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00:00Economic International Trade Commission Economic International Arbitration Commission and so we
00:18have in this team here started a new initiative in trying to be at the forefront of the transformative
00:26peace building initiative promoting transformative peace at the grassroots level particularly in the
00:37northeast and the northwest of Nigeria this is actually a new initiative we have started we have
00:43seen that so far the approach of the government in trying to tackle the insurgency and insecurity
00:51in the northwest and in the northern part of Nigeria has not yielded a lot of fruit and so in partnership
00:56with UNHCR website is the initiative of peace building training community leaders as well as legal
01:05officers and non-profit organizations to see how they can come together to brocade peace within the
01:13communities the last the first training we did was in Bainway state and after that we have also the same
01:20partnership with UNHCR as well as older key stakeholders continued to promote arbitration and ADR like you
01:29know arbitration and ADR is a is a non-traditional disability mechanism outside the court system that
01:37we are all familiar with and we believe that if we are able to promote it working in partnership with the
01:47Guardian newspaper and the Guardian TV we will be able to ensure that more Nigerians have access to justice because
01:55this is one major area of challenge that we we face currently in the country there's a national policy of arbitration that the federal government has just signed into
02:07law is a policy it has persuasive and past but we also believe that if the policy as it is is implemented
02:16starting with the government we will see definitely we definitely see some changes positive changes in India in the arbitration landscape
02:24particularly now that we have the new arbitration that is a darling of not only Nigeria's but darling of international arbitrators and expert because there are a lot of new provisions and even countries
02:37that have been in the forfeit are not yet at that point but you know it is not the the laws that is as important as the people because it is the implementation and that is where sometimes we run into the roadblocks
02:52Okay I have a few questions I mean I know maybe other problems I'm hoping that my questions will probably cover some more yeah questions first I mean the fact that dispute resolution and when it comes to contracts we've seen that happen in India a lot of times abuse of processes and when I get involved in foreign litigation and
03:21when it comes to not also respecting contracts so first I believe this can be addressed even from the outset when contracts are being signed in order to prevent I mean issues with jurisdiction and issues with obeying the terms of the contracts I mean that eventually needs to dispute
03:44I mean if you also I mean making a case to ensure that arbitration I mean starts not just when there is a crisis but how do also prevent it by getting involved from the process
03:57from the beginning that's number one I have just like four places
04:01Okay
04:02Number one
04:03Then number two I talked about Nigeria has quite a number of issues abroad I mean we see many of them when it comes to even between the federal government
04:13and some of these contracts signed and they are not obeying some of those contracts or the terms of the contracts we see that happening a lot of times I mean which has also led to embarrassment for the company we saw that with the PR
04:27I do not know
04:28There are several other cases like that which have not even come up so how do we as a nation prevent this kind of international embarrassment to the point that people also think that as much as we are invited to the government
04:42and telling people about the use of doing business in Nigeria these actions contradict that position on building business and how do we ensure that investors come into the country and also respect laws
04:56and how do we ensure that these are the conditions to see what is even happening between Dangote and Benghazi and Co
05:03that's even fresh it's it goes beyond Nigeria because it's also an international issue because of where Dangote is positioned
05:11and also our business can also begin to perceive the country so that's number two
05:17number three I think these two questions are actually very important for the fact that you mentioned you also working in the North East and the Middle East I know
05:28so I would like to understand what's your position on negotiation with bandits
05:34yeah it's a very important subject
05:37it is
05:38it is
05:39because you are working in that region and I mean do bandits actually repent and how do you negotiate with them
05:46we've seen cases now whereby bandits are coming back to stage and begin to renegotiate terms
05:53I mean these are typical oliver trees in you always want more
05:58and it's not just about the money it's also about territory it's also about the people
06:03so where do we find the balance it's a very tough question hopefully you're able to wait through that
06:09and if you don't want to comment on it I will understand but I would love to hear your position as an expert
06:15the last piece which is also a very touching one is the issue of where do you draw the line between
06:24mediation arbitration and people again
06:27I know that with a new regime
06:30Chief the Honourable at Nigeria and Minister for Justice have began to do
06:36has taken certain positive steps to try to address this issue
06:40and some of the steps that I know he's taking is to set up a committee
06:44to review BTI's and also now begin to look at the kind of contracts that Nigeria signed
06:55you know getting the experts involved from the very beginning
06:58and I know that he has put together a very good team of senior lawyers and arbitrators to help him in that area
07:05so they have started on the right path then they have been to look at reviewing you know from the contract
07:11from the onset of drafting because that's where the issue starts from
07:15it's not where you already have an arbitration agreement
07:17it's when you are drafting the contracts what kind of arbitration agreements or
07:22dispensation agreements have you included in the contract
07:25is it watertight is it an arbitration agreement that takes into consideration a lot of factors on both sides
07:33and that is not one you know one sided
07:36that they are doing something about it and I know that in the next one year plus we will begin to see the dividends
07:42of what they are doing and that is why now they don't sign you don't get them signing contracts
07:47the contract isn't like that now before the contract is signed it has to go to the Ministry of Justice
07:52you know what is in favour of the country so that's that and then the issue of attracting
07:57that will come up that will fall on the other side which will definitely cause us to raise our eyebrows
08:03but I think that the judiciary are on the right track and what the judiciary need is more encouragement from us
08:11from us as legal practitioners and also from you as the media to be able to say okay this is what we think
