and how it's different from other platforms?
09:58Yeah, so at Passes, we're building infrastructure to help creators really build their businesses and their brand, which is pretty different than other platforms in that there are no other platforms that are doing this.
10:10This is everything from, you know, like, we're giving them health benefits.
10:13So, they don't have to worry about that because a lot of people worry about health insurance when they, you know, leave their jobs to really give them data and analytics, like, AI agents to help A-B test their posts and, like, figure out, like, how much, like, pieces of content should cost.
10:30Stuff that, like, maybe managers do, but they take 10% to 20% of your earnings in order to do it.
10:34But, like, we're, like, starting to look into building fintech tools as well because we, like, care about the long-term generational wealth, like, thus far.
10:45It's been more, like, white glove customer service in that sense where, you know, we can, like, show them the right directions or, like, introduce them to, like, the right wealth managers.
10:54Like, could we do that in-house?
10:56Like, absolutely.
10:57So, how does it work?
10:58Like, how does – is it anyone?
11:01One, I've got a YouTube channel and I come to you and I say I want to be bigger than Mr. Beast or, like, how does it all work?
11:11Yeah.
11:12So, you just signed up and it's – we have our self-serve product and there's a bunch of different features people use in different ways.
11:20So, when you land on, like, my page, for example, the first things that I'm selling are, like, you know, one-on-one video calls, cameo requests, merchandise, et cetera.
11:28Some people use it for live streams.
11:31Some people use it for messaging.
11:33Some people use it to, like, manage their Discord channels because Discord has been, like, a very popular form of community.
11:39So, now they can earn money on their Discord channels.
11:43We're continuously building different revenue streams for creators to be able to monetize because every creator, like, has, like, a best way of monetization, I'd say.
11:53You – I mean, you explain it so well and it sounds like such a great idea and it is such a great idea.
12:01What's your approach when you are – when you're pitching to investors?
12:06I mean, you seem pretty convincing.
12:09What's your advice to people who are – got their first idea or they're going into their first pitch meeting?
12:16My advice is actually very different for raising money.
12:22So, I think when you're raising money, you should always only be raising when you don't need to raise or at least act like you don't need the money because that's when investors want to come to you, right?
12:31So, my piece of advice there is if you're starting out, you have no metrics whatsoever, go approach investors, but, like, from an advice standpoint.
12:40Like, don't ask for money.
12:41Just say, like, hey, like, I really admire you because X, Y, and Z.
12:44You seem domain knowledgeable in what I'm building.
12:47I'd love to grab a coffee and get some advice on an idea I'm having.
12:51And then you ask for advice.
12:52You talk about yourself.
12:53And at that stage, they're really betting on you as a person.
12:55And if they want to invest in you because they think you're impressive, they're going to offer themselves.
13:02And when a round is preempted, it becomes, like, the hottest thing in town, I guess.
13:07For my Series A, so we did a pretty large Series A earlier, our numbers were just, like, phenomenal, and I knew that.
13:16So, I just sent out an investor update, and immediately everyone started inbounding and asking, like, oh, are you raising?
13:23Like, let's chat, blah, blah, blah, because they just wanted to preempt it.
13:26And when I got my first term sheet, and it was a preempt, I was able to go to everyone and say, like, hey, I wasn't fundraising, but, like, we got preempted.
13:33And then we became the hottest ticket in town.
13:35So, there's strategies, but the main strategy is, like, act like you don't need the money, and they'll come to you.
13:44Got it.
13:45That's great.
13:46I love that.
13:47But let's talk a little bit about, so, scale AI people.
13:54What do you say to the people out there, maybe a little older people?
13:58People are terrified that AI is coming for their jobs and about to put us human beings out of business.
14:05What do you say to people who feel that way?
14:08Yeah, I mean, I think AI is going to be our best co-pilot.
14:11They're going to help us be better and more efficient at our jobs.
14:15And at the end of the day, human traits are things that, like, AI can't really replicate or, like, human relationships.
14:20So, for example, like, AI might be able to do a lot of outbound for creators.
14:26Like, you know, find brands, reach out to brands, et cetera.
14:28But at the end of the day, there's a relationship built between, like, the creator and the brand.
14:32And, like, someone needs to sign a contract.
14:33AI is not signing the contract for you.
14:35So, and I think that over time, these, like, innate human qualities are going to become, like, human-only qualities, like being good at sales, for example.
14:48And being able to build relationships, understand people, like human empathy, that's just going to become a more necessary skill and a job for us.
14:56And I think new jobs are going to appear that we might not necessarily know need to exist but will exist in the future.
15:02Like, prompt engineering is already, like, you know, a very hot job at the moment.
15:06And that was not a job years ago.
15:08Right, right, right.
15:09Yeah, of course.
15:10You just touched on something I wanted to ask about.
15:13You know, some of the entrepreneurs that I've met, you know, they have great ideas but they're also very introverted.
15:21They are not good salespeople.
15:24What do you advise to people like that that maybe aren't so great at walking into a pitch meeting and having, you know, jaws hit the ground about their great idea because they can barely put a sentence together?
15:37I would say go to, like, executive coaching class or get a co-founder that is great at sales because at the end of the day, you're not just selling, like, like, you have to sell everyone.
15:49You have to sell to your employees.
15:50Like, you have to sell to people to hire them.
15:52You have to sell your product.
15:53You have to sell investors, et cetera.
15:55And if you can't do that sales, like, you need to have that co-founder and that co-founder needs to be able to do sales or go to an executive, like, coaching class and learn how to get good at sales.
16:07And how do you, with your team or teams, how do you, you know, describe your leadership style?
16:14Like, how do you keep everyone on the same page?
16:17How do you keep everyone moving forward?
16:19Are you in the nitty-gritty of everything or do you kind of, like, give them the ball and watch them run?
16:24And how does it work with you?
16:27Yeah, so I ask that all my leadership is also, like, they do IC work because I really do believe that as a leader, you cannot judge how good your team is unless you do the job yourself, right?
16:38Like, how do you know that, like, that customer support person that you hired is doing a good job with their answers, is responding on, like, quickly enough, et cetera, if you aren't doing it yourself?
16:51Like, how are you supposed to know someone's a good designer unless you're a great designer yourself?
16:54So I would say I'm definitely in a nitty-gritty and I try to, like, do the IC work in every single function along with asking my team to do it as well to be able to really judge if their team is doing well.
17:08We have, like, literally a product quiz that goes out every single month and we require everyone in the company, including managers, to take this product quiz so that when creators have a question, whoever is able to answer first, answers first.
17:23Like, I don't like things kicking down the line of, like, management layers because that's just not the fastest way to get things done.
17:31So have you had any mentors along the way to where you are now that made a, you know, kind of significant difference in how you approach things or, you know, just any aspect of your career?
17:45Yeah, I mean, I've had amazing people that I've always asked for advice from.
17:51Honestly, VCs, where I would, you know, map out pros and cons.
17:56I remember, like, a big one was leaving Snap to go to YC and really just, you know, asking every single person for feedback, advice.
18:05I will say most of them told me to stay at Snap, but, like, when I didn't, they were still there for the journey for me.
18:15That's great.
18:16Well, let's talk a little bit about your day-to-day because, you know, you've talked about this and it's, you know, you're not a slacker, Lucy.
18:27Can you describe a day just, like, you know, when you get up to when you kind of, like, snap the laptop shut for the day?
18:39Oh, snap the laptop shut is kind of different.
18:41Okay, yeah.
18:41So I would say I probably get up at, like, 5.45 a.m.-ish and then quickly pack.
18:48I go to Barry's and then I'll do two Barry's classes in a row.
18:52I'm getting lazy, though.
18:53I used to do three.
18:53Okay, so I could do two Barry's classes in a row and then I pretty much go, like, straight from Barry's to the office.
19:00And then my day in the office is very, like, it's not always consistently the same.
19:09But I think, like, what generally is consistent is I meet with the design product team because I want to see, like, how far along we are on building our features.
19:18And then I want to catch early UI UX mistakes.
19:21Like, the worst thing that can happen is, you know, you have a product idea.
19:24The designer takes a month or two months to design it and it's nothing like what you want, right?
19:29So I stay close to that team.
19:32And then I stay close with, like, you know, our marketing socials team and our sales team because obviously those are, like, the GMV revenue drivers.
19:41So working on strategy there on just, you know, ways we can automate the process more, how close we are to, like, getting a contract signed, et cetera.
19:53Other than that, it can really vary.
19:56So, for example, today was, like, a big podcast day where I filmed with you, Nasdaq, and one other person.
20:04Like, Nasdaq's really more a little interview.