08:20they should do now this is an area they need to strengthen to get Nigeria to come up to up to speed
08:27for instance if you're an ID matter we all know what happened in that matter
08:31like you said why that matter went south was because from the very beginning of drafting the contract
08:36the officials representing Nigeria did not pay attention to details they did not take into
08:43constitution the interest of the country and they did not go further to look at okay
08:48now there's a suit against us there's an arbitral matter against us but could we have also counter claimed
08:55against with our party rather than just sit down and wait because I think where the matter went against us
09:02against against us in the first instance that was because we didn't step in at the right time
09:06once you have an arbitration matter and a party rise to an institute to appoint an arbitral for you
09:13don't sit down and wait appear before the arbitral tribunal and state your case
09:20because once you have set an arbitral agreement it's the finality you cannot come out of it
09:24you cannot you literally you know change the terms of the agreement because it says parts to
09:30savanta parties are bound by the agreement definitely one party has taken steps you know
09:35and it's not a disadvantage by the reason of signing onto that agreement so it is the interest of the
09:40other parties to show up so this is one area that I think the Nigeria government didn't do well
09:44with the pay and ID matter but I know that for sure now they have begun to correct that area so once they
09:50know there's an arbitral matter against them the federal government definitely will put together that team
09:55to represent the government negotiation with bandits so we have to look at it again critically
10:03and to ask ourselves the question has the various interventions has it given us the desired results
10:11and when we talk about negotiating with bandits are we talking about negotiating with the bandits the ones
10:17I think bandit should probably should be categorized I have that feeling they should actually be categorized
10:22there are some there are some
10:24bandit is a mild word and I think it's it's also a media creation in order to
10:32federal government I mean apologies federal government propaganda to manage this situation
10:37okay I think these are terrorism once you take hands against the states they are terrorist activities or actions
10:46so I think that word should be bandit I mean to the terrorists okay so the only reason why I said that
10:52I mean like I said earlier was the fact that I mean the abused have not received justice they've not been
11:00very treated the people who are victims they are the victims so how do we so where does justice come in when
11:07the victims are still in IVP they are displaced yes and yet we are having a conversation with the people that
11:14perpetuates about it so I mean that's why I'm asking since it doesn't work within the North East region
11:20what's your position on this okay so first of all let me clarify that I'm not an expert in this area because you did say earlier
11:27you did say earlier that I'm an expert I'm not actually I'm a lawyer by training and professional okay
11:33but given that we have worked in the North East and Northwest for a while not just in the area of peace
11:41peace building and conflict resolution but particularly more in the area of alternative
11:46issues exploring mediation you know in resolving disputes and resolving disputes because now like you talked about
11:53the IDPs we have a lot of IDPs and then when IDPs pool are displaced they become IDPs and then definitely
11:59there's bound to be dispute between them and the original indigens of the states or in the area of
12:04community where they are settled so in those regards they needed assistance to ensure that they have access to
12:09justice a lot of things were happening in those areas well having said that what we look at I think that this issue
12:15of either bandits or terrorists is an issue that the government needs to also step back and first of all
12:22let's start talking about tracing the origin because I still feel that what we are dealing with the symptoms
12:29what is the origin of this this of this issue how did it get to where it has gotten to now because I'm not
12:37I'm not even the bandits I would say or the terrorists I would say now I they're not so much of my fear
12:43or worry now my worry now is the younger ones the out of school children that they are recruiting now
12:50those are the that's where my worry is and those ones are going to be more brutal because a lot of them
12:55have lost their family members they don't have any emotional feelings so definitely you know what happens
13:00so there is a lot of issues with this insecurity in Nigeria let me put it like that and then we have to look at
13:09there are so many actors you are talking about terrorists but for me I'm not really major actors
13:14who are the sponsors the sponsor what is they really have sponsors who had sponsors and if you go back
13:21I mean you are in the media space you know all of this so there's nothing new I'm going to sit here
13:25to you know talk about that you do not will you're not aware of but all I will say is that there needs to be
13:33several approaches to dealing with this issue outside you know the conventional way we see them approaching
13:40that there needs to be several approaches and for me the approach to start from how do we reintegrate the
13:46out of school children how do we integrate those people that are affected by the onslaught of banditry
13:53or terrorism or whatever you're talking about how do we get them to see things differently
13:58how do we reintegrate them because if you don't do that Nigeria will just be fighting this war for the
14:03next 50 years 100 years and it will never come to an end so for me we need to go back to the drawing board
14:11and look at all the critical stakeholders and the actors involved in this issue not just focus on one side of
14:19the bandits or the terrorists or whatever you call them but also who are the sponsors because the sponsors
14:25have different layers where do they come in then who are the enablers but also enablers as well
14:33so it's an entire complex situation that we are in and the only thing that can get us close to trying to resolve
14:45it is for the government and for every Nigerian to be ready to make the necessary steps or decisions to find a way to resolve this issue
15:00so the negotiating with bandits for me is not going to resolve it for some people it may be a good step
15:07but I think that the issues we are dealing with is more than just negotiating
15:12because if you negotiate with ones you know now new ones will spring up
15:16so how many are you going to negotiate with what about the young ones that are already waiting to take over
15:22so it is a complex situation and in this hybrid side of intervention to be able to you know step in
15:37and to a reasonable extent curtail what is going on right now
15:43right now
16:02you
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