20:06But, yeah, it's really never the same.
20:11So I'm exhausted just listening to that.
20:15What is your kind of secret for staying energized for all of that?
20:21I think that working out is actually a really big part of it, to be honest.
20:26It keeps me disciplined and it adds an extra cup of coffee.
20:30Like, it feels like an extra cup of coffee in a day.
20:34And I, like, I hate that this is, like, such an answer because it's not really advice, right?
20:42But my parents just never really slept.
20:45I'm pretty sure I had that gene where you don't need to sleep that much.
20:48Like, my parents probably sleep at, like, 1 a.m. and wake up at, like, 5, 6 a.m. daily.
20:53I saw them do that, like, my entire life.
20:56So they, yeah, I kind of just learned from them.
21:00Wow.
21:01You should get some sleep.
21:03I think some sleep would be good.
21:04You know, I do get sleep.
21:06I would say, like, last night I got six hours, maybe five and a half.
21:11Wow.
21:12Like, I try to shoot for six hours a day.
21:14Like, that is, like, my ideal scenario.
21:16Okay.
21:16That's good.
21:17So is there anything that maybe people dream of, oh, one day I'm going to have this, you know, shiny object that maybe you've experienced and you're like, let me save you some time and money.
21:29It's not worth it.
21:31I mean, I think having it and, like, renting it is kind of different.
21:37But I think, okay, I would say, like, I think my first answer is probably nice clothes.
21:49I don't actually think it changes.
21:53I think it changes people's perception.
21:58I mean, it looks good.
21:58It looks good.
21:59Like, that's my opinion on things.
22:00I think my next thing is, at least for me, when I do the math, like, you should just charter.
22:08Like, having a private jet actually doesn't make sense.
22:11And I've ran the numbers in every single way possible.
22:14And you just, like, I get, like, I would have actually spent more money and been okay losing money on a PJ knowing that I, like, it was my own plane.
22:24Except then I realized your plane is out of service, like, a decent amount of two months a year.
22:30And at that point, you're ordering anyways.
22:32It was like, okay, so you don't even get your own plane anyways.
22:35And I would, like, I've been on enough flights where, like, the plane just, like, goes out of service that I'm like, no.
22:43Like, we, it's actually better the charter.
22:47That's great.
22:47I spoke with somebody recently who did get a PJ and told me confidentially, I'm going to be paying for this thing for the rest of my life.
23:02So, you know, I think that's good advice.
23:06All right.
23:06So I'm not going to get a private jet.
23:08Yeah.
23:08Even with the 100% bonus appreciation that you can now do, it's still, like, you will still lose money versus chartering.
23:14We always ask people for their business hot take, the thing that they cannot stand, that they have to experience over and over, either in the workplace or in pitch meetings or whatever.
23:27Do you have one?
23:32Like, things I hate about running a business or, like, just what?
23:35Just something that bugs the shit out of you.
23:38That it could be as little as easy as someone sticking a meeting on your calendar that you didn't, like, ask for, or it could be bigger.
23:49Some people say, when someone's pitching me and they have terrible breath.
23:52So it's like, is there anything that you're just like, ugh, I hate this?
23:57Oh, yeah.
23:58I would say, like, I think that I really hate meetings.
24:02Like, I think all meetings should be, like, 30 minutes, like, maximum.
24:06You can do things mostly async.
24:08And then if we're talking about just pitching, this is actually a really hot take, I think.
24:13But I would not invest in any company that has, like, an exit plan.
24:18Like, I think a lot of people in their pitch deck always include, like, this is how we exit.
24:22And it's like, we get acquired, right?
24:24And when people ask me of an exit plan, I'm just like, why would I have an exit plan?
24:30Like, there is no exit plan.
24:31Because I think if you're already thinking about how to get acquired, like, the company's dead.
24:36That's awesome.
24:36I love that.
24:37That's great.
24:40Okay.
24:40So we get reader questions or listener questions.
24:44I keep saying reader, but listeners on podcast.
24:47Is this live?
24:48No, no, no, no, no, no, no.
24:50Oh, I'm so confused.
24:52Sorry.
24:52Yeah, no, we go on social media and say, hey, we're talking to Lucy.
24:58Anyone have a question?
24:59So someone popped in a question.
25:02How do you celebrate a win?
25:05This is from Ty asked that.
25:10I mean, this is strange, but I don't really celebrate.
25:15Yeah.
25:17I'm not like, okay, yay, we won.
25:19I'm like, now let's go throw a party or, like, go eat dinner.
25:23Like, yeah, just move on to the next.
25:28All right.
25:28That's great.
25:30And now in the interest of time, we're going to slide right into the speed round.
25:35Uh, so I'll ask you a couple of quick questions.
25:37So the first one is, what is a habit that you are happy to have and one that you wish that you could ditch?
25:46I mean, that habit that I'm very happy to have is just Barry's boot camp.
25:49Again, um, really they should give me some equity in a company.
25:52I don't actually own any and I don't get referral fees, but, um, it just keeps me energized in day.
25:59I think that, like, as a founder, you can go a little crazy when you're putting in a bunch of effort into a project and you're not necessarily seeing the results or output.
26:07Um, but with working out, it's just so consistent, right?
26:10Like the output you get is the input you put in.
26:13Um, so that, and then what's the other question?
26:16Uh, what's, what's a habit that you wish you could ditch?
26:19What's a habit I wish I could ditch?
26:23Um, I don't really have bad habits, to be quite honest.
26:30We'll take it.
26:31Yeah, I, I'm thinking right now.
26:34Um, I guess, like, how I wish I would eat healthier.
26:43Like, I don't know if that makes sense.
26:45So, like, I, I haven't, like, I wish I could ditch is just like, oh, I haven't, I wish I could ditch is like, so when I'm like, sitting down and bored, I'll just like eat, even if I'm not hungry, I'll eat nonstop.
26:56Um, so, and I don't eat healthy foods either.
27:00And that sounds like, I need to just like, I wish I could just like focus.
27:03Yeah.
27:03Like if I'm on my laptop, just like working nonstop, I'll, I'll just eat.
27:06Cause I'm like, well, okay.
27:07Like, I'm just like sitting here and like, I'm on my laptop, like might as well just be multitasking with food also.
27:14What's your, uh, what's your go-to snack?
27:18Uh, my go-to snack would probably be these like truffle chips from Taurus.
27:25Um, they're delicious.
27:26And for those, for those who don't know what Barry's bootcamp is, it is a incredibly intense, uh, workout.
27:35And the fact that you do two of them back to back and used to do three of them back to back is just, I barely made it out alive at one.
27:44So that's pretty.
27:45I will say, I think like my determination is quite impressive.
27:48Like there was a worldwide challenge that was going on and I want to get first place.
27:53So I remember on the last day of this challenge, I did seven classes in a row to make sure that my team won first.
28:01That is dedication.
28:03Uh, what is something that most people love that you secretly can't stand?
28:10I don't want to say secretly can't stand, but cause I like, I just don't care.
28:15But, um, I think that like, I don't spend any time really like watching movies, TV shows, scrolling, TikTok, et cetera.
28:22Um, and I do think that that's why I have like so much time in my day.
28:25Um, but yeah, I mean like it just, it's not in my schedule.
28:31Uh, and then, uh, as a social media, uh, person, uh, what is something that the algorithm keeps feeding you that you wish would stop?
28:42Oh my God. Um, these like Chinese dramas, um, it's like ridiculous.
28:51And the yearly subscription to these Chinese drama, like TV apps, which are like the short clips are, it's like $400 a year for like the worst cheesy crap ever.
29:02And I'm like, I get it. I'm Asian, but like, and they're like, it just seems like cheesy love stories where like someone has a secret identity and then like the identity is revealed.
29:13And like some other girl is jealous of the girl and like the drama happens. I'm like, why? They're all the same script.
29:21Well, I think you should start. I think you should start a competitor. You could, you could beat it, beat it at its own game. What do you say?
29:28Honestly, they're probably making a lot of money at those prices. They need to only need a few people addicted.
29:34Right. Right. Awesome. Awesome. Well, Lucy, you are an incredibly busy person and incredibly inspiring person.
29:41I'm sure people listening to this are all fired up. So thank you so much for talking to us. How, how best can people kind of keep up with what you're up to?
29:51Um, just go on my Instagram. It's just go for it, go for it, but go. And, uh, I story stuff in like real time, basically. So you'll be very kept up.
30:02Excellent. Excellent. Well, I, I really do appreciate your time and, uh, just amazed by what you've accomplished and, and can't wait to see what you do next. This is very cool.
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